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View Full Version : Time to declare BLM a domestic terrorist organization



Rainmaker
07-09-2016, 09:42 PM
Enough is enough. It's high time we stopped entertaining this bullshit and crushed it with an iron fist before it escalates.just in the last day...


Thousands Protest Police Violence Across US Cities; Tear Gas Used In Phoenix "Black Lives Matter" Rally
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-09/thousands-protest-police-violence-across-us-cities-tear-gas-used-phoenix-black-lives


4 Shot, 1 Killed After Black Gunman Fires At Passing Cars On Tennessee Highway, Targeting Police, Whites
http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/authorities-highway-gunman-motivated-police-shootings-40441360

St. Louis Cop ambushed and shot in the neck
http://www.riverfronttimes.com/newsblog/2016/07/08/ballwin-cop-undergoing-life-saving-care-after-traffic-stop-shooting

Dallas Shooter, Army Vet Micah Johnson, "Wanted To Kill White People"
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-07-08/dallas-shooter-upset-about-black-lives-matter-wanted-kill-white-people-especially-wh

garhkal
07-09-2016, 10:52 PM
While i agree there is a LOT of rioting/violence that seems to follow the BLM movement, i don't see them YET to the level of a DT org..
However i STILL am wondering, WHY they are being allowed time after time to BLOCK interstate traffic..???

Rusty Jones
07-09-2016, 10:52 PM
LOL, none of the people who killed police were affiliated with BLM. They acted independently.

Remember this: Martin Luther King and other civil rights leaders of their time were declared "domestic terrorists" too.

Declaring BLM as "domestic terrorists" would be the exact same thing.

Rusty Jones
07-09-2016, 11:15 PM
I'm going to honest with you: although it really sucks that people are dying, we've been watching these cops kill unarmed people for far too long, and they ALWAYS get off. Peaceful protesting (i.e., "begging" for them to hold officers accountable) isn't working.

Maybe... just maybe... cops getting picked off will force police departments and state and local governments to start holding their police officers accountable.

waveshaper2
07-09-2016, 11:51 PM
LOL, none of the people who killed police were affiliated with BLM. They acted independently.

Sounds like this killer/terrorist may fall into the Domestic Terrorist/Lone Wolf category. This is similar to how ISIS lone wolf attackers are inspired to carryout attacks in Europe/USA/etc. A few examples of other domestic lone wolf attack/attackers (there are many other cases); anti-abortion extremist Eric Rudolph, self-declared sovereign citizen Carl Drega, Oklahoma City bomber Timothy McVeigh, Theodore Kaczynski the "Unabomber", Dylann Roof and the Charleston Church Massacre, etc, etc. I'm assuming this guy was probably inspired by fringe elements of the BLM/New Black Panthers or some other similar type group;

Definition; A lone wolf or lone-wolf terrorist is someone who commits violent acts in support of some group, movement, or ideology, but who does so alone, outside of any command structure and without material assistance from any group. Although the lone wolf prepares and acts alone, the perpetrator may be influenced or motivated by the ideology and beliefs of an external group.

Rainmaker
07-10-2016, 03:53 AM
Remember this: Martin Luther King and other civil rights leaders of their time were declared "domestic terrorists" too.

I have a dream that we'll shit-can affirmative action and blacks will quit committing so many violent crimes


Declaring BLM as "domestic terrorists" would be the exact same thing.

There are some (not many) similarities between then and now. The main one being that both groups were built, financed and controlled NOT by blacks, but by another group of communists who are pushing their entitlement mentality.

garhkal
07-10-2016, 06:18 AM
I'm going to honest with you: although it really sucks that people are dying, we've been watching these cops kill unarmed people for far too long, and they ALWAYS get off. Peaceful protesting (i.e., "begging" for them to hold officers accountable) isn't working.

Maybe... just maybe... cops getting picked off will force police departments and state and local governments to start holding their police officers accountable.

So, some cops killing thugs, needs to be addressed BY people acting thugish and killing cops?

Rusty Jones
07-10-2016, 10:02 AM
So, some cops killing thugs, needs to be addressed BY people acting thugish and killing cops?

I'm under the impression that the Dallas incident will have "copycats," and I think everyone here can agree.

I think this send a message to the police that "If you stop, then we'll stop."

The police force in this country did this to themselves.

Mjölnir
07-10-2016, 11:39 AM
I'm under the impression that the Dallas incident will have "copycats," and I think everyone here can agree.

Concur


I think this send a message to the police that "If you stop, then we'll stop."

Terrible message to send. Something along the lines of 99.9% of interactions with police do not result in violence, even fewer are judged to be unjustified. If protesting the less than 1% of unjustified violent interactions is going to be via murder, that message is a terrible message.


The police force in this country did this to themselves.

There are some bad bad police and even good police who make bad (sometimes fatal) decisions. The MN incident looks to be a terrible mistake and the officer (if it turns out to be the case) should be held accountable; the Baton Rouge case looks to have been mistaken identity and that the man may have been forcefully no compliant ... The inability of people to also see that what kickstarted this wave of frustration was a narrative built on false representation of the facts to incite racial divisiveness (Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown etc) shows that emotion is overcoming fact. Emotional outrage isn't going to solve the issue.

sandsjames
07-10-2016, 02:20 PM
The big problem, and the reason it won't ever get fixed, is because every discussion ends up like this one. It blames one side only and justifies the actions of the other.

Nobody is right in this instance. Neither side is justified in doing anything that's been done.

There have been no clearer videos of cops making the wrong decision than there were this week. There have also been no clearer responses than the response of the Dallas shooter and those who are copying him.

The big, overarching problem is that people aren't able to separate the bad ones from the good ones. It's become "all cops" and "all blacks" and we know it's just not true. As has been mentioned several times, the relationship between the community and the cops in Dallas is one of the best in the country.

I don't know how you fix it. There are so many things contributing to the problem. Here are a few:

Segregation...not officially, but our country is still extremely segregated.

Lack of prosecution, or penalty for cops...I understand that cops may feel like they're in danger, but if they are found to have made the wrong decision, there have to be severe consequences.

Better education in urban areas...

Quit telling blacks that whites are the enemy.

There are hundreds more on the list, but the main point is this...both sides are to blame...even if you try to justify why it's not your fault, that doesn't change the fact that the perception of the other side doesn't see it that way. We need to change the perception.

USN - Retired
07-10-2016, 04:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uj0mtxXEGE8

efmbman
07-10-2016, 06:36 PM
The police force in this country did this to themselves.

That's a rather broad generalization. I would agree that through lack of proper training and vetting for competent officers, the local departments bear some responsibility, but to say that the Dallas PD earned that attack because of what police did in Baton Rouge / Minnesota is the same as saying that since I know of a black person that committed a crime, all black should be treated like criminals because "they" did it to themselves.

garhkal
07-10-2016, 07:53 PM
I'm under the impression that the Dallas incident will have "copycats," and I think everyone here can agree.

I think this send a message to the police that "If you stop, then we'll stop."

The police force in this country did this to themselves.

Copycats have already been happening. In several other cities, cops have been lured into an ambush by false 911 calls, or shot at by a thug on the side of a road randomly shooting people..

As to the "message", imo that is pure anarchy. Do as WE say, or die...


There are some bad bad police and even good police who make bad (sometimes fatal) decisions. The MN incident looks to be a terrible mistake and the officer (if it turns out to be the case) should be held accountable; the Baton Rouge case looks to have been mistaken identity and that the man may have been forcefully no compliant ... The inability of people to also see that what kickstarted this wave of frustration was a narrative built on false representation of the facts to incite racial divisiveness (Trayvon Martin, Michael Brown etc) shows that emotion is overcoming fact. Emotional outrage isn't going to solve the issue.

Exactly Mj. If the facts of those cases, were not consistently willfully misrepresented by the media, and the black community, people wouldn't be seeing them in the one sided light that they are..


There have been no clearer videos of cops making the wrong decision than there were this week. There have also been no clearer responses than the response of the Dallas shooter and those who are copying him.

Sorry SJ, but i disagree both videos clearly show wrong calls by the cops. For the one up in Minniapolis, we only have video of the aftermath.. NOTHING for what caused the cop to shoot.
For the one in Baton Rouge, as we only saw one side of the scuffle, not the arm under the car, we can't know if he was reaching for his gun..


That's a rather broad generalization. I would agree that through lack of proper training and vetting for competent officers, the local departments bear some responsibility, but to say that the Dallas PD earned that attack because of what police did in Baton Rouge / Minnesota is the same as saying that since I know of a black person that committed a crime, all black should be treated like criminals because "they" did it to themselves.

I agree. It would be like saying, cause fans in Cleveland threw a riot and destroyed cars in cleveland, then fans of the SF giants deserve to get beaten down...

sandsjames
07-10-2016, 11:13 PM
Sorry SJ, but i disagree both videos clearly show wrong calls by the cops. For the one up in Minniapolis, we only have video of the aftermath.. NOTHING for what caused the cop to shoot.
For the one in Baton Rouge, as we only saw one side of the scuffle, not the arm under the car, we can't know if he was reaching for his gun..





In Baton rouge, the man was on the ground with two cops on top of him. He was going nowhere and there were several other ways to subdue him.

IN Minneapolis, we don't know for sure what happened but what we do know is the guy was a legal gun owner with a license to carry and had told the cop as much. I have no reason to doubt the girlfriend in this case. Hell, even the NRA is putting themselves behind this guy.

Either way, what needs to happen is that there needs to be prosecutions for wrongful death, at least in the Baton Rouge case and most likely in the Minneapolis case.

Even if they don't find the individual cops fully responsible, they need to hold the police departments liable.

Rusty Jones
07-10-2016, 11:28 PM
No surprise that garhkal is going to find a way to justify the cop's actions or, when he can't, find a way to give the officer the benefit of the doubt.

garhkal
07-11-2016, 05:12 AM
And no surprise you wanna hang the cops, based on the snippets of video footage we have. It seems you always see them as guilty till proven innocent. And even then, its only cause the systems corrupt that they are innocent..

Mjölnir
07-11-2016, 11:21 AM
The immediate police reaction regarding TTPs may not be a softening of tactics / ROE when dealing with protestors.

Associated Press: http://bigstory.ap.org/article/eee7b837680d46a3a36dc786afc7b386/police-may-change-tactics-protests-after-dallas-shooting


MINNEAPOLIS (AP) — In the wake of protests in Ferguson, Missouri, where authorities were criticized for what some called heavy-handed tactics against demonstrators, many departments took a more restrained approach.

Now, after the shooting deaths of five officers at a Dallas protest decrying last week's police killings of two more black men, some experts are suggesting it's possible the pendulum could swing from hugs back to flash-bang grenades and mass arrests.

After days of peaceful protests in St. Paul, officers in riot gear met protesters who blocked Interstate 94 late Saturday in the biggest confrontation between police and demonstrators since an officer fatally shot a black man during a suburban Twin Cities traffic stop last week. About 100 people were arrested — half during the highway standoff and the other half early Sunday in another part of St. Paul.

sandsjames
07-11-2016, 11:52 AM
No surprise that garhkal is going to find a way to justify the cop's actions or, when he can't, find a way to give the officer the benefit of the doubt.

Yep...but either way, even if we were to give those two specific cops the benefit of the doubt, the police departments still need to be punished in some way. There has to be consequences for the wrong decision, even if they felt justified at the time.

WILDJOKER5
07-11-2016, 01:25 PM
I'm under the impression that the Dallas incident will have "copycats," and I think everyone here can agree.

I think this send a message to the police that "If you stop, then we'll stop."

The police force in this country did this to themselves.

Funny, more whites are killed in a higher percentage of police interactions than blacks, yet, you don't see whites rioting or killing cops or chanting "kill cops". But hey, you keep condoning your own to kill cops. Wonder when BLM will start taking up arms against thugs in the hoods who kill more blacks each year than the KKK have killed since the civil war?

Bah....that's none of your concern now is it?

WILDJOKER5
07-11-2016, 01:27 PM
Terrible message to send. Something along the lines of 99.9% of interactions with police do not result in violence, even fewer are judged to be unjustified. If protesting the less than 1% of unjustified violent interactions is going to be via murder, that message is a terrible message.

.0034% of police interactions result in a complaint.

WILDJOKER5
07-11-2016, 01:35 PM
I have a simple solution for blacks if they don't want to be killed by cops through unjustified methods...stop living in democrat controlled cities where most of these death by cop incidents occur. Everyone keeps blaming "all white people", but still vote for white democrats because they think its republicans who are trying to keep the black community down. Yet blacks are far worse off in democrat cities and are killed by cops who support those democrat leaders. It seriously is Stockholm syndrome to a tee.

sandsjames
07-11-2016, 03:38 PM
I have a simple solution for blacks if they don't want to be killed by cops through unjustified methods...stop living in democrat controlled cities where most of these death by cop incidents occur. Everyone keeps blaming "all white people", but still vote for white democrats because they think its republicans who are trying to keep the black community down. Yet blacks are far worse off in democrat cities and are killed by cops who support those democrat leaders. It seriously is Stockholm syndrome to a tee.

That's about as useful and helpful as saying the solution is for cops to stop being racist or for police departments to have better training. There isn't a single, simple solution. It has to be attacked from all sides...nobody's hands are clean in any of these situations. Everyone involved, at some point, could have changed something that changed the outcome. However, that doesn't do us any good.

What cracks me up is that the same people who always claim that everyone needs to learn to take responsibility for their actions are the ones who are trying to pass the buck when it comes to there being any flaws with policing.

I don't envy the police. They have a tough job. However, they are the professionals in these cases. They are the one's who have to err on the side of caution, even if it increases the risk to themselves. That's part of the weight they take on when they join the force.

sparks82
07-11-2016, 04:14 PM
The main problem we have is a media problem. There are no more journalists left in this world. We have commentators and pundits. The 24/7 news cycle creates a lot of issues because the media no longer reports the news but rather creates news. Everyone wants to be the first to jump on a story and have "breaking" news without finding out all the facts. That's where a lot of hysterics come from. There have been stories where they jumped on the first tidbit of information they got and then, when it's not a big deal at all, they don't really follow up. There might be a blurb buried down somewhere.

Mainstream media is out of control. There seems to be no ethics or morals in journalism or any journalists left.

sandsjames
07-11-2016, 05:13 PM
The main problem we have is a media problem. There are no more journalists left in this world. We have commentators and pundits. The 24/7 news cycle creates a lot of issues because the media no longer reports the news but rather creates news. Everyone wants to be the first to jump on a story and have "breaking" news without finding out all the facts. That's where a lot of hysterics come from. There have been stories where they jumped on the first tidbit of information they got and then, when it's not a big deal at all, they don't really follow up. There might be a blurb buried down somewhere.

Mainstream media is out of control. There seems to be no ethics or morals in journalism or any journalists left.

Absolutely, 100% agree.

efmbman
07-11-2016, 05:36 PM
The main problem we have is a media problem. There are no more journalists left in this world. We have commentators and pundits. The 24/7 news cycle creates a lot of issues because the media no longer reports the news but rather creates news. Everyone wants to be the first to jump on a story and have "breaking" news without finding out all the facts. That's where a lot of hysterics come from. There have been stories where they jumped on the first tidbit of information they got and then, when it's not a big deal at all, they don't really follow up. There might be a blurb buried down somewhere.

Mainstream media is out of control. There seems to be no ethics or morals in journalism or any journalists left.

90% of the media outlets in the USA are owned by only 6 massive corporations. Each has an agenda to push and advertising money to rake in. I would bet that on most issues, these corporations pay both sides of the street politically to ensure that no matter who actually gets elected, they still have favors to call on.

sparks82
07-11-2016, 05:45 PM
90% of the media outlets in the USA are owned by only 6 massive corporations. Each has an agenda to push and advertising money to rake in. I would bet that on most issues, these corporations pay both sides of the street politically to ensure that no matter who actually gets elected, they still have favors to call on.

That doesn't negate the fact we have a problem with the media. I was a journalist at one point. The way they act today is not how I was taught nor how I reported.

sandsjames
07-11-2016, 05:48 PM
That doesn't negate the fact we have a problem with the media. I was a journalist at one point. The way they act today is not how I was taught nor how I reported.

I know it's hard for you to recognize the obvious, but he was agreeing with you.

WILDJOKER5
07-11-2016, 07:03 PM
https://youtu.be/dBp2w8r17AE

Good numbers and explanations.

"Cops are 19x more likely to be killed by a black person than to kill a black person."

sandsjames
07-11-2016, 07:09 PM
https://youtu.be/dBp2w8r17AE

Good numbers and explanations.

"Cops are 19x more likely to be killed by a black person than to kill a black person."

Completely irrelevant. The cop is a trained officer and is the professional in all situations. The cop should be, and MUST be, held to a much higher standard. If the police officer is worried that he isn't going to be able to make the correct split second decision, he needs to find a new profession.

efmbman
07-11-2016, 07:12 PM
I know it's hard for you to recognize the obvious, but he was agreeing with you.

Indeed I was... I don't get it sometimes.


That doesn't negate the fact we have a problem with the media. I was a journalist at one point. The way they act today is not how I was taught nor how I reported.

Journalists of today are on-air talent. Nice smile, perfect hair, great voice. For the ladies, throw in nice legs, cleavage and short skirts. If they can read what's on the teleprompter then that's 90% of the job interview process. Those earning a degree in journalism are most likely going to end up being program producers or segment producers. The only way to advance or even keep those positions is to increase ratings. To increase ratings... well you know the rest.

garhkal
07-11-2016, 07:41 PM
Funny, more whites are killed in a higher percentage of police interactions than blacks, yet, you don't see whites rioting or killing cops or chanting "kill cops". But hey, you keep condoning your own to kill cops. Wonder when BLM will start taking up arms against thugs in the hoods who kill more blacks each year than the KKK have killed since the civil war?

Bah....that's none of your concern now is it?

Heck, other than on fox, you won't even HEAR that fact mentioned in the news.


The main problem we have is a media problem. There are no more journalists left in this world. We have commentators and pundits. The 24/7 news cycle creates a lot of issues because the media no longer reports the news but rather creates news. Everyone wants to be the first to jump on a story and have "breaking" news without finding out all the facts. That's where a lot of hysterics come from. There have been stories where they jumped on the first tidbit of information they got and then, when it's not a big deal at all, they don't really follow up. There might be a blurb buried down somewhere.

Mainstream media is out of control. There seems to be no ethics or morals in journalism or any journalists left.

Well said sparks. And to me, the bigger issue, is when they DO screw up, you rarely HEAR them apologize for it.


https://youtu.be/dBp2w8r17AE

Good numbers and explanations.

"Cops are 19x more likely to be killed by a black person than to kill a black person."

Strange how not ONE media outlet, other than a right wing news site even had this story on it.. and that was a little snippet.
Its almost like they are thinking if "We don't report on it, it never happened" in regards to those hundreds of tweets Praising the killer..


Completely irrelevant. The cop is a trained officer and is the professional in all situations. The cop should be, and MUST be, held to a much higher standard. If the police officer is worried that he isn't going to be able to make the correct split second decision, he needs to find a new profession.

So blacks going to twitter, to CELEBRATE the killings of white cops, by tweeting "YAY, good job", or "Next time have more bruthas there, to flank the pigs", and proof from the Doj/FBI that blacks are killed at HALF the rate that whites are, is Irrelevant???

sandsjames
07-11-2016, 08:42 PM
So blacks going to twitter, to CELEBRATE the killings of white cops, by tweeting "YAY, good job", or "Next time have more bruthas there, to flank the pigs", and proof from the Doj/FBI that blacks are killed at HALF the rate that whites are, is Irrelevant???It's not irrelevant to the overall point that our country is fucked up, but it's irrelevant to the fact that cops sometimes shoot people without needing to.

Arguments like yours do nothing to help the problem. It's a cycle of playing the blame game and it's not going to get better by doing so.

I'm not, nor would I ever, lump all cops together. I'm not even saying that these two shootings were entirely the fault of the cops. What I'm saying is that, just as with the military, cops are held to a higher standard and if they can't meet that standard then they need to step down.

And, let's be completely honest here. Having the line for a cop to shoot a suspect to be at the arbitrary line of "I felt threatened" isn't good enough. There is no way to challenge that argument. That leads to almost every cop being exonerated, and that leads to the outrage.

Again, I don't necessarily blame the cop because it's a tough situation but the fact is, no matter what mitigating circumstances there are, one suspect was shot and killed when there clearly wasn't a life or death situation for the two cops.

Here's the other issue, and it's an even bigger issue. Any person who ALWAYS says the police made the right decision and any person who ALWAYS says the suspects were the victims are not thinking about the best interest of anyone. Sometimes, it's the suspects fault for acting stupid and creating the situation...sometimes it's the cops fault for using far too much force.

For those who always claim that it's the fault of the other side, you all aren't doing anything but add fuel to the fire.

garhkal
07-11-2016, 10:24 PM
And pray tell, what's your POV on all those thugs, CHEERING for what the dallas shooter did, and encouraging more people to do the same??

sandsjames
07-11-2016, 10:33 PM
And pray tell, what's your POV on all those thugs, CHEERING for what the dallas shooter did, and encouraging more people to do the same??

My POV is that they are idiots, they are racist, and they are way over the line.

That doesn't change the fact that cops still screw up and need to be held accountable.

Mjölnir
07-12-2016, 01:09 AM
Completely irrelevant. The cop is a trained officer and is the professional in all situations. The cop should be, and MUST be, held to a much higher standard. If the police officer is worried that he isn't going to be able to make the correct split second decision, he needs to find a new profession.

Yes, the police officer is the trained professional ... Should be etc.

The problem with the line of thinking that anytime a police officer makes a decision that turns out to have been wrong is when people misunderstand what it means to be criminally negligent or to make split second life and death decisions. Few people who sit in the comfort of an air conditioned space and watch a video of an incident multiple times, slowed down an analyzed know what it is like to have that same situation play out in real time.

Looking back on many of the police shootings that did not result in prosecution, you can see where either the defense attorney or police department (to the grand jury) did a very good job of getting a majority of the adjudicators to understand the difficulty in making that decision and whether or not the officer(s) were criminally negligent.

Some shootings that while tragic don't appear to have been criminal: Michael Brown, Tamir Rice.

Some that appear to have been criminal: the driver in SC.

I have not read enough on the Baton Rouge shooting, if the officers' story is true it seems like a very confusing situation, the MN shooting, seems to be a huge mistake and likely criminally negligent ... Am not sure if there is video before the shooting or not.

We should absolutely expect police to be professional, but we can also only ask them to make a decision based on the best available information in real time.

garhkal
07-12-2016, 04:35 AM
My POV is that they are idiots, they are racist, and they are way over the line.

That doesn't change the fact that cops still screw up and need to be held accountable.

Right now, there is new info on the shooting in Minneapolis, alleging that the person killed was (as well as his car) on a BOLO from an armed robbery earlier in the day. If that's true, it puts the cops shooting a little more into perspective.



Some shootings that while tragic don't appear to have been criminal: Michael Brown, Tamir Rice.

Some that appear to have been criminal: the driver in SC.

I have not read enough on the Baton Rouge shooting, if the officers' story is true it seems like a very confusing situation, the MN shooting, seems to be a huge mistake and likely criminally negligent ... Am not sure if there is video before the shooting or not.

We should absolutely expect police to be professional, but we can also only ask them to make a decision based on the best available information in real time.

Exactly MJ. We have the luxury to sit back and analyze a video time after time, and get inundated with inuendo and bias from reporting, which tends to sway someone's view point on a shooting. BUT the cop at the time doesn't have that.

sandsjames
07-12-2016, 11:49 AM
Yes, the police officer is the trained professional ... Should be etc.

The problem with the line of thinking that anytime a police officer makes a decision that turns out to have been wrong is when people misunderstand what it means to be criminally negligent or to make split second life and death decisions. Few people who sit in the comfort of an air conditioned space and watch a video of an incident multiple times, slowed down an analyzed know what it is like to have that same situation play out in real time.

Looking back on many of the police shootings that did not result in prosecution, you can see where either the defense attorney or police department (to the grand jury) did a very good job of getting a majority of the adjudicators to understand the difficulty in making that decision and whether or not the officer(s) were criminally negligent.

Some shootings that while tragic don't appear to have been criminal: Michael Brown, Tamir Rice.

Some that appear to have been criminal: the driver in SC.

I have not read enough on the Baton Rouge shooting, if the officers' story is true it seems like a very confusing situation, the MN shooting, seems to be a huge mistake and likely criminally negligent ... Am not sure if there is video before the shooting or not.

We should absolutely expect police to be professional, but we can also only ask them to make a decision based on the best available information in real time.

I don't doubt for a second the difficulty of those choices.

I'm sure there are a few people on this forum, or that you know, who have been in the position of manning the weapon on the top of the Hummer as you drive through Iraqi and Afghan cities. It's a very dangerous situation, but the ROE prohibit firing into a crowd of civilians, even if something happens that makes you fear your life is in danger. It's an extremely tough position to be in, but it's part of the responsibility we accept when we volunteer to put our lives on the line.

Again, I have no doubt that it's an impossible, split second decision, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a right or wrong choice to make in that instant.

sandsjames
07-12-2016, 11:55 AM
Right now, there is new info on the shooting in Minneapolis, alleging that the person killed was (as well as his car) on a BOLO from an armed robbery earlier in the day. If that's true, it puts the cops shooting a little more into perspective. There's always perspective, and I've already stated that Minneapolis and Baton Rouge are two possibly different situations.

Here's the problem...my main problem. There has yet been an instant where you, and others of your ilk, are to question the choices made of ANY of the police officers. Not once. You have immediately backed them.

Just as with the military, cops aren't flawless and to give them the benefit of the doubt, every single time, is impossible.






Exactly MJ. We have the luxury to sit back and analyze a video time after time, and get inundated with inuendo and bias from reporting, which tends to sway someone's view point on a shooting. BUT the cop at the time doesn't have that.Do you even attempt to understand what I'm saying? I agree with you 100% on this. That doesn't mean that someone has to be held responsible when somebody gets killed and it turns out they didn't have a gun or that they weren't an immediate threat to the police officer's life.

waveshaper2
07-12-2016, 02:20 PM
Some background info on the criminal record on one of the individuals that was shot by the police (this is just one small piece of the puzzle and may not even be relevant to the shooting). I'm not sure if these shootings were justified but I'm patient and will wait for lots more "facts" to come out. It would also be nice to get some more info on the police officers/police departments involved in these shootings.
Alton Sterling (source-Snopes.com) ; http://www.snopes.com/alton-sterling-arrest-record/
•Simple battery (dismissed) (Nov. 24, 1996)
•Simple battery – dismissed (Oct. 28, 1997)
•Simple burglary of inhabited dwelling (May 5-15, 2005) request for arrest warrant
•Felony theft (May 5-15, 2005) request for arrest warrant
•Simple burglary (amended to illegal possession of stolen things – guilty plea) (May 24, 2005)
•Aggravated battery (amended to simple battery – guilty plea) (March 6, 2006)
•Simple criminal damage to property – guilty plea (March 6, 2006)
•Unauthorized entry of an inhabited dwelling (amended to disturbing the peace – guilty plea) (March 6, 2006)
•Expired driver’s license (March 21, 2008)
•Driver’s license issue (hard to read document) (2008)
•Domestic abuse battery – pleaded guilty (March 31, 2008)
•Illegal carrying weapons with controlled dangerous substance – pleaded guilty (May 29, 2009)
•Felon in possession of a firearm – dismissed (May 29, 2009)
•Contempt of court – (Aug. 10, 2009) – Guilty plea
•Fail to use seat belt (Feb. 5, 2014)
•Fail to renew registration (Feb. 5, 2014)
•Failure to comply with sex offender registration (Aug. 11, 2015) – Forfeiture
•Possession of a schedule 1 drug, (April4-5, 2016) – no conclusion
•Possession of marijuana first offense. (April 5, 2016) – no conclusion

Mjölnir
07-12-2016, 02:22 PM
I don't doubt for a second the difficulty of those choices.

I'm sure there are a few people on this forum, or that you know, who have been in the position of manning the weapon on the top of the Hummer as you drive through Iraqi and Afghan cities. It's a very dangerous situation, but the ROE prohibit firing into a crowd of civilians, even if something happens that makes you fear your life is in danger. It's an extremely tough position to be in, but it's part of the responsibility we accept when we volunteer to put our lives on the line.

Again, I have no doubt that it's an impossible, split second decision, but that doesn't mean that there isn't a right or wrong choice to make in that instant.

Concur and can say from firsthand it is a hard position to be put in.

The importance of understanding the difficulties of the situation is knowing when the wrong decision is a criminal act, and when it is a tragic accident.

sandsjames
07-12-2016, 02:54 PM
Concur and can say from firsthand it is a hard position to be put in.

The importance of understanding the difficulties of the situation is knowing when the wrong decision is a criminal act, and when it is a tragic accident.

Absolutely...and the only thing that is going to help fix the problem is that, even when it's a tragic accident and not a criminal act, there has to be some repercussions.

Rainmaker
07-12-2016, 03:22 PM
Some background info on the criminal record on one of the individuals that was shot by the police (this is just one small piece of the puzzle and may not even be relevant to the shooting). I'm not sure if these shootings were justified but I'm patient and will wait for lots more "facts" to come out. It would also be nice to get some more info on the police officers/police departments involved in these shootings.
Alton Sterling (source-Snopes.com) ; http://www.snopes.com/alton-sterling-arrest-record/
•Simple battery (dismissed) (Nov. 24, 1996)
•Simple battery – dismissed (Oct. 28, 1997)
•Simple burglary of inhabited dwelling (May 5-15, 2005) request for arrest warrant
•Felony theft (May 5-15, 2005) request for arrest warrant
•Simple burglary (amended to illegal possession of stolen things – guilty plea) (May 24, 2005)
•Aggravated battery (amended to simple battery – guilty plea) (March 6, 2006)
•Simple criminal damage to property – guilty plea (March 6, 2006)
•Unauthorized entry of an inhabited dwelling (amended to disturbing the peace – guilty plea) (March 6, 2006)
•Expired driver’s license (March 21, 2008)
•Driver’s license issue (hard to read document) (2008)
•Domestic abuse battery – pleaded guilty (March 31, 2008)
•Illegal carrying weapons with controlled dangerous substance – pleaded guilty (May 29, 2009)
•Felon in possession of a firearm – dismissed (May 29, 2009)
•Contempt of court – (Aug. 10, 2009) – Guilty plea
•Fail to use seat belt (Feb. 5, 2014)
•Fail to renew registration (Feb. 5, 2014)
•Failure to comply with sex offender registration (Aug. 11, 2015) – Forfeiture
•Possession of a schedule 1 drug, (April4-5, 2016) – no conclusion
•Possession of marijuana first offense. (April 5, 2016) – no conclusion


He a good boy.

sparks82
07-12-2016, 03:49 PM
Some background info on the criminal record on one of the individuals that was shot by the police (this is just one small piece of the puzzle and may not even be relevant to the shooting). I'm not sure if these shootings were justified but I'm patient and will wait for lots more "facts" to come out. It would also be nice to get some more info on the police officers/police departments involved in these shootings.
Alton Sterling (source-Snopes.com) ; http://www.snopes.com/alton-sterling-arrest-record/
•Simple battery (dismissed) (Nov. 24, 1996)
•Simple battery – dismissed (Oct. 28, 1997)
•Simple burglary of inhabited dwelling (May 5-15, 2005) request for arrest warrant
•Felony theft (May 5-15, 2005) request for arrest warrant
•Simple burglary (amended to illegal possession of stolen things – guilty plea) (May 24, 2005)
•Aggravated battery (amended to simple battery – guilty plea) (March 6, 2006)
•Simple criminal damage to property – guilty plea (March 6, 2006)
•Unauthorized entry of an inhabited dwelling (amended to disturbing the peace – guilty plea) (March 6, 2006)
•Expired driver’s license (March 21, 2008)
•Driver’s license issue (hard to read document) (2008)
•Domestic abuse battery – pleaded guilty (March 31, 2008)
•Illegal carrying weapons with controlled dangerous substance – pleaded guilty (May 29, 2009)
•Felon in possession of a firearm – dismissed (May 29, 2009)
•Contempt of court – (Aug. 10, 2009) – Guilty plea
•Fail to use seat belt (Feb. 5, 2014)
•Fail to renew registration (Feb. 5, 2014)
•Failure to comply with sex offender registration (Aug. 11, 2015) – Forfeiture
•Possession of a schedule 1 drug, (April4-5, 2016) – no conclusion
•Possession of marijuana first offense. (April 5, 2016) – no conclusion

Having a criminal record should not be justification for a death sentence when approached by police officers. The police didn't even know the backgrounds of any of these individuals.

sparks82
07-12-2016, 04:23 PM
I think people give police the benefit of the doubt on decisions because everything happens in a split second. I know when the average American hears stories about a servicemember under investigation for shooting someone while deployed, they give them the benefit of the doubt (minus the anti-war people). Until facts come out, that's when people's views change usually.

There's a new article on the Philando Castile (Minnesota) case. http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/nationworld/ct-philando-castile-minnesota-police-shooting-20160711-story.html

The police officer who shot Castile is saying, through his lawyer, that he thought Castile resembled a robbery suspect. However, the lawyer for Castile's gf said to reporters that her bf was shot while he told the officer he had a permit to carry and was armed as he reached for his wallet. She said he had difficulty getting to his wallet and his gun was in holster in his pants. She said they got pulled over for a taillight.

Another lawyer who assisted Castile's family but isn't representing said this: "if Yanez and Kauser believed they could be stopping the robbery suspect, they should have approached the car differently: using lights, sirens and a public address system while they took cover and ordered the occupants to the ground at gunpoint."

There is this article I found but it's not a news site: http://bearingarms.com/jenn-j/2016/07/09/mn-officer-involved-shooting-investigation-uncovers-explosive-evidence/

But it states that people at the scene took pictures and there are no busted taillights, police did CPR on him and the audio from the police scanner as to why they pulled him over. Although if they were pulling him over for that and didn't follow protocol seems odd. I wasn't there though.

Castile's death has been ruled a homicide as well.

The Alton Sterling case: http://www.cbsnews.com/news/the-latest-on-the-alton-sterling-shooting-investigation-baton-rouge/

"According to documents, officers claim they asked Sterling to put his hands on the hood of a nearby vehicle after receiving an anonymous phone-call from someone saying they were threatened by a man with a gun. When Sterling allegedly wouldn't comply with officer's orders, police tried to restrain him, using Tasers. According to documents, when officers were trying to subdue Sterling, they observed the butt of a gun in his pants. Police said they then observed Sterling reach for the gun, and as a result, they shot him."

There was this case: http://pix11.com/2016/07/11/off-duty-officer-accused-in-fatal-road-rage-shooting-in-brooklyn-stripped-of-gun-and-badge/

The off duty office said that there was a road rage incident, this guy gets out and comes up to his car and starts beating him in the head. He IDs as a cop and he keeps hitting him so he shot. Initially hearing that I'm like "Well fuck you can't just beat the shit out of people."

This one has video that contradicts the cop's story: http://nypost.com/2016/07/09/cop-in-damning-video-likely-to-face-charges-for-road-rage-slay/
The guy (Smalls) gets shot right when he gets up to the car window. I'm pretty sure this cop will be indicted and that video is pretty damning.

It's just shitty all around but one solution could be police interacting with the community more and having a forum for people to address the police. OR as the Dallas police chief has stated they are taking applications - come in and apply and fix it from within.

waveshaper2
07-12-2016, 04:33 PM
Having a criminal record should not be justification for a death sentence when approached by police officers. The police didn't even know the backgrounds of any of these individuals.
That's basically what I said, three key concepts/words-Patience/facts/relevant. "(this is just one small piece of the puzzle and may not even be relevant to the shooting). I'm not sure if these shootings were justified but I'm patient and will wait for lots more "facts" to come out".

sparks82
07-12-2016, 04:39 PM
That's basically what I said, three key concepts/words-Patience/facts/relevant. "(this is just one small piece of the puzzle and may not even be relevant to the shooting). I'm not sure if these shootings were justified but I'm patient and will wait for lots more "facts" to come out".

I don't think the traffic stop shooting was "justified." There are ways to de-escalate a situation besides immediately going for their guns. I know it's different in the moment. If you watch when civilians do these shooter scenarios usually they get shot. They aren't expecting it. More facts needed but if they didn't follow protocol in a BOLO stop then I don't think that bodes well.

The other one where they struggled with him and then appear to remove the gun after they shot him...not good either.

My point is when a civilian is shot by police immediately their criminal record is brought up. But that has no bearing on that particular reason they were stopped or pulled over.

Another note - the Stanford kid who sexually assaulted that girl his past criminal history was not initially brought up nor did the media use his mugshot. His swimming record were constantly referred to and after he was convicted of the sexual assault is when I read about the underage drinking and some other things or how he had harassed other women. That's the media problem again mainly though.

sandsjames
07-12-2016, 04:59 PM
Another note - the Stanford kid who sexually assaulted that girl his past criminal history was not initially brought up nor did the media use his mugshot. His swimming record were constantly referred to and after he was convicted of the sexual assault is when I read about the underage drinking and some other things or how he had harassed other women. That's the media problem again mainly though.Exactly...it's the same reason we don't hear about white people being shot by cops. It doesn't create any unrest.

Rainmaker
07-12-2016, 05:13 PM
Everyone wants to be the first to jump on a story and have "breaking" news without finding out all the facts. That's where a lot of hysterics come from.

Mainstream media is out of control. There seems to be no ethics or morals in journalism or any journalists left.



There are literally hundreds of videos online (like the one below) of blacks going all psycho in American cities on a regular basis.

But, the MSM would rather ignore this problem of rampant black criminality and continue sowing the false narrative that expecting blacks to have to follow the law (or even act like civilized human beings) means that they are living under some sort of racist tyranny.


www.liveleak.com/view?i=3aa_1401132661

waveshaper2
07-12-2016, 05:26 PM
I don't think the traffic stop shooting was "justified." There are ways to de-escalate a situation besides immediately going for their guns. I know it's different in the moment. If you watch when civilians do these shooter scenarios usually they get shot. They aren't expecting it. More facts needed but if they didn't follow protocol in a BOLO stop then I don't think that bodes well.

The other one where they struggled with him and then appear to remove the gun after they shot him...not good either.

My point is when a civilian is shot by police immediately their criminal record is brought up. But that has no bearing on that particular reason they were stopped or pulled over.

Another note - the Stanford kid who sexually assaulted that girl his past criminal history was not initially brought up nor did the media use his mugshot. His swimming record were constantly referred to and after he was convicted of the sexual assault is when I read about the underage drinking and some other things or how he had harassed other women. That's the media problem again mainly though.

I agree with most everything you stated and at this moment in time it doesn't look good for the police officers involved in these shooting. One thing is certain in both these shootings; more info will be forthcoming and the US justice system (for better or worse) takes a long time to run its course.

SomeRandomGuy
07-12-2016, 05:46 PM
The big problem, and the reason it won't ever get fixed, is because every discussion ends up like this one. It blames one side only and justifies the actions of the other.

Nobody is right in this instance. Neither side is justified in doing anything that's been done.

There have been no clearer videos of cops making the wrong decision than there were this week. There have also been no clearer responses than the response of the Dallas shooter and those who are copying him.

The big, overarching problem is that people aren't able to separate the bad ones from the good ones. It's become "all cops" and "all blacks" and we know it's just not true. As has been mentioned several times, the relationship between the community and the cops in Dallas is one of the best in the country.

I don't know how you fix it. There are so many things contributing to the problem. Here are a few:

Segregation...not officially, but our country is still extremely segregated.

Lack of prosecution, or penalty for cops...I understand that cops may feel like they're in danger, but if they are found to have made the wrong decision, there have to be severe consequences.

Better education in urban areas...

Quit telling blacks that whites are the enemy.

There are hundreds more on the list, but the main point is this...both sides are to blame...even if you try to justify why it's not your fault, that doesn't change the fact that the perception of the other side doesn't see it that way. We need to change the perception.

The quickest way to fix the tension between police and the (mostly black) inner-city communities is to end the War on Drugs and stop policing for profit.

After Michael Brown was killed the DOJ opened an investigation into the tactics used by the Fergueson PD. Read this article from CNN about policing for profit.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/06/us/ferguson-missouri-racism-tickets-fines/

The stories in that CNN piece are all too common. Cities will find a reason to arrest someone. They'll then fine that person and put them on probation. They also force the offender to pay for probation costs. The person was already poor to start with. They end up with a warrant for violating their probation which adds more fees.

They can't get a job because their license is suspended from the fines that they owe. A lot of people in this situation will continue to drive on a suspended license. After all, what do more fines matter for anyways? In most states, you can't be put in jail for driving under suspension unless the original suspension was a DUI. So any subsequent DUS charges are just more fines that you'll never pay anyways.

Here's where the police enter the equation. Any contact police have with these people will likely result in an arrest. These people know they have warrants so interactions with police is tense from the get-go. The police officers are also in a bad situation. If they encounter someone with a warrant they can't avoid arresting them but that means the police is just the bully enforcer for big government.

This creates a perpetual cycle where Blacks are afraid of any contact with police. They don't want to pick up some made up charges that will get them stuck in the system perpetually. If they already have a warrant they really don't feel like going to jail so they'll often resist.

Stop policing for profit and the inner cities and the police that work in those areas can build relationships where they are working to achieve the same goal which is reducing violence.

sandsjames
07-12-2016, 06:01 PM
The quickest way to fix the tension between police and the (mostly black) inner-city communities is to end the War on Drugs and stop policing for profit.

After Michael Brown was killed the DOJ opened an investigation into the tactics used by the Fergueson PD. Read this article from CNN about policing for profit.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/06/us/ferguson-missouri-racism-tickets-fines/

The stories in that CNN piece are all too common. Cities will find a reason to arrest someone. They'll then fine that person and put them on probation. They also force the offender to pay for probation costs. The person was already poor to start with. They end up with a warrant for violating their probation which adds more fees.

They can't get a job because their license is suspended from the fines that they owe. A lot of people in this situation will continue to drive on a suspended license. After all, what do more fines matter for anyways? In most states, you can't be put in jail for driving under suspension unless the original suspension was a DUI. So any subsequent DUS charges are just more fines that you'll never pay anyways.

Here's where the police enter the equation. Any contact police have with these people will likely result in an arrest. These people know they have warrants so interactions with police is tense from the get-go. The police officers are also in a bad situation. If they encounter someone with a warrant they can't avoid arresting them but that means the police is just the bully enforcer for big government.

This creates a perpetual cycle where Blacks are afraid of any contact with police. They don't want to pick up some made up charges that will get them stuck in the system perpetually. If they already have a warrant they really don't feel like going to jail so they'll often resist.

Stop policing for profit and the inner cities and the police that work in those areas can build relationships where they are working to achieve the same goal which is reducing violence.

On the other side of things, it's easy not to get arrested, not to get fined, not to lose your license, if you don't do illegal shit.

sparks82
07-12-2016, 06:16 PM
The quickest way to fix the tension between police and the (mostly black) inner-city communities is to end the War on Drugs and stop policing for profit.

After Michael Brown was killed the DOJ opened an investigation into the tactics used by the Fergueson PD. Read this article from CNN about policing for profit.

http://www.cnn.com/2015/03/06/us/ferguson-missouri-racism-tickets-fines/

The stories in that CNN piece are all too common. Cities will find a reason to arrest someone. They'll then fine that person and put them on probation. They also force the offender to pay for probation costs. The person was already poor to start with. They end up with a warrant for violating their probation which adds more fees.

They can't get a job because their license is suspended from the fines that they owe. A lot of people in this situation will continue to drive on a suspended license. After all, what do more fines matter for anyways? In most states, you can't be put in jail for driving under suspension unless the original suspension was a DUI. So any subsequent DUS charges are just more fines that you'll never pay anyways.

Here's where the police enter the equation. Any contact police have with these people will likely result in an arrest. These people know they have warrants so interactions with police is tense from the get-go. The police officers are also in a bad situation. If they encounter someone with a warrant they can't avoid arresting them but that means the police is just the bully enforcer for big government.

This creates a perpetual cycle where Blacks are afraid of any contact with police. They don't want to pick up some made up charges that will get them stuck in the system perpetually. If they already have a warrant they really don't feel like going to jail so they'll often resist.

Stop policing for profit and the inner cities and the police that work in those areas can build relationships where they are working to achieve the same goal which is reducing violence.

This specifically examines Ferguson. Not every city is full of racism and bigotry as Ferguson apparently had or has.

My ex is 34 - same age as me. He has had 4 x DUIs. 2 x burglary felony convictions. Aggravated assault conviction (felony). Unauthorized use of a vehicle conviction and criminal mischief conviction. He is on trial for robbery and use of a deadly weapon. He is on probation for the assault and took the car and caused the damage while on probation and spent time in jail for the violation. He has probation fines he hasn't paid yet. Court costs from that unauthorized use and criminal mischief. This is how all his friends from high school still act. They're drug addicts, alcoholics, divorced. One of his friends went to jail in April for an outstanding warrant - and when the cops came to get him at some Salvation Army he ran. Apparently he runs every time the cops stop him. Real smart.

I'm 34 - and I have had at most 2 x speeding tickets. One I did diversion since it was out of state where my license is. I had a warning a couple months ago and I got lucky on that one but I wasn't paying attention to my speed. I have never been arrested. Both of us are white.

Some people are just fuck ups. Some people just break the law. It's not the legal system's fault that they break the law or the police. Not every case of probation or suspended licenses is due to that person's race and the cop's view. Most of the time the person is breaking the law and someone calls the cops or the cops catch them in the act.

As stated it's really easy to avoid probation and fines in most places - stop breaking the law.

Rainmaker
07-12-2016, 06:18 PM
The quickest way to fix the tension between police and the (mostly black) inner-city communities is to end the War on Drugs and stop policing for profit.



This creates a perpetual cycle where Blacks are afraid of any contact with police.


If they already have a warrant they really don't feel like going to jail so they'll often resist

.
Stop policing for profit and the inner cities and the police that work in those areas can build relationships where they are working to achieve the same goal which is reducing violence.

They could change the law to make all illegal drug possession legal and the racial makeup of the US prison population wouldn’t change a bit.

The correlation between drug use and committing other crimes is well documented. That's because your average thug has poor judgment, low impulse control, low IQ and surprise.... Abuses drugs!

What the "war on drugs" suceeded in doing was in getting these ghetto hood rats into the criminal justice system BEFORE they graduated on to committing other crimes. Which, is precisely why the violent crime rate in this country steadily dropped for 40 years, reaching all-time lows in 2013 until a recent uptick (following the libtard good idea fairy's implementing decriminalization policies).

garhkal
07-12-2016, 06:44 PM
Do you even attempt to understand what I'm saying? I agree with you 100% on this. That doesn't mean that someone has to be held responsible when somebody gets killed and it turns out they didn't have a gun or that they weren't an immediate threat to the police officer's life.

Its not you though SJ, who seems to call for the cops heads on a platter after all these shootings though.


Absolutely...and the only thing that is going to help fix the problem is that, even when it's a tragic accident and not a criminal act, there has to be some repercussions.

Like what. Spend time in jail? Lose his cop job? Get all sorts of death threats, to the point he and what ever family he has, has to move?


He a good boy.

It seems that's all we ever hear out of the mouths of the parents, no matter how many times their 'good boy of a son' had run ins with the cops..


The quickest way to fix the tension between police and the (mostly black) inner-city communities is to end the War on Drugs and stop policing for profit.


Come again? So what then, just treat all drugs as ok??


They can't get a job because their license is suspended from the fines that they owe. A lot of people in this situation will continue to drive on a suspended license. After all, what do more fines matter for anyways? In most states, you can't be put in jail for driving under suspension unless the original suspension was a DUI. So any subsequent DUS charges are just more fines that you'll never pay anyways.


WHich to me is bull. If you are driving on suspended licenses, that should mean time behind bars, even if just in the county clink, rather than full on prison.
And with that sort of attitude, it almost seems like you are all FOR people violating the law, not paying what they are owed, just for the heck of it.. Whata the cops gonna do...

sandsjames
07-12-2016, 07:22 PM
Like what. Spend time in jail? Lose his cop job? Get all sorts of death threats, to the point he and what ever family he has, has to move? I don't know what would be appropriate. Maybe the police chief loses his job. Maybe supervisors get reassigned. Doesn't necessarily have to be jail time. Think about the military. What happens to leaders when their guys screw up?




It seems that's all we ever hear out of the mouths of the parents, no matter how many times their 'good boy of a son' had run ins with the cops.. Of course. What would you expect a parent to say?

Rainmaker
07-12-2016, 07:34 PM
Of course. What would you expect a parent to say?

Lilly white liberals just love making excuses for black criminality.

sandsjames
07-12-2016, 08:16 PM
Lilly white liberals just love making excuses for black criminality.

Lilly white conservatives just love making excuses for racism.

Rainmaker
07-12-2016, 08:27 PM
Lilly white conservatives just love making excuses for racism.

Akks me if I care.

sandsjames
07-12-2016, 08:31 PM
Akks me if I care.No need to...I'm well aware of your feelings about it. If something happens involving a white person and a minority, it's most likely the fault of the minority and, even if it's not, the minority shouldn't have put themselves in that situation to start. If that boy had only known his place he'd still be alive.

Is that about right?

sparks82
07-12-2016, 08:32 PM
I don't know what would be appropriate. Maybe the police chief loses his job. Maybe supervisors get reassigned. Doesn't necessarily have to be jail time. Think about the military. What happens to leaders when their guys screw up?



Of course. What would you expect a parent to say?

Depends on their rank...but usually at least their NCO faces some type of counseling or punishment as well sometimes. Maybe up to company or BN commander depending on the crime. At the very least, every NCO in the unit gets an ass chewing when one soldier screws up.

I know that one weekend I had brigade staff duty. The brigade commander called in and said that he wanted me to call every BN CSM and tell them that if any of their soldiers got in trouble for any alcohol related offense that the soldier's entire platoon, company command and battalion command (1SG, CO/CSM/CDR) would have "extra training" with the brigade commander on the following Saturday morning. I can't remember if anyone got in trouble that weekend. I feel like someone called in from courtesy patrol that there was a soldier ticketed for open container or something? To call their staff duty to have someone come pick him up? That was 2 years ago but I do remember the call from BDE CDR and calling all the CSMs on a Friday night.

Perhaps something like that?

sparks82
07-12-2016, 08:38 PM
Its not you though SJ, who seems to call for the cops heads on a platter after all these shootings though.



Like what. Spend time in jail? Lose his cop job? Get all sorts of death threats, to the point he and what ever family he has, has to move?



It seems that's all we ever hear out of the mouths of the parents, no matter how many times their 'good boy of a son' had run ins with the cops..



Come again? So what then, just treat all drugs as ok??



WHich to me is bull. If you are driving on suspended licenses, that should mean time behind bars, even if just in the county clink, rather than full on prison.
And with that sort of attitude, it almost seems like you are all FOR people violating the law, not paying what they are owed, just for the heck of it.. Whata the cops gonna do...

Nearly any parent says that about their kid - or neighbors. How many times do we see a serial killer gets caught and everyone says "He was always such a nice boy." It happens among any ethnicity, gender, skin color, etc. Parents never want to see the worst in their kids. My ex mother in law kept telling me how "good" my ex was doing the two weeks he lived with her a month ago. After getting out of jail. Relapsing on meth. Then went back to jail for probation violation. Now I'm pretty sure he stole from her or something because after texting her about her seeing our daughter she just says "I guess I am getting what I deserve."

Some parents have blinders on; some don't. When my one older brother shoplifted from Shopko in high school and the cops called him, he said "Keep him in there as long as you can." By the time he picked him up, he was crying and he never shoplifted again...if he did I didn't know about it or he never got caught. But I don't think he did.

I think I just read an article about a woman who worked at a daycare and raped four little kids at the daycare (yep a woman) and her mom said "I never thought she would be capable." (And the daycare worker's lawyer has blamed it on her abusive boyfriend who "made" her rape those kids and film it for him). Some parents are naïve, some aren't. Some don't really know their kids.

sparks82
07-12-2016, 08:39 PM
Holy shit Rainmaker liked one of my posts. Is this a sign of the end times? It has to mean something apocalyptic...

Rainmaker
07-12-2016, 08:57 PM
Holy shit Rainmaker liked one of my posts. Is this a sign of the end times? It has to mean something apocalyptic...

You had me at Hello.

Rainmaker
07-12-2016, 09:18 PM
If something happens involving a white person and a minority, it's most likely the fault of the minority


Yes it is (and the statistics bear that out). According to the FBI over 20,000 White Women are raped by Black Men annually. But, the media chooses to ignore it, and instead makes a national issue out of the 234 Black criminals killed annually by police (99% of which are Justified and over 1/2 at the Hands of BLACK Cops).

The only thing worse than this constant drum beat of Anti-White propaganda being pushed are these pathetic, liberal, white morons that just LOVE to gobble it up.




and, even if it's not, the minority shouldn't have put themselves in that situation to start. If that boy had only known his place he'd still be alive.

The girlfriend said that cop told him to keep his hands up, and not reach for the gun;

The cop said that he told him to keep his hands up, and not reach for the gun;

The girlfriend said he reached for his wallet, and End of story;

A cop shooting you when he tells you to keep your hands up, might be found to be justifiable homicide under the law.


Is that about right?

Yep, By the way......Along with an armed boyfriend (with a criminal record) the girlfriend also had a baby daughter and weed in the car. There are consequences for being a dumbass.

sandsjames
07-12-2016, 10:29 PM
Yep, By the way......Along with an armed boyfriend (with a criminal record) the girlfriend also had a baby daughter and weed in the car. There are consequences for being a dumbass.Of course there are consequences...that doesn't mean the consequences have to be death.

garhkal
07-12-2016, 11:11 PM
I don't know what would be appropriate. Maybe the police chief loses his job. Maybe supervisors get reassigned. Doesn't necessarily have to be jail time. Think about the military. What happens to leaders when their guys screw up?


That depends on the screw up. A sailor under my charge gets done for a DUI, nothing other than coming in on a weekend for a mass command ass chewing.. Gets done for violating security classification stuff, maybe i get a reprimand.



Of course. What would you expect a parent to say?

Not that 'hes such a good boy' after seeing THAT laundry list of crimes.. I am sorry, but after the first crime, imo he's no longer a good boy.


Lilly white conservatives just love making excuses for racism.

Sorry, but how is it racism to ask parents to STOP bloody well have blinders on, when it comes to the criminal acts your offspring has? If he has 3+ crimes on his (or her) sheet, they are no longer a 'good boy'..


Nearly any parent says that about their kid - or neighbors. How many times do we see a serial killer gets caught and everyone says "He was always such a nice boy." It happens among any ethnicity, gender, skin color, etc. Parents never want to see the worst in their kids. My ex mother in law kept telling me how "good" my ex was doing the two weeks he lived with her a month ago. After getting out of jail. Relapsing on meth. Then went back to jail for probation violation. Now I'm pretty sure he stole from her or something because after texting her about her seeing our daughter she just says "I guess I am getting what I deserve."


And that imo is where the issue lies, we have too many parents who not just dont want to see the bad in their offspring but CAN'T or more likely WON'T...


When my one older brother shoplifted from Shopko in high school and the cops called him, he said "Keep him in there as long as you can." By the time he picked him up, he was crying and he never shoplifted again...if he did I didn't know about it or he never got caught. But I don't think he did.

I always love hearing stories like that. Tough love parenting. As a kid i stole twice before getting caught. Got a MAJOR ass spanking from both my mom, and then my dad. NEVER stole again.

sandsjames
07-12-2016, 11:18 PM
That depends on the screw up. A sailor under my charge gets done for a DUI, nothing other than coming in on a weekend for a mass command ass chewing.. Gets done for violating security classification stuff, maybe i get a reprimand. How 'bout if your sailor fires a bullet into someone because he felt his life was on the line but it turned out that it actually wasn't? Then, another sailor does the same thing. Then another? I'm betting that the person in command would no longer be in command.




Not that 'hes such a good boy' after seeing THAT laundry list of crimes.. I am sorry, but after the first crime, imo he's no longer a good boy. Well, that's a little harsh. You just stated that you stole TWICE...now your saying that after the "first crime" someone is no longer a "good boy"? So I guess the cops should expect you to pull out a gun and shoot them if you get pulled over?




Sorry, but how is it racism to ask parents to STOP bloody well have blinders on, when it comes to the criminal acts your offspring has? If he has 3+ crimes on his (or her) sheet, they are no longer a 'good boy'.. It's racism to ALWAYS side with the cops and against the dead black kids...ALWAYS...EVERY TIME. It's just not possible, mathematically, that these cops are never in the wrong. Not possible.








I always love hearing stories like that. Tough love parenting. As a kid i stole twice before getting caught. Got a MAJOR ass spanking from both my mom, and then my dad. NEVER stole again.But you stole twice...so you definitely aren't a good boy...by your own standards.

garhkal
07-12-2016, 11:25 PM
How 'bout if your sailor fires a bullet into someone because he felt his life was on the line but it turned out that it actually wasn't? Then, another sailor does the same thing. Then another? I'm betting that the person in command would no longer be in command.

After the first time, i could easily see the leaders holding some sort of meeting. After 2+, you betcha he would no longer be there..




Well, that's a little harsh. You just stated that you stole TWICE...now your saying that after the "first crime" someone is no longer a "good boy"? So I guess the cops should expect you to pull out a gun and shoot them if you get pulled over?

Being i don't own one (other than BB guns i keep at home), they have no fear of that from me..
BUT maybe my 1 crime and you are no longer a good boy was a little harsh...



It's racism to ALWAYS side with the cops and against the dead black kids...ALWAYS...EVERY TIME. It's just not possible, mathematically, that these cops are never in the wrong. Not possible.


When time after time we SEE it after all the facts come out, that they were NOT in the wrong, then my siding with them isn't wrong.

sandsjames
07-12-2016, 11:38 PM
After the first time, i could easily see the leaders holding some sort of meeting. After 2+, you betcha he would no longer be there.. Exactly, and that's what needs to happen in these cases where it turns out that the person wasn't actually the threat that the cops thought he was, even if they are found to have been justified in the shooting.





Being i don't own one (other than BB guns i keep at home), they have no fear of that from me..
BUT maybe my 1 crime and you are no longer a good boy was a little harsh... As a cop, how would I know that? You don't have to register it when you purchase. You can legally buy one. Shouldn't the cop always assume you have one, just to be safe?




When time after time we SEE it after all the facts come out, that they were NOT in the wrong, then my siding with them isn't wrong.I know you probably don't care, but the President's speech today at the funeral was outstanding. He did a great job of criticizing and supporting both sides. If you didn't here it, you should listen to it.

Mjölnir
07-13-2016, 01:42 AM
Exactly, and that's what needs to happen in these cases where it turns out that the person wasn't actually the threat that the cops thought he was, even if they are found to have been justified in the shooting.

A lot of what is getting left out is determining why the officer (guard, sentry, rifleman on patrol etc.) thought the decedent was a threat.

One of the first questions that will be asked is if the decedent was not responsive, cooperative or compliant to verbal, visual or written instructions. If the answer is yes, then there is an effort to determine why: was the decedent impaired (drugs, alcohol, medical etc.). Unable to understand (language barrier, blind or deaf). Was the decedent agitated, aggressive or combative?

It can turn out that a decedent was not a threat, but was perceived as a threat because of their actions, and as soon as that happens a law enforcement officer (sentry etc.) has a legal right (sometimes obligation or duty) to negate that. Just because the call turns out to have been a bad call doesn't mean that it was the wrong call. Punishing the individual for the right procedural response (justified incident) but bad call is putting accountability on the wrong person / people. Generally the jurisdiction is assuming responsibility in the form of a settlement with the family, however the public still wants the individual punished for for being the action arm of the 'state'. This is a politization of punishment to satisfy the populist mentality -- which migrates us from a nation of laws to a nation of populist sentiment.

It is the job of law enforcement to risk their lives in their role to protect and serve the community, it is not their job to take a needless risk with a noncompliant individual.


I know you probably don't care, but the President's speech today at the funeral was outstanding. He did a great job of criticizing and supporting both sides. If you didn't here it, you should listen to it.

It was a good speech, I would say that the time for the President to be political (criticizing either side) should have been at any podium other than the funeral. Honoring the 5 officers could have been done without criticizing the anti cop movement or mistakes by law enforcement (akin to using the funeral of a soldier to crucifer the war).

Rainmaker
07-13-2016, 04:07 AM
I would say that the time for the President to be political (criticizing either side) should have been at any podium other than the funeral.

Politicizing Funerals is the modus operandi for this POS. How many times in the past 8 years now have we seen him show up at a funeral and lobby for gun control?


And for 2 terms he's been whipping up hatred against the police in particular and white Americans in general, even meeting with these violent Black Lives Matter leaders in the White house and singing their praises

...Then after his race baiting finally results in a massacre, He shows up in front of the families of the victims and rubs salt in the wounds (by invoking the legacy of slavery and Jim Crow) in some veiled attempt at legitimatizing their murders.

garhkal
07-13-2016, 04:45 AM
A lot of what is getting left out is determining why the officer (guard, sentry, rifleman on patrol etc.) thought the decedent was a threat.

One of the first questions that will be asked is if the decedent was not responsive, cooperative or compliant to verbal, visual or written instructions. If the answer is yes, then there is an effort to determine why: was the decedent impaired (drugs, alcohol, medical etc.). Unable to understand (language barrier, blind or deaf). Was the decedent agitated, aggressive or combative?

When in Bahrain being trained for the base's Aux security force, one of the first things we had drumbed into our heads, was that IF we ever pulled a trigger and shot someone, we would have to answer for EACH and every bullet that left our barrel.. If we could not recite verbatim the rules for deadly force, the rules of escalation of force AND why we felt deadly force was used, we would be done.. period...


Just because the call turns out to have been a bad call doesn't mean that it was the wrong call. Punishing the individual for the right procedural response (justified incident) but bad call is putting accountability on the wrong person / people.

Exactly. Its IMO pandering to the mob..
If something's rotten with it, change the procedure.

G
enerally the jurisdiction is assuming responsibility in the form of a settlement with the family, however the public still wants the individual punished for for being the action arm of the 'state'. This is a politization of punishment to satisfy the populist mentality -- which migrates us from a nation of laws to a nation of populist sentiment.

Heck, imo if the shooting is determined by a court as justified (or grand jury so no charges get filed), i don't see why the state should pay out..
And if it was a wrong shooting, then make the COP(s) who did it pay out, rather than the state and thusly all the tax payers.



It was a good speech, I would say that the time for the President to be political (criticizing either side) should have been at any podium other than the funeral. Honoring the 5 officers could have been done without criticizing the anti cop movement or mistakes by law enforcement (akin to using the funeral of a soldier to crucifer the war).

I agree. Heck he has yet to show up at any of the OTHER funerals for cops shot in the line of duty, some times assassinated by BLM supporting thugs.. So what made this one that much different he felt he had to show up at?

garhkal
07-13-2016, 06:04 AM
Getting back to the Dallas issue. I just found out that the 1993 (sorry misquoted that part) Miss Black Alabama (sorry but why have a separate ms black anything when there's plenty of blacks in ms America etc), is in the news for PRAISING the Dallas shooter, calling him a Martyr, and saying its hard to be sad about the lost cops (and civilians) lives.

And the sickest (IMO) part of it all is supposedly many commenters on her video are actually Congratulating her for saying this!??? What the heck over..

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/nation-now/2016/07/12/first-black-miss-alabama-calls-dallas-shooter-martyr-facbeook-live-post/86979620/

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/former-miss-alabama-calls-dallas-shooter-a-martyr-w212745

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/07/12/former-miss-alabama-calls-dallas-cop-shooter-martyr.html

You can bet, if a Ms white anything had said the same thing after Dillan Roof shot up that church in Charleston, there would have been hell to pay, and NO one would be complementing her video..



And linked, when the heck did a companies Employee, start becoming "Independent contractor"??

sandsjames
07-13-2016, 11:40 AM
A lot of what is getting left out is determining why the officer (guard, sentry, rifleman on patrol etc.) thought the decedent was a threat.

One of the first questions that will be asked is if the decedent was not responsive, cooperative or compliant to verbal, visual or written instructions. If the answer is yes, then there is an effort to determine why: was the decedent impaired (drugs, alcohol, medical etc.). Unable to understand (language barrier, blind or deaf). Was the decedent agitated, aggressive or combative?

It can turn out that a decedent was not a threat, but was perceived as a threat because of their actions, and as soon as that happens a law enforcement officer (sentry etc.) has a legal right (sometimes obligation or duty) to negate that. Just because the call turns out to have been a bad call doesn't mean that it was the wrong call. Punishing the individual for the right procedural response (justified incident) but bad call is putting accountability on the wrong person / people. Generally the jurisdiction is assuming responsibility in the form of a settlement with the family, however the public still wants the individual punished for for being the action arm of the 'state'. This is a politization of punishment to satisfy the populist mentality -- which migrates us from a nation of laws to a nation of populist sentiment.

It is the job of law enforcement to risk their lives in their role to protect and serve the community, it is not their job to take a needless risk with a noncompliant individual. I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. I'll say this one last time. The point I'm making is that there are people, including people in here, who will immediately defend the cops and immediately blame the black suspect every single time. There is only one reason that happens, and it's not because of a need to support police officers.

I realize that the police have split second decisions to make. I realize that hesitation could cost them their lives. I'm not arguing that. We agree on that.

I'm simply saying that sometimes, just maybe even once, it was the fault of the cop and he got away with killing a kid who wasn't a threat.

If we can't agree that it might just be a possibility that that has been the case in at least one of these shootings then I don't know what the fuck is going on.




It was a good speech, I would say that the time for the President to be political (criticizing either side) should have been at any podium other than the funeral. Honoring the 5 officers could have been done without criticizing the anti cop movement or mistakes by law enforcement (akin to using the funeral of a soldier to crucifer the war).I thought he did a great job. If they want a memorial that's not political, don't invite political figures, including THE political figure, and expect them not to be political.

Mjölnir
07-13-2016, 11:40 AM
I agree. Heck he has yet to show up at any of the OTHER funerals for cops shot in the line of duty, some times assassinated by BLM supporting thugs.. So what made this one that much different he felt he had to show up at?

He was invited by the mayor. Not sure how many other funerals he has been invited to.

The first half of the speech was good. The second half was the political statement to the nation (obviously this was going to be a big event. Understanding that in politics you "never let a crisis go to waste" POTUS used the second half of the speech to bring up gun control, racism, abuses by police (without addressing the statistical relationship to those committing crimes in society), and criticize some of the BLM movement. IMO, the second half of the speech should have been anywhere other than the funeral but it needed to be given; probably including statements of fact and statistics over false allegorical comments "easier to get a gun than a book". POTUS can literally command every major network to televise a speech, the political speech could have been an hour later from Air Force one or last night from the Oval Office, separating the policy and political debate from a memorial service.

I don't have issue with POTUS meeting with BLM, but wish he would challenge them to address the issue in a more macro sense instead of just focusing on the (again, statistically small) incidents with police. Things he could address that are huge challenges to the black community:

-the fact that the leading cause of death for black males age 18-30 is violence by other black males.
-the fact that blacks are a statistical minority of populstion but commit a statistical majority of crime.
-the lack of minority representation in police departments.
-the fact that 3/4 of black children are born to a low income & single mother, initiating a low income employment and life cycle.
-the poor quality of urban / inner city education systems despite federally augmented funding that increases spending per student to a level on par with more successful (rural) school systems.
-the lack of desire for accountability for school boards, PTAs and local governments that have failed to sufficiently educate the majority of inner city children ... Perpetuating a cycle of low income employment.
-the lack of inner city support for school vouchers which could allow parents to pull children from poorly performing schools and place them in better performing (and safer) schools.
-the lack of inner city participation in federally funded college education programs (these programs are hardly used by those that most need them).

In looking at the stated goals of BLM, much of it is understandable and reasonable; what the organization fails to truly acknowledge, address or put effort into is that many issues that could improve the black community are not imposed on the back community but are WITHIN the black community .…. Specifically the urban / inner city black community.

POTUS has the largest platform in the world from which to address these issues, but instead is focusing on a micro issue because of the populist nature of it. Leadership isn't telling people what they want to hear, he should challenge them by telling them what they need to hear.

Mjölnir
07-13-2016, 11:56 AM
I feel like I'm talking to a brick wall. I'll say this one last time. The point I'm making is that there are people, including people in here, who will immediately defend the cops and immediately blame the black suspect every single time. There is only one reason that happens, and it's not because of a need to support police officers.

I realize that the police have split second decisions to make. I realize that hesitation could cost them their lives. I'm not arguing that. We agree on that.

I'm simply saying that sometimes, just maybe even once, it was the fault of the cop and he got away with killing a kid who wasn't a threat.

If we can't agree that it might just be a possibility that that has been the case in at least one of these shootings then I don't know what the fuck is going on.

I completely understand what you are saying. Yes, sometimes police make a bad call, and are not prosecuted for it. I don't doubt that some even 'get away' with things. My stance (my turn to talk to a brick wall) is that if the actions of the officer did not violate the law or established procedure, blaming the individual is the wrong avenue. You seem to be arguing for some type of punishment on the individual even when they have not done anything incorrectly or wrong.

If you want the law or procedure changed, then get the support and get it changed. But saying the individual should still be punished to placate the sentiment of the populace is not the right or lawful thing to do.

Case in point: Michael Brown, Ferguson MO. The local grand jury, state's prosecutor, federal prosecutor nor the Department of Justice after picking apart the incident for months could find anything to fault the individual for, plenty of issues with the department and a revenue generating method of policing, but the actions of the officer were exactly in line with what he should have done.

sandsjames
07-13-2016, 12:11 PM
I completely understand what you are saying. Yes, sometimes police make a bad call, and are not prosecuted for it. I don't doubt that some even 'get away' with things. My stance (my turn to talk to a brick wall) is that if the actions of the officer did not violate the law or established procedure, blaming the individual is the wrong avenue. You seem to be arguing for some type of punishment on the individual even when they have not done anything incorrectly or wrong.

If you want the law or procedure changed, then get the support and get it changed. But saying the individual should still be punished to placate the sentiment of the populace is not the right or lawful thing to do.

Case in point: Michael Brown, Ferguson MO. The local grand jury, state's prosecutor, federal prosecutor nor the Department of Justice after picking apart the incident for months could find anything to fault the individual for, plenty of issues with the department and a revenue generating method of policing, but the actions of the officer were exactly in line with what he should have done.

Simple here, then I'm done, I'm out, cuz faith in humanity is gone and of course I wouldn't expect someone in a leadership position to blame the procedure...if a person gets shot and they weren't actually a threat to the life of the cop, like the video clearly shows in Baton Rouge (2 hands clearly not near a gun) then someone needs to suffer the consequences.

For fucks sake, if I shoot someone entering my property and it turns out that they weren't actually a threat to me then I can be prosecuting (in several States) for manslaughter or worse). If we can't expect the same of our justice system, of our legal system, of our sworn public servants, then we are fucked beyond all belief.

But you guys keep finding an excuse to find a way out for the cop, even if he made the wrong (even if justified) call.

sandsjames
07-13-2016, 12:16 PM
-the fact that the leading cause of death for black males age 18-30 is violence by other black males. Not relevant to cops shooting suspects.


-the fact that blacks are a statistical minority of populstion but commit a statistical majority of crime. Not relevant to cops shooting suspects


-the lack of minority representation in police departments. Not relevant...several of the cops involved in the shootings are black


-the fact that 3/4 of black children are born to a low income & single mother, initiating a low income employment and life cycle. Not relevant to cops shooting suspects


-the poor quality of urban / inner city education systems despite federally augmented funding that increases spending per student to a level on par with more successful (rural) school systems. Not relevant to cops shooting suspects


-the lack of desire for accountability for school boards, PTAs and local governments that have failed to sufficiently educate the majority of inner city children ... Perpetuating a cycle of low income employment. Not relevant to cops shooting suspects

{QUOTE]-the lack of inner city support for school vouchers which could allow parents to pull children from poorly performing schools and place them in better performing (and safer) schools.
-the lack of inner city participation in federally funded college education programs (these programs are hardly used by those that most need them).[/QUOTE] None of it relevant to cops shooting suspects.


In looking at the stated goals of BLM, much of it is understandable and reasonable; what the organization fails to truly acknowledge, address or put effort into is that many issues that could improve the black community are not imposed on the back community but are WITHIN the black community .…. Specifically the urban / inner city black community. None of this justifies a cop shooting a suspect


POTUS has the largest platform in the world from which to address these issues, but instead is focusing on a micro issue because of the populist nature of it. Leadership isn't telling people what they want to hear, he should challenge them by telling them what they need to hear.None of it will stop cops shooting suspects.

Being in the military, I've been to several briefings about DUIs, Sexual Assault, Suicide, etc, yet for some reason, they still continue to happen. Maybe we just need more briefings.

Mjölnir
07-13-2016, 12:25 PM
Simple here, then I'm done, I'm out, cuz faith in humanity is gone and of course I wouldn't expect someone in a leadership position to blame the procedure...if a person gets shot and they weren't actually a threat to the life of the cop, like the video clearly shows in Baton Rouge (2 hands clearly not near a gun) then someone needs to suffer the consequences.

For fucks sake, if I shoot someone entering my property and it turns out that they weren't actually a threat to me then I can be prosecuting (in several States) for manslaughter or worse). If we can't expect the same of our justice system, of our legal system, of our sworn public servants, then we are fucked beyond all belief.

But you guys keep finding an excuse to find a way out for the cop, even if he made the wrong (even if justified) call.

There you go, my 'wrong' opinion is because I am in a leadership position. Officer hate. Ironically I am the one saying blame the procedure and fix it ... You are saying blame the individual.

So, we send a generator mechanic to a school, train them how to fix a generator, provide them manuals and certification on their job. The go out to fix the generator and fuck it up because it turns out the training is wrong or the manual is wrong. Your logic is that we should fault the individual and not the training or the manual.

Mjölnir
07-13-2016, 12:37 PM
Not relevant to cops shooting suspects.

Not relevant to cops shooting suspects

Not relevant...several of the cops involved in the shootings are black

Not relevant to cops shooting suspects

Not relevant to cops shooting suspects

Not relevant to cops shooting suspects

{QUOTE]-the lack of inner city support for school vouchers which could allow parents to pull children from poorly performing schools and place them in better performing (and safer) schools.
-the lack of inner city participation in federally funded college education programs (these programs are hardly used by those that most need them). None of it relevant to cops shooting suspects.

None of this justifies a cop shooting a suspect

None of it will stop cops shooting suspects.

Being in the military, I've been to several briefings about DUIs, Sexual Assault, Suicide, etc, yet for some reason, they still continue to happen. Maybe we just need more briefings.


Actually, if you read the post and see I am talking about the macro issue and not just police shooting people you may get the point. I will purposefully be the condescending person you often say I am ... From what you have said of your experience you know little of how engaging an individual and ROE work, you likely have not been involved in it nor examining an engagement after the fact. Yes, a wrong call that takes a life is tragic and if a law is broken etc. punish the holy hell out the person that did it. But to want to punish the person who took the hard job, made a hard decision and now lives with it is cowardly. You want the system to be better ... Stop fixing generators or teaching it and go be a volunteer or auxiliary police officer ... You may learn something.

sandsjames
07-13-2016, 01:11 PM
There you go, my 'wrong' opinion is because I am in a leadership position. Officer hate. Ironically I am the one saying blame the procedure and fix it ... You are saying blame the individual. I never said blame the individual. I can see your reading skills are at the same level as mine. I said that someone in the system, not necessarily the cop, needs to be held responsible. If that's the person that lays out the procedures, so be it.


So, we send a generator mechanic to a school, train them how to fix a generator, provide them manuals and certification on their job. The go out to fix the generator and fuck it up because it turns out the training is wrong or the manual is wrong. Your logic is that we should fault the individual and not the training or the manual.Not at all. Please go back and read. The person writing the manual needs to be held responsible.

However, if it's a trained mechanic, (which it would be if he's out working on the job) then he should recognize that the procedure is wrong and stop before fucking something up.

sandsjames
07-13-2016, 01:19 PM
Actually, if you read the post and see I am talking about the macro issue and not just police shooting people you may get the point. I will purposefully be the condescending person you often say I am ... From what you have said of your experience you know little of how engaging an individual and ROE work, you likely have not been involved in it nor examining an engagement after the fact. Yes, a wrong call that takes a life is tragic and if a law is broken etc. punish the holy hell out the person that did it. But to want to punish the person who took the hard job, made a hard decision and now lives with it is cowardly. You want the system to be better ... Stop fixing generators or teaching it and go be a volunteer or auxiliary police officer ... You may learn something.

You just fail to listen. Typical. Not once have I blamed the cop. NOT ONCE. I empathize with both parties, something that obviously few people on this forum, or in our country, are able to do. But the fact is that the cop is in the position of authority. The police department is in the position of authority over the cop, and so on...I'll assume you understand chain of command. Those at the top need to be held accountable when something goes wrong.

It's ironic that we live with a justice system that says "innocent until proven guilty" yet a cop gets to impose the death penalty without due process, and it results, most times, with zero consequences to the entire chain of command.

I wouldn't become a police officer. I'm not equipped to make those decisions that would put me in that situation. I joined the Air Force, instead of the other services, for that very reason.

The issue is that the process is messed up and what do we expect from blacks when EVERY SINGLE TIME the police officer gets off Scott free, even if it seems warranted? It's like a basketball or football game. If the refs are continually calling penalties/fouls on one team and never on the other then the perception is going to be that the refs are biased.

Of course the response is "If you don't want a foul called, don't foul" and that's fine, on a small level. But when it's that way in every game a team plays in throughout the entire season then there is obviously something wrong.

Mjölnir
07-13-2016, 01:56 PM
I wouldn't become a police officer. I'm not equipped to make those decisions that would put me in that situation. I joined the Air Force, instead of the other services, for that very reason.

But, you are more than willing to civilize and critique those who do and make those decisions.

Your position may be a bit different if you were not ignorant on those situations.


The issue is that the process is messed up and what do we expect from blacks when EVERY SINGLE TIME the police officer gets off Scott free, even if it seems warranted? It's like a basketball or football game. If the refs are continually calling penalties/fouls on one team and never on the other then the perception is going to be that the refs are biased.

Police don't get off every single time, just google it; many are prosecuted/held accountable for bad decisions.

That bold part right there. Even when warranted (justified, per the law, in accordance with training and procedure) you don't think the police officer should get off "Scott free".

Rainmaker
07-13-2016, 02:55 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kNf7g13284E

sandsjames
07-13-2016, 02:56 PM
But, you are more than willing to civilize and critique those who do and make those decisions.

Your position may be a bit different if you were not ignorant on those situations. No doubt that it takes a certain type of person with a certain type of ego to hold those positions and make decisions in those situations and I've been very clear, several times, that it's not in my tool box to do so.




Police don't get off every single time, just google it; many are prosecuted/held accountable for bad decisions. Nope...just in every single high profile case that gets reported on.


That bold part right there. Even when warranted (justified, per the law, in accordance with training and procedure) you don't think the police officer should get off "Scott free".For FUCKS SAKE...of course the police officer shouldn't be prosecuted if he followed correct procedure...My argument is that it's just not possible for them to always, legitimately, be justified in their actions.

I'm blaming the system which, if you had even a little bit of empathy for "the other side", can easily be perceived as being rigged.

Luckily for you and others, like Garkhal and RM, you're rooting for the team who the referees are making the calls in favor of...while forgetting that you'd see it differently if you were on the team getting all the calls made against it.

Mjölnir
07-13-2016, 03:35 PM
No doubt that it takes a certain type of person with a certain type of ego to hold those positions and make decisions in those situations and I've been very clear, several times, that it's not in my tool box to do so.

It is not ego. Decision making or putting yourself on the line for others is far from having an ego. It is odd that you equate it to ego, but not surprising nor do I expect you to understand.



Nope...just in every single high profile case that gets reported on.

So your sample size is limited to the sensationalized stories that will generate ratings. Check.


For FUCKS SAKE...of course the police officer shouldn't be prosecuted if he followed correct procedure...My argument is that it's just not possible for them to always, legitimately, be justified in their actions.

I'm blaming the system which, if you had even a little bit of empathy for "the other side", can easily be perceived as being rigged.

For "fucks sake" read what you write. No you aren't saying they should be prosecuted for having done no wrong, they should just be held accountable, not get off "Scott free" or something to that effect. So punish them, but don't punish them. Don't prosecute them, persecute them ... Which is it?

Also, the system is perceived as being rigged, does that mean it is rigged? Again, it may seem rigged that an officer, sworn as an agent of the State is granted the ability to exercise deadly force when threatened or when dealing with a potentially life threatening situation (real or not). The best way to not be perceived as a threat by that officer is to be utterly ... Maybe overly compliant and sort the situation out.

A police officer says put your hands in the air, suspect reaches behind back to pull something out. Officer now has less than .5 seconds to shoot or not shoot and is at a disadvantage in not knowing why the suspect is not compliant nor what they are reaching for (gun, wallet, flowers). As the officer tells the suspect again to put their hands in the air their hand begins to move from behind their back ... If the officer shot, yes ... I would back that decision up 100% of the time whether the suspect had a gun or not. Not because it is race based, about sides, demographics etc. it is about complying with the direction of a peace officer so you aren't perceived as a threat. Whenever I interact with police, security etc. I do / don't do certain things so as to not be perceived as a threat ... None of my interactions have been in the heat of an agitated confrontation, but I still don't reach into my pockets or jacket, keep hands visible and listen to what I am told to do because doing that you are much more likely to have zero issues. The incident in MN may have been a severe error on the part of the officer, the Baton Rouge incident may not be cut and dry.


Luckily for you and others, like Garkhal and RM, you're rooting for the team who the referees are making the calls in favor of...while forgetting that you'd see it differently if you were on the team getting all the calls made against it.

I am not sure if you are talking about one specific incident or the larger issue, you go back and forth.

I am not against either side, but you want the discussion to be that way for some odd reason. I can be both in against the unjustified shooting of innocent people, empathetic to the victims and their families but know and understand that the situations that law enforcement is put in is a lose-lose, especially to people who don't have a clue about life and death decisions. You are truly failing on an epic level to understand that the best information available in real time to a police officer may get someone who was not truly a deadly threat but perceived to be a deadly threat killed.

sandsjames
07-13-2016, 04:06 PM
It is not ego. Decision making or putting yourself on the line for others is far from having an ego. It is odd that you equate it to ego, but not surprising nor do I expect you to understand. "Nor do I expect you to understand."...right, but it's not ego.

For you to fail to see that it's necessary for a person in your position to have an ego is pretty shocking. Though you've already shown your inability to see yourself from the outside.





So your sample size is limited to the sensationalized stories that will generate ratings. Check. That is the reality of what the majority of the people are seeing. Why do you think the military overreacts to sexual assaults? Because it's what gets publicized.




For "fucks sake" read what you write. No you aren't saying they should be prosecuted for having done no wrong, they should just be held accountable, not get off "Scott free" or something to that effect. So punish them, but don't punish them. Don't prosecute them, persecute them ... Which is it? Someone needs to be prosecuted. The cops have to have better judgment and be the professional. That doesn't mean that they are the ones at fault.


Also, the system is perceived as being rigged, does that mean it is rigged? Doesn't matter if it is or not. That's the perception. Empathy would allow you to understand that perception. People perceive the guy with the wrinkled uniform as being lesser than the guy with the pressed uniform...doesn't mean it's true...but it is perceived that way.


Again, it may seem rigged that an officer, sworn as an agent of the State is granted the ability to exercise deadly force when threatened or when dealing with a potentially life threatening situation (real or not). The best way to not be perceived as a threat by that officer is to be utterly ... Maybe overly compliant and sort the situation out. We agree on this. Compliance would help...but non-compliance does not equate to deadly force.


A police officer says put your hands in the air, suspect reaches behind back to pull something out. Officer now has less than .5 seconds to shoot or not shoot and is at a disadvantage in not knowing why the suspect is not compliant nor what they are reaching for (gun, wallet, flowers). As the officer tells the suspect again to put their hands in the air their hand begins to move from behind their back ... If the officer shot, yes ... I would back that decision up 100% of the time whether the suspect had a gun or not. Not because it is race based, about sides, demographics etc. it is about complying with the direction of a peace officer so you aren't perceived as a threat. Whenever I interact with police, security etc. I do / don't do certain things so as to not be perceived as a threat ... None of my interactions have been in the heat of an agitated confrontation, but I still don't reach into my pockets or jacket, keep hands visible and listen to what I am told to do because doing that you are much more likely to have zero issues. The incident in MN may have been a severe error on the part of the officer, the Baton Rouge incident may not be cut and dry. We can "what if" all day but none of it will fix the issues at hand.




I am not sure if you are talking about one specific incident or the larger issue, you go back and forth. I'm talking about the larger issue while using the specific incidents as examples. It's how you make people understand what you're talking about. It's basically "Instructing 101" but you wouldn't know anything about that cuz you haven't been properly trained on it.


I am not against either side, but you want the discussion to be that way for some odd reason. I can be both in against the unjustified shooting of innocent people, empathetic to the victims and their families but know and understand that the situations that law enforcement is put in is a lose-lose, especially to people who don't have a clue about life and death decisions. You are truly failing on an epic level to understand that the best information available in real time to a police officer may get someone who was not truly a deadly threat but perceived to be a deadly threat killed.We agree on this. It is a lose-lose for the officer. And I understand that the real time is very, very difficult. That does not immediately remove responsibility when the real time decision was wrong and it definitely doesn't mean that we have to always accept the real time decision as the right decision.

A police officer should be willing to lose there life before taking the life of another in an "unsure" situation. If they aren't willing to do so then they shouldn't be cops. As has been said, I'm not claiming it's an easy decision. I'm not claiming that cops can always get it right...but the fact that the cop is the professional means that there must be an absolute clear line (just as with prosecuting an individual in court) of no reasonable doubt.

Mjölnir
07-13-2016, 05:11 PM
"Nor do I expect you to understand."...right, but it's not ego.

For you to fail to see that it's necessary for a person in your position to have an ego is pretty shocking. Though you've already shown your inability to see yourself from the outside.




That is the reality of what the majority of the people are seeing. Why do you think the military overreacts to sexual assaults? Because it's what gets publicized.



Someone needs to be prosecuted. The cops have to have better judgment and be the professional. That doesn't mean that they are the ones at fault.

Doesn't matter if it is or not. That's the perception. Empathy would allow you to understand that perception. People perceive the guy with the wrinkled uniform as being lesser than the guy with the pressed uniform...doesn't mean it's true...but it is perceived that way.

We agree on this. Compliance would help...but non-compliance does not equate to deadly force.

We can "what if" all day but none of it will fix the issues at hand.



I'm talking about the larger issue while using the specific incidents as examples. It's how you make people understand what you're talking about. It's basically "Instructing 101" but you wouldn't know anything about that cuz you haven't been properly trained on it.

We agree on this. It is a lose-lose for the officer. And I understand that the real time is very, very difficult. That does not immediately remove responsibility when the real time decision was wrong and it definitely doesn't mean that we have to always accept the real time decision as the right decision.

A police officer should be willing to lose there life before taking the life of another in an "unsure" situation. If they aren't willing to do so then they shouldn't be cops. As has been said, I'm not claiming it's an easy decision. I'm not claiming that cops can always get it right...but the fact that the cop is the professional means that there must be an absolute clear line (just as with prosecuting an individual in court) of no reasonable doubt.

no, an officer's job is not to sacrifice themselves in an unsure situtiation. That is an ignorant statement from someone who doesn't know what it means or takes to defend others with their own life.
When do you think is too late to call?

I was a certified trainer (USMC Training and Education Comman -- equivant of AETC) in infantry tactics, small unit tactics, MOUT -- military operation in urban terrain, reconnaissance and hand to hand fighting. We are both certified trainers, my training and certification dealt with shoot no shoot scenarios, did yours?

Either way, you win the internets ... You are too ignorant on the topic of armed engagement and shoot no shoot to have this discussion with.

360BHR
07-13-2016, 06:02 PM
Getting back to the Dallas issue. I just found out that the newest Miss Black Alabama (sorry but why have a separate ms black anything when there's plenty of blacks in ms America etc), is in the news for PRAISING the Dallas shooter, calling him a Martyr, and saying its hard to be sad about the lost cops (and civilians) lives.

And the sickest (IMO) part of it all is supposedly many commenters on her video are actually Congratulating her for saying this!??? What the heck over..

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/nation-now/2016/07/12/first-black-miss-alabama-calls-dallas-shooter-martyr-facbeook-live-post/86979620/

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/former-miss-alabama-calls-dallas-shooter-a-martyr-w212745

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/07/12/former-miss-alabama-calls-dallas-cop-shooter-martyr.html

You can bet, if a Ms white anything had said the same thing after Dillan Roof shot up that church in Charleston, there would have been hell to pay, and NO one would be complementing her video..



And linked, when the heck did a companies Employee, start becoming "Independent contractor"??

Just to clarify, she was not Miss Black Alabama, she was the first black Miss Alabama. However, I agree her martyr comments and those praising her were inappropriate.

sandsjames
07-13-2016, 06:29 PM
no, an officer's job is not to sacrifice themselves in an unsure situtiation. That is an ignorant statement from someone who doesn't know what it means or takes to defend others with their own life.
When do you think is too late to call?

I was a certified trainer (USMC Training and Education Comman -- equivant of AETC) in infantry tactics, small unit tactics, MOUT -- military operation in urban terrain, reconnaissance and hand to hand fighting. We are both certified trainers, my training and certification dealt with shoot no shoot scenarios, did yours?

Either way, you win the internets ... You are too ignorant on the topic of armed engagement and shoot no shoot to have this discussion with.And you are too ignorant on life skills to understand that sometimes the "right" thing is the wrong thing.

sparks82
07-13-2016, 06:52 PM
Getting back to the Dallas issue. I just found out that the newest Miss Black Alabama (sorry but why have a separate ms black anything when there's plenty of blacks in ms America etc), is in the news for PRAISING the Dallas shooter, calling him a Martyr, and saying its hard to be sad about the lost cops (and civilians) lives.

And the sickest (IMO) part of it all is supposedly many commenters on her video are actually Congratulating her for saying this!??? What the heck over..

http://www.usatoday.com/story/life/nation-now/2016/07/12/first-black-miss-alabama-calls-dallas-shooter-martyr-facbeook-live-post/86979620/

http://www.usmagazine.com/celebrity-news/news/former-miss-alabama-calls-dallas-shooter-a-martyr-w212745

http://www.foxnews.com/entertainment/2016/07/12/former-miss-alabama-calls-dallas-cop-shooter-martyr.html

You can bet, if a Ms white anything had said the same thing after Dillan Roof shot up that church in Charleston, there would have been hell to pay, and NO one would be complementing her video..



And linked, when the heck did a companies Employee, start becoming "Independent contractor"??

She was the first black Miss Alabama - in 1993 she was crowned. So not the newest crowned one.

Also what I read she did not praise him. She said that she feels conflicted about the shooter and the incident.

"Kalyn Chapman James, who was crowned Miss Alabama in 1993, said in a Facebook live video that she decided to speak out about her conflicted feelings towards the incident in Dallas after much prayer.
“I am dealing with a bit of guilt because I don’t feel sad for the officers that lost their lives and I know that’s not really my heart,” she said in the video.

James said while she values human life and knows the officers had families, she can’t help but sympathize with Johnson, the lone gunman who killed five police officers (http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2016/07/11/dallas-chief-13-officers-used-force-stop-rampage/86942116/)and wounded nine others Thursday in downtown Dallas

“I can’t help but feeling like the shooter was a martyr,” she said. “And I know it's not the right way to feel because nobody deserves to lose their lives, and I know those police officers had families."

She just said that she isn't surprised a black man shot and killed white cops after all these years and the last year. That's what I got out of it. I don't think she should have called him a martyr and it's very odd statement. But I didn't see anywhere she "praised" him. Some people agreed with her that they don't agree with him killing the cops but they aren't surprised that it happened.

In no way do I agree with her or condone him or her statements.

Here is an update: http://www.cnn.com/2016/07/13/us/kalyn-chapman-james-new-day-interview/index.html

She said she does not consider him a hero - but that a martyr dies for their beliefs. Technically he did die for his beliefs. She posted on Facebook something she should have likely just discussed with friends to figure out her feelings.

sparks82
07-13-2016, 06:53 PM
He was invited by the mayor. Not sure how many other funerals he has been invited to.

The first half of the speech was good. The second half was the political statement to the nation (obviously this was going to be a big event. Understanding that in politics you "never let a crisis go to waste" POTUS used the second half of the speech to bring up gun control, racism, abuses by police (without addressing the statistical relationship to those committing crimes in society), and criticize some of the BLM movement. IMO, the second half of the speech should have been anywhere other than the funeral but it needed to be given; probably including statements of fact and statistics over false allegorical comments "easier to get a gun than a book". POTUS can literally command every major network to televise a speech, the political speech could have been an hour later from Air Force one or last night from the Oval Office, separating the policy and political debate from a memorial service.

I don't have issue with POTUS meeting with BLM, but wish he would challenge them to address the issue in a more macro sense instead of just focusing on the (again, statistically small) incidents with police. Things he could address that are huge challenges to the black community:

-the fact that the leading cause of death for black males age 18-30 is violence by other black males.
-the fact that blacks are a statistical minority of populstion but commit a statistical majority of crime.
-the lack of minority representation in police departments.
-the fact that 3/4 of black children are born to a low income & single mother, initiating a low income employment and life cycle.
-the poor quality of urban / inner city education systems despite federally augmented funding that increases spending per student to a level on par with more successful (rural) school systems.
-the lack of desire for accountability for school boards, PTAs and local governments that have failed to sufficiently educate the majority of inner city children ... Perpetuating a cycle of low income employment.
-the lack of inner city support for school vouchers which could allow parents to pull children from poorly performing schools and place them in better performing (and safer) schools.
-the lack of inner city participation in federally funded college education programs (these programs are hardly used by those that most need them).

In looking at the stated goals of BLM, much of it is understandable and reasonable; what the organization fails to truly acknowledge, address or put effort into is that many issues that could improve the black community are not imposed on the back community but are WITHIN the black community .…. Specifically the urban / inner city black community.

POTUS has the largest platform in the world from which to address these issues, but instead is focusing on a micro issue because of the populist nature of it. Leadership isn't telling people what they want to hear, he should challenge them by telling them what they need to hear.

The Charleston shooting victims funerals or at least a memorial. I believe the one he sang at?

Mjölnir
07-13-2016, 07:00 PM
And you are too ignorant on life skills to understand that sometimes the "right" thing is the wrong thing.

My skills have kept me and my Marines and Sailors alive in numerous combat situations, protecting those too timid to do the job but eager to comment on how it should be done.

Mjölnir
07-13-2016, 07:03 PM
The Charleston shooting victims funerals or at least a memorial. I believe the one he sang at?

Did your comment get truncated? I don't understand.

garhkal
07-13-2016, 07:06 PM
-the lack of minority representation in police departments.

IMO that is for 3 main reasons.
A) Criminal records. Cause of the larger amount of crimes committed by blacks, that would mean more black candidates that might WISH to become cops are prohibited fro doing so, cause of their rap sheet.
B) Education. As you mentioned, even with the millions that has been thrown at inner city schools, graduation rates are still way lower than most other schools
C) Desire. I just don't see that many blacks wanting to work FOR the cops...


She was the first black Miss Alabama - in 1993 she was crowned. So not the newest crowned one.

I know, i corrected myself already.

sparks82
07-13-2016, 07:13 PM
Did your comment get truncated? I don't understand.

No that's another funeral or memorial the President has been invited to attend.

sandsjames
07-13-2016, 07:15 PM
My skills have kept me and my Marines and Sailors alive in numerous combat situations, protecting those too timid to do the job but eager to comment on how it should be done.

Did you feel you needed to say this because RM just posted the Jack Nicholson speech from "A Few Good Men"?

Just because I'm not a quarterback doesn't mean I can't tell when they make a good throw and when they make a poor one..

And I hate to point out the obvious incorrect statement to someone of your stature but it's not the job of those people to "stay alive". The job is to give ones life for the betterment of everyone else, if necessary.

Mjölnir
07-13-2016, 07:53 PM
Did you feel you needed to say this because RM just posted the Jack Nicholson speech from "A Few Good Men"?

Just because I'm not a quarterback doesn't mean I can't tell when they make a good throw and when they make a poor one..

And I hate to point out the obvious incorrect statement to someone of your stature but it's not the job of those people to "stay alive". The job is to give ones life for the betterment of everyone else, if necessary.

I missed the Jack Nicholson quote, not why I said it. I am on my phone while wife is driving from FL to MD and this keeps me from listening / paying attention to her playlist.

And you are right, you don't have to have been a quarterback to watch the game and give your opinion on a call, granted ... When talking to an armchair quarterback and a guy who actually played the position ... Who do you think is more knowledgable?

And your current statement on the job of police is much more correct than when you said their job is to sacrifice themselves in an unsure situation (with a non compliant subject). Personal sacrifice to give a suspect every opportunity to kill them is not their job. It may not need to result in death for the suspect but the legal (hate to throw out law in place of emotion) continuum of force allows the police to use deadly force in these situations. Barring criminal negligence by the police, the easiest way to not become a statistic is to comply with law enforcement.

sandsjames
07-13-2016, 08:19 PM
And you are right, you don't have to have been a quarterback to watch the game and give your opinion on a call, granted ... When talking to an armchair quarterback and a guy who actually played the position ... Who do you think is more knowledgable? Don't have to be an expert to recognize a poor throw.


And your current statement on the job of police is much more correct than when you said their job is to sacrifice themselves in an unsure situation (with a non compliant subject). Personal sacrifice to give a suspect every opportunity to kill them is not their job. It may not need to result in death for the suspect but the legal (hate to throw out law in place of emotion) continuum of force allows the police to use deadly force in these situations. Right...shoot first, ask questions later.


Barring criminal negligence by the police, the easiest way to not become a statistic is to comply with law enforcement.Agree 100%...and the easiest way for a woman not to get hit by her abusive husband is to do what she's told.

Here's a much better quote from "A Few Good Men" than the more popular Nicholson quote:


Downey: I don't understand... Colonel Jessup said he ordered the Code Red.
Galloway: I know but...
Downey: Colonel Jessup said he ordered the Code Red! What did we do wrong?
Galloway: It's not that simple...
Downey: What did we do wrong? We did nothing wrong!
Dawson: Yeah we did. We were supposed to fight for people who couldn't fight for themselves. We were supposed to fight for Willy.

They followed orders, they followed procedures, as they were trained to do...and that didn't mean that they did the right thing and they were held accountable.

Rainmaker
07-13-2016, 08:50 PM
.
Just because I'm not a quarterback doesn't mean I can't tell when they make a good throw and when they make a poor one..

This is a terrible analogy. Because, sometimes you can't tell.

A QB can do everything right.....Make the right read, go through the progression, make a good decision, a perfect throw and then some freak thing happens that's not his fault....... the ball gets tipped, receiver runs the wrong route, slips, etc. etc.... Now, all you see is the interception being run back for a pick 6. Your fat ass sits there in your Lazy boy, throwing the remote at the TV and screaming "where in the fuck is he throwing the ball??!!". See? Because, YOU DON'T HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION YET TO BE ABLE TO KNOW WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

Now using your logic...... We've got fucking Joe Montana on our team here (with a 95% completion rate) and you want to shit-can Bill Walsh.

Mjölnir
07-13-2016, 09:10 PM
Don't have to be an expert to recognize a poor throw.

No .. But to know when, how and to whom to throw the fastball vice the curve is probably better done by the pro then the guy who played tball.


...shoot first, ask questions later.

Not what I said. Does this:


Disclaimer: I support a person's "right" to protest peacefully, no matter what that protest is about. I also DO NOT support violent reactions to those protests. However, the organizer of the protest, by the mere fact that they organized/created the protest has put themselves in a potentially dangerous situation. Because they knowing put themselves in that situation, they share some of the responsibility for the outcome.

Only apply to those you agree with. Does a protestor or suspect who knowingly confronts or is no. compliant with police not bear some responsibility for the outcome? I will tell you from a legal perspective they bear the majority of the responsibility.



Agree 100%...and the easiest way for a woman not to get hit by her abusive husband is to do what she's told.

Different set of circumstances, nice try. A spouse does not have a legal nor civic responsibility to be compliant.


Here's a much better quote from "A Few Good Men" than the more popular Nicholson quote:



They followed orders, they followed procedures, as they were trained to do...and that didn't mean that they did the right thing and they were held accountable.

They did not follow a lawful order ... Again ... Nice try.

sandsjames
07-13-2016, 09:14 PM
This is a terrible analogy. Because, sometimes you can't tell.

A QB can do everything right.....Make the right read, go through the progression, make a good decision, a perfect throw and then some freak thing happens that's not his fault....... the ball gets tipped, receiver runs the wrong route, slips, etc. etc.... Now, all you see is the interception being run back for a pick 6. Your fat ass sits there in your Lazy boy, throwing the remote at the TV and screaming "where in the fuck is he throwing the ball??!!". See? Because, YOU DON'T HAVE ALL THE INFORMATION YET TO BE ABLE TO KNOW WHAT ACTUALLY HAPPENED.

Now using your logic...... We've got fucking Joe Montana on our team here (with a 95% completion rate) and you want to shit-can Bill Walsh.

What we have in these situations is not Joe Montana. It's Mark Sanchez, who sees the blitz coming and decides to throw the out pattern in order to avoid getting sacked, but he never looked to see if the CB jumped the route and now it's a pick 6. Instead of blaming the QB or the coach, people are blaming the Patriots, saying that they were spying on the Jets practice and that's what gave them the knowledge to jump the pattern in the first place.

These analogies are pretty fun.

sandsjames
07-13-2016, 09:26 PM
Not what I said. Does this:

Only apply to those you agree with. Does a protestor or suspect who knowingly confronts or is no. compliant with police not bear some responsibility for the outcome? I will tell you from a legal perspective they bear the majority of the responsibility. At no point have I said that the victims/suspects do not share in the blame. They absolutely do, and they play a huge part in their own deaths. However, it's up to the professionals to make the correct decision.





Different set of circumstances, nice try. A spouse does not have a legal nor civic responsibility to be compliant. You're not even close to the point on this one. The point is that a non-compliant suspect shouldn't immediately become ok to shoot just because the cops can use the "I felt threatened" excuse.



They did not follow a lawful order ... Again ... Nice try. Dear God...so obtuse.

Mjölnir
07-13-2016, 09:42 PM
You're not even close to the point on this one. The point is that a non-compliant suspect shouldn't immediately become ok to shoot just because the cops can use the "I felt threatened" excuse.

You are way off base on what "I felt threatened" translates to in ROS or the continuum of force. Not your fault, you aren't a professional in this area.

"I felt threatened" isn't a green light from zero to deadly force if you are not talking about the suspect is exercising or potentially e ER owing deadly force. This line is going to get us right back to you saying that (again & incorrectly) that the police are supposed to da rice themselves when unsure. I will again tell you that is not supported by law, procedure nor common sense.


Dear God...so obtuse.

I am not sure what is more obtuse of me, arguing about shoot-no shoot with someone whose tactical background is probably limited to Call of Duty or considering the need to explain a lawful order to someone who legally could have never given one.

sandsjames
07-13-2016, 09:53 PM
I am not sure what is more obtuse of me, arguing about shoot-no shoot with someone whose tactical background is probably limited to Call of Duty or considering the need to explain a lawful order to someone who legally could have never given one.Hah!!! Very nice...that's good stuff. I've never actually played Call of Duty...and nice comment about me being enlisted and you being better than me because of it...outstanding and not all that unexpected.

Here's what we've got on video. Two cops on a suspect. The suspect has no gun in his hands and both hands are visible. The cop thinks that the suspect is reaching for his gun, so he fires multiple times, killing the suspect.

So where was the threat to the officer? There would be threat IF the suspect reached his gun, though I'm sure 2 cops should have been able to restrain one guy face down. If not then they need to find a new job.

What happened is this. The cop got scared, understandably. Instead of trying to continue to restrain the suspect, he decided that he needed to fire his gun. If this cop isn't found liable, or someone in the chain found liable, then it just further justifies the complaints of the community.

Now, I don't think that these shootings are because the cops are racist. I don't buy that for a second. I think that there are several things that have already been mentioned that contribute to the shootings, that enflame the situation, etc. I simply think that the cop who shot (in Baton Rouge) made the wrong decision, based on the video that has been shown. I think anyone who isn't open to that possibility is ignorant to the fact that people make mistakes and there was possibly a mistake made in this situation. I don't believe the intent of the cops was to kill the suspect. I'm sure that's the last thing they wanted. However, that doesn't excuse the fact that this guy didn't have a gun in his hand.

Mjölnir
07-13-2016, 10:10 PM
Hah!!! Very nice...that's good stuff. I've never actually played Call of Duty...and nice comment about me being enlisted and you being better than me because of it...outstanding and not all that unexpected.

Here's what we've got on video. Two cops on a suspect. The suspect has no gun in his hands and both hands are visible. The cop thinks that the suspect is reaching for his gun, so he fires multiple times, killing the suspect.

So where was the threat to the officer? There would be threat IF the suspect reached his gun, though I'm sure 2 cops should have been able to restrain one guy face down. If not then they need to find a new job.

What happened is this. The cop got scared, understandably. Instead of trying to continue to restrain the suspect, he decided that he needed to fire his gun. If this cop isn't found liable, or someone in the chain found liable, then it just further justifies the complaints of the community.

Now, I don't think that these shootings are because the cops are racist. I don't buy that for a second. I think that there are several things that have already been mentioned that contribute to the shootings, that enflame the situation, etc. I simply think that the cop who shot (in Baton Rouge) made the wrong decision, based on the video that has been shown. I think anyone who isn't open to that possibility is ignorant to the fact that people make mistakes and there was possibly a mistake made in this situation. I don't believe the intent of the cops was to kill the suspect. I'm sure that's the last thing they wanted. However, that doesn't excuse the fact that this guy didn't have a gun in his hand.

So less experience than Call of Duty, check.

For the other, you gave an example that could not be a lawful order ... I point that out which makes me obtuse. I suspect this is because you possibly don't understand the legal differences and authorities. Yes, I am an officer you were not. This does not make me better. In fact I am pretty sure I have never said that ever, you say that a lot. Maybe the issue isn't me or my opinion but that you feel a need to argue with anyone who is/was zenior because of what I have gathered over a long time is a large chip on your shoulder / something to prove.

We won't convince each other to change our minds, you have called me obtuse and utterly changed my opinion of you. You win.

sandsjames
07-13-2016, 10:23 PM
So less experience than Call of Duty, check. Absolutely, and I'm pretty sure I've never claimed otherwise. Of course someone who hasn't been in charge of a combat brigade can't have an opinion or, if they do, the opinion is useless.


For the other, you gave an example that could not be a lawful order ... I point that out which makes me obtuse. I suspect this is because you possibly don't understand the legal differences and authorities. I understand the legal differences just fine. I just think that sometimes moral decisions should come before legal decisions.


Yes, I am an officer you were not. This does not make me better. On this we agree.


In fact I am pretty sure I have never said that ever, you say that a lot. You don't have to say it...it's inferred.


Maybe the issue isn't me or my opinion but that you feel a need to argue with anyone who is/was zenior because of what I have gathered over a long time is a large chip on your shoulder / something to prove. No chip at all. I disagree with Garkhal just as often as I disagree with you. Pointing out rank/position falls on you as you are the one who always makes the point about who, and how many, you are in charge of.


We won't convince each other to change our minds, Honestly, I don't think either of us should change our minds. I'm pretty sure we agree on most of this stuff...you are just to stubborn to admit it. For some reason the simple mention of support for the victims/suspects seems to set off a particular crown and that's what happened here.


you have called me obtuse and utterly changed my opinion of you. I'm sorry. Did I force you to look up the definition? You are continually unable or unwilling to see a simple point...I've said that several times...not sure why using a single word instead of the entire phrase would change an opinion.


You win.I usually do.

Have you, at any point in your life, been a police officer OR a black man being arrested? Cuz I don't think your opinion is valid unless you've done both of those things.

Mjölnir
07-13-2016, 11:17 PM
Absolutely, and I'm pretty sure I've never claimed otherwise. Of course someone who hasn't been in charge of a combat brigade can't have an opinion or, if they do, the opinion is useless.

I understand the legal differences just fine. I just think that sometimes moral decisions should come before legal decisions.

On this we agree.

You don't have to say it...it's inferred.

No chip at all. I disagree with Garkhal just as often as I disagree with you. Pointing out rank/position falls on you as you are the one who always makes the point about who, and how many, you are in charge of.

Honestly, I don't think either of us should change our minds. I'm pretty sure we agree on most of this stuff...you are just to stubborn to admit it. For some reason the simple mention of support for the victims/suspects seems to set off a particular crown and that's what happened here.

I'm sorry. Did I force you to look up the definition? You are continually unable or unwilling to see a simple point...I've said that several times...not sure why using a single word instead of the entire phrase would change an opinion.

I usually do.

Have you, at any point in your life, been a police officer OR a black man being arrested? Cuz I don't think your opinion is valid unless you've done both of those things.

We don't have Moral Enforcement Officers ... We have Law Enforcement Officers.

And the large part of why we often disagree is arguing how it should be vs how it is. If you want to keep the conversation in one lane it is easier to discuss, but we never do.

I don't disagree that moral decisions are important, problem is whose morals do you use as the baseline? Morality is subjective at best, influenced by demographic, religion, age etc. We strive for the law to be objective, blind to the things that complicate God morality or mine. We are a nation of laws specifically to avoid that (read some Thomas Paine and Thomas Jefferson on it, it is really interesting stuff).

Rusty Jones
07-14-2016, 02:38 AM
Exactly...it's the same reason we don't hear about white people being shot by cops. It doesn't create any unrest.

The sad part about this is that it SHOULD. In my estimation, the white middle and upper classes don't give two shits about their own poor. They'll defend the "system" at the expense of poor whites.

They only time they give two shits about poor whites, is when they need to be brought up in arguments with black people. Is "All Live Matter" out there marching and protesting for their fellow whites who've been killed by police, while unarmed?

What's even more sad is that many - if not most - of the poor whites getting killed by these cops aren't fully aware of this themselves... that middle and upper class whites don't give two fucks about them.

If these poor whites stood with minorities, instead of sucking up to people that don't give two shits about them... imagine the progress that could be made.

Mjölnir
07-14-2016, 03:33 AM
The sad part about this is that it SHOULD. In my estimation, the white middle and upper classes don't give two shits about their own poor. They'll defend the "system" at the expense of poor whites.

They only time they give two shits about poor whites, is when they need to be brought up in arguments with black people. Is "All Live Matter" out there marching and protesting for their fellow whites who've been killed by police, while unarmed?

What's even more sad is that many - if not most - of the poor whites getting killed by these cops aren't fully aware of this themselves... that middle and upper class whites don't give two fucks about them.

If these poor whites stood with minorities, instead of sucking up to people that don't give two shits about them... imagine the progress that could be made.

I don't know if it is that middle and upper class whites don't care or if the issue is less sensitive in the white community than in the black community.

Of course all lives matter, but what I think "All Lives Matter" and "Blue Lives Matter" does is detract from a legitimate issue that black males are disproportionately involved in crime and violent incidents with police, blacks are about 13% of the U.S. population but about 40% of the prison population. I am starting to wonder if this is the disease or a symptom. As I said earlier, I think there are many issues that BLM could focus energy and effort on that could also be addressed:

-the fact that blacks are a statistical minority of populstion but commit a statistical majority of crime.
-the lack of minority representation in police departments.
-the fact that 3/4 of black children are born to a low income & single mother, initiating a low income employment and life cycle.
-the poor quality of urban / inner city education systems despite federally augmented funding that increases spending per student to a level on par with more successful (rural) school systems.
-the lack of desire for accountability for school boards, PTAs and local governments that have failed to sufficiently educate the majority of inner city children ... Perpetuating a cycle of low income employment.
-the lack of inner city support for school vouchers which could allow parents to pull children from poorly performing schools and place them in better performing (and safer) schools.
-the lack of inner city participation in federally funded college education programs (these programs are hardly used by those that most need them).

I don't point this out to say that the black community should "get its own house in order" before addressing the issues with law enforcement, but the two can, could, should be addressed simultaneously, specifically the poor quality of education in urban areas which perpetuates a cycle of low income and impoverishment in minorities in urban areas. It is easy to say if the parents gave a shit about their kids they would move to a nicer area, in many cases that much harder than it appears bordering on impossible. Many say people shouldn't have kids if they are in that situation, that may be true but the fact is that saying that is ignoring the issue isn't teaching the parents a lesson ... It is screwing over the kids and perpetuation a bad cycle even farther.

Rainmaker
07-14-2016, 03:35 AM
Maybe... just maybe... cops getting picked off will force police departments and state and local governments to start holding their police officers accountable.




What's even more sad is that many - if not most - of the poor whites getting killed by these cops aren't fully aware of this themselves... that middle and upper class whites don't give two fucks about them.

If these poor whites stood with minorities, instead of sucking up to people that don't give two shits about them... imagine the progress that could be made.

Jesus - where to even begin....

garhkal
07-14-2016, 05:33 AM
I don't know if it is that middle and upper class whites don't care or if the issue is less sensitive in the white community than in the black community.


Could be. Or maybe, we seem to care more about people who actually do the right thing and follow the law, rather than criminals..?

sandsjames
07-14-2016, 11:41 AM
The sad part about this is that it SHOULD. In my estimation, the white middle and upper classes don't give two shits about their own poor. They'll defend the "system" at the expense of poor whites. There was a shooting 2 nights ago in Oklahoma of a white driver. The only reason I heard anything about it is because I live in North Texas, so it was on the local news. I tried to find a story online about it and there was nothing. It's the burying of stories like this that make it seem like it only happens to blacks. It's ridiculous that the media is allowed to drive the national narrative.


They only time they give two shits about poor whites, is when they need to be brought up in arguments with black people. Is "All Live Matter" out there marching and protesting for their fellow whites who've been killed by police, while unarmed? I'm tired of it. The "All live matter" crap is like a bunch of arguments on here where people understand the point you're trying to make but feel the need to disagree just to do so. It's very clear what the "Black Lives Matter" movement is about...it's clear to anyone who opens their eyes for one second, and it's definitely NOT about discounting other races...everyone knows this...but it doesn't help their politics.


What's even more sad is that many - if not most - of the poor whites getting killed by these cops aren't fully aware of this themselves... that middle and upper class whites don't give two fucks about them. This is why I think a lot of the things that get discussed as being "racist" aren't really about race but are more about class...it's a disregard for poverty...it just so happens that the more concentrated areas of poverty are black communities. White southern poverty is generally pretty spread out (other than pretty low population trailer parks).


If these poor whites stood with minorities, instead of sucking up to people that don't give two shits about them... imagine the progress that could be made.I just wish that people would be willing to, even if just a little bit, agree that it's a little bit possible that maybe the cops were in the wrong, but they won't even concede that.

Mjölnir
07-14-2016, 01:42 PM
There was a shooting 2 nights ago in Oklahoma of a white driver. The only reason I heard anything about it is because I live in North Texas, so it was on the local news. I tried to find a story online about it and there was nothing. It's the burying of stories like this that make it seem like it only happens to blacks. It's ridiculous that the media is allowed to drive the national narrative.

It is ridiculous. A couple months ago when it was reported that Facebook (or at least some of the content managers) were manipulating what stories were 'trending' to favor stories the favorably represented liberal media and unfavorably represented conservative media, the issue hardly was reported. There is also statistics that show Google did the same thing with its auto complete feature to deemphasize stories & articles unfavorable to Hillary Clinton and emphasize stories that unfavorable stories & articles on Donald Trump. Step back from that and consider how many people today use social media as thier 'news' source. What if Facebook and/or Google did this on a large scale or purposefully drive a narrative ... How many people would have no idea? Be careful of your sample size.

[QUOTE=sandsjames;366186]I'm tired of it. The "All live matter" crap is like a bunch of arguments on here where people understand the point you're trying to make but feel the need to disagree just to do so. It's very clear what the "Black Lives Matter" movement is about...it's clear to anyone who opens their eyes for one second, and it's definitely NOT about discounting other races...everyone knows this...but it doesn't help their politics.

Good point on BLM. I do think that BLM on its own isn't bad, there is a lot of cross pollination to very racist / anti white groups same as with racist / anti black groups. I spent my high school years in Louisiana, where there were some extreme racist views. Many people don't know there was an NAAWP ... I don't think it exists in a national form any longer. On its surface it sounded very reasonable "equal rights for all, special treatment for none". It was a soft recruiting pool for far more extreme organizations -- KKK, Aryan Nation etc. I think the association of some extreme anti white people with BLM skews some people to think that BLM is the same thing.


This is why I think a lot of the things that get discussed as being "racist" aren't really about race but are more about class...it's a disregard for poverty...it just so happens that the more concentrated areas of poverty are black communities. White southern poverty is generally pretty spread out (other than pretty low population trailer parks).

Probably. Where I live in MD, there are a couple of very affluent black communities, I have a couple of friends who live there and one who we have dinner with occasionally. When the Baltimore riots took place last year, the one I am closest to told me she had no idea why the rioters in Baltimore would be destroying their own neighborhood. The neighborhood I lived in in Louisiana was very poor and about 50/50 black & white ... Not grouped by race but econimics.


I just wish that people would be willing to, even if just a little bit, agree that it's a little bit possible that maybe the cops were in the wrong, but they won't even concede that.

Some people won't ever admit police err. My brother is a police officer, his wife is one of these people, probably skewed by the fact that in the last 3 years he has been shot at about half a dozen times, stabbed twice and had at least one black eye. Police departments are getting better about addressing w hen police are wrong. The issue really gets complicated when being wrong is not judged to be criminally negligent, even in the case of violent action / use of deadly force.

Mjölnir
07-14-2016, 01:42 PM
There was a shooting 2 nights ago in Oklahoma of a white driver. The only reason I heard anything about it is because I live in North Texas, so it was on the local news. I tried to find a story online about it and there was nothing. It's the burying of stories like this that make it seem like it only happens to blacks. It's ridiculous that the media is allowed to drive the national narrative.

It is ridiculous. A couple months ago when it was reported that Facebook (or at least some of the content managers) were manipulating what stories were 'trending' to favor stories the favorably represented liberal media and unfavorably represented conservative media, the issue hardly was reported. There is also statistics that show Google did the same thing with its auto complete feature to deemphasize stories & articles unfavorable to Hillary Clinton and emphasize stories that unfavorable stories & articles on Donald Trump. Step back from that and consider how many people today use social media as thier 'news' source. What if Facebook and/or Google did this on a large scale or purposefully drive a narrative ... How many people would have no idea? Be careful of your sample size.


I'm tired of it. The "All live matter" crap is like a bunch of arguments on here where people understand the point you're trying to make but feel the need to disagree just to do so. It's very clear what the "Black Lives Matter" movement is about...it's clear to anyone who opens their eyes for one second, and it's definitely NOT about discounting other races...everyone knows this...but it doesn't help their politics.

Good point on BLM. I do think that BLM on its own isn't bad, there is a lot of cross pollination to very racist / anti white groups same as with racist / anti black groups. I spent my high school years in Louisiana, where there were some extreme racist views. Many people don't know there was an NAAWP ... I don't think it exists in a national form any longer. On its surface it sounded very reasonable "equal rights for all, special treatment for none". It was a soft recruiting pool for far more extreme organizations -- KKK, Aryan Nation etc. I think the association of some extreme anti white people with BLM skews some people to think that BLM is the same thing.


This is why I think a lot of the things that get discussed as being "racist" aren't really about race but are more about class...it's a disregard for poverty...it just so happens that the more concentrated areas of poverty are black communities. White southern poverty is generally pretty spread out (other than pretty low population trailer parks).

Probably. Where I live in MD, there are a couple of very affluent black communities, I have a couple of friends who live there and one who we have dinner with occasionally. When the Baltimore riots took place last year, the one I am closest to told me she had no idea why the rioters in Baltimore would be destroying their own neighborhood. The neighborhood I lived in in Louisiana was very poor and about 50/50 black & white ... Not grouped by race but econimics.


I just wish that people would be willing to, even if just a little bit, agree that it's a little bit possible that maybe the cops were in the wrong, but they won't even concede that.

Some people won't ever admit police err. My brother is a police officer, his wife is one of these people, probably skewed by the fact that in the last 3 years he has been shot at about half a dozen times, stabbed twice and had at least one black eye. Police departments are getting better about addressing w hen police are wrong. The issue really gets complicated when being wrong is not judged to be criminally negligent, even in the case of violent action / use of deadly force.

Rainmaker
07-14-2016, 02:30 PM
It's very clear what the "Black Lives Matter" movement is about...it's clear to anyone who opens their eyes for one second, and it's definitely NOT about discounting other races...everyone knows this...but it doesn't help their politics.



'Black Lives Matter' is a sub set of the "charities" funded by Liberal marxist billionaires like Soros (among others) for the specific purpose of sowing hate and discontent among Americans and then profiting from investments in companies that are pre-positioned to take advantage of the chaos they're creating.

If we had an actual independent media in this country (instead of just a bunch of stooges) they'd be investigating the links between who's paying people to "protest" on the streets and the organized "hate crimes" being committed against the white race.

garhkal
07-14-2016, 03:34 PM
There was a shooting 2 nights ago in Oklahoma of a white driver. The only reason I heard anything about it is because I live in North Texas, so it was on the local news. I tried to find a story online about it and there was nothing. It's the burying of stories like this that make it seem like it only happens to blacks. It's ridiculous that the media is allowed to drive the national narrative.

That it is.. And that is why so many people keep discounting what BLM keeps trying to push..



It is ridiculous. A couple months ago when it was reported that Facebook (or at least some of the content managers) were manipulating what stories were 'trending' to favor stories the favorably represented liberal media and unfavorably represented conservative media, the issue hardly was reported. There is also statistics that show Google did the same thing with its auto complete feature to deemphasize stories & articles unfavorable to Hillary Clinton and emphasize stories that unfavorable stories & articles on Donald Trump. Step back from that and consider how many people today use social media as thier 'news' source. What if Facebook and/or Google did this on a large scale or purposefully drive a narrative ... How many people would have no idea? Be careful of your sample size.

I don't remember seeing/hearing CNN, HLN or MSNBC have it, but Fox did, though only for 3-4 minutes.... And that was on only one show (outnumbered)..

sparks82
07-14-2016, 04:38 PM
http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/07/12/chicago-blm-activist-we-need-abolish-police

Here's the problem with Black Lives Matter as an organization - they are unorganized. Who is this woman? Is she just someone who supports the movement or does she actually represent BLM in a Chicago chapter or what? I have gone to their website and glanced through it and it looks like a fifth grader made it or something.

If BLM wants to be an organization like the NAACP or ACLU or something like that then they need to get it together and actually organize. Establish chapters in cities if they haven't. Have official spokespeople. State whether someone is speaking for the group or not.

It's the thought that the police are the sole problem that is causing so much friction. They aren't the sole problem.

Rainmaker
07-14-2016, 06:09 PM
The concept of "White Privilege" was originally created by a Lesbian Feminist (Peggy McIntosh) and adopted by Cultural Marxists in Academia to explain why Black students were unable to keep up with White students on the SAT tests.

Her book "White Privilege: Unpacking the Invisible Knapsack" was on the ADL's recommended reading list for public "educators" for years.

This idea was quickly embraced by Left-Wing Radicals, who financed & promoted it throughout the Government, Academia, Media, Industry and the Military as part of the larger "social justice" campaign, aimed at altering the ethnic, racial and religious makeup of the U.S. (to make it less white).

Driven by blacks but, financed by some of the wealthiest entities in the world, This "movement" has turned into 'Black Lives Matter' while, "White Privilege" has crossed the rubicon and morphed from a silly racist concept, into organized hate crimes being carried out against the white race.

It's time to SHUT IT THE FUCK DOWN.

Lets see what oblamo has to say.

https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/petition/formally-recognize-black-lives-matter-terrorist-organization

garhkal
07-14-2016, 09:52 PM
http://insider.foxnews.com/2016/07/12/chicago-blm-activist-we-need-abolish-police

Here's the problem with Black Lives Matter as an organization - they are unorganized. Who is this woman? Is she just someone who supports the movement or does she actually represent BLM in a Chicago chapter or what? I have gone to their website and glanced through it and it looks like a fifth grader made it or something.

If BLM wants to be an organization like the NAACP or ACLU or something like that then they need to get it together and actually organize. Establish chapters in cities if they haven't. Have official spokespeople. State whether someone is speaking for the group or not.

It's the thought that the police are the sole problem that is causing so much friction. They aren't the sole problem.

And if she really wants to abolish all cop departments, and go to 'community policing', who the heck does she see as stepping up TO police black communities???


Rainmaker

The concept of "White Privilege" was originally created by a Lesbian Feminist (Peggy McIntosh) and adopted by Cultural Marxists in Academia to explain why Black students were unable to keep up with White students on the SAT tests.

Heck, did you see many news channels yesterday 'being prideful' over that kid's rather vulgar (at times) supposed white privilege poem (more like a rant)?

Rusty Jones
07-15-2016, 03:39 AM
Community policing? I believe that police forces should consist of conscripted patrolmen. Since the job of being a patrolman requires apprehending suspects who may resist arrest in ways that may require response with deadly force, the only people applying for the job are people who WANT do that stuff.

I think that a police force might be better off filled with people who DON'T want to do the job.

Mjölnir
07-15-2016, 12:20 PM
Community policing? I believe that police forces should consist of conscripted patrolmen. Since the job of being a patrolman requires apprehending suspects who may resist arrest in ways that may require response with deadly force, the only people applying for the job are people who WANT do that stuff.

I think that a police force might be better off filled with people who DON'T want to do the job.

That would be like saying everyone who enlists really wants to be a janitor. Yes, taking out trash or cleaning is a small part of what is done, but far from the goal.

I am sure there is a really small percentage of police who have the mentality you describe, but I think the vast majority do it out of a sense of duty and service. If it was a matter of wanting to hurt people, then they would picking a terrible profession since in the majority every violent interaction is reviewed (yes, even things like compliance holds-- arm bars etc.); unholstering a weapon is actually recorded and tracked per federal guidelines. Long gone are the days of a cop being able to be a bully or a thug with a badge without repercussion -- am sure there are those still there but cell phone and body cameras are quickly identifying those people.

sandsjames
07-15-2016, 01:20 PM
Long gone are the days of a cop being able to be a bully or a thug with a badge without repercussion --Well, I think this is pretty much up for debate.

Mjölnir
07-15-2016, 02:07 PM
Well, I think this is pretty much up for debate.

It is not 100% for sure, but if you look at many of the incidences of shootings or police excess, the proof is in the video. The SC last year when a patrolman shot an unarmed man who was running away was caught on a bystander's cell phone.

This can also protect police, as tragic as the Tamir Rice shooting (12 year old Cleveland boy) is, a major factor was the video. Yes, the police shot within 2 seconds ... The security video from across the street showed Rice turn toward and walk toward police with a gun (the gun was a realistic looking toy). Absent the video, the officers would likely have been prosecuted.

One of the better concerns BLM has raised is requiring law enforcement to wear body cameras. This protects both the public and the officer. There are issues with the cameras, recently it turns out there a department whose cameras never turned off ... Recording officers as they ate, used the bathroom or were at home.

Mjölnir
07-15-2016, 02:08 PM
Well, I think this is pretty much up for debate.

It is not 100% for sure, but if you look at many of the incidences of shootings or police excess, the proof is in the video. The SC last year when a patrolman shot an unarmed man who was running away was caught on a bystander's cell phone.

This can also protect police, as tragic as the Tamir Rice shooting (12 year old Cleveland boy) is, a major factor was the video. Yes, the police shot within 2 seconds ... The security video from across the street showed Rice turn toward and walk toward police with a gun (the gun was a realistic looking toy). Absent the video, the officers would likely have been prosecuted.

One of the better concerns BLM has raised is requiring law enforcement to wear body cameras. This protects both the public and the officer. There are issues with the cameras, recently it turns out there a department whose cameras never turned off ... Recording officers as they ate, used the bathroom or were at home.

sparks82
07-15-2016, 04:26 PM
Body cams can help but I did watch this awhile ago (although I saw the entire report somewhere else that isn't in this article).

http://www.today.com/money/police-body-cameras-can-you-always-believe-what-they-show-t92581

Body cam doesn't show everything that's going on in the area or the situation. As shown, they can be deceiving without context.

Mjölnir
07-15-2016, 04:46 PM
Body cams can help but I did watch this awhile ago (although I saw the entire report somewhere else that isn't in this article).

http://www.today.com/money/police-body-cameras-can-you-always-believe-what-they-show-t92581

Body cam doesn't show everything that's going on in the area or the situation. As shown, they can be deceiving without context.

Again, not a 100% solution, but can eliminate much of the he said - he said.

And yes, any bit of data without context can be deceiving. In the case of the MN shooting, watching a man bleed out in a car next to his girlfriend and in front of a child is horrible. That data is useless in determining fault absent of what happened prior to the shooting (some of which was captured on radio recordings and is pretty bad for the officer's case).

Rainmaker
07-18-2016, 04:03 AM
And if she really wants to abolish all cop departments, and go to 'community policing', who the heck does she see as stepping up TO police black communities???

Well, since Obama wants to Federalize the local PD's, I say go for it. He can deputize these hood-rats and they can get busy poe-leasing themselves! Only one condition. They'll pay for it using their own tax base, taken from their own "community" for a change.

The rest of us shouldn't be forced to continue subsidizing the existence of these fuck-tards.

Rainmaker
07-18-2016, 02:48 PM
If these poor whites stood with minorities, instead of sucking up to people that don't give two shits about them... imagine the progress that could be made.



FYI, The reason poor whites won't "stand with blacks" is because they can't fucking stand being around them. Any White person who's ever had the pleasure to live in an Inner city dependency zone will (privately) tell you the same thing. It's a bi-product of their having been subjected to black racism and hatred & having had acts of violence perpetuated against them by blacks, who have been taught since Kindergarten that it's all whitey's fault for all their problems. The first thing poor whites want to do as soon as they get 1/2 the chance is MOVE THE HELL AWAY FROM BLACKS.

Blacks need to be careful with this stupid shit because they're beginning to alienate the only people in this country, who'll even think about defending/supporting them. Rich Liberal Whites (with almost zero real world exposure to black culture).

Rusty Jones
07-18-2016, 03:10 PM
Rainmaker;366244]FYI, The reason poor whites won't "stand with blacks" is because they can't fucking stand being around them. Any White person who's ever had the pleasure to live in an Inner city dependency zone will (privately) tell you the same thing. It's a bi-product of their having been subjected to black racism and hatred & having had acts of violence perpetuated against them by blacks, who have been taught since Kindergarten that it's all whitey's fault for all their problems. The first thing poor whites want to do as soon as they get 1/2 the chance is MOVE THE HELL AWAY FROM BLACKS.

LOL, I take it that you don't know many whites who grew up in black neighborhoods. I can tell you from experience that for every black person who wants to harm a white person in a black neighborhood, there are three black people looking out for that white person.

But I'll grant you that, in general, you're probably right about the general attitude of poor whites toward blacks; what we do disagree on, however, is the motive behind those attitudes. But that's not what I'm going to get into.

What I'm going to get into is this: middle class whites "can't fucking stand" to be around poor whites, either. Middle class whites are quick to write poor whites off as "white trash" or "trailer park trash," or whatever. Or, when that poor white person is out of place among his or her well-off counterparts, they have no problem going out of their way to try to humiliate that person (for example, how "Shooter" McGavin treated Happy Gilmore at the country clubs).

The issue with poor whites is that they're being shit on by middle class whites, and they don't even know it. They're too blind to see it.

All it's going to take is for poor whites to wake the fuck up, and whites in general are going to have a new problem on their hands.

sandsjames
07-18-2016, 03:52 PM
All it's going to take is for poor whites to wake the fuck up, and whites in general are going to have a new problem on their hands.The main difference is that there is a "black community" but there is no "white community". Maybe if middle class and upper class blacks were a little harder on poor blacks then a better environment would be created. Feeling the need to protect the lower class hasn't done anything to improve the culture. The ability of the middle class white to separate from the poor white makes it much easier for me to not feel guilty. You'd know better than me, but from a white perspective there is very much a stigma created by poor black of those in the community who become successful. Whether true on a large scale or not, I don't know, but that's my perception.

Rainmaker
07-18-2016, 04:00 PM
LOL, I take it that you don't know many whites who grew up in black neighborhoods. I can tell you from experience that for every black person who wants to harm a white person in a black neighborhood, there are three black people looking out for that white person.

But I'll grant you that, in general, you're probably right about the general attitude of poor whites toward blacks; what we do disagree on, however, is the motive behind those attitudes. But that's not what I'm going to get into.

What I'm going to get into is this: middle class whites "can't fucking stand" to be around poor whites, either. Middle class whites are quick to write poor whites off as "white trash" or "trailer park trash," or whatever. Or, when that poor white person is out of place among his or her well-off counterparts, they have no problem going out of their way to try to humiliate that person (for example, how "Shooter" McGavin treated Happy Gilmore at the country clubs).

The issue with poor whites is that they're being shit on by middle class whites, and they don't even know it. They're too blind to see it.

All it's going to take is for poor whites to wake the fuck up, and whites in general are going to have a new problem on their hands.

I'm beginning to think you never actually lived in the hood & have just watched too many Spike Lee movies.

Now, Rainmaker's mother's family was from Baltimore (Grandmother lived near Pimlico). The majority of my relatives worked in the steel and ship yards and many of them were (and still are) Baltimore City cops. After my Father got out of the Army We lived there with her (81-82) & he worked as a cop. We'd been around black kids in the army so it didn't seem like a big deal. But, it was the 1st time that my 2 Brothers and I attended a Majority Black school. 1st day in class Rainmaker had to read aloud from a history text book that had the word 'Negro' in it. After class got jumped for the crime of having spoken the word 'Negro' aloud.


We fought like hell with them every single day ,for basically no reason (other than being white) and gave as good as we got. It wasn't until we resorted to the tactic of isolating and ganging up on people and fucking them up & my Father and the cops pulled the school bus over and dragged some mother fuckers off and shook em down, that they (mostly) left us alone.

This country is full of racists and racial violence and most of it is in the schools and directed at Whites. It goes virtually unreported in the jewish run media.

In 83 we moved back to my Father's hometown in Cumberland, MD. It was 98% white and the 2nd poorest MSA in the US at the time. Crime was virtually non-existent. Baltimore (like every other Majority black city) is a shithole because of the demographics and the inferior "culture". It has nothing to do with income inequality.

Rusty Jones
07-18-2016, 04:37 PM
I'm beginning to think you never actually lived in the hood & have just watched too many Spike Lee movies.

The scenario I gave you has never been depicted in any Spike Lee movie. I imagine that it could've been in 8 Mile, but I freely admit to having never seen the movie before.

I'd love to say that maybe things are different in Baltimore, as I've never lived there before, but... my LPO when I was on the USS Stout (DDG 55) - who is now a Command Senior Chief - is actually from Baltimore, and was actually one of those white kids that had groups of black kids looking out for him.


Now, Rainmaker's mother's family was from Baltimore (Grandmother lived near Pimlico). The majority of my relatives worked in the steel and ship yards and many of them were (and still are) Baltimore City cops. After my Father got out of the Army We lived there with her (81-82) & he worked as a cop. We'd been around black kids in the army so it didn't seem like a big deal. But, it was the 1st time that my 2 Brothers and I attended a Majority Black school. 1st day in class Rainmaker had to read aloud from a history text book that had the word 'Negro' in it. After class got jumped for the crime of having spoken the word 'Negro' aloud.

We fought like hell with them every single day ,for basically no reason (other than being white) and gave as good as we got. It wasn't until we resorted to the tactic of isolating and ganging up on people and fucking them up & my Father and the cops pulled the school bus over and dragged some mother fuckers off and shook em down, that they (mostly) left us alone.

Good for you for doing what you had to do.


This country is full of racists and racial violence and most of it is in the schools and directed at Whites. It goes virtually unreported in the jewish run media.

In 83 we moved back to my Father's hometown in Cumberland, MD. It was 98% white and the 2nd poorest MSA in the US at the time. Crime was virtually non-existent. Baltimore (like every other Majority black city) is a shithole because of the demographics and the inferior "culture". It has nothing to do with income inequality.

LOL, but there's a huge difference between being "urban poor" and "rural poor." You know that.

sparks82
07-18-2016, 04:51 PM
The main difference is that there is a "black community" but there is no "white community". Maybe if middle class and upper class blacks were a little harder on poor blacks then a better environment would be created. Feeling the need to protect the lower class hasn't done anything to improve the culture. The ability of the middle class white to separate from the poor white makes it much easier for me to not feel guilty. You'd know better than me, but from a white perspective there is very much a stigma created by poor black of those in the community who become successful. Whether true on a large scale or not, I don't know, but that's my perception.

Even among the "black community" you have upper class blacks who don't truly give a shit about poor blacks. Look at OJ Simpson. If you watch the documentary about his case - he couldn't stand other black people. All his friends and acquaintances for the most part were white. When he got arrested at his house after the slow speed chase he asked "What are all these n* doing here?" His legal team went in his house and replaced all the pictures on his wall with any they could find of him with black people because they were going to take the jury through his house or something.

Overall the black community rallies because in that case a lot of black people rallied for him solely because of his skin color. They didn't care he beat the crap out of his wife. They didn't care he had nothing in common with them. But if you look at most of the upper class black people in this country they provide a lot of lip service. They get on social media and cry out about "injustice" but once it fades away you don't hear from them again as they live in their mansions and out on their yachts.

Rusty Jones
07-18-2016, 05:08 PM
Even among the "black community" you have upper class blacks who don't truly give a shit about poor blacks. Look at OJ Simpson. If you watch the documentary about his case - he couldn't stand other black people. All his friends and acquaintances for the most part were white. When he got arrested at his house after the slow speed chase he asked "What are all these n* doing here?" His legal team went in his house and replaced all the pictures on his wall with any they could find of him with black people because they were going to take the jury through his house or something.

Overall the black community rallies because in that case a lot of black people rallied for him solely because of his skin color. They didn't care he beat the crap out of his wife. They didn't care he had nothing in common with them. But if you look at most of the upper class black people in this country they provide a lot of lip service. They get on social media and cry out about "injustice" but once it fades away you don't hear from them again as they live in their mansions and out on their yachts.

OJ Simpson also happened before the age of social media, so most people were completely unaware of what he has said that whole time. For what it's worth, I was NOT "Team OJ" (I was a sophomore in high school when he was acquitted).

One thing I'll grant SJ is that there is indeed a such thing as a healthy amount of classism. However, neither blacks nor whites have it. Not enough of it among blacks, but too much of it among whites.

And while there are cases of middle and upper class blacks who look down on lower class blacks, those middle and upper class blacks generally don't make their feelings known outside of a small circle. Classism isn't tolerated in the black community, and engaging in it is an easy way to get shunned.

One thing that's always going to keep classism below that healthy level is the fact that these cops don't know who's who when they apprehend a black person. These cops don't know if a particular black person was born in wedlock, has a police record, a college degree, a steady job, or any of that - all these cops see is a black person. Hell, Obama has a JD in Constitutional Law from Harvard and is President of the United States - but that hasn't stopped racist from comparing him to monkeys, making watermelon jokes, and all that other shit. Hell, even MTF member "20+ Years" called Obama "thug" before the mass exodus that took place when mods were established in the aftermath of the Rep Wars.

Me - being only a GS-11 with a master's a degree and an E6 in the Air Force Reserve - can't escaped being looked upon as just another Pookie or Ray Ray if Obama can't.

With that being said, blacks generally identifying with the poor among them... really isn't a choice. It's the hand that we were dealt, and it's the hand we have to play.

WILDJOKER5
07-18-2016, 05:19 PM
This is a good video in it entirety, but I am going to start it here for the purpose of this thread.

https://youtu.be/Hos7HouJ4DQ?t=5m46s

Rainmaker
07-18-2016, 05:36 PM
One thing I'll grant SJ is that there is indeed a such thing as a healthy amount of classism. However, neither blacks nor whites have it. Not enough of it among blacks, but too much of it among whites.

Black Lives Matter is a racist hate group and needs to be shut down.

The media is complicit in sowing this narrative by constantly telling blacks it's all whitey's fault for their problems. However, I don't blame them as much as I do the Sandsjames' of the world, who swallow this anti-white garbage hook line and sinker....

The first problem in this country is White Libtardism. That's #1. # 2 is Black Criminality.



these cops don't know who's who when they apprehend a black person. These cops don't know if a particular black person was born in wedlock, has a police record, a college degree, a steady job, or any of that - all these cops see is a black person. .

They know as soon they run the plates or at least have a pretty good idea when the perp flees or starts trying to resist arrest.

In the case of the registered sex offender on probation & illegally carrying a weapon and supposedly selling CDs in the parking lot of liquor store at Midnight, just what in the hell do you think he was up to?

Rusty Jones
07-18-2016, 05:47 PM
They know as soon as they run the plates or at least have a pretty good idea as soon as the perp flees or starts trying to resist arrest.

They know the person's occupation, education level, their parents' marital status, their net worth, etc?

Poor response. Try again.


In the case of the registered sex offender on probation & illegally carrying a weapon and supposedly selling CDs in the parking lot of liquor store at Midnight, just what in the hell do you think he was up to?

He was a registered sex offender for having sex with a 14 year old when he was 20. While I've never done that myself (I've always preferred women who were roughly my age or older - a woman two years younger than I am is really pushing it for me), I'm willing to bet that some people right here on MTF are guilty of this, or we all know people who are. He simply got caught.

You saw the video. He was already being held down and restrained when he was shot multiple times in the chest. Selling movies in parking lot is not a "shoot to kill" offense.


Black Lives Matter is a racist hate group and needs to be shut down. The media is complicit in sowing this narrative by constantly telling blacks it's all whitey's fault for their problems. However, I don't blame them as much as I do the Liberal white Sandsjames' of the world, who swallow this anti-white garbage hook line and sinker....

The first problem in this country is White Libtardism. That's #1. # 2 is Black Criminality.

BLM is a racist hate group? LOL, I really can't lend much credence to a conservative calling something "racist." Just because they're black and you fear them doesn't make them racist.

WILDJOKER5
07-18-2016, 05:51 PM
They know as soon as they run the plates or at least have a pretty good idea as soon as the perp flees or starts trying to resist arrest.

In the case of the registered sex offender on probation & illegally carrying a weapon and supposedly selling CDs in the parking lot of liquor store at Midnight, just what in the hell do you think he was up to? Black Lives Matter is a racist hate group and needs to be shut down. The media is complicit in sowing this narrative by constantly telling blacks it's all whitey's fault for their problems. However, I don't blame them as much as I do the Liberal white Sandsjames' of the world, who swallow this anti-white garbage hook line and sinker....

The first problem in this country is White Libtardism. That's #1. # 2 is Black Criminality.

You know, I have been doing some house hunting as of late. I find it amusing and pretty stereo typical of how people live. I live in a neighborhood with homes right around 100k. There are 2-5 cars in the front. Some are BMWs, Merc, Mustangs, Camaros, Audis, etc. All flashy, all dubbed out, and what not to show off the "bling". Its a very mixed neighborhood and all races are guilty of having these kinds of cars. Been going to the neighborhoods between 250k and 400k homes, and they are still integrated communities, yes I live in the south, and everyone acts and looks the same. The houses aren't loaded with cars pouring out of their driveways. They don't have big flashy cars. They don't have their kids running around unhinged through the neighborhood. Class doesn't come from wealth, but typically, you cant get wealth without class. Do cops know who they are walking up to just by looking at the person? Yep. And college degrees, and money and home life a side, you can still be classless if you look a certain way, carry yourself a certain way or spend your money frivolously to show everyone how "fly" you are.

WILDJOKER5
07-18-2016, 05:57 PM
They know the person's occupation, education level, their parents' marital status, their net worth, etc?

Poor response. Try again.Nope, but they can see past instances the person has had with police. This pedophile had been recorded fighting with police before, so the cops were on edge already.




He was a registered sex offender for having sex with a 14 year old when he was 20. While I've never done that myself (I've always preferred women who were roughly my age or older - a woman two years younger than I am is really pushing it for me), I'm willing to bet that some people right here on MTF are guilty of this, or we all know people who are. He simply got caught.I honestly don't know anyone like that. Maybe 18 and the girl was 16-17, but 6 years younger when the guy is past his teen years? Don't know what crowd you hang out with.


You saw the video. He was already being held down and restrained when he was shot multiple times in the chest. Selling movies in parking lot is not a "shoot to kill" offense.He wasn't shot for selling CDs, that is such a BS deflection. He was shot because he was still fighting with cops who "knew" he had a gun.



BLM is a racist hate group? LOL, I really can't lend much credence to a conservative calling something "racist." Just because they're black and you fear them doesn't make them racist.

Watch the video I posted all the way through, he will give you the reason why people call it a racist movement more than your false narrative that "you fear them".

Rainmaker
07-18-2016, 06:03 PM
[
They know the person's occupation, education level, their parents' marital status, their net worth, etc?

Poor response. Try again.

No But, they know whether they have a rap sheet or not. I realize that in Liberal Unicorn safe-space land that shouldn't matter. But, out here in grown up world. Common sense dictates that they'll approach the suspect accordingly.



He was a registered sex offender for having sex with a 14 year old when he was 20. While I've never done that myself (I've always preferred women who were roughly my age or older - a woman two years younger than I am is really pushing it for me), I'm willing to bet that some people right here on MTF are guilty of this, or we all know people who are. He simply got caught.

A 20 year old fucking a middle school student? Where Rainmaker comes from we call that a pedophile. Remember Men: 1/2 your age plus 7 rule.


Selling movies in parking lot is not a "shoot to kill" offense.

Who buys Cd's anymore? Rainmaker'll take full double odds that this douchebag wasn't just selling Cd's.


BLM is a racist hate group? LOL, I really can't lend much credence to a conservative calling something "racist." Just because they're black and you fear them doesn't make them racist.

Rainmaker don't fear BLM. He despises them

WILDJOKER5
07-18-2016, 06:06 PM
https://youtu.be/hEhUP4097JM

https://youtu.be/P3LXFv2RyTM?t=1h49m9s

Couple of more videos. Refutes everything you say Rusty, every time. When you come up with some more apologetic nonsense, just replay these videos so we don't have to keep showing you why you are wrong.

Rusty Jones
07-18-2016, 06:29 PM
Nope, but they can see past instances the person has had with police. This pedophile had been recorded fighting with police before, so the cops were on edge already.

Wrong. The cops didn't know who he was or what he had done in the past. Quit trying to say that there are ways for cops to figure that shit out while walking up to a man in the parking lot, because there aren't.


I honestly don't know anyone like that. Maybe 18 and the girl was 16-17, but 6 years younger when the guy is past his teen years? Don't know what crowd you hang out with.

So you never knew girls in high school that were fucking men in their 20's? Hell, plenty of girls in my high school were fucking Airmen out of Dover AFB.


He wasn't shot for selling CDs, that is such a BS deflection. He was shot because he was still fighting with cops who "knew" he had a gun.

And that gun was a non-factor when he was shot. That gun was not pointed to any cop, nor was it even in his hands.


Watch the video I posted all the way through, he will give you the reason why people call it a racist movement more than your false narrative that "you fear them".

I'm at work and don't have any headphones, so I'm not able to. In any case, the people calling it a racist movement probably think the same way you do anyway, so that video really doesn't matter.

Rusty Jones
07-18-2016, 06:37 PM
No But, they know whether they have a rap sheet or not. I realize that in Liberal Unicorn safe-space land that shouldn't matter. But, out here in grown up world. Common sense dictates that they'll approach the suspect accordingly.

You can't look at a man in a parking lot and tell what kind of rap sheet he's got.


A 20 year old fucking a middle school student? Where Rainmaker comes from we call that a pedophile. Remember Men: 1/2 your age plus 7 rule.

Anything to pin such harsh words on a black man, I suppose.


Who buys Cd's anymore? Rainmaker'll take full double odds that this douchebag wasn't just selling Cd's.

DVDs. And it doesn't matter what you'll "take full double odds on."


Rainmaker don't fear BLM. He despises them

No, you fear them. That's why you want them "shut down." How DARE a group of people fight for their right to exist without being killed by someone who will never be punished for it?

WILDJOKER5
07-18-2016, 06:39 PM
Wrong. The cops didn't know who he was or what he had done in the past. Quit trying to say that there are ways for cops to figure that shit out while walking up to a man in the parking lot, because there aren't.Talking about when someone is pulled over. As for the CD guy, the cops were called because "someone" was waiving a gun around and threatening people. That puts the cops on edge already. Don't ignore the facts, the cops didn't come by cause he was selling CDs.


So you never knew girls in high school that were fucking men in their 20's? Hell, plenty of girls in my high school were fucking Airmen out of Dover AFB.Nope, I am like you, and prefer older women. I hung out with women I worked with, not the ditsy high school chicks.


And that gun was a non-factor when he was shot. That gun was not pointed to any cop, nor was it even in his hands.Doesn't need to be when wearing sweat pants. The gun he had could have been used without his hand being in his pockets, he could have pulled the trigger from the outside of his pants.


I'm at work and don't have any headphones, so I'm not able to. In any case, the people calling it a racist movement probably think the same way you do anyway, so that video really doesn't matter.
There is no reason for me to "fear" BLM. They want to try to harass me, they will find out why CC permits are a good thing. BLM is racist, don't fear the truth.

WILDJOKER5
07-18-2016, 06:41 PM
No, you fear them. That's why you want them "shut down." How DARE a group of people fight for their right to exist without being killed by someone who will never be punished for it?Isnt that why the KKK was considered a racist group, cause blacks feared them? Anyways, show me an incident of blacks being killed unjustifiably and the cops not get punished for it.

sparks82
07-18-2016, 07:03 PM
[

No But, they know whether they have a rap sheet or not. I realize that in Liberal Unicorn safe-space land that shouldn't matter. But, out here in grown up world. Common sense dictates that they'll approach the suspect accordingly.




A 20 year old fucking a middle school student? Where Rainmaker comes from we call that a pedophile. Remember Men: 1/2 your age plus 7 rule.



Who buys Cd's anymore? Rainmaker'll take full double odds that this douchebag wasn't just selling Cd's.



Rainmaker don't fear BLM. He despises them

Technically he wasn't a pedophile if she was 14. He's a sick bastard for being 20 and screwing a 14 year old but the definition of pedophilia is: "Pedophilia is defined as the fantasy or act of sexual activity with prepubescent children." Prepubescent is 13 or younger.

Some people do still buy DVDs and CDs. Not often but they do. Also it was called in by a homeless guy who apparently was bothering whoever it was he called in and the guy flashed his gun to get him to go away.

Also the cops had no idea of his prior convictions when they approached him. How would they? They didn't know who they were looking for. They didn't get a call that said "Alton Sterling is flashing a gun." They got a general description.

sparks82
07-18-2016, 07:05 PM
Nope, but they can see past instances the person has had with police. This pedophile had been recorded fighting with police before, so the cops were on edge already.
I honestly don't know anyone like that. Maybe 18 and the girl was 16-17, but 6 years younger when the guy is past his teen years? Don't know what crowd you hang out with.

He wasn't shot for selling CDs, that is such a BS deflection. He was shot because he was still fighting with cops who "knew" he had a gun.



Watch the video I posted all the way through, he will give you the reason why people call it a racist movement more than your false narrative that "you fear them".

They have stated repeatedly that the police did not know who he was when they approached him. They did not know his name when they saw him. They did not know his criminal history. So how would they know he had a prior altercation with police? They wouldn't so they wouldn't be "on edge" especially if he was the second person they questioned.

Rusty Jones
07-18-2016, 07:07 PM
Isnt that why the KKK was considered a racist group, cause blacks feared them? Anyways, show me an incident of blacks being killed unjustifiably and the cops not get punished for it.

Sorry, I don't have time to argue each and every case since 2012 with you; and I know that's what you're trying to drag me into.

sparks82
07-18-2016, 07:16 PM
Isnt that why the KKK was considered a racist group, cause blacks feared them? Anyways, show me an incident of blacks being killed unjustifiably and the cops not get punished for it.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-cop-verdict-servin-edit-0423-20150422-story.html
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/04/21/3649043/judge-lets-cop-walk-deadly-shooting-thought-charges-werent-severe-enough/

"Three sources of information about deaths caused by police—the FBI numbers, figures from the Centers for Disease Control and data at the Bureau of Justice Statistics—differ from one another widely in any given year or state, according to a 2012 report by David Klinger, a criminologist with the University of Missouri-St. Louis and a onetime police officer." http://www.wsj.com/articles/hundreds-of-police-killings-are-uncounted-in-federal-statistics-1417577504

Rusty Jones
07-18-2016, 07:24 PM
Isnt that why the KKK was considered a racist group, cause blacks feared them?

What kind of acts did the KKK participate that made blacks fear them again? BLM is simply calling out bullshit practices that grants police officers the right to kill people with no consequence.

Look, if you want BLM to be considered a "hate" group; then I suggest you contact the Southern Poverty Law Center and ask them to add BLM.

However, my prediction is that the SPLC will laugh in your face and hang up, and you won't be the first person that it will have happened to; nor will you be the last.

Rainmaker
07-18-2016, 07:25 PM
Sorry, I don't have time to argue each and every case since 2012 with you; and I know that's what you're trying to drag me into.

True dat. What if they held a race war and no one showed up? There's bigger fish to fry!

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/07/14/pokemon-go-sign-driving-police-distracted/

sandsjames
07-18-2016, 07:28 PM
None of this shit helps anything...I'll get all "changey hopey" for the sake of annoying RM...we've got 3 choices...the first is that all the white people kill all the black people...the second is that all the black people kill all the white people...the third, which is really my preference, is that we figure out a way to quit blaming the other guy for what happened and start taking responsibility...on both sides. Cops have a tough job...blacks have a tough life...blaming the other guy ain't gonna fix shit. Nothing is going to get better.

Rusty Jones
07-18-2016, 07:32 PM
None of this shit helps anything...I'll get all "changey hopey" for the sake of annoying RM...we've got 3 choices...the first is that all the white people kill all the black people...the second is that all the black people kill all the white people...the third, which is really my preference, is that we figure out a way to quit blaming the other guy for what happened and start taking responsibility...on both sides. Cops have a tough job...blacks have a tough life...blaming the other guy ain't gonna fix shit. Nothing is going to get better.

While I don't like seeing people die, will cops getting picked off (i.e., both sides suffering losses) force police officers to come to the discussion table?

I think that's all that's being asked for.

Rainmaker
07-18-2016, 07:32 PM
Look, if you want BLM to be considered a "hate" group; then I suggest you contact the Southern Poverty Law Center and ask them to add BLM.


However, my prediction is that the SPLC will laugh in your face and hang up, and you won't be the first person that it will have happened to; nor will you be the last.

Of course they would. How else would you expect "The perpetual enemy of Christ" that's running the SPLC to respond?

WILDJOKER5
07-18-2016, 07:47 PM
Sorry, I don't have time to argue each and every case since 2012 with you; and I know that's what you're trying to drag me into.

Just find the one.

Rainmaker
07-18-2016, 07:56 PM
None of this shit helps anything...I'll get all "changey hopey" for the sake of annoying RM...we've got 3 choices...

Rainmaker'll take option 4 "The American Colonization Society" for $200 Alex!

WILDJOKER5
07-18-2016, 08:01 PM
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/editorials/ct-cop-verdict-servin-edit-0423-20150422-story.html
http://thinkprogress.org/justice/2015/04/21/3649043/judge-lets-cop-walk-deadly-shooting-thought-charges-werent-severe-enough/Same story about the same person. I guess its my fault for being pretty vague and not thinking when I typed it out. Yes, I concede there is a time or two when a cop gets away with their behavior. This guy was a douche, but he was not aiming for the woman, and he was threatened. It wasn't cause he killed a black woman, it was cause the AG didn't bring harsher charges according to the judge and what he was being tried for was not what he did. It was a technicality of our judicial system, not because of race or being a cop.


"Three sources of information about deaths caused by police—the FBI numbers, figures from the Centers for Disease Control and data at the Bureau of Justice Statistics—differ from one another widely in any given year or state, according to a 2012 report by David Klinger, a criminologist with the University of Missouri-St. Louis and a onetime police officer." http://www.wsj.com/articles/hundreds-of-police-killings-are-uncounted-in-federal-statistics-1417577504
I cant read this story cause it wants me to login or sign up.

WILDJOKER5
07-18-2016, 08:04 PM
What kind of acts did the KKK participate that made blacks fear them again? BLM is simply calling out bullshit practices that grants police officers the right to kill people with no consequence.And calling for deaths of cops, and some of their members actually killing (white) cops. Just like the KKK. Remember, the KKK killed more whites than they killed blacks.


Look, if you want BLM to be considered a "hate" group; then I suggest you contact the Southern Poverty Law Center and ask them to add BLM.I think that was tried with a petition to the WH, but they turned it down.


However, my prediction is that the SPLC will laugh in your face and hang up, and you won't be the first person that it will have happened to; nor will you be the last.

And? Hitler was named time magazines "man of the year". Does that mean he was great to everyone?

sandsjames
07-18-2016, 08:05 PM
While I don't like seeing people die, will cops getting picked off (i.e., both sides suffering losses) force police officers to come to the discussion table?

I think that's all that's being asked for.

It's going to make things worse, not better. The problem it creates is that you already have people equating BLM to terrorists and now we're being asked to negotiate with those terrorists. I'm well aware that these shooters do not represent BLM but you have to realize that this is happening in the same country that has a presidential candidate talking about banning all muslims, and people actually thinking it's a good idea.

There are far better ways than picking off cops. That's simply going to make cops go in with a more itchy trigger finger.

WILDJOKER5
07-18-2016, 08:09 PM
While I don't like seeing people die, will cops getting picked off (i.e., both sides suffering losses) force police officers to come to the discussion table?

I think that's all that's being asked for.

No its not. BLM wants cops dead. There is no "discussion table" because no one in BLM want to own up to the facts. Blacks are 10X more likely to resist arrest, but only 2x more likely to be shot. Black males make up 6% of the population, but commit 40% of the crime in America. What else do you want cops to do in situations where they are dealing with a demographic that is more proportionate to fight while being arrested and commits most of the violent crimes? And the cops are 18X more likely to die from a black male than a black male dying by a cop.

sandsjames
07-18-2016, 08:12 PM
While I don't like seeing people die, will cops getting picked off (i.e., both sides suffering losses) force police officers to come to the discussion table?

I think that's all that's being asked for.I think another thing that makes it difficult for people to understand (white people, specifically) is that minority cops are involved in the "suspects" getting shot and getting shot themselves by the shooters. So us white folks are saying "How can this be racism if there are black cops and involved?"

I know the answer given, that the black cops involved are victim to the white folks around them, but I don't buy it.

That's why I still don't think it's so much a race issue as it is a class and circumstance issue.

sandsjames
07-18-2016, 08:13 PM
And calling for deaths of cops, and some of their members actually killing (white) cops. Just like the KKK. Remember, the KKK killed more whites than they killed blacks.

Not sure why you put "white" in parentheses. Black cops are getting shot too.

Rusty Jones
07-18-2016, 08:14 PM
No its not. BLM wants cops dead.

You need to stop listening to Michael Savage and turn off Fox News.

Rainmaker
07-18-2016, 08:19 PM
No its not. BLM wants cops dead. There is no "discussion table" because no one in BLM want to own up to the facts. Blacks are 10X more likely to resist arrest, but only 2x more likely to be shot. Black males make up 6% of the population, but commit 40% of the crime in America. What else do you want cops to do in situations where they are dealing with a demographic that is more proportionate to fight while being arrested and commits most of the violent crimes? And the cops are 18X more likely to die from a black male than a black male dying by a cop.

True. But, make sure to spell out that you're talking about the crime "rate" and not just total #s. otherwise the progressive useful idiots (that can't figure out that there are 6X as many whites as blacks & how to draw a logical conclusion from statistics) will start endlessly debating you about the facts.

WILDJOKER5
07-18-2016, 08:25 PM
Not sure why you put "white" in parentheses. Black cops are getting shot too.

Cause the Dallas shooter was specific in saying he wanted to kill white cops. Yeah, every race in uniform is being killed by BLM supporters and members, that's why I added the last sentence.

WILDJOKER5
07-18-2016, 08:30 PM
You need to stop listening to Michael Savage and turn off Fox News.

Watch the videos I showed you. The BLM protesters are walking down the street chanting "What do we want? "DEAD COPS!!!" When do we want it? "NOW!!!"

Sorry, your prejudices don't work here, I don't have any cable and don't listen the Savage. Try not to be so racist in your dismissing condescension next time.

WILDJOKER5
07-18-2016, 08:35 PM
True. But, make sure to spell out that you're talking about the crime "rate" and not just total #s. otherwise the progressive useful idiots (that can't figure out that there are 6X as many whites as blacks & how to draw a logical conclusion from statistics) will start endlessly debating you about the facts.

No, that is total numbers. Of all violent crimes, blacks commit 40% of them in America. Not per capita. That figure would be talking about whites commit crime against blacks of 36 to 100,000 blacks. Where as blacks commit crime against whites of 849 to 100,000 whites. That's a hell of a lot of crime going on against whites per capita since there are so many more whites than blacks. Its not a statistic, its actual numbers that cant be justified.

Rainmaker
07-18-2016, 08:55 PM
No, that is total numbers. Of all violent crimes, blacks commit 40% of them in America. Not per capita. That figure would be talking about whites commit crime against blacks of 36 to 100,000 blacks. Where as blacks commit crime against whites of 849 to 100,000 whites. That's a hell of a lot of crime going on against whites per capita since there are so many more whites than blacks. Its not a statistic, its actual numbers that cant be justified.

Yeah rainmaker passed 7th grade math...so he gets it.

Just pointing it out before sparks82 starts posting links from hufpo and gets you trapped in the endless doloop of her screaming "But, whites commit crimes too!" and making a moral equivalence between that and the horrendous rate of criminality among blacks the world over.

garhkal
07-19-2016, 06:09 AM
And calling for deaths of cops, and some of their members actually killing (white) cops. Just like the KKK. Remember, the KKK killed more whites than they killed blacks.

I think that was tried with a petition to the WH, but they turned it down.


I am actually surprised the SPLC is itself not on a hate list.. Especially with what else they see as being a hate org..


You need to stop listening to Michael Savage and turn off Fox News.

Its not just savage/fox saying that though. BLM itself cried out "What do we want, dead cops, when do we want them, Now" at several of their larger rallys, along with the infamous "Pigs in a blanket roll them up and fry them" chant.

sparks82
07-20-2016, 04:55 PM
And calling for deaths of cops, and some of their members actually killing (white) cops. Just like the KKK. Remember, the KKK killed more whites than they killed blacks.

I think that was tried with a petition to the WH, but they turned it down.



And? Hitler was named time magazines "man of the year". Does that mean he was great to everyone?

The petition was to label them a terrorist group and the WH said they don't do that. They don't determine terrorist groups.

Time's "Man of the Year" wasn't about who was the greatest or best person of the year. It was about who had the biggest impact on the world and now "Person of the Year" is the same. Who had the biggest impact on the world - good or bad?

sparks82
07-20-2016, 04:57 PM
True dat. What if they held a race war and no one showed up? There's bigger fish to fry!

http://boston.cbslocal.com/2016/07/14/pokemon-go-sign-driving-police-distracted/

Well among humans there is only one race so - there can never be a "race war." Now if a separate species of human is found then we can have a race war.

Rainmaker
07-20-2016, 05:25 PM
well among humans there is only one race so - there can never be a "race war." now if a separate species of human is found then we can have a race war.

OH GOODY!!!! MOAR KOOL-AiD!!!!!!!

sparks82
07-20-2016, 05:55 PM
OH GOODY!!!! MOAR KOOL-AiD!!!!!!!

It's not Koolaid - it's scientific fact that was determined in the 1950s as well. Biologically there is only ONE race of humans. Race is a social construct.

garhkal
07-20-2016, 07:03 PM
The petition was to label them a terrorist group and the WH said they don't do that. They don't determine terrorist groups.

Strange. IN 2015 that's exactly what they did (or the opposite) when they claimed the Taliban was no longer a terror group..

Rainmaker
07-20-2016, 07:07 PM
It's not Koolaid - it's scientific fact that was determined in the 1950s as well. Biologically there is only ONE race of humans. Race is a social construct.

Okay Honey. Now, we know your heart is in the right place & we also know Chicks don't do math and science very well and Rainmaker hates to be the bearer of bad news and violate your safe space ...... But, your Marxist fruitcake professor, that was trying to get in your pants at the college wasn't being completely honest with you...... Race is actually Biological and is not "just a social construct". The races are not physiologically the same. There are biological differences. That's the reason the FDA does race and ethnicity-based testing in its Pharmaceutical trials.

Rollyn01
07-20-2016, 07:22 PM
Okay Honey. Now, we know your heart is in the right place & we also know Chicks don't do math and science very well and Rainmaker hates to be the bearer of bad news and violate your safe space ...... But, your Marxist fruitcake professor, that was trying to get in your pants at the college wasn't being completely honest with you...... Race is actually Biological and is not "just a social construct". The races are not physiologically the same. There are biological differences. That's the reason the FDA does race and ethnicity-based testing in its Pharmaceutical trials.

You know fully well that's due to cultural-based dietary constraints, not biologically-based racial differences.

Rainmaker
07-20-2016, 07:42 PM
You know fully well that's due to cultural-based dietary constraints, not biologically-based racial differences.

Come on. Don't be retarded. That's like saying all breeds of dogs have the exact same physical and mental strengths and weaknesses (characteristics) and are therefore equally suited for the same role. But, the only difference is what you're feeding them.

You wouldn't use a dachshund for K9 attack training and then blame the cops for being racist when he fails.

sparks82
07-20-2016, 07:50 PM
Okay Honey. Now, we know your heart is in the right place & we also know Chicks don't do math and science very well and Rainmaker hates to be the bearer of bad news and violate your safe space ...... But, your Marxist fruitcake professor, that was trying to get in your pants at the college wasn't being completely honest with you...... Race is actually Biological and is not "just a social construct". The races are not physiologically the same. There are biological differences. That's the reason the FDA does race and ethnicity-based testing in its Pharmaceutical trials.


I never had a "Marxist fruitcake professor" who tried to get in my pants. I never heard this in college. I've read about it on my own. None of my college professors tried to get in my pants because they aren't raging perverts nor would I have let any of them in my pants had they tried.

If you ask a geneticist to give you a genetic definition of race, they wouldn't be able to give you one. What we view as races are not natural genetic groups, they are socially constructed categories. Geneticists will tell you that the objective genetic definition of race shows human races don't exist. What humans call race are pure social categories and are not biological. The only biological race among our species is homo sapiens sapiens. Race exists purely as a social category.

Many societies, like the US, make these racial classifications to put together groups of people with a variety of historical, linguistic, ethnic, religious, etc backgrounds. These categories have and do change over time. So if they were biological why are they so easily changed? At a point in US history Irish were not seen as "white" by the government. Most Hispanics don't view themselves as "white" even if the legal definition includes them. If it's biological how can the government change the definition of a race?

There are no specific racial genes. There are no neurological patterns that distinguish one race from another nor in muscle structure, digestive tract, hand eye coordination, etc. There is no biological element unique to the groups we call black, white, Hispanic, Asian, etc.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23684745


We all know what a racist, homophobic, sexist bigot you are as evidenced by your posts.

sparks82
07-20-2016, 07:51 PM
Come on. Don't be retarded. That's like saying all breeds of dogs have the exact same physical and mental strengths and weaknesses (characteristics) and are therefore equally suited for the same role. But, the only difference is what you're feeding them.

You wouldn't use a dachshund for K9 attack training and then blame the cops for being racist when he fails.

Now who's being retarded?

WILDJOKER5
07-20-2016, 07:53 PM
You know fully well that's due to cultural-based dietary constraints, not biologically-based racial differences.

Why is it only one portion of the population with a certain amount of melanin production gets cycle cell?

sparks82
07-20-2016, 08:04 PM
Why is it only one portion of the population with a certain amount of melanin production gets cycle cell?

Do you mean sickle cell anemia? I don't know what cycle cell is...

http://www.hematology.org/Patients/Anemia/Sickle-Cell.aspx

"Sickle cell trait is an inherited blood disorder that affects approximately 8 percent of African-Americans. Unlike sickle cell disease, in which patients have two genes that cause the production of abnormal hemoglobin, individuals with sickle cell trait carry only one defective gene and typically live normal lives without health problems related to sickle cell. Rarely, extreme conditions such as severe dehydration and high-intensity physical activity can lead to serious health issues, including sudden death, in individuals with sickle cell trait."

Sickle cell anemia is more common in certain ethnic groups, including:

People of African descent, including African-Americans (among whom 1 in 12 carries a sickle cell gene)
Hispanic-Americans from Central and South America
People of Middle Eastern, Asian, Indian, and Mediterranean descent


Ethnicity is not a race. Look at all the type of people who can get it. Your skin color has no bearing on it. Sickle cell is found more frequently in those of Middle Eastern, Indian, Mediterranean and African heritage because those geographic regions are most prone to malaria.

http://www.understandingrace.org/humvar/sickle_01.html

https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/sca/atrisk

http://www.netwellness.org/healthtopics/sicklecell/sicklecellblackdisease.cfm

WILDJOKER5
07-20-2016, 08:28 PM
Do you mean sickle cell anemia? I don't know what cycle cell is...

http://www.hematology.org/Patients/Anemia/Sickle-Cell.aspx[

"Sickle cell trait is an inherited blood disorder that affects approximately 8 percent of African-Americans. Unlike sickle cell disease, in which patients have two genes that cause the production of abnormal hemoglobin, individuals with sickle cell trait carry only one defective gene and typically live normal lives without health problems related to sickle cell. Rarely, extreme conditions such as severe dehydration and high-intensity physical activity can lead to serious health issues, including sudden death, in individuals with sickle cell trait." Yeah, sorry. My spell check gave me the other. I do suck at spelling some times.


Sickle cell anemia is more common in certain ethnic groups, including:

People of African descent, including African-Americans (among whom 1 in 12 carries a sickle cell gene)
Hispanic-Americans from Central and South America
People of Middle Eastern, Asian, Indian, and Mediterranean descent


Ethnicity is not a race. Look at all the type of people who can get it. Your skin color has no bearing on it. Sickle cell is found more frequently in those of Middle Eastern, Indian, Mediterranean and African heritage because those geographic regions are most prone to malaria.

http://www.understandingrace.org/humvar/sickle_01.html

https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/health/health-topics/topics/sca/atrisk

http://www.netwellness.org/healthtopics/sicklecell/sicklecellblackdisease.cfm

All groups of people that have had many generations of interbreeding with those from the African continent. But what you are saying is that the defective gene comes from exposure to malaria? Then why don't Northern Europeans share this gene since we all came from Africa right? Did malaria start up after those people moved away? Did the gene get corrupted down the line? Or did the interbreeding with Neanderthals repair that corrupted gene?

Rainmaker
07-20-2016, 08:44 PM
Do you mean sickle cell anemia?

Look at all the type of people who can get it.


Your skin color has no bearing on it.


Sickle cell is found more frequently in those of Middle Eastern, Indian, Mediterranean and African heritage because those geographic regions are most prone to malaria.

In other words it's found in people with darker skin colors. It's basically non-existent in "white" populations.


Ethnicity is not a race

Correct. Ethnicity is defined as "the fact or state of belonging to a social group that has a common national or cultural tradition".

So, if what you're saying is true and "African descent" is an ethnicity and not a race, then it stands to reason, that they should just be able to change their social group or move to another country and they'll no longer be at a 10% risk for contacting sickle-cell disease.
Is that correct? why or why not?

By the way before you answer.
Race is defined as:
a : an actually or potentially interbreeding group within a species; also : a taxonomic category (as a subspecies) representing such a group
b : breed
c : a category of humankind that shares certain distinctive physical traits

See? This" no such thing as race" is the same stupid Marxist Bullshit they're pulling with the redefining of Men and Women into 56 different categories of Gender. So, whether you want to call it race or ethnicity. Or whatever, It won't change the FACTS because Genetics don't Lie.

Rainmaker
07-20-2016, 08:53 PM
Now who's being retarded?

I appreciate your input!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xat1GVnl8-k

Rollyn01
07-20-2016, 09:18 PM
Yeah, sorry. My spell check gave me the other. I do suck at spelling some times.



All groups of people that have had many generations of interbreeding with those from the African continent. But what you are saying is that the defective gene comes from exposure to malaria? Then why don't Northern Europeans share this gene since we all came from Africa right? Did malaria start up after those people moved away? Did the gene get corrupted down the line? Or did the interbreeding with Neanderthals repair that corrupted gene?

Meanwhile, the primary vectors of the disease (mosquitoes), don't breed as much in the temperate and polar zones as they do in the tropic zones. This reduces the amount of people they can infect with malaria. Where's most of Europe located again?

Rainmaker
07-20-2016, 09:23 PM
Meanwhile, the primary vectors of the disease (mosquitoes), don't breed as much in the temperate and polar zones as they do in the tropic zones.

Obviously these Mosquitoes are racist!

Rollyn01
07-20-2016, 09:28 PM
Come on. Don't be retarded. That's like saying all breeds of dogs have the exact same physical and mental strengths and weaknesses (characteristics) and are therefore equally suited for the same role. But, the only difference is what you're feeding them.

You wouldn't use a dachshund for K9 attack training and then blame the cops for being racist when he fails.

Dude, you failed yourself. My response was on the ethical/racial testing of medicine, not the jobs that can be assigned by race. All of what you just said gives more credence to the notion that skin color has nothing to do with whether or not someone can do a job. By your analog, only the strong can be in the military which, if you're paying attention, many people of many colors and races can do so long as the have the physical/mental attributes to do so. You used to be better at trolling/arguing. What the fuck happened to you?

Rainmaker
07-20-2016, 10:27 PM
Did the gene get corrupted down the line? Or did the interbreeding with Neanderthals repair that corrupted gene?

When it comes to having Neanderthal DNA, a little goes a long way.

efmbman
07-20-2016, 11:10 PM
I think part of the reason BLM is viewed poorly is because many less desirable characters are using the BLM name in a way in which it was not intended. BLM needs to get organized at the national level if they are to be taken seriously. Spontaneous demonstrations that lead to violence are (in my opinion) contrary to their message. By having a national office, they could quickly distance themselves from those incidents that do not have their endorsement. I fully support peaceful demonstrations but blocking traffic is not the answer. Violence to protest violence is not the answer. At this point, however, any incident that is denounced by BML would be viewed as suspect - it may be too late.
Reminds me in a way of the Occupy movement. It died out and let a sour taste because the cause was perverted by groups that jumped on a bandwagon and garnered negative attention to an otherwise peaceful movement.

For the bigger picture, they should have made the hashtag to read #blacklivesmattertoo. That might help avoid the alienation issues associated with the ideology.

Rainmaker
07-21-2016, 03:16 AM
I think part of the reason BLM is viewed poorly is because many less desirable characters are using the BLM name in a way in which it was not intended.

Agree.... here's a feminist "herstory" from one of the original BLM founders lamenting just that in the paragraph titled: "The Theft of Black Queer Women’s Work"

http://www.thefeministwire.com/2014/10/blacklivesmatter-2/

And as you pointed out, the message has since been changed by one of the current Queer, a-gender Black fat femme writer, free-figure revolutionaries and community organizers in to: "Fuck You, Pay Me: Reparations for Fat Black Bitches and Everything We Provide"

http://wearyourvoicemag.com/body-politics/fuck-pay-reparations-fat-black-bitches-everything-provide

Yep, These deep thinkers behind #blacklivesmatters are right up there with the greatest minds of the western intellectual tradition!

garhkal
07-21-2016, 06:55 AM
I think part of the reason BLM is viewed poorly is because many less desirable characters are using the BLM name in a way in which it was not intended. BLM needs to get organized at the national level if they are to be taken seriously. Spontaneous demonstrations that lead to violence are (in my opinion) contrary to their message. By having a national office, they could quickly distance themselves from those incidents that do not have their endorsement. I fully support peaceful demonstrations but blocking traffic is not the answer. Violence to protest violence is not the answer. At this point, however, any incident that is denounced by BML would be viewed as suspect - it may be too late.
Reminds me in a way of the Occupy movement. It died out and let a sour taste because the cause was perverted by groups that jumped on a bandwagon and garnered negative attention to an otherwise peaceful movement.

For the bigger picture, they should have made the hashtag to read #blacklivesmattertoo. That might help avoid the alienation issues associated with the ideology.

I liked the comparison to Occupy.. And i agree, as disorganized as that eventually got what good they MIGHT have attained, was washed away from all the negativity.


And as you pointed out, the message has since been changed by one of the current Queer, a-gender Black fat femme writer, free-figure revolutionaries and community organizers in to: "Fuck You, Pay Me: Reparations for Fat Black Bitches and Everything We Provide"

http://wearyourvoicemag.com/body-politics/fuck-pay-reparations-fat-black-bitches-everything-provide

Yep, These deep thinkers behind #blacklivesmatters are right up there with the greatest minds of the western intellectual tradition!

What the heck?? She thinks cause of her ass being fat and ugly, we need to PAY her for her condition?

sandsjames
07-21-2016, 11:51 AM
http://on.ktla.com/NX3nJ

Ok...defend these cops. Tell me how we don't know what happened off camera. Convince yourselves.

WILDJOKER5
07-21-2016, 12:19 PM
I think part of the reason BLM is viewed poorly is because many less desirable characters are using the BLM name in a way in which it was not intended. BLM needs to get organized at the national level if they are to be taken seriously. Spontaneous demonstrations that lead to violence are (in my opinion) contrary to their message. By having a national office, they could quickly distance themselves from those incidents that do not have their endorsement. I fully support peaceful demonstrations but blocking traffic is not the answer. Violence to protest violence is not the answer. At this point, however, any incident that is denounced by BML would be viewed as suspect - it may be too late.
Reminds me in a way of the Occupy movement. It died out and let a sour taste because the cause was perverted by groups that jumped on a bandwagon and garnered negative attention to an otherwise peaceful movement.

For the bigger picture, they should have made the hashtag to read #blacklivesmattertoo. That might help avoid the alienation issues associated with the ideology.
Funny, no one has ever died due to the TEA party and they have never been nationally organized. They actually leave places cleaner than when they arrived. Maybe its a difference in the ideology the make up each "grass root" movement? BLM, talks about race, entitlement, violence, death of cops and whites, anti-American, and is hailed as trying to bring equality and is considered by the MSM as a "peaceful" organization. The TEA party has nothing to do with race, wants smaller government, less taxes, more freedoms, never talks about race, but the MSM calls it dangerous, racist, and the left has called it "domestic terrorist group". Funny this is the 2nd time the left has tried to have a grassroots movement and just like OWS, its violent, full of criminals, and entitlement minded thugs. I'd say because socialist and leftist teach you to be greedy and immature.

Mjölnir
07-21-2016, 12:33 PM
http://on.ktla.com/NX3nJ

Ok...defend these cops. Tell me how we don't know what happened off camera. Convince yourselves.

There may be no defense. It looks like the department is handling it correctly, officer is put on administrative leave, they are asking for witnesses and any other video etc. The department statement does say that the officers on scene didn't know who the therapist was. It could be a pretty clear violation of procedure.

efmbman
07-21-2016, 12:49 PM
Funny, no one has ever died due to the TEA party and they have never been nationally organized.

I'm pretty sure I didn't mention the tea party. So that is funny.


BLM, talks about race, entitlement, violence, death of cops and whites, anti-American, and is hailed as trying to bring equality and is considered by the MSM as a "peaceful" organization.

As I implied, I believe that most of the people we hear about are using the BLM name in a perverted way. Just because someone is holding up a sign with BLM on it does not mean that person represents the founding principles of the movement. But they sure know it will get them on the news. I would not be surprised to learn that some people with BLM signs are doing the violence simply to discredit the name.


The TEA party has nothing to do with race, wants smaller government, less taxes, more freedoms, never talks about race, but the MSM calls it dangerous, racist, and the left has called it "domestic terrorist group". Funny this is the 2nd time the left has tried to have a grassroots movement and just like OWS, its violent, full of criminals, and entitlement minded thugs. I'd say because socialist and leftist teach you to be greedy and immature.

Again, I didn't mention the tea party. I was unaware that this thread included a discussion about the tea party. My post had nothing to do with the tea party. I'm not sure how I am expected to respond.

WILDJOKER5
07-21-2016, 01:27 PM
I'm pretty sure I didn't mention the tea party. So that is funny.Yeah, you didn't mention them, and I am not really against you. Im just saying that being nationally organized instead of separate entities really wont stop the behavior that the left breeds into their followers.


As I implied, I believe that most of the people we hear about are using the BLM name in a perverted way. Just because someone is holding up a sign with BLM on it does not mean that person represents the founding principles of the movement. But they sure know it will get them on the news. I would not be surprised to learn that some people with BLM signs are doing the violence simply to discredit the name.So these black people who claim to be with the BLM and doing violence while being cheered by other BLM activists are just plants? Now, we saw plants at TEA party movements, and every single one of them were surrounded and escorted out of the march or gathering. Not to mention, you hear rallies of BLM chanting "What do we want? DEAD COPS!!!", but that is just planted people trying to discredit the movement? When was the last time you heard any TEA party rally chanting about wanting anyone dead?


Again, I didn't mention the tea party. I was unaware that this thread included a discussion about the tea party. My post had nothing to do with the tea party. I'm not sure how I am expected to respond.I was piggy backing on your comment to show the hypocrisy of those who defend BLM but were also adamant about how "dangerous" the TEA party was going to be.

efmbman
07-21-2016, 01:42 PM
Yeah, you didn't mention them, and I am not really against you. [break] I was piggy backing on your comment to show the hypocrisy... Understood. Most debates these days are filled with hypocrisy. I'm guilty of it, too.


So these black people who claim to be with the BLM and doing violence while being cheered by other BLM activists are just plants? Now, we saw plants at TEA party movements, and every single one of them were surrounded and escorted out of the march or gathering. Not to mention, you hear rallies of BLM chanting "What do we want? DEAD COPS!!!", but that is just planted people trying to discredit the movement? When was the last time you heard any TEA party rally chanting about wanting anyone dead?

I don't know to be honest. It's just that I wouldn't be surprised. Stranger and wilder things have happened in the course of history to demonize groups and sway opinion. I can't speak on the activities of the tea party. I never really paid much attention to them. I fairly certain that their agenda was focused on issues other than violence and police shootings. Perhaps not a fair comparison.

Rainmaker
07-21-2016, 02:32 PM
http://on.ktla.com/NX3nJ

Ok...defend these cops. Tell me how we don't know what happened off camera. Convince yourselves.

Ok, @ 1:55 of the video the reporter states "wrong because Kinsey was then shot in the leg. It wasn't caught on camera. But, he says he had his hands up the entire time".

So, why WASN'T that part caught on camera? If you want to convict him ,in the court of public opinion, based on video evidence and hearsay alone, then you're going to have to be able to answer the question: How do we know for sure that he had his hands up the entire time?

sandsjames
07-21-2016, 02:45 PM
Ok, @ 1:55 of the video the reporter states "wrong because Kinsey was then shot in the leg. It wasn't caught on camera. But, he says he had his hands up the entire time".

So, why WASN'T that part caught on camera? If you want to convict him ,in the court of public opinion, based on video evidence and hearsay alone, then you're going to have to be able to answer the question: How do we know for sure that he had his hands up the entire time?

Right on cue! Thanks dude.

Obvious troll is obvious.

Rainmaker
07-21-2016, 04:13 PM
Dude, you failed yourself. My response was on the ethical/racial testing of medicine, not the jobs that can be assigned by race. All of what you just said gives more credence to the notion that skin color has nothing to do with whether or not someone can do a job. By your analog, only the strong can be in the military which, if you're paying attention, many people of many colors and races can do so long as the have the physical/mental attributes to do so. You used to be better at trolling/arguing. What the fuck happened to you?

No bruddah. You failed. The fact is that the FDA tests for drug response based on a variety of factors including race and genetic factors . To pretend they don't ain't flyin here.
Now Rainmaker don't play the website game with smart guys like you. So, you can look it up yourself. But, the FDA groups people by 3 main races. Asian, Black, and Caucasian.

It's pathetic that White Pussies have allowed these Cultural Marxists and their Political correct thought control, to be taken to such extremes that Race-Specific Drugs (which could help millions of people around the world) now get blocked by morons who are too fucking brainwashed to see the truth that's right in front of their eyes. They are either a) willfully ignorant fools, or b) shills. Personally Rainmaker thinks most of them know that they are full of shit. But, even though you pissed the bed on this one, You still my favorite Yardie!

Mjölnir
07-21-2016, 04:28 PM
The fact is that the FDA tests for drug response based on a variety of factors including race and genetic factors . To pretend they don't ain't flyin here.
Now Rainmaker don't play the website game with smart guys like you. So, you can look it up yourself. But, the FDA groups people by 3 main races. Asian, Black, and Caucasian.

This part is true, my daughter is Asian (born in China to -- presumably Chinese birth parents). Her doctors here have informed us how there are certain drugs that they modify the does for on her because they have stronger or weaker effects on her because of her racial demographic.

Rainmaker
07-21-2016, 05:08 PM
Right on cue! Thanks dude.

Obvious troll is obvious.

You asked for it. You got it.

I'd be willing to bet that it was an accidental discharge, since he actually hit the target. Most cops I've shot with couldn't hit the broad side of a barn.

Blacks are their own worst problem. Just last weekend....

5 Killed, 42 Wounded In Chicago Weekend Gun Violence
July 17, 2016 4:40 PM

http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2016/07/17/weekend-gun-violence-chicago-shootings-crime/


Not one White shooter. And Every weekend is like this in these Black-Run, Black Majority Cities all over America. So, As far as I'm concerned it's not a White problem.

But, if you want be a crusader for #Blacklivesmatter and throw the cops and your own race under the bus, to get you some skreet cred with these fuck faced idiots. Be my guest. But, you can stick that PC "we're all equally at fault" bullshit right up your trans-hole. Rainmaker out//

Rusty Jones
07-21-2016, 05:16 PM
Mjollnir... after all the shit Rainmaker has been saying lately, why is he still here?

WILDJOKER5
07-21-2016, 05:21 PM
Mjollnir... after all the shit Rainmaker has been saying lately, why is he still here?

Hate the facts he is presenting huh? Reality shouldn't be grounds to ban anyone.

Mjölnir
07-21-2016, 05:38 PM
Mjollnir... after all the shit Rainmaker has been saying lately, why is he still here?

Well ...

I have only had one complaint on him recently which he received a warning about.

Don't take this as a personal endorsement for a lot of what he says, I don't share the majority of his views (no offense Rainmaker), but I am trying not to stifle anyone's point here. The vast majority of what we now 'discuss' on MTF has nothing to do with the military and if we are going to talk about race relations, politics, religion etc. it is going to be a heated discussion and you are going to get things like ... as RM said ... "RM don't like darkies"; which is offensive ... but so is (IMO) saying that "middle class whites" (of which I am one) give a shit about lower class whites.

Most everyone here long ago gave up having conversations and now nearly any topic (unless it is something totally benign) is a series personalities talking past each other. If he was the one guy being offensive in an otherwise civil discussion, that would be different ... he isn't.

Rainmaker
07-21-2016, 06:16 PM
Mjollnir... after all the shit Rainmaker has been saying lately, why is he still here?

You start out with coming on here legitimizing the murder of police officers (by saying they brought it on themselves) and then you want to publically whine to the moderator and ask him to censure me, because you don't like the tone of the discussion . Your pathetic attempts at the curbing of my Free Speech is itself proof to everyone here that I am largely correct in my opinion.

sandsjames
07-21-2016, 06:20 PM
Mjollnir... after all the shit Rainmaker has been saying lately, why is he still here?

Because, as always, RM is the one person on here allowed to spout whatever he wants without repercussion. It's like the creepy old guy that's smackin' girls on the ass. If it's a normal person, the guy would be called a pervert and hauled off but, because it's an old guy who always does it, it's "cute".

RM has desensitized the mods to his blatant racist comments.

Rusty Jones
07-21-2016, 06:21 PM
You start out with coming on here legitimizing the murder of police officers (by saying they brought it on themselves) and then you want to publically whine to the moderator and ask him to censure me, because you don't like the tone of the discussion . Your pathetic attempts at the curbing of my Free Speech is itself proof to everyone here that I am largely correct in my opinion.

I just get sick and tired of arguing with possible card carrying Neo Nazis. Please point a loaded gun to your head and pull the trigger, you worthless piece of shit.

sandsjames
07-21-2016, 06:22 PM
Well ...

I have only had one complaint on him recently which he received a warning about.

Don't take this as a personal endorsement for a lot of what he says, I don't share the majority of his views (no offense Rainmaker), but I am trying not to stifle anyone's point here. The vast majority of what we now 'discuss' on MTF has nothing to do with the military and if we are going to talk about race relations, politics, religion etc. it is going to be a heated discussion and you are going to get things like ... as RM said ... "RM don't like darkies"; which is offensive ... but so is (IMO) saying that "middle class whites" (of which I am one) give a shit about lower class whites.

Most everyone here long ago gave up having conversations and now nearly any topic (unless it is something totally benign) is a series personalities talking past each other. If he was the one guy being offensive in an otherwise civil discussion, that would be different ... he isn't.

It's not the point of view, it's the terms used to describe those points of view.

Rusty Jones
07-21-2016, 06:38 PM
It's not the point of view, it's the terms used to describe those points of view.

Or not just that. Sure, I said middle class whites don't care about poor whites... but let's not forget about when WJ5 actually came in and confirmed it. In fact, my signature was cut from quote where confirmed it.

Mjollnir, don't forget that SJ offers his views on blacks as well, as well as what he perceives the community to be doing right and doing wrong. In fact, SJ even responded to what I said by saying that middle class blacks aren't as hard on their poor as they should be, and I even agreed that there is such a thing as a "healthy" level of classism.

SJ and I present it in a way that's conducive to dialogue.

RM comes in here saying how he hates darkies, and how there's scientific evidence of blacks being less intelligent, etc, etc. There's a HUGE difference.

Rainmaker
07-21-2016, 06:39 PM
Please point a loaded gun to your head and pull the trigger, you worthless piece of shit.

If I shoot myself, will you blame it on the cops?

Rusty Jones
07-21-2016, 06:46 PM
If I shoot myself, will you blame it on the cops?

If you want to protect your buddies at the local PD, then take a shot of Clorox instead. I don't care how you do it. Please die.

Rainmaker
07-21-2016, 06:53 PM
RM has desensitized the mods to his blatant racist comments.



It's not the point of view, it's the terms used to describe those points of view.

Uh Oh...Looks like We're gonna need some more safe spaces Commander. Sandsjames has been triggered by a micro-aggression!

sandsjames
07-21-2016, 07:05 PM
Uh Oh...Looks like We're gonna need some more safe spaces Commander. Sandsjames has been triggered by a micro-aggression!

You are the example of why things will never get fixed. There is no empathy, no willingness to share responsibility, no thoughts that compromise is necessary in that feeble little mind of yours. You are to the cops and to whites what the cop killers are to BLM. You are the example that gives the "other side" their argument. You are a self-fulfilling prophecy. You rail against blacks who act a certain way and complain about certain things yet you, and people like you, are the reason that they act and complain as they do.

Rainmaker
07-21-2016, 07:39 PM
You are to the cops and to whites what the cop killers are to BLM. You are the example that gives the "other side" their argument. You are a self-fulfilling prophecy. You rail against blacks who act a certain way and complain about certain things yetyou, and people like you, are the reason that they act and complain as they do.

Wrong. It's the self-righteous hypocrites who betray blacks and rob them of their moral agency, by saying they're not really responsible for their own actions and it's all whitey's fault.

Asshole Liberals have been doing this shit for years exploiting and destroying the black family unit, by supporting welfare state policies that make fatherhood optional and single motherhood affordable. They are a fucking cancer, and the worst kind of enemy to the very people they claim to care so much about and to my race of people as well, by supporting state sanctioned discrimination against whites to guarantee equality of outcomes, in some perverted concept of "fairness". Now Get thee behind me, Satan.

Rainmaker
07-21-2016, 07:47 PM
I don't care how you do it. Please die.

Well, you can wish in one hand & shit in the other and see which one gets filled up first.

sandsjames
07-21-2016, 07:59 PM
Wrong. It's the self-righteous hypocrites who betray blacks and rob them of their moral agency, by saying they're not really responsible for their own actions and it's all whitey's fault.

Asshole Liberals have been doing this shit for years exploiting and destroying the black family unit, by supporting welfare state policies that make fatherhood optional and single motherhood affordable. They are a fucking cancer, and the worst kind of enemy to the very people they claim to care so much about and to my race of people as well, by supporting state sanctioned discrimination against whites to guarantee equality of outcomes, in some perverted concept of "fairness". Now Get thee behind me, Satan.

It's not all whitey's fault but we do share in the responsibility. I'm not a supporter of "fairness" of outcome but I am a supporter of "fairness" of opportunity which, on a large scale, doesn't exist...not because of race, but because of circumstance.

Now, the best thing that you could do to make your life better so you aren't forced to live around the people you despise is to create a situation that allows them to improve. Let's be honest, though, you don't want that to happen. You want someone to spit on, someone to blame, someone to turn your nose up at.

Rainmaker
07-21-2016, 08:42 PM
It's not all whitey's fault but we do share in the responsibility.

Ok, Have fun wallowing in your white guilt.

You can also do your "share" by going to the go fund me page of Ms. Ashleigh Shackleford "The free-figured BLM community organizer and world renowned author of "Fuck You, Pay Me: Reparations for Fat Black Bitches and Everything We Provide" and making a small tax deductible donation.





Let's be honest, though, you don't want that to happen. You want someone to spit on, someone to blame, someone to turn your nose up at.
I'm bored with this thread now and so I'll give you the last word (like usual).... But, before I go. I want to say that I sincerely believe you are suffering from narcissistic personality disorder and a deep-seated inferiority complex. I know you're retired and I want you to know that Help Is Available- through your health insurance plan. Good luck.

sandsjames
07-21-2016, 08:56 PM
Ok, Have fun wallowing in your white guilt. No white guilt. Just an acknowledgement that all parties share blame for what the country is dealing with right now.


You can also do your "share" by going to the go fund me page of Ms. Ashleigh Shackleford "The free-figured BLM community organizer and world renowned author of "Fuck You, Pay Me: Reparations for Fat Black Bitches and Everything We Provide" and making a small tax deductible donation. I don't know who this person is...don't know why you'd assume I'd give money to them.




I'm bored with this thread now and so I'll give you the last word (like usual).... But, before I go. I want to say that I sincerely believe you are suffering from narcissistic personality disorder and a deep-seated inferiority complex. I know you're retired and I want you to know that Help Is Available- through your health insurance plan. Good luck.Narcissistic AND inferiority? Is that possible? I sincerely believe that you are suffering from a sociopathic disorder as you are unable to feel empathy for anything or anyone and that you wouldn't bat an eyelash if blacks/jews/muslims (or Moslems, as you call them because you're a traditionalist and don't want to get away from what you were taught 35 years ago) and anyone else that wouldn't qualify for the KKK were eradicated.

garhkal
07-21-2016, 08:59 PM
http://on.ktla.com/NX3nJ

Ok...defend these cops. Tell me how we don't know what happened off camera. Convince yourselves.

I can't. There's nothing to defend there..


Funny, no one has ever died due to the TEA party and they have never been nationally organized. They actually leave places cleaner than when they arrived. Maybe its a difference in the ideology the make up each "grass root" movement? BLM, talks about race, entitlement, violence, death of cops and whites, anti-American, and is hailed as trying to bring equality and is considered by the MSM as a "peaceful" organization. The TEA party has nothing to do with race, wants smaller government, less taxes, more freedoms, never talks about race, but the MSM calls it dangerous, racist, and the left has called it "domestic terrorist group". Funny this is the 2nd time the left has tried to have a grassroots movement and just like OWS, its violent, full of criminals, and entitlement minded thugs. I'd say because socialist and leftist teach you to be greedy and immature.

Very true Joker. The lame stream media seemed to have a field day during the height of the Tea party, calling them right wing nuts and the like. Yet seems to faun over BLM as if they can never do anything wrong.


I just get sick and tired of arguing with possible card carrying Neo Nazis. Please point a loaded gun to your head and pull the trigger, you worthless piece of shit.

You ask why someone hasn't been banned for what they say, then come out with this??

Mjölnir
07-21-2016, 09:10 PM
I just get sick and tired of arguing with possible card carrying Neo Nazis. Please point a loaded gun to your head and pull the trigger, you worthless piece of shit.

Again, if Rainmaker was the only one being offensive in an otherwise civil conversation, warning and banning would be pretty clear cut.

I think this thread has pretty much run its course.