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Mjölnir
02-14-2017, 07:37 AM
Yesterday it started to look inevitable that Flynn was out:


President Trump’s embattled national security adviser Michael Flynn resigned Monday night, Fox News reported.

Flynn, in his resignation letter, wrote that he "inadvertently" briefed top officials with incomplete information regarding his call with the Russian ambassador.

"I have sincerely apologized to the president and the vice president, and they have accepted my apology," the letter read.

Trump has named Lt. Gen Joseph Keith Kellogg, Jr., as his acting national security adviser.

The White House earlier said Trump was "evaluating the situation" regarding Flynn's conversations with Russia's ambassador to the U.S., deepening the uncertainty surrounding Flynn's future in the new administration.

Flynn apologized privately for the controversy to Vice President Mike Pence, according to a White House official. Pence, relying on information from Flynn, publicly vouched that the retired Army lieutenant general did not discuss U.S. sanctions against Russia in calls late last year. Flynn has since told the White House that sanctions may have come up.

White House spokesman Sean Spicer said Trump was consulting with Pence about his conversations with the national security adviser. Asked whether the president had been aware that Flynn might discuss sanctions with the Russian envoy, Spicer said, "No, absolutely not."

Trump, who comments on a steady stream of issues on his Twitter feed, has been conspicuously silent about the matter since The Washington Post reported last week that Flynn had discussed sanctions with the Russian envoy. A U.S. official told The Associated Press that Flynn was in frequent contact with Ambassador Sergey Kislyak on the day the Obama administration slapped sanctions on Russia for election-related hacking, as well as at other times during the transition.

Earlier Monday, White House counselor Kellyanne Conway said Trump had "full confidence" in Flynn, though her assertions were not backed up by other senior Trump aides. Spicer would say only that Flynn was continuing to carry out "his daily functions."

The conflicting signals created confusion at the White House, with reporters crowding around Spicer's office for hours Monday afternoon seeking information on Flynn's future.

About the new National Security Advisor, Joseph Kellogg (former commander of the 82 Airborne Division):


Lt. General Joseph Keith Kellogg, Jr., was named President Trump’s acting national security advisor after the administration’s former advisor was forced to resign amid reports about a phone call with a Russian ambassador.

Kellogg, 72, is a decorated Army veteran who served two tours in Vietnam War, where he earned a number of medals, including the Silver Star. He served as the commander of the famous 82nd Airborne Division from 1997 to 1998.

Kellogg, who has been seen a number of times in Trump Tower, is considered to be one of the president’s closest advisers. He was directly under Flynn until the resignation.

The Nation reported that Kellogg has taken a deep interest in “computer-driven” warfare since retiring from the military. He reportedly worked as a vice president at Cubic Corp., which provides ground combat training and technical support for the Pentagon.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/40/Michael_Flynn_Resignation_Letter.pdf

sandsjames
02-14-2017, 11:29 AM
Yep...1 down, several to go...tic toc, tic toc.

Bos Mutus
02-14-2017, 01:48 PM
I don't really get the gravity of talking to the Russian ambassador about sanctions...

Misleading the VP, okay...

sandsjames
02-14-2017, 01:53 PM
I don't really get the gravity of talking to the Russian ambassador about sanctions...

Misleading the VP, okay...


For one, it's illegal for civilians/non-government officials to discuss official business with foreign governments. Of course it happens all the time and is no big deal. Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and all sorts of people do it once they're no longer in office.

The bigger problem, I think, is that it became apparent that the lying was too much and it seems that it's possible Russia could have information to blackmail Flynn...so once all that became public there was really no other choice.

Ultimately, it makes the administration look like even more of a joke. Kellyanne has different statements than Miller and the VP...I picture the White House with Benny Hill music playing over the PA system.

Mjölnir
02-14-2017, 02:02 PM
I don't really get the gravity of talking to the Russian ambassador about sanctions...

Misleading the VP, okay...

In part it has to do with there is only one administration at a time.

Big picture, "not remembering" what you talked to Russian diplomats about or (purposely?) misleading your boss (POTUS / VPOTUS) is the bigger issue IMO.

It falls back to the "special trust and confidence in the fidelities and abilities of ..." concept.

Add on to this LTG Flynn already took an early ding when his son was released from the transition team for spreading unsubstantiated news. At some point when your worth to the organization is outweighed by the distractions, you are not going to be kept around very long.

Mjölnir
02-14-2017, 02:02 PM
I don't really get the gravity of talking to the Russian ambassador about sanctions...

Misleading the VP, okay...

In part it has to do with there is only one administration at a time.

Big picture, "not remembering" what you talked to Russian diplomats about or (purposely?) misleading your boss (POTUS / VPOTUS) is the bigger issue IMO.

It falls back to the "special trust and confidence in the fidelities and abilities of ..." concept.

Add on to this LTG Flynn already took an early ding when his son was released from the transition team for spreading unsubstantiated news. At some point when your worth to the organization is outweighed by the distractions, you are not going to be kept around very long.

Rainmaker
02-14-2017, 02:44 PM
Yesterday it started to look inevitable that Flynn was out:

We'll likely never know the backstory. But, Flynn made many enemies in the IC bureaucracy , when he publically describe them as only 'marginally relevant' 9 years after 9-11 (See: "Fixing Intel” blueprint).

He was later declared Persona Non Grata, by the Obama/Clinton sycophants (when he faulted them for creating ISIS) And they've been conjuring up the absurd "Russian puppets' controversy, with leaks to the "fake news" for months now.

He's definitely no politician. So, I'm not at all surprised to see him fall on his sword, for President Trump, if he thought it'd become too much of a distraction.

On a personal note. I worked for General Flynn on several occasions (Both in-garrison and deployed) and found him to be a great leader and a True Patriot. Not at all like the warmongering caricature, that the media presents.

The good news is, He got to advise the President throughout the campaign & He'll land on his feet & he can go make real money now. and continue to serve the National interest, By 'calling it like it is', in the public sphere.

Mjölnir
02-14-2017, 04:59 PM
We'll likely never know the backstory. But, Flynn made many enemies in the IC , when he publically called them out in his "Fixing Intel” blueprint.

He was declared Persona Non Grata, by the Obama/Clinton sycophants (when he faulted them for creating ISIS) And they've been conjuring up the absurd "Russian moles' controversy, in the "fake news" for months now.

He's definitely no politician. So, I'm not at all surprised to see him fall on his sword, for President Trump, if he thought it'd become too much of a distraction.

We won't ever know the backstory, it does seem he misrepresented (intentionally or unintentionally) some things to his boss. What ever his history with folks in the IC is/was ... he hung himself on this.

sandsjames
02-14-2017, 05:17 PM
We won't ever know the backstory, I think we'll find out quite a bit during the impeachment.

Bos Mutus
02-14-2017, 05:23 PM
I bet Spicer is not far behind.

Rainmaker
02-14-2017, 05:44 PM
We won't ever know the backstory, it does seem he misrepresented (intentionally or unintentionally) some things to his boss. What ever his history with folks in the IC is/was ... he hung himself on this.

Remains to be seen. Good people fuck up all the time and either have to resign or get fired.

Mjölnir
02-14-2017, 05:51 PM
Remains to be seen. Good people fuck up all the time and either have to resign or get fired.

Not saying he isn't a good guy (we are all "good guys") ... but yeah ... it seems he erred bigly.

sandsjames
02-14-2017, 05:57 PM
Remains to be seen. Good people fuck up all the time and either have to resign or get fired.

I imagine your response, had this been a Democrat administration, would be slightly different.

Rainmaker
02-14-2017, 06:04 PM
I imagine your response, had this been a Democrat administration, would be slightly different.

Don't remember hearing you cry 'impeachment' when your Queen Hillary's ties to Foreign Governments and the Muslim Brotherhood came to light.

sandsjames
02-14-2017, 06:09 PM
Don't remember hearing you cry 'impeachment' when your Queen Hillary's ties to Foreign Governments and the Muslim Brotherhood came to light.

Tic toc, tic toc, tic toc.

Rainmaker
02-14-2017, 06:14 PM
Not saying he isn't a good guy (we are all "good guys") ... but yeah ... it seems he erred bigly.
Not me. This should be a wakeup call. Trump's going to get nowhere until he purges the globalist subversives that are sabotaging the ship from within. He should start with John McCain.


Tic toc, tic toc, tic toc.

The best defense against it, is a good offense. Time to go after Obama Shadow government. Wonder what's in Huma Abedin's panty drawer?

sandsjames
02-14-2017, 06:23 PM
The best defense against it, is a good offense. Time to go after Obama Shadow government. Wonder what's in Huma Abedin's panty drawer?I don't know what any of this means so...

Rainmaker
02-14-2017, 06:32 PM
I don't know what any of this means so...

Wouldn't have expected otherwise. "Morning Joe" doesn't mention it.

sandsjames
02-14-2017, 06:35 PM
Wouldn't have expected otherwise. "Morning Joe" doesn't mention it.

True...but I'm sure it makes perfect sense on your cult websites and is probably a great punch line at the meetings. I guess maybe I should pay more attention to the contents of someone's panty drawer?

Rainmaker
02-14-2017, 06:45 PM
True...but I'm sure it makes perfect sense on your cult websites and is probably a great punch line at the meetings. I guess maybe I should pay more attention to the contents of someone's panty drawer?

Stick to fixing the light cart and letting Jake Tapper tell you what to think. You'll be much happier that way.

sandsjames
02-14-2017, 07:05 PM
Stick to fixing the light cart and letting Jake Tapper tell you what to think. You'll be much happier that way.


Who's Jake Tapper?

Rainmaker
02-14-2017, 07:11 PM
Who's Jake Tapper?

There's hope for you yet.

garhkal
02-14-2017, 07:15 PM
For one, it's illegal for civilians/non-government officials to discuss official business with foreign governments. Of course it happens all the time and is no big deal. Jimmy Carter, Bill Clinton, and all sorts of people do it once they're no longer in office.

Plus he supposedly went and had DINNER with Putin and some of his cronies, which was also a big no-no..
Though to me his lying is what did him in.
NOW WHY is it though the media went after him like a hungry lion on a fresh slab of beef, but could NEVER bring itself to call out Obama's lying?

Mjölnir
02-14-2017, 08:11 PM
Plus he supposedly went and had DINNER with Putin and some of his cronies, which was also a big no-no..
Though to me his lying is what did him in.
NOW WHY is it though the media went after him like a hungry lion on a fresh slab of beef, but could NEVER bring itself to call out Obama's lying?

Having dinner would not be prohibited, discussing official US Government business while not an official of the US Government at that dinner would be.

Yes, the lying did him in. It was a "trust issue". According to reports, he did not offer his resignation, it was asked for (You're fired).

garhkal
02-15-2017, 04:38 AM
Having dinner would not be prohibited, discussing official US Government business while not an official of the US Government at that dinner would be.

Not technically. If that 'dinner' is being paid for it could be seen as receiving a 'gift'..


Yes, the lying did him in. It was a "trust issue". According to reports, he did not offer his resignation, it was asked for (You're fired).

But also, why is no one (other than trump) wondering WHY someone was recorded and HOW that recording got leaked to the press? And why is it we are seeing ALL THESE LEAKS NOW, but no where near as much under Obama?

Mjölnir
02-15-2017, 07:22 AM
Not technically. If that 'dinner' is being paid for it could be seen as receiving a 'gift'..

At the time of he dinner he was a private citizen, not yet a government official ... he could accept all the gifts he wants.


But also, why is no one (other than trump) wondering WHY someone was recorded and HOW that recording got leaked to the press? And why is it we are seeing ALL THESE LEAKS NOW, but no where near as much under Obama?

1. Flynn was on the phone to the Russian ambassador whose is (according to news) tasked for collection. It required a waiver to retain Flynn being copied as part of that conversation (since Flynn is a US citizen), such a waiver would be normal for a high profile foreign target like a diplomat etc. I am not surprised at all that the conversation was intercepted ... no one should be.

2. The leak of Flynn's conversation with the Russian ambassador (a product of Communications Intelligence), regardless of content / allusion to or evidence of illegal activity by Flynn is a violation of law -- Specifically Title 18 sec 798.

3. This is not new. I googled "Obama Administration Leaks", the #2 item is this from Breitbart:
http://www.breitbart.com/national-security/2014/05/27/5-times-the-obama-admin-leaked-crucial-national-security-information/

Most of the hits deal with Flynn (new news), filter those out and you will see plenty of articles on leaks of classified data from the previous administration.

BT BT

That Flynn was talking to the Russian ambassador about sanctions against Russia the day that the Obama announced those sanctions (which is a violation of law) after being named the prospective National Security Advisor, honestly makes me wonder about LTG Flynn; am sure he is a fine man, obviously is intelligent etc. but don't see how a person in that position could not know he was doing something that was prohibited. Combine that with him doing it on the phone -- he was a career intelligence officer, how he could not have known that conversation would be intercepted is beyond me. Again, am sure he is a good man, but this really makes me wonder if his judgment is just piss poor, was he truly ignorant of what he was doing and that he was so likely to get caught doing it, or was it hubris?

The source of the leak should be looked at, leaking of intelligence data is a serious issue. Apparently the FBI had started discussing Flynn's security issues with Administration officials weeks ago, which led to “The evolving and eroding level of trust as a result of this situation in a series of other questionable instances is what led the president to ask for general Flynn’s resignation.” Flynn was making mistakes, how we found out about a real serious one is a violation of law, but doesn't change that he lost of the trust of the President. It also doesn't help that it helped the President's critics who argue that the Russia-Boogieman is too close to President Trump. If there was a group of Obama administration hold-overs trying to do him in ... he made it all too easy, he shot himself in the foot, then gave them the gun so they could finish the job.

sandsjames
02-16-2017, 12:01 PM
Guess foreign policy isn't what you thought it was, Mr. President. Within one week you change your views on both the "One China" policy AND in the Middle East on the "Two State" option. Glad to see you stand strong in support of your views...well...your views from a week ago anyway.

Mjölnir
02-17-2017, 10:50 PM
So the intel community should be able to just leak what it wants, without ramifications?

No, you are just noticing it more because it is harming the guy you like more.


So the intel community should be able to just leak what it wants, without ramifications?

Absolutely not. The IC isn't orchestrating the leaking, a few individuals. Now. remember the Russian hacking of the DNC and Clinton emails ... and people saying it didn't matter but that the content was important ... is that not true now?

Examine the content, hold accountable folks who violate the law either by leaking, or by what was uncovered by the leak (if it is admissible.) I keep seeing people saying that the conversations with LTG Flynn and the Russian ambassador were illegal ... they weren't, Flynn (a US citizen) wasn't the target, he called the target ... there was a waiver applied because the target is a high priority target and regardless of who the US citizen was, traffic to that target will get retained.

Rainmaker
02-18-2017, 03:01 AM
Flynn (a US citizen) wasn't the target, he called the target ...

there was a waiver applied because the target is a high priority target and regardless of who the US citizen was, traffic to that target will get retained.

Sure intercepts of U.S. officials and citizens can get retained (likely classified as SAP).

Not be widely circulated in the government to be released by ‘Anonymous intelligence officials’ to Jeff Bezos’ fish-wrapper suggesting specifics of “the transcript” with NO PROOF whatsoever offered.

and if there’s alleged wrong doings, let’s see it. Hell,Why not? They’ve already compromised the methods.

Rainmaker
02-18-2017, 03:51 AM
remember the Russian hacking of the DNC and Clinton emails ... and people saying it didn't matter but that the content was important ... is that not true now?

What? Am I reading this right?

Please tell me that a Cyber officer’s not actually trying to make an equivalence of this?!

The Secretary of State’s violating government cyber security policy by putting her own official email at risk, where it gets hacked by 3rd party intermediaries and the DNC server either getting hacked or emails leaked (Seth Rich?)..........

........ is not the same as our own American IC professionals (bordering on treason and sedition) by intentionally leaking SAP details to the press, in order to try & undermine the people's duly elected President of the United States.

If they don’t have enough to report the findings through the proper channels for investigation, before they go to the press....

Then what the good are they? That mere fact alone tells you everything you need to know about this shit show

garhkal
02-18-2017, 06:15 AM
Whether it's right or wrong, it's happening...and it's happening because Trump showed zero respect to the agencies around him prior to, or after, his inauguration.


Aren't THEY the ones who should be showing respect to him?
And just cause they are happening, right or wrong, does NOT make it the right thing to do.
Rapes happen, right or wrong, doesn't mean we should keep allowing them to happen, does it.



Most of the workers, down in the Trenches actually doing the heavy lifting, or putting themselves in harm's way, are patriots that are with TRUMP.

The problem comes in with the thousands of empty suits entrenched in the beltway....... Which, I bet if you pulled the voting records 90% of them voted for HRC .

And it's not just "Obama holdovers" either.

There's a lot of parasites put in place by Bush and Clinton before him.

They have dual-loyalties & They'll resist any efforts at reigning them in, or changing direction away from this insane foreign policy and move in the direction, that the majority of the public wants to see our country go.


Which is why i felt trump should have fired the LOT OF THEM.

Mjölnir
02-18-2017, 12:55 PM
Sure intercepts of U.S. officials and citizens can get retained (likely classified as SAP).

Not be widely circulated in the government to be released by ‘Anonymous intelligence officials’ to Jeff Bezos’ fish-wrapper suggesting specifics of “the transcript” with NO PROOF whatsoever offered.

and if there’s alleged wrong doings, let’s see it. Hell,Why not? They’ve already compromised the methods.

Whoever leaked that data, for whatever reason violated Title 18 sec 798.

I have seen nothing that how's Flynn violated the Logan Act, he probably did not. He misled his boss about it though ... Boss no longer trusted his judgment, can't blame him for that.

Mjölnir
02-18-2017, 01:07 PM
What? Am I reading this right?

Please tell me that a Cyber officer’s not actually trying to make an equivalence of this?!

The Secretary of State’s violating government cyber security policy by putting her own official email at risk, where it gets hacked by 3rd party intermediaries and the DNC server either getting hacked or emails leaked (Seth Rich?)..........

........ is not the same as our own American IC professionals (bordering on treason and sedition) by intentionally leaking SAP details to the press, in order to try & undermine the people's duly elected President of the United States.

If they don’t have enough to report the findings through the proper channels for investigation, before they go to the press....

Then what the good are they? That mere fact alone tells you everything you need to know about this shit show

You are not reading it right ... Am not talking about her private server.

When the DNC and Podesta got their emails hacked, the left made issue that they data was illegally obtained, the right (supporters of Trump) acknowledged it but said the content (which so far has not been proven illegal ... Just shady) revealed by the illegal hack was important.

Now that illegal activity has shown that Flynn had contacted Russian officials (for what reason who knows), and misled (lied ... He lied) to VPOTUS & POTUS about that, is that also not important?

As far as using proper channels, whoever leaked that data should have & should be held accountable for the leaking. But the FBI was made aware and briefed the incoming administration about it. It later made the news and VPOTUS talked to Flynn ... FLYNN LI..... "Inadvertently misled" VPOTUS about it (probably unaware he had been recorded as part of routine collection on the Russian ambassador). At some afterward the leaker contacted the press and released more details and the metadata, which is wrong.

There is not a 'moral equivelancy' between the Clinton server and Flynn ... But if you don't care about how the data from the DNC & Pdesta was made public (violating the law) but do about Flynn (admittedly the more serious because it is from someone with a clearance), you are being hypocritical.


•Late December: Flynn, a former lieutenant general who had been selected as Trump's national security adviser, holds a phone call with Russia's ambassador to the United States, Sergey Kislyak. Despite Flynn's later denials, the two of them discuss sanctions and the possibility of relieving them once Trump is president — this despite the Obama administration preparing new sanctions for Russia's alleged meddling in the 2016 election. Intelligence officials notify the Trump transition team.
•Jan. 12: For the first time, Flynn's talks with the Russian ambassador are reported by Post columnist David Ignatius. Few details are known.
•Jan. 14: Flynn assures Pence, who was then the vice president-elect, that the two of them didn't discuss sanctions, according to Pence.
•Jan. 15: Pence tells “Fox News Sunday”: “I talked to General Flynn yesterday, and the conversations that took place at that time were not in any way related to the new U.S. sanctions against Russia or the expulsion of diplomats.”
•Late January: Acting Attorney General Sally Yates, who would later be relieved of her duties by Trump because she declined to defend his travel ban, informs the White House counsel of Flynn's misleading statements and warns that they were so egregious that he could open himself up to Russian blackmail, given Russia knew he had mischaracterized the call to his superiors. The White House does not amend its false statements.
•Feb. 8: In an interview with The Post that would be published the following day, Flynn categorically denies having discussed sanctions with the Russian ambassador.
•Feb. 9: The Post reports that Flynn did discuss sanctions with the Russian ambassador. In response, a spokesperson amends Flynn's denial, saying that he “indicated that while he had no recollection of discussing sanctions, he couldn’t be certain that the topic never came up.”
•Feb. 10: Trump says in brief comments aboard Air Force One that he is unaware of the reports but that he will “look into” it.
•Around 5 p.m. Monday: Conway says the White House has “full confidence” in Flynn and seemed to excuse him for having forgotten that he discussed sanctions with the Russian ambassador.
•Shortly after 5 p.m. Monday: Spicer issues a statement. “The president is evaluating the situation,” it said. “He's speaking to the vice president relative to the conversation the vice president had with Gen. Flynn, and also speaking to various other people about what he considers the single most important subject there is: our national security.”
•8 p.m. Monday: The Post reports that the Justice Department had told the White House last month “that Flynn had so mischaracterized his communications with the Russian diplomat that he might be vulnerable to blackmail by Moscow.”
•Shortly before 11 p.m. Monday: Flynn resigns.

Mjölnir
02-18-2017, 01:17 PM
Aren't THEY the ones who should be showing respect to him?

I am a LCDR & XO, do you think if I bad mouthed my Sailors to their peers, on the news etc. that they will fully support / respect me? They will likely salute, call me sir (more likely call me LCDR vice Sir though) as minimally necessary and keep their heads low and avoid me. They will do what they have to minimally do ... No more. Respect is a two way street, DJT is not required to show respect to a civil servant ... But should not expect blind adulation from them just because.


Which is why i felt trump should have fired the LOT OF THEM.

On what grounds? There is no political or partisan loyalty test for a civil servant; for a political appointee it is different. If they aren't doing their job that is one thing, firing them because they disagree with him? Too 1984ish for me.

I don't like nor am I comparing President Trump to Hitler, but study your history. In the late 30s Hitler changed the military oath for German forces to swear loyalty to him ... Not Germany.

Rainmaker
02-18-2017, 06:02 PM
. , you are being hypocritical.

We can read the Wapo “fact-checker” Glenn Kessler’s timeline of events.......... But, its’ still just "suggested" by "anonymous US intelligence sources".

So it doesn’t mean shit. If there's wrongdoing let's see it.


And In case you didn’t know......... Kessler is the same biased HACK that fell all over himself to discredit DIA’s analysis, that the Obama administration’s policy (of training and-equipping “moderate rebels” to overthrow Assad in Syria) was actually strengthening ISIS’ hand. Go figure.

Hell, Rainmaker’d bet his bottom $, that more than 1/2 of them probably JOINED ISIS.

What do you think the reaction from the American people, will be when it turns out that the self-appointed 'Gatekeeper’s' at the head of the IC, knowingly stood by and ALLOWED this shit to happen?

There's your motive for these Criminals wanting to push General Flynn out.

Al-Jazeera: “You are basically saying that even in government at the time you knew these groups were around, you saw this analysis, and you were arguing against it, but who wasn’t listening?

Flynn: I think the administration.

Al-Jazeera: So the administration turned a blind eye to your analysis?

Flynn: I don’t know that they turned a blind eye, I think it was a decision. I think it was a willful decision

Al-Jazeera: A willful decision to support an insurgency that had Salafists, Al Qaeda and the Muslim Brotherhood?

Flynn: It was a willful decision to do what they’re doing.

What these DC fat-cats/Prog-turds don't realize (yet) is that this is just a speed bump in the road to their eventual arrest.

There are plenty more "Flynn's" waiting in the wings. Next man up.

Rainmaker
02-18-2017, 06:41 PM
There is not a 'moral equivelancy' between the Clinton server and Flynn ... But if you don't care about how the data from the DNC & Pdesta was made public (violating the law) but do about Flynn (admittedly the more serious because it is from someone with a clearance), you are being hypocritical.


there’s no equivalency Period...... between leaks about HRC (either hacked by foreign entities from her unsecured personal server or leaked from the DNC itself ) and then getting published in their entirety (on Wiki-Leaks) with clear evidence of her multiple felonies and treasonous ties to Foreign governments for all the world to see..........

........ and this case where we have American Criminals who think of themselves as Gatekeepers and are sworn to protect classified information, leak details to the media to “suggest” wrong-doing with no verifiable details being provided whatsoever, for the Public to be able to make an informed decision for themselves.

Mjölnir
02-18-2017, 08:13 PM
You can post the Wapo “fact-checker” Glenn Kessler’s timeline of events all you want.......... But, its’ still just "suggested" by "anonymous US intelligence sources".

So it doesn’t mean shit. If there's wrongdoing let's see it.

There needn't be wrong doing for the President to fire him, just lose his trust -- which Flynn did. Had Flynn not lied he likely would still have the job. Most of the above timeline has been stated by Vice President Pence ... the rest is in the media ... has the VP been lying?

LTG Flynn had a long, good career in the Army, then he has gotten fired by two successive presidents with widely different ideologies ... somewhere his judgement seems to have gotten fouled up.

Mjölnir
02-18-2017, 08:19 PM
there’s no equivalence WHATSOEVER between leaks about HRC (either hacked by foreign entities from an unsecured personal server or leaked from within the DNC itself ) and being published in their entirety (on Wiki-Leaks) with clear evidence of her multiple felonies and treasonous ties to Foreign governments for all the world to see..........

........ and this case where Criminals who think of themselves as America's Gatekeepers and are sworn to protect classified information, leak details to the media to “suggest” wrong-doing with no actual details being provided whatsoever for the Public to be able to make an informed decision for themselves.

Again ... you are willing to accept someone breaking the law when it harms someone you don't like, but not when it harms someone you like.

The leaks were illegal ... no doubt, but exposed an incredible lack of judgement and later a lack of honesty by LTG Flynn.

Rainmaker
02-18-2017, 08:25 PM
Again ... you are willing to accept someone breaking the law when it harms someone you don't like, but not when it harms someone you like.

The leaks were illegal ... no doubt, but exposed an incredible lack of judgement and later a lack of honesty by LTG Flynn.

You'll come on here and accept Clapper's perjuring himself, under oath and before Congress & the world. And then you'll attack Flynn's judgement and honesty. talk about my hypocrisy....


LTG Flynn had a long, good career in the Army, then he has gotten fired by two successive presidents with widely different ideologies ... somewhere his judgement seems to have gotten fouled up.

Those Obama sycophants might not want to start celebrating too much just yet. I'll bet they haven't seen the last of Mike Flynn.

garhkal
02-18-2017, 08:34 PM
I am a LCDR & XO, do you think if I bad mouthed my Sailors to their peers, on the news etc. that they will fully support / respect me? They will likely salute, call me sir (more likely call me LCDR vice Sir though) as minimally necessary and keep their heads low and avoid me. They will do what they have to minimally do ... No more. Respect is a two way street, DJT is not required to show respect to a civil servant ... But should not expect blind adulation from them just because.

And like in the mil, you are always told "even if you don't like the person, SHOW THE RESPECT earned by the Stripes/rank.." Which is what these people are not doing.

Rainmaker
02-18-2017, 08:39 PM
“There is nothing the political establishment will not do, and no lie they will not tell, to hold on to their prestige and power at your expense. The Washington establishment, and the financial and media corporations that fund it, exists for only one reason: to protect and enrich itself. This is a crossroads in the history of our civilization that will determine whether or not We The People reclaim control over our government. The political establishment that is trying everything to stop us, is the same group responsible for our disastrous trade deals, massive illegal immigration, and economic and foreign policies that have bled this country dry.

“The political establishment has brought about the destruction of our factories and our jobs, as they flee to Mexico, China and other countries throughout the world. It’s a global power structure that is responsible for the economic decisions that have robbed our working class, stripped our country of its wealth, and put that money into the pockets of a handful of large corporations and political entities.” Donald J Trump

sandsjames
02-18-2017, 09:19 PM
And like in the mil, you are always told "even if you don't like the person, SHOW THE RESPECT earned by the Stripes/rank.." Which is what these people are not doing.

Are you claiming that you've never disrespected someone in your chain of command?

Mjölnir
02-18-2017, 10:40 PM
You'll come on here and accept Clapper's perjuring himself, under oath and before Congress & the world. And then you'll attack Flynn's judgement and honesty. talk about my hypocrisy....

I said that technically Clapper didn't commit perjury ... but that I definitely didn't think he was being forthright, that isn't accepting it ... but understanding what was actually said, and wht the rules and regs actually say. But you are avoiding that you are okay with leaking if it harms someone you don't like, don't like it when it is someone you do.

And yes, I think LTG Flynn showed EXTREMELY poor judgement ... because we should believe that for someone exercising good judgement:

1. A career Army intelligence officer (3-star) and former head of the DIA did not think that the Russian Ambassador would be tasked for SIGINT collection and that he may end up getting copied as collateral collection -- poor judgement or poor intelligence officer tradecraft / knowledge.

2. A retired 3-star General and soon to be National Security Advisor could not remember that he talked to the Russian Ambassador about sanctions -- poor memory, maybe selective memory.

3. That the National Security Advisor was asked by the Vice President about this, told one version of the story, then when the leaks intensified had to revise his story. So he was dishonest ... he lied.

Had LTG Flynn not lied, I think President Trump likely would have kept him around. According to the FBI they do not plan to pursue charges against him ... so whatever poor judgement he exercised in the beginning was minor ... but the lie and attempt to cover up the dishonesty did him in. I still respect him, but less than I did before ... he showed particularly bad judgement in the last 2 months, tie that to his removal as the head of DIA ... I do think his judgement is not what it may have been.


Those Obama sycophants might not want to start celebrating too much just yet. I'll bet they haven't seen the last of Mike Flynn.

Probably not ... but after being fired by two Presidents I don't think he will get back into government anytime soon ... and after saying he was a scapegoat in this case (for the Administration) I don't know that Trump will be calling him either.

Mjölnir
02-18-2017, 10:47 PM
And like in the mil, you are always told "even if you don't like the person, SHOW THE RESPECT earned by the Stripes/rank.." Which is what these people are not doing.

I think the vast ... VAST majority are showing him the appropriate / required courtesy, but are also not effected by Art 88 (Contempt Toward Officials) the same way military personnel would be.

A couple people leaking information is far from warranting firing "the lot" of civil servants in the IC.

Rainmaker
02-19-2017, 05:20 AM
1. A career Army intelligence officer (3-star) and former head of the DIA did not think that the Russian Ambassador would be tasked for SIGINT collection and that he may end up getting copied as collateral collection -- poor judgement or poor intelligence officer tradecraft / knowledge.

You keep repeating this. But, It's just speculation. And foolish speculation at that.

Because, Flynn’s forgotten more about methods of collection, than you or I will ever know.

Surely, He knew his phone was tapped.

He also knew that his information was required to be protected (by the handful of people that would have had access to it) and not released to Jeff Bazos....... All of which should make identifying the leak... a simple process of elimination.



I still respect him, but less than I did before

Well, that's unfortunate. But, the General doesn't really need your respect. Because, he's earned plenty of it already.

So, maybe you can reserve yours for the Brennans of the world, that vote for the Communist party, speak in Arabic about the beauty of Salafist Islam, overlook the 9-11 hijackers under his nose, and refuses to swear the oath on our Holy Bible



tie that to his removal as the head of DIA . I do think his judgement is not what it may have been.

Getting pushed out of DIA because you tried to turn it into an actual useful agency that supports war-fighters, instead of a useless bureaucracy aimed at feathering the nest of a bunch of lazy ass civilians executives, who stand by and say nothing, while ISIS metastasizes on their watch..... is a badge of honor.




and after saying he was a scapegoat in this case (for the Administration) I don't know that Trump will be calling him either.

Might be time to turn off the fake news, and consider some independent media yourself, Commander.

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/319401-new-york-times-newsmax-fall-victim-to-fake-flynn-twitter-account

garhkal
02-19-2017, 06:26 AM
Are you claiming that you've never disrespected someone in your chain of command?

Not when they were in uniform... Out of it yes.. When i was out of uniform (off duty) you betcha..

Mjölnir
02-19-2017, 10:23 AM
You keep repeating this. But, It's just speculation. And foolish speculation at that.

Because, Flynn’s forgotten more about methods of collection, than you or I will ever know.

Surely, He knew his phone was tapped.

He also knew that his information was required to be protected (by the handful of people that would have had access to it) and not released to Jeff Bazos....... All of which should make identifying the leak... a simple process of elimination.

Maybe he has forgotten more than I will ever know ... maybe he forgot something that he should have remembered that would have kept him from being fired.

And again, I think the leaking is wrong, should be punished etc. When he got caught, had he been honest he would likely still have the job. "Surely he knew that phone was tapped", then why did he lie to VPOTUS about it?

Yes, those calls should have been protected, they weren't ... so while the contents may not be admissable in court they do prove his contact with Russian officials, which he lied about, and then VPOTUS got on the Sunday talk shows and backed him up on ... then Flynn was forced to come clean when caught in the lie.

And you thinking this is a simple process of elimination shows that you don't understand how this works.


Well, that's unfortunate. But, the General doesn't really need your respect. Because, he's earned plenty of it already.

He likely doesn't need my respect, he would have more of it regardless of that ... if he had not been dishonest.

For me, honesty is a big deal, and FLYNN LIED ABOUT THIS ... Oddly ... It seems he did not need to, so why? Just as a CYA? To cover something else? Don't know ... Has he Been willing to be dishonest in the past when he didn't need to be? Don't know ... But him willing to be dishonest about something which looks to have been minor at this point in his life honestly suggests that this would not be the first time. I really do expect a level of honesty from someone with his background & (former) position that is beyond reproach. Being that President Trump has brought in so many former military leaders to credibility to his administration where he (Trump) lacks background and experience, Flynn fell short by a simple lie. Flynn was supposed to help the administration, instead Flynn harmed the administration by allowing the 'Russia boogie man' issue to fester along for Trump.


So, maybe you can reserve yours for the Brennans of the world, that vote for the Communist party, speak in Arabic about the beauty of Salafist Islam, overlook the 9-11 hijackers under his nose, and refuses to swear the oath on our Holy Bible

And because I have lost respect for Flynn, I must support communists, very binary and incorrect thinking on your part ...


Getting pushed out of DIA because you tried to turn it into an actual useful agency that supports war-fighters, instead of a useless bureaucracy aimed at feathering the nest of a bunch of lazy ass civilians executives, who stand by and say nothing, while ISIS metastasizes on their watch..... is a badge of honor.

He could have transformed DIA and not taken actions that eroded the workplace and created a shitty climate, which is what got him fired there.


Might be time to turn off the fake news, and consider some independent media yourself, Commander.

http://thehill.com/homenews/media/319401-new-york-times-newsmax-fall-victim-to-fake-flynn-twitter-account

I do like The Hill, pretty sure I was citing the fake Twitter account. Good to se you now agree there is fake news, when the cries of fake news were coming from the left you said fake news was ... Fake.

I understand you have worked for Flynn, maybe time to admit that someone you respect made a big error, lied to VPOTUS and POTUS and got rightly fired over it. The other side of the argument is that POTUS fired him out of pressure to placate, which is what Trump was / is supposed to be able. Which is it?

Rainmaker
02-19-2017, 06:56 PM
And you thinking this is a simple process of elimination shows that you don't understand how this works.

Well. Rainmaker's just a real-estate broker. So, FWIW......

I'd suspect only a few people would've been read into a program such as that....... The best CI investigators in the world, should be able to start back and through aggressive interrogation, they could potentially flush it out......... I reckon whoever did it, would've first cast it as wide as possible within the government, before it wound up in Wapo's hands. Agree that makes the task harder........ But, I'm no expert. So, you tell me, what I've missed?

Rainmaker
02-19-2017, 07:28 PM
pretty sure I was citing the fake Twitter account.

Ok. didn't realize you were being sarcastic, and thought maybe you were unknowingly repeating the NY Times' lie (that Mike Flynn had said that he was scapegoated).


when the cries of fake news were coming from the left you said fake news was ... Fake.

What I said is that "Fake news" was term made up by the dinosaur media to try and discredit all sources of independent media (that weren't 100% lockstep in the tank for HRC).

But, I am enjoying watching the libtard bastards, getting hung by their own petard (as their silly propaganda meme blows up in their own faces).

Mjölnir
03-12-2017, 02:28 PM
This gets more and more ... odd. At least it isn't Russia.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/10/us/politics/michael-flynn-turkey.html


Michael Flynn Was Paid to Represent Turkey’s Interests During Trump Campaign

WASHINGTON — The candidate he was advising last fall was running on a platform of America First. The client he was working for last fall was paying him more than $500,000 to put Turkey first.

Michael T. Flynn, who went from the campaign trail to the White House as President Trump’s first national security adviser, filed papers this week acknowledging that he worked as a foreign agent last year representing the interests of the Turkish government in a dispute with the United States.

His surprising admission, coming more than four months after the election, raised further questions about the rise and fall of a presidential confidant who was forced to resign after 24 days in office for withholding the full story of his communications with Russia’s ambassador. Even now, out of government and out of favor, Mr. Flynn and his contact with foreign figures presented a new headache for a White House eager to move on.

Mr. Flynn, a retired Army lieutenant general, registered as a lobbyist last year but did not file papers with the Justice Department registering as a foreign agent, providing a fuller understanding of his role, until Tuesday. While he did not work directly for the Turkish government, the firm that hired him, Inovo, is owned by a Turkish-American businessman with links to leaders in Ankara and asked him to work on an issue important to the government.

The White House said that Mr. Trump did not know that Mr. Flynn was acting as a foreign agent when Mr. Trump appointed him national security adviser, a position that gave him access to classified meetings and materials. But a person briefed on the matter, who insisted on anonymity to describe private conversations, said Mr. Flynn’s lawyer contacted a lawyer for Mr. Trump’s transition team before the inauguration to ask whether Mr. Flynn should register given his work for Inovo.

The transition lawyer offered no advice, saying it was up to Mr. Flynn. After the inauguration, the person said, Mr. Flynn and his lawyer each raised it again with a White House lawyer, only to be told once more it was up to him. Mr. Flynn had no comment on Friday. His lawyer wrote the Justice Department that Mr. Flynn decided to register retroactively “to eliminate any potential doubt.”

The White House said its lawyer considered it a private decision and saw no reason to intervene. “It’s not a question of raising a red flag,” said Sean Spicer, the White House press secretary. “It’s a question of whether or not they gave him the advice that they are supposed to, which is it is not up to them to make decisions as to what you need to do or not do.”

Vice President Mike Pence, who was upset that Mr. Flynn had misled him about the conversation with the Russian ambassador that got him dismissed, seemed less forgiving. News reports on the matter were “the first I heard of it,” the vice president said during an interview on Fox News Thursday night, “and I think it is an affirmation of the president’s decision to ask General Flynn to resign.”

Throughout the campaign, Mr. Flynn positioned himself as someone willing to call out a national security establishment that was too corrupt to keep America safe. When former colleagues criticized him for becoming overtly partisan, he shot back by castigating them for using their titles to enrich themselves by joining corporate boards.

In an interview in October, Mr. Flynn insisted that he had eschewed financial rewards to follow his political convictions and join the Trump campaign. “I would love to be making some money,” he said. “I wish I could stop what I’m doing.”

On behalf of his firm, the Flynn Intel Group, Mr. Flynn signed a contract on Aug. 9 with Inovo, a Dutch firm owned by Ekim Alptekin, the chairman of the Turkish-American Business Council. Mr. Flynn’s firm was to receive $600,000 for 90 days of work. His initial registration as a lobbyist last year indicated he would receive less than $5,000 for lobbying, although that presumably indicates that he did not define most of the services he would provide Mr. Alptekin as lobbying under the law.

Mr. Alptekin has links to the government of Turkey’s president, Recep Tayyip Erdogan, which has engaged in a political crackdown after surviving a military coup attempt in July. In documents disclosed by the anti-secrecy group WikiLeaks, Mr. Alptekin emailed frequently with Egemen Bagis, the former Turkish minister for European Union affairs. In one email in 2013, Mr. Alptekin sent an article from The Wall Street Journal to Mr. Bagis, who then forwarded it to Berat Albayrak, Mr. Erdogan’s son-in-law and now the country’s energy minister.

Mr. Flynn was assigned to investigate Fethullah Gulen, a Turkish cleric who lives in Pennsylvania and was blamed by Mr. Erdogan for helping instigate the failed coup. Mr. Erdogan has demanded the United States extradite Mr. Gulen, which the Obama administration refused to do.

The forms filed this week indicate that Mr. Flynn’s firm was “to perform investigative research” on Mr. Gulen and “develop a short film piece on the results of its investigation.” In the end, the video was never completed, and Mr. Flynn’s firm received $530,000 before the contract terminated in November. But on Election Day, Mr. Flynn published an op-ed article in The Hill, a newspaper serving Congress, calling Mr. Gulen “a shady Islamic mullah” and “radical Islamist.”

“To professionals in the intelligence community, the stamp of terror is all over Mullah Gulen’s statements,” he wrote. “Gulen’s vast global network has all the right markings to fit the description of a dangerous sleeper terror network. From Turkey’s point of view, Washington is harboring Turkey’s Osama bin Laden.”

The forms said Mr. Flynn decided to write the piece “on his own initiative” and not at Inovo’s request, although they said that he shared a draft of it with Inovo before it was published. The Hill appended a note to the online version of the piece after this week’s filing: “Neither General Flynn nor his representatives disclosed this information when the essay was submitted.”

During the course of the work, Mr. Alptekin introduced Mr. Flynn to Foreign Minister Mevlut Cavusoglu and Mr. Albayrak, the president’s son-in-law, in New York on Sept. 19, the forms said.

In a letter to the Justice Department this week, Mr. Flynn’s lawyer said that he did not initially register as a foreign agent because the firm that hired him was not a foreign government. But the lawyer, Robert K. Kelner, said Mr. Flynn had decided to register after the fact because “the engagement could be construed to have principally benefited the Republic of Turkey.”

This week, Mr. Alptekin disputed the notion that he hired Mr. Flynn to influence the next president. “When I engaged Flynn Co. polls showed 85% likelihood of Hillary winning,” he wrote on Twitter after the filings. “If intention was to lobby USG I would have hired Podesta like Gulen,” he added, referring to the United States government and Tony Podesta, a prominent Washington lobbyist and brother of John D. Podesta, who was Mrs. Clinton’s campaign chairman.

But the filings this week contradict past assertions by Mr. Alptekin, who told The New York Times in an interview after the November election that the contract with Mr. Flynn was worth “tens of thousands of dollars, not hundreds of thousands of dollars.” In the same interview, he said that Mr. Flynn “never consulted with me” about the op-ed article in The Hill and that he “would have advised against it.”

Mr. Alptekin repeated the latter assertion even after the filings this week. “For the record: nobody remotely linked to the Gov. of Turkey knew about Gen. Flynn’s article in advance and I wasn’t consulted either,” he wrote on Twitter.

Mr. Flynn opened the Flynn Intel Group in October 2014, two months after he was forced out as director of the Defense Intelligence Agency. The business was opaque, making little public, not even an address. When a reporter went looking for it last fall, he tracked it down to an Alexandria, Va., office building operating out of the nondescript headquarters of another firm, called the White Canvas Group.

In the interview in October, Mr. Flynn offered only a vague description of the firm. He said he had clients in Japan and the Middle East and that he worked on cybertraining, aviation operations and energy business.

The firm was shuttered after the election when Mr. Flynn was headed for the White House.

Rainmaker
03-13-2017, 01:25 AM
This gets more and more ... odd. At least it isn't Russia.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/10/us/politics/michael-flynn-turkey.html

The Clinton sycophants are probably worried that Gen. Flynn's getting ready to blow the lid off their role in the failed Gulen/ Muslim Brotherhood coup last fall in Turkey.

So, now they're trying to (anonymously) get out in front of it with this " He's a Turkish 'foreign agent'" bullshit.

But, Turkey's yet another example of a once stable, European-friendly country, that's now at risk of going hard core Islamic, thanks to Hussein Obama's disastrous foreign policy of US sponsorship of Salafi Jihadist terrorist groups, which was also publicly called out (along with Obama's incompetence) by Flynn.

Mjölnir
03-13-2017, 09:04 AM
The Clinton sycophants are probably worried that Gen. Flynn's getting ready to blow the lid off their role in the failed Gulen/ Muslim Brotherhood coup last fall in Turkey.

So, now they're trying to (anonymously) get out in front of it with this " He's a Turkish 'foreign agent'" bullshit.

LTG Flynn registered himself, don't know that I would call it 'bullshit'. Now, the term 'agent' is just a legal one ... I don't believe at all he was selling the US down the river for personal gain.

What I do find concerning is that (again) per the VPOTUS, the administration (read: POTUS) didn't know about this and that the VPOTUS stated this validated the reasoning to fire Flynn. Sounds like Flynn wasn't lying to his boss(es), but wasn't being entirely forthcoming about what he was doing either.

President Trump has so far shown he is willing to have a fight with the press, with Congress etc. (which I like). He opted out of a fight to keep Flynn around, which frankly is telling about how soured the administration got on him (in a relatively short period of time).

It seems that LTG Flynn may have a habit / pattern of not informing his bosses of what he had been/ was doing. His dismissal from DIA was rumored to have been that he created a chaotic work culture / environment ... I wonder if his pattern of not keeping his bosses informed played into the DIA issue as well.


But, Turkey's yet another example of a once stable, European-friendly country, that's now at risk of going hard core Islamic, thanks to Hussein Obama's disastrous foreign policy of US sponsorship of Salafi Jihadist terrorist groups, which was also publicly called out (along with Obama's incompetence) by Flynn.

The Turkish government has for a long time been friendly to the West, much of the populace (rural ... away from Ankara, Incirlik, Istanbul were not as friendly to the west, some were just skeptical of our intent ... some were outright hostile. I do concur that Turkey has destabilized in the last 8 years, it started before the Obama Administration, just got more momentum as of late.

Rainmaker
03-13-2017, 05:01 PM
LTG Flynn registered himself, don't know that I would call it 'bullshit'.

Rosenberg's article's bullshit because it's written in a way to make it sound, for the Never Trump zombies, as if Gen. Flynn was being directed by a foreign power in the campaign.

It's another intellectually dishonest hit piece and starts out in the very first paragraph by claiming he put Turkey first ahead of America.

Flynn's firm wrote a white paper that said covertly supporting a Muslim Brotherhood coup (aimed at overthrowing Erdogan) in the middle of sectarian civil war in Syria, while Europe's being overwhelmed by "refugees" was not in America's best interest.




What I do find concerning is that (again) per the VPOTUS, the administration (read: POTUS) didn't know about it


Now, the term 'agent' is just a legal one

Anyone who gets appointed to a senior position is required to seek an Ethics Opinion and obviously he did that (twice before) and the Lawyers said he didn't have to disclose it.

Pence not knowing about it's not really surprising. I'm sure they have other stuff to worry about besides 2nd guessing their Lawyers (who already advised the administration, that Flynn was good to go).



this and that the VPOTUS stated this validated the reasoning to fire Flynn. Sounds like Flynn wasn't lying to his boss(es), but wasn't being entirely forthcoming about what he was doing either.

That they then Spun it in the media, to their political advantage ( to say Trump made the right call) is not really surprising either.




His dismissal from DIA was rumored to have been that he created a chaotic work culture / environment ... I wonder if his pattern of not keeping his bosses informed played into the DIA issue as well.

I wonder if Clapper, Vickers, Mullen and Dempsey (and the rest of the Closet Clinton supporters) who stood by and did nothing, while the Pentagon embraced Gay-queen culture and put Diversity stats ahead of Combat readiness, really cared about this country or the well being of our Troops.




I do concur that Turkey has destabilized in the last 8 years, it started before the Obama Administration, just got more momentum as of late.

These Socialist/Globalist/Zionist/ Bilderberg/ CFR/ Bankster/ Soros owned fuckers have been leading us down this road for decades now. & all we've got to show for it is $Trillions wasted, Tens of thousands killed and maimed, ISIS lopping off heads and committing mass genocide of Christians, Millions of civilians displaced, 22 Vets a day committing suicide and still dying waiting to get in the Phoenix VA, All while McShitstain and Miss Lindsey Graham keep pushing policies to double down on this insanity.

Mjölnir
03-13-2017, 06:25 PM
Rosenberg's article's bullshit because it's written in a way to make it sound, for the Never Trump zombies, as if Gen. Flynn was being directed by a foreign power in the campaign.

I didn't take it that way.


It's another intellectually dishonest hit piece and starts out in the very first paragraph by claiming he put Turkey first ahead of America.

Flynn's firm wrote a white paper that said covertly supporting a Muslim Brotherhood coup (aimed at overthrowing Erdogan) in the middle of sectarian civil war in Syria, while Europe's being overwhelmed by "refugees" was not in America's best interest.

I do think there is a slant to the article, the basic facts are pretty clear.


Anyone who gets appointed to a senior position is required to seek an Ethics Opinion and obviously he did that (twice before) and the Lawyers said he didn't have to disclose it.

I read the lawyers advised him (Flynn) he should make a judgment call on if to or not to register. But as far as ...


Pence not knowing about it's not really surprising. I'm sure they have other stuff to worry about besides 2nd guessing their Lawyers (who already advised the administration, that Flynn was good to go).

I am actually really surprised that VPOTUS had not heard about it. I would think that being open and upfront with the boss about involvement with a foreign country (legitimate as it may be) would have been something that the prospective National Security Advisor would find important. It takes 10 seconds to talk about and determine if the boss wants to know more.


That they then Spun it in the media, to their political advantage ( to say Trump made the right call) is not really surprising either.

Do you think POTUS made the wrong decision to fire him?


I wonder if Clapper, Vickers, Mullen and Dempsey (and the rest of the Closet Clinton supporters) who stood by and did nothing, while the Pentagon embraced Gay-queen culture and put Diversity stats ahead of Combat readiness, really cared about this country or the well being of our Troops.

Not sure, but that doesn't change that LTG Flynn seems to have had an issue here, one that caused and continues to cause issues (like a rash) for the Administration.


These Socialist/Globalist/Zionist/ Bilderberg/ CFR/ Bankster/ Soros owned fuckers have been leading us down this road for decades now. & all we've got to show for it is $Trillions wasted, Tens of thousands killed and maimed, ISIS lopping off heads and committing mass genocide of Christians, Millions of civilians displaced, 22 Vets a day committing suicide and still dying waiting to get in the Phoenix VA, All while McShitstain and Miss Lindsey Graham keep pushing policies to double down on this insanity.

Okay, but this doesn't change that LTG Flynn erred ... more than once.

garhkal
03-13-2017, 06:32 PM
The Clinton sycophants are probably worried that Gen. Flynn's getting ready to blow the lid off their role in the failed Gulen/ Muslim Brotherhood coup last fall in Turkey.

So, now they're trying to (anonymously) get out in front of it with this " He's a Turkish 'foreign agent'" bullshit.

But, Turkey's yet another example of a once stable, European-friendly country, that's now at risk of going hard core Islamic, thanks to Hussein Obama's disastrous foreign policy of US sponsorship of Salafi Jihadist terrorist groups, which was also publicly called out (along with Obama's incompetence) by Flynn.

Combined with Putins advisors are claiming several Clinton staffers and white house hopefuls also met with the ambassador during the election run up, JUST LIKE flynn, so why all the hoopla over just him and not them too?!
ALSO several foreign countries donated PLENTY to the Clinton foundation as well, such as Saudi!..

Rainmaker
03-13-2017, 07:00 PM
Combined with Putins advisors are claiming several Clinton staffers and white house hopefuls also met with the ambassador during the election run up, JUST LIKE flynn, so why all the hoopla over just him and not them too?!
ALSO several foreign countries donated PLENTY to the Clinton foundation as well, such as Saudi!..

Exactly. Bill Clinton goes to Moscow and gets paid $600K to give a speech and The Mexican National Carlos Slim's paper doesn't say shit about it.

But, Gen. Flynn gets $5K royalty for a white paper that says everything he's already said publicly and all of a sudden they pen a hit piece citing "anonymous sources" to smear him and insinuate that it was something nefarious.

Mjölnir
03-13-2017, 07:20 PM
Combined with Putins advisors are claiming several Clinton staffers and white house hopefuls also met with the ambassador during the election run up, JUST LIKE flynn, so why all the hoopla over just him and not them too?!
ALSO several foreign countries donated PLENTY to the Clinton foundation as well, such as Saudi!..

Flynn was named as the next National Security Advisor when his meeting took place.


Exactly. Bill Clinton goes to Moscow and gets paid $600K to give a speech and The Mexican National Carlos Slim's paper doesn't say shit about it.

But, Gen. Flynn gets $5K royalty for a white paper that says everything he's already said publicly and all of a sudden they pen a hit piece citing "anonymous sources" to smear him and insinuate that it was something nefarious.

I read Flynn got paid just north of $500k ... not $5k.

Rainmaker
03-13-2017, 08:59 PM
Okay, but this doesn't change that LTG Flynn erred ... more than once

Flynn made a principled decision at DIA , to disclose that the Obama administration was willfully ignoring the Intel advice & therefore allowing the spread of ISIS.

He didn't just sell himself out, in order to land some future position on a corporate board after he retired (like rest of the ass-kissers up there did ). I wouldn't consider that to be "error"


I would think that being open and upfront with the boss about involvement with a foreign country (legitimate as it may be) would have been something that the prospective National Security Advisor would find important. It takes 10 seconds to talk about and determine if the boss wants to know more.

I'm pretty sure Flynn didn't think Mike Pence was his "Boss". Rumor has it he was offered the VP job himself, but turned it down.

& since he reportedly attended every Intel brief with Trump, Maybe he didn't think it was a big deal or maybe Trump already knew?


Do you think POTUS made the wrong decision to fire him?

We don't have any information, and it's all speculation. So, I'm not sure he actually fired him.

This whole thing could've just be done to change the focus.

But, if the only thing that happened is what the anonymous leakers supposedly said, to someone at the Washington Post......

then yeah, I'd say it was probably a mistake because it makes Trump look weak and just emboldens these treasonous fucks to commit more crimes.


I read the lawyers advised him (Flynn) he should make a judgment call on if to or not to register

Yeah. that's called having no opinion, meaning you're not legally required to disclose it.

I'm sure he knew that if he put it out there then the Demo-rats would make a huge deal out of it...... which in hind-sight appears to have been the correct decision.


Not sure, but that doesn't change that LTG Flynn seems to have had an issue here, one that caused and continues to cause issues (like a rash) for the Administration.

Doubt it. The whole "Putin hacked our election" narrative fell flat...... & outside of the DC establishment and the fake news. No one really much cares about it and it just comes across as sour grapes from the losing side.

garhkal
03-14-2017, 04:01 AM
Exactly. Bill Clinton goes to Moscow and gets paid $600K to give a speech and The Mexican National Carlos Slim's paper doesn't say shit about it.

But, Gen. Flynn gets $5K royalty for a white paper that says everything he's already said publicly and all of a sudden they pen a hit piece citing "anonymous sources" to smear him and insinuate that it was something nefarious.

Or Hillary SELLING 20 tons iirc of uranium to them and barely a peep of protest from anyone on the right or in the media.

Mjölnir
03-14-2017, 09:50 AM
Flynn made a principled decision at DIA , to disclose that the Obama administration was willfully ignoring the Intel advice & therefore allowing the spread of ISIS.

He didn't just sell himself out, in order to land some future position on a corporate board after he retired (like rest of the ass-kissers up there did ). I wouldn't consider that to be "error".

He was a good intel officer, could have done more good and effected more change had he not gotten himself fired.


I'm pretty sure Flynn didn't think Mike Pence was his "Boss". Rumor has it he was offered the VP job himself, but turned it down.

& since he reportedly attended every Intel brief with Trump, Maybe he didn't think it was a big deal or maybe Trump already knew?

The role of VPOTUS varies in each Administration. Pence in a way wasn't Flynn's 'boss', based on what I have heard about the Trump Administration, Pence is acting more as the 'boss' than previous VPOTUS's have ... but it seems Flynn also wasn't telling his boss (POTUS) some things he should have ...

Never heard that Flynn was offered the VPOTUS job, if he was and turned it down, Pence would be his senior in the Administration ... regardless if he was offered the job or not.


We don't have any information, and it's all speculation. So, I'm not sure he actually fired him.

This whole thing could've just be done to change the focus.

Maybe. I am taking the Administration at face value that the President asked for his resignation (translates to he got fired).


then yeah, I'd say it was probably a mistake because it makes Trump look weak and just emboldens these treasonous fucks to commit more crimes.

I don't think it makes Trump look weak -- he ID'd a problem and took care of it. I do think the way it played out it looks like Flynn was (combining the contact with Russia that he didn't tell the boss about and the issue with Turkey) at best being a bit shady ... at worst purposefully not being forthcoming with the President.


Yeah. that's called having no opinion, meaning you're not legally required to disclose it.

Legally, no not required. In National level politics not telling your boss there is something that could embarrass / harm the Administration and it's reputation ... not a good idea.


I'm sure he knew that if he put it out there then the Demo-rats would make a huge deal out of it...... which in hind-sight appears to have been the correct decision.

I don't think they could have made much of an issue if it had been disclosed up front.


Doubt it. The whole "Putin hacked our election" narrative fell flat...... & outside of the DC establishment and the fake news. No one really much cares about it and it just comes across as sour grapes from the losing side.

Meh. Russia was toying with influence operations during the election ... that is clear. I don't think it really changed the outcome but that will be impossible to truly gauge ...

Rainmaker
03-14-2017, 06:00 PM
He was a good intel officer, could have done more good and effected more change had he not gotten himself fired.

Would you compromise your integrity by supporting a National level intelligence assessment,that you personally deemed to be manipulated, in order to fit into a false political narrative? Just so you could stay on in a corrupt organization and try to effect positive change in that same organization? Gen. Flynn wouldn't..... and that's why he "got himself fired" (at DIA).....


Russia was toying with influence operations during the election ... that is clear....

& They've done that in every election. As have we (and many other major countries).

Why do you think the DNC initially refused to give the FBI Cyber investigators direct access to their servers, after they were allegedly "hacked by Russia"?

Mjölnir
03-14-2017, 07:30 PM
Would you compromise your integrity by supporting a National level intelligence assessment,that you personally deemed to be manipulated, in order to fit into a false political narrative? Just so you could stay on in a corrupt organization and try to effect positive change in that same organization? Gen. Flynn wouldn't..... and that's why he "got himself fired" (at DIA).....

I think he could have found a way to work with the Administration and been the agent of change he wanted to be from within the organization.


& They've done that in every election. As have we (and many other major countries).

Why do you think the DNC initially refused to give the FBI Cyber investigators direct access to their servers, after they were allegedly "hacked by Russia"?

I am not sure we have had a state actor this blatantly interfere in a US Presidential election. I think the DNC's reluctance was more based on embarrassing things the FBI may have found (& also potentially leaked from the investigation) than the FBI finding the DNC hacked someone.

Mjölnir
12-02-2017, 12:25 PM
Flynn pleads guilty to knowingly making false statements to the FBI:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/michael-flynn-charged-with-making-false-statement-to-the-fbi/2017/12/01/e03a6c48-d6a2-11e7-9461-ba77d604373d_story.html?utm_term=.ee5b88bec326


Former national security adviser Michael Flynn pleaded guilty Friday to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak and, in an ominous sign for the White House, said he is cooperating in the ongoing probe of possible coordination between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin to influence the 2016 election.

When Flynn was forced out of the White House in February, officials said he had misled the administration, including Vice President Pence, about his contacts with Kislyak. But court records and people familiar with the contacts indicated he was acting in consultation with senior Trump transition officials, including President Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, in his dealings with the diplomat.

Mjölnir
12-02-2017, 12:25 PM
Flynn pleads guilty to knowingly making false statements to the FBI:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/michael-flynn-charged-with-making-false-statement-to-the-fbi/2017/12/01/e03a6c48-d6a2-11e7-9461-ba77d604373d_story.html?utm_term=.ee5b88bec326


Former national security adviser Michael Flynn pleaded guilty Friday to lying to the FBI about his contacts with Russian Ambassador Sergey Kislyak and, in an ominous sign for the White House, said he is cooperating in the ongoing probe of possible coordination between the Trump campaign and the Kremlin to influence the 2016 election.

When Flynn was forced out of the White House in February, officials said he had misled the administration, including Vice President Pence, about his contacts with Kislyak. But court records and people familiar with the contacts indicated he was acting in consultation with senior Trump transition officials, including President Trump’s son-in-law, Jared Kushner, in his dealings with the diplomat.

Rainmaker
02-20-2018, 02:26 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/t193931/status/965743442859999232

Mjölnir
02-20-2018, 09:20 AM
https://mobile.twitter.com/t193931/status/965743442859999232

He was fired for misleading VPOTUS, then dinged for lying to the FBI. He pled guilty, now based on lack of collusion allegations wants to withdraw the plea.

I don’t know where the evidence against Flynn was obtained, based on what I had read previously it seemed he wa s in fact communication with officials from Russia during the transition after being tapped as the National Security Advisor which would be normal -- but then lied about it. If argument that the FISA warrants were improperly obtained, I have not read that there was a FISA warrant issued against Flynn but Russian official would be a logical target for collection and any communications with him would be intercepted.

If Flynn was improperly unmasked, he has an argument to throw that evidence out ... which may negate the conviction on evidentiary rules regardless if it is clear he was lying.

There is also the issue of Flynn very clearly have violated DoD regulations regarding involvement with foreign governments by retired officers.

I won't argue that Michael Flynn served his country very honorably for a long time. I also can acknowledge that he failed to follow DoD regulations that he acknowledged and that (as a retired LTG) I would expect him to know (I know ... I am a few rungs lower on the ladder than a LTG) is a bit troubling. If the plea is thrown out at the evidence that he lied, he would likely be able to escape conviction ... but I can easily see that he did it. He would be as innocent as WJC of perjury ... or OJ of murder.

I am interested to see where it goes.