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View Full Version : Massacre at the Social Services building, San Bernardino



UncaRastus
12-02-2015, 10:15 PM
I lived in that area of southern California for a short time, as well as having worked at the Loma Linda U. Hospital. Right now, 14 people have been reportedly killed by 3 or more masked people that used (as reported, at the time) AK47s.

The suspects reportedly left the area in a black or dark SUV. Up to this point in time, they have not been apprehended.

Local Police and the Sheriff's of that area are on the scene, as well as the FBI and the ATF have responded.

The building is being searched for anyone else injured that may still be in that building, and bomb squads are looking for bombs inside and outside of that building.

The wounded people have been evacuated to the Loma Linda U. Hospital

http://www.cnn.com/2015/12/02/us/san-bernardino-shooting/

garhkal
12-03-2015, 03:34 AM
Truely sickening. BUT why is it only 1 of the 3 perp have been named?

MikeKerriii
12-03-2015, 04:17 AM
Truely sickening. BUT why is it only 1 of the 3 perp have been named?

They may not have hard enough IDs on the other two, In fact there may well only be two murderers involved

UncaRastus
12-03-2015, 03:43 PM
For now, it looks as if the two were the people involved in the shooting, with no one else at the present, on the wanted for terrorism/workplace shooting list, as to this happening.

For now.

There was discovered GoPro cameras on the husband and wife team, just as GoPros were found on the attackers in Paris.

Their child was dropped off, to be with his mom. They were going to a doctor's appointment, according to the mother. Which turned out to be untrue. Unless there was a doctor where they did their shooting ...

The next door neighbor to this couple had seen four or five different adult men at the house, before. She had noticed that someone was working in the garage, late at night.

The neighbor said that she was very suspicious of her neighbors, but that she didn't want to report them, because she might have been called racist.

Pipe bombs were discovered in the IRC building, where the shootings occurred. There were pipe bombs tossed out of the SUV that they were trying to escape in. At least, that is what the investigators claim.

The most prevalent theory for now is that the man arrived at the IRC building, then he went to where his coworkers had congregated. While there, he may have been checking to make sure that their was no police present, and also to make sure that enough people were present to have enough people to shoot to 'make a good show'.

IRC is a contraction for the Inland Regional Center, where people were, that worked for the social services of California. It was the place where cases for the mentally (and probably, physically) disabled children, and/or adults, are handled.

The brother to Fayed Farook (the male that was shot and killed)spoke about the killings, accompanied by members of CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations).

Speaking of those GoPro cameras, I do wonder if there were any statements made to the reason for the attack, recorded by the cameras? Will we ever find out about what was on the GoPros?

Rusty Jones
12-03-2015, 04:57 PM
Let's talk about the big argument within the argument: "thoughts" and "prayers." Because that argument is going to be around long after we've forgotten about San Bernardino, and is going to keep coming up.

I'm surprised that this hasn't already been a discussion for years.

I'm with the Senator that told everyone that he didn't care to hear their "thoughts" and "prayers."

The mass shooting is a part of God's plan. Why would he comfort those who were a victim of his plan? If he doesn't want them to feel so devasted... if he cared about that first place, then he wouldn't have excuted his plan. Jus' sayin'

sandsjames
12-03-2015, 05:29 PM
Let's talk about the big argument within the argument: "thoughts" and "prayers." Because that argument is going to be around long after we've forgotten about San Bernardino, and is going to keep coming up.

I'm surprised that this hasn't already been a discussion for years.

I'm with the Senator that told everyone that he didn't care to hear their "thoughts" and "prayers."

The mass shooting is a part of God's plan. Why would he comfort those who were a victim of his plan? If he doesn't want them to feel so devasted... if he cared about that first place, then he wouldn't have excuted his plan. Jus' sayin'


Dammit, Rusty. Why do you have to do that? Is that really the thing to focus on with something like this?

Rusty Jones
12-03-2015, 05:31 PM
Dammit, Rusty. Why do you have to do that? Is that really the thing to focus on with something like this?

If I didn't do it, AA was going to. Come on, now!

Absinthe Anecdote
12-03-2015, 06:05 PM
If I didn't do it, AA was going to. Come on, now!

The NY Daily news beat us both to it.

Did you see their cover on it?

I can't post a picture of it because the website is acting hinky again.

The headline read:

God isn't fixing this!

Absinthe Anecdote
12-03-2015, 06:09 PM
For now, it looks as if the two were the people involved in the shooting, with no one else at the present, on the wanted for terrorism/workplace shooting list, as to this happening.

For now.

There was discovered GoPro cameras on the husband and wife team, just as GoPros were found on the attackers in Paris.

Their child was dropped off, to be with his mom. They were going to a doctor's appointment, according to the mother. Which turned out to be untrue. Unless there was a doctor where they did their shooting ...

The next door neighbor to this couple had seen four or five different adult men at the house, before. She had noticed that someone was working in the garage, late at night.

The neighbor said that she was very suspicious of her neighbors, but that she didn't want to report them, because she might have been called racist.

Pipe bombs were discovered in the IRC building, where the shootings occurred. There were pipe bombs tossed out of the SUV that they were trying to escape in. At least, that is what the investigators claim.

The most prevalent theory for now is that the man arrived at the IRC building, then he went to where his coworkers had congregated. While there, he may have been checking to make sure that their was no police present, and also to make sure that enough people were present to have enough people to shoot to 'make a good show'.

IRC is a contraction for the Inland Regional Center, where people were, that worked for the social services of California. It was the place where cases for the mentally (and probably, physically) disabled children, and/or adults, are handled.

The brother to Fayed Farook (the male that was shot and killed)spoke about the killings, accompanied by members of CAIR (Council on American-Islamic Relations).

Speaking of those GoPro cameras, I do wonder if there were any statements made to the reason for the attack, recorded by the cameras? Will we ever find out about what was on the GoPros?

The FBI just said that they didn't have GoPros on them.

Press conference just a few minutes ago. They also haven't announced an official motive yet.

It looks like a connection to international terrorism will be made, but they are going through the evidence slowly before they say anything.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-03-2015, 06:14 PM
Dammit, Rusty. Why do you have to do that? Is that really the thing to focus on with something like this?

All joking aside, if politicians and the public in general are going to repeatedly spew nonsense about the comfort of God and prayers, then I think it is reasonable to call it into question.

Plus, if this was Islamic terrorism, then God pops into the middle of it again.

Enough of this God nonsense!

God is imaginary!

Bos Mutus
12-03-2015, 06:24 PM
The NY Daily news beat us both to it.

Did you see their cover on it?

I can't post a picture of it because the website is acting hinky again.

The headline read:

God isn't fixing this!

Yes, they are making a political point.

Within hours of the shooting, all of the Presidential candidates took to Twitter to make sure they say something about the shooting.

Within and hour of that the Memesters started making their meme's to make their political point...

There was the one where they show all the leading GOP candidates offering thoughts and prayers to the victims...and then they show Hillary and Bernie saying "we need to do something"....and then they say, "See, GOP are better people offering sympathy rather than seeking political gain"

Irony of the meme notwithstanding.

So, the Dems counter with..."thoughts and prayers aren't gonna fix this...see, the GOP has nothing, Hillary and Bernie vowing to work for a solution"

So as the memesters gain traction the news has to stick up for their side.

Same script every time:

1 Shooting happens
2. Race to find out if the suspect if somehow affiliated with the "other side" political cause...are they Muslim? Atheist? Right-wing? Liberal?...
3. If suspect is a member of opposite side of beliefs...use as evidence that all people in that belief are like this suspect...and that ideology results in this
4. If suspect is a member of own beliefs...explain how this is an isolated incident of a crazy person and that the problem in this country is mental illness
5. Guns are the problem vs. Guns are the solution
6. Nothing will change...wait a week for the next one.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-03-2015, 06:37 PM
Yes, they are making a political point.

Within hours of the shooting, all of the Presidential candidates took to Twitter to make sure they say something about the shooting.

Within and hour of that the Memesters started making their meme's to make their political point...

There was the one where they show all the leading GOP candidates offering thoughts and prayers to the victims...and then they show Hillary and Bernie saying "we need to do something"....and then they say, "See, GOP are better people offering sympathy rather than seeking political gain"

Irony of the meme notwithstanding.

So, the Dems counter with..."thoughts and prayers aren't gonna fix this...see, the GOP has nothing, Hillary and Bernie vowing to work for a solution"

So as the memesters gain traction the news has to stick up for their side.

Same script every time:

1 Shooting happens
2. Race to find out if the suspect if somehow affiliated with the "other side" political cause...are they Muslim? Atheist? Right-wing? Liberal?...
3. If suspect is a member of opposite side of beliefs...use as evidence that all people in that belief are like this suspect...and that ideology results in this
4. If suspect is a member of own beliefs...explain how this is an isolated incident of a crazy person and that the problem in this country is mental illness
5. Guns are the problem vs. Guns are the solution
6. Nothing will change...wait a week for the next one.

Yes, when the story first broke CNN had a banner up highlighting the proximity of a Planned Parenthood clinic.

Rusty Jones
12-03-2015, 06:37 PM
What's new, however, are those offering their "thoughts and prayers" being told to spare everyone the bullshit.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-03-2015, 06:44 PM
What's new, however, are those offering their "thoughts and prayers" being told to spare everyone the bullshit.

I second that notion.

It is a hollow sentiment and as dumb as any superstition.

It is in the same set as knocking on wood and tossing salt over your shoulder.

Rainmaker
12-03-2015, 06:45 PM
Yes and the Retards in the Corporate Media and .gov are still Claiming To Not Know The Motive For The Murder.

As if this Paki-Saudi Wahhabist was just a run of the mill disgruntled Civil Servant going Postal.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-03-2015, 06:51 PM
Yes and the Retards in the Corporate Media and .gov are still Claiming To Not Know The Motive For The Murder.

As if this Paki-Saudi Wahhabist was just a run of the mill disgruntled Civil Servant going Postal.

STFU!

If it was your ass on the line, you'd make sure you knew what you were saying was correct before you went official.

Or maybe you wouldn't?

The smart move in any press conference is to say as little as possible until you know for sure.

garhkal
12-03-2015, 07:03 PM
They may not have hard enough IDs on the other two, In fact there may well only be two murderers involved

On another site we are discussing this, there was a link to the UK paper (daily mail) and they had the name of the wife as well.



There was discovered GoPro cameras on the husband and wife team, just as GoPros were found on the attackers in Paris.

According to this lunch times news briefing, both the Sherrif and FBI guy mentioned there were no gopro cameras found..


All joking aside, if politicians and the public in general are going to repeatedly spew nonsense about the comfort of God and prayers, then I think it is reasonable to call it into question.

Plus, if this was Islamic terrorism, then God pops into the middle of it again.

Enough of this God nonsense!

God is imaginary!

And IMO any god that lets stuff like this happen is not a god worthy of admiration and prayers.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-03-2015, 07:24 PM
And IMO any god that lets stuff like this happen is not a god worthy of admiration and prayers.

You certainly have a point there, Mannix.

It would put him in the same category as a 7-year-old who burns ants with a magnifying glass.

Remember the time he let Satan totally fuck over Job because of a casual wager?

That is just like when Randy and Mortimer Duke screwed with Dan Akroyd and Eddie Murphy's lives over a $1 bet.

Bos Mutus
12-03-2015, 07:26 PM
What's new, however, are those offering their "thoughts and prayers" being told to spare everyone the bullshit.


I second that notion.

It is a hollow sentiment and as dumb as any superstition.

It is in the same set as knocking on wood and tossing salt over your shoulder.



And IMO any god that lets stuff like this happen is not a god worthy of admiration and prayers.

While I don't actually believe a personal God is up there watching our lives and intervening when necessary...I do and have found some comfort in people "thinking and praying" for me and my family at other times...not there is a God that listens to the prayers and does something...but that friends and family have us on their minds...maybe just the sense of community or whatever.

Of course, getting those thoughts from some politician on Twitter doesn't do anything for me.

I also think there is some power in positive thinking...that if you believe something works, it can...whether that belief is in a God, a brass statue, a placebo or a chair.

Rainmaker
12-03-2015, 07:52 PM
STFU!

If it was your ass on the line, you'd make sure you knew what you were saying was correct before you went official.

Or maybe you wouldn't?

The smart move in any press conference is to say as little as possible until you know for sure.

That's the point. They already know for sure. They're just crafting "the message".

You know the one....That We need more open borders, more diversity, more gun control, more funding, more intrusion into our rights.... Because only the Nanny State can provide for our protection.

Rainmaker
12-03-2015, 07:57 PM
I second that notion.

It is a hollow sentiment and as dumb as any superstition.

It is in the same set as knocking on wood and tossing salt over your shoulder.

Yeah no need in having a God because when the bullets start flying the Professionals in one of the myriad of .gov Fusion Centers will be there to save you.

sandsjames
12-03-2015, 07:58 PM
If I didn't do it, AA was going to. Come on, now!

True...

Honestly, I find the sentiment about "thoughts and prayers" kinda silly, but what annoys me the most is that it was just a statement made and now, as with everything in our country these days, it turns into something religious or political.

I wish that there could just be one time when something happens and people focus on the actual important shit, not the little bullshit sound bites.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-03-2015, 08:03 PM
While I don't actually believe a personal God is up there watching our lives and intervening when necessary...I do and have found some comfort in people "thinking and praying" for me and my family at other times...not there is a God that listens to the prayers and does something...but that friends and family have us on their minds...maybe just the sense of community or whatever.

Of course, getting those thoughts from some politician on Twitter doesn't do anything for me.

I'll give you this one. It does feel good to have people around you express solidarity with you in a time of crisis.

Even if it is only kind words of sympathy.





I also think there is some power in positive thinking...that if you believe something works, it can...whether that belief is in a God, a brass statue, a placebo or a chair.

I might squabble with you over this one, depending on how far you take it.

A positive attitude is an asset. Sure, I'll buy into that.

However, if I firmly believed the Great Pumpkin is real, it isn't going to do anything but create an unhealthy delusion.

MikeKerriii
12-03-2015, 08:03 PM
Yes and the Retards in the Corporate Media and .gov are still Claiming To Not Know The Motive For The Murder.

As if this Paki-Saudi Wahhabist was just a run of the mill disgruntled Civil Servant going Postal.

The only place you could have gotten that he was definitely a Wahhabist is by pulling it out of your rear. Making up your own private reality as you go along like Trump doesn't make you look good.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-03-2015, 08:09 PM
Yeah no need in having a God because when the bullets start flying the Professionals in one of the myriad of .gov Fusion Centers will be there to save you.

Since there isn't a God, and Fusion Centers actually do exist you are better off asking a Fusion Center to help you.

Mjölnir
12-03-2015, 08:15 PM
Folks, talking about the candidates statement(s) about prayer is one thing but let's parse the religion debate to the Religion Forum ...

Rainmaker
12-03-2015, 08:30 PM
The only place you could have gotten that he was definitely a Wahhabist is by pulling it out of your rear. Making up your own private reality as you go along like Trump doesn't make you look good.

Right. This Paki Syed Rizwan Farook Traveled to Saudi Arabia and married the girl of his dreams his Tashfeen Malik

These young love birds settled into their American dream home by inviting over all kinds of shady people and stocking a bomb factory in their garage.

In anticipation of their first Christmas together they decided to strap up with body armor and go on a rampage killing 15 innocent people in a government "gun free" zone.

Curiously young Farrok followed Revolution Syria, The Islamic Ummah, Islam, Muslim American Society, CAIR-SFBA, CAIR on social media.

I guess Maybe he's just disgruntled and it's probably Donald Trump and the NRA's fault.

Rainmaker
12-03-2015, 08:32 PM
Since there isn't a God, and Fusion Centers actually do exist you are better off asking a Fusion Center to help you.

And yet Somehow the hundreds of thousands of fuckwits at the Dozens of overlapping Intelligence agencies (that are getting paid hundreds of Billions of $ to spy on us) missed it.

And they're still not sure if there's a terrorist connection?

I'd think I'd rather take my chances with God and Guns than the government

Absinthe Anecdote
12-03-2015, 08:47 PM
I'd think I'd rather take my chances with God and Guns than the government

You do that. I'm joining the CIA.


http://youtu.be/C-CG5w4YwOI

Rainmaker
12-03-2015, 09:31 PM
You do that. I'm joining the CIA.


CIA=Chistians in Action

TJMAC77SP
12-03-2015, 09:44 PM
While I don't actually believe a personal God is up there watching our lives and intervening when necessary...I do and have found some comfort in people "thinking and praying" for me and my family at other times...not there is a God that listens to the prayers and does something...but that friends and family have us on their minds...maybe just the sense of community or whatever.

Of course, getting those thoughts from some politician on Twitter doesn't do anything for me.

I also think there is some power in positive thinking...that if you believe something works, it can...whether that belief is in a God, a brass statue, a placebo or a chair.

This is one of the several times I wondered why you changed your profile name

Bos Mutus
12-03-2015, 10:00 PM
This is one of the several times I wondered why you changed your profile name

I don't get why this would make you wonder that...

But, to answer your question...I locked myself out of the old profile and couldn't get back into it, so I just created a new one...nothing really profound or meaningful about either profile name...so, nothing much to wonder about.

ACME_MAN
12-03-2015, 11:12 PM
Read today that the perpetrators met in Saudi Arabia. I do hope that the Russians go into that country and clean out the Wahaabi pestilence.

MikeKerriii
12-04-2015, 12:25 AM
Right. This Paki Syed Rizwan Farook Traveled to Saudi Arabia and married the girl of his dreams his Tashfeen Malik

These young love birds settled into their American dream home by inviting over all kinds of shady people and stocking a bomb factory in their garage.

In anticipation of their first Christmas together they decided to strap up with body armor and go on a rampage killing 15 innocent people in a government "gun free" zone.

Curiously young Farrok followed Revolution Syria, The Islamic Ummah, Islam, Muslim American Society, CAIR-SFBA, CAIR on social media.

I guess Maybe he's just disgruntled and it's probably Donald Trump and the NRA's fault.
The only way you could know he was a Wahhabi when you posted that comment was by seeing it in a delusion, or pulling it out of your rear,

garhkal
12-04-2015, 03:59 AM
And yet Somehow the hundreds of thousands of fuckwits at the Dozens of overlapping Intelligence agencies (that are getting paid hundreds of Billions of $ to spy on us) missed it. And they're still not sure if there's a terrorist connection?

I'd think I'd rather take my chances with God and Guns than the government

Me to.. All the recent attacks the 'red hats' seem to always miss makes me wonder why they even have all those 'watch lists'..

sandsjames
12-04-2015, 12:48 PM
Everyone knows the details about the shooter, where he's from, how he got ahold of the weapons, the materials he had in his trunk. Everyone has an opinion about why it happened, what we should do with immigration or guns, statements about prayers, etc. Does anyone know, or give a shit, without looking it up, the names of those killed, the families and friends they left behind? It's fucking pathetic. Everyone cares about their agenda and how to stick it to the other guy. That's the world we live in and it's sad. It's far more harmful than any religion, weapon, or terrorist agenda.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-04-2015, 01:56 PM
Everyone knows the details about the shooter, where he's from, how he got ahold of the weapons, the materials he had in his trunk. Everyone has an opinion about why it happened, what we should do with immigration or guns, statements about prayers, etc. Does anyone know, or give a shit, without looking it up, the names of those killed, the families and friends they left behind? It's fucking pathetic.

Ok, whatever.


Everyone cares about their agenda and how to stick it to the other guy. That's the world we live in and it's sad. It's far more harmful than any religion, weapon, or terrorist agenda.

Here is your main point and it is one I agree with, except the sad part.

Religions, weapons, and agendas (terrorist or any other) are but mere tools to establish dominance and control.

As humans, establishing dominance is part of what we do. It is part of our nature.

Just be grateful that you are a human and not a wolf or a baboon.

As a human, you have plenty of things to distract yourself in your time on this planet. You can watch TV, post stupid opinions on this forum with computers.

There are countless hobbies for you to pursue. You can eat enormous amounts of cheap food in a dwelling that is relatively safe and warm.

At least compared to the conditions wolves and baboons have to live in.

You don't have to spend your time growling and snarling to your pack mates, or thumping your chest at fellow baboons as you forage for grub worms.

Nope, you can slurp coffee while wearing cozy pajamas as you peck away at your keyboard to convince your fellow humans that you are enlightened.

In other words, we are animals. Sometimes we are very beautiful, sometimes very nasty.

garhkal
12-04-2015, 02:26 PM
Everyone knows the details about the shooter, where he's from, how he got ahold of the weapons, the materials he had in his trunk. Everyone has an opinion about why it happened, what we should do with immigration or guns, statements about prayers, etc. Does anyone know, or give a shit, without looking it up, the names of those killed, the families and friends they left behind? It's fucking pathetic. Everyone cares about their agenda and how to stick it to the other guy. That's the world we live in and it's sad. It's far more harmful than any religion, weapon, or terrorist agenda.

I agree, i am sick that after each of these shootings, we seem to get days upon days focusing on the killer, while at most we get a few minutes here and there on victims.
BUT i would also like to know if the families OF those victims have the right to refuse the name(s) of their lost loved one(s), from being given out to the press.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-04-2015, 02:42 PM
I agree, i am sick that after each of these shootings, we seem to get days upon days focusing on the killer, while at most we get a few minutes here and there on victims.
BUT i would also like to know if the families OF those victims have the right to refuse the name(s) of their lost loved one(s), from being given out to the press.

It is public information, so people can't refuse.

Any investigation that a local police department is involved in is subject to public release at some point.

News outlets typically will publish the names of the deceased. The names of wounded victims are generally withheld, but not always.

If the media was poking around and reporting on the victims, what would that add to the story?

The focus should be on the shooter and not some guy who caught a bullet while going for a cup of coffee.

waveshaper2
12-04-2015, 02:47 PM
This is really simple stuff. The holiday season is just getting underway and I would expect more attacks and some plots thwarted "hopefully". The AO's under the gun during this timeframe are the USA/Europe/and anyplace else Christians live, celebrate, shop, conduct Xmas parties, perform religious events, etc, etc.

Lesson learned from this terrorist attack; Don't invite Muslims to your Christmas party, particularly if they're Sunni. The only thing that surprises me about this terrorist attack is the fact that these terrorist didn't strap a couple pipe bombs on their 6 month old infant and use the baby as a weapon during their rampage.

sandsjames
12-04-2015, 02:53 PM
Ok, whatever.



Here is your main point and it is one I agree with, except the sad part.

Religions, weapons, and agendas (terrorist or any other) are but mere tools to establish dominance and control.

As humans, establishing dominance is part of what we do. It is part of our nature.

Just be grateful that you are a human and not a wolf or a baboon.

As a human, you have plenty of things to distract yourself in your time on this planet. You can watch TV, post stupid opinions on this forum with computers.

There are countless hobbies for you to pursue. You can eat enormous amounts of cheap food in a dwelling that is relatively safe and warm.

At least compared to the conditions wolves and baboons have to live in.

You don't have to spend your time growling and snarling to your pack mates, or thumping your chest at fellow baboons as you forage for grub worms.

Nope, you can slurp coffee while wearing cozy pajamas as you peck away at your keyboard to convince your fellow humans that you are enlightened.

In other words, we are animals. Sometimes we are very beautiful, sometimes very nasty.

As long as it helps people to feel they're on the right side of the argument. I'm not claiming to be enlightened, because I'm as guilty as everyone else.

What has this shooting done? The left blames it on guns, the right blames it on terrorism. It gives both sides another reason to get on their pedestal and pitch their agenda while nothing actually gets taken care of. If this isn't an issue that concerns a large majority of Americans then we're even further from what we're supposed to be than people have been claiming.

sandsjames
12-04-2015, 02:54 PM
If the media was poking around and reporting on the victims, what would that add to the story?



You mean "What would that add to their ratings"? What it would add to the story is the compassionate side. The human side. Instead, it's just the political side.

UncaRastus
12-04-2015, 02:59 PM
Another important question is being ignored. Is the vehicle rental company that rented the Ford Expedition to the shooters, able to recoup the value of the SUV that was rented to them, through the insurance policy on that vehicle?

Or do insurance companies now have to have special clauses in their paperwork, that would have to be signed by the renters, to cover their vehicles against shootout damages?

I feel bad for the renting company's owners, if they have to lose a vehicle because the officers on site so wantonly ruined their SUV, and can't get another SUV because that vehicle wasn't covered.

Oh. Yeah. I guess - ;)

Absinthe Anecdote
12-04-2015, 03:07 PM
As long as it helps people to feel they're on the right side of the argument. I'm not claiming to be enlightened, because I'm as guilty as everyone else.

What has this shooting done? The left blames it on guns, the right blames it on terrorism. It gives both sides another reason to get on their pedestal and pitch their agenda while nothing actually gets taken care of. If this isn't an issue that concerns a large majority of Americans then we're even further from what we're supposed to be than people have been claiming.

I wasn't poking you in the eye about claiming to be enlightened, not on a personal level.

It was a jab at humanity.

I'll go out on a limb and claim enlightenment to a degree. However, I'll be the first to acknowledge that the enlightenment that I've found isn't anything special. It is actually a little scary.

I'm just willing to admit that humans are snarling animals like wolves and baboons.

Some of us just smell like soap and can create miraculous gadgets, art and music.

We still vie for dominance and control.

It is just what we do.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-04-2015, 03:09 PM
You mean "What would that add to their ratings"? What it would add to the story is the compassionate side. The human side. Instead, it's just the political side.

But then there would be people complaining about the media pestering the survivors and the grieving families.

Sometimes there are stories about the victims, but after some time has past. It wouldn't be right to get in their faces right after the attack.

Hell, 72 hours hasn't even passed yet.

sandsjames
12-04-2015, 03:17 PM
But then there would be people complaining about the media pestering the survivors and the grieving families.

Sometimes there are stories about the victims, but after some time has past. It wouldn't be right to get in their faces right after the attack.

Hell, 72 hours hasn't even passed yet.

Right, 72 hours hasn't passed, and how much have we heard about how bad guns and muslims are? I just don't give a shit anymore.

Bos Mutus
12-04-2015, 03:28 PM
You mean "What would that add to their ratings"? What it would add to the story is the compassionate side. The human side. Instead, it's just the political side.

If the goal were to learn how and why these things happen and take preventive actions and things like that...then there is more to learn by examining the shooter than the victims. A big IF...most of us only want to solve the ones that are caused by another political belief, it seems.

Mass shootings have been committed by all kinds of people, though. Preventing them will never be about "convincing people that liberalism/conservativism is morally inferior, etc."....we will always have something to squabble over.

Reminds me of a similar conversation about suicide....how do you prevent suicide? Was listening to a briefing about how you know 80% had family trouble, 70% had financial problems, etc. etc. and we need to have resources to deal with those issues. That's well and good, but if we think we're going to solve everyone's problems in the world so they won't commit suicide, we are kidding ourselves. Rather, I'd think we need to address that the suicide answer is worse than the problem...more work to do there for sure.

The thing that leaves a bad taste for me is that these shooters are often portrayed as intriguing, mysterious and interesting...people want to know what music they listened, what kinds of things they believe in or books they read, etc...or bullied people who took their glorious revenge. I'd like to see them portrayed as pathetic losers instead who deserve more bullying after death...maybe then some others wouldn't want to be like them.

Whenever you see the shooters picture up on CNN or FOX as they analyze the Facebook posts and manifestos they wrote...you just know there's another loser sitting in a basement saying, "Man, I can do that...then people will know."

Maybe a different story with the Muslim thing...what I wanna do there is see all the Imam's in the world come together and put some kind of post-death condemnation to hell on this guy...I don't know enough about Islam, but there's gotta be some post-death disgrace they can lay on him...bury him in a pig carcass with a bunch of shoe bottoms or something, I dunno...I wan his family, his mosque to say he is a disgrace to them and whatever it is they can do to demonstrate that.

Let's just start saying, "Hey the shooter was just some loser who didn't have the balls to deal with normal problems."

Rainmaker
12-04-2015, 03:31 PM
.
Hell, 72 hours hasn't even passed yet


and yet it only took the crack agents at the FBI a couple of days to make the link to terrorism.

"As attack was happening, investigators believe female attacker Tashfeen Malik posted on FB, pledging allegiance to ISIS leader al-Baghdadi"
— CNN NationalSecurity (@NatSecCNN) December 4, 2015

So Now, King Oblamo wants to import 200K more Moslems from Syria?

what's a poor federal employee in a .gov "gun free zone" to do?

I know...Let's Put in a requisition for $20Million dollars worth of scissors!!!

http://nypost.com/2013/01/31/homeland-security-has-advice-for-confronting-mass-murders-scissors/

Rainmaker
12-04-2015, 03:54 PM
...bury him in a pig carcass with a bunch of shoe bottoms or something,



sure, great idea..... They probably only hate us because we get to eat pork!

UncaRastus
12-04-2015, 04:06 PM
Rainmaker, what I think is that the interrogators, when confronted with a captive terrorist, should be making a tasty BLT sandwich in the interrogation room. The smell of frying bacon would make the terrorist into a non Islamic terrorist on the spot.

The terrorist would be begging for a BLT sandwich within seconds. He or she would be divulging all that they know, just to get a delicious BLT sandwich.

I will be calling in this idea to the CIA. Do you want part credit for this idea, since your post was the inspiration of this great idea?

;)

waveshaper2
12-04-2015, 04:12 PM
and yet it only took the crack agents at the FBI a couple of days to make the link to terrorism.


In the PC world of the left some will still attempt to call this workplace violence. In the non PC world we call this type of workplace violence; an Islamic Extremist (Sunni inspired) "Insider Attack".
These Islamic Extremist get bonus points for insider attacks and double bonus points if the insider attack is against Christian/Christmas related events.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-04-2015, 04:43 PM
Everyone cares about their agenda and how to stick it to the other guy. That's the world we live in and it's sad. It's far more harmful than any religion, weapon, or terrorist agenda.

I'm quoting you on this a second time because this statement has some very deep philosophical implications, at least for me.

I posit that humans are naturally prone to seek dominance, and because of this we seek conflict.

It manifests in different ways, but in the manner you cite of turning every issue into a political weapon, I think it is very true.

I think the underlying cause is a very basic human behavior.

I suspect that true altruism is a rarity. Many times when we claim we are doing something for the greater good, it is really just another tool to assert ourselves.

I've done a winter coat drive for the poor in Baltimore each November for the past nine years.

Why do I do it?

I think it is more about my feelings of guilt, or my need to contribute than it is of another's need for a warm coat.

I've done nice things on a whim before, but I'm usually protecting my interests in some fashion at the same time.

SJ, I don't know if it is sad that a tragedy is turned into ammunition to bolster a separate agenda.

I think it is just part of who we are. It is natural behavior.

Sometimes good things come from acting this way, sometimes not.

Rainmaker
12-04-2015, 05:12 PM
In other words, we are animals. .

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-FB_wBZU02Ms/U3gtWz3uhrI/AAAAAAAAAbU/LVbXUBWSXgg/s1600/Evolution.jpg

sandsjames
12-04-2015, 06:10 PM
I'm quoting you on this a second time because this statement has some very deep philosophical implications, at least for me.

I posit that humans are naturally prone to seek dominance, and because of this we seek conflict.

It manifests in different ways, but in the manner you cite of turning every issue into a political weapon, I think it is very true.

I think the underlying cause is a very basic human behavior.

I suspect that true altruism is a rarity. Many times when we claim we are doing something for the greater good, it is really just another tool to assert ourselves.

I've done a winter coat drive for the poor in Baltimore each November for the past nine years.

Why do I do it?

I think it is more about my feelings of guilt, or my need to contribute than it is of another's need for a warm coat.

I've done nice things on a whim before, but I'm usually protecting my interests in some fashion at the same time.

SJ, I don't know if it is sad that a tragedy is turned into ammunition to bolster a separate agenda.

I think it is just part of who we are. It is natural behavior.

Sometimes good things come from acting this way, sometimes not.

It's just a byproduct of the "information age". I don't think it's any different than it's ever been, really. It's just more public, and more people have their say. I suppose that's what is supposed to happen in a government like ours.

However, I will relate it to stuff that's been said between you and me several times when you were on your "Quit being a whiner" schtick. Even if complaints are valid, they aren't going to be heard or attended to when those complaining are views as whiners or, in the case of our government/society, partisan. Is the gun issue a valid item to bring up? Yes. Is the immigration/law enforcement a valid topic? Yes. But it's buried in so much other stuff that the valid arguments will be overlooked. As crazy as he is, I think this is RMs underlying point.

Anyway, I'll stick to my local news for awhile, and leave the 24 hour stuff alone. See how that goes.

UncaRastus
12-04-2015, 06:39 PM
The assistant honcho for the L.A. FBI office has stated that this attack is now being investigated as a terrorist attack.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-04-2015, 10:33 PM
It's just a byproduct of the "information age". I don't think it's any different than it's ever been, really. It's just more public, and more people have their say. I suppose that's what is supposed to happen in a government like ours.

However, I will relate it to stuff that's been said between you and me several times when you were on your "Quit being a whiner" schtick. Even if complaints are valid, they aren't going to be heard or attended to when those complaining are views as whiners or, in the case of our government/society, partisan. Is the gun issue a valid item to bring up? Yes. Is the immigration/law enforcement a valid topic? Yes. But it's buried in so much other stuff that the valid arguments will be overlooked. As crazy as he is, I think this is RMs underlying point.

Anyway, I'll stick to my local news for awhile, and leave the 24 hour stuff alone. See how that goes.

I'm glad you can finally admit that you whined too much when you were on active duty.

We made some real progress here today.

Mjölnir
12-04-2015, 11:15 PM
Even if complaints are valid, they aren't going to be heard or attended to when those complaining are views as whiners or, in the case of our government/society, partisan.

There is a different that someone whining and a legitimate gripe. As you point out, someone may have a legitimate issue, but if they have a track record of being a whiner ... they likely will not be heard.

It is important to note, that even when someone is whining, sometimes all they want is to vent ... it doesn't take too much to let them get some frustration off their chest.

Mjölnir
12-04-2015, 11:15 PM
Even if complaints are valid, they aren't going to be heard or attended to when those complaining are views as whiners or, in the case of our government/society, partisan.

There is a different that someone whining and a legitimate gripe. As you point out, someone may have a legitimate issue, but if they have a track record of being a whiner ... they likely will not be heard.

It is important to note, that even when someone is whining, sometimes all they want is to vent ... it doesn't take too much to let them get some frustration off their chest.

Rainmaker
12-04-2015, 11:49 PM
I've done a winter coat drive for the poor in Baltimore each November for the past nine years.

Why do I do it?

I think it is more about my feelings of guilt, .

Academic Time Out//

Absinthe Anecdote


Why do you chose to have feelings of guilt rather than feeling gratitude, thankfulness, gratefulness or dare I say it..... feeling blessed? "GASP!"

Did you attain your station in life through illegal or immoral means?

If not.....why then should you feel guilty for it?

and If so.....better that you let it go, give thanks that it turned out well (in spite yourself) and you are still in a position to help another. //

Message follows......

Giving out of guilt is counter-productive because the consciousness of guilt calls forth condemnation.

You are doing a good thing there, so do it with a full heart and clear conscious.

It's Better to give nothing than to risk condemning another by giving out of guilt.



Isaiah 55:11 (RSV) so shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

Time in//

sandsjames
12-05-2015, 10:46 AM
There is a different that someone whining and a legitimate gripe. As you point out, someone may have a legitimate issue, but if they have a track record of being a whiner ... they likely will not be heard.

It is important to note, that even when someone is whining, sometimes all they want is to vent ... it doesn't take too much to let them get some frustration off their chest.

Agree completely. But when it's politicians doing it, or "news reporters" do it, it moves beyond being heard.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-05-2015, 01:48 PM
Academic Time Out//

Absinthe Anecdote


Why do you chose to have feelings of guilt rather than feeling gratitude, thankfulness, gratefulness or dare I say it..... feeling blessed? "GASP!"

Did you attain your station in life through illegal or immoral means?

If not.....why then should you feel guilty for it?

and If so.....better that you let it go, give thanks that it turned out well (in spite yourself) and you are still in a position to help another. //

Message follows......

Giving out of guilt is counter-productive because the consciousness of guilt calls forth condemnation.

You are doing a good thing there, so do it with a full heart and clear conscious.

It's Better to give nothing than to risk condemning another by giving out of guilt.



Isaiah 55:11 (RSV) so shall my word be that goes forth from my mouth; it shall not return to me empty, but it shall accomplish that which I purpose, and prosper in the thing for which I sent it.

Time in//

Did I set off your White Guilt Alarm?

Sorry, it isn't that.

I did something dickish to a homeless dude when I was younger.

He was stashing his belongings in the alley behind a bar I worked at and I put them in the trash.

His coat was in the bundle I tossed and I've always felt bad about doing that. So I do a coat drive every year.

Rainmaker
12-05-2015, 02:26 PM
Read today that the perpetrators met in Saudi Arabia. I do hope that the Russians go into that country and clean out the Wahaabi pestilence.


"In some parts of Saudi Arabia, particularly in the south, where Mrs. Hefthi was raised, the rate of marriage among blood relatives ranges from 55 to 70 percent, among the highest rates in the world, according to the Saudi government."

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/05/01/international/middleeast/01GENE.html

Rainmaker
12-05-2015, 03:29 PM
Did I set off your White Guilt Alarm?

Sorry, it isn't that.

I did something dickish to a homeless dude when I was younger.

He was stashing his belongings in the alley behind a bar I worked at and I put them in the trash.

His coat was in the bundle I tossed and I've always felt bad about doing that. So I do a coat drive every year.

Actually my post was about Karma. obviously it went over straight over your twisted little head....

But, since your pathological self-hatred makes you have to bring racism into every conversation, I'll say this....

It doesn't make you a good person when you give up your identity and self-respect just to prove to a bunch of emotionally manipulating assholes that you're "not a racist".

They're probably laughing at you anyway when they pawn the kid's coats 5 minutes after you leave, just to go buy some drugs.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-11-2015, 08:30 PM
Actually my post was about Karma. obviously it went over straight over your twisted little head....

But, since your pathological self-hatred makes you have to bring racism into every conversation, I'll say this....

It doesn't make you a good person when you give up your identity and self-respect just to prove to a bunch of emotionally manipulating assholes that you're "not a racist".

They're probably laughing at you anyway when they pawn the kid's coats 5 minutes after you leave, just to go buy some drugs.


Typical racist bullshit from you. Don't even try to backpedal and claim you were talking about karma.

I would not have any idea what people do with the coats I gather. I drop them off at a church and let them distribute them at one of their shelters.