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View Full Version : Racist Remark Ends Two Star's Career



Mjölnir
05-11-2015, 11:42 PM
Air Force Times: http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/2015/05/04/racist-remark-ended-generals-career/26862657/


A racially charged comment forced Maj. Gen. Michael Keltz to resign last week, according to Air Education and Training Command.

While serving as the convening authority at a company-grade officer's Article 15 hearing April 9, Keltz said the accused and another officer looked "drunker than 10,000 Indians" while referring to a photograph of the two officers. Blogger and former airman Tony Carr first reported Keltz's comment on his John Q. Public blog, and AETC spokeswoman Maj. Toni Whaley confirmed the statement was made in regard to a photograph of the two officers.

As the convening authority in the Article 15 hearing, which was to determine whether the accused officer's nonjudicial punishment for an unspecified offense was too harsh, Keltz essentially served as both judge and jury.

Because of Keltz's remark, the accused officer's Article 15 was terminated, his punishment was voided, and no decision was made at the hearing, Whaley said. That officer's case has now been sent back to his commander, who will look at the facts and decide what disciplinary action -- if any -- is appropriate, Whaley said. If the commander does decide to impose another punishment, and if the accused officer again feels it is too harsh, the officer could request another hearing.

continued ...

sandsjames
05-12-2015, 11:20 AM
Air Force Times: http://www.airforcetimes.com/story/military/2015/05/04/racist-remark-ended-generals-career/26862657/


LMAO...never heard the "drunker than 10,000 Indians". Gonna have to remember that one.

I'm not going to stereotype, but I grew up in a place who's official name is Indian Valley. There are many, many Indians (who prefer to be called Indians, who support the Indian Head painting on the roof of the school, the Indian as the schools mascot, and the "squaw" mascot on the cheerleading squad"). Those guys can drink some alcohol.

Just to be clear...it's not stereotyping because I've personally witnesses what I'm talking about. I'd only see them at the bar in groups of 4 or 5 and they were pretty liquored up. I can only imagine 10,000 of them at the same time.

Oh...to relate it to this thread...even though his statement was probably accurate, he should know better.

Rollyn01
05-12-2015, 03:32 PM
LMAO...never heard the "drunker than 10,000 Indians". Gonna have to remember that one.

I'm not going to stereotype, but I grew up in a place who's official name is Indian Valley. There are many, many Indians (who prefer to be called Indians, who support the Indian Head painting on the roof of the school, the Indian as the schools mascot, and the "squaw" mascot on the cheerleading squad"). Those guys can drink some alcohol.

Just to be clear...it's not stereotyping because I've personally witnesses what I'm talking about. I'd only see them at the bar in groups of 4 or 5 and they were pretty liquored up. I can only imagine 10,000 of them at the same time.

Oh...to relate it to this thread...even though his statement was probably accurate, he should know better.

I think his comment is more towards a person acting "like a savage" when drunk than a NA's alcohol tolerance. If he had said Irish, he might have been more accurate with that or even invoking a Manchester U nut would have made sense. But, what can you do? Freudian slip, I guess.

sandsjames
05-12-2015, 03:39 PM
or even invoking a Manchester U nut would have made sense. Haters gonna hate!!!!!

Bos Mutus
05-12-2015, 05:38 PM
I think his comment is more towards a person acting "like a savage" when drunk than a NA's alcohol tolerance.

I don't think so. Native American and alcohol issues is a well known stereotype.

Although, I always thought it was because they typically have a low-tolerance and are especially prone to alcoholism

I've never heard this particular phrase...it was most definitely misguided for a 2-star to say in this setting...not sure it needed to be a career ender, but from his statements, it sounds like he was probably one of those guys that busted a million guys in his day under the "accountability" march, so at least had the decency to step down when the axe came his way.

garhkal
05-12-2015, 08:54 PM
What ever happened to being allowed to say what you want? Has society gotten so thin skinned that ANY phrase that can be taken by ANYONE as a slight now ruins lives?

sandsjames
05-12-2015, 09:08 PM
What ever happened to being allowed to say what you want? Has society gotten so thin skinned that ANY phrase that can be taken by ANYONE as a slight now ruins lives?

I agree, to a point, but this comment, by a guy who is supposed to be enforcing a "zero tolerance" policy, was idiotic.

Airborne
05-13-2015, 12:55 AM
What ever happened to being allowed to say what you want? Has society gotten so thin skinned that ANY phrase that can be taken by ANYONE as a slight now ruins lives?

"With great power comes great responsibility." The dude isn't a A1C yukking it up in the dayroom. He probably changed many peoples lives when he kicked them out or demoted them for lesser offenses, and if he hasnt he has the power to do so.
And just because your local tribe is cool with the term "Indian drunk" or your only black friend is cool with you saying the "n-word" doesnt make it right, carte blanche.

Bos Mutus
05-13-2015, 01:07 AM
What ever happened to being allowed to say what you want?

When has that ever been a thing??

Filterbing
05-13-2015, 01:20 PM
When has that ever been a thing??

Not that I agree with stereotyping or anything, I do hate this overly offended world we live in now.

Saying that something is offensive is basically telling the world that you can't control your emotions and you require everyone else to do it for you.

sandsjames
05-13-2015, 01:27 PM
Not that I agree with stereotyping or anything, I do hate this overly offended world we live in now.

Saying that something is offensive is basically telling the world that you can't control your emotions and you require everyone else to do it for you.

I think that the word "offensive" is used improperly in these situations. I don't find what he said "offensive" but I do find it "inappropriate".

MikeKerriii
05-14-2015, 03:43 AM
Oh...to relate it to this thread...even though his statement was probably accurate, he should know better.He ended his career by displaying a lack of commons sense, and for a general officer that is proper cause for giving him the boot the boot, It is not like this was in a casual conversation

MikeKerriii
05-14-2015, 03:47 AM
What ever happened to being allowed to say what you want? Has society gotten so thin skinned that ANY phrase that can be taken by ANYONE as a slight now ruins lives? Mitary folks have NEVER been able to say whatever they want. When do imagine that that was a reality?

Mjölnir
05-14-2015, 03:54 AM
What ever happened to being allowed to say what you want? Has society gotten so thin skinned that ANY phrase that can be taken by ANYONE as a slight now ruins lives?

1. I don't think it has been that way in a long, long time.

2. The ability to express yourself freely probably comes second to the expectation that an officer (in this case a Major General) conducts themselves professionally. Trying to channel Patton while conducting an NJP is a bad idea.

3. I would say that the accused in the NJP has a right to a fair, unbiased and professional proceeding, especially since the General was both judge and jury ... a statement like this just left open the air of bias or prejudice.

BT BT

Now, I not personally offended by he statement, but can see that it has the potential to offend, ergo is offensive (probably to native Americans.) Imagine a slightly differently worded comment:

"that Airman was running faster than a white kid in Detroit after dark."

sandsjames
05-14-2015, 10:48 AM
He ended his career by displaying a lack of commons sense, and for a general officer that is proper cause for giving him the boot the boot, It is not like this was in a casual conversationYes, I think we agree...though it sounds as if you're trying to make it sound like we don't.

sandsjames
05-14-2015, 10:50 AM
"that Airman was running faster than a white kid in Detroit after dark."Love this one. Leaves no doubt in my mind that the Airman is moving fast. Very descriptive. It's almost artistic.

garhkal
05-14-2015, 09:32 PM
Mitary folks have NEVER been able to say whatever they want. When do imagine that that was a reality?

It was more in general, relating to speech and people being offended so that 'speech' gets silenced, rather than just on about military folk.


BUT in a somewhat related news story, a black female subway employee who used facebook to 'celebrate' the killing of the 2 Hattisburg police officers was fired after a large amount of public uproar..

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/subway-employee-fired-posts-celebrating-police-deaths-30975939

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/12/mississippi-subway-employee-fired-after-celebrating-hattiesburg-police-deaths/

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/05/11/subway-sandwiches-fires-employee-who-cheered-hattiesburg-officerss-deaths/

MikeKerriii
05-17-2015, 10:30 PM
It was more in general, relating to speech and people being offended so that 'speech' gets silenced, rather than just on about military folk.


BUT in a somewhat related news story, a black female subway employee who used facebook to 'celebrate' the killing of the 2 Hattisburg police officers was fired after a large amount of public uproar..

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/subway-employee-fired-posts-celebrating-police-deaths-30975939

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2015/05/12/mississippi-subway-employee-fired-after-celebrating-hattiesburg-police-deaths/

http://www.breitbart.com/big-government/2015/05/11/subway-sandwiches-fires-employee-who-cheered-hattiesburg-officerss-deaths/

I was talking about what military people can say on duty or while representing the military in any way. There has never been freedom of speech there, especially in the judicial process

The Subway employee mentioned her employer and that gives them ground to can her read for being an idiots making the company look bad for employing her