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garhkal
02-14-2015, 10:35 PM
For our ground pounder folk in the army/marines and other branches..

In many Hollywood films and TV shows (like band of brothers), we continually see artillery shell/mortar shells impact "Preceded" by a whistle like sound, warning our "heroes" of said incoming fire.

But is that realistic, or done just for the shows?

Has anyone here ever been under fire and can comment on whether they heard anything before the big boom!

UncaRastus
02-15-2015, 12:47 AM
Not that I can recall. But then, my hearing started to fail from the exposure to small arms fire, from when I was a Drill Instructor. Wearing ear plugs at that time in my life was excruciating. My ear canals were super sensitive. So, I didn't wear ear plugs at that time. If mortar rounds made any noise while incoming, which I encountered after being a DI, I couldn't hear the noise. I would have been a bad choice if I were picked to go to a listening post, to be sure!

Stalwart
02-15-2015, 02:09 PM
You can.

Artillery doesn't sound like the movies, it is a deeper sound, like a rumble ... not a whistle. The only time I have heard it was during a training exercise where I was forward of the firing battery and within about 100 yd perpendicular of the impact.

LGB's make a similar sound, it is a deep rumble.

Mortar rounds are a bit higher pitched but the sound is quieter than artillery.

For the most part once we knew we were getting attacked things got kind of loud and I didn't pay much attention if I could hear the incoming mortar fire over the sound of small arms.

Absinthe Anecdote
02-16-2015, 12:57 PM
You can.

Artillery doesn't sound like the movies, it is a deeper sound, like a rumble ... not a whistle. The only time I have heard it was during a training exercise where I was forward of the firing battery and within about 100 yd perpendicular of the impact.

LGB's make a similar sound, it is a deep rumble.

Mortar rounds are a bit higher pitched but the sound is quieter than artillery.

For the most part once we knew we were getting attacked things got kind of loud and I didn't pay much attention if I could hear the incoming mortar fire over the sound of small arms.

Wouldn't there be a very big difference between the velocity of artillery rounds and mortar rounds?

I'm pretty sure that an artillery round is traveling faster than the speed of sound, and you wouldn't hear it until it passes over or past your position. That rumble you describe is likely the disturbed air in its wake.

Small mortars are traveling below the speed of sound, and any whistling might be caused by air rushing over the small fins on the back of the shell.

Don't know about LGBs being super-sonic, but I would think they possibly could be traveling at or very near the speed of sound in most cases. Depends a lot on the speed and altitude of the aircraft that dropped them.

However, a 2000lb LGB is a very big hunk of metal moving through the air and it is going to displace a lot of air as it falls/glides to target.

Stalwart
02-16-2015, 01:40 PM
Wouldn't there be a very big difference between the velocity of artillery rounds and mortar rounds?
Yes, round size and muzzle velocity is different.


I'm pretty sure that an artillery round is traveling faster than the speed of sound, and you wouldn't hear it until it passes over or past your position. That rumble you describe is likely the disturbed air in its wake.

Probably, the muzzle velocity for a 155mm howitzer is supersonic at sea level. Either way, I knew something was coming our way.



Small mortars are traveling below the speed of sound, and any whistling might be caused by air rushing over the small fins on the back of the shell.

Not sure.



Don't know about LGBs being super-sonic, but I would think they possibly could be traveling at or very near the speed of sound in most cases. Depends a lot on the speed and altitude of the aircraft that dropped them.

Depends on the speed of the aircraft upon release, altitude etc.



However, a 2000lb LGB is a very big hunk of metal moving through the air and it is going to displace a lot of air as it falls/glides to target.

Pretty much.

garhkal
02-16-2015, 10:12 PM
So, film portrayals of bombs/mortar/artillery shells as being 'heard before impact' is based on reality then.

Mjölnir
02-17-2015, 12:32 AM
So, film portrayals of bombs/mortar/artillery shells as being 'heard before impact' is based on reality then.

It isn't out of the realm of possible. But I wouldn't say that most of the movies I have seen get it exactly like I experienced.

Speakit
02-17-2015, 03:37 PM
After returning from a few tour’s in those lovely “places”, I can say the whistle is real and typically means it’s near and has just passed overhead and about to impact; at least when it comes to artillery shells, the enemy tool of choice.

Absinthe Anecdote
02-17-2015, 05:33 PM
After returning from a few tour’s in those lovely “places”, I can say the whistle is real and typically means it’s near and has just passed overhead and about to impact; at least when it comes to artillery shells, the enemy tool of choice.

Which one of our current enemies is using artillery on us?

If you had said mortars, then I wouldn't have questioned you.

There is a damn big difference between the two. How in the hell could you mix that up?

Speakit
02-17-2015, 05:54 PM
Which one of our current enemies is using artillery on us?

If you had said mortars, then I wouldn't have questioned you.

There is a damn big difference between the two. How in the hell could you mix that up?

Notice, how I didn’t say which locations or which enemy; nevertheless, who cares about the semantics they all have the same damn results and they all had the whistle, if close enough. Some of us have been to locations outside the norm. Last I checked the U.S. has a multitude of enemies and is in a multitude of location not publicly broadcasted and not operating in a war like capacity.

TJMAC77SP
02-17-2015, 06:42 PM
Notice, how I didn’t say which locations or which enemy; nevertheless, who cares about the semantics they all have the same damn results and they all had the whistle, if close enough. Some of us have been to locations outside the norm. Last I checked the U.S. has a multitude of enemies and is in a multitude of location not publicly broadcasted and not operating in a war like capacity.

Answers that smack of "I could tell you but then I would have to kill you" don't go over well here on the MTF. Maybe on the SOF forum but not here.

Absinthe Anecdote
02-17-2015, 06:48 PM
Notice, how I didn’t say which locations or which enemy; nevertheless, who cares about the semantics they all have the same damn results and they all had the whistle, if close enough. Some of us have been to locations outside the norm. Last I checked the U.S. has a multitude of enemies and is in a multitude of location not publicly broadcasted and not operating in a war like capacity.

I am officially throwing the bullshit flag on your post.

You are barking up the wrong tree with trying to hint that you were in some kind of classified war.

So, which enemy has been firing artillery at us?

Oh, I obviously care about such things as semantics.

Mjölnir
02-17-2015, 07:30 PM
http://media.giphy.com/media/rvdUftzA8567u/giphy.gif

Speakit
02-17-2015, 08:07 PM
Answers that smack of "I could tell you but then I would have to kill you" don't go over well here on the MTF. Maybe on the SOF forum but not here.

That’s an assumption, that it’s an unspoken location; although, the original poster never asked for locations, just for the sound of artillery or mortars.

Only people in SOF forums are those that pretend to be SOF, call of duty doesn’t count.

Speakit
02-17-2015, 08:17 PM
I am officially throwing the bullshit flag on your post.

You are barking up the wrong tree with trying to hint that you were in some kind of classified war.

So, which enemy has been firing artillery at us?

Oh, I obviously care about such things as semantics.

Obviously you do care about semantics, but raise your flag all you like; I’m not here to entertain your injection about what you “think” I’m hinting to. For instance, I never mentioned a war…I never even mentioned the firing was at specific U.S. entities or interest.

Your injection is that it was a war, and the enemy was firing at us; I assume us to be the U.S., now that’s what you’re inferring .

Absinthe Anecdote
02-17-2015, 08:48 PM
Obviously you do care about semantics, but raise your flag all you like; I’m not here to entertain your injection about what you “think” I’m hinting to. For instance, I never mentioned a war…I never even mentioned the firing was at specific U.S. entities or interest.

Your injection is that it was a war, and the enemy was firing at us; I assume us to be the U.S., now that’s what you’re inferring .

Here is your original post.


After returning from a few tour’s in those lovely “places”, I can say the whistle is real and typically means it’s near and has just passed overhead and about to impact; at least when it comes to artillery shells, the enemy tool of choice.

Which enemy uses artillery as a tool of choice?

Speakit
02-17-2015, 09:06 PM
Here is your original post.



Which enemy uses artillery as a tool of choice?

True, my original post, but still no mention of war; to satisfy your curiosity HAMAS.

But really who cares if its artillery or a mortar if it’s coming in your direction. Yes the munitions are different, I'm not going to argue that, but that wasn't the intent of the post.

Rainmaker
02-17-2015, 09:52 PM
Ahh.....wondering when he'd go there....Very Well played Abs...You don't want to be labeled as being an Anti-Semantic!

sandsjames
02-17-2015, 10:14 PM
Which one of our current enemies is using artillery on us?

If you had said mortars, then I wouldn't have questioned you.

There is a damn big difference between the two. How in the hell could you mix that up?

Maybe I shouldn't comment since I've never been in the situation, but I couldn't explain the difference right now (without looking it up) between what separates artillery from mortars. Nor could I identify a rocket, missile, or all that other stuff we are supposed to be able to identify when trained by our Prime BEEF folks.

Not that it's relevant, but I'd bet there are a large number of people (mostly AF probably) who couldn't tell you the difference. Not on this site, of course, as everyone here is an expert on all things military related, but in general.

Absinthe Anecdote
02-17-2015, 10:38 PM
True, my original post, but still no mention of war; to satisfy your curiosity HAMAS.

But really who cares if its artillery or a mortar if it’s coming in your direction. Yes the munitions are different, I'm not going to argue that, but that wasn't the intent of the post.

Look, you are the one who came in here talking smack about being under fire from artillery.

I'd think you'd care about the difference between artillery and mortars because an artillery barrage is much more devastating than a mortar barrage.

More importantly, the reason your post reeked of being one of an uninformed person is that an artillery battery requires a significant amout of logistics and support that our current enemies do not have, or even choose to have.

As for Hamas using crew served artillery, that would also be a very big negative. They use rockets and mortars, weapons that they can fire and quickly move, or simply abandon.

While large caliber field guns are mobile, they wouldn't survive in Gaza, or even match the tactics used by Hamas.

In my opinion, a person who says they were under artillery fire when they meant mortar fire, wasn't under either one.

Absinthe Anecdote
02-17-2015, 11:16 PM
Maybe I shouldn't comment since I've never been in the situation, but I couldn't explain the difference right now (without looking it up) between what separates artillery from mortars. Nor could I identify a rocket, missile, or all that other stuff we are supposed to be able to identify when trained by our Prime BEEF folks.

Not that it's relevant, but I'd bet there are a large number of people (mostly AF probably) who couldn't tell you the difference. Not on this site, of course, as everyone here is an expert on all things military related, but in general.

Then again, you aren't making nonsensical posts about coming under fire from artillery and then saying the enemy's tool of choice is artillery.

Here is a photo of an artillery piece.

http://olive-drab.com/images/id_m777howitzer_01_700.jpg

Here is a photo of a very large mortar, most are smaller.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/GIs_in_Konar_Province_-b.jpg/300px-GIs_in_Konar_Province_-b.jpg

Now, I ask you SJ. If you had to come under fire from one of the weapon systems, which one would you choose?

Would you call the difference between those two weapon systems a mere matter of semantics?

Perhaps you will, just to screw with me, but that is how I knew that guy was talking trash.

TJMAC77SP
02-18-2015, 03:51 AM
True, my original post, but still no mention of war; to satisfy your curiosity HAMAS.

But really who cares if its artillery or a mortar if it’s coming in your direction. Yes the munitions are different, I'm not going to argue that, but that wasn't the intent of the post.

I am even more confused now. The back and forth regarding your post was about artillery, mortars and 'been there done that' type statements. Who used 'war' as a limiter in the conversation?

sandsjames
02-18-2015, 11:30 AM
Then again, you aren't making nonsensical posts about coming under fire from artillery and then saying the enemy's tool of choice is artillery.

Here is a photo of an artillery piece.

http://olive-drab.com/images/id_m777howitzer_01_700.jpg

Here is a photo of a very large mortar, most are smaller.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/c/cc/GIs_in_Konar_Province_-b.jpg/300px-GIs_in_Konar_Province_-b.jpg

Now, I ask you SJ. If you had to come under fire from one of the weapon systems, which one would you choose?

Would you call the difference between those two weapon systems a mere matter of semantics?

Perhaps you will, just to screw with me, but that is how I knew that guy was talking trash.

After the explosion, yes. Within view of the weapon, yes. But with a shell (assuming that's the right term) flying through the air overhead, and just trying to identify it by sound, I have no idea. Though, as you said, if I was in the environment and this was a regular even, then I'm sure I could.

Stalwart
02-18-2015, 11:37 AM
Again, have only called in artillery in an exercise, but have taken incoming mortar fire in two AOR's:


If you had to come under fire from one of the weapon systems, which one would you choose?

They both have their characteristics that would make them a pain for someone on the receiving end:

Artillery:
-bigger round, bigger boom
-longer range
-probably supported by a fire direction center, so likely to be wicked accurate once the gun line is in place.

Mortars:
-man portable, so movable and quickly re-locatable (specific problem in Afgh).
-faster rate of fire, so if they know where you are and you don't know where they are they can bring a lot of pain in a hurry.
-can be emplaced in areas you can't put artillery, so more of a problem in mountain warfare (you can maneuver to avoid artillery impact zones, it is harder to move a cannon than a mortar to get to you.



Would you call the difference between those two weapon systems a mere matter of semantics?

I can get the point that either will kill you just as dead. At the same time, it is important (for those whose mission it is to go find these things and destroy them) to know what they are and are capable of ... rather than hunkering down and waiting for someone to do it.

Absinthe Anecdote
02-18-2015, 12:09 PM
Thanks Stalwart...

I know you avoid being confrontational in here, and while I respect you for taking the high road and not thrashing other posters, I have no such qualms.

This post:

After returning from a few tour’s in those lovely “places”, I can say the whistle is real and typically means it’s near and has just passed overhead and about to impact; at least when it comes to artillery shells, the enemy tool of choice.

Stinks really, really bad and is easily identifiable as one made by a bullshiter.

Speakit
02-18-2015, 02:42 PM
Look, you are the one who came in here talking smack about being under fire from artillery.

I'd think you'd care about the difference between artillery and mortars because an artillery barrage is much more devastating than a mortar barrage.

More importantly, the reason your post reeked of being one of an uninformed person is that an artillery battery requires a significant amout of logistics and support that our current enemies do not have, or even choose to have.

As for Hamas using crew served artillery, that would also be a very big negative. They use rockets and mortars, weapons that they can fire and quickly move, or simply abandon.

While large caliber field guns are mobile, they wouldn't survive in Gaza, or even match the tactics used by Hamas.

In my opinion, a person who says they were under artillery fire when they meant mortar fire, wasn't under either one.


- First never talked smack about being under fire, simply answered the question.

- Don’t care which is more devastating if either hits you you’re done.

- I never said artillery” battery”, mortars are considered artillery.

- I never said crew served artillery.

artillery
guns, cannon, howitzers, mortars, etc, of calibre greater than 20 mm

- I’m not going to argue about being under fire, I was…so no need to prove it. When the alarms went off I didn't give a care about the munitions.

- And your right, its your opinion, but if it helps you "win", hell (can I say that) you "win"

Rainmaker
02-18-2015, 02:49 PM
- First never talked smack about being under fire, simply answered the question.

- Don’t care which is more devastating if either hits you you’re done.

- I never said artillery” battery”, mortars are considered artillery.

- I never said crew served artillery.

artillery
guns, cannon, howitzers, mortars, etc, of calibre greater than 20 mm

- I’m not going to argue about being under fire, I was…so no need to prove it. When the alarms went off I didn't give a care about the munitions.

- And your right, its your opinion, but if it helps you "win", hell (can I say that) you "win"

Is that you Brian Williams?

Speakit
02-18-2015, 02:52 PM
I am even more confused now. The back and forth regarding your post was about artillery, mortars and 'been there done that' type statements. Who used 'war' as a limiter in the conversation?

AA alluded to a classified war...

Speakit
02-18-2015, 02:56 PM
Is that you Brian Williams?

Good one...

Speakit
02-18-2015, 03:11 PM
I can get the point that either will kill you just as dead. At the same time, it is important (for those whose mission it is to go find these things and destroy them) to know what they are and are capable of ... rather than hunkering down and waiting for someone to do it.

Unfortunately most Forward Operating Base’s (FOB) do hunker down and wait for impact.

It is important to know the weapon type (I don’t disagree), but that is normally done in post attack assessments, at least the identification of the impacted munitions and its likely path of travel.

Rainmaker
02-18-2015, 03:12 PM
Good one...

Welcome to the forum/ God's waiting room Speakit......Abs. Stop slapping his nuts....Rainmaker like this guy. Sense of humor.... We need new blood.... You'll have to excuse AA. He's one of those Intel Anal-ists/Godless NSA Spook, so he gets wrapped around the axle on "smantics". Try not to piss him off. Rainmaker once got cross threaded with him and he imbedded a stuxnet in a Lilly Ghallichi .jpg that crashed Rainmakers CPU.

FWIW Rainmaker's limited experience with this subject is being on the ground during AC-130 Live Fire exercise and numerous (random) mortar attacks on OEF/OIF deployments.

Never once recall hearing a whistle. And like the man says I wouldn't want to be hit by either....Gnomesayin?

TJMAC77SP
02-18-2015, 04:14 PM
AA alluded to a classified war...

Ah, so you are posting regarding his semantics. I see.

I believe his reference was your alluding to being in some black or unacknowledged conflict (I think that is a better word perhaps) where an enemy's “tool of choice” is artillery vs mortar. Now I know that you have now stated that mortars are artillery and I won’t argue that point but given that the OP divides the two and your original post seemed to do the same I think it a bit disingenuous to now simply retreat to the position that they are one and the same as that doesn’t really address AA’s (or my) point that your veiled references to conflicts which you have ‘experience’ in are at best questionable.

The finer points of what are classified as mortars and what is artillery is of no real consequence in this discussion.

TJMAC77SP
02-18-2015, 04:19 PM
Welcome to the forum/ God's waiting room Speakit......Abs. Stop slapping his nuts....Rainmaker like this guy. Sense of humor.... We need new blood.... You'll have to excuse AA. He's one of those Intel Anal-ists/Godless NSA Spook, so he gets wrapped around the axle on "smantics". Try not to piss him off. Rainmaker once got cross threaded with him and he imbedded a stuxnet in a Lilly Ghallichi .jpg that crashed Rainmakers CPU.

FWIW Rainmaker's limited experience with this subject is being on the ground during AC-130 Live Fire exercise and numerous (random) mortar attacks on OEF/OIF deployments.

Never once recall hearing a whistle. And like the man says I wouldn't want to be hit by either....Gnomesayin?

Going to have to agree with you Rain. Had 81mm mortar fire fired obliquely over my head and impact less than 1000 meters to my front. Heard the crump of rounds outbound but never heard any whistle.

I did however hear the whistle of thousands of ground burst simulators...............does that count? I have always wondered myself about the 'whistle'.

Where did you see an AC-130 livefire? Was present for many on the ranges at Indian Springs AAF (now Creech AFB)

Absinthe Anecdote
02-18-2015, 07:03 PM
- First never talked smack about being under fire, simply answered the question.

- Don’t care which is more devastating if either hits you you’re done.

- I never said artillery” battery”, mortars are considered artillery.

- I never said crew served artillery.

artillery
guns, cannon, howitzers, mortars, etc, of calibre greater than 20 mm

- I’m not going to argue about being under fire, I was…so no need to prove it. When the alarms went off I didn't give a care about the munitions.

- And your right, its your opinion, but if it helps you "win", hell (can I say that) you "win"

Are you in the British Army? Because you certainly went to a common British dictionary for that definition of the word artillery.

Hint, notice the funky way they spelled the word caliber.

Oh, and by that silly British definition that you went and dug up, a M-203 grenade launcher would be considered artillery since it fires a 40mm projectile.

Maybe in the British Army they do stupid things like categorize a grenade launcher as artillery, but artillery has a much tighter definition in the U.S. Armed Forces.

As far as smack talking, let's look at your first post again.


After returning from a few tour’s in those lovely “places”, I can say the whistle is real and typically means it’s near and has just passed overhead and about to impact; at least when it comes to artillery shells, the enemy tool of choice.

Hmmm, spoken with the nonchalant coolness of a Ranger Rick. I'm calling that smack talk.

And since you later revealed that Hamas was the enemy you were referring to, wrong again! Hamas is widely known for launching rockets.

Speakit
02-18-2015, 07:33 PM
Are you in the British Army? Because you certainly went to a common British dictionary for that definition of the word artillery.

Hint, notice the funky way they spelled the word caliber.

Oh, and by that silly British definition that you went and dug up, a M-203 grenade launcher would be considered artillery since it fires a 40mm projectile.

Maybe in the British Army they do stupid things like categorize a grenade launcher as artillery, but artillery has a much tighter definition in the U.S. Armed Forces.

As far as smack talking, let's look at your first post again.



Hmmm, spoken with the nonchalant coolness of a Ranger Rick. I'm calling that smack talk.

And since you later revealed that Hamas was the enemy you were referring to, wrong again! Hamas is widely known for launching rockets.

- Guess our definition of "smack" talking is extremely different.

- So a rocket is artillery? Yes thanks… blows knuckles and walk off the stage

- I notice you like to add words to prove your point, hell maybe the British do classify grenade launchers as such...but again, I didn't say that.

- No I'm not in Army, British or otherwise

Speakit
02-18-2015, 08:18 PM
Ah, so you are posting regarding his semantics. I see.

I believe his reference was your alluding to being in some black or unacknowledged conflict (I think that is a better word perhaps) where an enemy's “tool of choice” is artillery vs mortar. Now I know that you have now stated that mortars are artillery and I won’t argue that point but given that the OP divides the two and your original post seemed to do the same I think it a bit disingenuous to now simply retreat to the position that they are one and the same as that doesn’t really address AA’s (or my) point that your veiled references to conflicts which you have ‘experience’ in are at best questionable.

The finer points of what are classified as mortars and what is artillery is of no real consequence in this discussion.

I’m not retreating; I find it comical for one to get so worked up over nothing.

There not one in the same, that’s never been my position, I know their different; Just as there is a difference in artillery brigade and an artillery piece.

Anyone’s real world experience in forums are questionable, that’s why I don’t take them serious…You say you this or that, then you’re this or that (not saying you did, just an ex.). The effort to disprove someone in a forum isn’t my forte…but if in the mood I’d entertain responses, as long as no one is taking it to a derogatory level; which no one has.

Many of my experiences have been classified, and I've never been one for details. If one reads more into what was typed, then that's on them.

The finer points don't matter to me, more for AA.

Absinthe Anecdote
02-18-2015, 08:20 PM
- Guess our definition of "smack" talking is extremely different.

- So a rocket is artillery? Yes thanks… blows knuckles and walk off the stage

No, a rocket is a rocket, but are you now trying to claim you were referring to Hamas rocket fire in your first post?




- I notice you like to add words to prove your point, hell maybe the British do classify grenade launchers as such...but again, I didn't say that.

- No I'm not in Army, British or otherwise

I didn't add a word to your post. I colored the British spelling of the word caliber in that awful definition of artillery you found in a British dictionary.

Whatever branch of service you are in, or pretending to be in, do a bit more research the next time you drop a whopper on an Internet forum.

Really, you should be thanking me because I just taught you a whole bunch of things you can use the next time you decide to play billy-badass.

Speakit
02-18-2015, 08:42 PM
No, a rocket is a rocket, but are you now trying to claim you were referring to Hamas rocket fire in your first post?

I didn't add a word to your post. I colored the British spelling of the word caliber in that awful definition of artillery you found in a British dictionary.

Whatever branch of service you are in, or pretending to be in, do a bit more research the next time you drop a whopper on an Internet forum.

Really, you should be thanking me because I just taught you a whole bunch of things you can use the next time you decide to play billy-badass.

Umm ok, thanks for the lesson of nothing and I wasn't referring to the calibre, but to the grenade launcher.

Yes, I'm Billy-badass, because I heard the whistle, and crushed your sensitive heart. Your right I'm faking, I'm not in the military, I'm just pretending, I've never been deployed, all that Call of Duty game play has gone to my head.

Let’s just agree your experiences differ than mine, and mine differ than yours.

Research and Internet forums in the same sentence... now that's funny.

CYBERFX1024
02-18-2015, 09:38 PM
After returning from a few tour’s in those lovely “places”, I can say the whistle is real and typically means it’s near and has just passed overhead and about to impact; at least when it comes to artillery shells, the enemy tool of choice.

I concur with this as well. I have been quite close to some mortar attacks while in Iraq and I have always heard a whistle before it impacted. That you usually means that you are pretty close to where it will impact if you hear it.

CYBERFX1024
02-18-2015, 09:43 PM
I can get the point that either will kill you just as dead. At the same time, it is important (for those whose mission it is to go find these things and destroy them) to know what they are and are capable of ... rather than hunkering down and waiting for someone to do it.

Yes, you hunker down and wait for it to end. I have done this many times as a Marine and as a Civilian. The ONLY time you DO NOT hunker down is if you are caught out in the open with no protection. Then you run for any kind of shelter. Unless you get used to mortars so much that you can tell it does not have a snowball's chance in hell of being close, then you go about your business.

Rainmaker
02-18-2015, 09:50 PM
Going to have to agree with you Rain. Had 81mm mortar fire fired obliquely over my head and impact less than 1000 meters to my front. Heard the crump of rounds outbound but never heard any whistle.

I did however hear the whistle of thousands of ground burst simulators...............does that count? I have always wondered myself about the 'whistle'.

Where did you see an AC-130 livefire? Was present for many on the ranges at Indian Springs AAF (now Creech AFB)

on one of the Eglin Ranges.... while, stationed at KHRT many moons ago in the days of the traveling circus.... awesome platform

Rollyn01
02-18-2015, 11:28 PM
Mortars do make a whistling sound. Whether you can hear it or not depends its speed as it falls and your age. The whistling is caused by the holes in the tail section as air passes through them. How loud it is depends on the speed. The pitch (frequency) can be such that it's beyond the range of your ability to hear due to your age. As you grow older, the upper bound of audible frequency gets lower as well as the ability to hear faint sounds. As such, people of differing ages will have differing ability to hear the whistling. For some, it will make a noise. For others, it's silence.

As for whether or not mortars count as artillery, that's a definitive no. Although they both send projectiles from point "A" to point "B" high up in the air, a mortar fires its projectile using a separate powder charge that is not part of the round's assembly when loaded to fire as well as always being muzzle-loaded by being dropped into the launch tube. Artillery is loaded in the rear (breech-loading) of a barrel-gun with a round that already has its powder charge as part of the round's assembly.

Yeah... I think it's safe to say that guy has no idea what he's talking about but I hope I did answered the OP's question.

garhkal
02-19-2015, 07:29 AM
Thanks' for the help guys (and gals if any of you are here).

Stalwart
02-19-2015, 12:12 PM
Yes, you hunker down and wait for it to end. I have done this many times as a Marine and as a Civilian. The ONLY time you DO NOT hunker down is if you are caught out in the open with no protection. Then you run for any kind of shelter. Unless you get used to mortars so much that you can tell it does not have a snowball's chance in hell of being close, then you go about your business.

Concur. We also had to engage returning fire & at times were directing mobile folks to try to get eyes on the shooter. I wasn't at a FOB too often, and understand that things change too.

UncaRastus
02-19-2015, 03:09 PM
In the old Navy, 16 inch guns were loaded with the projectile, then powder bags were pushed in behind the round. My .50 cal. rifle is centerfire, and I load using pellets of propellant. Not black powder, though that could be used. Then there are the old cannons that were first loaded with the propellant, front the front of the barrel., then the projectile was loaded from the front, just as my rifle is.

Mortars, from back while I was in anyway, were preloaded. The 'increment(s)' was/were placed in the base of the mortar round, not directly into the tube.

TJMAC77SP
02-19-2015, 03:45 PM
I’m not retreating; I find it comical for one to get so worked up over nothing.

There not one in the same, that’s never been my position, I know their different; Just as there is a difference in artillery brigade and an artillery piece.

Anyone’s real world experience in forums are questionable, that’s why I don’t take them serious…You say you this or that, then you’re this or that (not saying you did, just an ex.). The effort to disprove someone in a forum isn’t my forte…but if in the mood I’d entertain responses, as long as no one is taking it to a derogatory level; which no one has.

Many of my experiences have been classified, and I've never been one for details. If one reads more into what was typed, then that's on them.

The finer points don't matter to me, more for AA.

I am hardly worked up but I see that kind of terminology a lot on the MTF when someone's posts are challenged. The ubiquitous 'ya mad bro' defense seems a go-to position.

I found your later posts (including to some degree this one) to be off-point with your original post and thus seems a back-pedal of sorts (a retreat to use another word).

As to classified experiences.........I have found that the truly initiated just don't mention them...........at all...........including veiled references. Hence my original post about "I could tell you but then I would have to kill you" type posts.

Stalwart
02-19-2015, 06:38 PM
Thanks Stalwart...

I know you avoid being confrontational in here, and while I respect you for taking the high road and not thrashing other posters, I have no such qualms.



Thanks. I try :)

I don't always take the high road ... circa 2011 I kind of lit into someone on here ... I kind of think he was trolling for it and for that I feel dumb for feeding the troll.

Absinthe Anecdote
02-20-2015, 12:34 AM
Thanks. I try :)

I don't always take the high road ... circa 2011 I kind of lit into someone on here ... I kind of think he was trolling for it and for that I feel dumb for feeding the troll.

Are you kidding me?

In 2011, you are worrying about busting somebody's chops?

Wow! I could fuck with people on the level of three-card-monte, and never violate their trust when compared to you.

Be yourself, Sir!

You will find that your troops will happily follow you.

and help clean up, when most needed, and least asked for...

sandsjames
02-20-2015, 12:58 AM
I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but I am. Based solely on terminology, many are willing to state that a guy who says he's been near artillery/mortar fire wasn't. Not only that, it seems to have united all of the usual arguing parties.

Gotta love the internet.

Absinthe Anecdote
02-20-2015, 01:12 AM
I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but I am. Based solely on terminology, many are willing to state that a guy who says he's been near artillery/mortar fire wasn't. Not only that, it seems to have united all of the usual arguing parties.

Gotta love the internet.

Having just returned from small engine repair school, I can say that the fat lazy instructors are the most disgusting, the enemy's tool of choice.

TJMAC77SP
02-20-2015, 06:10 AM
I guess I shouldn't be surprised, but I am. Based solely on terminology, many are willing to state that a guy who says he's been near artillery/mortar fire wasn't. Not only that, it seems to have united all of the usual arguing parties.

Gotta love the internet.

Well, as I stated in my first post............the hand is reaching for the BS flag when the "I gotta secret and can't tell you" posts come around. Of course there is always room for doubt but a few more posts usually solidifies the feeling.............it did.

I do get your point though...............Human sacrifice, dogs and cats living together... mass hysteria!

sandsjames
02-20-2015, 11:12 AM
Having just returned from small engine repair school, I can say that the fat lazy instructors are the most disgusting, the enemy's tool of choice.

I'm disappointed. I had hoped your creativity would have improved while you were "away".