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Rusty Jones
01-03-2016, 01:45 PM
So... this isn't going to end very well for them.

People like garhkal want to call BLM "terrorists" because they're watching too much Fox News... but I don't see BLM engaging in armed takeovers of national parks, federal buildings, or other government property.

I've not yet seen any reports about the governor mobilizing the National Guard; but this is definitely a situation that warrants it.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/drama_in_burns_ends_with_quiet.html

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/03/461818657/militia-takes-over-federal-building-following-protest-in-oregon

MikeKerriii
01-03-2016, 06:38 PM
So... this isn't going to end very well for them.

People like garhkal want to call BLM "terrorists" because they're watching too much Fox News... but I don't see BLM engaging in armed takeovers of national parks, federal buildings, or other government property.

I've not yet seen any reports about the governor mobilizing the National Guard; but this is definitely a situation that warrants it.

http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/drama_in_burns_ends_with_quiet.html

http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/01/03/461818657/militia-takes-over-federal-building-following-protest-in-oregon
It is simple, send one federal marshal there to order them to disperse as required by statute, if they refuse call it armed insurrection and then use Federal troops to remove them and then give them a fair trial, followed by a decade so in jail.

I would not call them terrorists though, traitors or unlawful combatants are probably a more accurate descriptions.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/2383

garhkal
01-03-2016, 06:57 PM
People like garhkal want to call BLM "terrorists" because they're watching too much Fox News... but I don't see BLM engaging in armed takeovers of national parks, federal buildings, or other government property.


When have i called BLM terrorists? And while it might not be armed take overs, what else do you consider their 'take overs of freeways' if not taking over government property??

MikeKerriii
01-03-2016, 09:32 PM
When have i called BLM terrorists? And while it might not be armed take overs, what else do you consider their 'take overs of freeways' if not taking over government property??

They leave the freeways and they are not armed while they are temporarily blocking them, Unlike the Militia scum they are not threatening to kill cops.

there is a simple three step fix for this problem

1. Order them to disperse their armed insurrection as required by the US code
2. If that fails use military forces to expel them as authorized by the Constitution
3. Send those smart enough to surrender to Federal forces to trial, bury the ones not smart enough.

Or are you only in favor of enforcing laws against people who are not white?

MikeKerriii
01-04-2016, 03:22 AM
The clowns at the refuge now have a permanent name "y'all qaeda"

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/yall-qaeda-twitter-users-mock-oregon-right-wing-militia-action-and-its-awesome/

To use a conservative cliche, where are all the right wing politicians attacking these thugs?

Since they are not criticizing the thugs they must support these criminals, or so we keep hearing when the criminals are Muslim

garhkal
01-04-2016, 05:13 AM
They leave the freeways and they are not armed while they are temporarily blocking them, Unlike the Militia scum they are not threatening to kill cops.

there is a simple three step fix for this problem

1. Order them to disperse their armed insurrection as required by the US code
2. If that fails use military forces to expel them as authorized by the Constitution
3. Send those smart enough to surrender to Federal forces to trial, bury the ones not smart enough.

Or are you only in favor of enforcing laws against people who are not white?

I am in favor of enforcing the laws period. Whether against whites, blacks or reds with green pokadots.. BUT in many of those BLM incidents, it seems the law is NOT enforced against them (such as protests are not allowed to block highways or main throughfares or when they get to riot stages)...

Mjölnir
01-04-2016, 11:38 AM
They leave the freeways and they are not armed while they are temporarily blocking them, Unlike the Militia scum they are not threatening to kill cops.

They leave the scenes of their protests eventually yes. To be fair though, some of the BLM protesters in MD were armed during their protests.


3. Send those smart enough to surrender to Federal forces to trial, bury the ones not smart enough.

This mentality is what is going wrong. While the protesters in OR are trespassing, I don't think the point of military actions against them (US citizens) is warranted and this type of talk is incredibly disturbing.

Rusty Jones
01-04-2016, 11:43 AM
This mentality is what is going wrong. While the protesters in OR are trespassing, I don't think the point of military actions against them (US citizens) is warranted and this type of talk is incredibly disturbing.

Why not? They called in the National Guard for Ferguson and Baltimore, and I don't recall armed criminals commandeering government property in either place. Why not in this situation?

Mjölnir
01-04-2016, 11:52 AM
Why not? They called in the National Guard for Ferguson and Baltimore, and I don't recall armed criminals commandeering government property in either place. Why not in this situation?

I am not against using the National Guard/military to contain this situation. I think it is one thing to use the National Guard / military to keep the peace ... another thing completely to advocate the killing of our own citizens (be they white, black etc.)

Rusty Jones
01-04-2016, 12:07 PM
I am not against using the National Guard/military to contain this situation. I think it is one thing to use the National Guard / military to keep the peace ... another thing completely to advocate the killing of our own citizens (be they white, black etc.)

Are you for the killing of our own citizens solely if they join ISIS, even if they have no direct involvement in executing a terrorist attack? Because that's something you need to think about when you say that. Remember, this militia group is armed and ready to take on law enforcement or who ever else comes at that.

Mjölnir
01-04-2016, 12:15 PM
Are you for the killing of our own citizens solely if they join ISIS, even if they have no direct involvement in executing a terrorist attack? Because that's something you need to think about when you say that. Remember, this militia group is armed and ready to take on law enforcement or who ever else comes at that.

If a US citizen joins ISIS (an international terrorist organization) then I think they become an appropriate military target. If the militia group opened fire on law enforcement or other people, then deadly force would be appropriate.

However, please please please go back and read the post I replied to: preemptive military force against US citizens (even if they are ordered to leave and do not) is not something I am AT ALL in favor of.

SomeRandomGuy
01-04-2016, 12:35 PM
If a US citizen joins ISIS (an international terrorist organization) then I think they become an appropriate military target. If the militia group opened fire on law enforcement or other people, then deadly force would be appropriate.

However, please please please go back and read the post I replied to: preemptive military force against US citizens (even if they are ordered to leave and do not) is not something I am AT ALL in favor of.

Agreed. It is pretty absurd that people are advocating a military operation against these idiots. I'm not sure of the exact number of people in this terrorist militia or whatever you want to call it. I don't see the comparisons to Ferguson or Baltimore. In those situations life and property were at risk. The police and national guard needed to step in to prevent further destruction.

In this case, a bunch of thugs (idiots?) are occupying a government building. So what? How long can they possibly stay there if we cut them off from food and water? They are already contained. Just cut off the water and power to the building, cut off any food supply and wait them out. There is not a single reason that anyone should die in this situation unless the offenders become violent.

Any comparison to Ferguson or Baltimore is ridiculous. If you want o compare this to something it best equates to the Branch Davidian stand off in Waco Texas. Didn't we learn our lesson in that situation? Just wait them out.

Mjölnir
01-04-2016, 12:57 PM
Agreed. It is pretty absurd that people are advocating a military operation against these idiots. I'm not sure of the exact number of people in this terrorist militia or whatever you want to call it. I don't see the comparisons to Ferguson or Baltimore. In those situations life and property were at risk. The police and national guard needed to step in to prevent further destruction.

In this case, a bunch of thugs (idiots?) are occupying a government building. So what? How long can they possibly stay there if we cut them off from food and water? They are already contained. Just cut off the water and power to the building, cut off any food supply and wait them out. There is not a single reason that anyone should die in this situation unless the offenders become violent.

Any comparison to Ferguson or Baltimore is ridiculous. If you want o compare this to something it best equates to the Branch Davidian stand off in Waco Texas. Didn't we learn our lesson in that situation? Just wait them out.

Concur. The OR Militia group is already contained, and while they are posturing an aggressive stance, they have not engaged anyone; at the point they do I would have no issues with law enforcement defending themselves or bystanders in the immediate area.

I read a little about this in the last few minutes (not much):

1. The father and son from OR (sentenced to prison ... supposed to turn themselves in today - 4 JAN) and their family have asked the Bundy family and their supporters to stay away.
2. The Bundy son, posted something on social media asking for his supports to come to OR and aid in the standoff.
3. So far, it seems the most severe crime they have committed is Federal Trespass (maybe ... to be Federal Trespass the facility must be:


(A) at a secure government facility;
(B) at a nuclear energy facility;
(C) on a vessel or aircraft of the United States;
(D) in a secure area of an airport or a seaport;
(E) at a residence;
(F) at Arlington National Cemetery or a cemetery under the control of the National Cemetery Administration; or
(G) on a computer system used (1) to maintain or operate a critical infrastructure; or (2) by or for a government entity in furtherance of the administration of justice, national defense, or national security.

I am not sure if a wildlife refuge counts as any of those. They have not held anyone against their will (kidnapping), have not harmed anyone yet (assault, battery, attempted or actual murder).

So as a matter of policy, I don't think the US Government should take a stance of preemptive military action against our own citizens who are not a imminent nor clear danger to those around them.

As an aside, the Bundy's are turning into the white version of Al Sharpton. They are going where they have been asked to stay away, raising a bunch of hell with the intent of self promotion, they are interfering with legal due process. As with Sharpton, I can see some of their arguments as having interesting points (government overreach, government intimidation etc.) but their methodology is flawed and not at all constructive.

waveshaper2
01-04-2016, 01:28 PM
Concur. The OR Militia group is already contained, and while they are posturing an aggressive stance, they have not engaged anyone; at the point they do I would have no issues with law enforcement defending themselves or bystanders in the immediate area.

I read a little about this in the last few minutes (not much):

1. The father and son from OR (sentenced to prison ... supposed to turn themselves in today - 4 JAN) and their family have asked the Bundy family and their supporters to stay away.
2. The Bundy son, posted something on social media asking for his supports to come to OR and aid in the standoff.
3. So far, it seems the most severe crime they have committed is Federal Trespass (maybe ... to be Federal Trespass the facility must be:


I am not sure if a wildlife refuge counts as any of those. They have not held anyone against their will (kidnapping), have not harmed anyone yet (assault, battery, attempted or actual murder).

So as a matter of policy, I don't think the US Government should take a stance of preemptive military action against our own citizens who are not a imminent nor clear danger to those around them.

As an aside, the Bundy's are turning into the white version of Al Sharpton. They are going where they have been asked to stay away, raising a bunch of hell with the intent of self promotion, they are interfering with legal due process. As with Sharpton, I can see some of their arguments as having interesting points (government overreach, government intimidation etc.) but their methodology is flawed and not at all constructive.

I think the actions of all the folks/agencies involved in this situation are wrong and foolish. Some examples;
1. Wannabe Freedom Fighters; These fools needlessly antagonize these type events. They, once again, put a black cloud over the issues of gun ownership and Second Amendment rights. These clowns need to better select their causes they support, particularly when they attempt to showcase their zealousness. Maybe the BLM should just give them some land out in the middle of nowhere, then they can have their own little American "Caliphate type" homeland.
2. Feds/BLM; Totally out of control with their regulations, enforcement, and hidden agendas. In the past their overreaction, military type attempts at resolving issues, and thuggish behavior has been despicable. The Feds tend to needlessly escalated these type situations.
3. The Bundy clan is nothing more than a generational bunch of freeloading "Scammers/Scumbags" and they are stealing from the tax payers. I would characterizes them as the equivalent to a modern day version of cattle ranchers "illegally" on the SNAP/EBT program tit.

MikeKerriii
01-04-2016, 01:52 PM
I am not against using the National Guard/military to contain this situation. I think it is one thing to use the National Guard / military to keep the peace ... another thing completely to advocate the killing of our own citizens (be they white, black etc.)Who advocated killing? I said they should be arrested, but since they are armed and have already threatened to murder federal agents, arresting the is likely to involve deaths. Shooting a 12 year old kid with an toy is legal, so shooting an armed criminal with an semiautomatic pistol who is threatening to commit murder is should not be a problem Those resisting with firearms should be met with appropriate force.

You also call this "trespassing' but I think armed insurrection is a better term, and Federal conspiracy laws also would apply. I don't think trespassing normal involves armed breaking and entering and threatening law enforcement personnel. They are clowns but their actions meet both the dictionary and legal definitions of terrorism.

MikeKerriii
01-04-2016, 01:57 PM
If a US citizen joins ISIS (an international terrorist organization) then I think they become an appropriate military target. If the militia group opened fire on law enforcement or other people, then deadly force would be appropriate.

However, please please please go back and read the post I replied to: preemptive military force against US citizens (even if they are ordered to leave and do not) is not something I am AT ALL in favor of.

Is arresting armed insurrectionists really preemptive military force? Without military force how else to you stop the crime in progress and arrest these felons?

Mjölnir
01-04-2016, 02:54 PM
Who advocated killing?


They leave the freeways and they are not armed while they are temporarily blocking them, Unlike the Militia scum they are not threatening to kill cops.

I may have misunderstood what you meant, please explain then.


I said they should be arrested, but since they are armed and have already threatened to murder federal agents, arresting the is likely to involve deaths.

They said that if federal agents moved in on them that they (the agents) would be putting lives in danger. I agree, they are taking a threatening tone, but that is far from legal justification to kill them.


Shooting a 12 year old kid with an toy is legal, so shooting an armed criminal with an semiautomatic pistol who is threatening to commit murder is should not be a problem Those resisting with firearms should be met with appropriate force.

A couple of points about the kid in Cleveland:

1. The Grand Jury chose not to indict the officers. Mainly because of 2 key factors:
-The person who called 911 relayed to the 911 operator that she thought the kid was in fact a kid and that the weapon may be a toy. That was not relayed to the police who responded to the call.
-When the police arrived, the kid immediately reached for the toy tucked in his waistband. Based on the photos of the toy in question, I can see why they thought it was a real weapon. They believed themselves to be in imminent danger.

Mitigating the case in Cleveland, the 12 year old kid was 5 foot 7 inches and almost 200 pounds, far from looking like a 12 year old child.

What makes Cleveland VERY different from this thing in Oregon is that (to date) they have made threats, they have not placed anyone in imminent danger. Once they do, then I would support law enforcement (local, state or federal) defending themselves as they see appropriate.


You also call this "trespassing' but I think armed insurrection is a better term, and Federal conspiracy laws also would apply. I don't think trespassing normal involves armed breaking and entering and threatening law enforcement personnel. They are clowns but their actions meet both the dictionary and legal definitions of terrorism.

Conspiracy laws may apply -- good point. I am not too familiar with them like I am trespass (having stood posts at Camp David and ammunition supply points.)

Based on your arguments, it seems you would have / should have supported the use of deadly force in both Ferguson (when the protesters threw Molotov cocktails at police and National Guard troops, and were carrying weapons) or in Baltimore (where the protesters were using Molotov cocktails and carrying weapons) -- something I would have also been against. Also, based on your stance once the Black Lives Matters protesters blocked a federal interstate (the DC Beltway) and failed to disperse as directed, they were inhibiting with something the Dept. of Homeland Security defines as CIKR (Critical Infrastructure & Key Resources) and should have been handled as you advocate since that is a federal issue. I don't agree with that stance, but that is the road you are going down.

Mjölnir
01-04-2016, 02:56 PM
Is arresting armed insurrectionists really preemptive military force?

Arresting them, no. Killing them if they are not an imminent threat ... yes.


Without military force how else to you stop the crime in progress and arrest these felons?

Based on the weather in eastern Oregon, containing them and waiting a bit may just do it.

Please note, they are not felons until convicted (which I think they will / should be.)

MikeKerriii
01-04-2016, 03:51 PM
I may have misunderstood what you meant, please explain then.



They said that if federal agents moved in on them that they (the agents) would be putting lives in danger. I agree, they are taking a threatening tone, but that is far from legal justification to kill them.



A couple of points about the kid in Cleveland:

1. The Grand Jury chose not to indict the officers. Mainly because of 2 key factors:
-The person who called 911 relayed to the 911 operator that she thought the kid was in fact a kid and that the weapon may be a toy. That was not relayed to the police who responded to the call.
-When the police arrived, the kid immediately reached for the toy tucked in his waistband. Based on the photos of the toy in question, I can see why they thought it was a real weapon. They believed themselves to be in imminent danger.

Mitigating the case in Cleveland, the 12 year old kid was 5 foot 7 inches and almost 200 pounds, far from looking like a 12 year old child.

What makes Cleveland VERY different from this thing in Oregon is that (to date) they have made threats, they have not placed anyone in imminent danger. Once they do, then I would support law enforcement (local, state or federal) defending themselves as they see appropriate.



Conspiracy laws may apply -- good point. I am not too familiar with them like I am trespass (having stood posts at Camp David and ammunition supply points.)

Based on your arguments, it seems you would have / should have supported the use of deadly force in both Ferguson (when the protesters threw Molotov cocktails at police and National Guard troops, and were carrying weapons) or in Baltimore (where the protesters were using Molotov cocktails and carrying weapons) -- something I would have also been against. Also, based on your stance once the Black Lives Matters protesters blocked a federal interstate (the DC Beltway) and failed to disperse as directed, they were inhibiting with something the Dept. of Homeland Security defines as CIKR (Critical Infrastructure & Key Resources) and should have been handled as you advocate since that is a federal issue. I don't agree with that stance, but that is the road you are going down.

US law is pretty clear on what crimes they are committing


18 US code 2384 Seditious conspiracy
If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both.

Rebellion or insurrection

18 US code 2383 Insurrection or Rebellion
Rebellion or insurrection
Whoever incites, sets on foot, assists, or engages in any rebellion or insurrection against the authority of the United States or the laws thereof, or gives aid or comfort thereto, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and shall be incapable of holding any office under the United States.

Section 2389 and 2390 could possibly apply also since they are recruiting other Americans to help, RICO statues could also probably be applied since it is a organized criminal conspiracy. I don't know enough about anti-terrorism laws to tell if any of them apply


I highlighted the relevant passages

If Federal authorities had told the people at Ferguson and Baltimore to disperse it would have been a similar situation for those that were armed. As it is only state laws were involved

If you think the DA in Cleveland played it straight I have a bridge you might be interested in :)

Mjölnir
01-04-2016, 04:36 PM
US law is pretty clear on what crimes they are committing


I highlighted the relevant passages

If Federal authorities had told the people at Ferguson and Baltimore to disperse it would have been a similar situation for those that were armed. As it is only state laws were involved

If you think the DA in Cleveland played it straight I have a bridge you might be interested in :)

Yes, they are clearly violating the law, I think they will and should be convicted ... but until then they are not felons. I disagree with you on preemptive military style action when they have not yet been violent. Differentent sections of the US Code were brought up in another thread that someone you politically support &/or their staff clearly violated but you don't seem too interested in holding them accountable.

In Ferguson and Baltimore it was local & State officials that told protesters to disperse, so you supported local & State officials initiating deadly force once they did not disperse? You did not address the blocking of a federal interstate

Did the Cleveland DA play it straight? Not sure, there is audio of the 911 call and the dispatcher to police that is available, as well as video of the incident ... It seems that it was a crap situation but it is hard to fault the police based on what they knew or didn't know. As in Ferguson, I would expect if the two officers violated the law or civil rights statutes that the adept of Justice would do something ... They have not.. You are either ignoring the wider arguments that don't fit your train of thought or would require accountability for those with whom you politically agree ... which is overtly partisan and only encourages further issues rather than solving them.

MikeKerriii
01-04-2016, 06:02 PM
If a US citizen joins ISIS (an international terrorist organization) then I think they become an appropriate military target. If the militia group opened fire on law enforcement or other people, then deadly force would be appropriate.

However, please please please go back and read the post I replied to: preemptive military force against US citizens (even if they are ordered to leave and do not) is not something I am AT ALL in favor of.

I think they will most likely walk, just as they did at the Bundy ranch. White men are allowed to act like terrorist with quite a bit of immunity. Witness the Fact that the leaders of this revolt have recently been involved in the same thing in the recent past and spent no time in Prison.

They are in armed revolt against the US movement, and have chose to do so while armed armed, Harper's Ferry and the Civil war are adequate precedents for the use of military force against this kind of criminal. Insurrection and rebellion are crimes that specifically allow the use of military forces to quell. It is also much safer to innocent people for mitary forces with things like armored vehicles take these thugs into custody. For two reasons,They are less likely to shoot at regular Military forces than the police of FBI, and the engagement will be far more one sided if they do.

Mjölnir
01-04-2016, 06:11 PM
I think they will most likely walk, just as they did at the Bundy ranch. White men are allowed to act like terrorist with quite a bit of immunity. Witness the Fact that the leaders of this revolt have recently been involved in the same thing in the recent past and spent no time in Prison.

Yes, the Bundys have not been held accountable for cattle trespass on federal land or paying fees. It is disappointing.


They are in armed revolt against the US movement, and have chose to do so while armed armed, Harper's Ferry and the Civil war are adequate precedents for the use of military force against this kind of criminal. Insurrection and rebellion are crimes that specifically allow the use of military forces to quell. It is also much safer to innocent people for mitary forces with things like armored vehicles take these thugs into custody. For two reasons,They are less likely to shoot at regular Military forces than the police of FBI, and the engagement will be far more one sided if they do.

So essentially suspend their due process? Unlike Harper's Ferry, or Fort Sumter, they haven't shot anyone (yet). Once they do, then handle it like the war you think this is -- this is far from a war. However, as someone who has taken lives in up close proximity this is something I think cooler heads should strive to avoid.

Personally I think the militia types are more likely to open fire against FBI & Law Enforcement than military. They are generally very supportive of the military and have a pretty big beef with FBI, BLM, ATF etc.

MikeKerriii
01-04-2016, 08:11 PM
Yes, the Bundys have not been held accountable for cattle trespass on federal land or paying fees. It is disappointing. The threatening federal agents enforcing a court order with murder is a bit more serous than you think it is. Regrettably they were not arrested then, otherwise this would not have happened.




So essentially suspend their due process? Unlike Harper's Ferry, or Fort Sumter, they haven't shot anyone (yet). Once they do, then handle it like the war you think this is -- this is far from a war. However, as someone who has taken lives in up close proximity this is something I think cooler heads should strive to avoid.

Personally I think the militia types are more likely to open fire against FBI & Law Enforcement than military. They are generally very supportive of the military and have a pretty big beef with FBI, BLM, ATF etc.[/QUOTE] That is why you use the mitary instead of the law enforcement people that you advocate handle, They are less likely to shoot and of they do it is less likely that they will inflict casualties before they are stopped. They would be less likely to try to murder the members of a Mech Infantry Battalion than they would FBI agents, and be less capable of doing so. Looking down the barrel of a "Ma Deuce" is a great discouragement to foolishness.

Due process was not ignored at Harper ferry. In the Civil a war the surrender agreement's short circuited due process but that was probably for the best.

Rainmaker
01-04-2016, 08:58 PM
Why do the Feds even give a shit about a couple of cattle ranchers burning trash out on their own land in the middle of the desert anyway?

How bout All these professional Black Lies Matter protestor/terrorists clogging up the Federal interstate Highway system?

I think the National Guard should be called out, to run them over with a convoy of MRAPs the next time they pull that inconsiderate stunt.

Rainmaker
01-04-2016, 09:04 PM
We've got 30 million illegal aliens in the country and Mexican drug cartels crossing the southern border at will and the Feds are focused on collecting impact fees for a few cows accused of eating "gov't owned" shrubbery out in the middle of the Nevada desert?

This logic sounds like Janet Reno and My people Holder at Waco. "We have to burn the children alive, it's for their own safety"!

MikeKerriii
01-04-2016, 11:32 PM
Why do the Feds even give a shit about a couple of cattle ranchers burning trash out on their own land in the middle of the desert anyway? The burned up other people's land, They did so to cover up poaching on that land. Are you even trying?

Bunch
01-05-2016, 01:45 AM
To be fair the Hammond family has distance themselves from Bundy and his thugs... They have been sentenced and reportedly will report to prison today as schedule.

Mjölnir
01-05-2016, 02:24 AM
To be fair the Hammond family has distance themselves from Bundy and his thugs... They have been sentenced and reportedly will report to prison today as schedule.

Yes. They seemed to have accepted that they were found guilty (not happy about it, and really not happy about the length of the sentence) and that they lost their case. To their credit, I heard an interview the father gave and said they planned on reporting for their sentence while still exercising the appeals process.

Rainmaker
01-05-2016, 02:42 AM
The burned up other people's land, They did so to cover up poaching on that land. Are you even trying?

Who are these "other people"? They're arguing that It was a Controlled burn to take out invasive Juniper that chokes out the native grasses. So, clearly somebody's lying



my kids at least had the option to say they were white or Asian,. But that is only one small piece of the puzzle not the whole.


Now Mike, just for fun go to any search engine (google, bing etc.), and type in the following phrases, and then select images.....

Happy American Couple

Happy White American Couple

American Business Owner

. .....Judging from these results you get, let's see if you can't figure out what's going on?

MikeKerriii
01-05-2016, 03:41 AM
They're arguing that It was a Controlled burn to take out invasive Juniper that chokes out the native grasses. So, clearly somebody's lying The jury decided that they were lying, quite decisively. then the judge goofed and ignored the mandatory minimum sentence, One set by a Republican Congress, The District court fixed that error as the law required them to do.






Now Mike, just for fun go to any search engine (google, bing etc.), and type in the following phrases, and then select images.....

Happy American Couple

Happy White American Couple

American Business Owner

. .....Judging from these results you get, let's see if you can't figure out what's going on? What is that grammatically correct babble supposed to mean? You don't seriously think a search like that is meaningful in any way do you?

garhkal
01-05-2016, 03:51 AM
Concur. The OR Militia group is already contained, and while they are posturing an aggressive stance, they have not engaged anyone; at the point they do I would have no issues with law enforcement defending themselves or bystanders in the immediate area.

I read a little about this in the last few minutes (not much):

1. The father and son from OR (sentenced to prison ... supposed to turn themselves in today - 4 JAN) and their family have asked the Bundy family and their supporters to stay away.

When i was looking up their 'crime' that got them initially sentenced it was for domestic terrorism cause of a fire they had on their OWN land, spread to federal land..
I am sorry, but how the heck can that be seen by ANYONE with half a brain as being terrorism is beyond me.



Based on your arguments, it seems you would have / should have supported the use of deadly force in both Ferguson (when the protesters threw Molotov cocktails at police and National Guard troops, and were carrying weapons) or in Baltimore (where the protesters were using Molotov cocktails and carrying weapons) -- something I would have also been against. Also, based on your stance once the Black Lives Matters protesters blocked a federal interstate (the DC Beltway) and failed to disperse as directed, they were inhibiting with something the Dept. of Homeland Security defines as CIKR (Critical Infrastructure & Key Resources) and should have been handled as you advocate since that is a federal issue. I don't agree with that stance, but that is the road you are going down.

Which is one of the points i tried to make with MK...

MikeKerriii
01-05-2016, 05:53 AM
When i was looking up their 'crime' that got them initially sentenced it was for domestic terrorism cause of a fire they had on their OWN land, spread to federal land..
I am sorry, but how the heck can that be seen by ANYONE with half a brain as being terrorism is beyond me.They we CONVICTED of burning federal lands, with the intent to cover up a poaching operation. They were not convicted of terrorism, Just by one of the laws that Congress passed as apart of anti-terrorism legislation, Congress thought that intentional arson destroying federal property should be considered a serious crime. What is unreasonable about that? They were not convicted of burning their own land, they were not even charged with that.

The Hammond's are not terrorists, the armed thugs who took federal property and threaten to kill Federal agents are terrorists though. People with half a brain might not recognize that but people with a whole brain will, Hell even Ted Cruz and the Oath Keepers think the clowns are nuts,




Which is one of the points i tried to make with MK... You were factually wrong then also. When your first statement , highlighted in red, is a lie you will have trouble being taken seriously, Where did you get that silly BS from anyway?

Rainmaker
01-05-2016, 02:05 PM
CONVICTED of burning federal lands, with the intent to cover up a poaching operation. They were not convicted of terrorism, Just by one of the laws that Congress passed as apart of anti-terrorism legislation, Congress thought that intentional arson destroying federal property should be considered a serious crime. What is unreasonable about that?

On the surface, Nothing. But, the problem comes in when the government overreaches and perverts the intent of the law in a clear effort to push people off their property.

It's basically harassment.

BLM has first right of refusal on the sale of the land. Once the government "owns" all the land, they'll outsource the management/exploitation of it to Private corporate interests, under the guise of "saving the planet".



The Hammond's are not terrorists,

Stick to the narrative! If the Hammond's were not "terrorists", then why do you think the government charged them under anti-terrorism laws (Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996)?

Putting a man away for 5 years when he's already served the original sentence. For the Heinous crime of initiating a controlled burn in the middle of the desert, to stop another fire that threatened His OWN property and livestock is eccessive.

The judge that originally sentenced them to the year agreed when he cited the 8th amendment.


the armed thugs who took federal property and threaten to kill Federal agents are terrorists though. People with half a brain might not recognize that but people with a whole brain will, Hell even Ted Cruz and the Oath Keepers think the clowns are nuts,

Agree, The wing nuts have decided to make a hard stand.

Which, Coincidentally this plays right into Oblamo's naked gun grabbing, "Dangerous Right Wing extremist" meme.

Rainmaker
01-05-2016, 02:14 PM
What is that grammatically correct babble supposed to mean? You don't seriously think a search like that is meaningful in any way do you?

Did you happen to notice a common denominator with the search results?

Mjölnir
01-05-2016, 02:30 PM
Putting a man away for 5 years when he's already served the original sentence. For the Heinous crime of initiating a controlled burn in the middle of the desert, to stop another fire that threatened His OWN property and livestock is eccessive.

The judge that originally sentenced them to the year agreed when he cited the 8th amendment.

The allegation that they were burning the land to cover up poaching on federal land could be mitigating, but they were not convicted of poaching or other sentencing guidelines would have also taken effect. They were convicted of arson on federal land -- that resulted in the burning of about 140 acres of scrub brush. The minimum sentence under the sentencing guidelines is 5 years -- intended to dissuade people from destroying federal property. Going back when the minimum sentence was increased, it seems that the intent was real property, not brush. Granted, the minimum is the minimum ... but 5 years for arson (that is what they were convicted of) that did not result in the loss of life or structure and that the firefighters who were in the area at the time said they were not in any conceivable danger seems excessive. They obviously shouldn't have started the fire (if their story about invasive plant life is true) without coordinating with the BLM ... but 5 years just seems steep when thinking that if someone burned down a multi million dollar federal building would also get the same sentence.

Bunch
01-05-2016, 02:33 PM
Something that I find quite fascinating about this is the way that some sections of white america get all riled up about this and ironically is usually the same section that derides minorities when they basically fight for the same cause (government opression)

Rainmaker
01-05-2016, 02:48 PM
Something that I find quite fascinating about this is the way that some sections of white america get all riled up about this and ironically is usually the same section that derides minorities when they basically fight for the same cause (government opression)

Sort of......The difference is this....

One group wants the bureaucrats to leave them alone, so they can maintain local control of their own affairs and remain self-reliant and free , like they have been forever.

The other group wants the bureaucrats to intervene in everything, strip local control of their own affairs and remain dependent and slaves, like they have been forever.

Rainmaker
01-05-2016, 03:18 PM
The allegation that they were burning the land to cover up poaching on federal land could be mitigating, but they were not convicted of poaching or other sentencing guidelines would have also taken effect. They were convicted of arson on federal land -- that resulted in the burning of about 140 acres of scrub brush. The minimum sentence under the sentencing guidelines is 5 years -- intended to dissuade people from destroying federal property. Going back when the minimum sentence was increased, it seems that the intent was real property, not brush. Granted, the minimum is the minimum ... but 5 years for arson (that is what they were convicted of) that did not result in the loss of life or structure and that the firefighters who were in the area at the time said they were not in any conceivable danger seems excessive. They obviously shouldn't have started the fire (if their story about invasive plant life is true) without coordinating with the BLM ... but 5 years just seems steep when thinking that if someone burned down a multi million dollar federal building would also get the same sentence.

Why on Earth does the Federal Government need to "own" 65% of the land west of Denver?

They buy up all the land around them, intentionally divert the water, let invasive species grow wild and then tax the shit out of the locals for the pleasure of being harassed.

When that doesn't force them to sell, they arrest them on trumped up charges of "terrorism".

These people probably know more about environmental stewardship than all the PHD's in the BLM/FWS/EPA Combined.

Left alone, They could stay on their land and ranch it for another 150 years.

But, It's not enough for the Authoritarian Lovers in the Federal Government who would rather make them move to the city and live in a little box.

Bunch
01-05-2016, 03:37 PM
Sort of......The difference is this....

One group wants the bureaucrats to leave them alone, so they can maintain local control of their own affairs and remain self-reliant and free , like they have been forever.

The other group wants the bureaucrats to intervene in everything, strip local control of their own affairs and remain dependent and slaves, like they have been forever.

What other group you referring too? Black?

Note that I say minorities. Their is a certain section of white American that hates when any minority group stands against government oppression. Either be LGBT's, black, Hispanics, muslims...once they start standing up against what they perceived as the government oppressing them their is this certain section of white America that rolls their eyes and want the government to keep the "business as usual" attitude against these groups. But once this section of white America find itself been on the wrong end of perceived government oppression (which I think they have a very valid point) then they want all the attention and government is bad and yada yada yada Waco stuff.

Don't want to be argumentative just pointing that out.

Rainmaker
01-05-2016, 03:48 PM
What other group you referring too? Black?

Referring to Black Lives Matter.

IMO, BLM missed the boat when they hitched their wagon to Mike Brown.

A better cause would've been the fat dude in NYC that got choked to death for the Monstrous crime of...... selling loose cigarettes!!!!

Also, They should've called it something else......Like......Maybe "Our Lives Matter" and by allowing outside communist agitators to come in, they just look like a bunch of gangbangers.



Don't want to be argumentative just pointing that out.

Got the narrative......a bunch of hood rats, Burning, looting and shutting down whole cities and causing Billions of dollars in property damage and lost revenue is just civil disobedience.

But, a couple of wing-nuts stage a sit in out in the middle of the desert and suddenly the lefty's want Emperor Obama to call in Delta Force to do a CT hit.

Bottom Line. Until black protestors in general stop committing so much crime, no self-respecting people of other races are going to have any sympathy or respect for their cause.

Bunch
01-05-2016, 04:03 PM
I don't want the Bundy Clan to be treated in any other way that what the law states. The same way that if any other protester of any other movement does anything above the law then they should be treated accordingly also.

My point is that any time you see people protesting against government oppression we should listen to the position of those that claimed to be oppressed and place the burden of proof on the government to show how there is no oppression or how the situation is being changed.

I got nothing in common with the people protesting in Oregon, I don't understand why the feel so strongly about their position, I could be dismissive and say "is government land and you should get out NOW?" but I wont. I called them "thugs" earlier in the thread and that was a mistake. As a matter fact after some reading I see that they do have some very valid points that the government need to answer and change outright.

Lets see how all this ends up, hopefully cooler heads prevail and we don't have a sad episode here to regret.

Mjölnir
01-05-2016, 04:04 PM
Why on Earth does the Federal Government need to "own" 65% of the land west of Denver?

I don't think they need to.

MikeKerriii
01-05-2016, 04:08 PM
On the surface, Nothing. But, the problem comes in when the government overreaches and perverts the intent of the law in a clear effort to push people off their property.

It's basically harassment.

BLM has first right of refusal on the sale of the land. Once the government "owns" all the land, they'll outsource the management/exploitation of it to Private corporate interests, under the guise of "saving the planet".




Stick to the narrative! If the Hammond's were not "terrorists", then why do you think the government charged them under anti-terrorism laws (Antiterrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act of 1996)?

Putting a man away for 5 years when he's already served the original sentence. For the Heinous crime of initiating a controlled burn in the middle of the desert, to stop another fire that threatened His OWN property and livestock is eccessive.

The judge that originally sentenced them to the year agreed when he cited the 8th amendment. The first judge devised to ignore the relevant statues, he was override by a judge that wanted to obey the law. The original sentence was invalid and the court made sure they served the minimum required by the law, It was not a controlled burn it was intentional arson to cover up another crime.

Have you even taken a short look at the case? You keep getting the basic facts wrong

They broke the law they were charged under and were convicted of it. They are pretty ordinary criminals caught trying to cover up their crimes

MikeKerriii
01-05-2016, 04:10 PM
Did you happen to notice a common denominator with the search results?

That there was nothing meaningful in either the results of the technique? Meaningless noise is your specialty not mine.

MikeKerriii
01-05-2016, 04:12 PM
The allegation that they were burning the land to cover up poaching on federal land could be mitigating, but they were not convicted of poaching or other sentencing guidelines would have also taken effect. They were convicted of arson on federal land -- that resulted in the burning of about 140 acres of scrub brush. The minimum sentence under the sentencing guidelines is 5 years -- intended to dissuade people from destroying federal property. Going back when the minimum sentence was increased, it seems that the intent was real property, not brush. Granted, the minimum is the minimum ... but 5 years for arson (that is what they were convicted of) that did not result in the loss of life or structure and that the firefighters who were in the area at the time said they were not in any conceivable danger seems excessive. They obviously shouldn't have started the fire (if their story about invasive plant life is true) without coordinating with the BLM ... but 5 years just seems steep when thinking that if someone burned down a multi million dollar federal building would also get the same sentence.

Then change the laws. Mandatory minimums are a conservative idea, a freaking dumb idea at that, but it is the law.

UncaRastus
01-05-2016, 04:12 PM
Hold on a minute. Which Bundy family/person are we talking about?

McGeorge Bundy? An 'expert' in foreign affairs, back in the day?

Al Bundy and his fractious bunch of nogoodniks?

Ted Bundy, the law student that was framed for doing murders, which of course, he didn't do, since he was in an arm cast?

;)

MikeKerriii
01-05-2016, 04:16 PM
I don't think they need to.

They have owned a majority of that land since they murdered most the original owners to get it, If the feds don't want it anymore give it back to the original groups that owned it. But that won't help leeching ranchers much since the rents on tribal land tend to be higher that those on Federal lands.

Mjölnir
01-05-2016, 04:28 PM
Then change the laws. Mandatory minimums are a conservative idea, a freaking dumb idea at that, but it is the law.

I agree. It is what it is.

Rainmaker
01-05-2016, 04:35 PM
Lets see how all this ends up, hopefully cooler heads prevail and we don't have a sad episode here to regret.

doubt it. But, It's important to note that all these problems are caused by too much government overreach.

Mostly All these protest groups have been infiltrated and outside agents are steering the narrative to make it look as if anyone who opposes the state's authority is a" dangerous extremist"

One of the reasons that I left the Republican party (likely never to return except to vote for Trump) is because of this constant Neocon narrative for the last 15 years, that the Government's first duty is "to keep us safe".

Fuck that. The first duty of the Government is to protect our Natural rights. most everything else is an offense.

We should follow the constitution but like George Bush said, "it's just a God damn piece of paper".

So, we're post constitution now, living in an empire.

And any empire worth its salt needs a good Dictator! We're no longer voting for President. We're voting for Dictator.

And I'd rather have Nationalist Dictator Trump (that represents my interests), than a Globalist Dictator, Obama or Hillary or Insert RINO candidate here. all of whom obviously hate self reliant White Men. Nomsayin?

Rainmaker
01-05-2016, 04:46 PM
Mandatory minimums are a conservative idea, a freaking dumb idea at that, but it is the law.

Not a "conservative" idea Mike .

But, A "compassionate conservative" idea (meaning RINO progressive).

See These Liberal Bolsheviks always use doublespeak Euphemisms to mask their true intentions.

......... Social Justice, Wealth Redistribution, Affirmative action, Undocumented Immigrants, Green Infrastructure....etc.etc.

Bunch
01-05-2016, 04:49 PM
doubt it. But, It's important to note that all these problems are caused by too much government overreach.

Mostly All these protest groups have been infiltrated and outside agents are steering the narrative to make it look as if anyone who opposes the state's authority is a" dangerous extremist"

One of the reasons that I left the Republican party (likely never to return except to vote for Trump) is because of this constant Neocon narrative for the last 15 years, that the Government's first duty is "to keep us safe".

Fuck that. The first duty of the Government is to protect our Natural rights. most everything else is an offense.

We should follow the constitution but like George Bush said, "it's just a God damn piece of paper".

So, we're post constitution now, living in an empire.

And any empire worth its salt needs a good Dictator! We're no longer voting for President. We're voting for Dictator.

And I'd rather have Nationalist Dictator Trump (that represents my interests), than a Globalist Dictator, Obama or Hillary or Insert RINO candidate here. all of whom obviously hate self reliant White Men. Nomsayin?

I don't know about the "hating white men" part of your statement but I understand your view for the rest of it. I could even go as far as to say that I agree with you but thats something I promise myself to never do... Lol

Rainmaker
01-05-2016, 04:56 PM
They have owned a majority of that land since they murdered most the original owners to get it,

Last time I checked We were still officially living in the United States of America and we swore an oath to the constitution and not to the Confederated Tribes of the Coos, Lower Umpqua and Siuslaw Indian Nation, who probably came from Asia and "murdered" the original peaceful inhabitants.


I don't know about the "hating white men" part of your statement

It's only the Self reliant one's they hate.

The liberal, white apologist, self hating bitches that pay their bills and worship the nanny state are still ok.

Like it or not we're all gonna be forced to chose sides.

SomeRandomGuy
01-05-2016, 06:34 PM
They have owned a majority of that land since they murdered most the original owners to get it, If the feds don't want it anymore give it back to the original groups that owned it. But that won't help leeching ranchers much since the rents on tribal land tend to be higher that those on Federal lands.

The more important question is why taxpayers are maintaining land and selling the grazing rights at well below market value? Even though Mr. Bundy refuses to pay anything, the rates he is getting are 93% less than they should be.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-armed-oregon-ranchers-who-want-free-land-are-already-getting-a-93-percent-discount/

Rainmaker
01-05-2016, 06:46 PM
The more important question is why taxpayers are maintaining land and selling the grazing rights at well below market value? Even though Mr. Bundy refuses to pay anything, the rates he is getting are 93% less than they should be.

http://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-armed-oregon-ranchers-who-want-free-land-are-already-getting-a-93-percent-discount/

and exactly How are they "maintaining" the desert?

By diverting the natural flow of water away from private property owners and paying an army of bureaucrats and private security contractor goons to harass them?

MikeKerriii
01-05-2016, 07:33 PM
doubt it. But, It's important to note that all these problems are caused by too much government overreach. This problem was caused by a group of armed nut-jobs, lead by a thug that thinks he can use the property of others without paying for,all in support of arsonists who do not wan that kind of support, even arsonists and poachers have some standards after all


Mostly All these protest groups have been infiltrated and outside agents are steering the narrative to make or a clumsy lie. What a flimsy excuse for criminality, either a baseless lie or a paranoid fantasy, take your pick

Mjölnir
01-06-2016, 01:17 PM
This problem was caused by a group of armed nut-jobs, lead by a thug that thinks he can use the property of others without paying for,all in support of arsonists who do not wan that kind of support, even arsonists and poachers have some standards after all

Concur. Along those lines:

-the property damage in Baltimore MD was caused by criminals who wanted to break, burn and steal.
-the property damage in Ferguson MO was caused by criminals who wanted to break, burn and steal.
-the standoff with the FLDS church in TX was caused by criminals abusing children.
-the standoff in Waco TX was caused by criminals abusing children who self fulfilled an apocalypse prophecy.

Addressing the underlying issues of the issue in OR, the riots in MO & MD, the FLDS standoff, the ATF & FBI in Waco and many, many other issues are important ... but that does not excuse criminal activity ... regardless if it is right wing or left wing.

Rainmaker
01-06-2016, 02:04 PM
Concur.

Addressing the underlying issues of the issue in OR, the riots in MO & MD, the FLDS standoff, the ATF & FBI in Waco and many, many other issues are important ... but that does not excuse criminal activity ... regardless if it is right wing or left wing.

There's no comparison between some cattle ranchers setting a controlled burn (that they put out themselves) to clear underbrush that's choking out the flow of water to their property and a bunch of ghetto hood rats looting and burning down the corner CVS.

The fact that people even make this comparison shows how deeply the media brainwashing in this country runs.

Of the 52 ranchers that were in that section of Nevada in the 90's there are only one left.

The only reason BLS stood down the first time was because the Tea Party exposed Harry Reid's family connections to a proposed $5 Billion dollar Solar Plant to built on BLS "owned" land.

Otherwise, you can bet they would've rolled tanks.

http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-reid-solar-idUSBRE87U06D20120831

Feds are buying up all this land using our tax dollars and then selling it out to Chinese companies to make themselves and their pals rich under the guise of protecting a fucking turtle.

They're doing the same thing down here in Florida. People voted to have the state govt. buy up lands for recreation/environmental protection when the market was high and now that it's worthless, they're selling it back to their developer pals for pennies on the dollar.

The whole "saving the planet" bullshit is a scam.

Mjölnir
01-06-2016, 02:16 PM
There's no comparison between some cattle ranchers setting a controlled burn (that they put out themselves) to clear underbrush that's choking out the flow of water to their property and a bunch of ghetto hood rats looting and burning down the corner CVS.

The fact that people even make this comparison shows how deeply the media brainwashing in this country runs.

The larger point is that in OR, a jury of their peers convicted them of arson. Why they did it may be in dispute, but it is pretty clear they did burn roughly 140 acres of land that wasn't theirs (some of the fire also consumed brush on their land). All told, I think 5 years for arson that destroyed brush is excessive, but that is the minimum by law.

The two ranchers who were convicted are not who is causing the current issue there either, so am not really comparing them to the ghetto hood rats burning down the CVS.

Now, some pretty obvious differences between the OR incident and the incidents in MO & MD:
-So far, no property damage
-So far, no theft
-So far, no assault/battery etc.

Rainmaker
01-06-2016, 03:28 PM
The larger point is that in OR, a jury of their peers convicted them of arson. Why they did it may be in dispute, but it is pretty clear they did burn roughly 140 acres of land that wasn't theirs (some of the fire also consumed brush on their land). All told, I think 5 years for arson that destroyed brush is excessive, but that is the minimum by law.

The two ranchers who were convicted are not who is causing the current issue there either, so am not really comparing them to the ghetto hood rats burning down the CVS.

Now, some pretty obvious differences between the OR incident and the incidents in MO & MD:
-So far, no property damage
-So far, no theft
-So far, no assault/battery etc.

Just so I understand your larger point (about Bundy).

So If The United States Senate Majority leader decides move in next door to you (Reid Bunkerville LLC) and decides to run you off your property that you've been on for 150 years (by having the Government taxing you, then harassing you, then suing you , then defaming you in the media, and then finally arresting or killing you)

all so he can lease HIS property out to the Chinese.

Then, You should just seek redress through the Government, who also just so happens to be the plaintiff that's (taxing you, harassing you, suing you, defaming you , arresting you and then killing you) all so they can lease THEIR property out to the Chinese?

MikeKerriii
01-06-2016, 03:33 PM
Concur. Along those lines:

-the property damage in Baltimore MD was caused by criminals who wanted to break, burn and steal.
-the property damage in Ferguson MO was caused by criminals who wanted to break, burn and steal.
-the standoff with the FLDS church in TX was caused by criminals abusing children.
-the standoff in Waco TX was caused by criminals abusing children who self fulfilled an apocalypse prophecy.

Addressing the underlying issues of the issue in OR, the riots in MO & MD, the FLDS standoff, the ATF & FBI in Waco and many, many other issues are important ... but that does not excuse criminal activity ... regardless if it is right wing or left wing.

I agree, with the exception of things like parading without a permit, where you sit on a bus or sitting at a lunch counter while the wrong color there is no excuse for criminal acts while protesting. And the folks who did those things EXPECTED to be arrested

Rainmaker
01-06-2016, 03:40 PM
And the folks who did those things EXPECTED to be arrested

Do you think that they EXPECTED to serve their sentences, be released and then be Re arrested?

MikeKerriii
01-06-2016, 03:44 PM
There's no comparison between some cattle ranchers setting a controlled burn (that they put out themselves) to clear underbrush that's choking out the flow of water to their property and a bunch of ghetto hood rats looting and burning down the corner CVS.

The fact that people even make this comparison shows how deeply the media brainwashing in this country runs.
. Both groups of Criminals commuted the crimes for personal gain. Your fictional account of the burn has a problem, facts and a jury trial don't back it up, Even testimony from a Hammond family member say that lie is pure BS.

BTW, were the jury in on the tin-foil hat conspiracy theory you are babbling


"Witnesses at trial, including a relative of the Hammonds, testified the arson occurred shortly after Steven Hammond and his hunting party illegally slaughtered several deer on BLM property. Jurors were told that Steven Hammond handed out “Strike Anywhere” matches with instructions that they be lit and dropped on the ground because they were going to “light up the whole country on fire.”"

http://www.justice.gov/usao-or/pr/eastern-oregon-ranchers-convicted-arson-resentenced-five-years-prison



If you are going to lie try not to make the lies as idiotic as this one.

MikeKerriii
01-06-2016, 03:49 PM
Just so I understand your larger point (about Bundy).

So If The United States Senate Majority leader decides move in next door to you (Reid Bunkerville LLC) and decides to run you off your property that you've been on for 150 years (by having the Government taxing you, then harassing you, then suing you , then defaming you in the media, and then finally arresting or killing you)

all so he can lease HIS property out to the Chinese.

Then, You should just seek redress through the Government, who also just so happens to be the plaintiff that's (taxing you, harassing you, suing you, defaming you , arresting you and then killing you) all so they can lease THEIR property out to the Chinese? Bundy's problem was that he was using land he had no right to be on and refusing to pay for the use of that land. It was not and had never been Bundy's property. No more tha your yard is my property,

MikeKerriii
01-06-2016, 03:52 PM
Do you think that they EXPECTED to serve their sentences, be released and then be Re arrested?

They did serve their sentence for the most part, and the Hammonds did not serve the minimum sentence the law required, so they have to serve the remainders of that sentence, The Initial judge ignored federal law and the district court fixed the problem, The trial judge had no legal right to give the sentence he did.

Rainmaker
01-06-2016, 03:59 PM
BTW, were the jury in on the tin-foil hat conspiracy theory you are babbling


OMG.....Clearly This Changes Everything!!!! The Government (Read Plantiff's) own Press Release says THEY ILLEGALLY SLAUGHTERED SEVERAL DEER!!!!

Before you know it these Monsters will be........... WARMING UP THE OVENS!!!! AAARRRGGGHHHH! HELP ME JESUS! HELP ME JEWISH GOD! HELP ME ALLAH! HELP ME TOM CRUISE!TOM CRUISE, USE WITCHCRAFT ON ME TO GET THE FIRE OFF ME! HELP ME OPRAH WINFREY!!!!!.....

MikeKerriii
01-06-2016, 04:12 PM
OMG.....Clearly This Changes Everything!!!! The Government (Read Plantiff's) own Press Release says THEY ILLEGALLY SLAUGHTERED SEVERAL DEER!!!!

Before you know it these Monsters will be........... WARMING UP THE OVENS!!!! AAARRRGGGHHHH! HELP ME JESUS! HELP ME JEWISH GOD! HELP ME ALLAH! HELP ME TOM CRUISE!TOM CRUISE, USE WITCHCRAFT ON ME TO GET THE FIRE OFF ME! HELP ME OPRAH WINFREY!!!!!.....

And you somehow find the convicted felons word more credible?

Rainmaker
01-06-2016, 04:22 PM
Bundy's problem was that he was using land he had no right to be on

No Bundy's "problem" is that he's been standing in the way of a total federal monopolization of natural resources and he didn't just sell out (or cave in to harassment) from Slime ball politicians like Harry Reid and his faggot sons who plan to profit off of that.

Rainmaker
01-06-2016, 04:33 PM
And you somehow find the convicted felons word more credible?

It makes me question their credibility when they imbed obvious propaganda in official press releases, like calling Hunting .... "Slaughtering" Deer.

It's about as believable as the government spending millions of taxpayer dollars a year, buying up arid land out in the middle of the desert and redirecting the natural flow of water, under the guise of protecting turtles.

Mjölnir
01-06-2016, 04:36 PM
Just so I understand your larger point (about Bundy).

So If The United States Senate Majority leader decides move in next door to you (Reid Bunkerville LLC) and decides to run you off your property that you've been on for 150 years (by having the Government taxing you, then harassing you, then suing you , then defaming you in the media, and then finally arresting or killing you)

all so he can lease HIS property out to the Chinese.

Then, You should just seek redress through the Government, who also just so happens to be the plaintiff that's (taxing you, harassing you, suing you, defaming you , arresting you and then killing you) all so they can lease THEIR property out to the Chinese?

I think IRT their issues with their land in NV, the Bundy's have a legitimate gripe with the government.

I know they did not exercise their full run of options via the judicial branch prior to their run in with the government in NV. I do not support them taking the action they did, especially considering that they still had legal (and non confrontational) options.

IRT the presence of the Bundy kid and his supporters in OR, tha Hammonds did not want them there. The Hammonds served a sentence that was not in accordance with the required minimum by law and even though that is the fault of the first judge, it does seem like a pseudo double jeopardy situation for them. To their credit, the Hammonds are continuing with their legal options but surrendered to custody.

Rainmaker
01-06-2016, 05:04 PM
I do not support them taking the action they did, especially considering that they still had legal (and non confrontational) options.

Maybe they decided against going into bankruptcy continually defending themselves against Frivolous lawsuits in a Kangaroo Federal court system that's been bought off by Chinese Business interests.

The Bundy's probably are Crazy....... But, at least they got rid of Harry Reid!

Rainmaker
01-06-2016, 05:10 PM
Must admit I'm biased.

Growing up from a family that had their property they'd farmed for 130 years basically stolen thru eminent domain (after they wouldn't sell out)

I can remember as a kid we used to go up there to visit the 3 acre family cemetery (They let us keep that part) After they were done stripping it, The surrounding land looked like the surface of the moon.

My Grandfather drank himself to death and his brother Shot himself in the fucking head over it.

But, thanks to the efforts of the Benevolent Environmental Protection Racket (doing absolutely nothing with it for 40 years), it's once again a pristine piece of land and teeming with deer.

Sometimes, we'll go out and hunt on the old homestead.

But, of course we run the risk being arrested and jailed for trespassing and SLAUGHTERING BAMBI in a "Wildlife Management Area"......... Rainmaker Out//

UncaRastus
01-06-2016, 05:17 PM
Rainmaker, come on out here. We have way too many accidents caused by Bambi and Company trying to take out motor vehiclists.

I do my duty by trying to go down one street every day during the summer, intentionally running over venomous snake's heads.

MikeKerriii
01-06-2016, 05:22 PM
I think IRT their issues with their land in NV, the Bundy's have a legitimate gripe with the government.

The Bundys don't have a issue with their land, the have a issue with public land theist they refuse to pay, even the highly discounted rate, to use.They are thieves plain and simple . They like the Hammond's have a problem with the idea that you can't harm or use other people property without permission and payment if payment is required

UncaRastus
01-06-2016, 05:56 PM
During my Junior High School days (Middle Schools, bah), how we were told about how the US gov't owned and leased huge tracts of land.

Today, the US gov't and the Bundy's support group seems to be going back to the bad old days of the wild west, with range wars, sheepmen vs. cattlemen, cattlemen vs. settlers, cattlemen vs. homesteaders, gov't against the 'Indian' Native Americans, and so on.

I seem to recall how the state, or maybe the US gov't against Indians, over the usage of the island of Alcatraz, where the gov't let them stay there until they got tired of being on 'their island', and how they left, and Alcatraz was turned into a new place that everybody must see, for their bucket lists.

My memory might be a bit askew on that last point.

I recall being taught as to how Indians were shoved off of their rezs, and moved to other rezs, time and again.

Remember! The US gov't is by the people, for the people, etc..

Am I right, or what?

How about when the city, county, state, or the US wants some land, they will have that land.

On the other hand, I also recall, from back in the 1990s, how dairymen and ranchers around and in the Chino Valley were not allowed to sell their dairies and ranches to developers, because the New Delhi Fly was found on one of those dairies.

How dare anyone want to sell their dairy or ranch, when the very existence in California of the ND Fly population was at stake, for that area?

Think of the children!

Oops. Think of the maggots!

Can you give only $19.95 a month, less than the cost of Starbucks coffee for a week, to support the poor New Delhi Fly? A smile from a New Delhi Fly awaits your contributions!

167

UncaRastus
01-06-2016, 05:56 PM
repeated post

Rainmaker
01-06-2016, 06:40 PM
If the feds don't want it anymore give it back to the original groups that owned it.

So which one of the original groups that "owned" it should the feds be giving it back to?

For Thousands of years the various Indian tribes were killing and displacing each other in wars, long before the first white man ever stepped foot on the continent.

Some of them practiced Cannibalism and Human sacrifice and genocide on a horrendous scale.

Yet to the To the Bleeding heart White Liberal, All This is just seen as a naturally occurring phenomenon of evolution.

It's only when the White man conquers something, that It suddenly becomes a crime against nature, for which all white people are collectively guilty and need to seek forgiveness and make amends by giving a free ride to every person of color from now until the end of time.

Liberalism is a mental disorder.

Mjölnir
01-06-2016, 07:30 PM
Maybe they decided against going into bankruptcy continually defending themselves against Frivolous lawsuits in a Kangaroo Federal court system that's been bought off by Chinese Business interests.

Maybe they did ...

Rainmaker
01-06-2016, 07:50 PM
Maybe they did ...

Good morning Commander!

Look Unca, Just when we need him a patriot from Jefferson shows up!

UncaRastus
01-06-2016, 09:13 PM
Yeppers, Rainyday. He is also in command of the Jeffersonian Junta, of which I am a proud member of. Don't tell anyone though. I may be getting cranky with my advanced age, but I really hate to have to clear my property's airspace of all of them there spy drones.

I am like 100 yards from not living in town. Should be close enough to thinking that my property is a free fire zone. Not for them (we know who they are). For ME! The police are getting a tad bit cross with me, using my M6 tracked vehicle, to fire the Stingers from.

They took the tag from the license plate, so I can't drive it off of my property to reposition it.

The AF is mad at me, just because they fly practice missions overhead. They say that the Stingers just impact with, then carry the spy drones, until the Stingers hit their aircraft. Then they blow up.

I have notified them, sternly, might I add, that they must move their practice missions to another town, but you know those brass hats.

Somehow their practice missions are more important than me shooting down spy drones.

Go figure.

So, mum's the word, OK?

MikeKerriii
01-07-2016, 12:42 AM
So which one of the original groups that "owned" it should the feds be giving it back to?


The Paiute who have lived there since before the founding of Rome or Babylon. It was there land before the US made it federal land. The Refuge is comprised principally of land that has never been anything but tribal or Federal land at least in the last 4000 years or so. Do you have some factuall knowledge of the Paiutes stealing it from anyone, or is that just another clumsy lie?

garhkal
01-07-2016, 03:43 AM
The Hammonds served a sentence that was not in accordance with the required minimum by law and even though that is the fault of the first judge, it does seem like a pseudo double jeopardy situation for them. To their credit, the Hammonds are continuing with their legal options but surrendered to custody.

That does sound like a double jeopardy situation to me. I mean look at how many criminals have been released cause of 'screw-ups in sentencing or other flaws like someone fat fingered the wrong SSN or other info into the computer// you rarely hear of them bein rounded up to 'finish out their sentence..

MikeKerriii
01-07-2016, 04:52 AM
That does sound like a double jeopardy situation to me. I mean look at how many criminals have been released cause of 'screw-ups in sentencing or other flaws like someone fat fingered the wrong SSN or other info into the computer// you rarely hear of them bein rounded up to 'finish out their sentence..

If it sounds like double jeopardy to you you have no clue what the term means, They were tried and convicted only only once and are serving the minimum legal sentence for the crime they committed. You might not hear about people being released in errors being caught and returned, but it does happen, Perhaps you pay too little attention?


Double jeopardy is a procedural defence (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Procedural_defense) that forbids a defendant (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defendant) from being tried (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trial) again on the same (or similar) charges in the same case following a legitimate acquittal or conviction.




There was only one trial, and only one conviction what a happened was a judged F'd up and a senior judge corrected his mistake.

Rainmaker
01-07-2016, 02:29 PM
The Paiute who have lived there since before the founding of Rome or Babylon. It was there land before the US made it federal land. The Refuge is comprised principally of land that has never been anything but tribal or Federal land at least in the last 4000 years or so. Do you have some factuall knowledge of the Paiutes stealing it from anyone, or is that just another clumsy lie?

Woa there Che Guevara!

Did you just say "give it back to The Pauite"??!!

Didn't they teach you guys anything up there in Canada? The inter-tribal prejudices of Paiute shamanism is legendary....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"When Lewis and Clark's men first encountered the Umatilla, the terrified Indians hid in their homes or abandoned them at the strangers' approach. Determined to placate the Indians, Clark forced his way into one of the lodges and convinced the inhabitants of his good will through the liberal distribution of gifts.


Years later Clark explained that the Umatilla told the Corps members that they thought the Americans were sky gods and feared that the spirits meant to kill them. Apparently, as Clark approached the villages on the day of the first encounter he had casually killed a crane. The band associated the loud noise of the gunshots, the dead crane, and the sudden appearance of strangers as bad signs.

The Umatilla were also frequently raided by neighboring Paiute and may have chosen to hide to avoid such a confrontation"

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/lewisandclark/record_tribes_068_13_29.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are guilty of committing Micro-aggression offense against the Umatilla-Juniper-Deer-Eater Bands!

It's not your fault though........... Because, If you woke up still White today, then that means that...... YOU ARE A RACIST!!

Now you must immediately report to your nearest FEMA camp for Cultural awareness Training "Please Don't Rape Me"101.

UncaRastus
01-07-2016, 04:30 PM
Not a Deer-Eater Band.. They are to be called the Deer-Slaughtering Drum and Bugle Corps. You must update your non PC lingo, Rainmaker. Who do you think you are? A sky god?

MikeKerriii
01-07-2016, 05:04 PM
Woa there Che Guevara!

Did you just say "give it back to The Pauite"??!!

Didn't they teach you guys anything up there in Canada? The inter-tribal prejudices of Paiute shamanism is legendary....

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

"When Lewis and Clark's men first encountered the Umatilla, the terrified Indians hid in their homes or abandoned them at the strangers' approach. Determined to placate the Indians, Clark forced his way into one of the lodges and convinced the inhabitants of his good will through the liberal distribution of gifts.


Years later Clark explained that the Umatilla told the Corps members that they thought the Americans were sky gods and feared that the spirits meant to kill them. Apparently, as Clark approached the villages on the day of the first encounter he had casually killed a crane. The band associated the loud noise of the gunshots, the dead crane, and the sudden appearance of strangers as bad signs.

The Umatilla were also frequently raided by neighboring Paiute and may have chosen to hide to avoid such a confrontation"

http://www.nationalgeographic.com/lewisandclark/record_tribes_068_13_29.html

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

You are guilty of committing Micro-aggression offense against the Umatilla-Juniper-Deer-Eater Bands!

It's not your fault though........... Because, If you woke up still White today, then that means that...... YOU ARE A RACIST!!

Now you must immediately report to your nearest FEMA camp for Cultural awareness Training "Please Don't Rape Me"101.

WTF does that have to do with this discussion?

Is that babble supposed to have some relevance?

garhkal
01-07-2016, 08:21 PM
If it sounds like double jeopardy to you you have no clue what the term means, They were tried and convicted only only once and are serving the minimum legal sentence for the crime they committed. You might not hear about people being released in errors being caught and returned, but it does happen, Perhaps you pay too little attention?




Which is why i said it sounds LIKE a DJ situation.. NOT that it WAS a DJ situation.

retiredAFcivvy
01-07-2016, 09:11 PM
Which is why i said it sounds LIKE a DJ situation.. NOT that it WAS a DJ situation.

Mjolnir said it was a "pseudo" double jeapordy.

retiredAFcivvy
01-07-2016, 09:20 PM
Yeppers, Rainyday. He is also in command of the Jeffersonian Junta, of which I am a proud member of. Don't tell anyone though. I may be getting cranky with my advanced age, but I really hate to have to clear my property's airspace of all of them there spy drones.

I am like 100 yards from not living in town. Should be close enough to thinking that my property is a free fire zone. Not for them (we know who they are). For ME! The police are getting a tad bit cross with me, using my M6 tracked vehicle, to fire the Stingers from.

They took the tag from the license plate, so I can't drive it off of my property to reposition it.

The AF is mad at me, just because they fly practice missions overhead. They say that the Stingers just impact with, then carry the spy drones, until the Stingers hit their aircraft. Then they blow up.

I have notified them, sternly, might I add, that they must move their practice missions to another town, but you know those brass hats.

Somehow their practice missions are more important than me shooting down spy drones.

Go figure.

So, mum's the word, OK?

Is there a warthog in your future? OBTW when Rainey comes for bambi please let him know that the game warden will be checking for his non-resident license and proper deer tag.

UncaRastus
01-07-2016, 09:26 PM
Warthog! Yummay!!!

retiredAFcivvy
01-07-2016, 09:39 PM
Rainmaker, come on out here. We have way too many accidents caused by Bambi and Company trying to take out motor vehiclists.

I do my duty by trying to go down one street every day during the summer, intentionally running over venomous snake's heads.
You do know that in MO every snake is either a copperhead or cotton mouth? When I was a boy I found this mean looking snake (short and fat with a diamond shaped head) coiled up ready to strike. Turned out it was a hognosed snake. I still feel bad about doing that little guy in.

UncaRastus
01-07-2016, 10:07 PM
civvy, if it is a snake, looks like a snake, kind of looks like a snake, or has snake in it's name, I will pop it's ugly little snaky type head. Then I will back up over it, to make sure that it's dead. Then I will do some donuts, to make even more sure that it's dead. If I am carrying, I will also blow it's remains to kingdom come.

MikeKerriii
01-08-2016, 12:35 AM
Which is why i said it sounds LIKE a DJ situation.. NOT that it WAS a DJ situation.

It can only sound like Double Jeopardy if you have no idea what DJ means.

MikeKerriii
01-08-2016, 12:39 AM
civvy, if it is a snake, looks like a snake, kind of looks like a snake, or has snake in it's name, I will pop it's ugly little snaky type head. Then I will back up over it, to make sure that it's dead. Then I will do some donuts, to make even more sure that it's dead. If I am carrying, I will also blow it's remains to kingdom come.

Don't go to Australia they will jail you for that, A friend of mine was only save from a couple of months in Jail by the intervention of the RAAF, Snakes there make Rattlers and Cottonmouths look like pets, They also have spiders that you can hear walking.

Rainmaker
01-08-2016, 04:25 AM
Here is the text of the speech by Congressman Greg Walden on the House Floor concerning this issue yesterday.

He puts this in the proper context, which Is a marked departure from the usual MSM/Pravada drumbeat.

worth a read....


http://republicbroadcasting.org/news/oregon-militants-walden-takes-blm-to-woodshed-transcript/

MikeKerriii
01-08-2016, 04:24 PM
Here is the text of the speech by Congressman Greg Walden on the House Floor concerning this issue yesterday.

He puts this in the proper context, which Is a marked departure from the usual MSM/Pravada drumbeat.

worth a read....


http://republicbroadcasting.org/news/oregon-militants-walden-takes-blm-to-woodshed-transcript/

You will notice at no point in his speech doe he say that having dim-wiited thugs taking armed action, and the law into their own hands is a viable option

And they are definitely dim-witted thugs

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3387117/Stolen-valor-Militiaman-bodyguard-ranchers-Cliven-Ammon-Bundy-posing-retired-Marine-served-Afghanistan-Iraq-boost-combat-credentials.html

http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/oregon-militants-brawl-as-friends-beg-them-to-go-home-youre-surrounded-by-informants/

Rainmaker
01-08-2016, 05:01 PM
You will notice at no point in his speech doe he say that having dim-wiited thugs taking armed action, and the law into their own hands is a viable option

he says a lot. for instance.

"how do you have faith in a government that doesn’t ever listen to you? How do you have faith in a government that, when elected Representatives write a law, those charged with the responsibility of implementing it choose to go the other direction and not do so? That is what is breaking faith between the American people and their government, and that is what has to change."

There's 2 issues at hand. The Arrogant BLS and Influence pedaling Political whores ganging up on the local ranching community thru an obvious land grab to Federalize and then loot the natural resources under the guise of "saving the planet" (while they let millions of acres burn)

And the response to that, which was at first peaceful and has since been infiltrated by wing nuts.

MikeKerriii
01-08-2016, 06:30 PM
he says a lot. for instance.

"how do you have faith in a government that doesn’t ever listen to you? How do you have faith in a government that, when elected Representatives write a law, those charged with the responsibility of implementing it choose to go the other direction and not do so? That is what is breaking faith between the American people and their government, and that is what has to change."

There's 2 issues at hand. The Arrogant BLS and Influence pedaling Political whores ganging up on the local ranching community thru an obvious land grab to Federalize and then loot the natural resources under the guise of "saving the planet" (while they let millions of acres burn)

And the response to that, which was at first peaceful and has since been infiltrated by wing nuts.

The seizure was initiated by wing nuts and loons and the refuge still being held exclusively by wingnut criminals.

Very little of the land was seized from anyone, Initial most was held by The local tribe, then The federal government owned it. They owned it before there was a state of Oregon The other two large acquisitions were in the 30s when the owners sold the land during the depression.


http://www.oregonlive.com/pacific-northwest-news/index.ssf/2016/01/supreme_court_already_ruled_th.html



How exactly to you give "back land' to people that never have owed the land? A vast majority of the land never belonged to the ranchers or the state of Oregon since Federal ownership predates the existence of the state.

Despite you efforts to change the subject, he still doesn't try to justify the actions of these dim-witted criminals. Of course since he is not an idiot and has some knowledge of the law and history involved he won't try to do so.

Rainmaker
01-08-2016, 08:02 PM
The seizure was initiated by wing nuts and loons and the refuge still being held exclusively by wingnut criminals.

That's why I said.... "And the response to that, which was at first peaceful and has since been infiltrated by wing nuts".


Despite you efforts to change the subject, he still doesn't try to justify the actions of these dim-witted criminals

What do you mean my efforts to change the subject? I'm the one posted the link in the first place Doofas.


Of course since he is not an idiot and has some knowledge of the law and history involved he won't try to do so.

He not only has some knowledge. He wrote the damn law (Steens Mountain Cooperative Management and Protection Act )

And that's what he's saying........ That overzealous bureaucrats in Federal agencies went beyond the law, and are violating the cooperative spirit in which it was written.

Did you even read the text?

Or are you just going with the British Tabloid pictures of goofballs with bloody noses that fits into your little White man hating, Marxist paradigm?

The dispute is over grazing rights. Agreements were made and the government keeps imposing new conditions on the agreements.

And By the way,

They're also doing this same thing to your uncorruptible, "Nobel Savage", heros, peacefully trying to live in Utopian Harmony with Nature................

"Carrie Dann and her sister Mary Dann, traditional Western Shoshone Indians, routinely graze livestock on these lands because they are ancestral Western Shoshone lands. The U.S. government, through the BLM, routinely threatens to confiscate the cattle and sometimes seizes them, selling the impounded livestock at auction"."

https://www.culturalsurvival.org/publications/cultural-survival-quarterly/united-states/us-denies-shoshone-grazing-rights-threatens-h


See? you go out of business voluntarily. Or, They seize your property.

Extortion. That's what they're doing..... And that's what the Bundy ranch standoff (initially) was about.

MikeKerriii
01-08-2016, 08:28 PM
That's why I said.... "And the response to that, which was at first peaceful and has since been infiltrated by wing nuts".
It has never been anything but wingnuts at the refuge

MikeKerriii
01-13-2016, 12:39 PM
You can add destruction of public property and grand theft to the list of crimes the "militia" have committed at the Refuge

http://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/opinion/2016/01/12/get-heck-out-malheur-wildlife-refuge/78697214/

http://thevillagessuntimes.com/2016/01/12/malheur-occupiers-cut-government-fence-near-refuge/

They are going full on sovereign citizen crazy with fake courts also.
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/colorado-man-appoints-himself-judge-for-bundy-militants-bogus-court-against-local-officials/

Rainmaker
01-13-2016, 01:43 PM
You can add destruction of public property and grand theft to the list of crimes the "militia" have committed at the Refuge

http://www.statesmanjournal.com/story/opinion/2016/01/12/get-heck-out-malheur-wildlife-refuge/78697214/

http://thevillagessuntimes.com/2016/01/12/malheur-occupiers-cut-government-fence-near-refuge/

They are going full on sovereign citizen crazy with fake courts also.
http://www.rawstory.com/2016/01/colorado-man-appoints-himself-judge-for-bundy-militants-bogus-court-against-local-officials/

Well since, you get 5 years in the big house for setting a controlled back burn, they'll probably get 20 to life for taking down a fence.

UncaRastus
01-13-2016, 02:01 PM
Rainmaker, since you have been making Mad Dashes between being at The Trump PeopLe Meetings, and being at the Site of The Fence Murdering Scoundrels, and telling Mr. Rollyn how to build The Rainyday's Compound and Water Park, and selling Real Estate to Those Notoriously Bad Boys of Cocaine and Bath Salt Smuggling, I can only say, that I am in awe of your Get Up and Go!

Well, at your Well Placed Political Thinking, because I happen to know what you trade with, with Cocaine and Novelty Bath Salts 'Salesmen'.

That's OK. I am not telling anybody else on you. ;)

Can you tell me though? Do those Bath Salts really work up a good lather? I would think that would be kind of important.

Rainmaker
01-13-2016, 04:41 PM
Can you tell me though? Do those Bath Salts really work up a good lather? I would think that would be kind of important.

Unca, Based on my extensive research into this matter I've come to the conclusion that this situation will not be resolved anytime soon.

Because, By using a cocktail of Captagon mixed with bath salts these Evil, Zombie-Terrorists are likely to be able to stay out there indefinitely.

You See, The Captagon allows them to stay awake 24-7 and the Bath salts keep them warm in the sub zero temperatures and allows them to be able to tolerate eating their own feces.

They were probably hallucinating and thought that the fence was one of those "vulnerable Desert tortoises" that The BLM uses as an excuse to justify stealing Patriotic American's private property in their sinister Agenda 21 "sustainable development" Chinese land grab.

Which is why is why Ammon Bundy murdered the innocent fence post.

And as if that isn't enough, sadly this may escalate even more ......

Because, We've just learned that an Army of "Angry Birders" from Ethiopia are enroute to Oregon to wage a Jihad (on behalf of the cute little birds called the Yellow Warblers).

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/01/08/travel/angry-birders-standoff-at-oregon-refuge-has-riled-a-passionate-group.html?_r=0

I think it's about time for Janet Reno to order the Code Red.

UncaRastus
01-13-2016, 04:51 PM
Not the Code Red! I am going to my hidden lair, which is also called the basement, to wait out the Code Red!

Rainmaker
01-13-2016, 05:14 PM
Not the Code Red! I am going to my hidden lair, which is also called the basement, to wait out the Code Red!



Where is ACME_MAN with one of those Sorcha Faal Intel reports when you need him?

Also, Unca, It has recently occurred to me that Cliven Bundy's trouble making son is named "Ammon".

Now, To the profane, this may seem to be a mere coincidence, But speaking as one Initiated by the Oracle at Gibtown. I can tell you that There is no such thing as "coincidence"....

But, Just Who were the Ammonites? Descendants of Ammon ( Son of Lot).

"David also defeated them and their allies THE SYRIANS"!!!!

http://www.christiananswers.net/dictionary/ammonite.html

So......Ammon Bundy = Bashar Al-Assad = This doesn't end well...

UncaRastus
01-13-2016, 05:43 PM
Rainmaker, those stinky Ammonites were and are always causing trouble. It has never ended well before, and I don't see the Oregon Ammonites nor the Syrian Ammonites coming out of their current problems without somebody getting an owwie.

As I said, was going to, now I am in my lair of hiding and now I am planning for the new State of 'Leave Me Alonelandia'.

I have to work on the Constitution for my 1 property state country. I still insist on getting my pension check, my VA check, and my SS check. And food and other things.

I guess that if I promise to quit working on my newkewlar device, that the USA will honor those things which I insist on getting.

I will declare war, sometime, then immediately surrender, and claim all of the money that countries which the USA pick on get paid.

I need an ambassador. You wouldn't happen to be able to spare Rollyn for awhile, would you? Please?

Yes, the Royal Crown weighs heavily upon me, as well as the Robes of Justice. That's all right. I can bear up under the awesome and sometimes awe full weight of them there Bits of Royal Golden Thingies.

We must set up an encrypted way of communications between my Palace, and your Compound. So that We can call each other up and whisper naughty things about the US gov't.

Now the Queen is calling on Me to quit this bit of jabberjawed foolishness, and to come on up and eat a delicious burrito.

ttyl

Rainmaker
01-23-2016, 02:29 PM
20 minute interview with Ammon Bundy. seems very different from the "fence murdering right wing terrorist meme" being painted in the MSM. interesting that about 4:30 in he tells the interviewer that they have not had one federal official tell them to leave. wonder why?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nLQgCdI5pQ0

UncaRastus
01-23-2016, 03:07 PM
Rainy, it's because Ted Al McGeorge Ammon Bundy doesn't think that federal agents are for real, because, by gosh, he is the Mighty Bundy!

And the 'murican gov't really doesn't want a repeat of the Randy Weaver and Waco stuff to ever happen again. That would be bad juju.

From what I have heard, the feds don't think that the Murderous Crew of Fence Killers really exist, either. Not a single person really killed a fence, by taking out a fence post.

However, if more than 5 fence posts are removed, it would be a different story. We can't have a Serial Fence Post Killer on the loose!

Think of the fence postlets!

Or was that Post Toasties?

Not sure. Must get back to CNN, to find out how evil these guys are. And also, must ... find ... dilithium ... crystals ...

UncaRastus
01-23-2016, 03:10 PM
The reason that I liked your post, Rainman, is because that dude is wearing a cowboy hat. Who doesn't like guys with cowboy hats?

I have located my Drill Instructor cover, and I am wearing that. Back in the day, cowboys wore DI hatties, sometimes, although they probably didn't have the USMC EGA on the front of them.

Rainmaker
01-23-2016, 03:30 PM
Not sure. Must get back to CNN, to find out how evil these guys are. And also, must ... find ... dilithium ... crystals ...

Megyn Kelly makes him sound like a cross between "Angel eyes" from the "Good the bad and the Ugly" and Adolph Hitler.

But, when I watched that video he seems more like the guy that works at the local feed store to me.

MikeKerriii
01-23-2016, 06:11 PM
Megyn Kelly makes him sound like a cross between "Angel eyes" from the "Good the bad and the Ugly" and Adolph Hitler.

But, when I watched that video he seems more like the guy that works at the local feed store to me.

Then the "guy at you local feed store " is a ignorant fool who is more than a bit insane.

MikeKerriii
01-23-2016, 06:14 PM
Well since, you get 5 years in the big house for setting a controlled back burn, they'll probably get 20 to life for taking down a fence.

Nobody got five years for a "controlled back Burn", they got 5 years for intentional arson on federal land which witnesses say was started was to cover up poaching and other crimes.

Rainmaker
01-23-2016, 08:14 PM
Nobody got five years for a "controlled back Burn", they got 5 years for intentional arson on federal land which witnesses say was started was to cover up poaching and other crimes.

Could be. But, "arsonists" usually don't put out their own fires and then report it to the government.

Rainmaker
01-23-2016, 08:37 PM
Then the "guy at you local feed store " is a ignorant fool who is more than a bit insane.

After 3 weeks he looked really cozy sitting there in his shirt sleves.

I'm sure the lesbians running the "just us" department are twisting themselves up in knots wondering what to do about these psycho right wing fence post killers that hijacked the bird sanctuary in the middle of winter.

Wonder if any of the geniuses have thought about shutting off the power and water or stopping mail delivery of care packages yet?

How many of Harry Reid's innocent, pet turtles will have to die before Loretta Lynch orders the code red??!!

UncaRastus
01-23-2016, 08:46 PM
I think that Loretta Lynn should stick to singing about being a coal miner's daughter.

You mean to tell me that if someone sets a fire to get rid of some nasty brush, and it goes onto land that is not his, and he puts the fire out, that he can prosecuted????

Uh ... um ... er ... I am going to the corner store for some smokes. Don't wait up for me ...

MikeKerriii
01-24-2016, 12:54 AM
Could be. But, "arsonists" usually don't put out their own fires and then report it to the government.

They did in this case, their scam failed.

I guess you know more about what happened than the jury did?

MikeKerriii
01-24-2016, 12:56 AM
I think that Loretta Lynn should stick to singing about being a coal miner's daughter.

You mean to tell me that if someone sets a fire to get rid of some nasty brush, and it goes onto land that is not his, and he puts the fire out, that he can prosecuted????

Uh ... um ... er ... I am going to the corner store for some smokes. Don't wait up for me ... The fire was started on Federal land.

Rainmaker
01-24-2016, 01:17 AM
They did in this case, their scam failed.

I guess you know more about what happened than the jury did?

Juries can be wrong, which is why judges sometimes give a more lenient sentence.

I think the evidence is clear that the Hammonds started a back burn on Federal property to save their ranch because, the Feds have too much land for them to effectively manage.

The House committee on natural resources agrees with me.

http://naturalresources.house.gov/newsroom/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=398389

But, I think the poaching story is likely made up.

Why else do you think they were not charged with poaching?

MikeKerriii
01-24-2016, 01:13 PM
Juries can be wrong, which is why judges sometimes give a more lenient sentence.

I think the evidence is clear that the Hammonds started a back burn on Federal property to save their ranch because, the Feds have too much land for them to effectively manage.

The House committee on natural resources agrees with me.

http://naturalresources.house.gov/newsroom/documentsingle.aspx?DocumentID=398389

But, I think the poaching story is likely made up.

Why else do you think they were not charged with poaching?

You think juries can be wrong but are in favor of the death penalty? I guess only for non-whites? Juries can be wrong but this case has gone though the entire appeals process and there is nothing to indicate they were wrong this time, And it is funny you are usually in favor of the police simply executing suspects.

WHAT evidence is there that the jury was wrong and that the fire was set on their land? Other than the testimony of the convicted criminals that is? The link you provided says nothing about this individual case BTW.

It is hard to gather evidence of poaching on Federal land if some scumbag burns the land where the evidence would be. Criminals often use arson to cover their crimes and destroy evidence,

Rainmaker
01-24-2016, 03:26 PM
You think juries can be wrong but are in favor of the death penalty?

Yes, and I also think Doctors can be wrong and yet I'm still in Favor of having Medicine.


I guess only for non-whites? Juries can be wrong but this case has gone though the entire appeals process and there is nothing to indicate they were wrong this time, And it is funny you are usually in favor of the police simply executing suspects.

I also favor Racial profiling because 95% of the violent crimes in this country are committed by EBT recipients that look like they could be Obama's sons. But, I am open minded, so if that ever stops being the case, I might change my opinion.


WHAT evidence is there that the jury was wrong and that the fire was set on their land?

I just said in the previous post that I think the evidence is clear that the Hammonds started a back burn on Federal property. It's difficult to have a conversation with someone that doesn't even read the posts they're responding to.


The link you provided says nothing about this individual case BTW.

The link I posted gives the Hammond's motive for the heinous crime of setting a controlled back burn for fire control to save their Ranch,after decades of poor Federal land Management practices have created dangerous conditions.



It is hard to gather evidence of poaching on Federal land if some scumbag burns the land where the evidence would be. Criminals often use arson to cover their crimes and destroy evidence,

Right. We're supposed to believe that They were too lazy to track a couple of deer, so they went to the extent of setting a controlled burn and then putting it out to cover their tracks and then called up the BLM to let them know about it?

If you believe that, you'll swallow anything the government feeds you. It's obviously propaganda

UncaRastus
01-24-2016, 03:40 PM
Mike, my post was in reference to something that I posted awhile back, about clearing off a slope on my property. It was an 'inside' joke.

MikeKerriii
01-24-2016, 04:07 PM
The link I posted gives the Hammond's motive for the heinous crime of setting a controlled back burn for fire control to save their Ranch,after decades of poor Federal land Management practices have created dangerous conditions.




Right. We're supposed to believe that They were too lazy to track a couple of deer, so they went to the extent of setting a controlled burn and then putting it out to cover their tracks and then called up the BLM to let them know about it?

If you believe that, you'll swallow anything the government feeds you. It's obviously propagandathe link you posted has nothing at lall to do with the Hammond;s crimes, And they were not setting the fire to poach deer they were w set it to cover up poaching, at least according to witnesses.

Again do you have ANY evidence that it was a controlled burn that started on the Hammond's property at all? So far you have failed to come up with anything except the excuse the criminals gave. . I keep asking why you believe these criminals were innocent but you can't provide a single bit of evidence that applies to their case.

If you are going to lie at least try to make the lies credible.

Rainmaker
01-24-2016, 04:11 PM
Harney County Fire Chief Resigns after FBI agents Caught posing As Militia and harassing locals At town Armory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB6m7x3QDAg

MikeKerriii
01-25-2016, 01:30 AM
Harney County Fire Chief Resigns after FBI agents Caught posing As Militia and harassing locals At town Armory

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SB6m7x3QDAg

So you don't hv ave any evidence that says they were wrongly convicted of intentional arson.

What is wrong with the FBI wanting to infiltrate a group of armed nut-bags and who are committing felonies on a regular basis, After all doing so is part of the FBI's job.

Rainmaker
01-25-2016, 02:23 AM
the link you posted has nothing at lall to do with the Hammond;s crimes, And they were not setting the fire to poach deer they were w set it to cover up poaching, at least according to witnesses.

Again do you have ANY evidence that it was a controlled burn that started on the Hammond's property at all? So far you have failed to come up with anything except the excuse the criminals gave. . I keep asking why you believe these criminals were innocent but you can't provide a single bit of evidence that applies to their case.

If you are going to lie at least try to make the lies credible.

Holy shit, Did your mother drop you on your head ? Are you retarded or just playing around?

Let me post it for you AGAIN for the 3rd time.

I'll even put it in Red text, bolded and underlined this time (since you seem to like that)

I think the evidence is clear that the Hammonds started a back burn ON FEDERAL PROPERTY to save their ranch because, the Feds have too much land for them to effectively manage.

MikeKerriii
01-25-2016, 04:12 AM
Holy shit, Did your mother drop you on your head ? Are you retarded or just playing around?

Let me post it for you AGAIN for the 3rd time.

I'll even put it in Red text, bolded and underlined this time (since you seem to like that)

I think the evidence is clear that the Hammonds started a back burn ON FEDERAL PROPERTY to save their ranch because, the Feds have too much land for them to effectively manage.

So you are guessing and pulling thiongs out of your rear-end, Not to mention changing your story, about it being set on their land and getting out of control. If they set the fire on Federal and as you NOW say they committed felony arson on federal property. I will ask again what evince do you have that they did not commit the crime they were accused of, so far you have provided noting even related to their guilt in this case. S There was evidence that they did commit the crime including eyewitness testimony.


But you still have provided NO evidence that the fire was out of control, perhaps becasue the only evidence to support you case exists in your imagination. Nothing in that link you posted says why and where they set the fire. No matter how much you want it to be otherwise that links connection to this case is delusional.

Rainmaker
01-25-2016, 02:10 PM
So you are guessing and pulling thiongs out of your rear-end, Not to mention changing your story, about it being set on their land and getting out of control.

Rainmaker used to think you were just a blind,deaf, mute with 3 fingers and no opposable thumbs and typing on a broken typewriter.

Now we can add "with no English Comprehension skills" to the list.

There's no point in continuing the "he said she said" ad nauseam debate.

If you can't even be bothered to read the posts that you're responding to, then at least Go back and re-read post #33 of this thread. It was Made in reply to you on 5 Jan.

Government overreach is the issue they are protesting. This BLM land grab has been going on all over the West for 25+ years. There are no Political solutions.

I don't necessarily agree that this is a good place for the wingnuts to make a stand. But, If they didn't do this, then most of the country wouldn't even be hearing about it.

To help you wrap your mind around it, Think of it as when the Black EBT recipients (that are getting free taxpayer funded College educations and lowered admission standards) stage a sit-in protest on university (state) property to demand the removal of a Thomas Jefferson statue or that they be given a "safe space" by Erasing White people's names off of buildings.

Or you can just keep bloviating the " Racist Right wing extremist meme" like the rest of the Obama Cock Gobbling, Self-hating, Liberal White Socialists.

Rainmaker
01-25-2016, 02:38 PM
What is wrong with the FBI wanting to infiltrate a group of armed nut-bags and who are committing felonies on a regular basis, After all doing so is part of the FBI's job.

The MSM narrative that they have zero local support is false...

But Yes, I am fully aware of the methods in which ALL of these various protest movements are being infiltrated.

But, rather than disguising themselves as rednecks and Harassing and threatening local townspeople, I think the Feds efforts at subverting the US Constitution would be better served by......Hmmmm...I don't know....maybe..... CUTTING OFF THE POWER, WATER AND MAIL DELIVERY TO THE DAMN BUILDING???!!!!

UncaRastus
01-25-2016, 04:22 PM
Rainydude,

I think that your idea is so crazy, that it might work!

MikeKerriii
01-26-2016, 06:06 PM
Rainmaker used to think you were just a blind,deaf, mute with 3 fingers and no opposable thumbs and typing on a broken typewriter.

Now we can add "with no English Comprehension skills" to the list.

There's no point in continuing the "he said she said" ad nauseam debate.

If you can't even be bothered to read the posts that you're responding to, then at least Go back and re-read post #33 of this thread. It was Made in reply to you on 5 Jan.

Government overreach is the issue they are protesting. This BLM land grab has been going on all over the West for 25+ years. There are no Political solutions.

I don't necessarily agree that this is a good place for the wingnuts to make a stand. But, If they didn't do this, then most of the country wouldn't even be hearing about it.

To help you wrap your mind around it, Think of it as when the Black EBT recipients (that are getting free taxpayer funded College educations and lowered admission standards) stage a sit-in protest on university (state) property to demand the removal of a Thomas Jefferson statue or that they be given a "safe space" by Erasing White people's names off of buildings.

Or you can just keep bloviating the " Racist Right wing extremist meme" like the rest of the Obama Cock Gobbling, Self-hating, Liberal White Socialists.

So you are omitting that you have no evidence at all to support that they did not commit arson. Is that why you are changing issues? Very little of the refuge was EVER private land and a majority of what wast was was sold to the Feds over 80 years ago quite willingly. The majority of it was never even land under State authority at any time

These are just criminal thugs who need to me removed from federal property, tried then to spend the remainder of their days in Federal penitentiaries. The Bundy's are just a out to steal public lands for private use

WFT does your little racist rant at the end have to do with this situation? They are into related in any way.

Rainmaker
01-26-2016, 09:08 PM
So you are omitting that you have no evidence at all to support that they did not commit arson.

Jesus. Do you ever Stop squawking like an annoying Parrot? Maybe the 4th times a Charm ....

I think the evidence is clear THAT THE HAMMONDS STARTED A BACK BURN ON FEDERAL PROPERTY

Ok Nelson?... Polly want a cracker?

Now, Anyone that's ever worked on a farm knows that controlled burns are necessary for all kinds of reasons (e.g. clearing ditches for irrigation, getting rid of invasive weeds, revitalizing Fields and Pastures).

You can Learn more about it here: http://www.smokeybear.com/prescribed-fires.asp

SO, Under the Law singned in 1978, the BLM was supposed to manage the lands and make feasible improvements.

The problem is they don't really care about the environment. It's just a cover for a land grab, to create a Federal Monopoly on Natural resources.

The Feds control too much land and the overgrowth creates Dangerous Situations for everyone around them.

Have you ever seen a Fucking Wild Fire? It's Not Good.

Would you risk trespassing on "Federal land" to remove an unsafe situation that threatened destroying your home and Killing Your Family? I know I would.

Rainmaker
01-26-2016, 09:17 PM
was sold to the Feds over 80 years ago quite willingly.

The Bundy's are descended from pioneering homesteaders that were farming the land before the establishment of the State of Nevada.

Bundy has offered to pay fees to the state of Nevada because, that's who they had an agreement for grazing rights with for generations before the BLM existed.


The Bundy's are just a out to steal public lands for private use.

It's ok. I don't mind if they use my land. Grass grows back.

Anyway, I'd rather it be used by some American citizens instead of to enrich Harry Reid Bunkerville LLC and the Chinese Business Interests that Bribed him.


These are just criminal thugs who need to me removed from federal property, tried then to spend the remainder of their days in Federal penitentiaries.

Maybe they may try cutting off the power and water and stop delivering care packages instead?

UncaRastus
01-27-2016, 03:50 PM
...or maybe stop some of them, have a shootout, and kill the spokesperson, and capture The Bundy?

waveshaper2
01-27-2016, 03:52 PM
...or maybe stop some of them, have a shootout, and kill the spokesperson, and capture The Bundy?

Things aren't looking good for the Al-Bundadi militia/freeloaders and their American style Caliphate aspirations.

UncaRastus
01-27-2016, 04:09 PM
Here I was ready to sit down and watch the new Lincoln County War, transplanted to The Burns/Haney County War, on the news. I had my popcorn all ready to make, a nice soda standing by, and this had to happen before I got up.

Is there another William Bonney waiting in the backcountry, ready to take on the FBI/Sheriff, for shooting his best friend, who never hurt anybody, Finicum?

OK, this dog (the militia still in the wildlife center) might still have some fight in it. Or maybe it will turn into a chihuahua, and not fight anymore.

Maybe there is still something to watch on the tube. Or maybe I should saddle up my hoss, and ride over to watch this thing. Probably not, though. It is still winter time. And it's a far piece of riding to do.

Editorial correction: It is called The Sagebrush Rebellion. The editorial staff (which is me), is wondering how the people that are rebelling is going to dump cases of coffee into the ocean, as a show of Rebel sentiments.

This being the latest uprising in the decades old Sagebrush Rebellion, well ... it ain't over until it's over.

UncaRastus
01-27-2016, 04:11 PM
Is there anybody that reads this, that has the first name of William, and has served or is serving in the USN?

Come on! I want a Billy the Squid, riding forth in his anger, ready to get retribution on these gov't people!!

Hint: If you are out there, Billy the Squid, make sure not to trust anyone named Pat Garrett. 'nuff said.

Hint: Pat Garrett, you might want to look for the ranch where a certain young lady name Paulita lives. Just saying.

Let the endgame begin!

Rainmaker
01-27-2016, 04:40 PM
Let the endgame begin!

Shot by police with his hands up??

#WASPlivesmatter!


...or maybe stop some of them, have a shootout, and kill the spokesperson, and capture The Bundy?

Well, There's that option.

Maybe next Black Jesus will order the FBI to set up a "traffic stop" to arrest Hillary?

MikeKerriii
01-27-2016, 06:28 PM
Shot by police with his hands up??

#WASPlivesmatter!

A armed terrorist , who bragged about diyng instead of being arrested get shot resisting a felony arrest He died of terminals stupidity or suicide by cop. Even "Militia" members who were there called Bullshit on the hands up lie. I reget his death as much as I do the deaths of the San Bernardino terrorists

Rainmaker
01-27-2016, 06:36 PM
A armed terrorist , who bragged about diyng instead of being arrested get shot resisting a felony arrest He died of terminals stupidity or suicide by cop. Even "Militia" members who were there called Bullshit on the hands up lie. I reget his death as much as I do the deaths of the San Bernardino terrorists



We haven't seen the bodycam yet so how do you know? (Other than taking the fbi's word for it).

It is safe to assume that Black Jesus did order them to wear body-cams for everyone's safety right?

MikeKerriii
01-27-2016, 06:50 PM
We haven't seen the bodycam yet so how do you know? (Other than taking the fbi's word for it)

We have eye witness statements from militia, members in the car. The parts of about him Being an armed terrorist, and pledging not to be taken alive are very well documented .

zI think they did a great job taking down 8 terrorists with only one terrorist casualty and no casualties in law enforcement.

Weren't you the one defending pumping rounds into a obviously unarmed man who was fleeing quite recently?

UncaRastus
01-27-2016, 07:14 PM
Two casualties. One shot, or injured by shrapnel, not killed, one shot, and killed.

Merriam Webster - Define casualty: a person who is hurt or killed during an accident, war, etc.

Rainmaker
01-27-2016, 07:52 PM
We have eye witness statements from militia, members in the car.

Who has eye witness statements? The FBI?? Aren't you at least going to post the "RawStory" from the former Soviet that runs your favorite Website?


I reget his death as much as I do the deaths of the San Bernardino terrorists

Of course you do..... Typical proggie logic...... lets lump them in with the Paki Whabbists who, killed and wounded dozens of people that threw them a baby shower, with a bunch of rural white guys staging a sit in on a vacant Bird sanctuary, who hurt nobody.


The parts of about him Being an armed terrorist

Actually, They were charged with conspiracy to impede federal officers, Not with terrorism.

You're probably thinking of the Hammonds that were charged as terrorists for starting a controlled burn and letting their cows eat some "Government owned" grass.

By the way carrying a long gun openly is legal in Oregon.


Weren't you the one defending pumping rounds into a obviously unarmed man who was fleeing quite recently?

Yeah Ok, Mike Brown was fleeing. The best part about this shit show, is going to be calling you out on your hypocrisy, the next time that you fall all over yourself crying about "murder" after some gangbanger hoodrat gets smoked.

Rainmaker
01-27-2016, 08:21 PM
Merriam Webster - Define casualty: a person who is hurt or killed during an accident, war, etc.

Words mean things Unca...........Those pesky 'Ammonites' could've saved themselves a lot of trouble by contacting Rainmaker for an esoteric reading, before running off 1/2 cocked and taking over the Malheur Bird sanctuary.


French to English translation of Malheur

Malheur in English

misfortune, misadventure, infelicity; woe, bad luck, adversity; trouble, bale, bane; curse, grief; illness

Dictionary source: Babylon-FrenchEnglish Dictionary

MikeKerriii
01-27-2016, 10:26 PM
Who has eye witness statements? The FBI?? Aren't you at least going to post the "RawStory" from the former Soviet that runs your favorite Website?
One of your friends the terrorists https://www.facebook.com/mark.mcconnell.127648/videos/10154667085229762/



Of course you do..... Typical proggie logic...... lets lump them in with the Paki Whabbists who, killed and wounded dozens of people that threw them a baby shower, with a bunch of rural white guys staging a sit in on a vacant Bird sanctuary, who hurt nobody. An armed anti-american terrost dies, I won't weep.




You're probably thinking of the Hammonds that were charged as terrorists for starting a controlled burn and letting their cows eat some "Government owned" grass. No Just thugs convicted of intentions arson,serving thier time as the law required






Yeah Ok, Mike Brown was fleeing. The best part about this shit show, is going to be calling you out on your hypocrisy, the next time that you fall all over yourself crying about "murder" after some gangbanger hoodrat gets smoked. I Was talking about the guy murdered in South Carolina, You defended the slime that shot him in the back as he was running away. Not a "gangbanger" or a "hoodrat" even to a open bigot like you.

MikeKerriii
01-27-2016, 10:28 PM
Two casualties. One shot, or injured by shrapnel, not killed, one shot, and killed.

Merriam Webster - Define casualty: a person who is hurt or killed during an accident, war, etc.

I said no casualties in law enforcement one Criminal was killed and one wounded.

Rainmaker
01-27-2016, 11:04 PM
One of your friends the terrorists

Rainmaker don't have a Facebook account. so we really can't be "friends" but, it strikes me as odd that the FBI are letting "terrorists" make Facebook posts while in custody.



I Was talking about the guy murdered in South Carolina, You defended the slime that shot him in the back as he was running away. Not a "gangbanger" or a "hoodrat" even to a open bigot like you.

Oh you mean the crackhead that was kicked out of the military, had a rap sheet as long as your arm and was running from the police,because he was a deadbeat Dad that would rather smoke crack than support his kids?

Last I heard,The accused cop in question is in solitary confinement pending trial and the crackhead's family already got paid $6.5 Million in exchange for not burning down the town. so, I'm not really sure what your point is.

MikeKerriii
01-28-2016, 04:02 AM
Rainmaker don't have a Facebook account. so we really can't be "friends" but, it strikes me as odd that the FBI are letting "terrorists" make Facebook posts while in custody.




Oh you mean the crackhead that was kicked out of the military, had a rap sheet as long as your arm and was running from the police,because he was a deadbeat Dad that would rather smoke crack than support his kids?

Last I heard,The accused cop in question is in solitary confinement pending trial and the crackhead's family already got paid $6.5 Million in exchange for not burning down the town. so, I'm not really sure what your point is.My point is that you went over the top defending the murderus cop And like now try to make the victim seem like the problem not the cold blooded killer with a badge. But you are upset at a thug who refused to be taken alive being shot resisting a his arrest for a major felony.

WFT do the victims in SC priors have to do with whether it was murder or not? Are they relevant in any way outside of justifying your bigotry?

UncaRastus
01-28-2016, 01:53 PM
copy of statement

UncaRastus
01-28-2016, 02:01 PM
'zI think they did a great job taking down 8 terrorists with only one terrorist casualty and no casualties in law enforcement.'


'I said no casualties in law enforcement one Criminal was killed and one wounded.'

What you said was that there 1 terrorist casualty. I quoted what Merriam Webster said what a casualty was, and you came back with the second statement.

Merriam Webster: define casualty: a person who is hurt or killed during an accident, war, etc.

One killed, the other hit by shrapnel = 2 militia casualties.

MikeKerriii
01-28-2016, 02:12 PM
'zI think they did a great job taking down 8 terrorists with only one terrorist casualty and no casualties in law enforcement.'


'I said no casualties in law enforcement one Criminal was killed and one wounded.'

What you said was that there 1 terrorist casualty. I quoted what Merriam Webster said what a casualty was, and you came back with the second statement.

Merriam Webster: define casualty: a person who is hurt or killed during an accident, war, etc.

One killed, the other hit by shrapnel = 2 militia casualties.

I apologize for my lack of understanding, there were two "militia" casualties.

By the way: three more of the Criminals have been arrested today, the good news keeps on coming.

UncaRastus
01-28-2016, 02:43 PM
Apology accepted, Mike.

So, 3 more?

I remember the deal in Waco, Tx. The news was all over that. Maybe it isn't all that hard to find stories on this online, but the news coverage for the TV is really downplaying this.

Do you think that the US gov't has told the TV news people not to play this up, in a try at lessening the amount of people getting twisted out of shape? I do think that 24/7 coverage of Waco brought about a huge division of the American people, which I believe is the reason that the TV news is rather sparse, in comparison.

Rainmaker
01-28-2016, 03:10 PM
. But you are upset at a thug who refused to be taken alive being shot resisting a his arrest for a major felony.

I'm not upset. Play stupid games.... win stupid prizes.

I said it was a bad place for the wing-nuts to make a stand. But, that's not to say their grievances did not have merit.

And, I'm just pointing out your hypocrisy and asking some simple questions, Like who killed the Grandpa? Was it an FBI agent or a contractor or was it an Oregon state police officer?

when do you think the Feds will be releasing the video and audio corroborating their version of the story?

Do you think they'll soon be publishing the name of the shooter?

where is the Outrage from George Soros and the rest of the Dual Citizen Foreign Oligarchs that are funding the Black lies matter movement? So that Hoodrats can cause tens of millions of property damage destroying cities built for them by the American taxpayer.



. WFT do the victims in SC priors have to do with whether it was murder or not? Are they relevant in any way outside of justifying your bigotry?

The point is this Mike.... when the Cokehead, deadbeat Dad, convicted felon, went for the cops tazer and then resisted arrest, his risk of getting shot went up exponentially. If there can be any silver lining, it's this..... at least his kids will get to eat now that their papa's not out blowing all their Welfare money on Crack.

But, Apparently you chose not to see that.....Because you are intent on justifying your obvious BIGOTRY against White people.

Rainmaker
01-28-2016, 03:25 PM
I remember the deal in Waco, Tx. The news was all over that. Maybe it isn't all that hard to find stories on this online, but the news coverage for the TV is really downplaying this.

Do you think that the US gov't has told the TV news people not to play this up, in a try at lessening the amount of people getting twisted out of shape? I do think that 24/7 coverage of Waco brought about a huge division of the American people, which I believe is the reason that the TV news is rather sparse, in comparison.

They don't want people to start asking questions about the backstory......

That the reason the federal government wants to force the ranchers off their lands all over the west, is because, they want to Federalize it and then lease out the mining rights to foreign entities.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-sues-treasury-for-records-on-hillary-clinton-russian-uranium-scandal/


They've found out that Some people are not for sale.

MikeKerriii
01-28-2016, 04:02 PM
Apology accepted, Mike.

So, 3 more?

I remember the deal in Waco, Tx. The news was all over that. Maybe it isn't all that hard to find stories on this online, but the news coverage for the TV is really downplaying this.

Do you think that the US gov't has told the TV news people not to play this up, in a try at lessening the amount of people getting twisted out of shape? I do think that 24/7 coverage of Waco brought about a huge division of the American people, which I believe is the reason that the TV news is rather sparse, in comparison. I think the reasons it is not getting a lot of news are the fact that no children are involved, The victim was an armed nutcase, and a criminal resting arrest.

Cases of Cops killing deranged criminals who are attacking the police normally don't get a lot of news. If there is little public controversy and no sympathetic victim there will not be a much coverage. I think the media like most of the public is just a shacking their heads at the stupidity of the criminals, and outside of the fringes not giving much of a damn abut the nutcases involved, or a Rainmaker puts it " Play stupid games win stupid prizes"

What case can you find of a criminal resting arrest, who also had said he would not be taken alive, raising much outrage?

MikeKerriii
01-28-2016, 04:05 PM
They don't want people to start asking questions about the backstory......

That the reason the federal government wants to force the ranchers off their lands all over the west, is because, they want to Federalize it and then lease out the mining rights to foreign entities.

http://www.judicialwatch.org/press-room/press-releases/judicial-watch-sues-treasury-for-records-on-hillary-clinton-russian-uranium-scandal/


They've found out that Some people are not for sale.

You need thicker tin-foil if you actually believe any of that silly BS,

UncaRastus
01-28-2016, 04:21 PM
Calm down, guys. Right now, I am sending out some USA Conservation agents, armed with dart guns full of bear sleepy time potion darts, to make y'all compliant.

But really, come on. I did some work for the BLM, and I do have some concerns with that agency. See? I can see both sides of the coin.

Now go arm up some drones. I need to see the civilian body count, to make me feel better. Um, OK. Don't do that.

Take a chill pill, men. Relax. Sing Kumbiya with me.

There. Now we can all be friends again.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YPnGp1QZbxM

Rainmaker
01-28-2016, 04:53 PM
Cases of Cops killing deranged criminals who are attacking the police normally don't get a lot of news.

Bullshit. Normally, the media would be all over a story like this, like stink on shit.

Take For example Christopher Dorner.....The LAPD Affirmative Action hire, who was fired (after making repeated false 'Racism" allegations about his co-workers) and then went on Rampage Killing 5 people.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christopher_Dorner_shootings_and_manhunt

Remember, How The media was all over it Mike? 24-7 Nonstop.

The LAPD even went so far as to announce that they'd reopened his grievance case, in the middle of the manhunt..... just to make sure the public was assured they hadn't treated this Black Psychopath "unfairly".

http://edition.cnn.com/2013/02/09/us/lapd-attacks/index.html

Guess you forgot about that.

The fact that they've pretty much put this Rancher standoff stuff on ignore should be a red flag that they don't want people to actually question the official narrative.


Now, I don't mind your Bigotry against White people so much Nelson..... You're entitled to your Opinion. But, your critical thinking skills are atrocious. Stop acting like a government programmed slave.

Rainmaker
01-28-2016, 05:00 PM
You need thicker tin-foil if you actually believe any of that silly BS,

here you go Mike. Maybe you and Russian Clinton donors over at Uranium One can be facebook pals.

https://www.facebook.com/Uranium-One-1683613478585571/timeline

UncaRastus
01-28-2016, 05:00 PM
Raindude, please stop. There are two sides to every coin. Do you think that you are going to convince Mike that you are correct?

Mike, the same thing.

Trying to budge each others beliefs only makes the rift wider.

Kumbiya! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo9AH4vG2wA

Rainmaker
01-28-2016, 05:13 PM
Raindude, please stop. There are two sides to every coin. Do you think that you are going to convince Mike that you are correct?

Mike, the same thing.

Trying to budge each others beliefs only makes the rift wider.

Kumbiya! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo9AH4vG2wA

#CRAZY MiDDLE-AGEd WHITE RANCHERS WITH 11 KIDS +RECEIVEING FREE GRAZING RIGHTS LIVES MATTER!#FREE AMMON BUNDY!

UncaRastus
01-28-2016, 05:15 PM
'CRAZY MiDDLE-AGEd WHITE RANCHERS WITH 11 KIDS +RECEIVEING FREE GRAZING RIGHTS LIVES MATTER!#FREE AMMON BUNDY!'

KUMBIYA!!!

MikeKerriii
01-28-2016, 05:16 PM
here you go Mike. Maybe you and Russian Clinton donors over at Uranium One can be facebook pals.

https://www.facebook.com/Uranium-One-1683613478585571/timeline

Was that post supposed to mean something to sane people?

Rainmaker
01-28-2016, 07:51 PM
Raindude, please stop. There are two sides to every coin. Do you think that you are going to convince Mike that you are correct?

Mike, the same thing.

Trying to budge each others beliefs only makes the rift wider.

Kumbiya! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo9AH4vG2wA

You know unca, having a party alone is fun. But, it's always more fun with someone else.

Things have been slow ever since all the Lefty's ran away.

Now Rainmaker knows how Der Trumper must feel broadcasting the awesome truth alone, while all the homos are high fiveing on another channel that no one's even gonna be watching. Nomsayin?

UncaRastus
01-28-2016, 08:03 PM
kumbiya!!!

UncaRastus
01-28-2016, 08:19 PM
I adjure you, try to get along with Mike!

OK. Here's something to argue about, with me. Your mama is so fat, she left the house in high heels, and came back wearing flip flops!

Now it is your turn. In case you are already offended, then change the 'your' into 'my'.

Rainmaker
01-28-2016, 08:23 PM
kumbiya!!!

Kumbiya?? What the hell are you getting philosophical ahead of the surgery?

Don't go all soft on us now devil dog..... my old man used to say... Salt is a preservative!

UncaRastus
01-28-2016, 10:03 PM
Rainydays, thanks for the pep talk on not going sentimental. However, there ain't never not no sentimentalism found in my neighborhood, nohow.

What I think is going on is that I have grown used to being on tho fentanyl pain patch, and stuff just flies out of my head, that must be captured in this forum.

OK, not so much. I thought about the most different to y'alls type of expressing your political leanings, in here, and I felt that it must be included, just to catch you off guard.

And the trip to see the surgeon is just a trip to see a surgeon. There is no planning for an actual surgery, until the fat lady sings. I have seen a picture of the surgeon, and she is, um, never going to be accused of being being bulimic.

And also:

Your mama is so fat, she has mass whether the Higgs Boson exists or not.

Take that! Or go ahead and replace 'your' with 'my'.

And I am not so sure if the mama joke is either syntactically or semantically correct, but you get the point.

Your turn!

MikeKerriii
01-28-2016, 10:09 PM
It looks like more loons are heading to Oregon, the time to peaceably force the FBI to leave state. IS that not the definition of planning to commit suicide by cop?


http://crooksandliars.com/2016/01/yall-qaeda-may-not-be-finished-oregon-yet

UncaRastus
01-28-2016, 10:38 PM
Some people think that the gov't can be thwarted by them showing up. Sadly, I think that they are in for a world of hurt, if push comes to shove.

Just as in a motorcycle gang, or a neonazi group, there is always going to be someone with a weapon that will not let someone with far more intelligence lead that group in a peaceful demonstration. That person could turn it from a peaceful demonstration into a live shooter incidence.

Not 100% sure of that, but it is a situation that needs careful handling.

Hopefully, they have let the less 'level headed' people stay back at home. There is always some nut that thinks he is going to lead 'The Revolution'.

Then it may become a free for all. And that is what some of those people are thirsting for.

MikeKerriii
01-28-2016, 11:02 PM
Some people think that the gov't can be thwarted by them showing up. Sadly, I think that they are in for a world of hurt, if push comes to shove.

Just as in a motorcycle gang, or a neonazi group, there is always going to be someone with a weapon that will not let someone with far more intelligence lead that group in a peaceful demonstration. That person could turn it from a peaceful demonstration into a live shooter incidence.

Not 100% sure of that, but it is a situation that needs careful handling.

Hopefully, they have let the less 'level headed' people stay back at home. There is always some nut that thinks he is going to lead 'The Revolution'.

Then it may become a free for all. And that is what some of those people are thirsting for. I don't think there is much hope for level headed thinking in a group that thinks they can peaceably force the FBI to leave the State of Oregon. I not sure that there is even much sanity in anyone that would remain a member of a group that far into cloud-cuckoo land.

Hopefully they will call of this insanity, if not I hope that the fact that everyone that interferes with a Federal agent at work is arrested on felony charges will give them pause before one of the clowns commits an act of terminal stupidity.

MikeKerriii
01-29-2016, 01:27 AM
The video of the shooting has been released the people that sad he was kneeling are liars, that ones that said his hands were up when shot are liars. This proves, once again, that police being recorded at work is a very good idea.

BTW he was not shot by the FBI

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/2016/01/28/fbi-releases-video-shooting-death-oregon-protester/79490322/

MikeKerriii
01-29-2016, 10:29 AM
This is what scum are left at the refuge

http://www.spockosbrain.com/2016/01/29/its-time-to-prosecute-people-making-true-threats/

That rant alone should have them in jail for a decade or more

UncaRastus
01-29-2016, 02:10 PM
Mike, I worked for the BLM, for 6 months, to do some fence repair. So, yeah, I saw how the fencing was extensive. And I also ran across some of the fencing having been cut.

So, do I go on here and defend the BLM and get outraged?

Sort of, OK, I see the BLM's point of view. Also, I can see the reasoning that some ranchers use, when they cut the wire. There is a lot of land that is not used for anything, with a lot of grazing grass just standing there, growing up, then dying off, year after year, making a lot of BLM land very much waiting for a fire that could be prevented by allowing the ranchers some leeway to allow their cattle onto that land.

Taking a wildlife refuge to get some guys out of prison, after those very same guys said not to even try to get them out by taking that wildlife center was pretty much about as stupid a move as could have been made.

Putting some loud mouthed 'patriots' in there who never thought beyond, 'Woohoo! Now we gets a big shootout, standing up for some guys that really wanted to just go to prison to get their time over, but what do they know, send some ice cream, please'...

I believe that citizens have the right to belong to militias. To use their militia in such a manner, taking over a wildlife center, to free some guys that didn't want them to do what they did? To threaten the lives of police, sheriffs, and the FBI, and having firepower to back up their threats ...

How did this help the guys that are now in prison?

A lot of people that are in the different militias did not show up, because I think that most of the militia members know that there are splinter groups that end up making all of the militias look bad, and that this was one bunch of guys that thought that they could make their point and get the guys out of prison, and end up looking like heroes.

Mike, do you remember how, back in the late '60s and early '70s, how there was a bunch of people in the armed forces that smoked reefer, did heroin, hung around in gangs, and were very embarrassing to the services?

Any large uber group can be invaded by people that are deleterious to that group. There are still some people in the service that belong to neonazi organizations. People that join to get some skillsets that are useful to their gangs, once they are done with their enlistments.

Myself, I think that I see the same sort of bad apples in some of the militia groups. Not every militia wants to go ahead and become martyrs for 'patriotism', for a reason that was that was dead on arrival. Some of the militias are bad. Some of the services contain some pretty bad guys.

And this 'takeover for the people' just proved that some of the militias can be pretty unhinged. Having some close relatives to those imprisoned in that group was the catalyzing factor which got this group of wannabe Saviours of the Republic in, way beyond their depth.

Yesterday, my wife went to get two year tags for her SUV. She was told that we owe last years taxes on that SUV. We don't, since here in Missouri, if a vehicle is gotten during the past year, no taxes are owed on that vehicle, for last year.

What I am thinking is that we have to start a militia, and everyone in that militia has to sit in that vehicle, fully armed, until the state of Missouri relents, and lets Angie get the tags.

That'll work, right?

Rainmaker
01-29-2016, 03:20 PM
This is what scum are left at the refuge

http://www.spockosbrain.com/2016/01/29/its-time-to-prosecute-people-making-true-threats/

That rant alone should have them in jail for a decade or more

They're still posting on social media....so apparently the lights are still on?

Obvious propaganda.,,,,There's No way in Hell either of those 2 ever worked a day on Cattle Ranch.

The power of media to shape public perception can never be overstated.

Rainmaker
01-29-2016, 03:50 PM
Yesterday, my wife went to get two year tags for her SUV. She was told that we owe last years taxes on that SUV. We don't, since here in Missouri, if a vehicle is gotten during the past year, no taxes are owed on that vehicle, for last year.

What I am thinking is that we have to start a militia, and everyone in that militia has to sit in that vehicle, fully armed, until the state of Missouri relents, and lets Angie get the tags.

That'll work, right?

Unca,

here's a couple lessons Rainmaker quickly garnered from the whole Malheur shit show video he just watched, that I think you can apply to your righteous cause.

1. Don't plan a 50 mile night movement through "enemy territory" to discuss it with the Jackboots at the DMV.

2. If you somehow forget rule #1 and wind up getting stopped by the Feds and decide to go out in a blaze of glory, you need to A.......... Make sure your sidearm is on your dominant side for quicker draw or better yet B......... use your long gun 1st and come out of the truck from the get go Raining lead on them Nazi Browshirts.

Because, In Rainmaker's limited experience, The Cops almost never fall for the old "fake surrender, hands up don't shoot, reach for the concealed weapon" move.

UncaRastus
01-29-2016, 04:38 PM
We live a couple of blocks from the tag office. And also the tax office. One block from a convenience store, so I can sneak there for milk and burritos.

My wife is sitting in the SUV, and she has all of the weapons that she needs. Of course, I didn't issue weapons with ammo. Angie might hurt herself!

Or shoot me for getting her the wrong burrito.

I am sitting in the living room, so that I can watch the news for later developments. That is very important, don't you know.

She can't drive anywhere, because I have the keys, since I might go to the post office sometime between now and next week.

ANGIE! Stick up for your rights! I'll bring you the expired carton of milk! I support you!

Meh. Gunsmoke is coming on, so I have to vacate the MTF for now.

Remember the Alamo, Angie! Uh, the Maine! Whatever.

Rainmaker
01-29-2016, 04:45 PM
One block from a convenience store, so I can sneak there for milk and burritos.

.

Good thinking......Amateurs talk tactics, but professionals study logistics!

UncaRastus
01-29-2016, 04:51 PM
Don't forget the fact that I am watching the news! Well, when Gunsmoke is over. Which will take awhile, seeing as to how Gunsmoke is on for 3 hours per day, in a mini marathon, weekdays.

So, I am gathering info! Yes! I am doing a recon mission, right from my recliner!

MikeKerriii
01-29-2016, 05:23 PM
Mike, I worked for the BLM, for 6 months, to do some fence repair. So, yeah, I saw how the fencing was extensive. And I also ran across some of the fencing having been cut.

So, do I go on here and defend the BLM and get outraged?

Sort of, OK, I see the BLM's point of view. Also, I can see the reasoning that some ranchers use, when they cut the wire. There is a lot of land that is not used for anything, with a lot of grazing grass just standing there, growing up, then dying off, year after year, making a lot of BLM land very much waiting for a fire that could be prevented by allowing the ranchers some leeway to allow their cattle onto that land.

Taking a wildlife refuge to get some guys out of prison, after those very same guys said not to even try to get them out by taking that wildlife center was pretty much about as stupid a move as could have been made.

Putting some loud mouthed 'patriots' in there who never thought beyond, 'Woohoo! Now we gets a big shootout, standing up for some guys that really wanted to just go to prison to get their time over, but what do they know, send some ice cream, please'...

I believe that citizens have the right to belong to militias. To use their militia in such a manner, taking over a wildlife center, to free some guys that didn't want them to do what they did? To threaten the lives of police, sheriffs, and the FBI, and having firepower to back up their threats ...

How did this help the guys that are now in prison?

A lot of people that are in the different militias did not show up, because I think that most of the militia members know that there are splinter groups that end up making all of the militias look bad, and that this was one bunch of guys that thought that they could make their point and get the guys out of prison, and end up looking like heroes.

Mike, do you remember how, back in the late '60s and early '70s, how there was a bunch of people in the armed forces that smoked reefer, did heroin, hung around in gangs, and were very embarrassing to the services?

Any large uber group can be invaded by people that are deleterious to that group. There are still some people in the service that belong to neonazi organizations. People that join to get some skillsets that are useful to their gangs, once they are done with their enlistments.

Myself, I think that I see the same sort of bad apples in some of the militia groups. Not every militia wants to go ahead and become martyrs for 'patriotism', for a reason that was that was dead on arrival. Some of the militias are bad. Some of the services contain some pretty bad guys.

And this 'takeover for the people' just proved that some of the militias can be pretty unhinged. Having some close relatives to those imprisoned in that group was the catalyzing factor which got this group of wannabe Saviours of the Republic in, way beyond their depth.

Yesterday, my wife went to get two year tags for her SUV. She was told that we owe last years taxes on that SUV. We don't, since here in Missouri, if a vehicle is gotten during the past year, no taxes are owed on that vehicle, for last year.

What I am thinking is that we have to start a militia, and everyone in that militia has to sit in that vehicle, fully armed, until the state of Missouri relents, and lets Angie get the tags.

That'll work, right?

I pretty much agree with you , but I think the decent, sane and honest in those militias are the rarities not the crazies.

I do remember those days in the mitary, but I blame them mostly on a population that hated the mitary, military members that were forced to enlist and a vile and idiotic war that almost all involved knew by them was lost but was still pointlessly eating up young kids like a meat-grinder.

UncaRastus
01-29-2016, 05:54 PM
I agree with you also, on the draftees, not being accepted back home, etc.. What I saw, though, was men that weren't drafted, getting high and mighty.

The USMC did a 1 year thing, using the draft. When I got in, all of those who had been drafted were long gone, unless they really liked being a Marine.

Pretty much all volunteers, in the Corps, after the draft had ended. And still, their were people getting stupid. Drugs? You bet! Poor attitudes? Yep. Doing everything to continue being as unrespectful as they thought that they could get away with.

I went to DI school in 1975. By the end of my enlistment, the stupidity pretty much dropped off.

One would think that, in a 100% voluntary status, that would have ended up much earlier.

MikeKerriii
01-29-2016, 06:37 PM
I agree with you also, on the draftees, not being accepted back home, etc.. What I saw, though, was men that weren't drafted, getting high and mighty.

The USMC did a 1 year thing, using the draft. When I got in, all of those who had been drafted were long gone, unless they really liked being a Marine.

Pretty much all volunteers, in the Corps, after the draft had ended. And still, their were people getting stupid. Drugs? You bet! Poor attitudes? Yep. Doing everything to continue being as unrespectful as they thought that they could get away with.

I went to DI school in 1975. By the end of my enlistment, the stupidity pretty much dropped off.

One would think that, in a 100% voluntary status, that would have ended up much earlier.

You have remember that enlistments in the USMC, and In the USAF were often not all that voluntarily, With a low number it was just choosing m witch service you would serve in not weather you would serve. We had may in the USAF who were there simply becasue they did not want to serve in the Army, and took it as the lesser of two evils.

The Draft is only good for providing cannon fodder, and a professional military doesn;'t think of it members as food for enemy guns.

Rainmaker
01-29-2016, 08:52 PM
Rainmaker has sneaky suspicion that this dispute may be about a little more than Grazing Rights and Turtles.
These ranchers must be sitting on a fortune.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHyZQrMZ7lA

MikeKerriii
01-29-2016, 09:37 PM
Rainmaker has sneaky suspicion that this dispute may be about a little more than Grazing Rights and Turtles.
These ranchers must be sitting on a fortune.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KHyZQrMZ7lA

A youtube video with no back up is your evidence? I have a sneaky suspicion that the folks that made the video are loons,

Rainmaker
01-30-2016, 01:22 AM
A youtube video with no back up is your evidence? I have a sneaky suspicion that the folks that made the video are loons,

Not evidence. Just information to supplement the media spin being put out. But, It is true that the video has not been vetted from a bastion of great journalism , like say a crooks and liars or spocko's brain.

But, The burns on those cows looked pretty real to a layman like myself.

Anyhow, do you think the video is staged or faked?

UncaRastus
01-30-2016, 03:44 PM
I know that it's BS. I have, many times, tipped a cow, to place a moulage on it, to fake gov't fires. Then I would get money from the gov't, for my poor burned cattle.

OK, not, I guess. I think that I dreamed that I was doing that.

Oh, bother.

I lived in Julian, Ca, for awhile, before I came out here. I went through a buttload of fires up there, in the San Diego mountains. That is why I moved. For some reason, I didn't like being evacuated from my house. I also don't much kindle to forest fires.

Go figure!

Some of the fires were set as planned fires, which out of control. Badly out of control.

The last fire that I went through, I went about a mile away from my house, into town, to help a buddy that owned a restaurant, to move some of his ovens and mixers and stuff out. I was not allowed to return. As in, there were so many cops and sheriffs on the highway that ran about 100 yards aways from my house, just to turn back residents returning to their property, while the fire raged on.

I had to get to my house, to protect it from the fire, and from some sneaky dudes that were breaking into the abandoned houses. Since I had an idea that I would have to sneak on through, so that when I went to town, I was wearing my cammo gear. I had some cammo face paint in my pockets, for just such a thing. Not that hard to figure out, beforehand, that I had to evade the lawdogs.

I got to my house, went up on the roof, and sprayed down live embers from the sky, and I soaked the neighbor's rooves down. Because I could feel the heat, and see the embers, directly above me, floating on down, I had to do that...

Half of Julian went up in flames. But not my neighbor's houses, nor did mine. The fire department never entered my neighborhood, to try to save anybodies house.

When this was all over, I left southern California. I sold my house for a gigantic increase, since half the town was burned, and the citizens were looking for houses to buy.

Still, yeah. Living up in Julian was an adventure. Fighting fires or watching them mercifully pass on by, from set fires that were used to burn out some area that was grown out of control, set by the gov'ts say so, what a rush. A bunch of rushes.

Whatever.

MikeKerriii
01-31-2016, 03:28 PM
Not evidence. Just information to supplement the media spin being put out. But, It is true that the video has not been vetted from a bastion of great journalism , like say a crooks and liars or spocko's brain.

But, The burns on those cows looked pretty real to a layman like myself.

Anyhow, do you think the video is staged or faked?

Who set the fires, why they were set and how the cows got burned is a matter of speculation in this case, Or In the case of those making the video a case of, what looks like, huffing paint fumes too long. The video is evidence that there was a fire nothing else

Rainmaker
02-06-2016, 05:48 PM
Haven't seen much "news" from the bird sanctuary terrorists lately. are the lights still on?

I've been thinking that next time instead of exercising their right to peaceably assemble and their right to bear arms, and handing out pocket sized constitutions, they'd be better off staging a "flash mob" on the closest Bass pro shop and looting it up BlackLivesMatters style.



http://safeshare.tv/w/FvVTVikOSz

retiredAFcivvy
02-06-2016, 06:20 PM
You probably won't hear too much more from the "body bag" proponents on here. They kinda achieved their objective.

MikeKerriii
02-07-2016, 03:16 AM
You probably won't hear too much more from the "body bag" proponents on here. They kinda achieved their objective.
The idiot committed either suicide by cop or died of sheer stupidity, They are more possibly terminal stupid fools still at the refuge. But they will probably quit and spend a few years, too few, in prison,

MikeKerriii
02-18-2016, 11:37 PM
It doesn't look like we will be seeing a third act from the Bundys, So far they are charged with enough crimes to keep them in jail for a long lifetime, and that doesn't include Oregon yet.

Their repeated statements that they don't relive that Federal courts have authority over them means bail is unlikely.


http://crooksandliars.com/2016/02/indictment-slaps-bundy-gang-16-felonies

Rainmaker
02-20-2016, 08:42 PM
It doesn't look like we will be seeing a third act from the Bundys, So far they are charged with enough crimes to keep them in jail for a long lifetime, and that doesn't include Oregon yet.

Their repeated statements that they don't relive that Federal courts have authority over them means bail is unlikely.


http://crooksandliars.com/2016/02/indictment-slaps-bundy-gang-16-felonies

Now they just know that guaranteeing your right to peaceably assemble (by exercising your right to bear arms) means nothing.....Unless you're willing to squeeze the trigger.

Rainmaker
10-28-2016, 03:40 PM
In "Shocking Defeat" For Prosecutors, Anti-Government Militant Leader Ammon Bundy And Six Followers Acquitted

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-10-28/shocking-defeat-prosecutors-anti-government-militant-leader-ammon-bundy-and-six-foll

There's been almost a complete mainstream media blackout of the trial. Since jury selections started back in September.

sparks82
10-28-2016, 04:18 PM
So it's okay for people to illegally take over government land but it's not okay for native people who own land to peacefully protest? That seems to be the message as the protesters at the pipeline are literally being attacked - and there's barely any media coverage of that either.

Good job to the prosecution on the Bundy case for letting that one slip by.

sandsjames
10-28-2016, 05:35 PM
So it's okay for people to illegally take over government land but it's not okay for native people who own land to peacefully protest? That seems to be the message as the protesters at the pipeline are literally being attacked - and there's barely any media coverage of that either.

Good job to the prosecution on the Bundy case for letting that one slip by.

Difference is that the pipeline protesters are blocking roads, highways, etc, and that is illegal. Once you start blocking traffic it's no longer "peaceful protesting".

sparks82
10-28-2016, 06:21 PM
Difference is that the pipeline protesters are blocking roads, highways, etc, and that is illegal. Once you start blocking traffic it's no longer "peaceful protesting".

Well I don't get to watch much news during the day and the only news I do see on the TVs at work is FoxNews it seems and they have done zero coverage on this pipeline protest. I always see freaking Trump's face up there when I glance over across the way.

It isn't showing up on the main pages of the news sites so I have to look it all up when I have time...

garhkal
10-28-2016, 06:26 PM
Difference is that the pipeline protesters are blocking roads, highways, etc, and that is illegal. Once you start blocking traffic it's no longer "peaceful protesting".

That plus bundy's team WAS taken after negotiations off the property. So far the cops have been reluctant to remove the natives protesting the pipeline (and especially now Al JackASSson has gotten involved)..


Well I don't get to watch much news during the day and the only news I do see on the TVs at work is FoxNews it seems and they have done zero coverage on this pipeline protest. I always see freaking Trump's face up there when I glance over across the way.

It isn't showing up on the main pages of the news sites so I have to look it all up when I have time...

Its like most every news channel. We could have a 8.5 earthquake wipe out Hawaai, and i still think all we would get is trump/clinton on the news shows.

sparks82
10-31-2016, 01:25 PM
All I had seen about it was what people were posting and showed up in my news feed. The primary person of my friends posting is my brother's girlfriend who is I guess part Native American? I'm not sure. She's like part native something, part Filipina and who knows what else. So I should have known any memes she posted were biased.

I've read some more and honestly we all know how things go. There are three sides to every story and the third side is the truth nestled within somewhere.

I have heard that the pipeline offered the tribe money but it wasn't enough for them so the pipeline is using an access route that has been used for decades. But Dakota Access said that they never offered them money.

Someone who is actually a member of the tribe and lives there talked to CNN and he said that a lot of them are tired of the protesters and really don't care about the pipeline. That the tribe had been invited to a hearing two years ago and they neglected to show up for it to voice concerns. If that's true you can't blame the system if you don't use it. He also said they have to drive 40 miles out of the way to get home because of police checkpoints and protesters blocking stuff. The guy said though that he will help people who are protesting especially when winter kicks in because most of them aren't from around there so they don't know how winters get up there.

Then I see stories about some protesters are shooting cops, throwing Molotov cocktails, burning stuff and blocking the highway? Squatting on privately owned land? That's not protesting. Those people deserve to be arrested.

Then people who are mad the Bundys got acquitted - well obviously the prosecution didn't present a strong enough case. That's how the justice system works. I guarantee the majority of these protesters who are arrested won't even see a trial. Their charges will likely get dropped or they get a fine or something depending on the charge. Like that one actress - I'm sure she'll get hers dropped.

I wouldn't be surprised if this isn't about anything more than money on both sides - the pipeline and the tribe. It seems at times that some of these tribes don't seem to care about land until the government is making money off it then suddenly it's "ancestral land" or "burial grounds."

garhkal
10-31-2016, 04:39 PM
Then I see stories about some protesters are shooting cops, throwing Molotov cocktails, burning stuff and blocking the highway? Squatting on privately owned land? That's not protesting. Those people deserve to be arrested.

Hence why a lot of us have railed against BLM and the like when THEY toss stuff at cops, 'peacefully protest' by occupying a freeway and the like..