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giggawatt
02-03-2015, 02:19 AM
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[The New England Patriots are Superbowl champions once again! All hail King Brady, the GOAT. ]

http://m2.nflrush.com/bz/brady-king-01.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lVaIPHS.jpg

[Inb4 Cheatriots
Inb5 Belicheat
Inb6 Deflategate]

sandsjames
02-03-2015, 10:12 AM
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[The New England Patriots are Superbowl champions once again! All hail King Brady, the GOAT. ]

http://m2.nflrush.com/bz/brady-king-01.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/lVaIPHS.jpg

[Inb4 Cheatriots
Inb5 Belicheat
Inb6 Deflategate]


Maybe the 2nd GOAT. Maybe...

Rainmaker
02-03-2015, 01:21 PM
Maybe the 2nd GOAT. Maybe...

Montana > Brady

sandsjames
02-03-2015, 02:24 PM
Montana > Brady

Indeed. I've heard the argument that Brady is better because there was no salary cap in Montana's era...however, in Brady's era the defenders aren't allowed to touch the recievers. In the 80s, the slants and crossing patterns had to be much more accurate or the reciever would get killed. Plus, 4-0 vs 4-2.

giggawatt
02-04-2015, 06:34 AM
Brady has more playoff appearances AND wins. Getting to 6 SBs is better than only getting to 4. Let's not forget the other 6 were lost basically on miracle plays.

And let's not kid ourselves here. Receivers can and will still get crushed over the middle. Brady very rarely hangs his receivers out to dry. He's pretty damn accurate.

Montana also had Rice for half of his career.

Just accept it and bow down to your lord and king peasants.

sandsjames
02-04-2015, 12:13 PM
Brady has more playoff appearances AND wins. Getting to 6 SBs is better than only getting to 4. Let's not forget the other 6 were lost basically on miracle plays.

And let's not kid ourselves here. Receivers can and will still get crushed over the middle. Brady very rarely hangs his receivers out to dry. He's pretty damn accurate.

Montana also had Rice for half of his career.

Just accept it and bow down to your lord and king peasants.

I'm not saying that Brady isn't a great quarterback. However, take a look at QB stats over the last 10 years compared to the 1980s. 75% of the QBs are throwing for more TDs and yards than the top QBs were throwing for in the 80s. The passing game is completely different. QBs are protected. Receivers are protected.

You mention Rice, but let's not forget that Montana won his first 2 SBs without rice on the team, his best receiver at the time being a slow white guy name Dwight Clark (who was good but probably wouldn't start on most teams today).

I hope next you don't decide to compare Belichick to Bill Walsh, as the majority of teams are still running Walsh's offense 30 years later.

Overall, though, I'd put Brady at #2 or #3.

edit: I also would bet that if you asked Brady who was the best ever, he'd say Montana, as that is his childhood idol and who he tries to emulate.

Rainmaker
02-04-2015, 01:01 PM
I'm not saying that Brady isn't a great quarterback. However, take a look at QB stats over the last 10 years compared to the 1980s. 75% of the QBs are throwing for more TDs and yards than the top QBs were throwing for in the 80s. The passing game is completely different. QBs are protected. Receivers are protected.

You mention Rice, but let's not forget that Montana won his first 2 SBs without rice on the team, his best receiver at the time being a slow white guy name Dwight Clark (who was good but probably wouldn't start on most teams today).

I hope next you don't decide to compare Belichick to Bill Walsh, as the majority of teams are still running Walsh's offense 30 years later.

Overall, though, I'd put Brady at #2 or #3.

edit: I also would bet that if you asked Brady who was the best ever, he'd say Montana, as that is his childhood idol and who he tries to emulate.

Unitas > Montana.....and Dwight Clark had a faster 40 time than Jerry Rice.... Rice only ran a 4.7, which just so happens to be what Rainmaker ran in HS. there's more to being a great receiver than just a 40 time.

sandsjames
02-04-2015, 01:32 PM
Brady has more playoff appearances AND wins. He has more of these because of the era he plays in. Montana's career could have been much longer if he was protected like today's QBs. Don't forget, 10 years in between SB wins. That's a lot of failure.

Rainmaker
02-04-2015, 02:21 PM
He has more of these because of the era he plays in. Montana's career could have been much longer if he was protected like today's QBs. Don't forget, 10 years in between SB wins. That's a lot of failure.

2nd Place is the 1st Loser...

http://www.nfl.com/qs/bracketology/round1.jsp

sandsjames
02-04-2015, 03:21 PM
2nd Place is the 1st Loser...

http://www.nfl.com/qs/bracketology/round1.jsp

Let me start by saying now that this "poll" has zero credibility. Gannon over Favre? McNabb over Warner? Bledsoe over Aikman and Wilson over Manning?

Rainmaker
02-04-2015, 04:03 PM
Let me start by saying now that this "poll" has zero credibility. Gannon over Favre? McNabb over Warner? Bledsoe over Aikman and Wilson over Manning?

It Has about as much credibility as you saying a 2 time pro bowler like Dwight Clark wouldn't start on most teams today.

http://www.givemesport.com/434833-jerry-rice-40-yard-dash-doesnt-mean-sht

sandsjames
02-04-2015, 04:17 PM
It Has about as much credibility as you saying a 2 time pro bowler like Dwight Clark wouldn't start on most teams today.

I'm a huge Dwight Clark fan. I'm a huge 49er fan. If I had a team, I'd take him in a heartbeat. He would be a successful receiver today. He just wouldn't be one of the top receivers in the league and wouldn't be the #1 receiver on any but a couple teams around the league, though he'd make a very good Tight End.

Rainmaker
02-04-2015, 04:57 PM
I'm a huge Dwight Clark fan. I'm a huge 49er fan. If I had a team, I'd take him in a heartbeat. He would be a successful receiver today. He just wouldn't be one of the top receivers in the league and wouldn't be the #1 receiver on any but a couple teams around the league, though he'd make a very good Tight End.

yeah and Jack Tatum and Jack Lambert probably wouldn't even be drafted today either.

sandsjames
02-04-2015, 06:03 PM
yeah and Jack Tatum and Jack Lambert probably wouldn't even be drafted today either.

It's hard to say with those positions. There are a few exceptions but, overall, today's defenders are just too fast and too strong. You have 320 pound guys now that are just as quick as the 240 pound guys were 30-40 years ago. Of course, skill can almost always overcome size and strength but, overall, guys like those guys would struggle quite a bit more.

That's not a criticism. It's almost like saying "Who would win a 100 meter dash, Bolt or Carl Lewis?". It's not knock on Lewis, it's just that guys continue to get bigger, stronger, and faster than they were then...there is only one position left in the NFL where you don't have to be more "athletic" than 30 years ago, and that's QB. Otherwise, guys like the Manning brothers would never be successful.

There are a few of the greats who I do believe would still excel. Montana and Walter Payton are two of them. That's what makes them the greatest ever at their position. You could plug them in to any era.

efmbman
02-04-2015, 06:52 PM
No love for Bradshaw? The guy won 4 titles in a 6-year span. Has any other QB done that? Has any other team done that? I'm not a "Steelers guy", but that is an accomplishment.

sandsjames
02-04-2015, 07:18 PM
No love for Bradshaw? The guy won 4 titles in a 6-year span. Has any other QB done that? Has any other team done that? I'm not a "Steelers guy", but that is an accomplishment.

It is definitely an accomplishment. I will say the he was as good a QB as a team with that strong of a defense needed. It was a different era and he fit into it perfectly. Do I think he could be successful if he played in today's game? Probably not.

giggawatt
02-05-2015, 05:06 AM
No love for Bradshaw? The guy won 4 titles in a 6-year span. Has any other QB done that? Has any other team done that? I'm not a "Steelers guy", but that is an accomplishment.

Yeah, but have you seen his stats over that span? You're talking about the Steel Curtain winning those titles. I don't think the guy threw more than 1 TD in each of those games. I think we talked about this once too but Eli Manning won 2 SBs in 4 years but I don't think anyone would consider him a great or HOF QB.

I would put Belicheck right up there next to Walsh. Let's not forget that Walsh was able to keep his team together. Give BB credit for doing what he's done with a revolving door his entire time with the team. Brady has been his only constant.

Montana also had his share of failure too. He didn't even make it to the NFC championship game the seasons he didn't win the SB. Brady has been to 9 AFCCG. Nine conference title games and won 6 of them.

I would also contend that the other 2 SBs that the Patriots lost were lost by freak plays. Tyree was a miracle. Manningham was just a great bit of skill but still almost miraculous. And Welker dropping that pass that would give them that crucial 1st down in 2012. Brady did his part to put the Pats in position to win and hid D pissed it away. It almost did again this year.

sandsjames
02-05-2015, 10:22 AM
Montana also had his share of failure too. He didn't even make it to the NFC championship game the seasons he didn't win the SB. Brady has been to 9 AFCCG. Nine conference title games and won 6 of them.



1983 and 1990 they were in the NCF Championship game. That means that in a 10 year span with Montana at the helm, they were in the Championship game 6 times. And in 90 they were within field goal range with a shot at a game winning kick (lost 15-13) when Roger Craig fumbled trying to do nothing more than run the clock down.

raider8169
02-07-2015, 05:08 PM
Yeah, but have you seen his stats over that span? You're talking about the Steel Curtain winning those titles. I don't think the guy threw more than 1 TD in each of those games. I think we talked about this once too but Eli Manning won 2 SBs in 4 years but I don't think anyone would consider him a great or HOF QB.

I would put Belicheck right up there next to Walsh. Let's not forget that Walsh was able to keep his team together. Give BB credit for doing what he's done with a revolving door his entire time with the team. Brady has been his only constant.

Montana also had his share of failure too. He didn't even make it to the NFC championship game the seasons he didn't win the SB. Brady has been to 9 AFCCG. Nine conference title games and won 6 of them.

I would also contend that the other 2 SBs that the Patriots lost were lost by freak plays. Tyree was a miracle. Manningham was just a great bit of skill but still almost miraculous. And Welker dropping that pass that would give them that crucial 1st down in 2012. Brady did his part to put the Pats in position to win and hid D pissed it away. It almost did again this year.

How many freak plays/rule violations helped get the Patriots to the SB? Tuck rule, under inflated balls, call steeling etc...

Freak plays are a part of the game. They could have stopped them but they didnt. Just like every other team.

giggawatt
02-08-2015, 09:08 PM
How many freak plays/rule violations helped get the Patriots to the SB? Tuck rule, under inflated balls, call steeling etc...

Freak plays are a part of the game. They could have stopped them but they didnt. Just like every other team.

Please tell me about all those rule viololations that helped the Patriots win 4 SBs.

Under inflated balls? Guess you don't keep up with sports news and just take blurp you saw on FB as the truth. And as if the balls helped Blount run riot all over the Colts.

TJMAC77SP
02-09-2015, 09:24 PM
Please tell me about all those rule viololations that helped the Patriots win 4 SBs.

Under inflated balls? Guess you don't keep up with sports news and just take blurp you saw on FB as the truth. And as if the balls helped Blount run riot all over the Colts.

When the hoopla hit about the play against the Ravens I had a Carnac the Magnificent moment and predicted we will see just about every team in the NFL run a similar if not the exact play next season.

From the Football Time Machine..............."He did what?!?! The quarterback actually THREW the ball to another player?!?!?! That Coach Warner is a fucking cheat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"

Rainmaker
02-10-2015, 01:55 PM
When the hoopla hit about the play against the Ravens I had a Carnac the Magnificent moment and predicted we will see just about every team in the NFL run a similar if not the exact play next season.

From the Football Time Machine..............."He did what?!?! The quarterback actually THREW the ball to another player?!?!?! That Coach Warner is a fucking cheat!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"


Actually you're not far off...


http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-early-history-of-footballs-forward-pass-78015237/?page=1


"Warner had elasticized bands sewn into his players’ jerseys so that after taking the kickoff, they would huddle, hide the ball under a jersey and break in different directions, confounding the kicking team. Warner argued there was no prohibition against the play in the rules. The tricks were how the smaller, faster Native Americans could compete against players 30 or 40 pounds heavier."

Sounds A lot like Belicheck!


Pop Warner was also quoted as using the word "redskin".... Racist... It's time We start a petition to rewrite history and give the credit for popularizing the forward pass to someone more progressive.... Maybe Bruce Jenner.

“How the Indians did take to it!” Warner remembered, according to Jenkins’ book. “Light on their feet as professional dancers, and every one amazingly skillful with his hands, the redskins pirouetted in and out until the receiver was well down the field, and then they shot the ball like a bullet.”

TJMAC77SP
02-11-2015, 01:12 PM
Actually you're not far off...


http://www.smithsonianmag.com/history/the-early-history-of-footballs-forward-pass-78015237/?page=1


"Warner had elasticized bands sewn into his players’ jerseys so that after taking the kickoff, they would huddle, hide the ball under a jersey and break in different directions, confounding the kicking team. Warner argued there was no prohibition against the play in the rules. The tricks were how the smaller, faster Native Americans could compete against players 30 or 40 pounds heavier."

Sounds A lot like Belicheck!


Pop Warner was also quoted as using the word "redskin".... Racist... It's time We start a petition to rewrite history and give the credit for popularizing the forward pass to someone more progressive.... Maybe Bruce Jenner.

“How the Indians did take to it!” Warner remembered, according to Jenkins’ book. “Light on their feet as professional dancers, and every one amazingly skillful with his hands, the redskins pirouetted in and out until the receiver was well down the field, and then they shot the ball like a bullet.”

I'll go along with you ignoring my point......So when did that it wasn't 'cheating'? He was innovative. I suppose you are right then. I also suppose that the NFL rule committee could make that play illegal in the future. Then Harbaaaaaaa can bitch

Rainmaker
02-11-2015, 06:45 PM
I'll go along with you ignoring my point......So when did that it wasn't 'cheating'? He was innovative. I suppose you are right then. I also suppose that the NFL rule committee could make that play illegal in the future. Then Harbaaaaaaa can bitch

If you ain't cheatin you ain't tryin...

TJMAC77SP
02-12-2015, 01:59 AM
If you ain't cheatin you ain't tryin...

With some people it's more like "If you ain't winning, you're whining"

SomeRandomGuy
02-12-2015, 12:53 PM
If you ain't cheatin you ain't tryin...

I tried this line on my ex-girlfriend. She didn't agree.

Rainmaker
02-12-2015, 12:58 PM
I tried this line on my ex-girlfriend. She didn't agree.

If you get caught you ain't tryin hard enough.