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View Full Version : Trump once again fails on his promises



garhkal
09-14-2017, 03:30 AM
Well, looks like Trump showed he's as stupid as the leftists have said.. Believing the lies of the Dems in "just give us amnesty for the 800000 Daca kids, and we will give you better border security"..
What a turd i feel like, voting for this lying sack of shit he's turned out to be..

meatbringer
09-15-2017, 12:54 AM
Well, looks like Trump showed he's as stupid as the leftists have said.. Believing the lies of the Dems in "just give us amnesty for the 800000 Daca kids, and we will give you better border security"..
What a turd i feel like, voting for this lying sack of shit he's turned out to be..

It's for the best. I'm against illegal immigration, but the DACA kids were brought here as children and are now part of the country, even contributing to the economy more than most people realize. Going to school, paying tuition, most are employed, they pay taxes, bring diversity to the workforce, consumers that help the economy through demand/production, and most of all, none of them are convicted criminals like Sessions said. It's a good thing.

Better border security? Time will tell. Guess we'll just have to see what they come up with. Anything is better than an impractical wall that Mexico was never going to pay for in the first place. They will just have to come up with something else to chant at Trump rallies, I guess. Maybe not; they still chant "Lock her up!" even though he let her off the hook the day after he was elected. Lol

garhkal
09-15-2017, 04:29 AM
It's for the best. I'm against illegal immigration, but the DACA kids were brought here as children and are now part of the country, even contributing to the economy more than most people realize. Going to school, paying tuition, most are employed, they pay taxes, bring diversity to the workforce, consumers that help the economy through demand/production, and most of all, none of them are convicted criminals like Sessions said. It's a good thing.

SO just cause they are kids, the laws should be ignored? By that logic all those 11-14 yr olds we've sent to jail for murder/rape etc, should be let out and given amnesty..
OR do those kids not count?



Better border security? Time will tell. Guess we'll just have to see what they come up with. Anything is better than an impractical wall that Mexico was never going to pay for in the first place. They will just have to come up with something else to chant at Trump rallies, I guess. Maybe not; they still chant "Lock her up!" even though he let her off the hook the day after he was elected. Lol

And exactly what would be 'better' than a wall?? A death field?

meatbringer
09-15-2017, 05:10 AM
SO just cause they are kids, the laws should be ignored? By that logic all those 11-14 yr olds we've sent to jail for murder/rape etc, should be let out and given amnesty..
OR do those kids not count?



And exactly what would be 'better' than a wall?? A death field?

Oh boy, here we go with the CAPS, etc. Sorry for the logical explanation - let me break it down for you. I simply stated a fact: they were brought over here as children with no real say in the matter. Now that they have grown up in this country, they have become an asset to our economy as a whole. Everything I stated about them is true. They go to school, pay taxes, don't commit crimes, etc. Like I previously stated, I am against illegal immigration, but these were children that were brought here and grew to become contributing members of our society. These are the immigrants that we want to stay. Hell, even Paul Ryan agrees. 11-14 year olds committing rape, etc? Dude, you do realize that you are not eligible for DACA if you committed a serious offense, right? So, if/when this individual is convicted (innocent until proven guilty), then they will lose DACA rights and be deported. I know what you are referring to, but as of right now no one has been convicted. Take a deep breath... Jesus.

Many things would be better than a wall. Intelligent and practical immigration reform, for starters.

Mjölnir
09-15-2017, 10:00 AM
The issue with the DACA eligible people is (as was said) they came here as minor children. In a large portion of the cases, they have no knowledge of their home nation. Yes, they came here illegally ... with a parent or family member who brought them. Yes, they are illegal, but note that in our system we have charged people as accomplices to bank robbery because they were riding in the getaway car ... would you charge a 5 or 6 year old kid as an accomplice who was in a child-seat in the getaway car? Probably not ... I wouldn't.

What DACA failed to do was provide a path to permanent residency or citizenship that could make them legal. It was a temporary fix that has been in place for five years. I can agree that illegal immigration is bad / violation of law etc. I don't think throwing someone in this category out of the country outright is the right thing to do either, DACA requires them to register, not violate serious crimes and be what you or I would call "productive members of society". This is an area where I think a compromise on the situation is warranted either via a path to citizenship in line with the normal process or something to that effect.

In the first 8 months of the Trump Administration, what POTUS did with DACA is one of the few things I can say he got right. Revoking DACA (because it does seem like an unconstitutional action) but giving a 6 month grace period puts the issue where it belongs ... with the Congress to provide a legislative solution that can be codified in law. It also gives POTUS a bargaining chip with Democrats and Republicans. Politically it could be good or bad, Congress can either:

1. Propose legislation and put it to a vote. This will put members on record with where they stand which could work out poorly for some. Immigration reform is an ugly baby that no one in Congress really wants to address.

2. Do nothing, in which case they would likely start getting deported (which most people don't want); which provides a talking point for everyone that we are either getting rid of illegals, or that the Dem's did nothing to try to keep them here. This would make POTUS the 'bad guy', which he is clearly okay with being.

Mjölnir
09-15-2017, 10:03 AM
The issue with the DACA eligible people is (as was said) they came here as minor children. In a large portion of the cases, they have no knowledge of their home nation. Yes, they came here illegally ... with a parent or family member who brought them. Yes, they are illegal, but note that in our system we have charged people as accomplices to bank robbery because they were riding in the getaway car ... would you charge a 5 or 6 year old kid as an accomplice who was in a child-seat in the getaway car? Probably not ... I wouldn't.

What DACA failed to do was provide a path to permanent residency or citizenship that could make them legal. It was a temporary fix that has been in place for five years. I can agree that illegal immigration is bad / violation of law etc. I don't think throwing someone in this category out of the country outright is the right thing to do either, DACA requires them to register, not violate serious crimes and be what you or I would call "productive members of society". This is an area where I think a compromise on the situation is warranted either via a path to citizenship in line with the normal process or something to that effect.

In the first 8 months of the Trump Administration, what POTUS did with DACA is one of the few things I can say he got right. Revoking DACA (because it does seem like an unconstitutional action) but giving a 6 month grace period puts the issue where it belongs ... with the Congress to provide a legislative solution that can be codified in law. It also gives POTUS a bargaining chip with Democrats and Republicans. Politically it could be good or bad, Congress can either:

1. Propose legislation and put it to a vote. This will put members on record with where they stand which could work out poorly for some. Immigration reform is an ugly baby that no one in Congress really wants to address.

2. Do nothing, in which case they would likely start getting deported (which most people don't want); which provides a talking point for everyone that we are either getting rid of illegals, or that the Dem's did nothing to try to keep them here. This would make POTUS the 'bad guy', which he is clearly okay with being.

garhkal
09-15-2017, 07:15 PM
Many things would be better than a wall. Intelligent and practical immigration reform, for starters.

Do we not already have the most LENIENT and open amount of immigrants allowed to come here than ANY OTHER country out there? What reforms on our immigration system are needed??


The issue with the DACA eligible people is (as was said) they came here as minor children. In a large portion of the cases, they have no knowledge of their home nation. Yes, they came here illegally ... with a parent or family member who brought them. Yes, they are illegal, but note that in our system we have charged people as accomplices to bank robbery because they were riding in the getaway car ... would you charge a 5 or 6 year old kid as an accomplice who was in a child-seat in the getaway car? Probably not ... I wouldn't.

If only 5-6 no, but many of them were also teens..


What DACA failed to do was provide a path to permanent residency or citizenship that could make them legal. It was a temporary fix that has been in place for five years. I can agree that illegal immigration is bad / violation of law etc. I don't think throwing someone in this category out of the country outright is the right thing to do either,

That is one thing i will NEVER ever be aggreable to.. WHY SHOULD we have given illegal aliens a pathway to citizenship? Is that not exactly what amnesty is???

meatbringer
09-15-2017, 11:32 PM
Do we not already have the most LENIENT and open amount of immigrants allowed to come here than ANY OTHER country out there? What reforms on our immigration system are needed??

The most lenient? That depends on many variables and differences of perspective and opinion. Now, aside from the fact that most of us come from immigration (everyone except natives, actually), it goes without saying that this country relies heavily on diversity and immigration for numerous reasons. We need immigration to help contribute to our economic growth, especially when it comes to the tech industry. Immigration reform? Like all other laws, it is imperative that we improve and adjust immigration laws in order to compensate for a constantly changing/advancing culture. To think otherwise would be ignorant. We can always improve on laws - needed changes to DACA are a prime example.

"Does anybody really want to throw out good, educated and accomplished young people who have jobs, some serving in the military? Really!....." - Donald Trump, 14 Sep

Mjölnir
09-16-2017, 07:43 AM
If only 5-6 no, but many of them were also teens..

True, to be eligible an applicant had to have been younger than 16 when they came to the US. At 13, 14 or even 15, were you emancipated or self sufficient enough that if your parent(s) said "we're moving" you weren't going with them? I wasn't.


That is one thing i will NEVER ever be aggreable to.. WHY SHOULD we have given illegal aliens a pathway to citizenship? Is that not exactly what amnesty is???

In general I agree, I do think an exception for people who come here as minor children is worth looking at.

garhkal
09-16-2017, 08:31 PM
True, to be eligible an applicant had to have been younger than 16 when they came to the US. At 13, 14 or even 15, were you emancipated or self sufficient enough that if your parent(s) said "we're moving" you weren't going with them? I wasn't.



In general I agree, I do think an exception for people who come here as minor children is worth looking at.

But how many times in the past have we done amnesty for those illegally here, with a promise of 'tougher border controls' which NEVER materialized? 5 times inc reagan. AND after each, what did we see, those who got amnestied, bringing in their kin, and a flood of more illegal aliens in the following years..

Mjölnir
09-17-2017, 08:05 PM
But how many times in the past have we done amnesty for those illegally here, with a promise of 'tougher border controls' which NEVER materialized? 5 times inc reagan. AND after each, what did we see, those who got amnestied, bringing in their kin, and a flood of more illegal aliens in the following years..

Previous amnesties for illegal immigrants included people who came here as adults; the people in question in this case came here as children. That makes it a different issue.

I am all about deporting people who come here as adults, or illegals (even those who came here as kids) if they are committing crimes. Someone who came here as a child, who has been a productive member of our society is a different situation and we should address it as such.

Mjölnir
09-17-2017, 08:06 PM
But how many times in the past have we done amnesty for those illegally here, with a promise of 'tougher border controls' which NEVER materialized? 5 times inc reagan. AND after each, what did we see, those who got amnestied, bringing in their kin, and a flood of more illegal aliens in the following years..

Previous amnesties for illegal immigrants included people who came here as adults; the people in question in this case came here as children. That makes it a different issue.

I am all about deporting people who come here as adults, or illegals (even those who came here as kids) if they are committing crimes. Someone who came here as a child, who has been a productive member of our society is a different situation and we should address it as such.

Rainmaker
09-18-2017, 02:47 AM
Previous amnesties for illegal immigrants included people who came here as adults; the people in question in this case came here as children. That makes it a different issue.

I am all about deporting people who come here as adults, or illegals (even those who came here as kids) if they are committing crimes. Someone who came here as a child, who has been a productive member of our society is a different situation and we should address it as such.

DACA ain't gonna pass. They been trying for over a decade already and can't get it thru. Hence Obozo's unconstitutional executive order.

People are sick of illegals sucking up tax $ that should go to Americans. It's one of the main reasons for the election result. Agree with Garhkal.

If Trump rolls over on amnesty and donkey punches the electorate, then he'll be one and done.

Mjölnir
09-18-2017, 09:24 AM
DACA ain't gonna pass. They been trying for over a decade already and can't get it thru. Hence Obozo's unconstitutional executive order.

People are sick of illegals sucking up tax $ that should go to Americans. It's one of the main reasons for the election result. Agree with Garhkal.

If Trump rolls over on amnesty and donkey punches the electorate, then he'll be one and done.

I really don't know if it will pass or not, it may not have to if there is some deal struck that leaves DACA in place. It hasn't been a decade fro DACA at least, it was enacted in 2012, are you talking about the DREAM Act? That was initially proposed in 2001. The DREAM Act most recent passed a Republican House and almost got through a filibuster in the Senate.

Cross pollenating those who are eligible to stay under DACA with the vast majority of illegal immigrants is misleading. The vast majority of DACA beneficiaries are employed and not "sucking up tax dollars" from Americans. DACA beneficiaries overwhelmingly tend to be in good jobs, have at least a high school education, have a college graduation rate above that of the general population and ... pay taxes -- different than the vast majority of illegal immigrants who aren't well employed, lack education & language skills) and generally aren't paying taxes (some do) ... those are the ones leeching off the system.

Long term, morally (IMO) it is wrong to take someone who as a child was brought to this country by their parents, has grown up here etc. and now throw them out. DACA beneficiaries are a different category of people than an adult who comes here etc. Probably the best solution would be to allow them to stay, but not create a path to citizenship, their children will be citizens and in a generation they (DACA beneficiaries) are phased out.

Concur completely that DACA itself was unconstitutional overreach by POTUS 44, to quote the dissenting opinion from Plyer v. Doe (the Supreme Court case which guaranteed public education to illegal immigrants) ... DACA was POTUS trying "to do Congress' job for it, compensating for congressional inaction". As I said earlier, this is one thing I think POTUS 45 has gotten right by forcing the issue to the Congress. The overall illegal immigration problem has to get fixed, controlling inflow into the country is step one ... I think there are better ways to do that than a wall / physical barrier but I digress ... garhkal is right, we have been down the amnesty road before and since we have provided amnesty but not resolved immigration regulations and border security, we are back in this situation ... again. If we don't resolve immigration reform though, we will be back at this point again in a few years.

garhkal
09-18-2017, 06:34 PM
Previous amnesties for illegal immigrants included people who came here as adults; the people in question in this case came here as children. That makes it a different issue.

I am all about deporting people who come here as adults, or illegals (even those who came here as kids) if they are committing crimes. Someone who came here as a child, who has been a productive member of our society is a different situation and we should address it as such.

But won't (like in previous amnesties) those kids be allowed (once amnestied) to now bring in the rest of THEIR family, just like before?

So whether kids, or whether adults, the result ends up being the same.

Mjölnir
09-18-2017, 07:04 PM
But won't (like in previous amnesties) those kids be allowed (once amnestied) to now bring in the rest of THEIR family, just like before?

So whether kids, or whether adults, the result ends up being the same.

That would depend on how it would be written.

I don't really know what you mean when you say "like before", previous amnesties did not allow carte blanche to bring in family members as permanent residents. I imagine it would work out like it would for any other temporary or permanent resident.

If a guest of a reident overstays their visa, they would be here illegally. If a child, that is not the same situation we are talking about now but yes, it could be abused i.e. bring a child as a guest, they overstay and grow up here etc. a citizen could sponsor a guest who overstays their guest visa as well. Good immigration reform could prevent a lot of that with systems that track guests visas better ... This type of tracking and guest enforcement doesn't exist; kicking DACA beneficiaries out of the country neither changes nor improves that.

I will be interested if Congress does anything:

-legislative fix: DACA --> law
-reintroduction of the DREAM Act (DACA took parts of the DREAM Act and enacted them, there was a lot more.)
-new immigration bill altogether
-some type of deal with POTUS to keep DACA and give home something (tax deal?)
-nothing, let them get deported and then let the backlash ensue (likely worse on Congressional Republicans).

This (POTUS repeal of DACA) could be an excellent forcing function. Congress (and "We the People") have for too long relied on unwavering hard-lines vice compromise. The fact is that unless a party controls the both the Hiuse and Senate (with a filibuster proof majority) and the White House, you have to compromise to get things done ... Even then, success isn't guaranteed. Appealing to the hard line left or right leaves most of the country alienated. Trump benefited from this in 2016 (reliable Blue states going Red -- the middle class got left behind by hard line progressives). Most Americans want to fix illegal immigration, most also don't think kicking out DACA beneficiaries is the right thing to do. Standing like a pillar on this issue will get them thrown out of the country, but the political price is likely a switch by swing voters who went R in 2016.

garhkal
09-19-2017, 06:17 AM
I will be interested if Congress does anything:

-legislative fix: DACA --> law
-reintroduction of the DREAM Act (DACA took parts of the DREAM Act and enacted them, there was a lot more.)
-new immigration bill altogether
-some type of deal with POTUS to keep DACA and give home something (tax deal?)

So you in effect want nothing but amnesty for them..

garhkal
09-19-2017, 06:18 AM
I will be interested if Congress does anything:

-legislative fix: DACA --> law
-reintroduction of the DREAM Act (DACA took parts of the DREAM Act and enacted them, there was a lot more.)
-new immigration bill altogether
-some type of deal with POTUS to keep DACA and give home something (tax deal?)

So you in effect want nothing but amnesty for them..

Which is strange for someone military, who swore an oath to uphold and defend our laws and constitution.

Mjölnir
09-19-2017, 03:25 PM
So you in effect want nothing but amnesty for them..

Which is strange for someone military, who swore an oath to uphold and defend our laws and constitution.

I want the immigration problem to get seriously addressed, in part so that we are not putting innocent bystanders between a rock and a hard place that they didn't choose to be in. As it pertains to DACA beneficiaries, I don't think that throwing them out of the country is the right thing to do and a legislative fix is required. If amnesty is part of that, I would be okay with that for the DACA beneficiaries because to be eligible for DACA there are some pretty specific requirements:

-Must have come to the United States before their 16th birthday
-Must have lived continuously in the United States since June 15, 2007
-Must be under age 31 on June 15, 2012 (i.e., born on June 16, 1981 or after)
-Must have been physically present in the United States on June 15, 2012, and at the time of making their request for consideration of deferred action with USCIS
-Had no lawful status on June 15, 2012
-Must have completed high school or a GED, have been honorably discharged from the armed forces, or are enrolled in school
-Must not have been convicted of a felony or serious misdemeanors, or three or more other misdemeanors, and do not otherwise pose a threat to national security or public safety

The requirements are pretty narrow and winnow down the pool of eligible recipients from the vast majority of illegal immigrants. Also, reading that the average education level completed and employment status for DACA beneficiaries is above that of the general US population ... you are not talking about miscreants leeching off our system; they are productive members of society ... they also pay taxes

I took a similar oath to yours, yes I support the law and the Constitution, which is why I think a legislative fix (which would be law) is the best route. We are talking about people who grew up (at least in part) here in the US. They didn't come here of their own free will; they were brought here (yes, illegally) by a parent or guardian. Do you think upon discovering their legal status they should report themselves or self deport? Have you ever caught yourself speeding over the posted limit but were not pulled over by the police? Did you find out what the appropriate fine would have been and sent a check to the local clerk of the court with a note explaining that you broke the law, didn't get caught but wanted to pay your fine? If not, do you find that strange for someone military, who swore an oath to uphold and defend our laws and Constitution?

Mjölnir
09-19-2017, 03:25 PM
So you in effect want nothing but amnesty for them..

Which is strange for someone military, who swore an oath to uphold and defend our laws and constitution.

I want the immigration problem to get seriously addressed, in part so that we are not putting innocent bystanders between a rock and a hard place that they didn't choose to be in. As it pertains to DACA beneficiaries, I don't think that throwing them out of the country is the right thing to do and a legislative fix is required. If amnesty is part of that, I would be okay with that for the DACA beneficiaries because to be eligible for DACA there are some pretty specific requirements:

-Must have come to the United States before their 16th birthday
-Must have lived continuously in the United States since June 15, 2007
-Must be under age 31 on June 15, 2012 (i.e., born on June 16, 1981 or after)
-Must have been physically present in the United States on June 15, 2012, and at the time of making their request for consideration of deferred action with USCIS
-Had no lawful status on June 15, 2012
-Must have completed high school or a GED, have been honorably discharged from the armed forces, or are enrolled in school
-Must not have been convicted of a felony or serious misdemeanors, or three or more other misdemeanors, and do not otherwise pose a threat to national security or public safety

The requirements are pretty narrow and winnow down the pool of eligible recipients from the vast majority of illegal immigrants. Also, reading that the average education level completed and employment status for DACA beneficiaries is above that of the general US population ... you are not talking about miscreants leeching off our system; they are productive members of society ... they also pay taxes

I took a similar oath to yours, yes I support the law and the Constitution, which is why I think a legislative fix (which would be law) is the best route. We are talking about people who grew up (at least in part) here in the US. They didn't come here of their own free will; they were brought here (yes, illegally) by a parent or guardian. Do you think upon discovering their legal status they should report themselves or self deport? Have you ever caught yourself speeding over the posted limit but were not pulled over by the police? Did you find out what the appropriate fine would have been and sent a check to the local clerk of the court with a note explaining that you broke the law, didn't get caught but wanted to pay your fine? If not, do you find that strange for someone military, who swore an oath to uphold and defend our laws and Constitution?

meatbringer
09-20-2017, 01:47 AM
I took a similar oath to yours, yes I support the law and the Constitution, which is why I think a legislative fix (which would be law) is the best route. We are talking about people who grew up (at least in part) here in the US. They didn't come here of their own free will; they were brought here (yes, illegally) by a parent or guardian. Do you think upon discovering their legal status they should report themselves or self deport? Have you ever caught yourself speeding over the posted limit but were not pulled over by the police? Did you find out what the appropriate fine would have been and sent a check to the local clerk of the court with a note explaining that you broke the law, didn't get caught but wanted to pay your fine? If not, do you find that strange for someone military, who swore an oath to uphold and defend our laws and Constitution?

You better watch it with that logic talk, son. We don't appreciate that shit around here.

garhkal
09-20-2017, 03:35 AM
Do you think upon discovering their legal status they should report themselves or self deport?

I'd be happy if they self deported.. IMO those who DO should be given preferential treatment, once they've say served some time back home, for applying to Legally come here. Those we have to find and kick out, should have to go to the back of any line..


Have you ever caught yourself speeding over the posted limit but were not pulled over by the police? Did you find out what the appropriate fine would have been and sent a check to the local clerk of the court with a note explaining that you broke the law, didn't get caught but wanted to pay your fine? If not, do you find that strange for someone military, who swore an oath to uphold and defend our laws and Constitution?

No, but if/when i get caught breaking the law, i don't go protesting, and Demanding i be 'exempted' from the repercussions of breaking it like most of these illegal aliens seem to be doing.

Rainmaker
09-21-2017, 07:42 PM
morally (IMO) it is wrong to take someone who as a child was brought to this country by their parents, has grown up here etc. and now throw them out.

There was nothing moral about their parents violating our national sovereignty and smuggling them into the country, while our charlatan elected officials looked the other way, in order to loosen the labor market for big business and suppress wages for the American Public.

The media guilt tripping everyone, by saying that we have to stand back and accept our country becoming latinized or we’ll be called “racist,” ain’t gonna fly no more.


Also, reading that the average education level completed and employment status for DACA beneficiaries is above that of the general US population

The average DACA beneficiary makes between $10 and $17 an hour (Depending on which study you look at). IOW they’re working poor.

& every Job they have, is a job stolen from a working poor American Citizen……Every subsidized billet in a college classroom is a billet that’s not available for an American Citizen.



they also pay taxes

So what? It cost far more to educate, house and provide medical care for them, than they pay in.


Do you think upon discovering their legal status they should report themselves or self deport?

This false notion that the parents never told them, so they didn’t know they were here illegally is a bunch of horseshit.

They’re adults now. They should apply for citizenship and get in line…. While they’re waiting, these overachievers can take all the training and education, that we gave them (for free) and get to work making their country of origin great again.

garhkal
09-22-2017, 12:03 AM
There was nothing moral about their parents violating our national sovereignty and smuggling them into the country, while our charlatan elected officials looked the other way, in order to loosen the labor market for big business and suppress wages for the American Public.

The media guilt tripping everyone, by saying that we have to stand back and accept our country becoming latinized or we’ll be called “racist,” ain’t gonna fly no more.


And where were all the 'bleeding heart' and their morals when Kathlie Steinbeck was killed by an Illegal alien who had been deported over a dozen times before, and was hiding out in a sanctuary city? OR the hundreds upon hundreds of OTHER US citizens who have had their families ripped apart by the death of one of their kin, cause of all these illegal aliens?


& every Job they have, is a job stolen from a working poor American Citizen……Every subsidized billet in a college classroom is a billet that’s not available for an American Citizen.


And in some cases, those 'subsidized billets' in schools are given GREATER weight in admissions than an 'equally qualified' US Citizen are, just so they can 'appear to be multicultural'..


This false notion that the parents never told them, so they didn’t know they were here illegally is a bunch of horseshit.


I've never understood how someone could believe that "My parents brought me in, but never told me i was illegally here" Bull either..

Mjölnir
09-23-2017, 12:24 PM
There was nothing moral about their parents violating our national sovereignty and smuggling them into the country, while our charlatan elected officials looked the other way, in order to loosen the labor market for big business and suppress wages for the American Public.

There was nothing moral about them being brought here illegally & without their consent (can a minor consent to their parents moving? Not in the US.)


The media guilt tripping everyone, by saying that we have to stand back and accept our country becoming latinized or we’ll be called “racist,” ain’t gonna fly no more.

I would agree. Want to fix our immigration policy issues is not racist.


The average DACA beneficiary makes between $10 and $17 an hour (Depending on which study you look at). IOW they’re working poor.

We have likely looked at different studies. The one I read excerpts from did not include DACA beneficiaries who are still minors - who tend to work either minimum wage or just above minimum wage jobs, much like most American minors who are in the workforce. Factoring out DACA beneficiaries who are still under 18 got to the numbers I was citing.


& every Job they have, is a job stolen from a working poor American Citizen……Every subsidized billet in a college classroom is a billet that’s not available for an American Citizen.

Agree with you in concept.


So what? It cost far more to educate, house and provide medical care for them, than they pay in.. Correct, the same could be said for most of the US population. The point s, they are contributing .... And in many cases much more than most of our welfare recipients.


This false notion that the parents never told them, so they didn’t know they were here illegally is a bunch of Horseshit.

I agree. I think by the time they are older they know, there is probably that age in childhood where the concept is beyond them. The point I am making is that as kids, they basically went where their parents moved to; same as you and I likely did as kids.


They’re adults now. They should apply for citizenship and get in line…. While they’re waiting, these overachievers can take all the training and education, that we gave them (for free) and get to work making their country of origin great again.

They are adults. My issue is that we are essentially holding them accountable for the ills of their parents who brought them here and our system that for decades has failed to address the loopholes and poor policy that got us here. We ... The big We need to hold our legislators to the fire which as I said is one thing POTUS has gotten right. He is giving them time to fix the laws. He doesn't think deporting them is a good idea either ... Otherwise there would have been no 6-month deferment for Congress to get something done and he would have ordered DHS and ICE to round them up and ship them off since as a result of them registering we know where the DACA beneficiaries live, work and go to school.


And where were all the 'bleeding heart' and their morals when Kathlie Steinbeck was killed by an Illegal alien who had been deported over a dozen times before, and was hiding out in a sanctuary city? OR the hundreds upon hundreds of OTHER US citizens who have had their families ripped apart by the death of one of their kin, cause of all these illegal aliens?

Concur, what happened to her was tragic and unnecessary. The issues that allowed her killer to get back into & remain in the country are not fixed by deporting DACA beneficiaries. Her killer would have never been eligible for DACA. Large, comprehensive immigration reform is needed.

QUOTE=garhkal;370882]And in some cases, those 'subsidized billets' in schools are given GREATER weight in admissions than an 'equally qualified' US Citizen are, just so they can 'appear to be multicultural'..[/quote]

Agree here too, I am not a fan of affirmative action / the bigotry of low expectations. Nor am I a fan of the concept that diversity is where people look different but think the same.


I've never understood how someone could believe that "My parents brought me in, but never told me i was illegally here" Bull either..

I don't think anyone is saying that DACA beneficiaries are unaware of their immigration status, at least not eventually. As a kid, this concept is probably something that most are unaware of. I would think by the time a child was a teenager they either have been told or figure it out. That said, it doesn't answer the question of what we should expect a 12, 13 or 14 etc. year old kid to do when they do figure it out. They very likely lack the maturity or resources to go out on their own and return to their native country if their parents aren't going to go with them. We fall right back into "what would you do if you were 13?" Anyone saying they would self deport at that age is almost certainly full of it.

Rainmaker
09-24-2017, 03:37 PM
There was nothing moral about them being brought here illegally & without their consent

Refusing to enforce the law against certain groups of people is a perversion of justice.


can a minor consent to their parents moving? Not in the US.

And I'm being forced to pay taxes to fund them (following their Foreign National parents decision to illegally move them here), without my consent.



We fall right back into "what would you do if you were 13?" Anyone saying they would self deport at that age is almost certainly full of it.

The majority of them are now over the age of 25.

Mjölnir
09-24-2017, 05:36 PM
Refusing to enforce the law against certain groups of people is a perversion of justice.

I don't disagree. I think rather than looking at this as purely black and white though ... the circumstances as to why the DACA beneficiaries are here is important and the main factor I have in thinking we should find a way to provide them a legal status.


And I'm being forced to pay taxes to fund them (following their Foreign National parents decision to illegally move them here), without my consent.

Which doesn't answer the issue of what you expect the child to do when their parent or guardian says "we're moving". My daughter was 3 1/2 when we adopted her. She came to the US (legally) literally kicking and screaming at various times; she didn't get a vote on whether or not she wanted to come here. If she was being brought here illegally, she still wouldn't have has input with those bringing her.


The majority of them are now over the age of 25.

True. But I don't think expecting them to self deport when they hit 18, 21 or another age is right. Again, if you catch yourself speeding do you turn yourself in? They have lived here for years, our laws allow them to be educated here regardless of immigration status, this is their home and they are being productive ... this is an entirely different category of individual than the vast majority of illegal aliens (who should be kicked out of the country).

Mjölnir
09-24-2017, 05:36 PM
Refusing to enforce the law against certain groups of people is a perversion of justice.

I don't disagree. I think rather than looking at this as purely black and white though ... the circumstances as to why the DACA beneficiaries are here is important and the main factor I have in thinking we should find a way to provide them a legal status.


And I'm being forced to pay taxes to fund them (following their Foreign National parents decision to illegally move them here), without my consent.

Which doesn't answer the issue of what you expect the child to do when their parent or guardian says "we're moving". My daughter was 3 1/2 when we adopted her. She came to the US (legally) literally kicking and screaming at various times; she didn't get a vote on whether or not she wanted to come here. If she was being brought here illegally, she still wouldn't have had input with those bringing her.


The majority of them are now over the age of 25.

True. But I don't think expecting them to self deport when they hit 18, 21 or another age is right. Again, if you catch yourself speeding do you turn yourself in? They have lived here for years, our laws allow them to be educated here regardless of immigration status, this is their home and they are being productive ... this is an entirely different category of individual than the vast majority of illegal aliens (who should be kicked out of the country).

Mjölnir
09-24-2017, 05:39 PM
Of note: Pretty great that while there is some disagreement, the debate is civil. 'Merica

garhkal
09-24-2017, 05:56 PM
Of note: Pretty great that while there is some disagreement, the debate is civil. 'Merica

That is true.. WE do have that going for us.. Unlike all the unpatriotic football (and now NBA/MLB hacks)..