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Rusty Jones
12-11-2015, 10:05 PM
Trump has hijacked the GOP and that’s bad news for Republican senators
By Shripal Shah

On Tuesday, Chuck Todd proclaimed that Donald Trump has “hijacked” the Republican Party. He was 100 percent right, and while that’s bad news for the party as a whole, it should be particularly troubling for vulnerable Republican senators who are already facing difficult paths to reelections next year.

Over the last six months of the Republican presidential primary, Trump has not only led in the polls, but he has completely dominated the presidential conversation. As a result you’ve seen other Republican hopefuls rush to stand with his controversial platform. Ideas like repealing birthright citizenship or attacking religious freedom are undoubtedly extreme, but in today’s GOP, they’re par for the course, and as presidential hopefuls have fallen in line with Trump on these and other issues, they’ve guaranteed that the Trump agenda will be on the ballot next November regardless of whether or not he is the party’s nominee.

Accepting that reality is critical to understanding just how bad 2015 has been for Republican senators running for reelection. They’ll now have to own Trump’s agenda when they face voters next year, especially since they’ve individually embraced Trump’s campaign and agenda. Sen. Pat Toomey’s (R-Pa.) campaign will benefit from a Pennsylvania GOP fundraiser. Sen. Kelly Ayotte (R-N.H.) has praised his candidacy as a “positive thing” for the party. Sen. Ron Johnson (R-Mich.) has boasted of channeling his inner Donald Trump on the campaign trail, saying that his own candidacy is “appealing” in the same way as “what’s resonating about Donald Trump.” Sen. Richard Burr (R-N.C.) said he was “delighted” by Trump’s passion. Rep. Joe Heck (R-Nev.) has fallen in line with Trump’s position on revoking birthright citizenship. The list goes on.
Meanwhile, the Republican committee tasked with defending these senators’ political prospects has actually advised candidates to embrace the Trump phenomenon and the controversy that comes with it. To no surprise, Republicans have fallen in line. Republican senators – from Kelly Ayotte to Rob Portman (R-Ohio) to John McCain (R-Ariz.) and Richard Burr – have all said they’ll support Trump if he is their party’s nominee next November. Senate hopefuls like Florida Rep. David Jolly have done so too.

This all before we’ve even discussed the extreme agenda Republicans are pushing in Congress, which is rooted in rolling back women’s healthcare rights, cutting programs like Social Security and Medicare, and tax policies that benefit big corporations and billionaires at the expense of everyday Americans. Together you have a recipe for a very bad 2016 for the GOP.

In the last six months the American people have witnessed the Republican Party’s front-runner for their presidential nomination refer to Mexican immigrants as “rapists,” repeatedly insult and degrade women, and now, call for a ban on Muslims from entering the United States. In turn, Republicans have fallen in line, parroted his rhetoric and won’t rule out supporting him if he is their party’s nominee next November. For a party that was already seen as hostile towards women, minorities and immigrants of all backgrounds, the past six months have only reinforced Americans’ worries about the GOP.

Regardless of what happens in the presidential campaign moving forward, the damage has already been done. Trump has hijacked the party and even if he isn’t on the ballot next November, his agenda will be, and Republicans up and down the ballot will have to own every piece of that. That should rightfully worry every Republican running for office in 2016, especially vulnerable senators running for re-election.

http://thehill.com/blogs/congress-blog/presidential-campaign/262878-trump-has-hijacked-the-gop-and-thats-bad-news-for

Rusty Jones
12-11-2015, 10:14 PM
This isn't the first time that a major party has been on the brink.

The current platforms for the Republican and Democratic parties are what saved their existence:

In the case of the Democracts, they were on the brink while Eisenhower was in office, do to the discontent of southern Democrats at the direction that FDR and Truman were taking the party. LBJ, who signed the Civil Rights Act as president in 1964, killed the one that was meant for Eisenhower to sign, because allowing Eisenhower to sign it would have been the final death blow for the Democratic Party.

With the Democratic Party moving in it's new direction, it was now winning the votes that previously went to the GOP; which meant that the GOP was now in trouble. They had no choice but to go after the votes from the people that were abandoned by the Democratic Party, thus the GOP's Southern Strategy was born and and we have today's Republican Party.

Right now, it looks like the GOP is going to have to drop the Southern Strategy. They HAVE to do it. If the GOP knows what's good for them, we're going to see a brand new GOP in 2017.

sandsjames
12-11-2015, 11:22 PM
This isn't the first time that a major party has been on the brink.

The current platforms for the Republican and Democratic parties are what saved their existence:

In the case of the Democracts, they were on the brink while Eisenhower was in office, do to the discontent of southern Democrats at the direction that FDR and Truman were taking the party. LBJ, who signed the Civil Rights Act as president in 1964, killed the one that was meant for Eisenhower to sign, because allowing Eisenhower to sign it would have been the final death blow for the Democratic Party.

With the Democratic Party moving in it's new direction, it was now winning the votes that previously went to the GOP; which meant that the GOP was now in trouble. They had no choice but to go after the votes from the people that were abandoned by the Democratic Party, thus the GOP's Southern Strategy was born and and we have today's Republican Party.

Right now, it looks like the GOP is going to have to drop the Southern Strategy. They HAVE to do it. If the GOP knows what's good for them, we're going to see a brand new GOP in 2017.

The GOP has been in trouble for awhile...ever since they gave up GOP values.

Rusty Jones
12-11-2015, 11:38 PM
The GOP has been in trouble for awhile...ever since they gave up GOP values.

You mean they've been in trouble since July 2, 1964?

sandsjames
12-11-2015, 11:55 PM
You mean they've been in trouble since July 2, 1964?

Of course that's what I meant...You're just nailing it today.

Funny how that's your default.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-12-2015, 01:34 AM
I do think the GOP has been hijacked and I think the rise of a third party is getting more and more likely.

Not sure what it will coalesce around though.

I know what I'd like to see happen. I wish the moderates from both parties would break off and form a third party.

Let Trump and the Tea Party nuts have the GOP brand.

I'll take the RINOs and swipe a few moderate Dems and and start a new party.

Rusty Jones
12-12-2015, 02:01 AM
I do think the GOP has been hijacked and I think the rise of a third party is getting more and more likely.

Not sure what it will coalesce around though.

I know what I'd like to see happen. I wish the moderates from both parties would break off and form a third party.

Let Trump and the Tea Party nuts have the GOP brand.

I'll take the RINOs and swipe a few moderate Dems and and start a new party.

If you would've asked me three years ago, I would've said that third party would have been Libertarians. The funny thing is, though... WJ5's reaction to "basic income" (which is a VERY Libertarian program, by the way), I think is pretty representative of most people who claim to be Libertarian.

If you recall, basic income is a program where all current entitlement programs (i.e., welfare, food stamps, social security, unemployment, etc) are completely scrapped and monthly amount is given to all citizens who are 18 or older. As a condition of this, minimum wage is also eliminated.

A Libertarian wet dream, right? Billions would be saved in administration costs, and you can't get mad at people not working and living off of the basic income... because you're getting it too.

Oh, but wait... WJ5 is mad because some people would choose not to work. He's worried about whether or not other people are pulling their weight in society. That's not Libertarianism. That's 100% pure unadulterated conservatism.

That conservation with WJ5 is when I realized that Libertarianism is a fucking joke. Well, maybe not Libertarianism, but people who claim to be Libertarian.

I think that the GOP would actually stay, but the extreme right wing positions taken by the Tea Party would force the GOP into the middle. Which, believe it or not, could be a good thing for the GOP.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-12-2015, 02:43 AM
If you would've asked me three years ago, I would've said that third party would have been Libertarians. The funny thing is, though... WJ5's reaction to "basic income" (which is a VERY Libertarian program, by the way), I think is pretty representative of most people who claim to be Libertarian.

If you recall, basic income is a program where all current entitlement programs (i.e., welfare, food stamps, social security, unemployment, etc) are completely scrapped and monthly amount is given to all citizens who are 18 or older. As a condition of this, minimum wage is also eliminated.

A Libertarian wet dream, right? Billions would be saved in administration costs, and you can't get mad at people not working and living off of the basic income... because you're getting it too.

Oh, but wait... WJ5 is mad because some people would choose not to work. He's worried about whether or not other people are pulling their weight in society. That's not Libertarianism. That's 100% pure unadulterated conservatism.

That conservation with WJ5 is when I realized that Libertarianism is a fucking joke. Well, maybe not Libertarianism, but people who claim to be Libertarian.

I think that the GOP would actually stay, but the extreme right wing positions taken by the Tea Party would force the GOP into the middle. Which, believe it or not, could be a good thing for the GOP.

WJ5 hasn't posted on here in a long time, but you keep referencing him. I never paid much attention to him, so I can't say how representative his views are with Libertarianism.

However, most Libertarians can't say what Libertarianism is either beyond being for a smaller and less intrusive government.


Basic income?

I'm not too sure what that would accomplish except establish a weird method of collectivism.

MikeKerriii
12-12-2015, 03:17 AM
The GOP has been in trouble for awhile...ever since they gave up GOP values.

That was in 1967, When Nixon listened to Pat Buchanan and adopted the southern strategy. Would men like Everette Dirkson even recognize the party they belonged to?

Mjölnir
12-12-2015, 04:09 AM
If you recall, basic income is a program where all current entitlement programs (i.e., welfare, food stamps, social security, unemployment, etc) are completely scrapped and monthly amount is given to all citizens who are 18 or older. As a condition of this, minimum wage is also eliminated.

A Libertarian wet dream, right? Billions would be saved in administration costs, and you can't get mad at people not working and living off of the basic income... because you're getting it too.

I could see where Libertarians would like the concept of how a basic income would eliminate a lot of government bureaucracy. I think most Libertarians would still have an issue with the cost of such a program, since you are not eliminating entitlement / assistance spending but just standardizing it across the board. Additionally most Libertarians don't believe that people have a right to have their basic needs met by anyone ... you go out and get it for yourself and the government stays off your back about how to live your life ... providing you the maximum amount of personal autonomy.

garhkal
12-12-2015, 04:49 AM
GOOD.. IMO it's high time the GOP started remembering who keeps them in power.. US THE VOTER!

Bos Mutus
12-12-2015, 05:11 AM
There is probably a time coming when the Republican Party and Tea Party part ways...the Tea Party has spoiled the GOP brand Reagan and Bush 1 established....neither of them could survive a GOP primary today.

MikeKerriii
12-12-2015, 08:05 PM
Basic income?

I'm not too sure what that would accomplish except establish a weird method of collectivism. The Finns Just started an attempt at basic income to replace many social programs, It will fun to see if it works or not, Everyone gets check every month for 870 dollars

sandsjames
12-12-2015, 09:08 PM
The Finns Just started an attempt at basic income to replace many social programs, It will fun to see if it works or not, Everyone gets check every month for 870 dollars

But that's not enough to pay rent, buy food, pay cell phone and satellite bill, buy the newest shoes, etc. If they're going to hand out money, they need to up it to a living wage.

Rainmaker
12-12-2015, 09:44 PM
There is probably a time coming when the Republican Party and Tea Party part ways...the Tea Party has spoiled the GOP brand Reagan and Bush 1 established....neither of them could survive a GOP primary today.

Nope. Bush 1 started the spoiling of the GOP brand (That Reagan Built) by turning the party over to foreign interests and his Son put the final nail in the coffin.

Following the Neocon policy of toppling secular leaders all over the Middle East and replacing them with stone age barbarians

,,,, while, at the same time pursing unrestricted immigration at home has alienated the majority of the Republican voters.

Now, the GOP Fat Cats have 2 choices...... they can Either A: elect Donald Trump or B: go into the dustbin of history (in which case, It's likely the State of Israel goes with it).

The irony is that Donald Trump is the only one that could save both of them, but they're both actively trying to destroy him, because they'd rather just have another puppet show.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1438.htm

Rainmaker
12-12-2015, 11:46 PM
I do think the GOP has been hijacked.

This stupid argument goes that the GOP has been "hijacked" by the Christian Social conservatives/NRA/ Tea Party/ Fiscal Conservatives/Right wing/ yada yada

Bullshit. GOP was "hijacked" by a corrupt group of International bankers and corporate whores.... And Not by the people that they've been pretending to represent.

garhkal
12-12-2015, 11:56 PM
But that's not enough to pay rent, buy food, pay cell phone and satellite bill, buy the newest shoes, etc. If they're going to hand out money, they need to up it to a living wage.

Rent and food i can see as 'living wages' but you don't NEED satellite, the newest shoes, or a phone.. Those are luxuries.

sandsjames
12-13-2015, 02:14 AM
Rent and food i can see as 'living wages' but you don't NEED satellite, the newest shoes, or a phone.. Those are luxuries.

I am well aware of that. I think you missed my jab at what "living wage" now means.

Rainmaker
12-13-2015, 02:50 AM
The Finns Just started an attempt at basic income to replace many social programs, It will fun to see if it works or not, Everyone gets check every month for 870 dollars

Wow that is Fun!

But, Will they also pay for the abortion after a Native woman gets raped by "refugees"?

Meanwhile, in other news from their Progressive Nordic Neighbor.....

"Male representatives on the Sormland County Council in Sweden should sit rather than stand while urinating in office restrooms, according to a motion advanced by the local Left Party."

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/06/13/sweden-left-party-toilet-stand_n_1590572.html

MikeKerriii
12-13-2015, 04:04 AM
But that's not enough to pay rent, buy food, pay cell phone and satellite bill, buy the newest shoes, etc. If they're going to hand out money, they need to up it to a living wage.

The money is to replace some government Run social programs not to cover every cost, $870 a month per person is a lot of help especially in a family with multiple people. What is the cost of living in Finland since you see to be expert on it? There are places where that amount of income makes you middle class or better.

MikeKerriii
12-13-2015, 04:26 AM
I am well aware of that. I think you missed my jab at what "living wage" now means.

Jabs are hard to see when they are based on imaginary facts.

sandsjames
12-13-2015, 11:02 AM
The money is to replace some government Run social programs not to cover every cost, $870 a month per person is a lot of help especially in a family with multiple people. What is the cost of living in Finland since you see to be expert on it? There are places where that amount of income makes you middle class or better.

I am an expert on all things Finland. I'm also an expert on the definition of redundancy, and am pretty sure "family with multiple people" fits that category.

sandsjames
12-13-2015, 11:03 AM
Jabs are hard to see when they are based on imaginary facts.

You forgot the "Bazinga!"

Absinthe Anecdote
12-13-2015, 03:18 PM
Nope. Bush 1 started the spoiling of the GOP brand (That Reagan Built) by turning the party over to foreign interests and his Son put the final nail in the coffin.

Following the Neocon policy of toppling secular leaders all over the Middle East and replacing them with stone age barbarians

,,,, while, at the same time pursing unrestricted immigration at home has alienated the majority of the Republican voters.

Now, the GOP Fat Cats have 2 choices...... they can Either A: elect Donald Trump or B: go into the dustbin of history (in which case, It's likely the State of Israel goes with it).

The irony is that Donald Trump is the only one that could save both of them, but they're both actively trying to destroy him, because they'd rather just have another puppet show.

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article1438.htm

Wow!

You've created a pretty big fantasy about Trump.

Watch his campaign go up in smoke when he loses big in the first two primaries.

garhkal
12-13-2015, 09:52 PM
I am well aware of that. I think you missed my jab at what "living wage" now means.

I guess i did..


The money is to replace some government Run social programs not to cover every cost, $870 a month per person is a lot of help especially in a family with multiple people. What is the cost of living in Finland since you see to be expert on it? There are places where that amount of income makes you middle class or better.

Also, is that 870 a mo, taxed? Does it go up or down if they get a job?
Does it only apply to legal residents and citizens? Or anyone in the country, even refugees, illegal immigrants and those who tried claiming asylum but got their claim rejected?

What is the 'tax rate' going to be like on everyone who IS working just to pay for that all?

giggawatt
12-14-2015, 04:00 PM
Some of you guys need to download that sarcasm font. Jesus.