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Absinthe Anecdote
06-19-2015, 05:18 PM
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2015/06/19/how-god-divine-intervention-and-fox-and-friends-lead-this-woman-to-tip-police-to-location-of-at-large-shooting-suspect/

Actually watching Fox News, ‘Fox and Friends,’” Dills said, responding to “Fox and Friends” co-host Elizabeth Hasselback’s question of where she first saw images of the suspected killer, who was later identified as Dylann Roof. ”I don’t know why I paid closer attention. I’m calling it divine intervention. I believe God had a plan in it.”

Hasselback told Dills that she does think of her as a hero, but Dills still humbly deflected.

“Oh I’m not the hero, God’s the hero,” Dills said. “He used me. If we are a willing vessel, He can use us, but we’ve got to open up our hearts and our minds. I don’t know why He chose me … but he’s got to be glorified in all and everything. And He’s going to get the glory one way or the other and I hope it’s through me and I hope He’s pleased with me. I want Him to be pleased with me more than anything else.”

I want no part of Debbie Dills's God.

Her "hero" of a God chooses to ignore the frightened prayers of all those people in that church while nine people where being murdered.

Yet, God did step in to make Debbie pay attention to Fox News so the murdered could be captured.

According to Debbie Dills, God is so glory hungry that he does nothing to stop the murders, but steps in to make her alert enough to help catch the killer.

Debbie Dills is yet another Christian that spouts total nonsense without stopping to think what her claims imply about the nature of God.

Debbie is describing the actions of a monstrous and evil God.

A God who sent a young man into a church to murder nine people, so he could be glorified by his capture.

Matai
06-23-2015, 03:49 PM
I want no part of Debbie Dills's God.

And yet, here you are, again trying to bash on God.


Her "hero" of a God chooses to ignore the frightened prayers of all those people in that church while nine people where being murdered.

He did? Is that because you say so? Or because you have no visual proof that he did something you must make the statement that nothing was done?


Yet, God did step in to make Debbie pay attention to Fox News so the murdered could be captured.

You make this sound like it's a bad thing. If God did do this, then He did something wonderful and did in fact help out.


According to Debbie Dills, God is so glory hungry that he does nothing to stop the murders, but steps in to make her alert enough to help catch the killer.

So, God must do everything for everyone? You're reaching here. You are dismissing both the accountability and agency of the individual. God doesn't punish people on something they might do. He punishes people on actions actually taken. God didn't force anyone to do anything here. He will however reserve judgment and punishment based on the actions carried out. The individual exercised his God given agency and committed an heinous action; God (assuming Debbie is correct) then stepped in to ensure it couldn't happen again by ensuring the individual was identified and caught. That's a good thing.


Debbie Dills is yet another Christian that spouts total nonsense without stopping to think what her claims imply about the nature of God.

Debbie is describing the actions of a monstrous and evil God.

Not at all. God in fact allowed his child to exercise the agency he was given. His child did something wrong and then God stepped in to ensure he couldn't do it again. That is the act of a kind and loving God. You want God to just do everything and make everything easy. Your statements clearly show that you don't believe in agency or accountability. You want to blame God for everything bad, but not give credit where credit is due. Even when God does do something, it's not enough for you.

You spin everyone's words to fit your agenda. You use the same tired old arguments and don't offer any constructive arguments. "God did something I don't comprehend" or "God did something and I would've done it differently" therefore, God is a monster. It's clear that while you're capable of intelligent posts (based on previous discussion) you get caught up in your anger at God and become blinded by rage and all you can do is lash out.


A God who sent a young man into a church to murder nine people, so he could be glorified by his capture.

Cause there is so much proof that this is what happened?

meatbringer
06-23-2015, 04:11 PM
Mmmmmmm....Love me that daily dose of crazy.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-23-2015, 08:19 PM
You make this sound like it's a bad thing. If God did do this, then He did something wonderful and did in fact help out.



So, God must do everything for everyone? You're reaching here. You are dismissing both the accountability and agency of the individual. God doesn't punish people on something they might do. He punishes people on actions actually taken. God didn't force anyone to do anything here. He will however reserve judgment and punishment based on the actions carried out. The individual exercised his God given agency and committed an heinous action; God (assuming Debbie is correct) then stepped in to ensure it couldn't happen again by ensuring the individual was identified and caught. That's a good thing.



Not at all. God in fact allowed his child to exercise the agency he was given. His child did something wrong and then God stepped in to ensure he couldn't do it again. That is the act of a kind and loving God. You want God to just do everything and make everything easy. Your statements clearly show that you don't believe in agency or accountability. You want to blame God for everything bad, but not give credit where credit is due. Even when God does do something, it's not enough for you.

You spin everyone's words to fit your agenda. You use the same tired old arguments and don't offer any constructive arguments. "God did something I don't comprehend" or "God did something and I would've done it differently" therefore, God is a monster. It's clear that while you're capable of intelligent posts (based on previous discussion) you get caught up in your anger at God and become blinded by rage and all you can do is lash out.



Cause there is so much proof that this is what happened?

First of all, there is no proof of a god.

Second, if what Debbie Dills says is true, then God is a twisted piece of shit in my book.

He intervenes to make sure Debbie paid attention to Fox News, but does nothing to stop the shooting.

That is fucked up, and it is idiotic for you to try to support Debbie's claims.

Matai
06-24-2015, 04:51 PM
First of all, there is no proof of a god.

According to you. I have seen, heard, and experience enough to convince me that there is. You don't have to agree, that's fine. Using your same opinion, "First of all, there is no proof that God DOESN'Texist."


Second, if what Debbie Dills says is true, then God is a twisted piece of shit in my book.

He intervenes to make sure Debbie paid attention to Fox News, but does nothing to stop the shooting.

You wanting God to be twisted doesn't make it so. The louder you "rant, rave, and/or scream" about it, doesn't make it so. As I stated, God gave each us agency, the ability to choose our own actions. He will judge us based on what we do with that agency. God doesn't run around punishing people before they do something wrong. If I were to make a comment about you based on your comments (as you frequently do to others) it would read something like this, "Based on what you said, I can only assume that you run around beating children just in case they might do something wrong. You wouldn't wait to see if they actually do something wrong, but will intervene before it happens and give them a beat down just to make sure they don't." To me that's a twisted way of living your life.


That is fucked up, and it is idiotic for you to try to support Debbie's claims.

Your OPINION has been noted. I choose to see good where there is some. Yes, terrible things happen in the world all the time. I just don't have to blame God for every time someone does something terrible. I like to blame the person. If something good happens and someone wants to say God influenced it, I have no particular issue with someone being humble. I don't know for sure if God did or didn't do what Debbie claims. I just see no issue with her claim.

I'm not sure what the actual percentage of the world population believes in God (of any sort), but a quick Google search said 51%. It was from Christianpost.com. So, if that is referring to just Christians, then religious belief is higher when counting others. I find it difficult to believe that a full 50% of the world, some approximate 3.5 Billion people are completely wrong and crazy. You can choose to believe otherwise.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-24-2015, 05:49 PM
According to you. I have seen, heard, and experience enough to convince me that there is. You don't have to agree, that's fine. Using your same opinion, "First of all, there is no proof that God DOESN'Texist."



You wanting God to be twisted doesn't make it so. The louder you "rant, rave, and/or scream" about it, doesn't make it so. As I stated, God gave each us agency, the ability to choose our own actions. He will judge us based on what we do with that agency. God doesn't run around punishing people before they do something wrong. If I were to make a comment about you based on your comments (as you frequently do to others) it would read something like this, "Based on what you said, I can only assume that you run around beating children just in case they might do something wrong. You wouldn't wait to see if they actually do something wrong, but will intervene before it happens and give them a beat down just to make sure they don't." To me that's a twisted way of living your life.



Your OPINION has been noted. I choose to see good where there is some. Yes, terrible things happen in the world all the time. I just don't have to blame God for every time someone does something terrible. I like to blame the person. If something good happens and someone wants to say God influenced it, I have no particular issue with someone being humble. I don't know for sure if God did or didn't do what Debbie claims. I just see no issue with her claim.

I'm not sure what the actual percentage of the world population believes in God (of any sort), but a quick Google search said 51%. It was from Christianpost.com. So, if that is referring to just Christians, then religious belief is higher when counting others. I find it difficult to believe that a full 50% of the world, some approximate 3.5 Billion people are completely wrong and crazy. You can choose to believe otherwise.

You are being unresponsive to what I am saying, and you manage to contradict yourself.

You claim that God gave each of us the agency or will to act, in response to my claim that Debbie Dills is being absurd when she says that God made her pay attention to Fox News.

God had nothing to do with the killing, or the capture of that kid.

My point is this:

It is absurd to claim that God is great because the killer was captured, and not stop to think about why God didn't get involved in preventing the killings.

Debbie is insane for claiming to be an instrument of God, but yet you seem to have no trouble believing that God made her watch Fox News so the killer could be captured.

Why not take it a step further and question why this wonderful loving God didn't make the killer's gun misfire.

If he got involved and made Debbie watch Fox News, then why not save those nine people?

A God who acts the way you and Debboe describe, is far from perfect, far from loving, and anything but merciful.

It is idiotic to give God glory for the capture and not hold him accountable for the murder.

Matai
06-24-2015, 09:28 PM
You are being unresponsive to what I am saying, and you manage to contradict yourself.

You claim that God gave each of us the agency or will to act, in response to my claim that Debbie Dills is being absurd when she says that God made her pay attention to Fox News.

I went back and read your posts to make sure I didn't miss anything. I admit that I did. I was reading the article you posted at the beginning. I didn't interpret Debbie's comments as "God MADE me watch Fox News." Those are your words. So I apologize for not appropriately addressing your comments.

I can see how you would interpret her comments that way. I'm not sure I see it the same way. Maybe it's splitting hairs. She said she doesn't normally pay attention, but in this instance she did. She attributes it to God. She doesn't clarify, other than saying God used her. I would assume we're arguing over that particular statement and what it means. You are on the side that God made her (forced her to watch) and I'm on the opinion that He didn't force, but maybe prompted her to pay closer attention.


God had nothing to do with the killing, or the capture of that kid.

Entirely possible and the most likely scenario. I just don't have an issue with Debbie claiming that God inspired or prompted her to pay closer attention to the news. The outcome, capture of the shooter, is a good thing and that's great, no matter who is responsible.


My point is this:

It is absurd to claim that God is great because the killer was captured, and not stop to think about why God didn't get involved in preventing the killings.

I've already mentioned why He, possibly,didn't get involved. It's called agency. Additionally, there is the very real possibility that He was involved. He could have been prompting the shooter to not do what he did, only to be ignored. God respected the agency. You yourself wouldn't listen to God (if I've understood your comments correctly) and so this isn't far fetched. There is also the possibility that God did prevent further killings because the shooter could have chosen to pursue others, he didn't. What's to say God didn't do that? Not to mention that the Grandmother and small child (5 yrs I think) lived. Intervention there? Possible.


Debbie is insane for claiming to be an instrument of God, but yet you seem to have no trouble believing that God made her watch Fox News so the killer could be captured.

You are entitled to your opinion. When you think everyone who is religious insane, that particular comment doesn't carry that much weight. I've addressed the "made her watch" aspect above.


Why not take it a step further and question why this wonderful loving God didn't make the killer's gun misfire.

If he got involved and made Debbie watch Fox News, then why not save those nine people?

A God who acts the way you and Debboe describe, is far from perfect, far from loving, and anything but merciful.

It is idiotic to give God glory for the capture and not hold him accountable for the murder.

Your inability to grasp the nature of God and what His plan is, is your problem. God is not you. He doesn't have to act as you would have Him act. Just because He does something differently than the way you would do it, doesn't make Him what you think it does. His actions are perfectly in line with what He is trying to accomplish. You just don't like it. You want someone to do everything for you, make everything wonderful, and not have any problems, trials, or hardships in life. Unfortunately for you, that isn't God's plan. His plan is to make you grow and learn and become better. That involves facing hardship and trials. He allows agency, and as a result of that, some people will choose other than to follow God and accept Him. He isn't going to force belief on anyone.

Rainmaker
06-24-2015, 10:09 PM
I went back and read your posts to make sure I didn't miss anything. I admit that I did. I was reading the article you posted at the beginning. I didn't interpret Debbie's comments as "God MADE me watch Fox News." Those are your words. So I apologize for not appropriately addressing your comments.

I can see how you would interpret her comments that way. I'm not sure I see it the same way. Maybe it's splitting hairs. She said she doesn't normally pay attention, but in this instance she did. She attributes it to God. She doesn't clarify, other than saying God used her. I would assume we're arguing over that particular statement and what it means. You are on the side that God made her (forced her to watch) and I'm on the opinion that He didn't force, but maybe prompted her to pay closer attention.



Entirely possible and the most likely scenario. I just don't have an issue with Debbie claiming that God inspired or prompted her to pay closer attention to the news. The outcome, capture of the shooter, is a good thing and that's great, no matter who is responsible.



I've already mentioned why He, possibly,didn't get involved. It's called agency. Additionally, there is the very real possibility that He was involved. He could have been prompting the shooter to not do what he did, only to be ignored. God respected the agency. You yourself wouldn't listen to God (if I've understood your comments correctly) and so this isn't far fetched. There is also the possibility that God did prevent further killings because the shooter could have chosen to pursue others, he didn't. What's to say God didn't do that? Not to mention that the Grandmother and small child (5 yrs I think) lived. Intervention there? Possible.



You are entitled to your opinion. When you think everyone who is religious insane, that particular comment doesn't carry that much weight. I've addressed the "made her watch" aspect above.



Your inability to grasp the nature of God and what His plan is, is your problem. God is not you. He doesn't have to act as you would have Him act. Just because He does something differently than the way you would do it, doesn't make Him what you think it does. His actions are perfectly in line with what He is trying to accomplish. You just don't like it. You want someone to do everything for you, make everything wonderful, and not have any problems, trials, or hardships in life. Unfortunately for you, that isn't God's plan. His plan is to make you grow and learn and become better. That involves facing hardship and trials. He allows agency, and as a result of that, some people will choose other than to follow God and accept Him. He isn't going to force belief on anyone.


In the interest of time and as a public service Rainmaker will unlock the mystery of the universe for you two.

In Genesis 1:26 God gave man dominion over the Earth..... Therefore, Man is the operant power ON the Earth......... That is the Old Testament Law, otherwise known as the Law of Cause and effect. and it can be stated simply as "Karma is a Bitch".

Now, we are told....."For in much wisdom is much vexation, and he who increases knowledge increases sorrow."

or as the old dead Italians guys liked to say...."Poena Par Sapientia Bitches".

So, We can chose to take the hard road or we can chose the easy road given to us through Grace.... That is the New Testament Law, otherwise known as Golden rule. and can be stated simply as "Two wrongs don't make a right".

But, every step we take along the road we are always choosing one of the two Laws....shalom

Absinthe Anecdote
06-26-2015, 09:44 PM
I went back and read your posts to make sure I didn't miss anything. I admit that I did. I was reading the article you posted at the beginning. I didn't interpret Debbie's comments as "God MADE me watch Fox News." Those are your words. So I apologize for not appropriately addressing your comments.

I can see how you would interpret her comments that way. I'm not sure I see it the same way. Maybe it's splitting hairs. She said she doesn't normally pay attention, but in this instance she did. She attributes it to God. She doesn't clarify, other than saying God used her. I would assume we're arguing over that particular statement and what it means. You are on the side that God made her (forced her to watch) and I'm on the opinion that He didn't force, but maybe prompted her to pay closer attention.



Entirely possible and the most likely scenario. I just don't have an issue with Debbie claiming that God inspired or prompted her to pay closer attention to the news. The outcome, capture of the shooter, is a good thing and that's great, no matter who is responsible.



I've already mentioned why He, possibly,didn't get involved. It's called agency. Additionally, there is the very real possibility that He was involved. He could have been prompting the shooter to not do what he did, only to be ignored. God respected the agency. You yourself wouldn't listen to God (if I've understood your comments correctly) and so this isn't far fetched. There is also the possibility that God did prevent further killings because the shooter could have chosen to pursue others, he didn't. What's to say God didn't do that? Not to mention that the Grandmother and small child (5 yrs I think) lived. Intervention there? Possible.



You are entitled to your opinion. When you think everyone who is religious insane, that particular comment doesn't carry that much weight. I've addressed the "made her watch" aspect above.



Your inability to grasp the nature of God and what His plan is, is your problem. God is not you. He doesn't have to act as you would have Him act. Just because He does something differently than the way you would do it, doesn't make Him what you think it does. His actions are perfectly in line with what He is trying to accomplish. You just don't like it. You want someone to do everything for you, make everything wonderful, and not have any problems, trials, or hardships in life. Unfortunately for you, that isn't God's plan. His plan is to make you grow and learn and become better. That involves facing hardship and trials. He allows agency, and as a result of that, some people will choose other than to follow God and accept Him. He isn't going to force belief on anyone.

Your inability to accept the true nature of the universe and your own mortality is what causes you to cling to superstitions.

Your God was created by men who lived in the Bronze Age, and as a result he has the moral values of a Bronze Age man.

Since you are afraid of dying, you try to keep God alive. To do this, you'll make excuses fo God endorsing slavery, committing genocide and all other kinds of atrocities.

You explain them away by saying God has a mysterious plan.

When someone like Debbie Dills makes a stupid claim that God directed her to watch Fox News, you'll applaud and say, "See! God is Great!"

When something bad happens, like a gunman shooting nine of God's followers you go back to the mysterious plan cover story.

God doesn't force belief on anyone because he is our creation. The Christian God is no different than those stone heads on Easter Island.

It is the 21st century, it is time to set these creation myths aside.

Matai
06-29-2015, 06:10 PM
Your inability to accept the true nature of the universe and your own mortality is what causes you to cling to superstitions.

My inability to accept the true nature of the universe? LOL. Nice try. I have no issues with the universe. Our disagreement is based simply on how it come to be. You think it was random chance, I think there is a creator.


Your God was created by men who lived in the Bronze Age, and as a result he has the moral values of a Bronze Age man.

Your OPINION has been noted.


Since you are afraid of dying, you try to keep God alive. To do this, you'll make excuses fo God endorsing slavery, committing genocide and all other kinds of atrocities.

You explain them away by saying God has a mysterious plan.

I'm not afraid to die in the least. I would be more afraid if I didn't believe. I also don't make excuses to keep God alive. I simply understand that sometimes people are accountable for the situation of humanity and don't blame God when things don't go according to how I think they should be. I recognize a hand and a mind greater than mine own. Yes, it takes faith and hope that what I've been taught to believe is true. Unlike you, I can accept that there is something greater than myself.


When someone like Debbie Dills makes a stupid claim that God directed her to watch Fox News, you'll applaud and say, "See! God is Great!"

No exactly what I said, but yes I can accept that God stepped in to stop an individual from a repeat performance after that individual exercised his God given right of agency. God didn't punish him before his actions warranted it. You seem to think that God must live life for everyone and force everyone to be wonderful and happy and never make a mistake.


When something bad happens, like a gunman shooting nine of God's followers you go back to the mysterious plan cover story.

It's not that mysterious. It's quite simple really. God gave man agency to act for himself (herself). When man doesn't act in accordance with what God would have him or her do, I don't blame God for that. You seem to think that God forced this person to kill nine people. I tend to think that this person acted of his own volition. You just have a hard time with the simple concepts of agency and accountability for ones own actions.


God doesn't force belief on anyone because he is our creation. The Christian God is no different than those stone heads on Easter Island.

It is the 21st century, it is time to set these creation myths aside.

Well, considering you can visit, see, touch, and take samples of the stone heads on Easter Island, I would say that there is a big difference.

Bos Mutus
01-11-2017, 08:33 PM
I want no part of Debbie Dills's God.

Her "hero" of a God chooses to ignore the frightened prayers of all those people in that church while nine people where being murdered.

Yet, God did step in to make Debbie pay attention to Fox News so the murdered could be captured.

According to Debbie Dills, God is so glory hungry that he does nothing to stop the murders, but steps in to make her alert enough to help catch the killer.

Debbie Dills is yet another Christian that spouts total nonsense without stopping to think what her claims imply about the nature of God.

Debbie is describing the actions of a monstrous and evil God.

A God who sent a young man into a church to murder nine people, so he could be glorified by his capture.

I watched a movie this weekend called "The Trial"

So, this guys wife and children were tragically killed...as the movie opens, he has a gun to his head and is ready to off himself because of the grief and depression...and the phone rings.

It's a judge. The guy is a lawyer that basically quit after his wife and family were killed...anyway, the judge wants to assign him to fill in for the public defender and defend a kid facing a death sentence for murder...

The actual courtroom drama was pretty lame...but after losing the trial, he ends up digging up more evidence and getting the real killer, case dismissed.

Over the course of the movie, the lawyer is also dealing with his own grief and depression...and having to fight for this kid's life sort of gives him a purpose and all that.

So, at the end of the movie, he is talking to a grief support group and says,

"My life changed the minute I stopped asking God why my family was tragically killed, and started thanking him I wasn't"

Not withstanding, I think a better line would've been "...and started asking him why I wasn't" rather than "thanking him"

I think it would still be difficult to "thank" God in that circumstance...but finding a purpose in asking "why am I still here?" is a little different tone.