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Mjölnir
03-06-2017, 10:36 AM
Marine Corps Times: https://www.marinecorpstimes.com/articles/marines-nude-photo-scandal


WASHINGTON — The U.S. Marine Corps is investigating allegations an unspecified number of military personnel and veterans allegedly distributed nude photos of female colleagues and other women as part of a perverse social media network that promotes sexual violence.


The explosive revelation was first reported by The War Horse and published Saturday via Reveal, part of the Center for Investigative Reporting. Potentially hundreds of Marines may be caught up in the scandal, which has shaken top Pentagon officials and prompted death threats against the Marine veteran who disclosed it. An undetermined number of nude photos were shared online by way of a Facebook group titled Marines United, according to the report. The community has nearly 30,000 members, mostly comprising active-duty U.S. Marines, Marine Corps veterans and British Royal Marines.

The unseemly episode is deeply embarrassing for the Marine Corps and the Defense Department, proud institutions that, like many college campuses around the country, have struggled to curtail widespread problems with sexual assault. At the same time, it exposes an unsettling rift within a segment of American society consistently regarded as reputable, honorable and trustworthy.

A Marine Corps spokesman at the Pentagon confirmed that an investigation is underway, telling Marine Corps Times on Saturday night that military officials are uncertain how many personnel may be involved. The spokesman, Maj. Clark Carpenter, referred additional questions to the Naval Criminal Investigative Service, but that agency's spokesman was not immediately available.


The Marines' top general, Commandant Robert Neller, declined to comment specifically about the investigation, but he condemned the behavior that's been alleged. "The success of every Marine, every team, every unit and command throughout our Corps is based on mutual trust and respect," Neller said in a statement provided to Marine Corps Times. "I expect every Marine to demonstrate the highest integrity and loyalty to fellow Marines at all times, on duty, off-duty and online."

Marine Corps Times has been unable to reach the administrator of Marines United. Defenders of the private group, following Marine Corps Times' initial report, pointed out members have helped Marines suffering from post-traumatic stress, and that the group has reacted in force to help suicidal service members.

Senior Marine Corps officials are circulating a 10-page document outlining the allegations and approved talking points about the service's effort to investigate them. Marine Corps Times obtained a copy early Sunday.

The news report was authored by Thomas Brennan, an Iraq and Afghanistan combat veteran and Purple Heart recipient who founded The War Horse in 2016. The nonprofit news site focuses on military and veterans affairs, and tales of combat heroism.

After its publication, several members of the Facebook group lashed out at Brennan, making threats against him and his family. One suggested Brennan should be waterboarded, a cruel and controversial technique used for a time by American military and intelligence operatives while interrogating suspected terrorists. President Obama condemned the practice, while President Trump has said it should be reinstated — against the advice of his defense secretary, retired Marine Corps Gen. Jim Mattis.

That some U.S. Marines would suggest another deserves to be tortured or murdered is perhaps more troubling than the salacious allegations Brennan exposed in his reporting.


There's a "bounty on pictures of my daughter," Brennan told Marine Corps Times. "It has been suggested that my wife should be raped as a result of this, and people are openly suggesting I should be killed. ... Can you imagine being one of the victims?"

The story was "exhaustively researched," he added, noting that the Defense Department is conducting an investigation "to ensure the victims receive justice" and no one else falls prey.

"As a Marine veteran," Brennan said, "I stand by the code: honor, courage and commitment. This story was published with the intention of standing up for what is right and staying true to the leadership principle of looking out for Marines and their families."

His report includes a number of disturbing allegations. It suggests some women were stalked while others may have taken the compromising photos themselves, intending them to be private, only to be betrayed by whoever shared them with the Facebook group. Most troubling is the claim that members of Marines United proudly advocated for one woman to be sexually assaulted, an unidentified female Marine who was secretly photographed, according to the report.
The Marine Corps — perhaps more than the other military services — has grappled with social media malfeasance for years, both within the ranks and among its veteran population. Members of Congress, including Rep. Jackie Speier of California, have been after senior leaders to get tougher on confronting cyber bullies. That makes these new revelations all the more discouraging.

At its most disgraceful, the online bullying targets racial and religious minorities, those who are overweight, homosexuals, transgender people and women, whom social media trolls readily condemn as inferior to men and unworthy of the service's coveted Eagle, Globe and Anchor device intended to be a symbol uniting all Marines.
Former President Barack Obama's order to open ground combat specialties to women, an edict several Marine Corps generals have publicly opposed, seems to have fueled the offensive discourse online. Army leaders, by contrast, have welcomed the change, raising questions as to whether the Marines' institutional resistance to gender integration within its principal war-fighting units has unwittingly exacerbated the struggle with reducing deviant behavior.

Marine Corps officials are encouraging victims to report suspected crimes via NCIS, which has several means to contact law enforcement anonymously.

"The Marine Corps is deeply concerned," said Capt. Ryan E. Alvis, a Marine Corps spokeswoman. "... This behavior destroys morale, erodes trust, and degrades the individual." Alvis indicated the allegations, if proven true, would violate the Uniform Code of Military Justice and could result in criminal charges. The Marine Corps, she added, has various resources available to those who believe they were targeted.

"In addition to the chain of command, resources include, but are not limited to: Military One Source, Inspector General hotlines and military chaplains," Alvis said. "Individuals can also report the incident to local authorities. Efforts are underway to notify commanders and other resource providers."

The top enlisted Marine, Sergeant Major of the Marine Corps Ronald Green, said there is no place for "this type of demeaning or degrading behavior." He issued an emotional written statement encouraging Marines to come forward and expose the wrongdoers. It's their responsibility, he said.

"Stand up, speak out and be a voice of change for the better," Green said. "Hold those who misstep accountable. We need to realize that silence is consent — do not be silent. It is your duty to protect one another, not just for the Marine Corps but for humanity. ... I need you with me on this."

"Ultimately," he added, "we must take a look in the mirror and decide whether we are part of the problem or the solution."

Mjölnir
03-06-2017, 11:03 AM
HQMC Public Affairs guidance on Marines United: http://snagfilms-a.akamaihd.net/4c/10/f39221f14c379e3cf4c6b6f0e20b/marine-corps-public-affairs-guidance-marines-united.pdf

garhkal
03-06-2017, 06:43 PM
SIckening. Threatening not just the article writer but his kin? Man i hope all those douche bags get smacked HARD by the court.

efmbman
03-07-2017, 01:00 AM
While this is a sad state of affairs... was this relevant to the article:

After its publication, several members of the Facebook group lashed out at Brennan, making threats against him and his family. One suggested Brennan should be waterboarded, a cruel and controversial technique used for a time by American military and intelligence operatives while interrogating suspected terrorists. President Obama condemned the practice, while President Trump has said it should be reinstated — against the advice of his defense secretary, retired Marine Corps Gen. Jim Mattis.
Seems that part was included simply to take a jab at Trump. No other reason to include that in the article.

Rainmaker
03-07-2017, 02:50 AM
While this is a sad state of affairs... was this relevant to the article:

Seems that part was included simply to take a jab at Trump. No other reason to include that in the article.



I've noticed that most of the "articles" here have had subtle biases embedded in them, for quite a while now.

An offshore firm (regent equity partners) ultimately owns the military times. They must want the corporate socialism/socialist nation to continue unchecked.

garhkal
03-07-2017, 04:45 AM
I've noticed that most of the "articles" here have had subtle biases embedded in them, for quite a while now.

An offshore firm (regent equity partners) ultimately owns the military times. They must want the corporate socialism/socialist nation to continue unchecked.

I've noticed the trend too..

garhkal
03-07-2017, 04:46 AM
I've noticed that most of the "articles" here have had subtle biases embedded in them, for quite a while now.

An offshore firm (regent equity partners) ultimately owns the military times. They must want the corporate socialism/socialist nation to continue unchecked.

I've noticed the trend too..

Mjölnir
03-07-2017, 08:21 AM
While this is a sad state of affairs... was this relevant to the article:

Seems that part was included simply to take a jab at Trump. No other reason to include that in the article.

I didn't think so ... but didn't want to cut something from the middle of the article.

Many of the comments I am reading on various outlets focus on a couple of things some of which are misleading:

1. The (mostly) women who are the subjects of the photos willing took the photos, they should have known better.
-While the women may have willingly allowed the photos to be taken, there is a big difference (moral and legal) from allowing an intimate or risqué photo to be taken and shared with a partner, and consenting to that photo being uploaded and shared with the public via social media. I see words like 'slut' and 'whore' being used to describe them ... which again, if the photos were meant to be private and not public seems to run counter to that. It does seem a small number of the women did post some of the photos to other websites themselves.

2. Once uploaded to the internet, the photos were in the public domain.
-Mostly incorrect. Most (38) states have laws that require consent to post an image for public consumption. If the subject of the photo uploaded it themselves, that implies consent. If a partner or former partner uploaded it without their consent ... they stand a good chance of having violated the law.

3. Downloading the photo / further sharing the photo once it was on the internet was not illegal.
-Mostly correct. While possessing the photo could be considered to be in possession of stolen property. As the investigation goes on I could see people's personal computers, smart phones etc. being seized to recover digital forensics ... they many get their computers back in the long run ... but it would create a pain in the ass to be sure.

4. The Marines United group did a lot of good (helping homeless former-Marines, suicide intervention etc.)
-True. This doesn't negate that the group seemed to have a section (how large or small is unknown right now) who were pretty dedicated to this photo sharing thing. It seems that some female Marines were truly stalked and filmed / photographed without their knowledge around their base, identified by name, unit etc. and comments made about wanting to sexually assault them -- literally -- "I would rape the shit out of her". The comments may have been made in jest, but this is not in keeping with the bearing, discipline or behavior expected of a Marine ... period.

This would not have been okay over 25 years ago when I joined the infantry, it not being okay is not a PC weakening of the Marine Corps ... this is a few dumbasses letting their fellow Marines down ... period. The stance that Marines United originally took -- that they do a lot of good and people should just focus on the fact that the group helps veterans ignores that Marines United let some veterans down. Marines United saying that the responsibility for consent to upload these photos was up to the member to obtain, ignores that Marines United took zero ... ZERO action to stop their social media footprint to be used for this ... they also seemed to have encouraged it. They may hide behind the "it was the users" defense and let those other Marines take all the heat for this to save their own asses, that type of character is what I would expect from folks who did this in the first place.

Rainmaker
03-09-2017, 02:58 AM
Here's a sightly different take. IMO, the blogger raises a few obvious (but verboten) questions.

http://grimbeorn.blogspot.com/2017/03/going-to-have-to-work-on-this.html

Going To Have To Work On This


The USMC is having a bit of a scandal right now, over the existence of a Facebook group made up of Marines and former Marines that shared nude pictures of female Marines.

Oddly enough, it's the less-revealing images that are the greater concern.

In one instance, a woman corporal in uniform was followed at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina by a fellow Marine, who surreptitiously photographed her as she picked up her gear. Those photographs were posted online in the Facebook group “Marines United,” which has nearly 30,000 followers, drawing dozens of obscene comments.

That woman, in her full dress, was victimized by being stalked -- and perhaps, again, by the commentary on her desirability. (I say 'perhaps' because it's unclear. Would she have been victimized if the comments had not been made public? Her identity is not public, so perhaps she doesn't even know herself what was said about her. Is she a victim of 'harassment' if she's suffered no mental harm? Maybe -- perhaps she could be victimized by being in a culture that was hostile to her even if she was completely unaware that it was hostile to her. On the other hand, a group of anonymous posters on Facebook is not her chain of command, so perhaps this group doesn't rise to the level of 'a hostile work environment.' I leave all that to others to sort out.)

The stalking is genuinely improper. On the other hand, what about this?

Many images appear to have originated from the consensual, but private, exchange of racy images, some clearly taken by the women themselves.
Here, the women consented to being photographed -- photographed themselves, even -- but not to having the images shared in a creeper database of which they knew nothing.

So... what exactly do you do about that? Presumably the woman has a right to take a photo of herself naked if she wants to, even though she's a Marine. She has a right to share it, arguably, even though she's a Marine (indeed, she's certainly not in uniform). So what do we say about the unauthorized sharing? Is it a copyright violation?

If you're sharing nude photos of yourself with other members of the Marine Corps -- not your spouse, I presume -- aren't you partially responsible for the collapse of good order that this represents? If you allow yourself to be videoed having sex by other members of your unit, aren't you partially responsible for the collapse of good order?

No, of course not. These are all "victims," and the PAO has put out a 10 page document in part devoted to explaining their rights under the law.

Meanwhile, the news stories about this are taking pains to paint this as a USMC failure, claiming that the Corps' hostility to the idea of integrating women into the combat arms is responsible for this whole incident. A gentle suggestion: is it worth considering that the leadership's hostility to the idea was built around the understanding that a collapse of good order and discipline such as this was highly likely? Doesn't this scandal prove the leadership's concerns about what this would do to their organization to have been fairly sound?

sparks82
03-09-2017, 07:31 PM
The simple fact that whoever is running this page has relocated it somewhere else and is actually bragging about the media attention and the investigations and trying to get investigators to find them shows that they really don't care what they are doing nor do they think it's wrong.

If they took the images from other websites that some women may have shared them on then they can - but there was no need for them to post full names, ranks and branches of service. There was no need to stalk women and take photos and make comments about rape or messaging these women with threats.

Just because someone takes a photo and sends it to a partner doesn't mean that person has the right to then share it after they break up or to get revenge. That's disgusting.

Is that online repository new? No. I remember this guy in my unit talking about a hard drive with photos of Army female soldiers nude or partially nude. It was something that a bunch of guys shared and compiled somehow. I'm not sure how they got all of them. But he had said he had a hard drive with all these photos. I didn't see it. I'm sure most of those photos those females did not consent to be in that repository.

People can say "don't take nude photos if you don't want them to end up on the Internet." But that just detracts from the disgusting behavior of the people who hosted this site and for those who post "revenge porn" and photos after breakups. That's like telling someone who got robbed "Shouldn't have nice things." Or if you were walking down the street, minding your own business, and you get assaulted and mugged "Oh well that's your fault for walking down that street." How about we hold people accountable for their actions? Just a thought. I don't see any justification for them having that site and the fact that some admins are bragging about it is even more despicable.

Mjölnir
03-10-2017, 07:54 AM
Here's a sightly different take. IMO, the blogger raises a few obvious (but verboten) questions.

http://grimbeorn.blogspot.com/2017/03/going-to-have-to-work-on-this.html

Going To Have To Work On This

The USMC is having a bit of a scandal right now, over the existence of a Facebook group made up of Marines and former Marines that shared nude pictures of female Marines.

Oddly enough, it's the less-revealing images that are the greater concern.

In one instance, a woman corporal in uniform was followed at Camp Lejeune in North Carolina by a fellow Marine, who surreptitiously photographed her as she picked up her gear. Those photographs were posted online in the Facebook group “Marines United,” which has nearly 30,000 followers, drawing dozens of obscene comments.

That woman, in her full dress, was victimized by being stalked -- and perhaps, again, by the commentary on her desirability. (I say 'perhaps' because it's unclear. Would she have been victimized if the comments had not been made public? Her identity is not public, so perhaps she doesn't even know herself what was said about her. Is she a victim of 'harassment' if she's suffered no mental harm? Maybe -- perhaps she could be victimized by being in a culture that was hostile to her even if she was completely unaware that it was hostile to her. On the other hand, a group of anonymous posters on Facebook is not her chain of command, so perhaps this group doesn't rise to the level of 'a hostile work environment.' I leave all that to others to sort out.)

The stalking is genuinely improper. On the other hand, what about this?

Many images appear to have originated from the consensual, but private, exchange of racy images, some clearly taken by the women themselves.
Here, the women consented to being photographed -- photographed themselves, even -- but not to having the images shared in a creeper database of which they knew nothing.

So... what exactly do you do about that? Presumably the woman has a right to take a photo of herself naked if she wants to, even though she's a Marine. She has a right to share it, arguably, even though she's a Marine (indeed, she's certainly not in uniform). So what do we say about the unauthorized sharing? Is it a copyright violation?

If you're sharing nude photos of yourself with other members of the Marine Corps -- not your spouse, I presume -- aren't you partially responsible for the collapse of good order that this represents? If you allow yourself to be videoed having sex by other members of your unit, aren't you partially responsible for the collapse of good order?

No, of course not. These are all "victims," and the PAO has put out a 10 page document in part devoted to explaining their rights under the law.

Meanwhile, the news stories about this are taking pains to paint this as a USMC failure, claiming that the Corps' hostility to the idea of integrating women into the combat arms is responsible for this whole incident. A gentle suggestion: is it worth considering that the leadership's hostility to the idea was built around the understanding that a collapse of good order and discipline such as this was highly likely? Doesn't this scandal prove the leadership's concerns about what this would do to their organization to have been fairly sound?

Good points.

The stalking is really concerning, creepy etc. As far as the consensual images that were privately shared, the UCMJ is very clear:


10 U.S. Code § 920c - Art. 120c. Other sexual misconduct

(a)Indecent Viewing, Visual Recording, or Broadcasting.—Any person subject to this chapter who, without legal justification or lawful authorization—
(1) knowingly and wrongfully views the private area of another person, without that other person’s consent and under circumstances in which that other person has a reasonable expectation of privacy;

(2) knowingly photographs, videotapes, films, or records by any means the private area of another person, without that other person’s consent and under circumstances in which that other person has a reasonable expectation of privacy; or

(3) knowingly broadcasts or distributes any such recording that the person knew or reasonably should have known was made under the circumstances proscribed in paragraphs (1) and (2);
is guilty of an offense under this section and shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

A female taking or allowing the photo to be taken by her partner is not in violation of Art 120c, the partner is not in violation for possessing it. It is a violation for the partner to violate that "reasonable expectation of privacy" and further share that photo.

I don't think the subject of the photo is responsible (partially or not) for a collapse of good order & discipline as the photo was private, the individual who shares that photo is responsible. In our private lives there are likely moments that if captured in a photo / video would be embarrassing and could cause a breakdown of good order & discipline. It is not harming the discipline of your unit to have these moments in your life, it does when someone broadcasts them out.

As far as the closing point: The Marine Corps should have seen this coming when integrating women into combat arms. While the problem is large, it is not the entire or majority of the Marine Corps or combat arms fields caught up in this. Ironically, only one of the women who was commented on in the page seems to have been one of he new infantry Marines, almost all are women who where girlfriends (sometimes ex), wives, friends, if the Marines doing the photo sharing ... the problem wasn't caused by putting women into combat arms, the problem was the small percentage of dumbasses (who were already ) in combat arms who thought / think that sharing a private photo without the woman's consent is okay / cool.

Mjölnir
03-10-2017, 09:54 AM
The simple fact that whoever is running this page has relocated it somewhere else and is actually bragging about the media attention and the investigations and trying to get investigators to find them shows that they really don't care what they are doing nor do they think it's wrong.

For the women who hadn't provided consent to disseminate the photos, what the photo-sharers think is immaterial to UCMJ Art 120c and applicable state laws, simple as that.

If a female uploaded them herself, she has implied or specifically given (based on the website) consent. Identifying her by name, rank, unit etc. is definitely creepy / stalker-ish ... but likely wouldn't violate the UCMJ or state law.


People can say "don't take nude photos if you don't want them to end up on the Internet." But that just detracts from the disgusting behavior of the people who hosted this site and for those who post "revenge porn" and photos after breakups. That's like telling someone who got robbed "Shouldn't have nice things." Or if you were walking down the street, minding your own business, and you get assaulted and mugged "Oh well that's your fault for walking down that street." How about we hold people accountable for their actions? Just a thought. I don't see any justification for them having that site and the fact that some admins are bragging about it is even more despicable.

I would almost equate this to walking down the sidewalk next to a street. There is a certain 'relationship' between the pedestrian and the motor vehicle operator ... a trust -- the pedestrian trusts that the cars will stay on the road, the driver trusts that pedestrians won't just dart out into traffic. We don't blame the pedestrian for getting hit when they stay on the sidewalk and the car goes over the curb and hits them. We don't (necessarily) blame the driver when the pedestrian jumps out in front of the car. There is a reasonable expectation of privacy with photos like these. The "if you don't want these photos out there, you should not have taken them" viewpoint is akin to saying "you wouldn't have been hit had you not been on the sidewalk".

Rainmaker
03-15-2017, 05:54 PM
Well folks, we all knew it was coming........

& In response the photo sharing scandal, the Commandant has just announced "revolutionary new changes" to the Marine Corps 'sensitivity' training program.......

Beginning next month all male recruits will be required to undergo a rigorous 80 hour initial block of instruction at Parris Island...... followed up with an 8 hour locally conducted , refresher session, each year thereafter.

Additional details and anonymously leaked video (of the instructor course) can be found at the link below:

https://www.rt.com/viral/377844-iron-crotch-kung-fu/

garhkal
03-15-2017, 06:22 PM
Yea, when the congressional brats were grilling him the other day, i just KNEW one of the come outs of all this was yet "more sensitivity training".

HOWS ABOUT PUNISH the hell out of the douchebags who did all this.

waveshaper2
03-16-2017, 12:11 AM
HOWS ABOUT PUNISH the hell out of the douchebags who did all this.

Possible punishment for these Devil Dogs;

Nuts;

Three dogs were sitting in the waiting room at the vet's when they struck up a conversation.

The Yellow Labrador turned to the Black Labrador and said, so why are you here? I'm a pisser. I piss on everything....the sofa, the curtains, the cat, the kids. But the final straw was last night when I pissed in the middle of my owner's bed. The Yellow Lab said, so what's the vet going to do? "Gonna cut my nuts off" came the reply from the Black Lab.
They reckon it'll calm me down.

The Black Lab then turned to the Yellow Lab and asked, why are you here? The Yellow Lab said, I'm a digger. I dig under fences, dig up flowers and trees, I dig just for the hell of it. When I'm inside, I dig up the carpets. But I went over the line last night when I dug a great big hole in owner's couch. So what are they going to do to you "the Black Lab inquired"? Looks like I'm losing my nuts too, the dejected Yellow Lab said.

The Black Lab then turned to the Great Dane and asked, why are you here? I'm a humper, said the Great Dane. I'll hump anything. I'll hump the cat, a pillow, the table, fence posts, whatever. I want to hump
everything I see. Yesterday my owner had just got out of the shower and was bending down to dry her toes, and I just couldn't help myself. I hopped on her back and started hammering away.
The Black and the Yellow Labs exchanged a sad glance and said, "So, it's nuts off for you too, huh ?” The Great Dane said, “No, apparently I'm here to get my nails clipped!"

waveshaper2
03-16-2017, 12:12 AM
HOWS ABOUT PUNISH the hell out of the douchebags who did all this.

Possible punishment for these Devil Dogs;

Nuts;

Three dogs were sitting in the waiting room at the vet's when they struck up a conversation.

The Yellow Labrador turned to the Black Labrador and said, so why are you here? I'm a pisser. I piss on everything....the sofa, the curtains, the cat, the kids. But the final straw was last night when I pissed in the middle of my owner's bed. The Yellow Lab said, so what's the vet going to do? "Gonna cut my nuts off" came the reply from the Black Lab.
They reckon it'll calm me down.

The Black Lab then turned to the Yellow Lab and asked, why are you here? The Yellow Lab said, I'm a digger. I dig under fences, dig up flowers and trees, I dig just for the hell of it. When I'm inside, I dig up the carpets. But I went over the line last night when I dug a great big hole in owner's couch. So what are they going to do to you "the Black Lab inquired"? Looks like I'm losing my nuts too, the dejected Yellow Lab said.

The Black Lab then turned to the Great Dane and asked, why are you here? I'm a humper, said the Great Dane. I'll hump anything. I'll hump the cat, a pillow, the table, fence posts, whatever. I want to hump
everything I see. Yesterday my owner had just got out of the shower and was bending down to dry her toes, and I just couldn't help myself. I hopped on her back and started hammering away.
The Black and the Yellow Labs exchanged a sad glance and said, "So, it's nuts off for you too, huh ?” The Great Dane said, “No, apparently I'm here to get my nails clipped!"

garhkal
03-16-2017, 03:43 AM
That was funny as hell wave.. Thanks for the laugh.

sparks82
03-16-2017, 01:46 PM
Of course the go to answer for these things in the military is "more sensitivity training!!!" I'm not sure why these higher ups think that PowerPoint is the cure to the ills within our military. None of it has worked so far.

If you have to get trained on how not to be a douchebag I think you have bigger issues in life...