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View Full Version : U.S. Navy rebukes Iran after propaganda video shows sailor crying



SeaLawyer
02-11-2016, 04:02 PM
I am nauseated over the Iranian propaganda in the recent incident with our Sailors:

http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2016/02/10/iran-images-riverine-crying-strong-condemnation-navy/80186322/

However, I am infuriated by the actions of this same crew--regardless of orders--based on their oblivious disregard for our code of conduct.

As a former Combat Aircrewman, I know these SWCC folks go through SERE school and may want to take a refresher course on our CODE OF CONDUCT:

Code of Conduct for Members of the United States Armed Forces

I

I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.


II

I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.


III

If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.


IV

If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.


V

When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.


VI

I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

1. I would have taken a bullet before I would have given in to their demands.

2. The gal in which they covered her hair with a burqa should have stood up and said: "Sorry... it's against MY religion."

3. Crying! Really??? Perhaps our Navy has gotten soft under the Obama administration and needs a serious wake-up call.

In short, I'm aggravated with the Iranian interrogation; however, more upset with the demeanor of our supposed "Brave" defending our Star Spangled Banner!!!

sandsjames
02-11-2016, 04:19 PM
I am nauseated over the Iranian propaganda in the recent incident with our Sailors:

http://www.navytimes.com/story/military/2016/02/10/iran-images-riverine-crying-strong-condemnation-navy/80186322/

However, I am infuriated by the actions of this same crew--regardless of orders--based on their oblivious disregard for our code of conduct.

As a former Combat Aircrewman, I know these SWIC folks go through SERE school and may want to take a refresher course on our CODE OF CONDUCT:

Code of Conduct for Members of the United States Armed Forces

I

I am an American, fighting in the forces which guard my country and our way of life. I am prepared to give my life in their defense.


II

I will never surrender of my own free will. If in command, I will never surrender the members of my command while they still have the means to resist.


III

If I am captured I will continue to resist by all means available. I will make every effort to escape and aid others to escape. I will accept neither parole nor special favors from the enemy.


IV

If I become a prisoner of war, I will keep faith with my fellow prisoners. I will give no information or take part in any action which might be harmful to my comrades. If I am senior, I will take command. If not, I will obey the lawful orders of those appointed over me and will back them up in every way.


V

When questioned, should I become a prisoner of war, I am required to give name, rank, service number and date of birth. I will evade answering further questions to the utmost of my ability. I will make no oral or written statements disloyal to my country and its allies or harmful to their cause.


VI

I will never forget that I am an American, fighting for freedom, responsible for my actions, and dedicated to the principles which made my country free. I will trust in my God and in the United States of America.

1. I would have taken a bullet before I would have given in to their demands.

2. The gal in which they covered her hair with a burqa should have stood up and said: "Sorry... it's against MY religion."

3. Crying! Really??? Perhaps our Navy has gotten soft under the Obama administration and needs a serious wake-up call.

In short, I'm aggravated with the Iranian interrogation; however, more upset with the demeanor of our supposed "Brave" defending our Star Spangled Banner!!!

To judge anyone put in that situation is ludicrous. Nobody knows how they will react. In congress with the code of conduct training we receive, we're also taught that you don't have to be confrontation just for the sake of it. Doing what those sailors did, in my opinion, was the only option. What else could they have done? As far as we know, they didn't give away any critical intel (which is the most important thing), nobody on either side did anything to escalate the situation, and all were released safely back to their families.

SeaLawyer
02-11-2016, 04:55 PM
To judge anyone put in that situation is ludicrous. Nobody knows how they will react. In congress with the code of conduct training we receive, we're also taught that you don't have to be confrontation just for the sake of it. Doing what those sailors did, in my opinion, was the only option. What else could they have done? As far as we know, they didn't give away any critical intel (which is the most important thing), nobody on either side did anything to escalate the situation, and all were released safely back to their families.

You're as weak as Obama! The Code of Conduct is non-negotiable... at least when I was in. You're as pathetic as these Sailors they nationally aired!!! OPEN FIRE if they try to capture you!!!!

"... all were released safely back to their families"... with no honor! If one of those crewmembers were a family member of mine, I'd be ashamed!!!

~SeaLawyer (For Rusty Jones... Yes, all my awards were all earned on my Play Station and E-Box. You got me!)

sandsjames
02-11-2016, 05:32 PM
You're as weak as Obama! The Code of Conduct is non-negotiable... at least when I was in. You're as pathetic as these Sailors they nationally aired!!! OPEN FIRE if they try to capture you!!!!

"... all were released safely back to their families"... with no honor! If one of those crewmembers were a family member of mine, I'd be ashamed!!!

~SeaLawyer (Three Air Medals; Two Bronze Stars; Combat Action Ribbon X5)

There was no act of war. There was no gun fire. There was nothing the required being stupid about. You didn't really need to throw in your resume...as impressive as it is, it's irrelevant to the situation of these sailors.

You don't throw a punch when there's no fight and, in this situation, there was no fight.

SeaLawyer
02-11-2016, 06:44 PM
Sure there was! They (Iran) threw a punch and we played dead! I'm disgusted with the Sailors from that incident knowing they could have totally reversed the situation. My resume is irrelevant perhaps but I would never disgrace the USA in the fashion these cowards did!!!

My son is 14 years old and plans on joining the Navy... even HE--at his age-- said he would never do such a thing as to be humiliated the way they were. Perhaps he's genetically brave but at least he has the moral and integral fortitude at his young age to know the difference between bravery and being a coward!!!

UncaRastus
02-11-2016, 06:55 PM
The crews did what they told to do, by the commander aboard the boat. Except crying.

He probably told the one female sailor to cover up, too. Also, he is the one that apologized.

SeaLawyer
02-11-2016, 06:58 PM
The crews did what they told to do, by the commander aboard the boat. Except crying.

He probably told the one female sailor to cover up, too. Also, he is the one that apologized.


AGAIN... COWARDLY!!! If you are sympathizing with them, I suspect--you too--are a Democrat!!!

There's a time and place for everything; however, laying down your pride--if you have any--is not one of them.

Iran has a reason to boast this disgusting incident and I blame the folks such as you for condoning it. SISSY!!!!

Rainmaker
02-11-2016, 07:30 PM
This whole thing stinks to high heaven. From the get go we were told everything from it was dual Mechanical failures, then dual commo failures, then dual GPS failures, Then someone screwed up loading the GPS, then they just plain got lost.

Whether or not they were hacked or it really was the perfect storm of Murphy's law in a Persian Gulf version of the Bermuda triangle, we can't be allowed to know..... But, What's more troubling is that the Obama administration were publicly praising the peace loving, benevolent Ayatollahs for releasing them .....EVEN as the Iranians were already posting propaganda pics of the "capture"!

My guess is that the Sailor in question had to have spoken with his chain of command or (even at the State Dept itself) that told him to go ahead and submit to being used in a propaganda video and gotten himself confused..... It's Either that or They SERIOUSLY need some more training ......

John Paul Jones must be rolling over in his grave!

sandsjames
02-11-2016, 08:00 PM
AGAIN... COWARDLY!!! If you are sympathizing with them, I suspect--you too--are a Democrat!!!

This has to be the greatest thing I've ever heard here...LMFAO!!! You can't make this shit up.

Rainmaker
02-11-2016, 08:20 PM
2. The gal in which they covered her hair with a burqa should have stood up and said: "Sorry... it's against MY religion."



Let's Thank God that's the worst thing that happened to her and she's home safe now. Because, she shouldn't have been there in the first place.

But, I'm honestly surprised that the Pentagon didn't take full advantage of this opportunity to spin some fantasy land Narrative about the lone Super Girl heroically overpowering her evil Jihadi captors and saving the day..... while all the men laid curled up in fetal positions, crying in the corner.

It could be a selling point for putting Chicks in SWCCs

garhkal
02-12-2016, 05:49 AM
This whole thing stinks to high heaven. From the get go we were told everything from it was dual Mechanical failures, then dual commo failures, then dual GPS failures, Then someone fucked up loading the GPS, then they just plain got lost.

Whether or not they were hacked or it really was the perfect storm of Murphy's law in a Persian Gulf version of the Bermuda triangle, we can't be allowed to know..... But, What's more troubling is that the Obama cock gobbling administration were publically praising the peace loving, benevolent Ayatollahs for releasing them .....EVEN as the Iranians were already posting propaganda pics of the "capture"!

My guess is that the Sailor in question had to have spoken with his chain of command or (even at the State Dept itself) that told him to go ahead and submit to being used in a propaganda video and gotten himself confused..... It's Either that or They SERIOUSLY need some more training ......

John Paul Jones must be rolling over in his grave!

I agree, that something smells rotten about this whole incident, and someone high up must have told them to 'stand down' and be used in those propaganda videos.. "Just cause the Iran deal was too important to derail or something like that."

SeaLawyer
02-12-2016, 12:37 PM
This has to be the greatest thing I've ever heard here...LMFAO!!! You can't make this shit up.

Ok... Maybe I went a little overboard on that one. I did get a kick out of your reply though!

Rainmaker
02-12-2016, 03:40 PM
Does anyone know what kind of training these guys go through? Because Anybody, that's even completed a basic level resistance training course knows better than to willingly submit to being used in Propaganda video unless you're under extreme duress.

That's why I think someone (in the state dept or their chain) had to have told them to go ahead with the video apology.

Maybe the Iranians in fact had a gun pointed to someone's head off camera? But, I doubt it because, If so, where in the hell is the Oblamo administration on this? All we've had is a couple of milquetoast objection and no real consequences for them publicly humiliating our Sailors like that.

SeaLawyer
02-12-2016, 03:48 PM
Well said Rainmaker! I agree, there may be more to this than is being released but it sure makes our military look weak!

UncaRastus
02-12-2016, 05:27 PM
OK, that is enough. This has to stop. Now.

SeaLawyer, you have around here enough to know that this kind of trash talking is way beyond the pale.

Rusty,you have been tossed into the ban bin more that once. Chill dude. I know how someone coming into here and starting off, almost from the start, with insults, gets to all of us.

If either of you continue with the attacks, you will be banned.

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UncaRastus
02-12-2016, 05:30 PM
Rusty, see my post above your last one, please.

SeaLawyer
02-12-2016, 05:44 PM
OK, that is enough. This has to stop. Now.

SeaLawyer, you have around here enough to know that this kind of trash talking is way beyond the pale.

Rusty,you have been tossed into the ban bin more that once. Chill dude. I know how someone coming into here and starting off, almost from the start, with insults, gets to all of us.

If either of you continue with the attacks, you will be banned.

Community Guidelines

Disruption

You're welcome to voice your opinion here, and it would be a boring place if you didn't. But if you disagree with a comment that's been made, keep it civil. Posts designed to instigate or disrupt discussions or that contain offensive material may be removed, along with other messages posted in response. Please don't use obscene or offensive language, hate speech or engage in personal attacks of other members. Bashing services on branch-specific forums or any forum is not acceptable within our communities. Posts made with the intent to belittle, harass or otherwise disrupt a community will be removed. Repeated instances of such harassment and disruption may result in a revocation of posting privileges.


Fair enough UncaRastus! As mentioned, this whole thread was just my opinion!

Mjölnir
02-12-2016, 07:09 PM
Does anyone know what kind of training these guys go through? Because Anybody, that's even completed a basic level resistance training course knows better than to willingly submit to being used in Propaganda video unless you're under extreme duress.

That's why I think someone (in the state dept or their chain) had to have told them to go ahead with the video apology.

Maybe the Iranians in fact had a gun pointed to someone's head off camera? But, I doubt it because, If so, where in the hell is the Oblamo administration on this? All we've had is a couple of milquetoast objection and no real consequences for them publicly humiliating our Sailors like that.

Some of the Sailors that were on the craft were Special Warfare Combatant Crewmen (SWCC), meaning they are trained in supporting Naval Special Warfare (SeALs). They are not special operators, SeALs, or some 'special fighting force' type folks. Some of the Sailors were augmentees, so basically a Sailor who was there supporting the Sailors supporting the NSW forces (even less special mission training).

As far as training, contrary to the OP, only some SWCC personnel attend SERE 100 (Code of Conduct A) training, however ... the vast majority do not (75%). That being said, much of SERE 100 was not applicable in this case, there is a course (SERE 220 -- Code of Conduct C) which would have covered the situation these Sailors found themselves in.

SERE 100: Wartime detention
SERE 220: Peace Time detention

The big difference is that in wartime detention, you are expected to get the crap kicked out of you, in peacetime detention you are trained for a situation like this (peacetime detention by a nation that we are not in a shooting war with but have hostile relations). Very few personnel attend SERE 220, most SeALs don't go and it normally applies to crews for special mission aircraft and those types of roles (which is why I got to go).

I don't think it likely that someone instructed the Sailors anything while in detention, the lines of communication were not there.

Unfortunately, this seems to be a situation were we (the US, US Navy specifically) screwed up:

1. We were in Iranian territorial waters; absolutely.
2. The personnel on the craft if anything had SERE 100 vice SERE 220 training. Being familiar with SWCC, it the average is about 25% that get SERE 100 ...

As much as I don't like the optic from the videos, the OIC had very little he could have done:

1. Resist boarders - we were in their territorial waters; for whatever reason ... were were not where we were supposed to be. Getting into a shooting match in that situation only makes the situation worse.

2. Run - As fast as those two boats are, they are not going to outrun small arms or machine gun fire from the (at least) four Iranian boats on site. Even with a 2 to 1 force on force ratio (20 to 10 etc.) If the Iranians killed 1 US Sailor and lost 15, that is a PR victory for them ... bigger than they already had.

3. Start shooting - From a strategic standpoint, resisting when we were on the wrong side of the line on the chart is bad. Fifth Fleet, the Arabian Gulf has a lot of ROE dealing with Iranian territorial waters (you actually go through them when transiting the Strait of Hormuz). NWP 1-14M (Commander's Handbook on the Law of Naval Operations) covers some of this, UNCLOS does too and standing C5F guidance stresses the importance of not escalating a situation unnecessarily in the AOR; once we realized we were in their TTW, would almost anything escalates the situation ... it was a lose - lose for us as soon as we gooned up the navigation.

Mjölnir
02-12-2016, 09:48 PM
Looks like this thread was seriously derailed by some immature back and forth.

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http://images.bidnessetc.com/content/uploads/images/source3/thor_gif_by_bookmaniac2013-d3ghexl-e16e74a63567ecb44ade5c87002bb1d9.gif

Rainmaker
02-13-2016, 01:40 AM
Looks like this thread was seriously derailed by some immature back and forth.

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FONN-0uoTHI

MikeKerriii
02-13-2016, 05:46 PM
You're as weak as Obama! The Code of Conduct is non-negotiable... at least when I was in. You're as pathetic as these Sailors they nationally aired!!! OPEN FIRE if they try to capture you!!!!

"... all were released safely back to their families"... with no honor! If one of those crewmembers were a family member of mine, I'd be ashamed!!!

~SeaLawyer (For Rusty Jones... Yes, all my awards were all earned on my Play Station and E-Box. You got me!)

When you wander in to foreign waters and shoot at the local authorities, that is simply attempted murder or murder depending on your success. . Thinking that the code of contact conduct applies in peacetime with a nation were are not engaged in hostilities with is pretty dammed silly, like applying it to arrest by local police.