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View Full Version : Embassy security told to leave guns behind???1



garhkal
02-12-2015, 10:14 PM
I was told elsewhere, that the marine security force at the Yemini embassy who were recently evacuated with everyone else, were told to leave their weapons behind? How the F is that legal?

UncaRastus
02-13-2015, 01:00 AM
As an update, the crew served weapons were destroyed by the Marines taking out the bolts, then sledge hammers were used on the bolts, then the weapons were further made inoperable by the use of sledge hammers upon the barrels.

The Marines withdrew, taking their personally carried firearms with them.
.

Capt Alfredo
02-13-2015, 01:14 AM
Don't ever let the facts get in the way of a good outrage, Garhkal. "I was told" indeed.

UncaRastus
02-13-2015, 02:10 AM
Due to differing reports, it is hard to figure out what happened. The prevailing new news stories have the Marines indeed destroying all crew served weapons at the embassy, and when ready to depart from the airport, that they destroyed the bolts and the barrels of their personal weapons, using sledge hammers. No weapons went from the Marines into the hands of the Houthi rebels.

Of course, tomorrow, we may hear that the Marines gladly gave the rebels some really old M16s, and told them that they never needed to clean them.

garhkal
02-13-2015, 05:45 AM
As an update, the crew served weapons were destroyed by the Marines taking out the bolts, then sledge hammers were used on the bolts, then the weapons were further made inoperable by the use of sledge hammers upon the barrels.

The Marines withdrew, taking their personally carried firearms with them.
.

So why were they told to destroy them, wasting tax payer money rather than take them with them?

Mjölnir
02-13-2015, 11:26 AM
So why were they told to destroy them, wasting tax payer money rather than take them with them?

Crew served weapons are heavy & bulky and depending on transport etc. there may not have been room or lift capability.

If you are talking about an M240 that is one thing to lug around by one person an M2, a MK19 or a mortar ... is a totally different kind of weapon.

Rusty Jones
02-13-2015, 11:58 AM
I was told elsewhere, that the marine security force at the Yemini embassy who were recently evacuated with everyone else, were told to leave their weapons behind? How the F is that legal?

Damn, garhkal, you really look for things to get mad about!

MitchellJD1969
02-13-2015, 02:03 PM
Well this looks like another rousing foreign policy success!!!

At the very least we should have left the embassy building littered with claymores and other booby traps to welcome anybody that enters inside.

UncaRastus
02-13-2015, 05:03 PM
Mjölnir ,

I always thought that mortars should be shoulder fired weapons, anyway. About that, from hearing what firing a Japanese WW2 knee mortar by placing it on your knee really did to American knees, that happened because the Americans didn't use Japanese knees to fire them from.

With the new armor worn by Marines, shoulder firing should be rather easy to do! That is, if the shoulder IS protected, and the Marine weighs in at 500 pounds, to deal with the recoil. I hear that 120mm mortars have a lot of kick!

From what I recall, didn't mortars use from 1 to 4 increments (firing charges)? What if the Marines use duct tape to reinforce the mortar tube? Couldn't they use up to 10 increments?

Or maybe saw around the mortar tube almost all the way through, camo the saw marks with some wood putty and paint, and just leave it laying around like an easter egg, and let the enemy find out what trying to use American weapons can do.

Leave a 240, also. Place a doctored up VERY high explosive round in the chamber, and let the ISIS find out what hilarious fun trying to fire a sabotaged weapon can be!

I can see it now. On ISIS's Funniest Home Videos! Let's all watch an ISIS member find out how easy it can be to get to paradise sooner than expected!

Can a person get to paradise with the head blown off, though?

MitchellJD1969, I like your kindly thought. Maybe we could paint each and every ball bearing that will be our welcome to the embassy with the saying, "Howdy! Have fun trying to find the blown off parts of your body! Love, The Marines."

I know, it's hard to write that much on a ball bearing, but as we all know, a successful greeting depends on the presentation!

SomeRandomGuy
02-13-2015, 05:32 PM
As an update, the crew served weapons were destroyed by the Marines taking out the bolts, then sledge hammers were used on the bolts, then the weapons were further made inoperable by the use of sledge hammers upon the barrels.

The Marines withdrew, taking their personally carried firearms with them.
.

Isn't this standard procedure with all emergency evacuations? In Finance, our regulations actually state the various methods to destroy currency during an evacuation and how to document it. Obviously, currency is a different situation because it can always be re-printed.

Maybe I'm an idiot (strong possibility) but I assumed every other career field would treat their tools the same way. If you can't take it with you then you destroy it. Is that not the case? Or is Garhkal just really confused?

efmbman
02-13-2015, 06:52 PM
So why were they told to destroy them, wasting tax payer money rather than take them with them?

One of the articles I read is that transport was by a private Omani jet. I would imagine that the pilots, crew and owner of that aircraft have safety measures in place that may prohibit carry-on crew served weapons. If transport was a C-130 or a C-5, I bet they would have taken more stuff. This is not as unusual as you may think. Priority is our people, not items. The Marines did the right thing by rendering the weapons that were left behind unusable.

garhkal
02-13-2015, 10:41 PM
Isn't this standard procedure with all emergency evacuations? In Finance, our regulations actually state the various methods to destroy currency during an evacuation and how to document it. Obviously, currency is a different situation because it can always be re-printed.

Maybe I'm an idiot (strong possibility) but I assumed every other career field would treat their tools the same way. If you can't take it with you then you destroy it. Is that not the case? Or is Garhkal just really confused?

But since this situation has been ongoing for at least a month now (where we have been talking about evacuating it), why the heck did they wait till the last damn minute to get out of there, prompting us to destroy everything left behind, when anyone with a modicum of common sense would have seen this coming and would have planned several trips to take those heavier weapons out first!

Measure Man
02-13-2015, 11:04 PM
Just stop it.


But since this situation has been ongoing for at least a month now (where we have been talking about evacuating it), why the heck did they wait till the last damn minute to get out of there,

...because you don't leave until it's time to leave...then you leave fast.


prompting us to destroy everything left behind, when anyone with a modicum of common sense would have seen this coming and would have planned several trips to take those heavier weapons out first!

Really...you wanted them to take the weapons out before the people to save a few bucks? How stupid can someone get?? I can't imagine where the hell sense like that is common, but I hope it's not on our planet.

"Yes, Marine and embassy staff, we know this country is in turmoil, but, we're going to leave you only with light firearms because, gee, we'd really hate to waste $10,000 of taxpayer money on heavy weapons for you."

Dammit, I feel dumber just for having read that. Why bring weapons in there at all if, at the sign of trouble, we evacuate the weapons first? God dammit, man...can you tell how utterly ridiculous that sounds in your head or do you have to read it out loud?

I mean, this would be a pretty fricking funny Monty Python sketch, 'The Lark of War--incredibly moronic battle plans" by Sun Tzupid...but you're serious!

It's not like we left billions of dollars of stuff...a few dozen or so weapons that are destroyed. This is in almost every contingency bug-out plan everywhere.

This is standard operating procedure...stay away from the lunatic websites, they just post one stupid nonsense "End of America" bullshit story after another and you're embarassing yourself...every time you bring that nonsense here it turns out the same.

I'd think you would've learned by now.

Oh no...it's gonna be Friday the 13th two months in a row...obama adminsitration plan for darkness to attack Christian Americans everywhere...only "The Realest World Truthiness Website" uncovered this dastardly plan in time to foil it...you guys watch too much Batman growing up or something.



Cue Rainman with some more dumber than rocks Zionist, Marxist, Liberal Plan to ruin White America bullshit in 3...2...1...but, at least he's only playing a character.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X6WHBO_Qc-Q#t=29

Measure Man
02-13-2015, 11:17 PM
:sucks::sucks:

UncaRastus
02-14-2015, 01:33 AM
On this subject, but some years back, when Mogadishu was evacuated, the last serviceman to leave Mogadishu out to a ship was a Marine. All of the American equipment which couldn't be loaded was piled on the waterfront. That Marine, off shore at the time, used a radio controlled detonator, and all of the equipment at the docks, piers, and other parts of the waterfront and so on was blasted to pieces.

I am pretty sure that some advance parties that went out there to get the equipment, call Americans cowards, and to celebrate, were vaporized too.

Marines are very good at not only killing, they are also masters at breaking stuff, either with sledge hammers, or with explosives.

The only thing that I can think of that caused them to destroy their personal weapons was that if it was a private Omani jet, I am pretty sure that somebody from the Omani government or military was on that flight, and told them that there was no way that they could board the jet with their weapons.

Marines clean their weapons before they eat. They sometimes sleep with them during boot camp, because of some infraction by a single recruit. During boot camp, some D.I.s make the recruits give their rifles a girl's name. The Rifleman's Creed, a sort of prayer, is recited by recruits. A Marine without his rifle is like a day without air.

So, I am sure that though they had to destroy them, there are some pretty gloomy Marines, right now.

The Rifleman Man's Creed

This is my rifle. There are many like it, but this one is mine.
My rifle is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I must master my life.
My rifle, without me, is useless. Without my rifle, I am useless. I must fire my rifle true. I must shoot straighter than my enemy who is trying to kill me. I must shoot him before he shoots me. I will...
My rifle and I know that what counts in war is not the rounds we fire, the noise of our burst, nor the smoke we make. We know that it is the hits that count. We will hit...
My rifle is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its parts, its accessories, its sights and its barrel. I will keep my rifle clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part of each other. We will...
Before God, I swear this creed. My rifle and I are the defenders of my country. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my life.
So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace!

waveshaper2
02-14-2015, 01:48 AM
But since this situation has been ongoing for at least a month now (where we have been talking about evacuating it), why the heck did they wait till the last damn minute to get out of there, prompting us to destroy everything left behind, when anyone with a modicum of common sense would have seen this coming and would have planned several trips to take those heavier weapons out first!

If you were following the news you would know that the U.S. Embassy in Yemen has been downsizing its mission, evacuating non-essential personnel, and basically preparing to evacuate for months.

It Sounds like these Marines followed their SOP/Orders, making only minor adjustments (which almost always happens) during this fluid/evolving situation.

How soon we forget/Routine stuff;
I'm sure there are folks here that have been stationed at high threat fixed locations/sites/bases overseas (Europe/ROK/etc) that had base denial and emergency destruction/evacuation procedures. These type procedures are practiced/exercised frequently and hopefully can be accomplished in a short amount of time/before being overrun/evacuated. Typical things that most likely will be left behind and require emergency destruction/disablement, hopefully time permitting (which never happens) and prioritized; Classified/crypto, weapons/weapon systems, Non-operational aircraft, vehicles, munitions, infrastructure, etc, etc. This may also include the disablement of Nuclear Weapons and destruction of Critical Nuclear Weapons/Systems Components that can't be evacuated.

garhkal
02-14-2015, 06:24 AM
Really...you wanted them to take the weapons out before the people to save a few bucks? How stupid can someone get?? I can't imagine where the hell sense like that is common, but I hope it's not on our planet.

It comes from a sense that we already waste enough money as is, why waste MORE. YES they should have say a 2 day plan in place. One for evac of the people, one for the gear.
And saving 40k is NOT saving just a few bucks.

garhkal
02-14-2015, 06:26 AM
Its not a war contingency plan, but an Evacuation plan.
I hate that we already left Iraq with $100000s of dollars worth of vehicles, and other stuff in, just cause some politician wanted to save a dime on gas from having to fly it all back. Why do the same with Embassies.

Measure Man
02-14-2015, 07:43 AM
It comes from a sense that we already waste enough money as is, why waste MORE.

So, two weeks ago, when shit started heating up....your bright idea of "a modicum of common sense" is to ship the weapons out??? You wanted to tell some Marine guards in Yemen that we don't want to waste any more money so, please send their heavy weapons back to Virginia....

???? Wait...are you playing a character too??? This shit is too stupid to be real.


YES they should have say a 2 day plan in place. One for evac of the people, one for the gear.
And saving 40k is NOT saving just a few bucks.

Just shut up...you have NO idea what you talking about. 40K is NOTHING...do you know how much shit we left in Iraq? Why? Because it would have been full retard to leave people there to transfer the equipment!!!

40K? Holy shit dude...I want to punch you in the face right now...and I'm normally known as the mild-mannered guy around here.

Just stop...this entire thread is idiotic...and you have doubled down on it by suggesting we should ship weapons out first to save taxpayer money...seriously, my 3 yr old grandson is laughing at you...just do us all a favor and STFU.

I seriously want to see the video where you explain to the Marine Lt. Col. why shipping their weapons out before it gets ugly is a good idea.

This has to be the most stupidest thought process I've ever been part of in my entire life. Alcohol included.

40K? The cost of one of the F-150s driving around Fairchild AFB giving parking tickets to a pregnant moms...and you wanna pull heavy weapons from two dozen Marines in Yemen? I have no words.

I will gladly take a lifetime ban from this forum to tell you that you this is absolutely the dumbest argument I have ever had the displeasure to be a part of. My god...fuck me... $40k or $400K...to leave our personnel there without arms? Fuck me..get your head out of the fucking loony websites and wake up!!!

Measure Man
02-14-2015, 07:54 AM
Its not a war contingency plan, but an Evacuation plan.
I hate that we already left Iraq with $100000s of dollars worth of vehicles, and other stuff in, just cause some politician wanted to save a dime on gas from having to fly it all back. Why do the same with Embassies.

Just stop embarrassing yourself.

I never pretend to be a combat veteran....,but your continuing to expand on your initial ignorance is just plain embarrassing.

Truly the dumbest post of the year...and several years.

TJMAC77SP
02-14-2015, 04:33 PM
So, two weeks ago, when shit started heating up....your bright idea of "a modicum of common sense" is to ship the weapons out??? You wanted to tell some Marine guards in Yemen that we don't want to waste any more money so, please send their heavy weapons back to Virginia....

???? Wait...are you playing a character too??? This shit is too stupid to be real.



Just shut up...you have NO idea what you talking about. 40K is NOTHING...do you know how much shit we left in Iraq? Why? Because it would have been full retard to leave people there to transfer the equipment!!!

40K? Holy shit dude...I want to punch you in the face right now...and I'm normally known as the mild-mannered guy around here.

Just stop...this entire thread is idiotic...and you have doubled down on it by suggesting we should ship weapons out first to save taxpayer money...seriously, my 3 yr old grandson is laughing at you...just do us all a favor and STFU.

I seriously want to see the video where you explain to the Marine Lt. Col. why shipping their weapons out before it gets ugly is a good idea.

This has to be the most stupidest thought process I've ever been part of in my entire life. Alcohol included.

40K? The cost of one of the F-150s driving around Fairchild AFB giving parking tickets to a pregnant moms...and you wanna pull heavy weapons from two dozen Marines in Yemen? I have no words.

I will gladly take a lifetime ban from this forum to tell you that you this is absolutely the dumbest argument I have ever had the displeasure to be a part of. My god...fuck me... $40k or $400K...to leave our personnel there without arms? Fuck me..get your head out of the fucking loony websites and wake up!!!

Who said you were the mild mannered one around here?

TJMAC77SP
02-14-2015, 04:44 PM
Garhkal...........you have fallen into a situation which is common on the MTF. You made an observation based on incomplete information and then spent the last couple of days trying to defend it as information came to light. This just dug the hole deeper.

There is a lot of common sense in MM's response to you regarding the timing of the destruction of the weapons, both the crew served and personal defense weapons. The only real WTF moment I have had in all the reporting of this was that their personal defense weapons had been left behind (official DoD statements claimed they had been disabled and handed over to the Yemeni security detail that escorted them to the airport). Further reporting that this was because they were departing via civilian aircraft, while completely stupid, does make sense in this upside world we live in. I have seen equally stupid decisions being forced upon US officials so can't say I am completely flabbergasted.

Just acknowledge that this isn't the personal machinations of Obama and move on.

Stalwart
02-14-2015, 05:33 PM
I have said it in here someone before that I attended the Marine Security Guard (Det Commander) Course for a couple of weeks before I was notified I was selected for commissioning. With that caveat:

The primary mission of Marine Security Guards is internal security at diplomatic and consular facilities so as to protect classified material vital to the national security of the United States. The secondary mission of the Guards is to provide protection for U.S. citizens and U.S property located within those posts. To do either of those missions, you need weapons ... sometimes a lot of them. If you have never seen the armory for an Embassy Guard detachment, you are missing out.


Isn't this standard procedure with all emergency evacuations?

Yes, and no. Depending on the withdrawl and how much notification you have to execute the evacuation. If you have weeks of notification you can start to phase out what you have on site but still need to retain a certain amount of firepower relative to the assessed threat. You need to keep that firepower on hand until all the classified is out or destroyed and then the personnel are out. The announcement to close the embassy was made Tues and the Ambassador ordered to leave by THURS, so 48 hours. I don't know if they had advanced warning or not but still, based on the situation outside (if it were me) I would want to retain some crew served weapons capability to repel folks rushing my position.


Maybe I'm an idiot (strong possibility)

That is your call :)

BT BT

I read this AM that the Marines also as they departed turned over their personal weapons, seems odd to me sure ... but if that is what they were ordered to do as part of the evacuation plan ... there you have it.

BT BT

So, what was the cost of destroying these weapons (and some vehicles at the embassy etc.) Yeah, it is a shame to disable otherwise well serviced and maintained gear. At the same time, I would want that gear up until the point I no longer needed it, which is about the time I am getting my detachment out of the country. How much money was lost ... $40k, $60k, $100k ... does it matter? That was what was spent to ensure the protection of the classified, the civilian U.S. personnel and those Marines until they were out of the country and harm's way. How much does it cost to rescue a downed pilot with a TRAP team, or to conduct search operations in a DUSTWUN scenario, or to search for a Sailor lost at sea? It isn't cheap ... but it is the price we are willing to pay to recover & or protect people.

Stalwart
02-14-2015, 05:44 PM
Marines clean their weapons before they eat. They sometimes sleep with them during boot camp, because of some infraction by a single recruit. During boot camp, some D.I.s make the recruits give their rifles a girl's name. The Rifleman's Creed, a sort of prayer, is recited by recruits. A Marine without his rifle is like a day without air.

My rifle in boot camp was Belinda, serial number 6873383.

BZO was 8/3 - 2 with +1 R windage at 200 yards.

Yes, Marines and their rifles are something special.


Go to the 7:30 mark to see the best rifle inspection you will ever see.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CXa39XyP6q8

garhkal
02-14-2015, 09:19 PM
Just shut up...you have NO idea what you talking about. 40K is NOTHING...do you know how much shit we left in Iraq? Why? Because it would have been full retard to leave people there to transfer the equipment!!!

SO cause we left shit back in Iraq (which to me was stupid as hell, since a lot of it has gotten into ISIS's hands), we should not worry about doing it again? ANd you call me stupid? Stupid is doing the same dumb stuff time and time again.

garhkal
02-14-2015, 09:21 PM
Just stop embarrassing yourself.

I never pretend to be a combat veteran....,but your continuing to expand on your initial ignorance is just plain embarrassing.

Truly the dumbest post of the year...and several years.

Since every year, when i was in, we had seminars and such discussing how "to try and prevent fraud, waste and abuse", how is me saying it's stupid to continually leave hundreds of thousands of dollars worth of gear behind, rather than spending the extra day or two to ship that shit out of country? IMO that is the HEIGHT of waste.

UncaRastus
02-15-2015, 01:21 AM
The Embassy security is there to protect Americans and the embassy staff, including the ambassador. They are under orders given by the ambassador. Until the ambassador is out of there, Marines have to remain where they are. If there is an incoming attack on the embassy, and the Marines are still there, in the last men out strategy that has been in place for many years, the Marines need to have all of the possible weapons on hand to repel such attacks.

To pull out all of the Marines firepower prior to the Marines being authorized to leave would leave a bunch of dead Marines.

Ambassadors are very hard to budge out of embassies. They are THE political power that the USA has in place in those countries.

How much is an American life worth? How much is a Marine's life worth? How about the ambassador?

I agree with the fact that sometimes we leave too much gear. But if, say the enemy gets a tank. Or anything else that would need parts, pretty quickly, because tanks eat parts, as well as much of what we might abandon. Where would the enemy get those parts? From the nearby junkyard?

No, the only place that makes those parts are the USA, hopefully. Or a very close ally. When much of our gear breaks down, it is just a pile of metal.

Like I said, yes, sometimes we do leave stuff. And sometimes also, what we leave may be either next to breaking down, or already broken down.

Anyhow, if the Marines leave some wrecked weapons, that is because they have to have them on hand until the last moment. The ambassador has the say for when they can leave. In the case of Benghazi, we know why the Marines were not on hand, because they were ordered out by the ambassador.

That guy is dead because of no Marine guards being there to protect him. It has been said that he really had no grasp of the stupidity of ordering the Marine out of Benghazi.

Which is pretty darned obvious now, isn't it?

Rainmaker
02-15-2015, 03:28 AM
Well this looks like another rousing foreign policy success!!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9RC1Mepk_Sw

Don't worry. We just Arab Springed some folks... it's all part of the the PNAC plan to expand Greater Israel from the Nile to the Euphrates. Everything is right on track...Bahrain is next...