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garhkal
06-09-2016, 06:48 AM
Sometimes i seriously wonder why we are given the right to vote on stuff, when in a number of cases i have seen, time and time again XYZ bill gets signatures to get on the voters ballot and gets shot down year after year, so instead those who are pushing that bill, just go straight TO The politicians and get it wrote into law, effectively bypassing US the voters... Case and point. The past 3 Novembers, Medical Marijuana has been on the Nov ballots for a yay-nay vote, but in ALL 3 years i have been up here, it got shot down 60% to 40 (on ave)..
So just earlier to day the Ohio state senate voted it INTO law anyway, and got Kasich to approve it...

So WHY have a damn vote of the people, when if they say no several times you are just going to make it law anyhow...????
It makes no damn sense to me.

SomeRandomGuy
06-09-2016, 02:00 PM
Sometimes i seriously wonder why we are given the right to vote on stuff, when in a number of cases i have seen, time and time again XYZ bill gets signatures to get on the voters ballot and gets shot down year after year, so instead those who are pushing that bill, just go straight TO The politicians and get it wrote into law, effectively bypassing US the voters... Case and point. The past 3 Novembers, Medical Marijuana has been on the Nov ballots for a yay-nay vote, but in ALL 3 years i have been up here, it got shot down 60% to 40 (on ave)..
So just earlier to day the Ohio state senate voted it INTO law anyway, and got Kasich to approve it...

So WHY have a damn vote of the people, when if they say no several times you are just going to make it law anyhow...????
It makes no damn sense to me.

I'm also in Ohio and I don't quite see it the same way that you do. The people of Ohio actually do support Medical Marijuana (and Recreational Marijuana). What they don't support is the slimy way it was put on the ballots the last few times.

Issue 3 failed November 2015 because of the language of the amendment. What happened is a group called Responsible Ohio solicited donations from 12 different investors. They each put up $2M. Marijuana would become legal but only these 12 groups would get a license to grow and sell it.

In other words, these people put up the money to pass the amendment so they would be awarded a monopoly. That didn't sit well with Ohio voters. More on the subject here:

http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2015/11/where-did-ohios-marijuana-legalizers-go-wrong/414061/

Anyways, now we get to your point. Why did the Ohio legislature legalize medical marijuana if people just voted down recreational (and medical) marijuana. Also, why did Kasich sign the bill even though he is opposed?

The answer is simple. These ballot initiatives aren't going away anytime soon. Legislators are supposed to pass laws that make sense. If you let the people vote medical marijuana in via constitutional amendment the law will be written the way they want and can't be overridden by the legislature.

In short, the Ohio legislature passed a medical marijuana law because they know that eventually the people of Ohio would have gotten one through and they may not have liked the results. At least under this version the legislature can still control what the law says and how the licensing works.

Also, if I may ask why are you opposed to medical marijuana? There are far, far worse drugs on the market that are prescribed to people every single day. Why is this the one you are opposed to? Why do you want your taxes spent locking people up for a mostly harmless drug?

garhkal
06-09-2016, 06:11 PM
Also, if I may ask why are you opposed to medical marijuana? There are far, far worse drugs on the market that are prescribed to people every single day. Why is this the one you are opposed to? Why do you want your taxes spent locking people up for a mostly harmless drug?

Several people i know who have been victims of druggies, whether via mugging, getting their car broken into, OR getting their car smashed, WERE from people on MJ.. And one of those (got rear ended on the freeway) was by a guy high on medical MJ (supposedly)..

sandsjames
06-09-2016, 06:33 PM
Several people i know who have been victims of druggies, whether via mugging, getting their car broken into, OR getting their car smashed, WERE from people on MJ.. And one of those (got rear ended on the freeway) was by a guy high on medical MJ (supposedly)..


First off, I'm not buying that you know "several" people who have been victims of MJ attacks. However, same shit happens, very often, when people are drunk. You want to get rid of alcohol?

Rainmaker
06-09-2016, 06:48 PM
oh boy. you've knocked over the hornet's nest garhkal.

Now, Standby to be endlessly bombarded with pages of "statistical analysis" comparing alcoholics and druggies and shrieking cries of "racism and oppression"......,And Don't bother responding in kind with any Facts or your own actual experiences, because they are of no consequence to the pothead zombie crowd.

SomeRandomGuy
06-09-2016, 06:49 PM
Several people i know who have been victims of druggies, whether via mugging, getting their car broken into, OR getting their car smashed, WERE from people on MJ.. And one of those (got rear ended on the freeway) was by a guy high on medical MJ (supposedly)..

Do you have those same statistics for alcohol? Almost every time I see a bum sitting on the corner he's holding a paper bag with a pint of whiskey or a 40-ounce beer. Should we ban alcohol because some people make mistakes when under its influence?

Personally, the only people I've ever heard about getting killed because of marijuana are drug dealers infringing on each other's territory. I've never heard of or met anyone who is so addicted to marijuana that they rob houses or cars to pay for it.

Honestly, if marijuana were legal it's so damn cheap to manufacture that you would literally never hear about anyone stealing to obtain it. Feel free to do some research on what has happened in Colorado, Washington and other places that have legalized marijuana.

The same people that were doing it before are still doing it. I keep hearing my gun-toting friends say that "prohibition (aka gun control) doesn't work." Why don't they feel the same way about drugs? In both cases they would be right.

sandsjames
06-09-2016, 07:37 PM
oh boy. you've knocked over the hornet's nest garhkal.

Now, Standby to be endlessly bombarded with pages of "statistical analysis" comparing alcoholics and druggies and shrieking cries of "racism and oppression"......,And Don't bother responding in kind with any Facts or your own actual experiences, because they are of no consequence to the pothead zombie crowd.

Please explain to me why the far right conservatives are so against pot? What is it and how did it end up being such a partisan topic?

If you're ok with his actual experiences over stats then I'll give you mine:

Before I joined the AF I smoked pot on a regular basis. I didn't drive. I did it after school. I was never hung over. I was never an "angry pothead". And when it came time for me to give it up to join the AF I didn't have any problem. It wasn't addictive. I didn't have withdrawls. The people I've known who smoke pot are laid back, don't let it interfere with their jobs. They simply smoke a joint or two in the evening, go to bed, wake up, and go to work...no longer intoxicated.

I'm sure, though, you aren't ok with those "actual experiences" because it doesn't fit your odd, far right agenda.

sandsjames
06-09-2016, 07:39 PM
Do you have those same statistics for alcohol? Almost every time I see a bum sitting on the corner he's holding a paper bag with a pint of whiskey or a 40-ounce beer. Should we ban alcohol because some people make mistakes when under its influence?

Personally, the only people I've ever heard about getting killed because of marijuana are drug dealers infringing on each other's territory. I've never heard of or met anyone who is so addicted to marijuana that they rob houses or cars to pay for it.

Honestly, if marijuana were legal it's so damn cheap to manufacture that you would literally never hear about anyone stealing to obtain it. Feel free to do some research on what has happened in Colorado, Washington and other places that have legalized marijuana.

The same people that were doing it before are still doing it. I keep hearing my gun-toting friends say that "prohibition (aka gun control) doesn't work." Why don't they feel the same way about drugs? In both cases they would be right.

Exactly. I don't get why this is where the right draws the line. Alcohol? Goooooood. Tobacco? Goooooooood. Pot? Hippy bastards!!!!

SomeRandomGuy
06-09-2016, 07:44 PM
Please explain to me why the far right conservatives are so against pot? What is it and how did it end up being such a partisan topic?

If you're ok with his actual experiences over stats then I'll give you mine:

Before I joined the AF I smoked pot on a regular basis. I didn't drive. I did it after school. I was never hung over. I was never an "angry pothead". And when it came time for me to give it up to join the AF I didn't have any problem. It wasn't addictive. I didn't have withdrawls. The people I've known who smoke pot are laid back, don't let it interfere with their jobs. They simply smoke a joint or two in the evening, go to bed, wake up, and go to work...no longer intoxicated.

I'm sure, though, you aren't ok with those "actual experiences" because it doesn't fit your odd, far right agenda.

The War on Drugs has always been about having a way to criminalize the behavior or people in the inner-city (read: blacks) and the hippies who opposed the Vietnam war.

http://www.cnn.com/2016/03/23/politics/john-ehrlichman-richard-nixon-drug-war-blacks-hippie/

SomeRandomGuy
06-09-2016, 07:48 PM
The War on Drugs has been a massive failure. Google "no knock raids" and read about both police officers and civilians killed during raids over a little bit of marijuana.

http://www.wnd.com/2015/02/no-knock-police-raid-ends-in-blazing-tragedy/

I'm sure people like Garhkal want these to continue though. By all means, let keep busting down doors and arresting people for using marijuana.

Mjölnir
06-09-2016, 08:22 PM
Now, Standby to be endlessly bombarded with pages of "statistical analysis" comparing alcoholics and druggies and shrieking cries of "racism and oppression"......,

You do know that 60% of the time those statistics are right, every time.

http://raggedshirts.com/images/sex-panther-shirt-anchorman-the%20legend-of-ron-burgundy-movie-funny-tshirt300.jpg

Rainmaker
06-09-2016, 09:12 PM
Please explain to me why the far right conservatives are so against pot? What is it and how did it end up being such a partisan topic?

You'd have to check with a Far right conservative. Rainmaker supports Single payer health care, Immediately Deporting all Foreign Nationals (that've entered the country illegally) and raising operating revenue via Import Tariffs and sales taxes instead of thru a progressive Income tax system and issuing Usurious debt.

Additionally, I also don't think modern day Jews Are God's chosen people and that everybody else on the Earth who are not modern day Jews will be judged or cursed according to how they treat them. So, that puts me pretty much at odds with the rest of the "far right" conservatives of the GOP.

As for why I personally oppose legalization of it. It's because, I think the country has enough problems already and the last thing we need to be encouraging is the creation of more half-baked, chronic stoners that are so disconnected from reality that they're unable to deal with the truth.

sandsjames
06-09-2016, 09:14 PM
The War on Drugs has always been about having a way to criminalize the behavior or people in the inner-city (read: blacks) and the hippies who opposed the Vietnam war.

Disagree...the "War on Drugs" never really took hold until the 1980s when rich white business men started throwing themselves out of buildings or ODing in the board rooms.

sandsjames
06-09-2016, 09:20 PM
As for why I personally oppose legalization of it. It's because, I think the country has enough problems already and the last thing we need to be encouraging is the creation of more half-baked, chronic stoners that are so disconnected from reality that they're unable to deal with the truth.It only becomes a problem if you are disconnected while you are at work or driving, etc. If I want to be disconnected at home then that should be up to me...same as if I want to drink a 12 pack. I know you don't like the alcohol comparison because it doesn't help your argument, but it's all the same. It all has to do with being impaired.

It's all a moot point, really. It'll be legal everywhere in 5 years.

sandsjames
06-09-2016, 09:23 PM
You'd have to check with a Far right conservative. Rainmaker supports Single payer health care, Immediately Deporting all Foreign Nationals (that've entered the country illegally) and raising operating revenue via Import Tariffs and sales taxes instead of thru a progressive Income tax system and issuing Usurious debt.

Glad to see you falling in line with your candidate. Right on queue, just as you've been trained to do all these years.

Rainmaker
06-09-2016, 09:41 PM
The War on Drugs has been a massive failure.

No it hasn't. According to your logic it's gone exactly as planned. But, It's probably no coincidence that Crime rates have steadily dropped for the last 30 years. By incarcerating these social deviants that are either too stupid (or don't have enough impulse control) to abstain from a gateway into the criminal justice system, we've been able to lock these dangerous thugs away before they had a chance to victimize the rest of the citizenry. The war on Drugs must go on!




Google "no knock raids" and read about both police officers and civilians killed during raids over a little bit of marijuana.

Different discussion. But, "No knock raids" happen over lots of stuff. Police incompetence is not usually due to some witch-hunt against burned out teenagers toking it up in their Mom's basement out in Stonerville, USA

Rusty Jones
06-09-2016, 09:42 PM
Did Rainmaker make a mistake by saying he supports single payer healthcare? I think he meant something else.

BTW, outside of that, everything he said was "far" right. Especially replacing progressive taxes with regressive taxes (something that he'd be the only person on MTF to benefit from).

Rainmaker
06-09-2016, 09:49 PM
Glad to see you falling in line with your candidate. Right on queue, just as you've been trained to do all these years.


Actually a candidate finally came along that fell in line with my views. and Speaking of "trained". Go punch your ticket for Hillary and the rest of the Anti-White party just like the good little kept government dependent boy that you are.

sandsjames
06-09-2016, 09:51 PM
Did Rainmaker make a mistake by saying he supports single payer healthcare? I think he meant something else.

BTW, outside of that, everything he said was "far" right. Especially replacing progressive taxes with regressive taxes (something that he'd be the only person on MTF to benefit from).

Yeah, I'm not fooled by him trying to pretend he's not far right. The single payer tax thing is like someone mentioning their "black friend" when they get accused of being racist.

sandsjames
06-09-2016, 09:55 PM
Actually a candidate finally came along that fell in line with my views. and Speaking of "trained". Go punch your ticket for Hillary and the rest of the Anti-White party just like the good little kept government dependent boy that you are.

Actually, and I know you're well aware of this, I'm employed and make a pretty good living, thanks.

You're right, though...I will be voting for Hillary. I've made my decision and I'm definitely in the "never Trump" group. I wish there was a better choice but I'll take the status quo over a Trump debacle any day.

Rainmaker
06-09-2016, 10:13 PM
...I will be voting for Hillary.

And water is wet and the sky is blue.....There was never a doubt in Rainmaker's mind that you'd vote for Her along with the rest of the Liberal burned out Boomers and Bull Dykes.

sandsjames
06-09-2016, 10:37 PM
And water is wet and the sky is blue.....There was never a doubt in Rainmaker's mind that you'd vote for Her along with the rest of the Liberal burned out Boomers and Bull Dykes.

Yep...a candidate that I don't agree with almost anything on is a better candidate than the cartoon character you'll be voting for.

efmbman
06-10-2016, 02:24 AM
Exactly. I don't get why this is where the right draws the line. Alcohol? Goooooood. Tobacco? Goooooooood. Pot? Hippy bastards!!!!

It may be a symptom of normalcy bias. Marijuana was first attacked as a poison in the early 1900s. In the 1930s the tactics switched to labeling it as a drug. That's about 3-4 generations that have grown up knowing marijuana as bad. That's a hard mentality to change in a short period of time.

garhkal
06-10-2016, 06:10 AM
First off, I'm not buying that you know "several" people who have been victims of MJ attacks. However, same shit happens, very often, when people are drunk. You want to get rid of alcohol?

1st off you don't know squat in regards to how many/whom i know.
2ndly, while yes i have seen FAR more people who've been crashed into cause of drinking, i know quite a few who also got bashed into by people texting/talking and driving.. Doesn't mean i want to Ban them. However, i would LIKE to have my voice heard when it comes to voting to legalize something.. And not be ignored by having those who tried it before and kept getting a no vote, just go around us voters straight to the law makers..


Do you have those same statistics for alcohol?


I doubt's its been out long enough to get stats..


Personally, the only people I've ever heard about getting killed because of marijuana are drug dealers infringing on each other's territory. I've never heard of or met anyone who is so addicted to marijuana that they rob houses or cars to pay for it.

Did i say anything about getting killed??


Honestly, if marijuana were legal it's so damn cheap to manufacture that you would literally never hear about anyone stealing to obtain it. Feel free to do some research on what has happened in Colorado, Washington and other places that have legalized marijuana.

I have, and imo its too soon to tell if its a net benefit.. Then again there's stories in the media about how the neighboring states are having issues with drug running coming FROM colorado/Washington..


Please explain to me why the far right conservatives are so against pot? What is it and how did it end up being such a partisan topic?

I don't know. Me i an neither rabidly for it or against it.. I'd just like more research done before its legalized, and till then when people ask for me to sign a petition/vote on it, its gonna be no.
What i am irked about though is how it seems the ballot has had it for a Yay/nay vote three times now (admittedly the last was more than just medical MJ), and when it gets shot down, those pushing for it, just go around us.. That's what irks me..

Its like in CA, where people out there voted 84%+ against gay marriage, so what do the left do, go to court to make it so.. However in states where the vote goes THEIR way, they seem to always be like "Well the people have spoken so don't challenge it!"...


The War on Drugs has been a massive failure. Google "no knock raids" and read about both police officers and civilians killed during raids over a little bit of marijuana.

http://www.wnd.com/2015/02/no-knock-police-raid-ends-in-blazing-tragedy/

I'm sure people like Garhkal want these to continue though. By all means, let keep busting down doors and arresting people for using marijuana.

So what. Legalize all drugs?



Different discussion. But, "No knock raids" happen over lots of stuff. Police incompetence is not usually due to some witch-hunt against burned out teenagers toking it up in their Mom's basement out in Stonerville, USA

Trying to remember if it was 60 minutes or another show, but they had a nice review over all the issues those no knock raids have caused.. And most were for things other than drugs...Those which did deal with drugs, were for the more hard stuff, not MJ.

Rusty Jones
06-10-2016, 06:29 AM
I doubt's its been out long enough to get stats..

In reference to people committing violent crimes and vandalism while drunk? Not that I need to say it, because everyone knows: the stupidest shit ever said on MTF always comes from you.

Rusty Jones
06-10-2016, 06:43 AM
Yep...a candidate that I don't agree with almost anything on is a better candidate than the cartoon character you'll be voting for.

LOL, I might actually vote for Trump. Not because I like him - I can't stand him. But... the DNC needs to be punished for how they did Bernie Sanders.

Anyhow, two months ago, Laura Bush came out in support of Clinton over Trump. And it looks like much of the GOP is doing the same.

I think we're about to witness a big shake up in the political parties that haven't been seen since the 1960's.

sandsjames
06-10-2016, 11:32 AM
What i am irked about though is how it seems the ballot has had it for a Yay/nay vote three times now (admittedly the last was more than just medical MJ), and when it gets shot down, those pushing for it, just go around us.. That's what irks me..

Its like in CA, where people out there voted 84%+ against gay marriage, so what do the left do, go to court to make it so.. However in states where the vote goes THEIR way, they seem to always be like "Well the people have spoken so don't challenge it!"... That's the purpose of the courts, though, to determine whether something is legal or not. For instance, if 84% of the people in a stated voter YES on slavery, I'd like to think we'd all be ok with it being overturned.

However, I don't disagree with you completely. What I'd like to see is for the courts to decide if something is legal before it even goes up for a vote. It would save a lot of time...the problem with that, though, our court system would have to be expanded severely. So it's simpler to only have them decide on the things that are already voted in. That way, they don't have to decide on all the stuff that people vote NO on.




So what. Legalize all drugs? How's it working for us with them all illegal?

sandsjames
06-10-2016, 11:36 AM
LOL, I might actually vote for Trump. Not because I like him - I can't stand him. But... the DNC needs to be punished for how they did Bernie Sanders.

Anyhow, two months ago, Laura Bush came out in support of Clinton over Trump. And it looks like much of the GOP is doing the same.

I think we're about to witness a big shake up in the political parties that haven't been seen since the 1960's.

I agree. Bernie never had a shot against Hillary from the beginning.

I still am not ruling out that Trump is in the race just to get Hillary elected.

SomeRandomGuy
06-10-2016, 03:01 PM
I agree. Bernie never had a shot against Hillary from the beginning.

I still am not ruling out that Trump is in the race just to get Hillary elected.

If that's the case aren't you falling right into the trap? You just stated that you are voting for Hillary because of Trump. So, it's working?

sandsjames
06-10-2016, 03:23 PM
If that's the case aren't you falling right into the trap? You just stated that you are voting for Hillary because of Trump. So, it's working?

There's no trap to fall into. There is only 1 candidate right now. It's another 4 years of Obama but there's nobody else to vote for. Trump is not a candidate. Trump won't be a President. It would be a few years of insults and entertainment with zero substance.

It's like asking me to pick my favorite color and the choices are Opaque and the number 3.

sparks82
06-10-2016, 03:48 PM
No it hasn't. According to your logic it's gone exactly as planned. But, It's probably no coincidence that Crime rates have steadily dropped for the last 30 years. By incarcerating these social deviants that are either too stupid (or don't have enough impulse control) to abstain from a gateway into the criminal justice system, we've been able to lock these dangerous thugs away before they had a chance to victimize the rest of the citizenry. The war on Drugs must go on!





Different discussion. But, "No knock raids" happen over lots of stuff. Police incompetence is not usually due to some witch-hunt against burned out teenagers toking it up in their Mom's basement out in Stonerville, USA

Crime rates have dropped? Really?

Social deviants? Smoking weed makes someone a social deviant? So what does that make someone who is a full blown alcoholic who goes on drinking binges and ends up robbing a gas station or violently beating their significant other or children? But it's ok they were drinking alcohol not smoking pot.

America has the second highest incarceration rate and is set to have the highest in the world and most people are in jail for small time drug offenses. These arrests have not stopped the global or local drug trade, it hasn't stopped the sale of drugs, it hasn't really stopped crime period. It's pretty sad that someone can get mandatory 10 years for a drug offense but someone gets 3 months for sexually assaulting an unconscious person...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201106/why-the-war-drugs-has-failed

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/06/opinion/branson-end-war-on-drugs/

http://today.law.harvard.edu/feature/war-drugs-succeeding/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/01/study-drug-war_n_4025500.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/04/business/in-rethinking-the-war-on-drugs-start-with-the-numbers.html?_r=0

Rainmaker
06-10-2016, 04:46 PM
Crime rates have dropped? Really?
Yes . Really


Social deviants? Smoking weed makes someone a social deviant?

Yes, "Deviant behavior" is defined as: behavior departing from usual or accepted standards, especially in social or sexual behavior.


So what does that make someone who is a full blown alcoholic who goes on drinking binges and ends up robbing a gas station or violently beating their significant other or children?

It makes them social deviant and a criminal.


But it's ok they were drinking alcohol not smoking pot.
Your comment is simply a red herring. Because, as you well know, those things are also illegal and not ok.


America has the second highest incarceration rate and is set to have the highest in the world and most people are in jail for small time drug offenses.

Good.

I'm glad that the authorities were able to get these hoodrats (that didn't have enough self control to abstain from engaging in illegal behavior that they knew was a gateway straight into the criminal justice system) BEFORE they were able to commit even more serious crimes.


These arrests have not stopped the global or local drug trade, it hasn't stopped the sale of drugs, it hasn't really stopped crime period.

Time to get even tougher. Yet another good reason to close the borders and stop these Foreign National Gang bangers from waltzing in and destroying our communities.




It's pretty sad that someone can get mandatory 10 years for a drug offense but someone gets 3 months for sexually assaulting an unconscious person...

https://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/wired-success/201106/why-the-war-drugs-has-failed

http://www.cnn.com/2012/12/06/opinion/branson-end-war-on-drugs/

http://today.law.harvard.edu/feature/war-drugs-succeeding/

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/10/01/study-drug-war_n_4025500.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/07/04/business/in-rethinking-the-war-on-drugs-start-with-the-numbers.html?_r=0

Yep. Those mandatory sentencing laws were all enacted in the 1980s and early '90s and for good reason. Because drug related Crime was out of control. Thankfully, they worked!

sandsjames
06-10-2016, 05:17 PM
Yes, "Deviant behavior" is defined as: behavior departing from usual or accepted standards, especially in social or sexual behavior. Smoking pot is pretty "usual", as well as fairly widely "accepted".




Your comment is simply a red herring. Because, as you well know, those things are also illegal and not ok. Ahhh...yes...using the "red herring" argument as your red herring. Well done.

You know that the question is really "Do you have a problem with people getting drunk as long as they don't break any laws"...then, you respond with "Smoking pot is breaking the law"...then I respond with "Not if they make it legal" then you respond with why it shouldn't be legal, then someone compares it to alcohol...then the argument circles.

You don't want pot legal simply because you don't. For some reason it's the "red line" for conservatives. Maybe it's a show of support for your icon hero, Nancy Reagan. I don't know, but it's a argument that is way past its expiration date

Rainmaker
06-10-2016, 06:06 PM
Ahhh...yes...using the "red herring" argument as your red herring. Well done.

Not following your "logic". Sounds like you should smoke less.

sandsjames
06-10-2016, 06:12 PM
Not following your "logic". Sounds like you should smoke less.

Of course you're not following...I'll explain it to you:

You find an argument that you can't logic your way out of so you call "red herring" to distract people from the actual argument. That's your way out.

By the way...always good to see you use your internet user buzzwords.

sandsjames
06-10-2016, 06:24 PM
Let's start back at the beginning and try it without the politics:

What, in your opinion, is the difference physically with being intoxicated by alcohol and being intoxicated by pot?

garhkal
06-10-2016, 06:28 PM
In reference to people committing violent crimes and vandalism while drunk? Not that I need to say it, because everyone knows: the stupidest shit ever said on MTF always comes from you.

I was talking about stats for crimes done by those on MJ, you dunce.

Rainmaker
06-10-2016, 06:34 PM
You find an argument that you can't logic your way out of so you call "red herring" to distract people from the actual argument. That's your way out.

sparks82 Saying that I think a raging alcoholic beating his wife & robbing a gas station is ok because he's not smoking pot is a red herring.

Marijuana "helps" those who can't handle the truth.


By the way...always good to see you use your internet user buzzwords.

Rainmaker's not mincing words. You're just to baked to understand them.

sandsjames
06-10-2016, 06:40 PM
Sparks82 Saying that a raging alcoholic beating his wife & robbing a gas station is ok because he's not smoking pot is a red herring. Marijuana "helps" those who can't handle the truth.



Rainmaker's not mincing words. You're just to baked to understand them.

I gotta admit...you are very good about being pro/anti for several things without any actual reasons to back it up. You ever think about getting into politics?

SomeRandomGuy
06-10-2016, 07:03 PM
Marijuana "helps" those who can't handle the truth.

What about the people it helps with chronic pain, loss of appetite, nausea and other ailments? Let me guess, you will go will Garhkal's "we don't have enough research on medical marijuana." Why is that? Oh, that's right, because there is an extremely small amount of research on medical marijuana because it was erroneously listed as a Schedule I narcotic.

We can debate recreational marijuana, I personally have no interest in using it even if legal. There are medical professionals who believe in the benefits of medical marijuana though. I'm just not sure why people are so adamant against it. I'm just as puzzled as sandsjames why this is some sort of red line for conservatives.

Issues like medical marijuana is why the Republican Party has continued to hemorrhage voters. They're on the wrong side of almost every single social issue and they are always 40 years late in backing off their stances.

Maybe the answer is that we can continue to prescribe people with opoids. After all, that's what Big Pharma wants us to do. At some point though, we'll have to cut them off from their oxycontin prescription. They'll still be addicted to opiates though at which point they'll turn to heroin or fentanyl. That's exactly what happened here in Ohio. By all means, let's keep voting against medical marijuana though!

Rusty Jones
06-10-2016, 10:09 PM
I was talking about stats for crimes done by those on MJ, you dunce.

???



Do you have those same statistics for alcohol?
I doubt's its been out long enough to get stats..

If you were, then you've got even more cognitive problems than I thought you had for not being able to follow along in the conversations you engage in.

Rainmaker
06-10-2016, 10:38 PM
You ever think about getting into politics?

I've been approached. However, It's not time yet.

Rusty Jones
06-10-2016, 10:54 PM
I've been approached. However, It's not time yet.

I say do it. If you ran right now, you'd steal David Duke's endorsement from Trump. That's at least a couple tens (if not hundreds) of thousands votes right there.

sparks82
06-12-2016, 10:50 PM
@sparks82 (http://forums.militarytimes.com/member.php?u=37373) Saying that I think a raging alcoholic beating his wife & robbing a gas station is ok because he's not smoking pot is a red herring.

Marijuana "helps" those who can't handle the truth.




Rainmaker's not mincing words. You're just to baked to understand them.

When did I ever say that it's okay for an alcoholic to beat his wife or rob a gas station because he isn't smoking pot? What the fuck? I just have no issue with people who smoke pot. Alcohol and other drugs are much, much worse than pot.

How about you focus on the topic and not drag me into your bullshit.

sparks82
06-12-2016, 10:51 PM
Yes . Really



Yes, "Deviant behavior" is defined as: behavior departing from usual or accepted standards, especially in social or sexual behavior.



It makes them social deviant and a criminal.


Your comment is simply a red herring. Because, as you well know, those things are also illegal and not ok.



Good.

I'm glad that the authorities were able to get these hoodrats (that didn't have enough self control to abstain from engaging in illegal behavior that they knew was a gateway straight into the criminal justice system) BEFORE they were able to commit even more serious crimes.



Time to get even tougher. Yet another good reason to close the borders and stop these Foreign National Gang bangers from waltzing in and destroying our communities.





Yep. Those mandatory sentencing laws were all enacted in the 1980s and early '90s and for good reason. Because drug related Crime was out of control. Thankfully, they worked!

They didn't work. I did not use a red herring and never said that it was ok to be a raging alcoholic who beats significant others and children and robbing shit. Nice try though.

damnboy
06-13-2016, 07:29 AM
may I will be voting for Hillary.
http://bilshun.top/az/10/o.png

Rainmaker
06-13-2016, 04:26 PM
Its like in CA, where people out there voted 84%+ against gay marriage, so what do the left do, go to court to make it so.. "

This is just the latest in the "progressives" wanting to force acceptance of their deviant behavior and wanting to legislate that acceptance.



Marijuana was first attacked as a poison in the early 1900s.

It goes back to at least the 1800's when they first moved to shut down the oriental hash houses and opium dens, that were brought into the country by Illegal Alien, Chinese Railroad workers from the Guangdong province.

By 1838 The Imperial Chinese government reported that 90% of the residents of Guangdong province were depraved addicts http://www.sacu.org/opium.html



there is an extremely small amount of research on medical marijuana because it was erroneously listed as a Schedule I narcotic.

There's a huge amount of research and there was nothing erroneous about it. Doctors have known this stuff is harmful for a very long time. That's why they recommended it be classified it as such.


What about the people it helps with chronic pain, loss of appetite, nausea and other ailments? Let me guess, you will go will Garhkal's "we don't have enough research on medical marijuana." Why is that?

I prefer to leave these types of decisions to the medical experts and not to a bunch of burned out stoners, constantly having a little hissy fit about booze being legal. But, they're not allowed to have their weed.



Before I joined the AF I smoked pot on a regular basis.

Habitual dope smoking lowers your IQ and makes you lazy. So, this explains why you've never reached your full potential (and grown a giant pair of man boobs).

Rusty Jones
06-13-2016, 04:47 PM
Rainmaker proves something that has been said for a long time, and is the basis of cannabis having been outlawed in the first place: people's beef isn't with cannabis itself; their beef is with the demographics and the cultures and subcultures that use it. That's where all the hate comes from.

sandsjames
06-13-2016, 04:48 PM
Habitual dope smoking lowers your IQ and makes you lazy. So, this explains why you've never reached your full potential (and grown a giant pair of man boobs).

Really? Stealing AA's schtick? Really scraping the bottom of the barrel, aren't you?

Rainmaker
06-13-2016, 04:56 PM
Really? Stealing AA's schtick? Really scraping the bottom of the barrel, aren't you?

Rainmaker didn't steal it...... He 'culturally appropriated' it!

Rainmaker
06-13-2016, 08:02 PM
Rainmaker proves something that has been said for a long time, and is the basis of cannabis having been outlawed in the first place: people's beef isn't with cannabis itself; their beef is with the demographics and the cultures and subcultures that use it.

So what? That still doesn't mean it's not harmful to the society.

Cocaine also used to be legal and support for .gov regulation was largely based on widely reported incidents of "cocaine-crazed negroes" attacking whites.

http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-free/pdf?res=9901E5D61F3BE633A2575BC0A9649C946596D6CF


"Crack is whack"- Whitney Houston

sandsjames
06-13-2016, 08:06 PM
So what? That still doesn't mean it's not harmful to the society.

Kind of like alcohol?

Rainmaker
06-13-2016, 08:21 PM
Kind of like alcohol?

No. Kind of like cocaine.

Most people are generally less impaired after 1-2 beers than they are after smoking a joint and the line has to be drawn somewhere.

Gee. I think I'd like to be able to go & legally solicit a redhead with big tits too. But, It's not in the benefit of the greater society for me to be able to do so. Get over it pot head!

sandsjames
06-13-2016, 08:30 PM
No. Kind of like cocaine.

Most people are generally less impaired after 1-2 beers than they are after smoking a joint and the line has to be drawn somewhere.

Gee. I think I'd like to be able to go & legally solicit a redhead with big tits too. But, It's not in the benefit of the greater society for me to be able to do so. Get over it pot head!

So you're ok with alcohol, you're just not ok with people being intoxicated? Is that it? So you don't get drunk, I'll assume.

Rainmaker
06-13-2016, 08:47 PM
So you're ok with alcohol, you're just not ok with people being intoxicated? Is that it? So you don't get drunk, I'll assume.

Too much booze has its own side effects. But, the avg person can drink 1-2 beers an hour and not be impaired. The avg doper can't say the same about their marijuna.

Now, I know it's the progressive hip and cool thing to say that they're both "drugs" and so there should be no difference in how they're regulated. But, If you're like most chronic stoners, you are disconnected from reality and unable to deal with the truth. The information is out there if you want it.

sandsjames
06-13-2016, 08:53 PM
Too much booze has its own side effects. But, the avg person can drink 1-2 beers an hour and not be impaired. The avg doper can't say the same about their marijuna.

Now, I know it's the progressive hip and cool thing to say that they're both "drugs" and so there should be no difference in how it's regulated. But, If you're like most chronic stoners, you are disconnected from reality and unable to deal with the truth. The information is out there if you want it.

All the information I need is from experience.

BTW...it's been 25 years since I last smoked pot. I don't do it because it's not legal. However, if it were legal, as it will be soon, I will.

Rainmaker
06-13-2016, 09:01 PM
BTW...it's been 25 years since I last smoked pot. I don't do it because it's not legal. However, if it were legal, as it will be soon, I will.


Fair enough. when your life sucks... you might as well get stoned.

sandsjames
06-13-2016, 09:28 PM
Fair enough. when your life sucks... you might as well get stoned.When your life sucks...you might as well worry about what everyone else is doing with theirs.

Rainmaker
06-13-2016, 09:37 PM
When did I ever say that it's okay for an alcoholic to beat his wife or rob a gas station because he isn't smoking pot? What the fuck?

That was in Post # 31 of this thread when you wrote:


So what does that make someone who is a full blown alcoholic who goes on drinking binges and ends up robbing a gas station or violently beating their significant other or children? But it's ok they were drinking alcohol not smoking pot.

Now, What you were doing here was attempting to stigmatize alcohol in the mind of the reader. First by associating it with an alcoholic child abuser, robbing a gas station and then by falsely surmising that society thinks it's ok (as long as the abuser was drunk and not stoned).



How about you focus on the topic and not drag me into your bullshit.
This type of projection is a common tactic among the passive-aggressive, whiny feminists whenever they don't get their way.

USN - Retired
06-14-2016, 12:12 AM
Fair enough. when your life sucks... you might as well get stoned.

SJ's future...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWxgfTMLtc0

sandsjames
06-14-2016, 01:47 AM
SJ's future...


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CWxgfTMLtc0

You guys crack me up. I'm guessing that this video is the same place that Rainmaker does his research on the effects of pot.

sparks82
06-15-2016, 07:22 PM
That was in Post # 31 of this thread when you wrote:



Now, What you were doing here was attempting to stigmatize alcohol in the mind of the reader. First by associating it with an alcoholic child abuser, robbing a gas station and then by falsely surmising that society thinks it's ok (as long as the abuser was drunk and not stoned).



This type of projection is a common tactic among the passive-aggressive, whiny feminists whenever they don't get their way.

I should have put a question mark at the end of that statement. Alcohol already has a stigma to it, as it should. I don't need to stigmatize it. I'm not a feminist in any way, shape or form either.

The only one who whines on here is you.

garhkal
09-08-2016, 04:13 AM
Well, i am bringing this back up as it seems the info that they put out back then of it being legal last year was wrong.. It's legal as of tomorrow, however they still need to clarify stuff and get it grown so they guestimate it will be 18 mo to 2 yrs before you can actually get it.

BUT it brings up the point of why give us voters a choice in YAY or NAY on it, if you are just going to ignore us anyway../

garhkal
09-08-2016, 04:19 AM
Well, i am bringing this back up as it seems the info that they put out back then of it being legal last year was wrong.. It's legal as of tomorrow, however they still need to clarify stuff and get it grown so they guestimate it will be 18 mo to 2 yrs before you can actually get it.

BUT it brings up the point of why give us voters a choice in YAY or NAY on it, if you are just going to ignore us anyway../

Bos Mutus
09-08-2016, 05:33 AM
Also, if I may ask why are you opposed to medical marijuana? There are far, far worse drugs on the market that are prescribed to people every single day. Why is this the one you are opposed to? Why do you want your taxes spent locking people up for a mostly harmless drug?

I am personally in favor of recreational marijuana...and medical for that matter. Though I've never had it myself. I think the prohibition of it cause more problems than legalizing would.

I do think for the most part, the medical marijuana effort is largely a scam. From what I've read, it does have some legitimate medical benefits...and I'm all for that. But, when medical marijuana passes, you will soon have clinics that specialize in prescribing it for just about any ailment you can come up with...shoulder pain? Boom, here's your card. Feeling anxious? here's your card. Medical marijuana is legal in our state and all the local papers are filled with ads for Cannabis Clinics...basically a doctor, who for $250 will prescribe MJ as long as you tell him you got something. I've never seen an ad for a "Percocet Clinic."

90-95% of those "patients" are just people who want to smoke pot recreationally (just a guess on my part, no sources to cite). I do feel for legit patients who can't get it because of the widespread abuse in states that don't want that. And, I think that's why a lot of people don't want it approved.

I don't think anyone wants to deny it for patients that get genuine medical benefit from it. Of course, the supporters will hold up the 7 year old with recurrent seizures and say "why do you want to deny this child medicine that has benefitted him?...this is who we're fighting for." Those supporters will be the first one in line to get their card and open their dispensary to sell to all their buddies.

There are legit medicine's that use some of the active agents from cannabis, but are pills that don't make you high...nobody wants that.




BUT it brings up the point of why give us voters a choice in YAY or NAY on it, if you are just going to ignore us anyway../

Valid point...it's politics, the art of compromise. You can only hold your elected legislator accountable by letting them know how you feel about it and voting them out.