PDA

View Full Version : 60 minutes piece on the "Master dead index'



garhkal
03-16-2015, 06:19 PM
Who here watched last night's 60 minutes piece on the frackas with the Social Security administrations Master dead index Titled "Dead or Alive".. In that piece, they were talking to 4 people who have been reported as dead to the SSA, and so had their bank accounts, credit history, ssn and other official stuff, blocked out/removed, and thus lost out on funds and had in some cases, to live on the street.
Then there was the opposite side of the spectrum where people who are listed as still being alive and still getting paid have been dead for YEARS, costing us a supposed 2 billion a year in fraudulent checks.

Having served with someone who's Sister DID have to pay back over 50K to the SSA cause of overpayments after her husband's death, reported seven times, some with certified mail to the SSA, along with instances myself, where i went to PSD cause of incorrectly receiving payments for something i shouldn't have, i know how painful it can be getting it all taken back Right there and then when they DO decide to get it back.
So what do you all think should be done to correct this?

Rainmaker
03-16-2015, 07:03 PM
Who here watched last night's 60 minutes piece on the frackas with the Social Security administrations Master dead index Titled "Dead or Alive".. In that piece, they were talking to 4 people who have been reported as dead to the SSA, and so had their bank accounts, credit history, ssn and other official stuff, blocked out/removed, and thus lost out on funds and had in some cases, to live on the street.
Then there was the opposite side of the spectrum where people who are listed as still being alive and still getting paid have been dead for YEARS, costing us a supposed 2 billion a year in fraudulent checks.

Having served with someone who's Sister DID have to pay back over 50K to the SSA cause of overpayments after her husband's death, reported seven times, some with certified mail to the SSA, along with instances myself, where i went to PSD cause of incorrectly receiving payments for something i shouldn't have, i know how painful it can be getting it all taken back Right there and then when they DO decide to get it back.
So what do you all think should be done to correct this?

Didn't watch it. But, Rainmaker's 2nd born Son had his SSN stolen 3 years ago. so, unfortunately we're familiar with the ramifications of dealing with this kind of thing He'll be commissioning in 2 months, so hopefully it doesn't affect him down the road.

As for What should be done about it? Well for starters the spineless CONgress should impeach the incompetent, corrupt, arrogant, narcissistic, Illegal, Indonesian ,Kenyan, alien, muslim, sociopathic, pathological liar, puppet on a string, fudge packer-in chief for his failure to enforce the laws of this country.

But, sadly there is no opposition party because the Rhinos sold out 25 years ago to the chamber of commerce's desire for free (slave) trade.They are more worried about the interests of 200,000 AIPAC members that fund the coffers than the American Citizens that they are sworn to represent. The good news is... SSN overpayments checks get spent at Wally World on cheap crap, so it's all good. Think of it as a stimulus package for the 8 year old kids chained to a table in a Chinese sweat shop.

sandsjames
03-16-2015, 07:20 PM
Didn't watch it. But, Rainmaker's 2nd born Son had his identity stolen 3 years ago. so, unfortunately we're familiar with the ramifications of this. He'll be commissioning in 2 months, so hopefully it doesn't affect him down the road.

As for What should be done about it? Well for starters the spineless CONgress should impeach the incompetent, corrupt, arrogant, narcissistic, Illegal, Indonesian ,Kenyan, alien, muslim, sociopathic, pathological liar, puppet on a string, fudge packer-in chief for his failure to enforce the laws of this country.

But, sadly there is no opposition party because the Rhinos sold out 25 years ago to the chamber of commerce's desire for free (slave) trade. They are more worried about the interests of 200,000 AIPAC members that fund the coffers than the American Citizens that they are sworn to represent.

Cuz there was never identity theft and fraud before 2008...

Rainmaker
03-16-2015, 07:28 PM
Cuz there was never identity theft and fraud before 2008...

here....I'll type it for you again. Try to read more slowly and actually sound out the letters...
"the Rhinos sold out 25 years ago to the chamber of commerce's desire for free (slave) trade"
Test... Test... wun too tree....

INGUARD
03-16-2015, 07:46 PM
I found the segment about women officers attempting the officer infantry course much more interesting than the master death list

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/female-marines-women-in-combat-60-minutes/

sandsjames
03-16-2015, 08:21 PM
here....I'll type it for you again. Try to read more slowly and actually sound out the letters...
"the Rhinos sold out 25 years ago to the chamber of commerce's desire for free (slave) trade"
Test... Test... wun too tree....

So if your point was about 25 years ago then why the racist, pointless, disgraceful rant? Even if it's part of your schtick it's ridiculous. What you need to do is grow up, just a little bit, or go crawl back into your fallout shelter and work on trimming the edges of your mustache.

garhkal
03-16-2015, 09:20 PM
Didn't watch it. But, Rainmaker's 2nd born Son had his SSN stolen 3 years ago. so, unfortunately we're familiar with the ramifications of dealing with this kind of thing He'll be commissioning in 2 months, so hopefully it doesn't affect him down the road.


Sorry to hear about your son. Did they ever catch the one who stole his ID? Did you hear what punishment was levelled?


I found the segment about women officers attempting the officer infantry course much more interesting than the master death list

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/female-marines-women-in-combat-60-minutes/

I loved that piece too. Especially that the Marines did NOT dumb down the fitness requirements for the course just so women could pass.

Rainmaker
03-17-2015, 02:43 AM
So if your point was about 25 years ago then why the racist, pointless, disgraceful rant? Even if it's part of your schtick it's ridiculous. What you need to do is grow up, just a little bit, or go crawl back into your fallout shelter and work on trimming the edges of your mustache.

I'm talking about the last 25 + years running. What's Racist and Ridiculous is the 30:1 ratio of minority to white immigration in this country, The Fed .gov is openly discriminating against Caucasian immigrants. so, you can spare me the emasculated PC Self-righteous liberal routine cause, it ain't flyin here Bucko

Capt Alfredo
03-17-2015, 07:45 AM
I'm talking about the last 25 + years running. What's Racist and Ridiculous is the 30:1 ratio of minority to white immigration in this country, The Fed .gov is openly discriminating against Caucasian immigrants. so, you can spare me the emasculated PC Self-righteous liberal routine cause, it ain't flyin here Bucko

Oh no! Minorities! They's be evil, yo!

Rusty Jones
03-17-2015, 10:17 AM
Oh no! Minorities! They's be evil, yo!

That's the problem with alot of RM's posts. There's typical everyday racist shit that you see anywhere... and then there's straight up supremacist shit, and alot of RM's posts cross that line. Alot of the things he says sounds like things you'd only hear from card-carrying members of Neo Nazi groups or Klansmen.

sandsjames
03-17-2015, 10:21 AM
That's the problem with alot of RM's posts. There's typical everyday racist shit that you anywhere... and then there's straight up supremacist shit, and alot of RM's posts cross that line. Alot of the things he says sounds like things you'd only hear from card-carrying members of Neo Nazi groups or Klansmen.

Yep. And the mods allow it to continue, for some reason.

sandsjames
03-17-2015, 10:24 AM
I'm talking about the last 25 + years running. What's Racist and Ridiculous is the 30:1 ratio of minority to white immigration in this country, The Fed .gov is openly discriminating against Caucasian immigrants. so, you can spare me the emasculated PC Self-righteous liberal routine cause, it ain't flyin here Bucko

But the only President you mention is the current one. Is that because you feel that until 2008 it wasn't the fault of the President, just congress? Or is it because you need any excuse you can to get your racist rants out there?

And for Garkhal to actually "like" that post isn't surprising at all.

Rainmaker
03-17-2015, 11:14 AM
That's the problem with alot of RM's posts. There's typical everyday racist shit that you see anywhere... and then there's straight up supremacist shit, and alot of RM's posts cross that line. Alot of the things he says sounds like things you'd only hear from card-carrying members of Neo Nazi groups or Klansmen.

You and the rest of the PC Marxist Brigade are talking out of your ass ( like you always do). So, tell me of the following adjectives which one sounds like something you'd only hear from a card carrying Neo Nazi?

incompetent,
corrupt,
arrogant,
narcissistic,
Illegal,
Indonesian ,
Kenyan,
Alien,
muslim,
sociopathic,
pathological liar,
puppet on a string,
fudge packer

Rusty Jones
03-17-2015, 11:34 AM
You and the rest of the PC Marxist Brigade are talking out of your ass ( like you always do). So, tell me of the following adjectives which one sounds like something you'd only hear from a card carrying Neo Nazi?

In this particular thread, I was actually referring to THIS post:


I'm talking about the last 25 + years running. What's Racist and Ridiculous is the 30:1 ratio of minority to white immigration in this country, The Fed .gov is openly discriminating against Caucasian immigrants. so, you can spare me the emasculated PC Self-righteous liberal routine cause, it ain't flyin here Bucko

Rainmaker
03-17-2015, 11:52 AM
But the only President you mention is the current one. Is that because you feel that until 2008 it wasn't the fault of the President, just congress?

No, sandsjames it's because that was then and this is now. But, your PC programming prevents you from being able to make any coherent value judgement (other than to decree opposing points of view as Racist or Bigoted).

You have been indoctrinated into the collectivist mentality and don't even know it. and Rainmaker can prove it. Don't believe me? Obama is a ______________.

There, No need to answer. But, What was the 1st word that popped into your head?

If you said what Rainmaker figures you said.... Then, It is not your fault, you are a victim of class warfare.... Divide and conquer.... same as it always was....Now, that Rainmaker has taught you the truth, you have a duty to resist this. Otherwise, You will be known affectionately as a useful idiot and you are obviously incapable of critical thinking.

Rainmaker
03-17-2015, 12:07 PM
In this particular thread, I was actually referring to THIS post:

So, what? Noticing the conspicuous lack of white Immigrants makes one a Neo Nazi?

Rainmaker
03-17-2015, 12:23 PM
Oh no! Minorities! They's be evil, yo!

Show me one post where Rainmaker has EVER said minorities are "Evil"....

What is racist?? It's not "racist" to observe racial differences, because That is REALITY. It may not be Politically Correct or even offensive to you personally. But, it's not Racist

It SHOULD be considered racist to exclude a person on purely racial attributes, if they meet all the other attributes required.

Here's an example statement. "white girls getting assaulted by black dudes. Happens nearly 100 times a day in the United States, The Media says basically nothing, the government tolerates it and a cowardly white population accepts this". If I say that statement then does that make me a Racist ? or does that just make me observant or not "Politically Correct"? What do you think?

You guys throw the word Racist around too loosely. . You've been conditioned to do it. It was designed to place individuals, who notice what's going on and speak out about it, in a defensive posture, stifle all debate and obscure the truth

Have you ever heard the story of the boy who cried wolf? No one cares anymore. True Racism is a disease of mind, If you are finding racism everywhere you look, then you have obviously have never met a true racist.

Now if you Bitches will excuse me. Rainmaker has to get back to the Bunker. It's mustache March. Out.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
03-17-2015, 01:57 PM
Oh no! Minorities! They's be evil, yo!

With relatively few exceptions, it's mostly minorities (due to culture, not skin color) that keep voting for the unsustainable "free stuff" that will ultimately bankrupt our nation. And with few exceptions, it's Democrats that support this spending spree (with borrowed money)...just as long as it doesn't come from their own pocket books.

Tell me, how many years will it take before entitlement spending consumes 100% of GDP? Do you know? Do you care? Didn't think so! I know, I'm a bigot, racist, homophobe...

sandsjames
03-17-2015, 02:57 PM
No, sandsjames it's because that was then and this is now. But, your PC programming prevents you from being able to make any coherent value judgement (other than to decree opposing points of view as Racist or Bigoted).

You have been indoctrinated into the collectivist mentality and don't even know it. and Rainmaker can prove it. Don't believe me? Obama is a ______________.

There, No need to answer. But, What was the 1st word that popped into your head? I don't need to insert a word. You pretty much already did that.

"...incompetent, corrupt, arrogant, narcissistic, Illegal, Indonesian ,Kenyan, alien, muslim, sociopathic, pathological liar, puppet on a string, fudge packer-in chief for his failure to enforce the laws of this country."




If you said what Rainmaker figures you said.... Then, It is not your fault, you are a victim of class warfare.... Divide and conquer.... same as it always was....Now, that Rainmaker has taught you the truth, you have a duty to resist this. Otherwise, You will be known affectionately as a useful idiot and you are obviously incapable of critical thinking.

That's where you are delusional. My "critical thinking" is just fine. I can dislike the President for his policies, as I do, but it has nothing to do with most of the things on your list. I guess if it's "PC" to not blame the incompetence on his race, religion, or origin of his family then maybe I am PC.

It's psychopathic rants like yours that are the exact reason that real criticism of the President are dismissed. People like you make it impossible for those who actually disagree with is policies based on the policies themselves to be taken seriously.

The irony is that the opposition to the current policies and perceived criminal acts would actually make much more progress if the small number of extremists like you just kept your pathetic rants at your family reunions.

sandsjames
03-17-2015, 03:06 PM
Have you ever heard the story of the boy who cried wolf? No one cares anymore. True Racism is a disease of mind, If you are finding racism everywhere you look, then you have obviously have never met a true racist.



Noticing race and discussing race isn't racist. Using race/origin in a description of why you don't like a person is racist. Not only is it racism, it's hate based off of racism. You don't just dislike Obama because you disagree with him. You hate everything about him because he's
"Illegal, Indonesian, Kenyan, Alien, muslim..."

sandsjames
03-17-2015, 03:14 PM
With relatively few exceptions, it's mostly minorities (due to culture, not skin color) that keep voting for the unsustainable "free stuff" that will ultimately bankrupt our nation. And with few exceptions, it's Democrats that support this spending spree (with borrowed money)...just as long as it doesn't come from their own pocket books.

That's a perfectly valid and coherent argument, even if one disagrees with it. What would make it racist and bigoted is if you blamed it on the current President by using irrelevant points about where he's from and how he looks. You didn't do that.


Tell me, how many years will it take before entitlement spending consumes 100% of GDP? Do you know? Do you care? Didn't think so! Funny that the same argument was made 65 years ago with Social Security. Yet here we are. I agree that social spending changes, welfare reform, and immigration reform are much needed. I don't, however, buy into the doomsday arguments made about it.

SomeRandomGuy
03-17-2015, 03:30 PM
With relatively few exceptions, it's mostly minorities (due to culture, not skin color) that keep voting for the unsustainable "free stuff" that will ultimately bankrupt our nation. And with few exceptions, it's Democrats that support this spending spree (with borrowed money)...just as long as it doesn't come from their own pocket books.

Tell me, how many years will it take before entitlement spending consumes 100% of GDP? Do you know? Do you care? Didn't think so! I know, I'm a bigot, racist, homophobe...


I'm not a liberal so I'm probably not the best person to explain this. I will take a shot at it anyways. The people voting for this "free stuff" know it's not free. They simply don't care though.

Let's say you live in Section 8 Housing, Collect Food Stamps and Cash Assistance and also have Medicaid for free. You do all this while working a minimum wage job which pays you under the poverty line which is about $17K per year. You don't have any education other than a HS diploma so you are never getting a better job. You literally depend on this "free stuff" just to survive. Why would you ever vote to take it away for the good of other people?

Who even cares about the future of this country? These people are just trying to keep food on the table and the electric on. Put yourself in that situation and then explain to me why you would ever vote to screw yourself over for the good of someone else. Especially considering the people who could pay a little more (the super rich) aren't willing to give anything back in the form of higher taxes. Yeah I get it the rich earned their money. They derserve it yada yada yada. With that being said, them paying more won't force them to become homeless. If they aren't willing to give up stuff they don't need why would a poor person give up "free stuff" they do need?

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
03-17-2015, 03:45 PM
I'm not a liberal so I'm probably not the best person to explain this. I will take a shot at it anyways. The people voting for this "free stuff" know it's not free. They simply don't care though.

Let's say you live in Section 8 Housing, Collect Food Stamps and Cash Assistance and also have Medicaid for free. You do all this while working a minimum wage job which pays you under the poverty line which is about $17K per year. You don't have any education other than a HS diploma so you are never getting a better job. You literally depend on this "free stuff" just to survive. Why would you ever vote to take it away for the good of other people?

Who even cares about the future of this country? These people are just trying to keep food on the table and the electric on. Put yourself in that situation and then explain to me why you would ever vote to screw yourself over for the good of someone else. Especially considering the people who could pay a little more (the super rich) aren't willing to give anything back in the form of higher taxes. Yeah I get it the rich earned their money. They derserve it yada yada yada. With that being said, them paying more won't force them to become homeless. If they aren't willing to give up stuff they don't need why would a poor person give up "free stuff" they do need?

I agree that if you are dependent on the "free stuff," then you'd be insane to vote to take it away. My issue is that the dependency numbers are increasing, yet many believe the solution is simply "tax the rich more." Setting aside the fact that it is NOT fair to just take more money from those YOU deem as having "earned enough," it is not a sustainable solution. Being "rich" is not a title you simply keep for life, it is something you must earn, then maintain. It is not a fixed number, so the necessity to redefine what income is considered "rich" (lower incomes that qualify) is inevitable with the progressive rationale (tax the rich more). Also, you can tax the "rich" 100% and still not come close to reducing the $500 billion or so deficits we are running. Yes, deficits are projected to go down, but only for a few years. CBO already projects deficits to shoot back up to the $1 trillion level within 5 or so years. So, asking the "rich" to "pay their fair share" isn't a solution. Doesn't come close.

Rusty Jones
03-17-2015, 04:26 PM
I'm not a liberal so I'm probably not the best person to explain this. I will take a shot at it anyways. The people voting for this "free stuff" know it's not free. They simply don't care though.

Let's say you live in Section 8 Housing, Collect Food Stamps and Cash Assistance and also have Medicaid for free. You do all this while working a minimum wage job which pays you under the poverty line which is about $17K per year. You don't have any education other than a HS diploma so you are never getting a better job. You literally depend on this "free stuff" just to survive. Why would you ever vote to take it away for the good of other people?

Who even cares about the future of this country? These people are just trying to keep food on the table and the electric on. Put yourself in that situation and then explain to me why you would ever vote to screw yourself over for the good of someone else. Especially considering the people who could pay a little more (the super rich) aren't willing to give anything back in the form of higher taxes. Yeah I get it the rich earned their money. They derserve it yada yada yada. With that being said, them paying more won't force them to become homeless. If they aren't willing to give up stuff they don't need why would a poor person give up "free stuff" they do need?

This has been talked about many times, only not so much in taxing rich people more. It's more in the form of minimum wage. Places like Walmart and McDonald's are fully aware that their wages are low enough for full time employees to qualify for public assistance, and they even disseminate that information to their employees. What does that mean? Our tax dollars are part of their compensation package. Why should these companies pay employees with their own money, when they can use ours instead?

This is why I don't get all of these arguments against raising minimum wage. Seems to me, people who are against it are more concerned with shutting down people they accuse of having an "entitlement" mentality, and less about how it affects their own money. Basically, cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

I remember a few years ago, Swtizerland came up with a program (which I discussed here) that some people in the US started considering: give everyone in America who is at least 18 years or older, regardless of other income or net worth, $25,000 a year. EVERYONE would over the age of 18 would get it - you, me, millionaires, and billionaires.

The catch? There were two:

1. Minimum wage would be abolished
2. ALL other "entitlement" programs go away. This replaces SNAP, TANF, ALL forms of social security income, unemployment, etc. In addition to these programs going away, additional costs would be saved by no longer having to manage all of the existing programs; so a good number of federal and state jobs would be cut.

Technically, something like this is a Libertarian's wet dream. But then, you had people like WJ5 - who fancies himself a Libertarian, but I really believe that he's a Libertarian bandwagon jumper like many over the past ten years - who's more angry at the fact that people would be getting this money, while not giving two shits about anything else. That's not being a Libtertarian; that's being EXACTLY who the GOP is targeting with the Southern Strategy.

Rainmaker
03-17-2015, 05:01 PM
People like you make it impossible for those who actually disagree with is policies based on the policies themselves to be taken seriously.

The irony is that the opposition to the current policies and perceived criminal acts would actually make much more progress if the small number of extremists like you just kept your pathetic rants at your family reunions.

No, Rainmaker don't hate Obama, because unlike you, He knows that Obama's only a tool of Brzezinski and the rest of the Trilateralists and their banker friends that put him there .

Obama's a paid actor. Did You see him doing his Reverend act at Selma?

" You see....Mah Grandfatha in Kenya wuz a cook to tha British"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=95KC7CF5B9E . and on and on it goes.... It would be comical if it wasn't so sad.

I guess morons like you figure that he must've picked up that accent at Columbia Law school or maybe it was at The Punahou School in Hawaii? I heard they talk like that out there.

The GOP Congress should impeach him, for all the reasons I list.However, they won't because they're owned by these same people, that've orchestrated a silent coup.

These people care nothing about the conditions of this country, They view themselves as Citizens of the world not the United States. They let him get away with this shit, So, long as can print unlimited amounts of money at the common man's inflationary expense.

The problem is not with "extremists" drowning out the reasonable voices. The problem is with the useful idiot propagandists like yourself that can't get beyond the Das Rayciiiiissttt meme, that has been beat into their heads for 50 years....

What happens when you intentionally create a huge class of desperate people within the borders of the United States?

Free your mind and your ass will follow.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
03-17-2015, 05:52 PM
This has been talked about many times, only not so much in taxing rich people more. It's more in the form of minimum wage. Places like Walmart and McDonald's are fully aware that their wages are low enough for full time employees to qualify for public assistance, and they even disseminate that information to their employees. What does that mean? Our tax dollars are part of their compensation package. Why should these companies pay employees with their own money, when they can use ours instead?

This is why I don't get all of these arguments against raising minimum wage. Seems to me, people who are against it are more concerned with shutting down people they accuse of having an "entitlement" mentality, and less about how it affects their own money. Basically, cutting off their noses to spite their faces.

I remember a few years ago, Swtizerland came up with a program (which I discussed here) that some people in the US started considering: give everyone in America who is at least 18 years or older, regardless of other income or net worth, $25,000 a year. EVERYONE would over the age of 18 would get it - you, me, millionaires, and billionaires.

The catch? There were two:

1. Minimum wage would be abolished
2. ALL other "entitlement" programs go away. This replaces SNAP, TANF, ALL forms of social security income, unemployment, etc. In addition to these programs going away, additional costs would be saved by no longer having to manage all of the existing programs; so a good number of federal and state jobs would be cut.

Technically, something like this is a Libertarian's wet dream. But then, you had people like WJ5 - who fancies himself a Libertarian, but I really believe that he's a Libertarian bandwagon jumper like many over the past ten years - who's more angry at the fact that people would be getting this money, while not giving two shits about anything else. That's not being a Libtertarian; that's being EXACTLY who the GOP is targeting with the Southern Strategy.

First of all, I am in favor of having a safety net...a temporary one to help willing, able-bodied folks to get back on their feet. Too many able-bodied people receive "assistance" for LIFE.

Secondly, I believe most people who receive assistance do so because they CHOSE to live beyond their means. Minimum wage was NEVER intended to support the family you chose to have, but couldn't afford to begin with.

Third, 70% of the economy is driven by small business (not Wallmart). How do you propose the average small business owner, who works 70-80 hours per week and makes maybe around $100K, pay for doubling their labor costs (increase to $15 per hour)? Surely you don't expect these hard working owners, who've risked everything to start this business, to take a massive pay cut, do you? I suspect if I were the owner I would find ways to cut costs or save money. Perhaps reduced operating hours to reduce staff requirements (i.e., fewer jobs), automation, or maybe higher product/service costs? Let's be real and discuss the reality of how raising minimum wage will impact the small business owner, shall we?

Rusty Jones
03-17-2015, 05:59 PM
First of all, I am in favor of having a safety net...a temporary one to help willing, able-bodied folks to get back on their feet. Too many able-bodied people receive "assistance" for LIFE.

Secondly, I believe most people who receive assistance do so because they CHOSE to live beyond their means. Minimum wage was NEVER intended to support the family you chose to have, but couldn't afford to begin with.

Third, 70% of the economy is driven by small business (not Wallmart). How do you propose the average small business owner, who works 70-80 hours per week and makes maybe around $100K, pay for doubling their labor costs (increase to $15 per hour)? Surely you don't expect these hard working owners, who've risked everything to start this business, to take a massive pay cut, do you? I suspect if I were the owner I would find ways to cut costs or save money. Perhaps reduced operating hours to reduce staff requirements (i.e., fewer jobs), automation, or maybe higher product/service costs? Let's be real and discuss the reality of how raising minimum wage will impact the small business owner, shall we?

That's easy - when was the last time you've been to a Chinese restaurant, or a Filipino owned tailor shop? Or how about a store or cheap motel owned by Indians and Pakistanis? The ability to hire staff and put them on a payroll is a luxury that certain businesses can't afford, so they don't do it. They have family working in the restaurants and the stores, and they share the profits. You do that first, you grow your business, and THEN... maybe you start hiring a staff to put on payroll.

garhkal
03-17-2015, 06:00 PM
That's the problem with alot of RM's posts. There's typical everyday racist shit that you see anywhere... and then there's straight up supremacist shit, and alot of RM's posts cross that line. Alot of the things he says sounds like things you'd only hear from card-carrying members of Neo Nazi groups or Klansmen.



And for Garkhal to actually "like" that post isn't surprising at all.

I liked it only cause i see you and RJ being the 'liberal leftists' while RM seems to be more of a right wing conservative. As to the subject, YES more than Obama have done little in stopping the Illegal immigrant problem, but if you note, NONE have gone as far as Obama in hamstringing the border patrol or INS in actually arresting and deporting illegals.



Here's an example statement. "white girls getting assaulted by black dudes. Happens nearly 100 times a day in the United States, The Media says basically nothing, the government tolerates it and a cowardly white population accepts this". If I say that statement then does that make me a Racist ? or does that just make me observant or not "Politically Correct"? What do you think?

Combine that with the # of times under Holder's DOJ, that when a WHITE commits a crime against a black, you always here the race of both the offender AND the victim along with instant cries of "It must be a hate crime", but switch it around and the victim is white (or some other ethnicity) while the perp is black, and it is RARE you ever hear the races mentioned in the press, and you get Crickets in regards to whether it was a hate crime. EVEN when there were witnesses saying that the perp was shouting "I'll get you cracker".. or something else of the like. Heck, this govt can't even bring it self to acknowledge when a person screams Allua Ackba, while rushing someone with a Machette or shooting guns, that it was an act of Islamic extremism, it was only "Work place violence"..


You guys throw the word Racist around too loosely. . You've been conditioned to do it. It was designed to place individuals, who notice what's going on and speak out about it, in a defensive posture, stifle all debate and obscure the truth


Exactly. It seems the left is so quick to rush to judgement in labeling something as being Racist, when its whites who they are judging, but barely even want to acknowledge that a black person can be equally as racist if not more.
Case and point with that recent fraternity frackas, where there was a tape made public about the racist chants on the bus. We have all probably heard a lot WORSE in rap songs in relation to racist rantings. So why is the bus chant 'OMG we need to expel these bad people and ruin their lives forever', while rap artists get a pass?


With relatively few exceptions, it's mostly minorities (due to culture, not skin color) that keep voting for the unsustainable "free stuff" that will ultimately bankrupt our nation. And with few exceptions, it's Democrats that support this spending spree (with borrowed money)...just as long as it doesn't come from their own pocket books.

Tell me, how many years will it take before entitlement spending consumes 100% of GDP? Do you know? Do you care? Didn't think so! I know, I'm a bigot, racist, homophobe...

And add to that, which group is it that is doing all they can to wipe out the Illegal immigrant phrase/wording. Not republicans. Not middle americans.

Rusty Jones
03-17-2015, 06:04 PM
Minimum wage was NEVER intended to support the family you chose to have, but couldn't afford to begin with.

You mind showing me where it says this in the FLSA when it established the minimum wage?

Minimum wage in the late 1960's could support a family. It was $1.25 an hour. Ten dollars bought you a week's worth of groceries at the time. That's eight hours worth of minimum wage work.

Good luck like buying a week's worth of groceries on $58 today.

Rainmaker
03-17-2015, 06:19 PM
You mind showing me where it says this in the FLSA when it established the minimum wage?

Minimum wage in the late 1960's could support a family. It was $1.25 an hour. Ten dollars bought you a week's worth of groceries at the time. That's eight hours worth of minimum wage work.

Good luck like buying a week's worth of groceries on $58 today.

That's because they are devaluing the dollar through massive money printing, and then suppressing wages by importing millions of low skill workers that directly compete for jobs, with blacks and poor whites, when we no longer need a mass labor economy.

The cost of any increase to the minimum wage ultimately ends up being paid for by the Citizens.

That said, Given the choice as a tax payer, I'd rather pay for a living wage for someone that's working than an EBT card for someone sitting on their ass.

Rainmaker
03-17-2015, 06:41 PM
I liked it only cause i see you and RJ being the 'liberal leftists' while RM seems to be more of a right wing conservative. As to the subject, YES more than Obama have done little in stopping the Illegal immigrant problem, but if you note, NONE have gone as far as Obama in hamstringing the border patrol or INS in actually arresting and deporting illegals.
.

And this is an example of what I'm talking about. You trying to explain to sandsjames why you "like" something that goes against his PC worldview. These morons are like childish babies constantly throwing a tantrum whenever they don't get the response they wanted. Notice how he starts attacking my family? This is typical of these hypocritical Cretins. Rainmaker refuses to give in to these lunatics. It's gotten so insane that Rainmaker's local fish wrapper, won't even mention the race of the suspects in it's crime reports. when giving the descriptions of dangerous at-large criminals you get gems like this..." Home invasion. woman raped at gunpoint . Assailant is described as a 6' - 180 lb male, aged between 18 and 40, with bad breath, and wearing a blue shirt and driving a car. Suspect is Considered armed and dangerous, so Be on the lookout!"

TJMAC77SP
03-17-2015, 08:06 PM
That's easy - when was the last time you've been to a Chinese restaurant, or a Filipino owned tailor shop? Or how about a store or cheap motel owned by Indians and Pakistanis? The ability to hire staff and put them on a payroll is a luxury that certain businesses can't afford, so they don't do it. They have family working in the restaurants and the stores, and they share the profits. You do that first, you grow your business, and THEN... maybe you start hiring a staff to put on payroll.

I was going to state my complete surprise at the absurdity of this answer but.....................I was completely unsurprised.

Flaps presented a cogent argument that is often ignored by the '$15 minimum wage crowd'. There are a lot of different factors and considerations which can be discussed, pro and con. Instead you come up with this.

"That's easy"..............at least I got a chuckle from the post.

TJMAC77SP
03-17-2015, 08:17 PM
You mind showing me where it says this in the FLSA when it established the minimum wage?

Minimum wage in the late 1960's could support a family. It was $1.25 an hour. Ten dollars bought you a week's worth of groceries at the time. That's eight hours worth of minimum wage work.

Good luck like buying a week's worth of groceries on $58 today.

Probably because minimum wage and living wage are separate and the FLSA doesn't mention living wage.

How many did your $10 dollars of groceries feed? I can feed one person on $58 dollars a week.

sandsjames
03-17-2015, 10:02 PM
Again, if getting annoyed by you constantly using derogatory terms to describe "other than white males" means I'm PC then so be it. And I'm glad to know that I'm being described as a leftist liberal for simply disliking the terms you use.

Rusty Jones
03-17-2015, 10:03 PM
I was going to state my complete surprise at the absurdity of this answer but.....................I was completely unsurprised.

Flaps presented a cogent argument that is often ignored by the '$15 minimum wage crowd'. There are a lot of different factors and considerations which can be discussed, pro and con. Instead you come up with this.

"That's easy"..............at least I got a chuckle from the post.

If what I said is so absurd, then why don't you try to dispute it? But before you do that, I thought I'd tell you that I'm working under the table as a deliveryman for a pizza shop that's doing exactly what I'm talking about.

Rollyn01
03-17-2015, 10:40 PM
If what I said is so absurd, then why don't you try to dispute it? But before you do that, I thought I'd tell you that I'm working under the table as a deliveryman for a pizza shop that's doing exactly what I'm talking about.

Shh... I want to see if he can make me laugh. I'm getting my popcorn ready. :D

Rollyn01
03-17-2015, 11:00 PM
I agree that if you are dependent on the "free stuff," then you'd be insane to vote to take it away. My issue is that the dependency numbers are increasing, yet many believe the solution is simply "tax the rich more." Setting aside the fact that it is NOT fair to just take more money from those YOU deem as having "earned enough," it is not a sustainable solution. Being "rich" is not a title you simply keep for life, it is something you must earn, then maintain. It is not a fixed number, so the necessity to redefine what income is considered "rich" (lower incomes that qualify) is inevitable with the progressive rationale (tax the rich more). Also, you can tax the "rich" 100% and still not come close to reducing the $500 billion or so deficits we are running. Yes, deficits are projected to go down, but only for a few years. CBO already projects deficits to shoot back up to the $1 trillion level within 5 or so years. So, asking the "rich" to "pay their fair share" isn't a solution. Doesn't come close.

With off-shore accounts and tax shelters, it's already hard enough to get them to pay taxes that they are suppose to be paying now. Add to that the exploitation of loopholes in the tax code, including many in regards to corporate taxes, many of the "rich" seem to somehow avoid paying their "fair share". The increase in dependency is in response to the lack of sustainable careers available to the general public and the increasing of cost of living. A minimum wage job should not be considered the equivalent of a sustainable career, but for many, it's the only option available. So, with that said, and in order to sustain themselves and their family, what is someone to do?

Rainmaker
03-18-2015, 12:15 AM
Again, if getting annoyed by you constantly using derogatory terms to describe "other than white males" means I'm PC then so be it. And I'm glad to know that I'm being described as a leftist liberal for simply disliking the terms you use.

Interesting....so, are you able to state specifically, Which of the derogatory terms that Rainmaker "constantly uses to describe other than white males", that annoys you? If so, Rainmaker will make a note of it so as not to hurt your feelings anymore. I seem to recall someone starting a thread on that a while back.

anyhow, when you answer don't forget about that pesky rule #9 of ours "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour"

Rainmaker
03-18-2015, 12:40 AM
Sorry to hear about your son. Did they ever catch the one who stole his ID? Did you hear what punishment was levelled?



I loved that piece too. Especially that the Marines did NOT dumb down the fitness requirements for the course just so women could pass.


Not to my knowledge. We found out when I tried to file my federal tax return for 2011, I had gotten an extesnion and it was rejected, when i tried to e-file. He Pulled a credit report and sure enough, multiple accounts opened and in default. I actually just settled that return with the IRS a few months ago. They have millions of these cases every year, so .irs don't seem to be very interested in stopping it. It's been a pretty big hassle. his credit was ruined but i think we've cleaned it up, so, hopefully it won't affect his clearance

TJMAC77SP
03-18-2015, 02:20 AM
If what I said is so absurd, then why don't you try to dispute it? But before you do that, I thought I'd tell you that I'm working under the table as a deliveryman for a pizza shop that's doing exactly what I'm talking about.

Dispute your completely asinine citation of what Chinese, Filipino, Indians and Pakistanis allegedly use as a business model? Did you learn that while getting your MBA? BTW: There is a twinge of racism in that stereotype.

So your answer to succeeding in business is to have large families and employ them at low or zero wages until the business is a success?

That is what you want me to dispute?

I think it does that all by itself.

TJMAC77SP
03-18-2015, 02:21 AM
Shh... I want to see if he can make me laugh. I'm getting my popcorn ready. :D

I would assume the RJ's post would have already provided amusement enough.

garhkal
03-18-2015, 04:47 AM
If what I said is so absurd, then why don't you try to dispute it? But before you do that, I thought I'd tell you that I'm working under the table as a deliveryman for a pizza shop that's doing exactly what I'm talking about.

So you admit to working under the table.. And how is that not hurting the work force having all these "Paid for cash" workers not getting included in the workforce #s and such?


With off-shore accounts and tax shelters, it's already hard enough to get them to pay taxes that they are suppose to be paying now. Add to that the exploitation of loopholes in the tax code, including many in regards to corporate taxes, many of the "rich" seem to somehow avoid paying their "fair share". The increase in dependency is in response to the lack of sustainable careers available to the general public and the increasing of cost of living. A minimum wage job should not be considered the equivalent of a sustainable career, but for many, it's the only option available. So, with that said, and in order to sustain themselves and their family, what is someone to do?

And how is using the law like that, any less of a rip on taxpayers than all the times people cheat the system,like illegals claiming 3-4 kids (who live BACK in Mexico and other countries) that are not theirs, or EITC and other stuff when Means testing would prove that they shouldn't be entitled to it.


Not to my knowledge. We found out when I tried to file my federal tax return for 2011, I had gotten an extesnion and it was rejected, when i tried to e-file. He Pulled a credit report and sure enough, multiple accounts opened and in default. I actually just settled that return with the IRS a few months ago. They have millions of these cases every year, so .irs don't seem to be very interested in stopping it. It's been a pretty big hassle. his credit was ruined but i think we've cleaned it up, so, hopefully it won't affect his clearance

Strange. Last year's taxes i failed to report 1.2k earned from cashing in bonds, and i got a letter for what i owed within 4 months AFTER doing my taxes. Seems like they are quick on the ball when someone is doing the right thing. Guess catching welfare/irs cheats is not a big deal.

Rusty Jones
03-18-2015, 09:34 AM
Dispute your completely asinine citation of what Chinese, Filipino, Indians and Pakistanis allegedly use as a business model? Did you learn that while getting your MBA? BTW: There is a twinge of racism in that stereotype.

So your answer to succeeding in business is to have large families and employ them at low or zero wages until the business is a success?

That is what you want me to dispute?

I think it does that all by itself.

You're still not making an attempt to dispute it. You're attacking it as racist or maybe questioning whether or not it's a good business model, but you're still not making an attempt to back up your denial that this is what's happening.

I will also point out to you that the pizza shop that I work for is not owned by anyone of any of those ethnic groups, and that I can also point other types of businesses that do the same thing. The examples that I gave, however, are the ones that are going to be visible to more people.

Rusty Jones
03-18-2015, 09:41 AM
So you admit to working under the table.. And how is that not hurting the work force having all these "Paid for cash" workers not getting included in the workforce #s and such?

The way I see it, I'm helping out a friend who is actually trying to position his business to able support a legit paid staff. Currently, he, his wife, and his sons all work there.

And this is the part that TJ is failing to understand. These are families working together to get businesses off the ground. Not cases of someone enslaving others.

Again, like I said to FLAPS, this is something that small businesses can do until they can afford higher minimum wages.

sandsjames
03-18-2015, 11:00 AM
Interesting....so, are you able to state specifically, Which of the derogatory terms that Rainmaker "constantly uses to describe other than white males", that annoys you? If so, Rainmaker will make a note of it so as not to hurt your feelings anymore. I seem to recall someone starting a thread on that a while back.

anyhow, when you answer don't forget about that pesky rule #9 of ours "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour"

Specifically? Ok...what would being Kenyan, Indonesian, "fudge-packer", muslim", etc have to do with any of it? It's all about the context, and your post used those descriptions as a way to discredit the policies.

You can disagree with the policies as much as you want. Just keep the criticisms relevant and they will aide making your opinions credible.

And please show me where I "attacked" your family? Did you get your feelings hurt? Should I use nicer terms so as not to offend?

TJMAC77SP
03-18-2015, 11:49 AM
You're still not making an attempt to dispute it. You're attacking it as racist or maybe questioning whether or not it's a good business model, but you're still not making an attempt to back up your denial that this is what's happening.

I will also point out to you that the pizza shop that I work for is not owned by anyone of any of those ethnic groups, and that I can also point other types of businesses that do the same thing. The examples that I gave, however, are the ones that are going to be visible to more people.

Actually my comment about it being racist was mostly tongue-in-cheek. Borrowing a page from a book you use often.



Pointing out the completely flawed business model is indeed 'disputing' your off-the-wall examples.

I will repeat...........................

"So your answer to succeeding in business is to have large families and employ them at low or zero wages until the business is a success?

That is what you want me to dispute?

I think it does that all by itself."

Now you have an addendum to the RJ Business Model.......................

Pay your employees 'under the table' avoiding all income, social security, and medicare taxes while at the same time robbing your employees of the value to those entitlement programs for their future life.

I really think you need to send your MBA back to whatever institution gave it to you.

TJMAC77SP
03-18-2015, 11:51 AM
The way I see it, I'm helping out a friend who is actually trying to position his business to able support a legit paid staff. Currently, he, his wife, and his sons all work there.

And this is the part that TJ is failing to understand. These are families working together to get businesses off the ground. Not cases of someone enslaving others.

Again, like I said to FLAPS, this is something that small businesses can do until they can afford higher minimum wages.

I am failing to see anything. You are failing to see that using that example as a model for business success is flawed on so many levels as to be ridiculous, asinine, a joke.....................whatever fits.

Rusty Jones
03-18-2015, 12:04 PM
Actually my comment about it being racist was mostly tongue-in-cheek. Borrowing a page from a book you use often.

Pointing out the completely flawed business model is indeed 'disputing' your off-the-wall examples.

I will repeat...........................

"So your answer to succeeding in business is to have large families and employ them at low or zero wages until the business is a success?

That is what you want me to dispute?

I think it does that all by itself."

Now you have an addendum to the RJ Business Model.......................

Pay your employees 'under the table' avoiding all income, social security, and medicare taxes while at the same time robbing your employees of the value to those entitlement programs for their future life.

When all of the people working there are considered partners who are deciding what to do with the revenue, there's technically no wrongdoing involved.

I'm going to say this again: I'm helping out a friend who's trying to grow a business. On a typical night of delivery, I go home with between $60 to $80 a night, which includes my wages. I've delivered for two other restaurants in the area on a legit payroll, and I used to bring home that amount on tips and delivery fees alone - and still had a biweekly check to look forward too. Could I easily go somewhere else and so the same? No doubt. But, like I said, I'm helping someone out. Considering the fact that it's only a side gig anyway, I'm not really hurting for money or in need of any entitlement programs.


I really think you need to send your MBA back to whatever institution gave it to you.

I think you need to get one first before you continue to talk out of your ass.


I am failing to see anything.

And everything.


You are failing to see that using that example as a model for business success is flawed on so many levels as to be ridiculous, asinine, a joke.....................whatever fits.

Nope, I'm not. It works, many people have done it. Hell, that's how the local Golden City chain of Chinese restaurants around here started out, and some of the stores are still doing that.

Rainmaker
03-18-2015, 12:13 PM
Specifically? Ok...what would being Kenyan, Indonesian, "fudge-packer", muslim", etc have to do with any of it? It's all about the context, and your post used those descriptions as a way to discredit the policies.

You can disagree with the policies as much as you want. Just keep the criticisms relevant and they will aide making your opinions credible.

And please show me where I "attacked" your family? Did you get your feelings hurt? Should I use nicer terms so as not to offend?

What a whole lot of shit. You really do have a hole in your head were your ass belongs. I've used all those terms a grand total of Once. I'm sure you had the Chris Mathews tingle up your leg when you punched your ballot for Diversity. But, try not to get your panties in a bunch every time this imposter gets called out.

There are White Muslims, White Indonesians (called blues), White Kenyans and White Fudge-packers. There's nothing Inherently Racist about any of those terms.

You're the one that automatically assigns your negative meaning to it and calls it Racist. You should really think about becoming a full time protestor for Obama. They love having hypocritical, hair-brained, white-apologists constantly playing into the victim-villian game for them. Maybe you can go wash some illegal immigrant feet down at the Starbucks, so you can pat yourself on the back over how much you're doing for humanity.

Basically it comes down to this. A man either wants to be respected or he wants to be pitied. He can't have it both ways. None of these groups will ever get anywhere so long as they have idiots like you running around and playing right into the hands of the Marxist agenda

TJMAC77SP
03-18-2015, 12:37 PM
Oh come on Rusty. This discussion is getting completely stupid. I meant my original comment about giving back your MBA as a joke but now I am beginning to see it as another Harris Teeter on Colonial kind of thing.

Let’s goback and review.

You posted this tripe………………


That's easy - when was the last time you've been to a Chineserestaurant, or a Filipino owned tailor shop? Or how about a store or cheapmotel owned by Indians and Pakistanis? The ability to hire staff and put themon a payroll is a luxury that certain businesses can't afford, so they don't doit. They have family working in the restaurants and the stores, and they sharethe profits. You do that first, you grow your business, and THEN... maybe youstart hiring a staff to put on payroll.

…………in response to Flaps post,,,,,,,,,,


First of all, I am in favor of having a safety net...a temporary one to help willing, able-bodied folks to get back on their feet. Too many able-bodied people receive "assistance" for LIFE.

Secondly, I believe most people who receive assistance do so because they CHOSE to live beyond their means. Minimum wage was NEVER intended to support thefamily you chose to have, but couldn't afford to begin with.

Third, 70% of the economy is driven by small business (not Wallmart). How do you propose the average small business owner, who works 70-80 hours per week and makes maybe around $100K, pay for doubling their labor costs (increase to$15 per hour)? Surely you don't expect these hard working owners, who've risked everything to start this business, to take a massive pay cut, do you? I suspect if I were the owner I would find ways to cut costs or save money. Perhaps reduced operating hours to reduce staff requirements (i.e., fewer jobs),automation, or maybe higher product/service costs? Let's be real and discuss the reality of how raising minimum wage will impact the small business owner,shall we?

So, in answer to Flaps pointing out the dangers of raising the minimum wage to $15 your response and suggested business model is one which is used by a very small minority of businesses and that is to employ family members and pay them nothing or very little. Of course this would necessitate having large families so there is also that. As a modification of this business model you would pay people off books, not paying the employer or employee share of income,social security, Medicare, unemployment or worker’s compensation taxes and/orfees. Ignoring what this does to the economic future of the employee of the overall effect it has on the national economy.

Oh come on. Just admit it was an ill-advised response which was poorly thought out. While I have no hopes you will do that (history repeats itself after all) just stop attempting to defend it. It is not amusing anymore it is sad.

BTW....I am pretty sure you know I meant to say that I am NOT failing to see anything.

EDIT: I am not even going to touch your equally silly premise that everyone who works in a family business or under the table for an employer ........." are considered partners who are deciding what to do with the revenue..........."

Rusty Jones
03-18-2015, 12:54 PM
Oh come onRusty. This discussion is getting completely stupid.

This happens every time you feel the need to interject on behalf of someone else - which you have a habit of doing. If you're getting tired of it, maybe you should stop.


I meant myoriginal comment about giving back your MBA as a joke but now I am beginning tosee it as another Harris Teeter on Colonial kind of thing.

We already established what happened (i.e., them being bought out by Kroger) in between the last time I was at Harris Teeter and the time of that discussion. You bringing that up is invalid.


Let’s goback and review.

You postedthis tripe………………



…………inresponse to Flaps post,,,,,,,,,,
[QUOTE=FLAPS,USAF (ret);352403]First of all, I am in favor of having a safety net...atemporary one to help willing, able-bodied folks to get back on their feet. Toomany able-bodied people receive "assistance" for LIFE.

Secondly, I believe most people who receive assistance do so because they CHOSEto live beyond their means. Minimum wage was NEVER intended to support thefamily you chose to have, but couldn't afford to begin with.

Third, 70% of the economy is driven by small business (not Wallmart). How doyou propose the average small business owner, who works 70-80 hours per weekand makes maybe around $100K, pay for doubling their labor costs (increase to$15 per hour)? Surely you don't expect these hard working owners, who've riskedeverything to start this business, to take a massive pay cut, do you? I suspectif I were the owner I would find ways to cut costs or save money. Perhapsreduced operating hours to reduce staff requirements (i.e., fewer jobs),automation, or maybe higher product/service costs? Let's be real and discussthe reality of how raising minimum wage will impact the small business owner,shall we?

So, inanswer to Flaps pointing out the dangers of raising the minimum wage to $15your response and suggested business model is one which is used by a verysmall minority of businesses and that is to employ family members and pay them nothingor very little. Of course this wouldnecessitate having large families so there is also that. As a modification of this business model youwould pay people off books, not paying the employer or employee share of income,social security, Medicare, unemployment or worker’s compensation taxes and/orfees. Ignoring what this does to theeconomic future of the employee of the overall effect it has on the nationaleconomy.

Oh comeon. Just admit it was an ill-advisedresponse which was poorly thought out. While I have no hopes you will do that (history repeats itself after all)just stop attempting to defend it. It isnot amusing anymore it is sad.

I have no plans to go into business for myself. I didn't go to school to start my own mom & pop shop; I went to school so I would wear a tie and carry a briefcase. That's pretty much what business schools are geared toward in the first place, unless you're specializing in entrepreneurship.

Let's get down to the bottom line here: What you wanted was for me to be stumped by FLAPS' attempt at a rhetorical question; obviously, because you agree with the point that he's trying to make. This is why you got involved in the conversation in the first place. You don't like my response, so all you do is call it "asinine" and a bunch of other words. When I challenge you to dispute what I said, your response is that what I said does that itself (or something to that effect). In other words, you copped out. You want FLAPS' point to stand, but it doesn't.


BTW....I am pretty sure you know I meant to say that I am NOT failing to see anything.

Do you expect someone to care in an online pissing contest?

Rollyn01
03-18-2015, 01:31 PM
And how is using the law like that, any less of a rip on taxpayers than all the times people cheat the system,like illegals claiming 3-4 kids (who live BACK in Mexico and other countries) that are not theirs, or EITC and other stuff when Means testing would prove that they shouldn't be entitled to it.

Possibly due to the amount of money involved? I would think that if someone is cheating the government out of $2000 vs. someone who is cheating them out of $200,000, they would go after the both equally (with preference to the one of $200,000). However, it seems that they have no problem going after the small change people and makes them out to be the worst of the bunch. As for those who are illegal, you mean to tell me corporations don't do the same thing when they file taxes? Filing foreign subsidiaries as non-entities of their company so that they can have less taxes levied against them and get tax credits(the opposite to achieve the same goal)?

Rainmaker
03-18-2015, 01:48 PM
So you admit to working under the table.. And how is that not hurting the work force having all these "Paid for cash" workers not getting included in the workforce #s and such?



And how is using the law like that, any less of a rip on taxpayers than all the times people cheat the system,like illegals claiming 3-4 kids (who live BACK in Mexico and other countries) that are not theirs, or EITC and other stuff when Means testing would prove that they shouldn't be entitled to it.



Strange. Last year's taxes i failed to report 1.2k earned from cashing in bonds, and i got a letter for what i owed within 4 months AFTER doing my taxes. Seems like they are quick on the ball when someone is doing the right thing. Guess catching welfare/irs cheats is not a big deal.

Yes, luckily it was my last year in service, so they actually owed me money. So, it took quite a while to resolve. From what I understand about a year is avg. Every time you get a letter and call them, you have to go through the whole story all over. Most of the employees are incompetent and they don't seem to have a system for keeping notes. So, if this happens to you It's best just to correspond via letter or better yet just pay someone to negotiate the shit-show for you. It's extremely frustrating.

These days I make a pretty good income and pay what I consider to be more than my fair share in taxes (enough to comfortably support a couple of other adults). So, anyhow, when you're getting shaken down by the IRS you have one of 2 choices, either work less and so you make less money or find a way to generate more passive income. A good strategy is to form An LLC and rent the house you live in to yourself, so you can take more write offs.

Once, you get to a certain level of income the IRS will constantly send you Fishing letters and your likelihood of getting audited (to see if there's anything else you might owe) goes way up.

This IRS targeting citizens for harassment, is one of the many reasons Obama should've be impeached. But, he gets a pass on it from the corrupted Congress and the willfully blind idiots like sandsjames (who think it's raycist to expect a president to follow the law)

TJMAC77SP
03-18-2015, 01:52 PM
This happens every time you feel the need to interject on behalf of someone else - which you have a habit of doing. If you're getting tired of it, maybe you should stop.



We already established what happened (i.e., them being bought out by Kroger) in between the last time I was at Harris Teeter and the time of that discussion. You bringing that up is invalid.



I have no plans to go into business for myself. I didn't go to school to start my own mom & pop shop; I went to school so I would wear a tie and carry a briefcase. That's pretty much what business schools are geared toward in the first place, unless you're specializing in entrepreneurship.

Let's get down to the bottom line here: What you wanted was for me to be stumped by FLAPS' attempt at a rhetorical question; obviously, because you agree with the point that he's trying to make. This is why you got involved in the conversation in the first place. You don't like my response, so all you do is call it "asinine" and a bunch of other words. When I challenge you to dispute what I said, your response is that what I said does that itself (or something to that effect). In other words, you copped out. You want FLAPS' point to stand, but it doesn't.



Do you expect someone to care in an online pissing contest?

I joined the discussion because I found your response silly, and still do.

Actually the only thing established by your claim about the Harris Teeter on Colonial is that you flat out lied, pure and simple. Harris Teeter has accepted all forms of food stamps and other like assistance at every store since the programs were established. The Kroger buyout has zero to do with it. You attempted to make a point by lying and were caught. There is that chance it has happened again.

I never brought up you going into business for yourself but your comments now have me thinking that what started as a bit of a joke might have hit closer to the truth than anticipated. The study of business models is at the least an integral part of every MBA. Interesting that you seem to be asserting that only those with a focus on entrepreneurship would be well versed in this.

As usual when backed into a corner you resort to stating as factual my thoughts and motivations, despite a lack of any evidence to the contrary. Flaps comments were articulate and on point but they certainly don't tell the whole story and there is a wealth of counterpoints you could have made.........had you actually had anything of substance to add. Instead we get the RJ business model which, excuse me, but is again, just laughable. I don't like your response. I scoff at the very premise of it. That has nothing to do with agreeing with Flaps but everything to do with thinking your response was asinine and not well thought out.

Rusty Jones
03-18-2015, 02:35 PM
I joined the discussion because I found your response silly, and still do.

Yet you still make no attempt to dispute what I said. You don't like what I said, and still... all you've got is "that's asinine!"

Please, come up with something more. If you can.


Actually the only thing established by your claim about the Harris Teeter on Colonial is that you flat out lied, pure and simple. Harris Teeter has accepted all forms of food stamps and other like assistance at every store since the programs were established.

Show me something dated 2010 or earlier that states this. It's time to put up or shut up.


The Kroger buyout has zero to do with it. You attempted to make a point by lying and were caught. There is that chance it has happened again.

Cognitive dissonance.


I never brought up you going into business for yourself but your comments now have me thinking that what started as a bit of a joke might have hit closer to the truth than anticipated. The study of business models is at the least an integral part of every MBA. Interesting that you seem to be asserting that only those with a focus on entrepreneurship would be well versed in this.

Let me explain to you again, so you can understand: business schools are more about getting their graduates to enter to the corporate world and move up those corporate ladders. Not to start their own mom & pop shops. Granted, someone with a business degree would be able to run their business more effectively than if they did not have it - as they'd have the advanced education in marketing and accounting, and everything like that - but what does an owner of a mom & pop shop need to know about valuation of stock & bonds, or anything that's taught in managerial statistics? What do they need to know about advanced labor laws that don't apply to them, because they don't have enough employees - and will likely never have enough, unless their business has that "it" factor propels them into a regional chain? Again, that's education that's geared toward those entering the existing corporate world.

Get your business degree, and then come back and talk. Until then... again, you're talking out of your ass.


As usual when backed into a corner you resort to stating as factual my thoughts and motivations, despite a lack of any evidence to the contrary. Flaps comments were articulate and on point but they certainly don't tell the whole story and there is a wealth of counterpoints you could have made.........had you actually had anything of substance to add. Instead we get the RJ business model which, excuse me, but is again, just laughable. I don't like your response. I scoff at the very premise of it. That has nothing to do with agreeing with Flaps but everything to do with thinking your response was asinine and not well thought out.

Where's your attempt to dispute? Oh, it's not there. Nothing but gibberish, bud. Nothing but gibberish. You don't like the business model I suggested, and that's all there is to it. Nothing else.

sandsjames
03-18-2015, 02:49 PM
This IRS targeting citizens for harassment, is one of the many reasons Obama should've be impeached. But, he gets a pass on it from the corrupted Congress and the willfully blind idiots like sandsjames (who think it's raycist to expect a president to follow the law)

Nope. I agree completely that the President has broken laws and should be held accountable for those crimes. Unless you can show me proof of me stating otherwise then you are talking out your ass.

You should really toughen up and quit getting your feelings hurt about this stuff. You're falling into the liberal trap.

TJMAC77SP
03-18-2015, 03:47 PM
Yet you still make no attempt to dispute what I said. You don't like what I said, and still... all you've got is "that's asinine!"

Please, come up with something more. If you can.



Show me something dated 2010 or earlier that states this. It's time to put up or shut up.



Cognitive dissonance.



Let me explain to you again, so you can understand: business schools are more about getting their graduates to enter to the corporate world and move up those corporate ladders. Not to start their own mom & pop shops. Granted, someone with a business degree would be able to run their business more effectively than if they did not have it - as they'd have the advanced education in marketing and accounting, and everything like that - but what does an owner of a mom & pop shop need to know about valuation of stock & bonds, or anything that's taught in managerial statistics? What do they need to know about advanced labor laws that don't apply to them, because they don't have enough employees - and will likely never have enough, unless their business has that "it" factor propels them into a regional chain? Again, that's education that's geared toward those entering the existing corporate world.

Get your business degree, and then come back and talk. Until then... again, you're talking out of your ass.



Where's your attempt to dispute? Oh, it's not there. Nothing but gibberish, bud. Nothing but gibberish. You don't like the business model I suggested, and that's all there is to it. Nothing else.

Well, as I said, history does repeat itself.

Let's try this. Get me something factual from any time in the history of mankind that the Harris Teeter store on Colonial would not accept any sort of public assistance. I can only tell you what their store website says. Oh, that and a call to their corporate office down the road from my house.

Speaking of talking out of one's ass. An MBA has, by it's nature certain key education points. One of those is business models. I don't have to actually have an MBA to know that. What school did you get your degree from? Did you not study business models..yes or no?

Keeping with the thought of speaking out of one's ass............I have disputed your asinine business model as just that. What further 'dispute' are you looking for? Again, let's turn this around. What evidence do you have that says this is a viable business model to pursue? Any studies? Anything other than your pizza parlor story/ You are using anecdotal examples of an extreme minority to illustrate a potential for universal success and I have to dispute that ?!?! As I said earlier, it disputes itself.

BTW, I assume you are a workaholic. Otherwise not sure why someone with an MBA (and a more valuable type according to you) would work two additional low paying jobs to supplement income. The news and White House is full of optimistic news about the job market. Don't you have a GS job?

Rusty Jones
03-18-2015, 04:44 PM
Well, as I said, history does repeat itself.

Let's try this. Get me something factual from any time in the history of mankind that the Harris Teeter store on Colonial would not accept any sort of public assistance. I can only tell you what their store website says. Oh, that and a call to their corporate office down the road from my house.

All I gave you was anecdotal (i.e., what I saw at the store) and I even stated this. You're accusing me of lying, so now the burden of proof falls you. Quite honestly, I don't know why you keep bringing this up. Is this your personal "Benghazi" retort?


Speaking of talking out of one's ass. An MBA has, by it's nature certain key education points. One of those is business models. I don't have to actually have an MBA to know that. What school did you get your degree from? Did you not study business models..yes or no?

You mean a class that has a lesson specifically on that? Not in the MBA program. Typically, you study that in undergrad courses - macroecon touches on that, and so does "Intro to Business" which is typically only required of business minors.

I'm looking at my MBA transcript right now, and here are the courses I took:

1. Management Skills Development (basically a collegiate version of PME)
2. Financial Management (graduate level finance)
3. Advanced Managerial Accounting (graduate level managerial accounting)
4. Statistical Methods (graduate level statistics)
5. Managerial Economics (graduate level microeconomics, and for businesses instead of people)
6. Applied Business Research (like statistics, only it teaches you research methods necessary to write dissertation-type papers)
7. Executive Development (the advanced version of #1)
8. Organizational Change Management (self explanatory)
9. Strategic Management (the capstone course that combines 2, 3, 4, and 10)
10. Marketing Management (graduate level marketing)

Again, this is from an AACSB business school. Schools like AMU, DeVry, U of Phoenix, etc - usually only have ACBSP or IACBE.


Keeping with the thought of speaking out of one's ass............I have disputed your asinine business model as just that.

Like I said. That's all you've got. "That's asinine!" For fuck's sake, say something that demonstrates some knowledge!


What further 'dispute' are you looking for? Again, let's turn this around. What evidence do you have that says this is a viable business model to pursue? Any studies? Anything other than your pizza parlor story/ You are using anecdotal examples of an extreme minority to illustrate a potential for universal success and I have to dispute that ?!?! As I said earlier, it disputes itself.

Of course! If you're going to call it "asinine," then surely you can explain why it's "asinine" and give feasible model for a start-up mom & pop that's not? Truth of the matter is, unless you've already got a shit ton of money to the point where you're not going to depend on the business that you're starting for money to live off of; you're not going to start off having people working for you. You're going to be doing much of that work yourself, and you're going to need help from family and friends - particularly the ones are also dependent on that money themselves.


BTW, I assume you are a workaholic. Otherwise not sure why someone with an MBA (and a more valuable type according to you) would work two additional low paying jobs to supplement income. The news and White House is full of optimistic news about the job market. Don't you have a GS job?

I only work my delivery job 2 to 3 nights a week, mostly to support expensive hobbies and spoil my daughters with expensive toys, without using up more than my fair share of disposable money from my regular job (my wife wouldn't like that very much). When I was a GS-7/9; I drove cabs because I needed the money, as I was used to active duty E6 money. As a GS-11, I don't "need" the money that I get from delivering pizzas. As for my third job - being in the Air Force Reserve - I'm not doing that more the money. At least not the money that I get now. I have 11 years of active duty under my belt, and I wanted to pursue a civilian career. Being in the reserves simply allows me to do that, without letting those active duty years go to waste. FYI, I have to drive 200 miles for my UTA weekends, and my net pay is about $350 after deductions for tax withholding and SGLI. I get mileage, but that only comes to $130 and they pay it whenever they feel like it - they still owe me back from November. On top of that, I only get that mileage because I'm in a critically manned AFSC - so that money could go away at any time, if the Air Force decides that it has enough people in that specialty. So no, I don't "need" the money from these two other jobs.

Rainmaker
03-18-2015, 04:47 PM
You should really toughen up and quit getting your feelings hurt about this stuff. You're falling into the liberal trap.

Umm. Not quite, SJ.. While Rainmaker must admit he does sometimes get bored of your endless drivel, He does not get angry with you because, he knows that it's not really your fault.

You've probably just been inadvertently brainwashed by the mandatory AF Diversity training that you are forced to read to your trainees over and over at the beginning of each part of the AF-AGE Maintainer curriculum.

You see it's what's known in the PSYOP business as "The Foot in The Door Technique". You begin by forcing the subject to repeat something that seems minor and inconsequential like "Diversity is our Greatest Strength" and then you progress to bigger lies like "All white men benefit from White Privilege".......

Then next thing you know, They have you chanting that "Obama is your G-d whose edicts you may not question"...... Oldest Commie trick in the book.....

It's probably pouring over your little pea-sized brain right now like a massive hydraulic leak on a worn out MEP 5 generator.....

Hold fast my friend and know that In these dark days humor and mockery will sustain you, until we can get you in to the extensive psychiatric and medical evaluation you need.....

Your Brother in Christ Jesus. Rainmaker Out//

sandsjames
03-18-2015, 05:10 PM
Umm. Not quite, SJ.. While Rainmaker must admit he does sometimes get bored of your endless drivel, He does not get angry with you because, he knows that it's not really your fault.

You've probably just been inadvertently brainwashed by the mandatory AF Diversity training that you are forced to read to your trainees over and over at the beginning of each part of the AF-AGE Maintainer curriculum.

You see it's what's known in the PSYOP business as "The Foot in The Door Technique". You begin by forcing the subject to repeat something that seems minor and inconsequential like "Diversity is our Greatest Strength" and then you progress to bigger lies like "All white men benefit from White Privilege".......

Then next thing you know, They have you chanting that "Obama is your G-d whose edicts you may not question"...... Oldest Commie trick in the book.....

It's probably pouring over your little pea-sized brain right now like a massive hydraulic leak on a worn out MEP 5 generator.....

Hold fast my friend and know that In these dark days humor and mockery will sustain you, until we can get you in to the extensive psychiatric and medical evaluation you need.....

Your Brother in Christ Jesus. Rainmaker Out//

Answer the question. Where did I ever state that I support or agree with the policies of the President? Or just ramble and avoid it, like usual.

I'm pretty sure I know which one you'll do.

TJMAC77SP
03-18-2015, 05:13 PM
All I gave you was anecdotal (i.e., what I saw at the store) and I even stated this. You're accusing me of lying, so now the burden of proof falls you. Quite honestly, I don't know why you keep bringing this up. Is this your personal "Benghazi" retort?



You mean a class that has a lesson specifically on that? Not in the MBA program. Typically, you study that in undergrad courses - macroecon touches on that, and so does "Intro to Business" which is typically only required of business minors.

I'm looking at my MBA transcript right now, and here are the courses I took:

1. Management Skills Development (basically a collegiate version of PME)
2. Financial Management (graduate level finance)
3. Advanced Managerial Accounting (graduate level managerial accounting)
4. Statistical Methods (graduate level statistics)
5. Managerial Economics (graduate level microeconomics, and for businesses instead of people)
6. Applied Business Research (like statistics, only it teaches you research methods necessary to write dissertation-type papers)
7. Executive Development (the advanced version of #1)
8. Organizational Change Management (self explanatory)
9. Strategic Management (the capstone course that combines 2, 3, 4, and 10)
10. Marketing Management (graduate level marketing)

Again, this is from an AACSB business school. Schools like AMU, DeVry, U of Phoenix, etc - usually only have ACBSP or IACBE.



Like I said. That's all you've got. "That's asinine!" For fuck's sake, say something that demonstrates some knowledge!



Of course! If you're going to call it "asinine," then surely you can explain why it's "asinine" and give feasible model for a start-up mom & pop that's not? Truth of the matter is, unless you've already got a shit ton of money to the point where you're not going to depend on the business that you're starting for money to live off of; you're not going to start off having people working for you. You're going to be doing much of that work yourself, and you're going to need help from family and friends - particularly the ones are also dependent on that money themselves.



I only work my delivery job 2 to 3 nights a week, mostly to support expensive hobbies and spoil my daughters with expensive toys, without using up more than my fair share of disposable money from my regular job (my wife wouldn't like that very much). When I was a GS-7/9; I drove cabs because I needed the money, as I was used to active duty E6 money. As a GS-11, I don't "need" the money that I get from delivering pizzas. As for my third job - being in the Air Force Reserve - I'm not doing that more the money. At least not the money that I get now. I have 11 years of active duty under my belt, and I wanted to pursue a civilian career. Being in the reserves simply allows me to do that, without letting those active duty years go to waste. FYI, I have to drive 200 miles for my UTA weekends, and my net pay is about $350 after deductions for tax withholding and SGLI. I get mileage, but that only comes to $130 and they pay it whenever they feel like it - they still owe me back from November. On top of that, I only get that mileage because I'm in a critically manned AFSC - so that money could go away at any time, if the Air Force decides that it has enough people in that specialty. So no, I don't "need" the money from these two other jobs.

I brought up the Harris Teeter lie because I got the same feeling today from your responses. You learned business models in Macroeconomics? Must have been a very different course than I took.

We can just leave this with a summary of your points.

There is a legitimate concern over what the impact will be to businesses, particularly small businesses with raising the minimum wage to $15. There will without a doubt be an impact to both cost of doing business and of course, an increase in consumer costs.

There are equally legitimate concerns over what will happen (and continue to happen) if we don't reconcile what Americans earn with what their living costs are. Instead of presenting cogent points about that, your answer to that, your 'business model' is that small businesses should employ family members (again you have to have many family members to do that so you've got a smaller subset right there for success). Alternatively you employ people off the books and ignore the further impact that will have to the economy and the employees themselves. Not to mention the whole IRS frowning upon that kind of thing.

Ok, well that about does it.

BTW, the reason I bring up Harris Teeter is because you have proven yourself to be without integrity and not above lying to attempt (repeat attempt) to make a point. We both know that you have no earthly idea if that store once refused to take food stamps, EBT, etc. The simply fact is that they have never done so (refused to honor the entitlement instruments). I know this, you know this. That will have to do. Employing something else you should have learned in pursuit of your 'MBA'...............why would a viable business refuse money because of who the source is (invididual vs. government)? What is the logic at play with that decision?

Rainmaker
03-18-2015, 05:25 PM
Answer the question. Where did I ever state that I support or agree with the policies of the President? Or just ramble and avoid it, like usual.

I'm pretty sure I know which one you'll do.

SANDSJAMES ......SANDSJAMES .....DO NOT ANSWER......MESSAGE FOLLOWS.....,
WE WON'T LEAVE YOU BEHIND....DO NOT LET YOUR MARXIST CAPTORS BREAK YOUR SPIRIT.....KEEP THE FAITH..... YOU HAVE A DUTY TO YOURSELF TO RESIST AS BEST YOU CAN while YOU WAIT FOR YOUR RESCUE.....SANDSJAMES, WE WON'T LEAVE YOU BEHIND//

SomeRandomGuy
03-18-2015, 05:46 PM
Alright, let's circle back here and summarize the last few pages.

Flaps: People who keep voting for free stuff will drive this country to ruin. The people who vote for this free stuff are usually democrats.

Me: The people who vote for this free stuff know it will ruin the country. They simply don't care because they need it to survive.

Flaps: The rich paying more taxes will not solve the problem. People dependant on free stuff grows everyday.

Rusty: Corporations like Wal-Mart are essentially subsidizing their min wage workers with govt handouts. If min wage went to $15 subsidies wouldn't be as necessary.

Flaps: 70% of the economy is driven by small business who can't afford wage increases.

Rusty: Start a family business and pay people off the books while you are getting started.

Ok, obviously Rusty's solution isn't the answer considering the people getting paid "off the books" will still continue to collect government handouts. The original solution of $15 minimum wage probably doesn't work either. People's earning power is always based on what someone else can pay them to free up their own time. For example, a woman can pay a daycare provider $5 an hour if that allows here to earn $15 an hour working. If the daycare provider wants $15 an hour the woman can't pay $15 for daycare if she only makes $15 herself working. The same can be said for McDonalds. I will pay $5 for a value meal because it saves me time not cooking it myself. If that value meal is $15 I probably start making my own hamburger.

So what is the answer to the original question? People need government handouts to survive. The rich don't want to pay anything extra. Some in the middle are "rich" but probably can't afford to pay any more than they already are. The poor aren't voting to get rid of the benefits they need which means they aren't going away. So we just sit back and watch things fall apart?

sandsjames
03-18-2015, 06:29 PM
Alright, let's circle back here and summarize the last few pages.

Flaps: People who keep voting for free stuff will drive this country to ruin. The people who vote for this free stuff are usually democrats.

Me: The people who vote for this free stuff know it will ruin the country. They simply don't care because they need it to survive.

Flaps: The rich paying more taxes will not solve the problem. People dependant on free stuff grows everyday.

Rusty: Corporations like Wal-Mart are essentially subsidizing their min wage workers with govt handouts. If min wage went to $15 subsidies wouldn't be as necessary.

Flaps: 70% of the economy is driven by small business who can't afford wage increases.

Rusty: Start a family business and pay people off the books while you are getting started.

Ok, obviously Rusty's solution isn't the answer considering the people getting paid "off the books" will still continue to collect government handouts. The original solution of $15 minimum wage probably doesn't work either. People's earning power is always based on what someone else can pay them to free up their own time. For example, a woman can pay a daycare provider $5 an hour if that allows here to earn $15 an hour working. If the daycare provider wants $15 an hour the woman can't pay $15 for daycare if she only makes $15 herself working. The same can be said for McDonalds. I will pay $5 for a value meal because it saves me time not cooking it myself. If that value meal is $15 I probably start making my own hamburger.

So what is the answer to the original question? People need government handouts to survive. The rich don't want to pay anything extra. Some in the middle are "rich" but probably can't afford to pay any more than they already are. The poor aren't voting to get rid of the benefits they need which means they aren't going away. So we just sit back and watch things fall apart?

So do you have a solution? Where is the middle ground? We know that there are people who are dependent on the government. We know that there are people who are very well off. Here is what I've heard for solutions:

1. Stop paying benefits to the poor who aren't looking for job/trying to make a living on their own.

Will it work? Who knows. What it will do is create more criminals (families will become even more desperate) and we end up paying for them in jail.

2. Raise the taxes on the rich to pay for the poor.

What does this solve? Nothing. The reason is because there will be no cut-off and those dependent will become even more dependent and the business owners won't be able to employ as many people which will, in turn, create more poor.

I will offer a solution:

Quit manufacturing overseas. Bring it all back to the U.S. It will create jobs. Of course it will also increase prices but that works almost like a VAT (value added tax) which means that you don't have to pay more unless you feel you absolutely need that product. So the super rich, who make more purchases, will be doing the equivalent of paying higher taxes, but it will be through purchases the choose to make. Those with less buying power won't be hit that hard because they aren't buying that stuff anyway.

Over time, the competition from companies within the U.S. will increase which will, in turn, decrease the prices.

So, instead of putting it on the rich, or on the poor, let's put it on everyone. Everyone is going to have to suffer in the short run to decrease the suffering in the long run.

At the same time, there have to be restrictions and huge fines and repercussions for people who continue to employ illegals. It needs to be potentially more expensive to employ them then it is to employ Americans.

Illegals/undocumented must not receive any benefits. None. With there being fewer jobs (via business owners being reluctant to hire for fear of fines) and no benefits the number of illegals would drop drastically. This does two things. 1, it reduces the number trying to enter and 2, it reduces costs related to illegal immigration.

Finally, and more important than the rest, the laws above MUST be enforced. Without it, the above policies wouldn't work. Anybody found to not be enforcing MUST be prosecuted as an accessory to the crime.

Rainmaker
03-18-2015, 06:39 PM
So do you have a solution? Where is the middle ground? We know that there are people who are dependent on the government. We know that there are people who are very well off. Here is what I've heard for solutions:

1. Stop paying benefits to the poor who aren't looking for job/trying to make a living on their own.

Will it work? Who knows. What it will do is create more criminals (families will become even more desperate) and we end up paying for them in jail.

2. Raise the taxes on the rich to pay for the poor.

What does this solve? Nothing. The reason is because there will be no cut-off and those dependent will become even more dependent and the business owners won't be able to employ as many people which will, in turn, create more poor.

I will offer a solution:

Quit manufacturing overseas. Bring it all back to the U.S. It will create jobs. Of course it will also increase prices but that works almost like a VAT (value added tax) which means that you don't have to pay more unless you feel you absolutely need that product. So the super rich, who make more purchases, will be doing the equivalent of paying higher taxes, but it will be through purchases the choose to make. Those with less buying power won't be hit that hard because they aren't buying that stuff anyway.

Over time, the competition from companies within the U.S. will increase which will, in turn, decrease the prices.

So, instead of putting it on the rich, or on the poor, let's put it on everyone. Everyone is going to have to suffer in the short run to decrease the suffering in the long run.

At the same time, there have to be restrictions and huge fines and repercussions for people who continue to employ illegals. It needs to be potentially more expensive to employ them then it is to employ Americans.

Illegals/undocumented must not receive any benefits. None. With there being fewer jobs (via business owners being reluctant to hire for fear of fines) and no benefits the number of illegals would drop drastically. This does two things. 1, it reduces the number trying to enter and 2, it reduces costs related to illegal immigration.

Finally, and more important than the rest, the laws above MUST be enforced. Without it, the above policies wouldn't work. Anybody found to not be enforcing MUST be prosecuted as an accessory to the crime.

Education is the 1st step. 4 years in a good quality Women's studies program can only reap a lifetime of benefits.

SomeRandomGuy
03-18-2015, 07:17 PM
So do you have a solution? Where is the middle ground? We know that there are people who are dependent on the government.


I do have a solution, sort of. We need to fix the public education system in this country. Who decided that K-12 was the perfect amount of years required to earn a HS dimploma? Why does it coicidentally end at 18 years of age? 18 also happens to be the age where we start consdiering the person an adult. Realistically high school kids are learning very little after about their freshman or sophmore year.

In my opinion, what is driving the public education system is the college education system. We are being conditioned to believe that everyone should get a degree when that simply isn't the case. Instead, starting about sophomore year students should be forced to pick a track. There would be three tracks to choose.

1.) Enter the workforce. This is essentially "dropping out" but wouldn't come with the negative stigma. Thsi option would be for students who are done pursuing eduction but don't want to go to a trade school. These students would be given assistance applying for and finding a job that pays a livable wage.

2.) Enter a trade school. For students who know what they would like to do they would start down that career path around 10th grade. Options include mechanic, electrician, HVAC technician, and plumber. You could even include truck driver or military in this group. Instead of spending 10-12th grade taking spanish, choir, band, physical education, etc you spend those years learning your new career. By age 18 you have a solid path to pursue a career.

3.) Continue eduction. For those students wishing to pursue higher education this track would be avalaible as well. The classes these students would take from 10th-12th grade would be dual credit college courses. This would save money on student loans and get them into the workforce two years earlier.

By using the plan above we create a system that actually benefit students which should allow them to find a career and not become dependant on the government. The current system is simply babysitting our kids during high school then turning them loose at 18 with no real job skills.

I don't remember the exact timeframe that this practice ended but in the 1920-1930s it was not uncommon for a student to drop out of school between 12 and 14 years old to work on the family farm. It appears that as farming died out many had no family business to enter. We aren't educating students to join the work force anymore. We are preparing them to go to college. That's a huge mistake and we are paying for it by turning out hundreds of thousands of students with no skills and no options.

sandsjames
03-18-2015, 07:58 PM
I do have a solution, sort of. We need to fix the public education system in this country. Who decided that K-12 was the perfect amount of years required to earn a HS dimploma? Why does it coicidentally end at 18 years of age? 18 also happens to be the age where we start consdiering the person an adult. Realistically high school kids are learning very little after about their freshman or sophmore year.

In my opinion, what is driving the public education system is the college education system. We are being conditioned to believe that everyone should get a degree when that simply isn't the case. Instead, starting about sophomore year students should be forced to pick a track. There would be three tracks to choose.

1.) Enter the workforce. This is essentially "dropping out" but wouldn't come with the negative stigma. Thsi option would be for students who are done pursuing eduction but don't want to go to a trade school. These students would be given assistance applying for and finding a job that pays a livable wage.

2.) Enter a trade school. For students who know what they would like to do they would start down that career path around 10th grade. Options include mechanic, electrician, HVAC technician, and plumber. You could even include truck driver or military in this group. Instead of spending 10-12th grade taking spanish, choir, band, physical education, etc you spend those years learning your new career. By age 18 you have a solid path to pursue a career.

3.) Continue eduction. For those students wishing to pursue higher education this track would be avalaible as well. The classes these students would take from 10th-12th grade would be dual credit college courses. This would save money on student loans and get them into the workforce two years earlier.

By using the plan above we create a system that actually benefit students which should allow them to find a career and not become dependant on the government. The current system is simply babysitting our kids during high school then turning them loose at 18 with no real job skills.

I don't remember the exact timeframe that this practice ended but in the 1920-1930s it was not uncommon for a student to drop out of school between 12 and 14 years old to work on the family farm. It appears that as farming died out many had no family business to enter. We aren't educating students to join the work force anymore. We are preparing them to go to college. That's a huge mistake and we are paying for it by turning out hundreds of thousands of students with no skills and no options.

I can agree with a lot of this. England does it very similar to this. They go to high school, or "upper school" to the age of 16. After that, they have options. The can continue the academic portion at the high school level, they can work, or they can take classes at the trade school level. It seems to work pretty well, though it's hard to compare because of their welfare state, which I'm not in favor of for us (which, unfortunately, is the direction we are currently trying to go).

But I agree about the high school to get to college because college is the be all, end all (of which the majority of people have been convinced).

garhkal
03-18-2015, 08:48 PM
The way I see it, I'm helping out a friend who is actually trying to position his business to able support a legit paid staff. Currently, he, his wife, and his sons all work there.

And this is the part that TJ is failing to understand. These are families working together to get businesses off the ground. Not cases of someone enslaving others.

Again, like I said to FLAPS, this is something that small businesses can do until they can afford higher minimum wages.

But is that not illegal? Is not hiring someone 'off the books' breaking several laws, and thus making it to where they "CAN'T do it?"


Possibly due to the amount of money involved? I would think that if someone is cheating the government out of $2000 vs. someone who is cheating them out of $200,000, they would go after the both equally (with preference to the one of $200,000). However, it seems that they have no problem going after the small change people and makes them out to be the worst of the bunch. As for those who are illegal, you mean to tell me corporations don't do the same thing when they file taxes? Filing foreign subsidiaries as non-entities of their company so that they can have less taxes levied against them and get tax credits(the opposite to achieve the same goal)?

You WOULD think they would go after both equally, or make more of an effort to go after the Big fry, but from my experience, they seem to spend most of their time going after the smaller 'legal' fish, that make a mistake, rather than going after the fraudsters.


2.) Enter a trade school. For students who know what they would like to do they would start down that career path around 10th grade. Options include mechanic, electrician, HVAC technician, and plumber. You could even include truck driver or military in this group. Instead of spending 10-12th grade taking spanish, choir, band, physical education, etc you spend those years learning your new career. By age 18 you have a solid path to pursue a career.

I know when i lived and went to school in England, they had work weeks, where you would spend a solid week working for a local firm to get experience in the work force. Perhaps once students here hit say sophomore grade, they could start doing the same. And by Junior, they could enroll them in an actual apprenticeship like training program as part of their electives..