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Bos Mutus
12-13-2016, 03:58 PM
Here are military mantras that, I think, are destructive, untrue, but repeated constantly and assumed to be...add more.



"Perception is reality"

No. Perception is just that, a perception. Reality is reality. People can get all kinds of incorrect perceptions for many reasons...often only in the mind of the perceiver.

Just because you perceive something, does not make is so....but, leadership has often used this mantra to fall back on their lack of supporting evidence of a situation.


"If it ain't documented, it ain't done"

A mantra embraced by the IG and inspection industry around the late 1990s, early 2000s as they tried to get back to a compliance-based program after the Quality Assessment years.

This mantra causes untold hours of administrative work that is entirely self-inflicted by the military organization. It's no longer good enough to spot-check your programs as a supervisor, but you must log your spot-checks to prove you did them...then the log becomes the inspection item instead of the program.

If a program is up to speed...assume the supervisor has been spot-checking it. If documentation is not inherently required in the task, then none should be expected.


How can we trust him with big things if he can't even (insert little thing)"

People can weigh the importance of things and put more effort and attention on things that are more important than others.

Mjölnir
12-13-2016, 04:08 PM
If it ain't raining, we ain't training

Usually heard from someone who doesn't go to the field too often, to them it is camping ... fuck that ... being in the field for a 21 day exercise and it raining 19 of those days ... sucks.

Rainmaker
12-14-2016, 04:18 PM
No. Perception is just that, a perception. Reality is reality. People can get all kinds of incorrect perceptions for many reasons...often only in the mind of the perceiver.

Ahh grasshopper, That's were you went wrong. The phrase "perception is reality" is correct. Because Thoughts Are Things! You must look deeper...



1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=John+1%3A1&version=RSV

Rusty Jones
12-14-2016, 05:00 PM
No. Perception is just that, a perception. Reality is reality. People can get all kinds of incorrect perceptions for many reasons...often only in the mind of the perceiver.

Just because you perceive something, does not make is so....but, leadership has often used this mantra to fall back on their lack of supporting evidence of a situation.

I'm pretty positive that whoever coined this mantra is fully aware of the difference between what is seen and what is actually happening, and isn't trying to say that they're one and the same.

What they're saying is that how something is perceived is going to determine how people react to it.

With the new Air Force's EPR system, you're going to start seeing this (because it happens in the Navy, with its forced distribution EVAL/FITREP system): two different people could be on two totally different levels of performance. One is a bit more humble and modest, and tries to allow his performance to speak for itself. The other guy? His performance is mediocre at best, but he brags about what he does and how he does it. He constantly toots his own horn. He makes himself look like he walks on water. Guess what? Expect this guy to get the "Promote Now" on his EPR. This, of course, results in him getting promoted while the more humble guy does not.

Sure, that the guy who got promoted being the superior performer was the perception. But the perceived performance had very real consequences, because of how people reacted to that perception; while the true performance levels had very little, if any. And that's why it's said that perception is reality.

Rainmaker
12-14-2016, 05:23 PM
I'm pretty positive that whoever coined this mantra

This mantra was actually coined by God. But, lots of people have taken credit for it...... Most notably Plato and Oprah Winfrey.

http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl201/modules/Philosophers/Protagoras/protagoras_plato_knowledge.htm

Bos Mutus
12-14-2016, 06:08 PM
I'm pretty positive that whoever coined this mantra is fully aware of the difference between what is seen and what is actually happening, and isn't trying to say that they're one and the same.

What they're saying is that how something is perceived is going to determine how people react to it.

The original phrase coiner probably did have that understanding, and the phrase is probably originally intended as more of a self-reflection one to pay attention to how your actions may be perceived.

Many folks who repeat the phrase, particularly in the military, do not have that understanding...and use it more as a "if people have a wrong perception of you, then you are wrong....if not of the original thing, then of giving off the perception of it."

SomeRandomGuy
12-14-2016, 07:13 PM
Whomever came up with "Do more with less" is an idiot of epic proportions.

At best, most organizations can continue to do the same with less but almost never do more. If anyone actually believes in that mantra they should go finance a car that costs $600/month while also taking a $200/month pay cut. When they get home, they can just explain to their wife/husband "I know money is tight around here but I really thought we should do more with less so I bought this Corvette"

WILDJOKER5
12-14-2016, 08:11 PM
We have the best a brightest in the AF.

If this was true, they would have gone to college.

garhkal
12-14-2016, 09:23 PM
The original phrase coiner probably did have that understanding, and the phrase is probably originally intended as more of a self-reflection one to pay attention to how your actions may be perceived.

Many folks who repeat the phrase, particularly in the military, do not have that understanding...and use it more as a "if people have a wrong perception of you, then you are wrong....if not of the original thing, then of giving off the perception of it."

And IMO that's why it sucks. you don't NEED to be doing wrong, to be thought of as being wrong. Just someone falsely having the perception of you doing wrong, is all that's needed these days to get in trouble it seems. AND OFTEN even if you PROVE that you are NOT wrong, that's it.. NO 'oops, sorry". No "guess we need to re-educate the one who had the false perception"...

Mjölnir
12-14-2016, 10:44 PM
Just someone falsely having the perception of you doing wrong, is all that's needed these days to get in trouble it seems.

Generally the tipping point is the 'reasonable person standard'. If a 'reasonable person' would perceive the action as wrong/inappropriate ... that is when there is a problem. Every wallflower with heightened sensitivities is not immediately catered to. Admittedly, some people take it too far, by and large that is not the case.

Bos Mutus
12-14-2016, 11:14 PM
"Don't gripe/bitch/complain unless you are also bringing the solution"

Some variation of this is often used by NCOs and SNCOs...a lot of times it's part of your initial introduction to a work center.

It's intended to keep nonproductive whining/complaining to a minimum...but, I dislike it because, if followed, it also ensures only easy problems get brought to your attention.

Hard problems that the person does not have the answer to, but knows its a problem, should be brought up, too...and leaders should want to know about them.

garhkal
12-15-2016, 04:45 AM
Generally the tipping point is the 'reasonable person standard'. If a 'reasonable person' would perceive the action as wrong/inappropriate ... that is when there is a problem. Every wallflower with heightened sensitivities is not immediately catered to. Admittedly, some people take it too far, by and large that is not the case.

That is how its SUPPOSED to work, however all too often i have seen it taken to that extreme.. Such as one case where ONE person complained about music played by another in the office, and when the one complained against found out they made a claim of an "unfit workplace" to the command's EO office.. That person was then reassigned.. All cause someone didn't like him complaining about the musical choice of another...

Rusty Jones
12-15-2016, 09:10 AM
Whomever came up with "Do more with less" is an idiot of epic proportions.

I don't think that anyone uses this mantra in the serious sense. The people who are actually stuck "doing more with less" because of budget or personnel cuts are the ones who use the phrase to express their frustration with the situation that they find themselves in.

Rusty Jones
12-15-2016, 09:15 AM
And IMO that's why it sucks. you don't NEED to be doing wrong, to be thought of as being wrong. Just someone falsely having the perception of you doing wrong, is all that's needed these days to get in trouble it seems. AND OFTEN even if you PROVE that you are NOT wrong, that's it.. NO 'oops, sorry". No "guess we need to re-educate the one who had the false perception"...

To me, it wasn't even that. I remember my first duty station: shore duty in Groton. I don't remember exactly what it was that I was perceived to be doing, but someone - who was senior to me - saw it, and decided to tell my LPO. I then, of course, get pulled aside by the LPO who then tells me about it. And, of course, because my LPO wasn't there to see for himself was going on and rank = credibility, my LPO believed the person who saw me, and wasn't interested in anything that I had to say.

Whereas... if the person who saw me had come to me and spoken up, the confusion would have been cleared on the spot.

Mind you, I had just gotten to my first duty station, and I was in that happy bright-eyed boot phase... this particular moment, right then and there, killed it. This was the single moment that the reality of military life slapped me in the face.

Mjölnir
12-15-2016, 10:56 AM
That is how its SUPPOSED to work, however all too often i have seen it taken to that extreme.. Such as one case where ONE person complained about music played by another in the office, and when the one complained against found out they made a claim of an "unfit workplace" to the command's EO office.. That person was then reassigned.. All cause someone didn't like him complaining about the musical choice of another...

Any instance would be too often ... But I don't see this a majority of the time.

In the case of the guy playing the music, there are a lot of variables that I (and you likely don't) know:

What type of music was it?
How loud was he playing it?
Had he been asked to stop? If so, what was his reaction?
Was the resolution done formally or informally?
Did he agree to the realignment?
If he fought it did he formally appeal it?
If so, what what the determination of the appeal?

For all these questions, you have his side of the story, what you know of the original complaint (which may not be accurate, and your perception of what the resolution was.

I had an EO complaint in the command a few months ago, PO2 was counseled for wearing a skirt vice trousers in uniform. On its surface that is pretty cut and dry, the uniform skirt is an authorized optional uniform component for the uniform of the day. Peeling back the onion on the story a bit revealed that there was her side of the issue, the Alpos side, and the CPO & DIVO had a third version. I am sure that in their respective circles of friends and family the PO2 told people her side, which favored her, the LPO told her(yes, a second her) side and the CPO and DIVO told theirs.

Mjölnir
12-15-2016, 11:08 AM
To me, it wasn't even that. I remember my first duty station: shore duty in Groton. I don't remember exactly what it was that I was perceived to be doing, but someone - who was senior to me - saw it, and decided to tell my LPO. I then, of course, get pulled aside by the LPO who then tells me about it. And, of course, because my LPO wasn't there to see for himself was going on and rank = credibility, my LPO believed the person who saw me, and wasn't interested in anything that I had to say.

Whereas... if the person who saw me had come to me and spoken up, the confusion would have been cleared on the spot.

Mind you, I had just gotten to my first duty station, and I was in that happy bright-eyed boot phase... this particular moment, right then and there, killed it. This was the single moment that the reality of military life slapped me in the face.

One of the reasons I sometime miss the Marines, everyone is willing to approach you directly to tell you when you are thought to be fucked up.

Your situation above does vex me, poor leadership discourages too many people from staying. That said we are all going to work for someone or many someone's who have their head up their ass. For the most part I have been fortunate to have worked for good leaders; but yeah ... In 25 years I have seen some promoted one or two times beyond their capability and it hurts those around them.

My first duty station was Guantanamo Bay in the Ground Defense Secrity Force ... At the time I hated it. As a LCpl (E3) you lived in a four man room for E3 and below, worked a 2-2-2-80 schedule for a year ... And on your 80 hour break was not Liberty but a break from standing post ... you had training, admin, weapons and vehicle maintenance etc. I would have separated from the military had I not gotten a second tour to see that the entire USMC is not GTMO and that much of my perception of it was being 19 & 20, an E3 and only privy to my small part in the overall organization.

I am glad now that I got that different perspective ... But had I had strings of bad experiences I likely would not look back.

Mjölnir
12-15-2016, 11:08 AM
To me, it wasn't even that. I remember my first duty station: shore duty in Groton. I don't remember exactly what it was that I was perceived to be doing, but someone - who was senior to me - saw it, and decided to tell my LPO. I then, of course, get pulled aside by the LPO who then tells me about it. And, of course, because my LPO wasn't there to see for himself was going on and rank = credibility, my LPO believed the person who saw me, and wasn't interested in anything that I had to say.

Whereas... if the person who saw me had come to me and spoken up, the confusion would have been cleared on the spot.

Mind you, I had just gotten to my first duty station, and I was in that happy bright-eyed boot phase... this particular moment, right then and there, killed it. This was the single moment that the reality of military life slapped me in the face.

One of the reasons I sometime miss the Marines, everyone is willing to approach you directly to tell you when you are thought to be fucked up.

Your situation above does vex me, poor leadership discourages too many people from staying. That said we are all going to work for someone or many someone's who have their head up their ass. For the most part I have been fortunate to have worked for good leaders; but yeah ... In 25 years I have seen some promoted one or two times beyond their capability and it hurts those around them.

My first duty station was Guantanamo Bay in the Ground Defense Secrity Force ... At the time I hated it. As a LCpl (E3) you lived in a four man room for E3 and below, worked a 2-2-2-80 schedule for a year ... And on your 80 hour break was not Liberty but a break from standing post ... you had training, admin, weapons and vehicle maintenance etc. I would have separated from the military had I not gotten a second tour to see that the entire USMC is not GTMO and that much of my perception of it was being 19 & 20, an E3 and only privy to my small part in the overall organization.

I am glad now that I got that different perspective ... But had I had strings of bad experiences I likely would not look back.

WILDJOKER5
12-15-2016, 12:10 PM
Snitches get stiches.

Bos Mutus
12-15-2016, 02:23 PM
I don't think that anyone uses this mantra in the serious sense. The people who are actually stuck "doing more with less" because of budget or personnel cuts are the ones who use the phrase to express their frustration with the situation that they find themselves in.

People started using it cynically after years of leadership using it seriously.

Rusty Jones
12-15-2016, 05:03 PM
You get paid for 24 hours everyday, seven days a week.

This is something that's usually said to someone being made to work a ridiculous amount of hours with no time off in the forseeable future.

Not sure if it's meant to shut a complainer up, or if it's meant make a complainer think "Well, gee, now that you put it THAT way; I'm happy!"

In any case, it's an insult to the intelligence of the person being told this. Especially since there are plenty of people in the military who have been salaried professionals prior to joining.


This ain't Burger King; you can't have it your way.

Just because it's old and corny as fuck.

Bos Mutus
12-15-2016, 05:34 PM
This is something that's usually said to someone being made to work a ridiculous amount of hours with no time off in the forseeable future.

Not sure if it's meant to shut a complainer up, or if it's meant make a complainer think "Well, gee, now that you put it THAT way; I'm happy!".

+1

In the corollary...this is often used to show how supposedly underpaid the military is.

"I get paid only $8.50 per hour (if you count 24/7)...and Betty McBurgerflipper wants $15 per hour?"....blah blah blah.

Rusty Jones
12-15-2016, 06:40 PM
+1

In the corollary...this is often used to show how supposedly underpaid the military is.

"I get paid only $8.50 per hour (if you count 24/7)...and Betty McBurgerflipper wants $15 per hour?"....blah blah blah.

Which is nuts because, by the same standard, a salaried white collar professional making $65,000 a year only makes $7.44 an hour.

Bos Mutus
12-15-2016, 07:28 PM
Which is nuts because, by the same standard, a salaried white collar professional making $65,000 a year only makes $7.44 an hour.

Yes, it's very deceptive.

the truth is...the average 18-25 year old servicemember is compensated much better than their average civilian counterpart.

They are also asked to do a lot more...but, civilian companies are neither going to ask as much nor pay as much in total compensation.

garhkal
12-15-2016, 08:24 PM
To me, it wasn't even that. I remember my first duty station: shore duty in Groton. I don't remember exactly what it was that I was perceived to be doing, but someone - who was senior to me - saw it, and decided to tell my LPO. I then, of course, get pulled aside by the LPO who then tells me about it. And, of course, because my LPO wasn't there to see for himself was going on and rank = credibility, my LPO believed the person who saw me, and wasn't interested in anything that I had to say.

Whereas... if the person who saw me had come to me and spoken up, the confusion would have been cleared on the spot.

Mind you, I had just gotten to my first duty station, and I was in that happy bright-eyed boot phase... this particular moment, right then and there, killed it. This was the single moment that the reality of military life slapped me in the face.

I've seen similar eager eye newbies show up, to get their hyped up images of military life crushed within the first few months of being on their first duty station..




My first duty station was Guantanamo Bay in the Ground Defense Secrity Force ... At the time I hated it. As a LCpl (E3) you lived in a four man room for E3 and below, worked a 2-2-2-80 schedule for a year ... And on your 80 hour break was not Liberty but a break from standing post ... you had training, admin, weapons and vehicle maintenance etc. I would have separated from the military had I not gotten a second tour to see that the entire USMC is not GTMO and that much of my perception of it was being 19 & 20, an E3 and only privy to my small part in the overall organization.

I am glad now that I got that different perspective ... But had I had strings of bad experiences I likely would not look back.

Ive known many that felt the same. Did their 4 yrs on ship and felt they would NOT reenlist cause of their bad experience there..


+1

In the corollary...this is often used to show how supposedly underpaid the military is.

"I get paid only $8.50 per hour (if you count 24/7)...and Betty McBurgerflipper wants $15 per hour?"....blah blah blah.

However, those people fail to take into account, BAS, BAH, Sea pay (or flight pay), imminent danger pay, free medical/dental. Add all those things up, and that 8.50/hr they just see from the base pay gets jacked up.

Rusty Jones
12-15-2016, 09:34 PM
I've seen similar eager eye newbies show up, to get their hyped up images of military life crushed within the first few months of being on their first duty station..

What's funny is that during all the times I've held second gigs - such as taxi driver and delivery driver - and I went on base, I had pretty mixed feelings whenever I saw new Sailors in their service dress blues/whites with a full seabag on their backs and thick yellow envelopes in their hands, fresh out of "A" school. They're happy, they're excited, and - for most - this is the start of their adult lives.

But... we all know that for the majority of these Sailors, this is the happiest they will ever be in their careers. A good percentage of these Sailors won't even finish their enlistments. Another percentage will, but only after enduring the next 3.5 more miserable years of their lives. Another percentage will find life on liberty (i.e., on the ship or in the barracks) so miserable, that they're going to fall in the dependa trap - and end up reenlisting anyway, even though they're just as turned off by military life as the single guys who got out after four.

But when you look at that young Sailor fresh off the plane at Norfolk International Airport, these are things you think about.

I remember when I was driving these guys from the airport to the base. Most would ask me if I was in the Navy; and I would actually deny it. Not that I'm ashamed of my service (far from it), but because I know that the next question would be "why did you get out?" I didn't want to be the guy to ruin their moment.

Bos Mutus
12-15-2016, 10:49 PM
However, those people fail to take into account, BAS, BAH, Sea pay (or flight pay), imminent danger pay, free medical/dental. Add all those things up, and that 8.50/hr they just see from the base pay gets jacked up.

Free Medical, Dental, 30 days paid vacation....these are exceedingly rare in the civilian world.

Rusty Jones
12-16-2016, 01:34 AM
Free Medical, Dental, 30 days paid vacation....these are exceedingly rare in the civilian world.

Yep, I'm a GS-11 Step 4, and my take home pay is somewhere between that of an E4 or E5. There are only two parts of my compensation package that are better than active duty military's: I get paid for overtime (it's not time and a half, though), and I get better leave (i.e., you can combine leave and scheduled time off).

But even with those advantages, I'd still gladly trade my GS-11 compensation package for an active duty E6 compensation package if I could have it while staying a civilian.

garhkal
12-16-2016, 04:47 AM
But... we all know that for the majority of these Sailors, this is the happiest they will ever be in their careers. A good percentage of these Sailors won't even finish their enlistments. Another percentage will, but only after enduring the next 3.5 more miserable years of their lives. Another percentage will find life on liberty (i.e., on the ship or in the barracks) so miserable, that they're going to fall in the dependa trap - and end up reenlisting anyway, even though they're just as turned off by military life as the single guys who got out after four.

This is imo why its imperative that as one of the senior people in a shop you always take these new folks under your wings to steer them right and keep them from getting into those traps..


But when you look at that young Sailor fresh off the plane at Norfolk International Airport, these are things you think about.

I remember when I was driving these guys from the airport to the base. Most would ask me if I was in the Navy; and I would actually deny it. Not that I'm ashamed of my service (far from it), but because I know that the next question would be "why did you get out?" I didn't want to be the guy to ruin their moment.

Back when i was thinking of going to work for Uber (or a similar company) i always wondered how i would have answered that question, should i have BEEN the person doing that, driving a newbie fresh from boot to his first command.. Since i retired, and didn't get out after 4,6 or what ever, i feel good about being truthful..

LogDog
12-16-2016, 07:27 PM
+1

In the corollary...this is often used to show how supposedly underpaid the military is.

"I get paid only $8.50 per hour (if you count 24/7)...and Betty McBurgerflipper wants $15 per hour?"....blah blah blah.
Those using the hourly rate when comparing military pay to civilian pay are either trying to push their agenda or are ignorant about the difference between hourly and salaried employees. IMO, they're ignorant.

Rusty Jones
12-17-2016, 10:40 PM
Those using the hourly rate when comparing military pay to civilian pay are either trying to push their agenda or are ignorant about the difference between hourly and salaried employees. IMO, they're ignorant.

Ignorance, definitely. Most people joining the military have never had a salaried job before; so they go in with the mindset of comparing their pay to working at Burger King or whatever part time job they had while they were in high school.

Rusty Jones
12-18-2016, 03:15 AM
The current crop coming in these days are so whiny and lazy.

Seriously? You mean, during the US military's 240 year history, nobody complained, nobody tried to skate or sham out of work, and the military was a place here EVERYONE was squared away and happily did what they were told... but that all changed sometime after YOU became an NCO?

Get the fuck outta here!

LogDog
12-18-2016, 07:53 PM
Ignorance, definitely. Most people joining the military have never had a salaried job before; so they go in with the mindset of comparing their pay to working at Burger King or whatever part time job they had while they were in high school.
I'd rather work as a salaried employee than an hourly wage employee. My mindset has always been I'll work as many hours as it take to get a job done and if that means overtime at no extra pay then that's what I'll do. Being a salaried employee also mean you typically have more control and flexibility over your work than an hourly employee.

Mjölnir
12-18-2016, 08:01 PM
Those using the hourly rate when comparing military pay to civilian pay are either trying to push their agenda or are ignorant about the difference between hourly and salaried employees. IMO, they're ignorant.

True fact, the military gets paid the same no matter how much or how little they work. Over time all the long hours, days and weeks are pretty well compensated for with time off to take kids to the doc, get a car fixed or registered, feeling under the weather but short of SIQ etc.

sandsjames
12-18-2016, 08:39 PM
True fact, the military gets paid the same no matter how much or how little they work. Over time all the long hours, days and weeks are pretty well compensated for with time off to take kids to the doc, get a car fixed or registered, feeling under the weather but short of SIQ etc.

Bullshit...none of that makes up for 6-15 months of deployment...so don't convince yourself that anyone is "well compensated" with anything. They are compensated as much as possible, but it's not anywhere close to balancing out.

LogDog
12-18-2016, 09:04 PM
Bullshit...none of that makes up for 6-15 months of deployment...so don't convince yourself that anyone is "well compensated" with anything. They are compensated as much as possible, but it's not anywhere close to balancing out.
The problem with your argument is military people know they are subject to deployments when they enlisted. In some instances, their deployments pay them extra money in the form of combat pay, exclusion of income tax for the time a person is deployed to a combat zone, fight pay, etc., and for the Navy their deployments at sea they get Sea Pay.

The pay the military get for being deployed may not be up t your standards but it is there. Also remember, if a person retires from the military their pensions and medical benefits are, on the whole, better than their civilian counterparts. My father, brother and myself are retired military are they always received their retirement checks whereas a number of civilian companies try to reduce or eliminate either pension obligations. If it weren't for the medical benefits, I'd still have to be working to pay for medical insurance but since I get my medical care through the military I don't need to buy medical insurance.

LogDog
12-18-2016, 09:17 PM
Seriously? You mean, during the US military's 240 year history, nobody complained, nobody tried to skate or sham out of work, and the military was a place here EVERYONE was squared away and happily did what they were told... but that all changed sometime after YOU became an NCO?

Get the fuck outta here!
I always hated hearing, especially from my fellow SNCOs, that "The current crop coming in these days are so whiny and lazy. " or sentiments like that because I didn't buy into that type of thinking. I'd remind them their SNCOs were saying the same thing about us when we were 2- or 3-stripers and look how we turned out. Also, I'd point out the number of times they publicly said how much smarter and sharper the new generation of airmen are and then sit back and watch them stammer trying to figure a way to recover from their disconnected statements. It's not that I took pleasure in embarrassing them, okay, maybe a little, but I wasn't going to let them off they hook by saying one thing in public and another in private.

Mjölnir
12-18-2016, 11:08 PM
Bullshit...none of that makes up for 6-15 months of deployment...so don't convince yourself that anyone is "well compensated" with anything. They are compensated as much as possible, but it's not anywhere close to balancing out.

Welcome back.

Make up for it? No, nothing will "make up" for missing time with our families ... what I am getting at is that most places in the military are pretty liberal about giving people time off for things a normal employer would either dock people time for or just fire someone for; something that I currently deal with in having about 450 military and 200 civilian employees in our command.

Straight comparing military to civilian jobs and employment practices doesn't really work, but yes, from a monetary standpoint ... by and large we (the military) are well compensated for what we do.

Mjölnir
12-19-2016, 10:52 AM
Seriously? You mean, during the US military's 240 year history, nobody complained, nobody tried to skate or sham out of work, and the military was a place here EVERYONE was squared away and happily did what they were told... but that all changed sometime after YOU became an NCO?

Get the fuck outta here!

Well yeah ... don't you know that everyone is screwed up but 'me' ...

Rusty Jones
12-19-2016, 04:39 PM
Bullshit...none of that makes up for 6-15 months of deployment...so don't convince yourself that anyone is "well compensated" with anything. They are compensated as much as possible, but it's not anywhere close to balancing out.

I don't know any civilian who receives an ACTUAL 24/7 wage when away from home.

On another note, there are plenty of people - both military and civilian - who think that military members are poor. I remember a few years back, when I was shopping at the Dollar Tree before the school year started, I was at the check out counter and the cashier asked me if I wanted to purchase any school supplies to donate to military dependent children.

Whaaaa? Cheap ass Dollar Tree school supplies? Donate? Hahahahahaha!

I mean, I appreciate what Dollar Tree was trying to do, but damn!

Mjölnir
12-19-2016, 06:30 PM
Cheap ass Dollar Tree school supplies?

Barely better than that Skillcraft stuff we have all over the place around here.

retiredAFcivvy
12-19-2016, 08:26 PM
Barely better than that Skillcraft stuff we have all over the place around here.
Do you realize how long Skilcraft pens have been around? At least (I believe) the stuff is made in USA. Used to be (and probably still is) made by National Industries for the Blind.

Mjölnir
12-19-2016, 08:39 PM
Do you realize how long Skilcraft pens have been around? At least (I believe) the stuff is made in USA. Used to be (and probably still is) made by National Industries for the Blind.

It was a joke ...

Rainmaker
12-19-2016, 09:39 PM
Do you realize how long Skilcraft pens have been around? At least (I believe) the stuff is made in USA. Used to be (and probably still is) made by National Industries for the Blind.


They should be made by people that can actually see..... Make Skilcraft Pens Great Again!

retiredAFcivvy
12-20-2016, 05:08 PM
They should be made by people that can actually see..... Make Skilcraft Pens Great Again!
They come in blue or black ink and work. What else do you need?

retiredAFcivvy
12-20-2016, 05:14 PM
It was a joke ...
I had another poster tell me I needed to lighten up a bit. I couldn't pass up a little history lesson. I know nobody really cares but probably very few folks know the history of NIB.

Rainmaker
12-20-2016, 05:19 PM
They come in blue or black ink and work. What else do you need?

I'll take your word for it....... But, I'm curious... How do they know they work? If they can't even see it, when they write?

retiredAFcivvy
12-20-2016, 06:24 PM
QUOTE=Rainmaker;368762]I'll take your word for it....... But, I'm curious... How do they know they work? If they can't even see it, when they write?[/QUOTE]
I have to admit I don't know all the inner workings of NIB. Folks can be legally blind but yet still have some vision. I'm sure there is a lot of supervision/QC, etc. by those with normal eyesight.

Mjölnir
12-20-2016, 07:23 PM
It was another joke...

http://www.cloudpointtech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/yougotjokes-300x269.jpg

Bos Mutus
12-20-2016, 09:28 PM
I'll take your word for it....... But, I'm curious... How do they know they work? If they can't even see it, when they write?

They have a heightened sense of smell.

retiredAFcivvy
12-22-2016, 07:04 PM
http://www.cloudpointtech.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/yougotjokes-300x269.jpg

OK!OK! At least I know what shinola is (reference a long ago Rainey post) No it wasn't made by NIB.