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View Full Version : Duke university to start Muslim call to prayer in Jan 15.



garhkal
01-15-2015, 09:14 PM
Saw this while looking for related stories to the Paris incident on CNN.
Apparently Duke university, as of this friday, will Start allowing the Muslims at the school, to broadcast the Islamic call to prayer on Fridays only.

So what's everyones thought on this?

http://us.cnn.com/2015/01/15/us/duke-call-to-prayer/index.html

Rainmaker
01-15-2015, 09:25 PM
Saw this while looking for related stories to the Paris incident on CNN.
Apparently Duke university, as of this friday, will Start allowing the Muslims at the school, to broadcast the Islamic call to prayer on Fridays only.

So what's everyones thought on this?

http://us.cnn.com/2015/01/15/us/duke-call-to-prayer/index.html

I'm sure the Pro-Marxist Professors at Duke University will offer extra credit to their white students, if they apologize for being white and be there to wash the feet of the Mahomets before they pray

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
01-15-2015, 10:02 PM
I imagine some atheists on campus will complain about the prayer calls. I also imagine many, if not most of the Muslims Duke is attempting to appease would gladly replace the US Constitution with Sharia Law.

garhkal
01-16-2015, 07:38 AM
Seems duke has reversed their decision to allow the call to prayer... Somewhat.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/15/us/duke-call-to-prayer/index.html

The part that makes me scratch my head, is since less than 5% of the school population is Muslim, how in gods name, did they feel this would UNIFY the campus?

Rainmaker
01-19-2015, 04:25 AM
Seems duke has reversed their decision to allow the call to prayer... Somewhat.
http://www.cnn.com/2015/01/15/us/duke-call-to-prayer/index.html

The part that makes me scratch my head, is since less than 5% of the school population is Muslim, how in gods name, did they feel this would UNIFY the campus?

These twisted ideologues don't care about Unifying anything. This is how the self-hating white Progressive, Academic mind works. They protest to ban Chick Filet from campus over a CEO's personal opinion.

But, then seek to tolerate Muslim Fundamentalists who'd love nothing more than to stone the homos to death.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
01-19-2015, 01:17 PM
These twisted ideologues don't care about Unifying anything. This is how the self-hating white Progressive, Academic mind works. They protest to ban Chick Filet from campus over a CEO's personal opinion.

But, then seek to tolerate Muslim Fundamentalists who'd love nothing more than to stone the homos to death.

The hypocrisy among progressive liberals is mind-numbing.

TJMAC77SP
01-19-2015, 02:30 PM
The fact that made me really scratch my head...........ok, that's a lie..........it made me suspect there was an agenda at work here (what else is new) is that there is a Mosque less than 2 miles from the Duke Chapel. Why do they need to perform the call to prayer from the chapel?

Measure Man
01-19-2015, 09:36 PM
I imagine some atheists on campus will complain about the prayer calls.

I would expect so...much like they probably would if Christian prayers were broadcast.

Unfortunately, I would expect if Fridays were "Christian prayer broadcast" many of those Christians who are outraged by the Muslim prayer deal would be rejoicing and ecstatic, and see no good reason why atheists and others could not simply be respectfully quiet for a few minutes.

Which sounds more like hypocrisy to you?


I also imagine many, if not most of the Muslims Duke is attempting to appease would gladly replace the US Constitution with Sharia Law.

This I have no idea...I like to think most American Muslims do not want to replace the Constitution...I like to think your generalizations and paranoia of Muslims is unfounded. How many Christians wouldn't mind replacing the Constitution with something more "Biblically Correct"? I don't know...seems like some would, but not the majority, I'm sure...many or most would like to at least amend to something they think is more in line with the Bible, that's for sure.


The hypocrisy among progressive liberals is mind-numbing.

...as is the hypocrisy of Christian Conservatives.


The fact that made me really scratch my head...........ok, that's a lie..........it made me suspect there was an agenda at work here (what else is new) is that there is a Mosque less than 2 miles from the Duke Chapel. Why do they need to perform the call to prayer from the chapel?

This is precisely why I'm waiting for the day that a Muslim or other religion prayer is said at a military function...because Christians will be outraged much like they were at this. I've yet to see a military base that does not have a church within 2 miles of the gate...so, for them to make prayer part of official functions...there must be an agenda, right?

Duke University is a private institution, to my knowledge, and naturally are free to do what they want, within the law and reason, of course. What is it the conservatives like to say? "Attending Duke University is a privilege, not a right, no one is forced to go there."

Seriously though...I disagree with them having Muslim prayer time on Fridays...I don't know if it was a liberal or conservative's idea to do it. For all I know it was a Christian Chaplain's idea who had an agenda to let them do that so he could do a Christian one on Monday...it's conceivable.

As someone who doesn't want Muslim or Christian prayer broadcast...I don't know what that makes me...

but, I think if someone is against Muslim prayer, but in favor of Christian prayer, or vice versa...that's probably where the hypocrites lie, and it's not the atheists...no more do I want a pronouncement that there is no God broadcast every Friday.

garhkal
01-19-2015, 10:40 PM
The fact that made me really scratch my head...........ok, that's a lie..........it made me suspect there was an agenda at work here (what else is new) is that there is a Mosque less than 2 miles from the Duke Chapel. Why do they need to perform the call to prayer from the chapel?

Plus if its a chapel, why is IT being allowed to be used for other religions?


Duke University is a private institution, to my knowledge, and naturally are free to do what they want, within the law and reason, of course.

If they are 'such a private org', why do they take in so much tax dollars from the govt?

Mjölnir
01-20-2015, 12:07 AM
I don't know...seems like some would, but not the majority, I'm sure...many or most would like to at least amend to something they think is more in line with the Bible, that's for sure.

I don't know about many or most, I would definately say "some." Depends on the people, hard-core in your fact converst now types -- sure. More laid back, live and let live Christians -- probably not looking to alter the Constitution so much; since most Christians are of the 'live and let live' variety, I would imagine it is more like "some."



This is precisely why I'm waiting for the day that a Muslim or other religion prayer is said at a military function...because Christians will be outraged much like they were at this.

I have seen a Muslim Chaplain give a non-denominational invocation and no one raised on issue about it.



but, I think if someone is against Muslim prayer, but in favor of Christian prayer, or vice versa...that's probably where the hypocrites lie, and it's not the atheists...no more do I want a pronouncement that there is no God broadcast every Friday.

Very good point.

TJMAC77SP
01-20-2015, 03:37 AM
This is precisely why I'm waiting for the day that a Muslim or other religion prayer is said at a military function...because Christians will be outraged much like they were at this. I've yet to see a military base that does not have a church within 2 miles of the gate...so, for them to make prayer part of official functions...there must be an agenda, right?

Duke University is a private institution, to my knowledge, and naturally are free to do what they want, within the law and reason, of course. What is it the conservatives like to say? "Attending Duke University is a privilege, not a right, no one is forced to go there."

Seriously though...I disagree with them having Muslim prayer time on Fridays...I don't know if it was a liberal or conservative's idea to do it. For all I know it was a Christian Chaplain's idea who had an agenda to let them do that so he could do a Christian one on Monday...it's conceivable.

As someone who doesn't want Muslim or Christian prayer broadcast...I don't know what that makes me...

but, I think if someone is against Muslim prayer, but in favor of Christian prayer, or vice versa...that's probably where the hypocrites lie, and it's not the atheists...no more do I want a pronouncement that there is no God broadcast every Friday.

MM, I am little confused as to why you quoted my post as most of the last part of your post intimates that I am somehow one of those Christians who balk at the prayer calls and 1. I am not, merely question the true motivation and 2. I am not a very good Christian. I believe that was asserted in an earlier thread.

You (or someone else) brought up this Muslim prayer at a military function before and I will repeat what I said then...I have been present at such an event. BCT graduation at Fort Jackson in October 2010. The Chaplin was an Imam and offered a Muslim prayer as the beginning and end of the ceremony. I didn't hear a single murmur. I am not saying it wouldn't happen but that is just my personal experience.

I strongly agree with you about where the hypocrisy would lie in the scenario you describe

Was the balking of prayers on Friday a joke?

TJMAC77SP
01-20-2015, 03:47 AM
Plus if its a chapel, why is IT being allowed to be used for other religions?



If they are 'such a private org', why do they take in so much tax dollars from the govt?

I don't know what money Duke gets from the US government but if any I imagine it is along the lines of most private universities. I don't see the problem with using the chapel for non-Christian services. My question had more to do with the question (or questions) why now and why there, when there an alternative available.

For the record Jewish services are held in the Freeman Center. Hindu and Buddhist share a space in the Bryan Center

Measure Man
01-20-2015, 02:54 PM
MM, I am little confused as to why you quoted my post as most of the last part of your post intimates that I am somehow one of those Christians who balk at the prayer calls and 1. I am not, merely question the true motivation and 2. I am not a very good Christian. I believe that was asserted in an earlier thread.

You (or someone else) brought up this Muslim prayer at a military function before and I will repeat what I said then...I have been present at such an event. BCT graduation at Fort Jackson in October 2010. The Chaplin was an Imam and offered a Muslim prayer as the beginning and end of the ceremony. I didn't hear a single murmur. I am not saying it wouldn't happen but that is just my personal experience.

I strongly agree with you about where the hypocrisy would lie in the scenario you describe

Was the balking of prayers on Friday a joke?

Just the immediate paragraph was replying to you...I.e. "If Muslims pray in a combined space when there is a mosque nearby, "there must be an agenda". When Christians do, it's just tradition."

The rest was just general commentary.

Measure Man
01-20-2015, 03:07 PM
Plus if its a chapel, why is IT being allowed to be used for other religions?



If they are 'such a private org', why do they take in so much tax dollars from the govt?

...because they have the largest medical research dept in the country...something the govt finds is a worthwhile thing to invest in. They compete for those grants...and doesn't make them a govt institution.

Duke also gets more business donations for medical research than any other university...does that make them a corporate university?

Not sure what your point is really....if you want Duke to observe separation of church and state because they won some federal grants, I'm okay with that...are you going to insist Christian orgs and universities do the same? How about actual govt institutions?

Rainmaker
01-20-2015, 03:18 PM
The Duke chapel was built to worship Jesus Christ. There's nothing hypocritical about the Alumni expecting it to be used for its stated purpose.

Straight from the Duke University Charter.

"The aims of Duke University are to assert a faith in the eternal union of knowledge and religion set forth in the teachings and character of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; to advance learning in all lines of truth; to defend scholarship against all false notions and ideals; to develop a Christian love of freedom and truth; to promote a sincere spirit of tolerance; to discourage all partisan and sectarian strife; and to render the largest permanent service to the individual, the state, the nation, and the church. Unto these ends shall the affairs of this University always be administered.”

http://library.duke.edu/rubenstein/uarchives/history/articles/charter-bylaws-aims-mission

Muhammadeans should go establish their own private university. Thee Allahu Akbar State University at Dearborn. Surely it would be a pillar of Academic Excellence and tolerance.

TJMAC77SP
01-20-2015, 03:21 PM
Just the immediate paragraph was replying to you...I.e. "If Muslims pray in a combined space when there is a mosque nearby, "there must be an agenda". When Christians do, it's just tradition."

The rest was just general commentary.

If Christians were to attempt to hold services in a mosque when there was a church less than 2 miles away I would say they possibly had an agenda as well and it wouldn't be tradition. Is there a specific incident you are basing your claim on or just your opinion based on your overall opinion of Christians

Rollyn01
01-20-2015, 03:32 PM
Muhammadeans should go establish their own private university. Thee Allahu Akbar State University at Dearborn. Surely it would be a pillar of Academic Excellence and tolerance.


As nice of an idea as that sounds, some idiots would protest against it and then burn it down which would start riots. Of course, most of those idiots would be from the West Borough Baptist Church with signs saying "They're trying to steal our Jesus".

Measure Man
01-20-2015, 04:32 PM
The Duke chapel was built to worship Jesus Christ. There's nothing hypocritical about the Alumni expecting it to be used for its stated purpose.

Straight from the Duke University Charter.

"The aims of Duke University are to assert a faith in the eternal union of knowledge and religion set forth in the teachings and character of Jesus Christ, the Son of God; to advance learning in all lines of truth; to defend scholarship against all false notions and ideals; to develop a Christian love of freedom and truth; to promote a sincere spirit of tolerance; to discourage all partisan and sectarian strife; and to render the largest permanent service to the individual, the state, the nation, and the church. Unto these ends shall the affairs of this University always be administered.”

http://library.duke.edu/rubenstein/uarchives/history/articles/charter-bylaws-aims-mission

Muhammadeans should go establish their own private university. Thee Allahu Akbar State University at Dearborn. Surely it would be a pillar of Academic Excellence and tolerance.

Funny...you link to an article showing your quoted stated purpose is an old one that has since been changed.

Your 'character' has run its course and I'm no longer going to waste my time with people playing characters.

Rainmaker
01-20-2015, 04:52 PM
Funny...you link to an article showing your quoted stated purpose is an old one that has since been changed.

Your 'character' has run its course and I'm no longer going to waste my time with people playing characters.

What ?? the link came off the Duke Website. The chapel was built to worship Jesus Christ. That was the purpose. You disagree??

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Chapel

Along the left wall, the University's benefactors—Washington Duke and his two sons, James B. Duke and Benjamin N. Duke—are entombed in three 30-ton, white Carrara marble sarcophagi carved by Charles Keck. Over the altar are three limewood figures: Jesus stands in the center, with St. Paul on the left and St. Peter on the right. A boss with the Duke family coat of arms graces the ceiling



UMM...That's Jesus Christ in the Center Skippy. Not the "Profit" Mohammed or Karl Marx. Sorry, You got your little secular panties in a bunch But, it's true.

Measure Man
01-20-2015, 04:57 PM
What ?? The chapel was built to worship Jesus Christ. That was the purpose. You disagree?

Was...

Didn't you see the "stated purpose" has changed?


Along the left wall, the University's benefactors—Washington Duke and his two sons, James B. Duke and Benjamin N. Duke—are entombed in three 30-ton, white Carrara marble sarcophagi carved by Charles Keck. Over the altar are three limewood figures: Jesus stands in the center, with St. Paul on the left and St. Peter on the right. A boss with the Duke family coat of arms graces the ceiling

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Chapel

That's Jesus Christ in the Center. Not the Profit Mohammed or Karl Marx. Sorry, You got your little secular panties in a bunch But, it's true.


ahhh...the insult on masculinity....last desperate attempt of a dying troll.

Rainmaker
01-20-2015, 05:07 PM
If Christians were to attempt to hold services in a mosque when there was a church less than 2 miles away I would say they possibly had an agenda as well and it wouldn't be tradition. Is there a specific incident you are basing your claim on or just your opinion based on your overall opinion of Christians

The agenda is to create controversy and destroy American culture.

Many of these humanities professors are professional activists, They have tenure but, they don't add any value to the university. Because, they can't get anything published or conduct any actual research. So, The only way these parasites can justify their existence is through Agitating, and threatening grievances and lawsuits. Actually, They're a lot like Government employees

Rainmaker
01-20-2015, 05:11 PM
Was...

Didn't you see the "stated purpose" has changed?



ahhh...the insult on masculinity....last desperate attempt of a dying troll.

The purpose of the chapel has changed? To what? Secular Humanism, Promoting Diversity? GTFOH with that BS.

By the way, The Rubenstein Library is named after a Jew...

Measure Man
01-20-2015, 05:15 PM
The purpose of the chapel has changed? To what? By the way, The Rubenstein Library is named after a Jew...

I'm too old to play with characters....maybe TJ will indulge you.

You have no credibility here.

Rainmaker
01-20-2015, 05:20 PM
I'm too old to play with characters....maybe TJ will indulge you.

You have no credibility here.

So, then tell us....What's the new, original, stated purpose of the Duke University chapel Genius?

TJMAC77SP
01-20-2015, 06:01 PM
I'm too old to play with characters....maybe TJ will indulge you.

You have no credibility here.

Why is always me people throw into a mix?

Rainmaker
01-20-2015, 06:12 PM
Why is always me people throw into a mix?

He has to bring you into the conversation because his position (that the Duke University Chapel was not built to worship Jesus Christ) is completely nonsensical.

This is what these people always resort to when presented with an obvious truth. Doesn't matter if you present them with the historical documentation of the university charter right off their own website. They can't agree with the message, so they have to attack the messenger.

Suffering fools gladly...It goes with the territory...

Philippians 1:29

Rainmaker
01-20-2015, 06:54 PM
As nice of an idea as that sounds, some idiots would protest against it and then burn it down which would start riots. Of course, most of those idiots would be from the West Borough Baptist Church with signs saying "They're trying to steal our Jesus".

Nah, he's out of the Koran Burning Bidness....That guy is actually running a French Fry stand in an old mostly abandoned mall these days...

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/koran-burning-preachers-pulpit-of-deance-and-chili-cheese-dogs/2015/01/17/c98a79e2-9d9e-11e4-a7ee-526210d665b4_story.html?tid=pm_pop

Measure Man
01-20-2015, 06:57 PM
Why is always me people throw into a mix?

Sorry...just glanced up and you were the last one he tried to goad into his mess.

Rainmaker
01-20-2015, 07:25 PM
Sorry...just glanced up and you were the last one he tried to goad into his mess.

Just making the point that the University Alumni were right to raise Hell about it. Since, The University was Founded as a religious college by Methodists and Quakers..... The original motto was "Eruditio et Religio," meaning "Knowledge and Religion."

It's a pretty safe bet that they didn't intend for the Muslim Adhan chant ( aimed at converting Infidels) to be blasted from the University Bell tower on campus...That's all. Rainmaker Didn't mean to offend your egalitarian sensibilities.

TJMAC77SP
01-20-2015, 09:50 PM
Sorry...just glanced up and you were the last one he tried to goad into his mess.

I got it. I was just kidding.

At least you didn't diss me for my fractured sentence. Who would do that right?

garhkal
01-20-2015, 10:37 PM
MM, I am little confused as to why you quoted my post as most of the last part of your post intimates that I am somehow one of those Christians who balk at the prayer calls and 1. I am not, merely question the true motivation and 2. I am not a very good Christian. I believe that was asserted in an earlier thread.

You (or someone else) brought up this Muslim prayer at a military function before and I will repeat what I said then...I have been present at such an event. BCT graduation at Fort Jackson in October 2010. The Chaplin was an Imam and offered a Muslim prayer as the beginning and end of the ceremony. I didn't hear a single murmur. I am not saying it wouldn't happen but that is just my personal experience.

I strongly agree with you about where the hypocrisy would lie in the scenario you describe

Was the balking of prayers on Friday a joke?

In my 20 years in, i have only seen 2 times, Islamic invocations given at ceremonies. Both were for retiring Muslim troops.


...because they have the largest medical research dept in the country...something the govt finds is a worthwhile thing to invest in. They compete for those grants...and doesn't make them a govt institution.

Duke also gets more business donations for medical research than any other university...does that make them a corporate university?

Not sure what your point is really....if you want Duke to observe separation of church and state because they won some federal grants, I'm okay with that...are you going to insist Christian orgs and universities do the same? How about actual govt institutions?

My point is, there are plenty of people using the fact something is 'government funded, or an "Official government place" due to it say being town or city ran, to justify it being forced to remove various religious articles, whether the 10 commandments, statues/pictures of Jesus or others.
So why is it a place that receives so much federal funding, is considered "Private" in regards to it not having to follow that mantra (Which i disagree with anyway. NO where in the constitution is separation of church and state mentioned).


If Christians were to attempt to hold services in a mosque when there was a church less than 2 miles away I would say they possibly had an agenda as well and it wouldn't be tradition. Is there a specific incident you are basing your claim on or just your opinion based on your overall opinion of Christians

But do you think if Christians did try that, they would even get the school governing body to allow it, like it was done here (before uproar and people saying funding would get withheld caused them to reverse it)?

Measure Man
01-21-2015, 12:17 AM
In my 20 years in, i have only seen 2 times, Islamic invocations given at ceremonies. Both were for retiring Muslim troops.

My point is, there are plenty of people using the fact something is 'government funded, or an "Official government place" due to it say being town or city ran, to justify it being forced to remove various religious articles, whether the 10 commandments, statues/pictures of Jesus or others.
So why is it a place that receives so much federal funding, is considered "Private" in regards to it not having to follow that mantra

Because something that actually IS an "Official Government place" has abide by the limits placed on govt. by the constitution. Something that isn't, doesn't. They are two completely different things...one actually is the government, one isn't. While most, if not all, "official government places" probably have government funding...not everything the government funds becomes a government entity.


(Which i disagree with anyway. NO where in the constitution is separation of church and state mentioned).

So old an tired...can you understand paraphrased...or a shorthand term for the concept?

The exact words are not in there...much like the words "right to privacy" are not in there...or "right to own a handgun"...other words were used to describe the concept.

Want to know some other words never mentioned in the Constitution? God, Jesus, Christian Nation, tradition, Air Force.

Everybody knows that the Constitution does not use the words "separation of Church and State"...everybody knows these particular words were taken from a metaphor used in a letter from Thomas Jefferson when he was explaining the Constitution to the Danbury Baptists. These words continue to be frequently used as shorthand for the concept in the Constitution to which Jefferson was referring to.

Do we really have to post the entire First Amendment verbatim to discuss it?...or can we dismiss all of our rights by saying "nowhere does the Constitution say you have a 'right to a handgun'...nowhere in the Constitution does it say you have a 'right to privacy'...no where in the Constitution does it say you have a 'right to a fair trial'..nowhere in the constitution does it say you have a 'right not to be put in jail arbitrarily'

But, what you mention is a good example of why the separation of church and state is important...because the day is coming that there will be a Muslim dominated town....or small city...and maybe they will want to have the Koran in their court house...and maybe they will want to broadcast the call to prayer for town hall...are you going to say, "well, no where in the constitution does it say there must be separation of church and state"?

Rainmaker
01-21-2015, 03:19 AM
Because something that actually IS an "Official Government place" has abide by the limits placed on govt. by the constitution. Something that isn't, doesn't. They are two completely different things...one actually is the government, one isn't. While most, if not all, "official government places" probably have government funding...not everything the government funds becomes a government entity.



So old an tired...can you understand paraphrased...or a shorthand term for the concept?

The exact words are not in there...much like the words "right to privacy" are not in there...or "right to own a handgun"...other words were used to describe the concept.

Want to know some other words never mentioned in the Constitution? God, Jesus, Christian Nation, tradition, Air Force.
Everybody knows that the Constitution does not use the words "separation of Church and State"...everybody knows these particular words were taken from a metaphor used in a letter from Thomas Jefferson when he was explaining the Constitution to the Danbury Baptists. These words continue to be frequently used as shorthand for the concept in the Constitution to which Jefferson was referring to.

Do we really have to post the entire First Amendment verbatim to discuss it?...or can we dismiss all of our rights by saying "nowhere does the Constitution say you have a 'right to a handgun'...nowhere in the Constitution does it say you have a 'right to privacy'...no where in the Constitution does it say you have a 'right to a fair trial'..nowhere in the constitution does it say you have a 'right not to be put in jail arbitrarily'

But, what you mention is a good example of why the separation of church and state is important...because the day is coming that there will be a Muslim dominated town....or small city...and maybe they will want to have the Koran in their court house...and maybe they will want to broadcast the call to prayer for town hall...are you going to say, "well, no where in the constitution does it say there must be separation of church and state"?

The Constitution was largely based on Anglo-Saxon common law. It was designed as a Republic for a Christian people ( " to ourselves and our posterity"). Since, 98% of the population at the time was Protestant, 2% was Roman Catholic and there were about 2,000 Jews. It's not a reach to say that it presupposed a Christian Citizenry.

However, It's true they were not planning a fundamentalist, evangelical, theocracy that the Neocon Nut jobs (anxiously waiting to be raptured ahead of the apocalypse, while planning for a 1000 year reign of Greater Israel) have been giving us for 25 years.

And guess what other word isn't in the constitution? "Interpretation"..... But, It was working pretty well for 200+ years until these secret worshipers of Lucifer seized control and stacked the Federal court system with corrupted judges that pervert both the spirit of the law and the letter of the law.

You also raise a valid point about a Muslim dominated town, coming soon to a suburb near you. Which begs the obvious question..... why do we continue to import 500K Muslim immigrants (most of whom we know will break the law and overstay their Visa) every year? To what end are they doing this?

TJMAC77SP
01-21-2015, 03:47 AM
In my 20 years in, i have only seen 2 times, Islamic invocations given at ceremonies. Both were for retiring Muslim troops.

Well, in fairness it was more nondenominational. Mentioned almighty God but not Muhammad. Of course didn't invoke Jesus' name either. I know he was Muslim though because I was next to him at the conclusion of the ceremony. I have never met an AF Muslim Chaplain.





But do you think if Christians did try that, they would even get the school governing body to allow it, like it was done here (before uproar and people saying funding would get withheld caused them to reverse it)?

I don't actually see that ever happening. I really can't predict what reaction any party would have.

SomeRandomGuy
01-21-2015, 01:27 PM
I have never met an AF Muslim Chaplain.

This had me curious. Apparantly Muslim chaplains do exist. There is one listed on the Air Force Chaplain recruiter page. It also says the Air Force accepts endorsed and qualified applicants from faith groups that include Roman Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox Christian, Jewish, and Muslim Clergy.

It is interesting that the cutoff seems to be those groups. A long time ago I had a discussion with someone about chaplains. In order to become a chaplain you need to go to an accredited college and recieve a theology degree in a religion the AF accepts. The reason it came up was because I was asking if a wiccan chaplain exists anywhere. The short answer is that you can't get a degree in wiccan studies that the AF would accept.

http://www.airforce.com/chaplain/

Rainmaker
01-21-2015, 02:26 PM
This had me curious. Apparantly Muslim chaplains do exist. There is one listed on the Air Force Chaplain recruiter page. It also says the Air Force accepts endorsed and qualified applicants from faith groups that include Roman Catholic, Protestant, Orthodox Christian, Jewish, and Muslim Clergy.

It is interesting that the cutoff seems to be those groups. A long time ago I had a discussion with someone about chaplains. In order to become a chaplain you need to go to an accredited college and recieve a theology degree in a religion the AF accepts. The reason it came up was because I was asking if a wiccan chaplain exists anywhere. The short answer is that you can't get a degree in wiccan studies that the AF would accept.

http://www.airforce.com/chaplain/

Judging by the looks of that website, It won't be too long. Nice "Culturally Rich + Diverse" chaplain corps. The only thing they're missing is a Flamboyantly Gay, Shaman Witch Doctor..... Can't us taxpayers get just one, token, good ole fashioned, stereotypical, WASP chaplain on the page? Or is that now verboten here in Obama's Oceania?

garhkal
01-21-2015, 09:21 PM
Because something that actually IS an "Official Government place" has abide by the limits placed on govt. by the constitution. Something that isn't, doesn't. They are two completely different things...one actually is the government, one isn't. While most, if not all, "official government places" probably have government funding...not everything the government funds becomes a government entity.



So old an tired...can you understand paraphrased...or a shorthand term for the concept?

The exact words are not in there...much like the words "right to privacy" are not in there...or "right to own a handgun"...other words were used to describe the concept.

Want to know some other words never mentioned in the Constitution? God, Jesus, Christian Nation, tradition, Air Force.

Everybody knows that the Constitution does not use the words "separation of Church and State"...everybody knows these particular words were taken from a metaphor used in a letter from Thomas Jefferson when he was explaining the Constitution to the Danbury Baptists. These words continue to be frequently used as shorthand for the concept in the Constitution to which Jefferson was referring to.

Do we really have to post the entire First Amendment verbatim to discuss it?...or can we dismiss all of our rights by saying "nowhere does the Constitution say you have a 'right to a handgun'...nowhere in the Constitution does it say you have a 'right to privacy'...no where in the Constitution does it say you have a 'right to a fair trial'..nowhere in the constitution does it say you have a 'right not to be put in jail arbitrarily'

But, what you mention is a good example of why the separation of church and state is important...because the day is coming that there will be a Muslim dominated town....or small city...and maybe they will want to have the Koran in their court house...and maybe they will want to broadcast the call to prayer for town hall...are you going to say, "well, no where in the constitution does it say there must be separation of church and state"?

You was making a great counter argument right up to those last 2 paragraphs.
The 1st amendment says that "prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion". So, how is say a court house having the 10 commandments (a center for how and where our laws came from), the govt establishing a religion?
Or say the Marine corp Rifleman's creed, having it in the last paragraph of the creed, "Before god i swear this creed", establishing a religion?

That's where i see the "fallacy" in a lot of these arguments.

Measure Man
01-21-2015, 09:35 PM
You was making a great counter argument right up to those last 2 paragraphs.
The 1st amendment says that "prohibits the making of any law respecting an establishment of religion". So, how is say a court house having the 10 commandments (a center for how and where our laws came from), the govt establishing a religion?
Or say the Marine corp Rifleman's creed, having it in the last paragraph of the creed, "Before god i swear this creed", establishing a religion?

That's where i see the "fallacy" in a lot of these arguments.

I didn't invent the phrase 'wall of separation between church and state' ...Jefferson did, a concept that has been upheld on many occasions by many courts....so you can disagree with it, just please don't say it doesn't exist in the Constitution. Just admit you don't agree with the Constitution on that point. If you wish the founders had created a Christian Nation instead of the one they did, just say so.

Even more enlightening as to what was in the founders minds on the 1st Amendment, read what James Madison had to say on the matter...you know his role in the Constitution I expect. I'm on a tablet or I would quote some for you

We should be happy our laws don't come from the 10 commandments...or you would be punished for stuff your Grandpa did...

Rainmaker
01-22-2015, 03:32 AM
The way Coach Wallace explained it to Rainmaker in Allegany Public School Civics class circa 1986 was like this....
The United States (i.e The State) operates under a secular civil constitution.
American Society (i.e The Nation) is obviously majority Christian.
Of course none of this matters because, the Congress outsourced the power to coin money to the unconstitutional private global,banking cartel. They operate under the golden rule. that he who has the gold makes the rules. Usury is not a Christian Value.

garhkal
01-22-2015, 04:39 AM
I didn't invent the phrase 'wall of separation between church and state' ...Jefferson did, a concept that has been upheld on many occasions by many courts....so you can disagree with it, just please don't say it doesn't exist in the Constitution. Just admit you don't agree with the Constitution on that point. If you wish the founders had created a Christian Nation instead of the one they did, just say so.

I am an Agnostic, so care not if they had made it a Christian nation, but that Jefferson did mention he felt there should be separation between church and state AFTER the Constitution was wrote, being considered part of it where i have issues. Its like if i penned my will, but later on mentioned that "i really should have had XYZ in it" doesn't make it so.

Measure Man
01-22-2015, 05:25 AM
I am an Agnostic, so care not if they had made it a Christian nation, but that Jefferson did mention he felt there should be separation between church and state AFTER the Constitution was wrote, being considered part of it where i have issues. Its like if i penned my will, but later on mentioned that "i really should have had XYZ in it" doesn't make it so.

...poor analogy. Jefferson wasn't wishing the Constitution said something else...he was explaining it's practical application using a metaphor.

More like you said.. "x-ray, yankee, zebra" in your will

...someone asks, "what exactly does that mean?"

You say, "it means 'XYZ'"

sandsjames
01-22-2015, 01:02 PM
I personally think people look way too hard at this, from all sides. What I've always taken from it is that the U.S. government can not force a specific religion, or have a "State religion", as England did at the time. I really don't think they cared what symbols people wore or what statues were out in front of government buildings. It means that if someone wants to wear a turbin to work (and it meets the safety/dress standards) then the employer can't say "no" due to personal beliefs. It means that people can display whatever they want (without intent to incite violence). Nowhere does it state that certain things should not be displayed.

Rainmaker
01-22-2015, 04:55 PM
By the President of the United States of America, a Proclamation.

Whereas it is the duty of all Nations to acknowledge the providence of Almighty God, to obey his will, to be grateful for his benefits, and humbly to implore his protection and favor-- and whereas both Houses of Congress have by their joint Committee requested me to recommend to the People of the United States a day of public thanksgiving and prayer to be observed by acknowledging with grateful hearts the many signal favors of Almighty God especially by affording them an opportunity peaceably to establish a form of government for their safety and happiness.

Now therefore I do recommend and assign Thursday the 26th day of November next to be devoted by the People of these States to the service of that great and glorious Being, who is the beneficent Author of all the good that was, that is, or that will be-- That we may then all unite in rendering unto him our sincere and humble thanks--for his kind care and protection of the People of this Country previous to their becoming a Nation--for the signal and manifold mercies, and the favorable interpositions of his Providence which we experienced in the course and conclusion of the late war--for the great degree of tranquility, union, and plenty, which we have since enjoyed--for the peaceable and rational manner, in which we have been enabled to establish constitutions of government for our safety and happiness, and particularly the national One now lately instituted--for the civil and religious liberty with which we are blessed; and the means we have of acquiring and diffusing useful knowledge; and in general for all the great and various favors which he hath been pleased to confer upon us.

and also that we may then unite in most humbly offering our prayers and supplications to the great Lord and Ruler of Nations and beseech him to pardon our national and other transgressions-- to enable us all, whether in public or private stations, to perform our several and relative duties properly and punctually--to render our national government a blessing to all the people, by constantly being a Government of wise, just, and constitutional laws, discreetly and faithfully executed and obeyed--to protect and guide all Sovereigns and Nations (especially such as have shewn kindness unto us) and to bless them with good government, peace, and concord--To promote the knowledge and practice of true religion and virtue, and the encrease of science among them and us--and generally to grant unto all Mankind such a degree of temporal prosperity as he alone knows to be best.

Given under my hand at the City of New York the third day of October in the year of our Lord 1789

HMFIC- George Washington.

http://lcweb2.loc.gov/ammem/GW/gw004.html