PDA

View Full Version : North Korea Sinking of US Cargo Ship Prompts China-Russia Deployments



ACME_MAN
10-25-2015, 11:30 PM
Another interesting report. North Korea apparently trying to provoke us into doing something. Hopefully we had a couple of dozen rowboats following the Chinese and Russian ships. We have our pride to uphold you know. ; ) All kidding aside, it's nice to see militaries cooperating because when that happens you have less of a chance of something catastrophic happening.

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1931.htm

garhkal
10-27-2015, 03:39 AM
Another interesting report. North Korea apparently trying to provoke us into doing something. Hopefully we had a couple of dozen rowboats following the Chinese and Russian ships. We have our pride to uphold you know. ; ) All kidding aside, it's nice to see militaries cooperating because when that happens you have less of a chance of something catastrophic happening.

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1931.htm

Hm.. So rather than stir up something with NK, we just 'claim' that cargo ship went down in the Hurricane?

Mjölnir
10-27-2015, 04:02 AM
Hm.. So rather than stir up something with NK, we just 'claim' that cargo ship went down in the Hurricane?

The El Faro was lost in the Carribean during Hurricane Joaquin ... no where near North Korea or any NOrth Korean warships. Or are you saying the CHN or RU ships sank the El Faro?

UncaRastus
10-27-2015, 01:26 PM
Another Sorcha Faalian bit of tripe. WhatDoesItMean.com is well known for being worse than The National Enquirer, if one is looking for the truth.

If one is looking for a site to be told non facts, it is ideal, though.

Bos Mutus
10-27-2015, 04:23 PM
Another Sorcha Faalian bit of tripe. WhatDoesItMean.com is well known for being worse than The National Enquirer, if one is looking for the truth.

If one is looking for a site to be told non facts, it is ideal, though.

I don't think they are allowed to put it on the internet if it's not true.

Absinthe Anecdote
10-27-2015, 04:47 PM
The El Faro was lost in the Carribean during Hurricane Joaquin ... no where near North Korea or any NOrth Korean warships. Or are you saying the CHN or RU ships sank the El Faro?

It must be a very sophisticated torpedo, one that gets on the target ship's radio and talks to the Coast Guard for several hours about having lost propulsion.

UncaRastus
10-27-2015, 06:22 PM
Bos, you are correct. I am sorry. So so sorry ... hamburger!

What can I say? I enjoy Paul 'Pee-wee' Reubens' capers. He was framed for masturbating in a seedy cinema. I know this, because I read it on the internet.

ACME_MAN
10-27-2015, 08:45 PM
Yep. If this occurred as the report claims it did, and I have no reason to doubt it, then it constitutes an act of war. For a variety of reasons, the powers that be don't want to go that route at the present time. This gives them a chance to weigh what response will be dealt out. Clearly, the North Koreans will be gauging our response(as well as the Chinese and Russians) as a tepid one will no doubt encourage them to try something else. Personally, we should have lobbed a few bombs into NK decades ago like we did with Libya to show that we meant business.



Hm.. So rather than stir up something with NK, we just 'claim' that cargo ship went down in the Hurricane?

ACME_MAN
10-27-2015, 08:48 PM
This was a North Korean submarine. 50 were dispatched from North Korea recently and there mission is unknown. North Korea by the way has the largest submarine fleet in the world. Many do not know this.



The El Faro was lost in the Carribean during Hurricane Joaquin ... no where near North Korea or any NOrth Korean warships. Or are you saying the CHN or RU ships sank the El Faro?

garhkal
10-27-2015, 09:44 PM
The El Faro was lost in the Carribean during Hurricane Joaquin ... no where near North Korea or any NOrth Korean warships. Or are you saying the CHN or RU ships sank the El Faro?

I was being Sarcastic. It seems that site's Conspiracy theory machine is working overtime there.

MikeKerriii
10-27-2015, 10:25 PM
Hm.. So rather than stir up something with NK, we just 'claim' that cargo ship went down in the Hurricane?

What objection to you have to talking an approach based on reality, rather than one based on heavy doses of LSD?

Mjölnir
10-27-2015, 11:16 PM
Yep. If this occurred as the report claims it did, and I have no reason to doubt it, then it constitutes an act of war.

This really shows a lack of understanding of capability by the North Koreans & reality.

The North Koreans employ 4 classes of submarines, 2 are midget submarines incapable of transoceanic transit. Of the other 2 (Sang & Romeo) are diesel/electric and do not have the deployable range to get from North Korea to the Caribbean (where the FARO) was lost, especially since they would have to round the Tierra del Fuego on the southern tip of South America (cannot transit the polar ice cap and didn't transit the Panama Canal.) Even if they hand the range, they could not have transited that far in the time since they got underway to the loss of the FARO unless they traveled about 175% of their max (surface) speed (they go much slower submerged.)

Which is all kind of mute since the submarines began returning to port within a week of the sortie (before the FARO was lost.)

The problem with conspiracy theories is that they sound great to someone who doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.

Mjölnir
10-27-2015, 11:18 PM
I was being Sarcastic. It seems that site's Conspiracy theory machine is working overtime there.

Ah, my bad.

For some reason we have become an outlet for a Conspiracy Theory website. Reminds me of the Scottish anti-Royalist that used to post some really off wall stuff until he got so stupid about it he got banned.

waveshaper2
10-27-2015, 11:48 PM
It looks like NOAA and the National Hurricane Center need to update the Mariner's 1-2-3 rule by adding yet another new rule/reason to avoid sailing your ship into a "Hurricanes" path. This new rule "number 4" will advise mariners of the high probability of being sunk by a North Korean Submarine if you are foolish enough to ignore Rules 1-2-3 and still sail into the path of a Hurricane.

http://oceanservice.noaa.gov/facts/mariner123.html
Excerpt; The Mariner's 1-2-3 Rule is the guideline mariners follow to keep out of a tropical storm or hurricane's path. The Mariner's 1-2-3 rule, also referred to as the Danger Rule, is an important guideline mariners follow to keep out of a tropical storm or hurricane's path. It refers to the rounded long-term National Hurricane Center (NHC) forecast errors of 100-200-300 nautical miles at 24-48-72 hours, respectively.

ACME_MAN
10-27-2015, 11:52 PM
[QUOTE=Bos Mutus;359129]I don't think they are allowed to put it on the internet if it's not true.

Good point. I just saw a piece on the internet about how vaccines are safe for everybody. Glad the internet is here to give us the truth.

Like everything else, one has to exercise discernment and prudence as well as following those gut feelings. More often than not, the latter are the best thing to go by.

ACME_MAN
10-28-2015, 12:01 AM
This really shows a lack of understanding of capability by the North Koreans & reality.

The North Koreans employ 4 classes of submarines, 2 are midget submarines incapable of transoceanic transit. Of the other 2 (Sang & Romeo) are diesel/electric and do not have the deployable range to get from North Korea to the Caribbean (where the FARO) was lost, especially since they would have to round the Tierra del Fuego on the southern tip of South America (cannot transit the polar ice cap and didn't transit the Panama Canal.) Even if they hand the range, they could not have transited that far in the time since they got underway to the loss of the FARO unless they traveled about 175% of their max (surface) speed (they go much slower submerged.)

Which is all kind of mute since the submarines began returning to port within a week of the sortie (before the FARO was lost.)

The problem with conspiracy theories is that they sound great to someone who doesn't know what the hell they are talking about.

Here's a way around your presented obstacles. What if the North Koreans used a freighter to town the submarine to its intended destination? Did that ever occur to you? It's known as thinking outside the box(i.e. abandoning STATIC linear thinking). And midget submarines could easily be transported in a large transport plane I would think. Cuba would be a nice place for that plane to land. Those sub deployments happened nearly a month ago if I recall correctly.

ACME_MAN
10-28-2015, 12:08 AM
Ah, my bad.

For some reason we have become an outlet for a Conspiracy Theory website. Reminds me of the Scottish anti-Royalist that used to post some really off wall stuff until he got so stupid about it he got banned.

The "In Other News" section CLEARLY indicates under the heading that conspiracy posts are welcome in this section. I just had a thought about "stupid" right now, but but being older and wiser than some, I know that when I have nothing nice to say about someone I generally don't say anything. Some people could clearly learn from that.

Mjölnir
10-28-2015, 12:56 AM
As much as I hate to be trolled, this is quite ridiculous.


Here's a way around your presented obstacles. What if the North Koreans used a freighter to town the submarine to its intended destination?

How would they do that and:
1. Complete the towing operation in the time window between the sortie & the loss of the FARO? Even averaging 20kts (which wouldn't work if towing a submarine on the surface doesn't given that you are talking over 18k nautical miles days using shipping lanes (most direct route) in 30 days. Deviation from the shipping lanes would take even longer.
2. Remain undetected? I don't know if you have ever been at sea but the shipping lanes are like highways and you cross paths with other vessels pretty regularly including Naval vessels. If you avoid the shipping lanes you attract attention for being outside the shipping lanes. Is it possible, sure but so unlikely and based on the time / distance not at all plausible.



And midget submarines could easily be transported in a large transport plane I would think. Cuba would be a nice place for that plane to land.

How would they:
1. Drydock and transport a 25m or 32m submarine to an air facility to onload and conduct subsequent offload without detection?

Do you know how many airfields in Cuba are in proximity to the coast to allow offload of a submarine for transport to a drydock facility? Do you know how long it takes to drydock a vessel? Do you know how a submarine handles in hurricane weather (being round hulled, not well at all) ... especially the smaller ones.


Those sub deployments happened nearly a month ago if I recall correctly.

Over a month ago (late Aug) almost 50 subs got underway. Also, within a week over almost all had returned to home port (open source). The FARO was lost 01 Oct, after reporting its position inside the NW quadrant of the storm (the worst place for a storm moving NW) and that it was listing in excess of 15 degrees, taking on water and had lost propulsion.

It may be static linear thinking in this case to look at the facts, the time / distance math and the capabilities of the vessels, the logistical issues and match that with: experience at sea (on submarines and surface vessels), familiarity with the NK platforms, familiarity with drydocking operations as well as airlift and say that in this case 2+2 does = 4. I have a lot of experience in special operations and thinking outside the box, but it is overtly ridiculous to come up with a scenario that rivals a Tom Clancy novel so that North Korea could sink a merchant vessel.

Mjölnir
10-28-2015, 12:57 AM
The "In Other News" section CLEARLY indicates under the heading that conspiracy posts are welcome in this section. I just had a thought about "stupid" right now, but but being older and wiser than some, I know that when I have nothing nice to say about someone I generally don't say anything. Some people could clearly learn from that.

Older maybe, wiser ... based on this type of discussion ... :\

Absinthe Anecdote
10-28-2015, 01:25 AM
Another interesting report. North Korea apparently trying to provoke us into doing something. Hopefully we had a couple of dozen rowboats following the Chinese and Russian ships. We have our pride to uphold you know. ; ) All kidding aside, it's nice to see militaries cooperating because when that happens you have less of a chance of something catastrophic happening.

http://www.whatdoesitmean.com/index1931.htm

Yet another reason your theory holds no water.

If North Korea's goal was to "provoke us into doing something" then why secretly sink a ship on the other side of the world?

They have the means to provoke a conflict at their finger tips, if that was their goal.

They can fire artillery at Seoul, launch scud missiles at Osan Air Base, shoot an SA-5 at one of the near daily U-2 or Global Hawk missions.

When a country tries to provoke a response, they do it overtly.

If they want to be provocative they can, but not in the Caribbean Sea. I spent a chunk of my career studying North Korea's military forces. Their Navy does not have the capability to operate in the Caribbean.

None of what you are saying makes sense.

Bos Mutus
10-28-2015, 01:32 AM
Good point. I just saw a piece on the internet about how vaccines are safe for everybody. Glad the internet is here to give us the truth.

Like everything else, one has to exercise discernment and prudence as well as following those gut feelings. More often than not, the latter are the best thing to go by.

You are ridiculous man.

MikeKerriii
10-28-2015, 04:41 AM
Here's a way around your presented obstacles. What if the North Koreans used a freighter to town the submarine to its intended destination? Did that ever occur to you? It's known as thinking outside the box(i.e. abandoning STATIC linear thinking). And midget submarines could easily be transported in a large transport plane I would think. Cuba would be a nice place for that plane to land. Those sub deployments happened nearly a month ago if I recall correctly.

What would NK gain by secret sinking a poorly maintained freighter during a hurricane?

Does the the NK navy even have a torpedo that will operate under those conditions? Until the MK 48 the US did not?

How did the antiques submarines the NK navy operate avoid the SOSUS arrays?

Midget Submarines launching torpedoes in a full on Hurricane? That doesn't even make bad fan-fiction

Any decide that NK has midgets subs capable of the needed range and the miraculous level of seaworthiness required?

ACME_MAN
11-13-2015, 11:08 PM
They want to gauge our response. How we respond will determine if they ratch it up a notch or back off.



What would NK gain by secret sinking a poorly maintained freighter during a hurricane?

Does the the NK navy even have a torpedo that will operate under those conditions? Until the MK 48 the US did not?

How did the antiques submarines the NK navy operate avoid the SOSUS arrays?

Midget Submarines launching torpedoes in a full on Hurricane? That doesn't even make bad fan-fiction

Any decide that NK has midgets subs capable of the needed range and the miraculous level of seaworthiness required?

MikeKerriii
11-15-2015, 06:01 PM
They want to gauge our response. How we respond will determine if they ratch it up a notch or back off.

What will they learn from our reponse to a poorly maintained freighter going down in a major hurricane? There is no evidence of the NK being involved at all, and no evidence of them even having the technological capability to do so.

This Is stuff as crazy and the Jade Helm Walmart Conspiracies and flight MH870 being hijacked by the US government to Diego Garcia,

It is just silliness to raise fear among the stupid and the ignorant, mostly for profit, but occasionally from severe mental problems.

UncaRastus
11-15-2015, 06:12 PM
Mike, Acme_Man does a lot of posting of Sorcha Faal articles, as contained in the whatdoesitmean site, which are all a bit on the far side of theonion.com, a site where farce is their style.

Kick back and laugh, Mike. Even though conspiracists believe in what is posted, those of us with a more clear set of minds know better than to believe what the site posts.

MikeKerriii
11-15-2015, 07:05 PM
Mike, Acme_Man does a lot of posting of Sorcha Faal articles, as contained in the whatdoesitmean site, which are all a bit on the far side of theonion.com, a site where farce is their style.

Kick back and laugh, Mike. Even though conspiracists believe in what is posted, those of us with a more clear set of minds know better than to believe what the site posts.

I beilve the conspirators/crazies have reached the point where they are beginning to do real harm to the nation, Since the rise of the anti-vaxxers loons who are willing to kill kids, 911 truthers, and the credence given to the Jade Helm nut-jobs I have gone from laughing to worrying.

I find this "stuff' as funny as the heart attack I had last month or the angioplasty I am having tomorrow. Seeing a significant portion of our society willingly descend into madness is not all that funny, seeing both political parties use these lunatic groups for support is just obscene

UncaRastus
11-15-2015, 08:21 PM
Mike, I am sorry that you suffered a heart attack last month, and I am wishing the best for you with the upcoming angioplasty, tomorrow.

MikeKerriii
11-18-2015, 05:38 AM
Mike, I am sorry that you suffered a heart attack last month, and I am wishing the best for you with the upcoming angioplasty, tomorrow.

It all worked out well. back at home and feeling better than I have for quite a while.

ACME_MAN
11-22-2015, 12:10 AM
You say "it's just silliness to raise fear AMONG THE STUPID AND THE IGNORANT" . . . gave yourself away a bit with those comments. That's how the "elites" view the masses by and large, and that's exactly how they want to keep them . . . which does go a long way in explaining your continual put down of my submissions at this forum.
Think you could benefit from a refresher course at CIA disinfo school.



What will they learn from our reponse to a poorly maintained freighter going down in a major hurricane? There is no evidence of the NK being involved at all, and no evidence of them even having the technological capability to do so.

This Is stuff as crazy and the Jade Helm Walmart Conspiracies and flight MH870 being hijacked by the US government to Diego Garcia,

It is just silliness to raise fear among the stupid and the ignorant, mostly for profit, but occasionally from severe mental problems.

ACME_MAN
11-22-2015, 12:16 AM
Conpsiratorialists doing real harm to the nation, Mr. Keriii? PLEASE.

Rainmaker
11-22-2015, 12:34 AM
It all worked out well. back at home and feeling better than I have for quite a while.

And The Blood Thinners seem to have improved your Engrish!

MikeKerriii
11-22-2015, 03:34 AM
Conpsiratorialists doing real harm to the nation, Mr. Keriii? PLEASE.

Yes real harm to the Nation, people have enough real reasons to be worried with psychopaths like you scaring the gullible among them even more.

MikeKerriii
11-22-2015, 03:36 AM
And The Blood Thinners seem to have improved your Engrish!

Medication can due wonders, for example you would probably benefit from a bit of Thorazine