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technomage1
12-18-2014, 12:18 AM
Some base/units are worse about this than others, but I've been noticing a trend over the last couple of years in calls (especially if you have a cell phone) while on leave. I certainly understand emergency situations, but the unit trying to set up my annual dental exam, asking where such as such EPR is (when it's plainly showed in the system) can all easily wait until I get back from the day or two I usually take at a time. Leave is a time to unwind. That's hard to do when they expect you to use your personal phone as a standby device & get irritated if you don't answer or call back right away. Also - you can tell when I'll be back easily from my leave paperwork, the sign out board, and/or my out of office editor reply.

I also wish the clinic would let you opt out of their nuisance calls (appointment reminders and satisfaction surveys).

Things I do want to be called about: a troop of mine in the hospital or jail. National emergencies. Weather related emergencies. Medical test results. There may be a few other categories, but mostly it can wait.

Oh, and for the love of whatever you consider holy, do NOT write in your base supplement to AFI that local leaves will be called in a practice recall. Real world, sure. Got it. But exercises or practices, leave me alone. The guilty base(s?) knows who they are.

I'm not a shirt, Chief, standby guy, etc. I am replaceable and I did take care of it 9/10 times before I went on leave so I wouldn't be bothered while on leave. That goes with being a responsible adult.

I'm not going to give anyone but my subordinates my number at my next base. The recall roster isn't getting it, the clinic isn't getting it, and it's not going on my leave form. It's been abused too much.

sandsjames
12-18-2014, 11:39 AM
Some base/units are worse about this than others, but I've been noticing a trend over the last couple of years in calls (especially if you have a cell phone) while on leave. I certainly understand emergency situations, but the unit trying to set up my annual dental exam, asking where such as such EPR is (when it's plainly showed in the system) can all easily wait until I get back from the day or two I usually take at a time. Leave is a time to unwind. That's hard to do when they expect you to use your personal phone as a standby device & get irritated if you don't answer or call back right away. Also - you can tell when I'll be back easily from my leave paperwork, the sign out board, and/or my out of office editor reply.

I also wish the clinic would let you opt out of their nuisance calls (appointment reminders and satisfaction surveys).

Things I do want to be called about: a troop of mine in the hospital or jail. National emergencies. Weather related emergencies. Medical test results. There may be a few other categories, but mostly it can wait.

Oh, and for the love of whatever you consider holy, do NOT write in your base supplement to AFI that local leaves will be called in a practice recall. Real world, sure. Got it. But exercises or practices, leave me alone. The guilty base(s?) knows who they are.

I'm not a shirt, Chief, standby guy, etc. I am replaceable and I did take care of it 9/10 times before I went on leave so I wouldn't be bothered while on leave. That goes with being a responsible adult.

I'm not going to give anyone but my subordinates my number at my next base. The recall roster isn't getting it, the clinic isn't getting it, and it's not going on my leave form. It's been abused too much.

Great point, but you're in the military. You're a 24/7 "standby" guy, whether on leave or not. What if there is a Squadron BBQ going on and they need your burger recipe? What if there is an impromptu mock PT test and they need everyone there? It's about responsibility. Quit whining, get outside and do some sprints.

Rusty Jones
12-18-2014, 12:15 PM
Sounds like a legit gripe to me. I think that the "you're in the military 24/7" card gets played too much, and things that should be a last resort are used as a first resort just because. Another example is working more than 40 hours a week when stateside. Yes, you're in the military and should be ready to do so when called upon, but it shouldn't be the norm.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-18-2014, 12:59 PM
Sounds like a legit gripe to me. I think that the "you're in the military 24/7" card gets played too much, and things that should be a last resort are used as a first resort just because. Another example is working more than 40 hours a week when stateside. Yes, you're in the military and should be ready to do so when called upon, but it shouldn't be the norm.

You are in the Air Force now! You damned well better pack that snivel in your seabag and stow it in the attic.

I have no respect for anyone that doesn't have enough common sense to anticipate these types of calls before going on leave.

Most of those questions about EPRs and staus updates can be easily deflected with a little advanced planning.

Besides, when they do call you in for something dumb, it shouldn't be looked at as an annoyance, but as a chance to flaunt how important you are to the squadron.

Only amateurs whine about getting called in from leave, true professionals see it as an opportunity to excel.

Rusty Jones
12-18-2014, 01:30 PM
You are in the Air Force now! You damned well better pack that snivel in your seabag and stow it in the attic.

I have no respect for anyone that doesn't have enough common sense to anticipate these types of calls before going on leave.

Most of those questions about EPRs and staus updates can be easily deflected with a little advanced planning.

Besides, when they do call you in for something dumb, it shouldn't be looked at as an annoyance, but as a chance to flaunt how important you are to the squadron.

Only amateurs whine about getting called in from leave, true professionals see it as an opportunity to excel.

Airman of Darkness, is that you?

Mata Leao
12-18-2014, 01:31 PM
I agree, leave me alone while on leave. If I ever got a call while on leave, if they didn't leave a message I didn't call back. If they message said "give me a call when you get a chance", the chance comes when I return. If the message was for something specific, I would access how important it was and usually wait until I returned.

Cell phones really screwed up staying away while on leave. Before cell phones I would have just said I stayed somewhere other than the number given. I don't recall that ever coming up though, but I had answers/excuses ready. When I got a cell phone, my answer became I didn't have a signal.

Rollyn01
12-18-2014, 01:56 PM
I agree, leave me alone while on leave. If I ever got a call while on leave, if they didn't leave a message I didn't call back. If they message said "give me a call when you get a chance", the chance comes when I return. If the message was for something specific, I would access how important it was and usually wait until I returned.

Cell phones really screwed up staying away while on leave. Before cell phones I would have just said I stayed somewhere other than the number given. I don't recall that ever coming up though, but I had answers/excuses ready. When I got a cell phone, my answer became I didn't have a signal.

"Hello? Hello? I can't...I can't hear you. Hello? What? Speak up, I can barely hear you... coming in broken... Hello?" Click!! Oh well. I tried. Now where did that stripper go?

sandsjames
12-18-2014, 01:59 PM
This is a conversation we've had on here several times. It's easier to just not have a cell phone but, if you do, it's easy enough to not answer the phone, unless on telephone standby. If your conscience gets the better of you and you feel the need to answer the phone, that's on you.

SomeRandomGuy
12-18-2014, 02:03 PM
Sounds like a legit gripe to me. I think that the "you're in the military 24/7" card gets played too much, and things that should be a last resort are used as a first resort just because. Another example is working more than 40 hours a week when stateside. Yes, you're in the military and should be ready to do so when called upon, but it shouldn't be the norm.

I have always wondered why this (bolded) doesn't work the other way as well. If something comes up the first words out of leadership's mouth is "you are in the military, you are on the clock 24/7". What happens though when things are a bit slow and I cut a few of my guys lose at 1400. Next thing you know here comes the boss. Where did everyone go? I guess I should just respond, "They are in the military they are on the clock 24/7"

I mean seriously, what is with the obsession with the 730-1630 duty day? I get that it matters with Law Enforcement, Customer Service and other jobs where someone needs to be there in case something comes up. With other jobs I don't get it. If the work is done for the day cut everyone lose. We aren't getting paid by the hour.

Mata Leao
12-18-2014, 02:25 PM
I have always wondered why this (bolded) doesn't work the other way as well. If something comes up the first words out of leadership's mouth is "you are in the military, you are on the clock 24/7". What happens though when things are a bit slow and I cut a few of my guys lose at 1400. Next thing you know here comes the boss. Where did everyone go? I guess I should just respond, "They are in the military they are on the clock 24/7"

I mean seriously, what is with the obsession with the 730-1630 duty day? I get that it matters with Law Enforcement, Customer Service and other jobs where someone needs to be there in case something comes up. With other jobs I don't get it. If the work is done for the day cut everyone lose. We aren't getting paid by the hour.

Along those same lines, I've never understood or been one of those people who stay late just in case something happens. If my hours are 0730-1630, but you expect me to stay intil 1700 or 1800, make my hours 0700 to 1800. For the record, I always came in at around 0600, so me leaving at 1600ish still give me the same hours as the over-achievers, I just wasn't seen by leadership as staying late.
When I first got to Kunsan in 2011, about my 2nd friday there I shut down at 1600. walking home some felt like they were doing something wrong.

I guess my superior time management skills kept me from being considered for higher ranks.

Rusty Jones
12-18-2014, 02:34 PM
Along those same lines, I've never understood or been one of those people who stay late just in case something happens. If my hours are 0730-1630, but you expect me to stay intil 1700 or 1800, make my hours 0700 to 1800. For the record, I always came in at around 0600, so me leaving at 1600ish still give me the same hours as the over-achievers, I just wasn't seen by leadership as staying late.
When I first got to Kunsan in 2011, about my 2nd friday there I shut down at 1600. walking home some felt like they were doing something wrong.

I guess my superior time management skills kept me from being considered for higher ranks.

Perception is everything. And I'm not joking when I say this. You're going to see this happen with the Air Force's new EPR system. It's less about the quality or quantity of your work, and more about how good you look doing it and how much attention you can draw to it. Your work can be shit, but if your gift of gab is big enough to convince your chain of command that your shit is gold, you'll get your 5.

The guys who put in 15-hour days, but only do one hour's worth of work the whole time? They'll look better than the guys who do eight hours worth of work in eight hours.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-18-2014, 02:51 PM
This is a conversation we've had on here several times. It's easier to just not have a cell phone but, if you do, it's easy enough to not answer the phone, unless on telephone standby. If your conscience gets the better of you and you feel the need to answer the phone, that's on you.

I remember this conversation too, seems to me that it was also started by Techno. I think last time it was, "leadership can't force me to have a phone if I live off-base at Osan."

Seriously, this is whiny nonsense at best. What is the big deal about answering the phone and talking to your shop for a few minutes?

If a person doesn't have enough of a talking game to handle a few questions, the solution would be to improve your power of persuasion. I'm confident that I can persuade whoever calls me that I don't need to come in from leave.

Worst case scenario if I do come in, I'm walking back out with a big favor in my pocket.


The solution is not crying that leave should mean "leave me alone."

The solution is being a professional who takes care of business. You've got a lot of options when you pick up that phone, you can make them feel guilty about calling, you can make them feel like a dumbass, or you can refer them to one of your troops.

Your first move should be to refer them to the person that is covering for you. Crap, any good NCO would have one of their troops sitting in their seat the whole time they are gone.

This really isn't an issue if you've got a set of balls, and are bringing your troops up in a manner that they know how to keep the shop running when you are away.

Rusty Jones
12-18-2014, 02:58 PM
I remember this conversation too, seems to me that it was also started by Techno. I think last time it was, "leadership can't force me to have a phone if I live off-base at Osan."

Seriously, this is whiny nonsense at best. What is the big deal about answering the phone and talking to your shop for a few minutes?

If a person doesn't have enough of a talking game to handle a few questions, the solution would be to improve your power of persuasion. I'm confident that I can persuade whoever calls me that I don't need to come in from leave.

Worst case scenario if I do come in, I'm walking back out with a big favor in my pocket.


The solution is not crying that leave should mean "leave me alone."

The solution is being a professional who takes care of business. You've got a lot of options when you pick up that phone, you can make them feel guilty about calling, you can make them feel like a dumbass, or you can refer them to one of your troops.

Your first move should be to refer them to the person that is covering for you. Crap, any good NCO would have one of their troops sitting in their seat the whole time they are gone.

This really isn't an issue if you've got a set of balls, and are bringing your troops up in a manner that they know how to keep the shop running when you are away.

Or... you could always act like you're an idiot who doesn't know anything, and then no will call you. I've been to five different commands during my time in the Navy, and I've done that at two of them.

Mata Leao
12-18-2014, 03:09 PM
Perception is everything. And I'm not joking when I say this. You're going to see this happen with the Air Force's new EPR system. It's less about the quality or quantity of your work, and more about how good you look doing it and how much attention you can draw to it. Your work can be shit, but if your gift of gab is big enough to convince your chain of command that your shit is gold, you'll get your 5.

The guys who put in 15-hour days, but only do one hour's worth of work the whole time? They'll look better than the guys who do eight hours worth of work in eight hours.

I'm retired so EPR's and extra hours no longer mean anything to me. If I ever supervise military again, then I will care. For now, I will just do what the GS15 I work for tells me to do.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-18-2014, 03:14 PM
Or... you could always act like you're an idiot who doesn't know anything, and then no will call you. I've been to five different commands during my time in the Navy, and I've done that at two of them.

Indeed, the options are nearly endless.

As far as whining about the dental clinic calling to remind you of appointments, that isn't much of a fucking problem in my world.

A person who complains about appointment reminders, is a person that cries when the barista at Starbucks doesn't draw a smiley face in the foam of their grande hazelnut macchiato.

Fucking crybabies.

Measure Man
12-18-2014, 03:58 PM
It's never bothered me to get a call from work. Even when I'm on leave, I want my unit to be successful, and if me answering a quick question while away can help them do that, I'm all for it.

Rusty Jones
12-18-2014, 04:03 PM
It's never bothered me to get a call from work. Even when I'm on leave, I want my unit to be successful, and if me answering a quick question while away can help them do that, I'm all for it.

I saw it as a small annoyance when it happened, but nothing worth starting a thread over.

I do worry that for some... they see it as more than just a small annoyance. Maybe the people who speak the loudest about this are constant fuck-ups, and they're scared shitless that a phone call from work could mean that a BIG fuck-up on their part was discovered.

sandsjames
12-18-2014, 04:06 PM
It's never bothered me to get a call from work. Even when I'm on leave, I want my unit to be successful, and if me answering a quick question while away can help them do that, I'm all for it.

Do you think it makes them successful in the long run? When you leave, they are going to have to ask someone else those questions.

To me it falls into the category of people thinking one person is irreplaceable. If the leaders train their troops right then the troops who are still there should be able to handle any questions. Of course in the case of a Commander or Shirt there isn't really a "back up" but at the shop level I can't see a reason to contact someone on leave unless everyone else is incompetent.

Measure Man
12-18-2014, 06:22 PM
Do you think it makes them successful in the long run? When you leave, they are going to have to ask someone else those questions.

Yes. I actually do things at work. When I leave, they will get someone else to do things...but, while I'm on leave they do not.


To me it falls into the category of people thinking one person is irreplaceable.

Not irreplaceable...but when someone is just on vacation, there is not always overlap on anything. We're not manned that way anymore. A lot of people are in one-deep positions.


If the leaders train their troops right then the troops who are still there should be able to handle any questions. Of course in the case of a Commander or Shirt there isn't really a "back up" but at the shop level I can't see a reason to contact someone on leave unless everyone else is incompetent.

Maybe you don't know everything about every shop.

sandsjames
12-18-2014, 06:26 PM
Yes. I actually do things at work. When I leave, they will get someone else to do things...but, while I'm on leave they do not.



Not irreplaceable...but when someone is just on vacation, there is not always overlap on anything. We're not manned that way anymore. A lot of people are in one-deep positions.



Maybe you don't know everything about every shop.

Of course one deep shops are a different story. But my point is applying to the "average" shop with a structure from NCOIC down to Amn. Unless it's personal information needed then the need to contact someone on leave, other than an emergency (a real one, not an imagined one) should never be necessary.

LogDog
12-18-2014, 06:39 PM
Some base/units are worse about this than others, but I've been noticing a trend over the last couple of years in calls (especially if you have a cell phone) while on leave. I certainly understand emergency situations, but the unit trying to set up my annual dental exam, asking where such as such EPR is (when it's plainly showed in the system) can all easily wait until I get back from the day or two I usually take at a time. Leave is a time to unwind. That's hard to do when they expect you to use your personal phone as a standby device & get irritated if you don't answer or call back right away. Also - you can tell when I'll be back easily from my leave paperwork, the sign out board, and/or my out of office editor reply.

I also wish the clinic would let you opt out of their nuisance calls (appointment reminders and satisfaction surveys).

Things I do want to be called about: a troop of mine in the hospital or jail. National emergencies. Weather related emergencies. Medical test results. There may be a few other categories, but mostly it can wait.

Oh, and for the love of whatever you consider holy, do NOT write in your base supplement to AFI that local leaves will be called in a practice recall. Real world, sure. Got it. But exercises or practices, leave me alone. The guilty base(s?) knows who they are.

I'm not a shirt, Chief, standby guy, etc. I am replaceable and I did take care of it 9/10 times before I went on leave so I wouldn't be bothered while on leave. That goes with being a responsible adult.

I'm not going to give anyone but my subordinates my number at my next base. The recall roster isn't getting it, the clinic isn't getting it, and it's not going on my leave form. It's been abused too much.
I didn't have a problem with the dental clinic or hospital/clinic calling me to remind me of my appointment. I knew I'd be on leave when the appointment was made so I don't see it being as big of a deal.

As for getting calls about routine business, there's an easy way around that. Get a list of the telephone numbers of those you think will be calling you while you're on leave. Instead of answering your phone let your answering machine or voice mail take the call. Then call the person back in the evening and tell them you just got their message and ask them what they need. If they don't want to take your phone calls after duty hours tell them how you feel about taking non-emergency calls while you're on leave.

Measure Man
12-18-2014, 06:50 PM
Of course one deep shops are a different story.

Even in shops with multiple people nowadays, many of the positions are one-deep.


But my point is applying to the "average" shop with a structure from NCOIC down to Amn. Unless it's personal information needed then the need to contact someone on leave, other than an emergency (a real one, not an imagined one) should never be necessary.

I reject your sweeping generalization.

Even in an average shop with all the same AFSC...often people do different things, or they happened to be the one working a particular project or problem. Maybe they have an additional duty, while there is an alternate, he wasn't in on the conversation you had last week...whatever.

I don't know what the big deal is. Only speaking for myself of course...it has never bothered me to be called on leave. It doesn't even have to be an emergency...if my coworkers day would be made a lot easier if he just knew where the report from last month was located...give me a call, I'll be happy to let you know.

Is it "necessary"...maybe not, maybe it could wait a week...I'm just saying, I really don't mind at all.

Rollyn01
12-18-2014, 09:20 PM
As for getting calls about routine business, there's an easy way around that. Get a list of the telephone numbers of those you think will be calling you while you're on leave. Instead of answering your phone let your answering machine or voice mail take the call. Then call the person back in the evening and tell them you just got their message and ask them what they need. If they don't want to take your phone calls after duty hours tell them how you feel about taking non-emergency calls while you're on leave.

That actually sounds like a good idea. The only problem I see about it is dealing with them when you get back. If you're not the right rank, you may have just screwed yourself.

LogDog
12-18-2014, 10:07 PM
That actually sounds like a good idea. The only problem I see about it is dealing with them when you get back. If you're not the right rank, you may have just screwed yourself.
I can see your point and I wouldn't suggest doing it if it's your commander or someone senior in your organization. Most of the time it's probably someone in your shop calling you. If they complain about what you did then all you have to do is bring up the reason why they called you in the first place and wonder why they couldn't have taken the initiative to take care of the problem. If it was about EPRs, dec.award packages, or something that could wait then the shop should have told whomever was requesting the information that you'd take care of it when you returned.

The only time I recall being called while on leave was while I was at Bitburg AB. Our shop was merging with our counterparts at another base Spangdahlem AB and we'd be operating out of two locations and I was to head the merger of our computer system and personnel. Command was to make the decision where the main support for both shops would be and neither shop was supposed to "campaign" with Command. It turned out the Capt. at the other base sent an email to Command tell about the problems our base was having, which wasn't true, and our Capt. got a hold of the email. That's when he called me in to review the email and figure out what to do about it. That, IMO, was justified for calling me while on leave.

Rollyn01
12-18-2014, 11:08 PM
I can see your point and I wouldn't suggest doing it if it's your commander or someone senior in your organization. Most of the time it's probably someone in your shop calling you. If they complain about what you did then all you have to do is bring up the reason why they called you in the first place and wonder why they couldn't have taken the initiative to take care of the problem. If it was about EPRs, dec.award packages, or something that could wait then the shop should have told whomever was requesting the information that you'd take care of it when you returned.

The only time I recall being called while on leave was while I was at Bitburg AB. Our shop was merging with our counterparts at another base Spangdahlem AB and we'd be operating out of two locations and I was to head the merger of our computer system and personnel. Command was to make the decision where the main support for both shops would be and neither shop was supposed to "campaign" with Command. It turned out the Capt. at the other base sent an email to Command tell about the problems our base was having, which wasn't true, and our Capt. got a hold of the email. That's when he called me in to review the email and figure out what to do about it. That, IMO, was justified for calling me while on leave.

I agree that a situation like that shouldn't be something you hold off. Very likely ignoring something like that would have resulted in a lot more bullshit that you'd have to work out and that's assuming that you have the chance to correct the issues and calamity that follows.

With that said, I think many people's gripe about it is that if they approve you for leave, that means you're off duty till you get back. If it's not important for your commander to know about it, then they shouldn't really be calling you. If however, the commander is the incompetent asshole that likes to let bullshit roll down hill because it's less effort on his/hers part, then it's up to you're first line to cover down on that. And if your first line is like your commander, is actually afraid of him/her (which should never be the case in any shop) or actually "loves" your commander, it would be more prudent to ask for a change in post.

technomage1
12-18-2014, 11:50 PM
The calls are not coming from my subordinates. They're trained to handle the job and do so well. They're coming from other sections that I don't have control over.

I work my butt off at work. My off time is mine. Don't call someone's personal number while they're on leave for routine questions that can wait. I can schedule that dental when I return. If you want to know the status of such and such - look on the tracker or your inbox. You'll note that it was completed prior to my departure. That's taking care of business. The problem is apparently not everyone does this, so they assume no one does and they panic.

Call it whining if you want. For me it is an issue. I'd never call anyone on leave unless it was an emergency. I don't understand why some people think it's acceptable.

technomage1
12-19-2014, 12:03 AM
Along those same lines, I've never understood or been one of those people who stay late just in case something happens. If my hours are 0730-1630, but you expect me to stay intil 1700 or 1800, make my hours 0700 to 1800. For the record, I always came in at around 0600, so me leaving at 1600ish still give me the same hours as the over-achievers, I just wasn't seen by leadership as staying late.
When I first got to Kunsan in 2011, about my 2nd friday there I shut down at 1600. walking home some felt like they were doing something wrong.

I guess my superior time management skills kept me from being considered for higher ranks.

Yep. I got pinged at a base when I'd come in at 0500 and leave at 1600, and work through lunch. Others would stay until 1700. I was working 2 more hours per day than they were, yet the "perception" was I was a slacker. Forget reality.

Stalwart
12-19-2014, 01:10 AM
A couple of interesting points in this thread:

1. Everyone is replaceable:


To me it falls into the category of people thinking one person is irreplaceable. If the leaders train their troops right then the troops who are still there should be able to handle any questions. Of course in the case of a Commander or Shirt there isn't really a "back up" but at the shop level I can't see a reason to contact someone on leave unless everyone else is incompetent.

In the Navy & USMC, when the CO goes on leave, TAD etc. the XO is the Acting CO, and can do, approve etc. almost everything the CO can do.

2. Cell phones: everyone expects to be able to get a hold of anyone, at any time. We are in the age of instant access to information and people. I didn't own a cell phone until I got stationed in DC (my 4th Navy duty station -- 2012.) ENS Stalwart checking into his first Navy station (2003) was asked for his cell #, and I said I didn't have one. The conversation with the Department Head went something like:

DH: You have to get a cell phone.
Me: No, I don't.
DH: How do we get a hold of you if you aren't here?
Me: Call my house.
DH: What if you aren't there?
Me: Leave a message on the machine.
DH: But you won't get it right away.
Me: I will call you as soon as I get it.
DH: Well, you need to get a cell phone.
Me: Sir, if the command deems me important enough to be on that short of a tether, they need to provide a phone or a beeper.

I never got a cell phone.

3. Recalling people from leave: It should be avoided at all costs, but if you have to ... cancel their leave ... which at every command I have been at takes the CO to do. I have had to call in people from leave exactly twice and the reason I go through the pain & embarrassment of officially cancelling their leave is to not charge them that day of leave and then the CO knows that they have been inconvenienced and that the section, division, department etc. needs to refine their procedures. One of these two times it was because of access to a dual combo safe (alpha and bravo) and only 2 people in the command had each combo (a back-up for each side). Well, while one person was on leave, the other person with the same combo was hospitalized ... we had no way to get in the safe without that person coming in -- unless we torched the lock on the safe. If the person on leave had not been local ... I would have just approved the torching. He was in the local area & I called to explain. I talked to the CO to cancel his leave, redid the leave paperwork and I walked it through to get it reapproved. I also gave him a 72-hour liberty when he came back off leave. I know other departments on the ship that didn't do things that way & personally I think it was reflected in the morale & performance of their folks.

4. Everyone has their own personal 'give a shit' level. Some people don't mind the call when on leave or liberty to solve an issue. Some do and that is their prerogative. Some people have different levels of responsibility and as you get more senior and generally more responsible for the success of your unit the phone calls while “off the clock” aren’t as big a deal as they used to be.

Bottom line: Leave is different than liberty (after hours, weekends etc), it is an earned benefit just like base pay; we don't randomly withhold pay from people, and messing with leave should be painful for those doing the messing.

sandsjames
12-19-2014, 01:18 AM
A couple of interesting points in this thread:

1. Everyone is replaceable:



In the Navy & USMC, when the CO goes on leave, TAD etc. the XO is the Acting CO, and can do, approve etc. almost everything the CO can do.

2. Cell phones: everyone expects to be able to get a hold of anyone, at any time. We are in the age of instant access to information and people. I didn't own a cell phone until I got stationed in DC (my 4th Navy duty station -- 2012.) ENS Stalwart checking into his first Navy station (2003) was asked for his cell #, and I said I didn't have one. The conversation with the Department Head went something like:

DH: You have to get a cell phone.
Me: No, I don't.
DH: How do we get a hold of you if you aren't here?
Me: Call my house.
DH: What if you aren't there?
Me: Leave a message on the machine.
DH: But you won't get it right away.
Me: I will call you as soon as I get it.
DH: Well, you need to get a cell phone.
Me: Sir, if the command deems me important enough to be on that short of a tether, they need to provide a phone or a beeper.

I never got a cell phone.

3. Recalling people from leave: It should be avoided at all costs, but if you have to ... cancel their leave ... which at every command I have been at takes the CO to do. I have had to call in people from leave exactly twice and the reason I go through the pain & embarrassment of officially cancelling their leave is to not charge them that day of leave and then the CO knows that they have been inconvenienced and that the section, division, department etc. needs to refine their procedures. One of these two times it was because of access to a dual combo safe (alpha and bravo) and only 2 people in the command had each combo (a back-up for each side). Well, while one person was on leave, the other person with the same combo was hospitalized ... we had no way to get in the safe without that person coming in -- unless we torched the lock on the safe. If the person on leave had not been local ... I would have just approved the torching. He was in the local area & I called to explain. I talked to the CO to cancel his leave, redid the leave paperwork and I walked it through to get it reapproved. I also gave him a 72-hour liberty when he came back off leave. I know other departments on the ship that didn't do things that way & personally I think it was reflected in the morale & performance of their folks.

4. Everyone has their own personal 'give a shit' level. Some people don't mind the call when on leave or liberty to solve an issue. Some do and that is their prerogative. Some people have different levels of responsibility and as you get more senior and generally more responsible for the success of your unit the phone calls while “off the clock” aren’t as big a deal as they used to be.

Bottom line: Leave is different than liberty (after hours, weekends etc), it is an earned benefit just like base pay; we don't randomly withhold pay from people, and messing with leave should be painful for those doing the messing.

Like...like...like.

What Sheppard AFB now does is post everything to their Facebook page. All important messages (late reporting due to weather, etc). So now, not only are people expected to have a Facebook account, they are expected to check last thing before they go to bed and first thing when they wake up.

LogDog
12-19-2014, 02:59 AM
Like...like...like.

What Sheppard AFB now does is post everything to their Facebook page. All important messages (late reporting due to weather, etc). So now, not only are people expected to have a Facebook account, they are expected to check last thing before they go to bed and first thing when they wake up.
You're kidding, right?

Stalwart
12-19-2014, 03:58 AM
Like...like...like

Thanks .... thanks ... thanks.


What Sheppard AFB now does is post everything to their Facebook page. All important messages (late reporting due to weather, etc). So now, not only are people expected to have a Facebook account, they are expected to check last thing before they go to bed and first thing when they wake up.

Leadership by Facebook. On one hand not a bad idea. It is a quick & easy way for people to 'pull' information from the command -- sort of like watching the news in the monrings when it snows for school closures. On the other hand, there is no way to ensure people are getting the information -- I would hope any information of real significance is passed in a more formal / official way than a Facebook message.

sandsjames
12-19-2014, 11:20 AM
You're kidding, right?Not kidding at all. It hasn't been officially briefed by the base that we need to keep an eye on the page put we had 2 different people get counseled (at squadron level) after there was an "active shooter" incident (which was actually a contractor jack hammering/drilling on base and someone panicked).

Absinthe Anecdote
12-19-2014, 11:44 AM
Not kidding at all. It hasn't been officially briefed by the base that we need to keep an eye on the page put we had 2 different people get counseled (at squadron level) after there was an "active shooter" incident (which was actually a contractor jack hammering/drilling on base and someone panicked).

What happened?

Did someone from your squadron put unsubstantiated information about a active shooter on the unit FB page?

That is just crazy, and I have hard time believing that the PR section at wing-level is cool with group-level and below using social media to communicate any message to the world without routing it through them first.

sandsjames
12-19-2014, 12:58 PM
What happened?

Did someone from your squadron put unsubstantiated information about a active shooter on the unit FB page?

That is just crazy, and I have hard time believing that the PR section at wing-level is cool with group-level and below using social media to communicate any message to the world without routing it through them first.



What? No, a person from the squadron didn't post. The base PR section, or whoever posted (in the shooter situation). The point is that an incorrect statement went out to the world through a social media site. The local news channel showed up reporting a shooter on base. Parents coming to pick their kids up at the CDC had no information other than there being someone firing a weapon on base. There was no other message sent out other than the Facebook page. The only updates given once the "shooter" was determined to be a drill was posted on Facebook.

The squadron level complaint is about people missing information about the late reporting during inclement weather because they didn't check their Facebook page at 5AM before leaving for work (assuming they have a Facebook page).

It's just a very ineffective and inaccurate way of doing business.

Rusty Jones
12-19-2014, 01:11 PM
2. Cell phones: everyone expects to be able to get a hold of anyone, at any time. We are in the age of instant access to information and people. I didn't own a cell phone until I got stationed in DC (my 4th Navy duty station -- 2012.) ENS Stalwart checking into his first Navy station (2003) was asked for his cell #, and I said I didn't have one.

Had a YNSN in my division on my last ship that would constantly get counseling chits because the voicemail on his cell phone was always full. I disagreed with the way a lot of things were run there and, for the life of me, I don't understand why a YNSN would EVER need to be recalled... but it is what it is.

Rusty Jones
12-19-2014, 01:18 PM
DH: Well, you need to get a cell phone.

Me: Sir, if the command deems me important enough to be on that short of a tether, they need to provide a phone or a beeper.

It looks like they're about to fix that REAL soon. Have you seen this article?

http://archive.navytimes.com/article/20140630/NEWS04/306300020/MCPON-wants-every-sailor-tablet

Absinthe Anecdote
12-19-2014, 01:32 PM
What? No, a person from the squadron didn't post. The base PR section, or whoever posted (in the shooter situation). The point is that an incorrect statement went out to the world through a social media site. The local news channel showed up reporting a shooter on base. Parents coming to pick their kids up at the CDC had no information other than there being someone firing a weapon on base. There was no other message sent out other than the Facebook page. The only updates given once the "shooter" was determined to be a drill was posted on Facebook.

The squadron level complaint is about people missing information about the late reporting during inclement weather because they didn't check their Facebook page at 5AM before leaving for work (assuming they have a Facebook page).

It's just a very ineffective and inaccurate way of doing business.

Wow! Those PR guys are supposed to be trained better than that.

If a person doesn't find out about a late reporting time, then they are at work early, not late.

Who's getting twisted out of shape over that?

sandsjames
12-19-2014, 01:45 PM
Wow! Those PR guys are supposed to be trained better than that.

If a person doesn't find out about a late reporting time, then they are at work early, not late.

Who's getting twisted out of shape over that?

If they don't find out about late reporting due to weather (icy roads, unsafe conditions, etc) and get in an accident then it is something to get bent out of shape over.

I'm not saying Facebook isn't an option, it just shouldn't be used as the only option.

SomeRandomGuy
12-19-2014, 02:07 PM
Like...like...like.

What Sheppard AFB now does is post everything to their Facebook page. All important messages (late reporting due to weather, etc). So now, not only are people expected to have a Facebook account, they are expected to check last thing before they go to bed and first thing when they wake up.

Facebook is actually a pretty useful tool for getting ahold of people these days. I heard about one finance office that was having trouble getting people to respond to debt notifications. The DoDFMR says that finance is supposed to notify you of a debt and you get 30 days before it starts collecting. For whatever reason people just ignore those emails. Well this one particular finance office started finding people on Facebook and messaging them or even posting on their wall. "Hi, I'm Amn XXX from the base finance office, can you please contact us regarding a very important matter?"

It was hilarious and highly effective but they got in trouble for doing it that way. Apparntly, Facebook isn't an officially recognized method to contact people. This was an overseas base by the way so most people did not have cell phones and it seems a lot of AFSCs don't get a chance to check their base email often. Facebook really was the way to go.

sandsjames
12-19-2014, 02:17 PM
Facebook is actually a pretty useful tool for getting ahold of people these days. I heard about one finance office that was having trouble getting people to respond to debt notifications. The DoDFMR says that finance is supposed to notify you of a debt and you get 30 days before it starts collecting. For whatever reason people just ignore those emails. Well this one particular finance office started finding people on Facebook and messaging them or even posting on their wall. "Hi, I'm Amn XXX from the base finance office, can you please contact us regarding a very important matter?"

It was hilarious and highly effective but they got in trouble for doing it that way. Apparntly, Facebook isn't an officially recognized method to contact people. This was an overseas base by the way so most people did not have cell phones and it seems a lot of AFSCs don't get a chance to check their base email often. Facebook really was the way to go.

It can be useful, yes, for those who have a page and check their pages regularly. But it shouldn't be used as the primary option.

Also, with all of the briefings given about what we post on social media, I personally don't want to be linked, liked, whatever, to any page that can be viewed by the CoC. To me it seems like a pretty easy way for the bosses to keep an eye on people. Many people don't want that.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-19-2014, 02:23 PM
If they don't find out about late reporting due to weather (icy roads, unsafe conditions, etc) and get in an accident then it is something to get bent out of shape over.

I'm not saying Facebook isn't an option, it just shouldn't be used as the only option.

Something is fishy about this story.

When you go out to your car and see ice and snow, I'm thinking that almost everyone is going to check on the reporting time.

Plus, even if they don't, there isn't any order against driving your car when it is snowing.

If it is such a heavy snow that the Govenor closes the roads, you don't need FB to tell you that.

Are you fibbing again?

Measure Man
12-19-2014, 02:44 PM
The only time I recall being called while on leave was while I was at Bitburg AB. Our shop was merging with our counterparts at another base Spangdahlem AB and we'd be operating out of two locations and I was to head the merger of our computer system and personnel. Command was to make the decision where the main support for both shops would be and neither shop was supposed to "campaign" with Command. It turned out the Capt. at the other base sent an email to Command tell about the problems our base was having, which wasn't true, and our Capt. got a hold of the email. That's when he called me in to review the email and figure out what to do about it. That, IMO, was justified for calling me while on leave.

Wow...all this maneuvering and complaining for something that has happened once in your career?

Good grief.

sandsjames
12-19-2014, 02:47 PM
Wow...all this maneuvering and complaining for something that has happened once in your career?

Good grief.

I think you misread. He's not complaining. He said that it was justified.

Mata Leao
12-19-2014, 02:49 PM
Thanks .... thanks ... thanks.



Leadership by Facebook. On one hand not a bad idea. It is a quick & easy way for people to 'pull' information from the command -- sort of like watching the news in the monrings when it snows for school closures. On the other hand, there is no way to ensure people are getting the information -- I would hope any information of real significance is passed in a more formal / official way than a Facebook message.

I read where Army leadership (not sure if Army wide or just one base/post) wants leaders to monitor subordinates FB pages for anything "alarming". That means, 1) you must have a FB page, 2) you have to be friends with your subordinates on FB, and 3) your subordinates can also see what you are up too. Sure you can block what certain people see, but does anyone really do that routinely?

From what I was reading, this wasn't manditory, just a suggestion, but I personally would have a big disagreement with this.

Measure Man
12-19-2014, 02:53 PM
I think you misread. He's not complaining. He said that it was justified.

I didn't misread it. I got that., getting called while on leave happened to him once, and it was justified...but in his previous post he has all this contingency planning for recording everyone's phone number, not calling them back until later at night etc...

sandsjames
12-19-2014, 02:56 PM
I didn't misread it. I got that., getting called while on leave happened to him once, and it was justified...but in his previous post he has all this contingency planning for recording everyone's phone number, not calling them back until later at night etc...

Gotcha....

LogDog
12-19-2014, 07:12 PM
Not kidding at all. It hasn't been officially briefed by the base that we need to keep an eye on the page put we had 2 different people get counseled (at squadron level) after there was an "active shooter" incident (which was actually a contractor jack hammering/drilling on base and someone panicked).
Does the base require you to be on FaceBook?

LogDog
12-19-2014, 07:20 PM
I didn't misread it. I got that., getting called while on leave happened to him once, and it was justified...but in his previous post he has all this contingency planning for recording everyone's phone number, not calling them back until later at night etc...
Yes, I provided the OP with an option for when he got called while on leave. It was one possible solution to a problem he was currently having.

Yes, I did get called in off leave once and as I said it was justified.

Yes, you are nitpicking for no reason other than to nitpick. If you think you're not nitpicking then please explain the purpose of your posts about my comments.

sandsjames
12-19-2014, 07:25 PM
Does the base require you to be on FaceBook?I'm retired, so they don't require much of me. Nobody is "required" to be on Facebook, just as nobody is "required" to have a cell phone. However, if you miss something for one of those reasons it's going to be an issue.

Measure Man
12-19-2014, 09:26 PM
Yes, I provided the OP with an option for when he got called while on leave. It was one possible solution to a problem he was currently having.

Yes, I did get called in off leave once and as I said it was justified.

Yes, you are nitpicking for no reason other than to nitpick. If you think you're not nitpicking then please explain the purpose of your posts about my comments.

Purpose of my post was to point out that there is a lot of moaning and whining in this thread for something that isn't much of a problem

technomage1
12-19-2014, 09:51 PM
Purpose of my post was to point out that there is a lot of moaning and whining in this thread for something that isn't much of a problem

...for you. But you don't have a problem being called, so no, it's not going to be an issue for you. If I take leave, yes, I have a problem with being recalled at 0530 for a practice recall, and called 3 times during the day for routine waitable stuff. And this did happen. And has happened more than once.

I didn't supply my number to these people. I didn't say, fell free to call. They looked it up on the recall roster when I wasn't in my office. They didn't ask my shop when I'd be back to determine if it could wait. To me, that's a foul and shows poor judgement and management.

I'd love to screen my calls but anything from the base shows up as the same number. And they don't leave a message, but do feel free to throw me under the bus with a, "we called but you didn't answer". And man, people do love to throw each other under the bus nowadays. It's nit something I've ever done nor will I ever do.

Hence my frustration.

OtisRNeedleman
12-20-2014, 12:48 AM
I read where Army leadership (not sure if Army wide or just one base/post) wants leaders to monitor subordinates FB pages for anything "alarming". That means, 1) you must have a FB page, 2) you have to be friends with your subordinates on FB, and 3) your subordinates can also see what you are up too. Sure you can block what certain people see, but does anyone really do that routinely?

From what I was reading, this wasn't manditory, just a suggestion, but I personally would have a big disagreement with this.


Monitoring subordinates' FB pages isn't "leadership", it's being a nanny. And it's bullshit, pure and simple. I don't use FB and from what I have seen believe FB is of little value, unless you have some desperate need to let everyone know all about you and what you are doing at all times.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-20-2014, 03:13 AM
Purpose of my post was to point out that there is a lot of moaning and whining in this thread for something that isn't much of a problem



...for you. But you don't have a problem being called, so no, it's not going to be an issue for you. If I take leave, yes, I have a problem with being recalled at 0530 for a practice recall, and called 3 times during the day for routine waitable stuff. And this did happen. And has happened more than once....

That little exchange was hilarious, you actually answered him with even more moaning and whining.

Seriously, you can't handle a phone call? You are actually complaining about getting a phone call.

That is so funny!

Say, shouldn't you be out yelling at the neighborhood children to stay out of your yard?

technomage1
12-20-2014, 09:00 AM
Monitoring subordinates' FB pages isn't "leadership", it's being a nanny. And it's bullshit, pure and simple. I don't use FB and from what I have seen believe FB is of little value, unless you have some desperate need to let everyone know all about you and what you are doing at all times.

FB has its uses. We have a career field page yhat people use to ask for sponsors when assignments come out. Yes, you can figure it out via the global, but this puts a face to a name. My base has a pretty good official and unofficial page that are both helpful. Of course, it can be abused too, like any tool.

fufu
12-22-2014, 03:56 AM
Techno. Enable the "Do not disturb" feature on your phone during the "night" time....which for me during leave is 9pm to 9am. Then, dont answer your phone. I HATE being called while on vacation. Take that shit somewhere else. I try to plan trips to places without service for this reason.

Any, to AA and others calling him a whiner.....there are a number of articles out there about the importance of a 100% disconnect from work while on vacation. It bothers me that people think it is okay to call others on leave. I refuse to call people on leave. If I don't know, I'll figure it out. As a Master, I make sure however is filling my position has a GOOD understand of what is going on. I was on con-lv for 30 days, I got 2 calls.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-22-2014, 12:01 PM
Any, to AA and others calling him a whiner.....there are a number of articles out there about the importance of a 100% disconnect from work while on vacation. It bothers me that people think it is okay to call others on leave. I refuse to call people on leave. If I don't know, I'll figure it out. As a Master, I make sure however is filling my position has a GOOD understand of what is going on. I was on con-lv for 30 days, I got 2 calls.

Which magazine did you read that in? Cosmo, Good Housekepping, Women's Health, or was it Estrogen Quarterly?

I suppose next you'll want to tell us what Dr. Oz and Oprah have to say on the matter. That's cool, have another rice cake and bust out a few more reps on your Thigh-Master. We'll call you hot pants fufu.

Meanwhile, I'll be answering the phone, like a boss.

Why don't you find some yummy recipe in your magazines and whip up a batch of fruit salad?

Sgt HULK
12-22-2014, 03:11 PM
Which magazine did you read that in? Cosmo, Good Housekepping, Women's Health, or was it Estrogen Quarterly?

I suppose next you'll want to tell us what Dr. Oz and Oprah have to say on the matter. That's cool, have another rice cake and bust out a few more reps on your Thigh-Master. We'll call you hot pants fufu.

Meanwhile, I'll be answering the phone, like a boss.

Why don't you find some yummy recipe in your magazines and whip up a batch of fruit salad?

on duty 24/7 join walmart

Rusty Jones
12-22-2014, 03:13 PM
on duty 24/7 join walmart

...the fuck did you just say?

Measure Man
12-22-2014, 03:34 PM
Techno. Enable the "Do not disturb" feature on your phone during the "night" time....which for me during leave is 9pm to 9am. Then, dont answer your phone. I HATE being called while on vacation. Take that shit somewhere else. I try to plan trips to places without service for this reason.

Your phone doesn't have an "off" switch?

LOL...man, the BS has really ramped up here to unprecedented levels...actually planning your vacation to a place that doesn't get service...LOL..too funny.

"Hmmm...let's see honey, will it be Cabo or Jamaica this year? Well, I hear they have cell phone service in Cabo, so let's go to Jamaica just to make sure no one from my work calls me to ask where I left the utility room key."


Any, to AA and others calling him a whiner.....there are a number of articles out there about the importance of a 100% disconnect from work while on vacation. It bothers me that people think it is okay to call others on leave. I refuse to call people on leave. If I don't know, I'll figure it out. As a Master, I make sure however is filling my position has a GOOD understand of what is going on. I was on con-lv for 30 days, I got 2 calls.

Yes, I can see how that probably delayed your full recuperation.

Measure Man
12-22-2014, 03:41 PM
...for you. But you don't have a problem being called, so no, it's not going to be an issue for you. If I take leave, yes, I have a problem with being recalled at 0530 for a practice recall, and called 3 times during the day for routine waitable stuff. And this did happen. And has happened more than once.

Are you sure it wasn't fives times? During mid-shift maybe? Five phone calls betwen 0200 and 0500...yeah, that's the ticket


I didn't supply my number to these people. I didn't say, fell free to call. They looked it up on the recall roster when I wasn't in my office. They didn't ask my shop when I'd be back to determine if it could wait. To me, that's a foul and shows poor judgement and management.

I'd love to screen my calls but anything from the base shows up as the same number. And they don't leave a message, but do feel free to throw me under the bus with a, "we called but you didn't answer". And man, people do love to throw each other under the bus nowadays. It's nit something I've ever done nor will I ever do.

Hence my frustration.

If that really happened, I could see the frustration....but, now, I think you guys are all exaggerating your stories to show you have a legitimate gripe.

The solution to your problem is obviously only taking vacations to places without cell phone coverage...

So carry on with the griping...you don't have to convince me anyway.

fufu
12-22-2014, 03:46 PM
Your phone doesn't have an "off" switch?

LOL...man, the BS has really ramped up here to unprecedented levels...actually planning your vacation to a place that doesn't get service...LOL..too funny.

"Hmmm...let's see honey, will it be Cabo or Jamaica this year? Well, I hear they have cell phone service in Cabo, so let's go to Jamaica just to make sure no one from my work calls me to ask where I left the utility room key."



Yes, I can see how that probably delayed your full recuperation.

You can afford Cabo and/or Jamaica? Baller! I can only afford a week at closest national park, aka camping....so the lack of service is "built in" to our lifestyle.

No, it didn't "delay" my recovery, but those issues could have and should have been easily handled without calling me.

I suspect that you guys like being called on leave, b/c it makes you feel important. If don't mind or like being contacted on leave, fine. Some of us prefer to escape the drudgery of the AF's bullshit. When I'm on leave, I don't visit AF related forums, FB pages or new sites. Its a full escape.

MM do you love your job? I hope you do. But, some of us don't. Some of us are clock watching until retirement in hopes of escaping to a better job. When someone hates their job, they certainly don't want to put an "extra" effort into it. Guess thats how I feel when I'm called on leave. :-)

Rusty Jones
12-22-2014, 03:50 PM
Your phone doesn't have an "off" switch?

LOL...man, the BS has really ramped up here to unprecedented levels...actually planning your vacation to a place that doesn't get service...LOL..too funny.

"Hmmm...let's see honey, will it be Cabo or Jamaica this year? Well, I hear they have cell phone service in Cabo, so let's go to Jamaica just to make sure no one from my work calls me to ask where I left the utility room key."



Yes, I can see how that probably delayed your full recuperation.

Like I said before, I really do think that people who don't want to be called while they're on leave... aren't so much annoyed by the phone calls as much as they're afraid of what might be said.

When their leave is up, are they afraid of what might be awaiting them back in the shop? I bet they are.

simply "turning off the phone" isn't an option because, in doing so, you knowingly and willfully made it impossible for anyone in your chain of command to reach you. Going somewhere where service isn't available frees you from that burden.

Like I said, I think fear is more of a factor than personal inconvenience.

Measure Man
12-22-2014, 03:54 PM
You can afford Cabo and/or Jamaica? Baller! I can only afford a week at closest national park, aka camping....so the lack of service is "built in" to our lifestyle.

Take Yosemite off your list...I went there last year and they totally had cell phone coverage.

I do a lot of camping...well, a few times a year, but I generally go to campgrounds that have services, I'm not a deep woods backpacker or nothing...more like RVing on the beach.


No, it didn't "delay" my recovery, but those issues could have and should have been easily handled without calling me.

I suspect that you guys like being called on leave, b/c it makes you feel important. If don't mind or like being contacted on leave, fine. Some of us prefer to escape the drudgery of the AF's bullshit. When I'm on leave, I don't visit AF related forums, FB pages or new sites. Its a full escape.

MM do you love your job? I hope you do. But, some of us don't. Some of us are clock watching until retirement in hopes of escaping to a better job. When someone hates their job, they certainly don't want to put an "extra" effort into it. Guess thats how I feel when I'm called on leave. :-)

I wouldn't say I LIKE being called on leave...I don't even recall getting called on leave...I just don't see the big deal. Especially to the degree of making a point to get out of cell phone range to avoid this major problem.

Seriously, why do you even have a phone?

Measure Man
12-22-2014, 04:00 PM
Like I said before, I really do think that people who don't want to be called while they're on leave... aren't so much annoyed by the phone calls as much as they're afraid of what might be said.

When their leave is up, are they afraid of what might be awaiting them back in the shop? I bet they are.

simply "turning off the phone" isn't an option because, in doing so, you knowingly and willfully made it impossible for anyone in your chain of command to reach you. Going somewhere where service isn't available frees you from that burden.

Like I said, I think fear is more of a factor than personal inconvenience.

I am not familiar with this world of insecurity and fear...are you afraid to F'd up at work before you left and are going to be called to the carpet?

giggawatt
12-22-2014, 04:03 PM
Just leave the country. No one wants to call you from overseas when you go back to the states. If I go to England from Germany or vice versa, no one is going to call you. I'm sure no one is going to call you if you take a vacation to Europe or Mexico either.

Measure Man
12-22-2014, 04:07 PM
Just leave the country. No one wants to call you from overseas when you go back to the states. If I go to England from Germany or vice versa, no one is going to call you. I'm sure no one is going to call you if you take a vacation to Europe or Mexico either.

You know...this just reminded me...I was on leave in Asia when I got a call from the Group CC and Wing CC to tell me I got a line number for CMSgt. They got the number for my hotel from my leave form.

fufu
12-22-2014, 04:08 PM
Take Yosemite off your list...I went there last year and they totally had cell phone coverage.

I do a lot of camping...well, a few times a year, but I generally go to campgrounds that have services, I'm not a deep woods backpacker or nothing...more like RVing on the beach.



I wouldn't say I LIKE being called on leave...I don't even recall getting called on leave...I just don't see the big deal. Especially to the degree of making a point to get out of cell phone range to avoid this major problem.

Seriously, why do you even have a phone?

Dammit! I really wanted to go to Yosemite soon. :-)

Backpacking is my favorite hobby, taking the dog out and enjoying the great outdoors. When I retire I'm hoping to complete the PCT.

All kidding aside, most places we go have cell service or service within in a few miles. I let the calls go to voicemail, check the voicemail and return the call if its important. Most of the time, it is something like, "Sgt Fufu, I can't find the [whatever]" and by the time i return the call/text its been found. Not a big deal. I just PREFER not to be bothered or bother others if I don't have too.

fufu
12-22-2014, 04:09 PM
Just leave the country. No one wants to call you from overseas when you go back to the states. If I go to England from Germany or vice versa, no one is going to call you. I'm sure no one is going to call you if you take a vacation to Europe or Mexico either.

Thats a call worth taking. :)

Measure Man
12-22-2014, 04:18 PM
Dammit! I really wanted to go to Yosemite soon. :-)

Backpacking is my favorite hobby, taking the dog out and enjoying the great outdoors. When I retire I'm hoping to complete the PCT.

Yosemite is NOT dog friendly. You can bring a dog..we brought ours, but dogs are not allowed on most of the trails and hikes, etc. There are only like two trails they allow dogs, they are easy paved walking trails, not even real hikes.

If I ever go back again I won't bring the dog.

Oddly enough though, the Japanese tourists go goo-goo ga-ga over dogs. If you wanted to pick up a Japanese chick while there, a dog is your best bet.


All kidding aside, most places we go have cell service or service within in a few miles. I let the calls go to voicemail, check the voicemail and return the call if its important. Most of the time, it is something like, "Sgt Fufu, I can't find the [whatever]" and by the time i return the call/text its been found. Not a big deal. I just PREFER not to be bothered or bother others if I don't have too.

fufu
12-22-2014, 04:25 PM
Yosemite is NOT dog friendly. You can bring a dog..we brought ours, but dogs are not allowed on most of the trails and hikes, etc. There are only like two trails they allow dogs, they are easy paved walking trails, not even real hikes.

If I ever go back again I won't bring the dog.

Oddly enough though, the Japanese tourists go goo-goo ga-ga over dogs. If you wanted to pick up a Japanese chick while there, a dog is your best bet.

Really? I'm surprised. I always take the dog, she lets me know when other animals are around.

Not sure the wife will approve of picking up Japanese chicks....just sayin.

Measure Man
12-22-2014, 04:31 PM
Really? I'm surprised. I always take the dog, she lets me know when other animals are around.

Yeah, we were surprised, too.

I think the majority of the reason is that they are like the ecological gestapo over there...making sure nothing gets touched in an unnatural way...so, I think they figure dogs might ruin some of the delicate fauna or something. Remember, they get millions of visitors every year, so, they are pretty strict on where you can go and what you can touch, etc.

Other than that, i think it's a dog-safety thing...dogs are not really good climbers and some of the trails are pretty steep


Not sure the wife will approve of picking up Japanese chicks....just sayin.

Leave the dog, take the canolis

fufu
12-22-2014, 06:28 PM
Yeah, we were surprised, too.

I think the majority of the reason is that they are like the ecological gestapo over there...making sure nothing gets touched in an unnatural way...so, I think they figure dogs might ruin some of the delicate fauna or something. Remember, they get millions of visitors every year, so, they are pretty strict on where you can go and what you can touch, etc.



Frickin California.

Measure Man
12-22-2014, 07:01 PM
Frickin California.

While Yosemite is in California...it is a national park, operated by the federal govt. I'm pretty sure Yellowstone is the same way about dogs, if not worse.

California is actually very dog friendly, overall...we take our dog lots of places.

fufu
12-22-2014, 09:06 PM
While Yosemite is in California...it is a national park, operated by the federal govt. I'm pretty sure Yellowstone is the same way about dogs, if not worse.

California is actually very dog friendly, overall...we take our dog lots of places.

The NP has interesting rules. We went to Yellowstone this summer. You can carry a gun, but you can't discharge it....doesn't make much sense. I think the same applies in Glacier as well. What I remember about Yellowstone and dogs, they weren't allowed near the thermal features. I don't recall too many restrictions in other areas.

Totally jacked this thread!

SomeRandomGuy
12-22-2014, 09:19 PM
Here is an interesting idea. Some in this thread have suggested why even have a phone if you don't want to take calls. Others have suggested taking a vacation where you don't have service. Still others have suggested turning the phone off.

Let's combine all of those ideas. Go to Wal-Mart and buy one of those cheap prepaid phones. Wal-Mart currently has one for $29.88. For the squadron recall roster give out that number. This way no one will hassle you for not having a phone. When they call you can just let it collect voicemails. People will soon learn that you aren't answering your phone and they won't ever bother calling you. Even when you aren't on leave. Of course your troops will never be able to get ahold of you either. I would say get a seperate phone for that but likely the number would eventually get passed around. Just be the guy who only has a prepaid phone that he never answers. People won't call.

Measure Man
12-22-2014, 09:55 PM
The NP has interesting rules. We went to Yellowstone this summer. You can carry a gun, but you can't discharge it....doesn't make much sense. I think the same applies in Glacier as well. What I remember about Yellowstone and dogs, they weren't allowed near the thermal features. I don't recall too many restrictions in other areas.

Totally jacked this thread!

I went to Yellowstone in 2001...I enjoyed that much more than Yosemite. The hot springs, Old Faithful, and tons of wildlife.

We were kind of disappointed that we didn't really see any wildlife in Yosemite...I mean, other than squirrels and some prairie dogs, rodent-type stuff...nothing big, oh maybe some deer that we can see at home.

fufu
12-22-2014, 10:33 PM
I went to Yellowstone in 2001...I enjoyed that much more than Yosemite. The hot springs, Old Faithful, and tons of wildlife.

We were kind of disappointed that we didn't really see any wildlife in Yosemite...I mean, other than squirrels and some prairie dogs, rodent-type stuff...nothing big, oh maybe some deer that we can see at home.

The highlight of the trip was massive bull elks and a wolf.

OtisRNeedleman
12-23-2014, 12:10 AM
While Yosemite is in California...it is a national park, operated by the federal govt. I'm pretty sure Yellowstone is the same way about dogs, if not worse.

California is actually very dog friendly, overall...we take our dog lots of places.

Hope you aren't like some Californians who drive with their dog on their laps...such people are in the running for Darwin Awards. See it all the time. Fools.

sandsjames
12-23-2014, 03:05 AM
Hope you aren't like some Californians who drive with their dog on their laps...such people are in the running for Darwin Awards. See it all the time. Fools.

Yeah, that only happens in California.

Measure Man
12-23-2014, 05:52 AM
Hope you aren't like some Californians who drive with their dog on their laps...such people are in the running for Darwin Awards. See it all the time. Fools.

Ha ha....no, I have an 85 lb boxer

Airborne
12-23-2014, 02:24 PM
The NP has interesting rules. We went to Yellowstone this summer. You can carry a gun, but you can't discharge it....doesn't make much sense. I think the same applies in Glacier as well. What I remember about Yellowstone and dogs, they weren't allowed near the thermal features. I don't recall too many restrictions in other areas.

Totally jacked this thread!

They dont want people just slinging rounds because they think they might be the only ones in a particular area. Then people leave brass which upsets the ecology of the place. However if your life were imminent danger then you could discharge your weapon with no problem. Gotta look at the big picture.

fufu
12-23-2014, 04:04 PM
They dont want people just slinging rounds because they think they might be the only ones in a particular area. Then people leave brass which upsets the ecology of the place. However if your life were imminent danger then you could discharge your weapon with no problem. Gotta look at the big picture.

They charged this guy:
http://missoulian.com/news/local/texas-man-charged-after-firing-gun-at-bear-in-glacier/article_dabebc8e-44ff-11e4-a89c-1fcb8e0252da.html

Later dropped the charges:
http://www.krtv.com/news/charge-dropped-in-glacier-park-gun-incident/

I get your point about brass. This story just seemed odd to me.

sandsjames
12-23-2014, 05:56 PM
They dont want people just slinging rounds because they think they might be the only ones in a particular area. Then people leave brass which upsets the ecology of the place. However if your life were imminent danger then you could discharge your weapon with no problem. Gotta look at the big picture.

"Upsets the ecology". I love (hate) that phrase. They take a forest area, charge people to visit/stay, then talk about damaging the "natural habitat". That's like saying "I'm a vegetarian...the only meat I eat is chicken."

OtisRNeedleman
12-23-2014, 07:20 PM
Yeah, that only happens in California.

It may happen in other places. Haven't been outside CA in years.

sandsjames
12-23-2014, 07:35 PM
It may happen in other places. Haven't been outside CA in years.

I've been to several states and countries. Everywhere I've been has the "worst" drivers. I think the conclusion is that there are shitty drivers and stupid people everywhere.

Measure Man
12-23-2014, 10:05 PM
Everywhere I've been has the "worst" drivers.

God, that is so true...LOL.

We could probably get a nice list going of the things "Everywhere" has:

- Weather that can change rapidly (even heard the meteorologist in California say this...he has no idea what rapidly changing weather is, methings)

- "You go through 5 police jurisdictions between Partytown and base...state police county sheriff, Jack City Police, Collar City Police, and base cops"

- The alochol here is stronger than in the U.S. (Every foreign country)

- Terrible drivers, as mentioned

- Gangs and Drugs...oh and the "Meth capitol of Pennsyltuckey" is the next town over.

Rollyn01
12-23-2014, 10:45 PM
God, that is so true...LOL.

We could probably get a nice list going of the things "Everywhere" has:

- Weather that can change rapidly (even heard the meteorologist in California say this...he has no idea what rapidly changing weather is, methings)

- "You go through 5 police jurisdictions between Partytown and base...state police county sheriff, Jack City Police, Collar City Police, and base cops"

- The alochol here is stronger than in the U.S. (Every foreign country)

- Terrible drivers, as mentioned

- Gangs and Drugs...oh and the "Meth capitol of Pennsyltuckey" is the next town over.

Hmm... OITNB, I like it. However, Massachusetts is home to the worst drivers and we wear that as a badge of honor because we're Massholes like that.

BENDER56
12-24-2014, 12:15 AM
Hmm... OITNB, I like it. However, Massachusetts is home to the worst drivers and we wear that as a badge of honor because we're Massholes like that.

I grew up in MA and used to think that, too. But then I traveled the country (and a little of the world) and disabused myself of that notion.

Now before I continue, we must acknowledge that not everyone agrees on the definition of "bad driver."

The trait I most associate the typical MA driver is aggressiveness. A Massachusetts driver will look you straight in the eye while he pulls out in front of you and forces you to slow down so you don't plow into him. Most people in that situation think, "What an asshole." I think, "Good move." Instead of wussily sitting there for an eternity waiting for an "appropriate" opening in the traffic flow, he creates his own. See, that's why he looks you in the eye -- he wants to make sure you're paying attention. If you weren't, he wouldn't risk it.

With that in mind, I propose the worst drivers in the entire world are all living and/or driving here in Florida.

They don't have a freaking clue what the hell they're supposed to do in even the most simple situations. They never use their blinkers. They slow down and even come to complete stops in the right-of-way because they have no clue about anything. They can't turn right unless they come to a near-complete stop. They don't go into the center turn lanes until they've almost completely stopped in the left traffic lane. When they realize they're in a wrong lane -- which they usually are -- they don't drive past their turn and figure out how to turn around and go back. No, they just stop wherever they are and block traffic while they hope someone will let them in, which no one ever does. They run red lights -- fast. They're always on their phones -- honking when a light turns green is automatic. And unlike the masshole, they'll sit for an eternity waiting for a break in the traffic so they can pull out -- while you're sitting behind them screaming and laying on your horn. AAAArrrrgggh!!! I hate them!

I'll take an overly aggressive Masshole driver over an obtusely clueless Florida driver any day of the week.

Measure Man
12-24-2014, 12:34 AM
I grew up in MA and used to think that, too. But then I traveled the country (and a little of the world) and disabused myself of that notion.

Now before I continue, we must acknowledge that not everyone agrees on the definition of "bad driver."

The trait I most associate the typical MA driver is aggressiveness. A Massachusetts driver will look you straight in the eye while he pulls out in front of you and forces you to slow down so you don't plow into him. Most people in that situation think, "What an asshole." I think, "Good move." Instead of wussily sitting there for an eternity waiting for an "appropriate" opening in the traffic flow, he creates his own. See, that's why he looks you in the eye -- he wants to make sure you're paying attention. If you weren't, he wouldn't risk it.

With that in mind, I propose the worst drivers in the entire world are all living and/or driving here in Florida.

They don't have a freaking clue what the hell they're supposed to do in even the most simple situations. They never use their blinkers. They slow down and even come to complete stops in the right-of-way because they have no clue about anything. They can't turn right unless they come to a near-complete stop. They don't go into the center turn lanes until they've almost completely stopped in the left traffic lane. When they realize they're in a wrong lane -- which they usually are -- they don't drive past their turn and figure out how to turn around and go back. No, they just stop wherever they are and block traffic while they hope someone will let them in, which no one ever does. They run red lights -- fast. They're always on their phones -- honking when a light turns green is automatic. And unlike the masshole, they'll sit for an eternity waiting for a break in the traffic so they can pull out -- while you're sitting behind them screaming and laying on your horn. AAAArrrrgggh!!! I hate them!

I'll take an overly aggressive Masshole driver over an obtusely clueless Florida driver any day of the week.

The one trait I'll give to California drivers is they have absolutely NO CONCEPT of moving to the right lane, except to pass. I honestly think it's just not taught here as a thing because people have no idea about moving to the right if you're slower traffic.

I hate passing on the right...it's just an ingrained aversion, especially after being in Germany. So, if I come upon a car in the left lane going slow, I will get behind them and wait for them to pull over. Californians are the only ones I've experienced that never do...they will look at you and ask why don't you go in the other lane? Clueless.

Germany was great on that...they will cut your head off if you hang out in the left lane without actively passing a car.

Measure Man
12-24-2014, 01:52 AM
Is that an Orange is the New Black reference?

Well, it wasn't intentionally...I just meant it as a generic name of a state.

But, yeah, that show does have a character that is called that...honestly, that isn't where I first heard it...when I was in Ohio it was a common term to refer to Pennsylvania redneck country.

TJMAC77SP
12-24-2014, 01:56 AM
Well, it wasn't intentionally...I just meant it as a generic name of a state.

But, yeah, that show does have a character that is called that...honestly, that isn't where I first heard it...when I was in Ohio it was a common term to refer to Pennsylvania redneck country.

I deleted my post after I saw Rolly already commented on it.

Rollyn01
12-24-2014, 02:05 AM
I deleted my post after I saw Rolly already commented on it.

I was wondering where it went, but high five for being a fan too. I am a male and I'm not ashamed to admit that show is crazy as fuck.

TJMAC77SP
12-24-2014, 03:12 AM
I was wondering where it went, but high five for being a fan too. I am a male and I'm not ashamed to admit that show is crazy as fuck.

I love that show and have always enjoyed Taylor Schilling's work ever since she was in Mercy.

I saw Crazy Eyes in an interview the other day. It's amazing what she looks like in 'normal' life.

giggawatt
12-24-2014, 12:01 PM
I can confirm. I am Masshole. But you haven't driven until you've driven in Greece. Specifically, Athens Greece.

Also, I didn't actually drive there, but driving pretty much anywhere in Africa is a hazardous activity.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-24-2014, 01:05 PM
I can confirm. I am Masshole. But you haven't driven until you've driven in Greece. Specifically, Athens Greece.

Also, I didn't actually drive there, but driving pretty much anywhere in Africa is a hazardous activity.

The Cypriots aren't fun to drive with, but the Saudis in Riyadh are the worst, they drive big heavy cars and their vision is routinely impaired by their ridiculous religious headgear.

You see as many car parts laying in the streets as you do BBQ rib bones on the ground at a Baptist picnic.

In the US the worst drivers are in the South, especially the people who eat hamburger helper and listen to country music.

Minivans with fat women at the controls should be avoided at all costs.

sandsjames
12-24-2014, 01:28 PM
The Cypriots aren't fun to drive with, but the Saudis in Riyadh are the worst, they drive big heavy cars and their vision is routinely impaired by their ridiculous religious headgear.

You see as many car parts laying in the streets as you do BBQ rib bones on the ground at a Baptist picnic.

In the US the worst drivers are in the South, especially the people who eat hamburger helper and listen to country music.

Minivans with fat women at the controls should be avoided at all costs.

I enjoyed Kuwait, where there were 5 lanes of traffic on a two lane road. Italy was also pretty scary.

KnuckleDragger
12-24-2014, 03:49 PM
Italy was also pretty scary.

Mainland was fine. Sicily...Catania specifically, was the worst I've seen. Locals use constant honking like sonar.

Don't call people on leave. Period.

TJMAC77SP
12-24-2014, 05:01 PM
The Cypriots aren't fun to drive with, but the Saudis in Riyadh are the worst, they drive big heavy cars and their vision is routinely impaired by their ridiculous religious headgear.

You see as many car parts laying in the streets as you do BBQ rib bones on the ground at a Baptist picnic.

In the US the worst drivers are in the South, especially the people who eat hamburger helper and listen to country music.

Minivans with fat women at the controls should be avoided at all costs.

Actually I live in the south and we now have an increasing number of bad drivers. Most seem to have out-of-state (out-of-region) sports teams logos on their cars.

I also find Susie Hipster in her yoga pants driving her Landestroyer 3000 to be the one to avoid at all costs.

Rusty Jones
12-24-2014, 05:04 PM
Actually I live in the south and we now have an increasing number of bad drivers. Most seem to have out-of-state (out-of-region) sports teams logos on their cars.

One thing that really irks me to death here in Hampton Roads, is the number of people here who complain about how "people in Hampton Roads" are bad drivers - those complaints mostly coming from people who aren't from here (i.e., people who are, or were, in the military).

I always respond by asking them - since when does "people in Hampton Roads" not include YOU?

TJMAC77SP
12-24-2014, 05:15 PM
One thing that really irks me to death here in Hampton Roads, is the number of people here who complain about the bad drivers - those complaints mostly coming from people who aren't from here (i.e., people who are, or were, in the military).

I always respond by asking them - since when does "people in Hampton Roads" not include YOU?

I was stationed in NC 1980-1985 and have been visiting the western part of the state since 1988. Have lived here full time since 2003. In the beginning the worst thing I could say about the drivers was their complete inability to drive on any surface when the temp dips below 32 degrees. Just can't do it.

Now, however a day never goes by when I don't see some asshat doing what asshats do, act rude and dangerously in their vehicles. Our population has increased to the point when brand new roads are obsolete the day they are finished. It isn't because the locals have a high birth rate. It is all the folks from the north who got tired of paying so much to live and think everything is cheaper in the south (housing yes, everything else, not so much). We even have 'half-backers' moving in. Those who moved to Florida from the north and found out it isn't the paradise they believed so are coming north. Not all the way north, only about half way. I wouldn't mind so much if they would leave their bullshit up north. How anyone can say that they are from NY or NJ and therefore are loud and rude; and say it with pride is beyond me. Plain stupidity.

Measure Man
12-24-2014, 05:16 PM
Actually I live in the south and we now have an increasing number of bad drivers. Most seem to have out-of-state (out-of-region) sports teams logos on their cars.

I also find Susie Hipster in her yoga pants driving her Landestroyer 3000 to be the one to avoid at all costs.

I used to hate when Southerners would come up to New Jersey and could not, for the life of them, figure out how to drive through a traffic circle.

Traffic Circles are awesome, BTW. Best thing since electronic turn signals.

Rainmaker
12-24-2014, 05:53 PM
I used to hate when Southerners would come up to New Jersey and could not, for the life of them, figure out how to drive through a traffic circle.

Traffic Circles are awesome, BTW. Best thing since electronic turn signals.

Not only are Roundabouts stupid and dangerous, they are Un-American. Roundabouts require more taxes to maintain and cause more accidents (raising our insurance rates). Folks, here's Yet another case of the Elitist Reptilian Shape shifters from the City of London Corporation trying to control us.

KnuckleDragger
12-24-2014, 06:29 PM
Roundabouts require more taxes to maintain and cause more accidents (raising our insurance rates).

Have any sources on this?

Rainmaker
12-24-2014, 06:40 PM
Have any sources on this?

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2011/oct/31/corporation-london-city-medieval

TJMAC77SP
12-24-2014, 07:35 PM
I used to hate when Southerners would come up to New Jersey and could not, for the life of them, figure out how to drive through a traffic circle.

Traffic Circles are awesome, BTW. Best thing since electronic turn signals.

Yeah, rotaries (as they are called in New England) are great. A gift from the UK. They are actually being used more and more in the south. It's a slow process.

RM: I didn't see a mention of roundabouts in the article you cited. I can believe they cost more to build and maintain. The engineering is a bit more complex than simply joining straight lines (roads). They might seem to account for more accidents as well since you are bound to have the uninitiated trying to navigate them. Much like the people MM mentioned. Studies indicate however that they are safer overall.

Measure Man
12-24-2014, 08:42 PM
Not only are Roundabouts stupid and dangerous, they are Un-American. Roundabouts require more taxes to maintain and cause more accidents (raising our insurance rates).

...well, we know who can't figure out how to drive them.

Really not that complicated and they keep traffic flowing.

http://safety.fhwa.dot.gov/intersection/roundabouts/fhwasa08006/

Traffic circles (roundabouts):

Safer
- 90% reduction in fatalities
- 76% reduction in injuries
- 35% reduction in crashes

Save money
- No signal equipment to install, power, and maintain
- Smaller roundabouts may require less right-of-way than traditional intersections
- Often less pavement needed


*Federal Highway Administration

Absinthe Anecdote
12-24-2014, 10:29 PM
Not only are Roundabouts stupid and dangerous, they are Un-American. Roundabouts require more taxes to maintain and cause more accidents (raising our insurance rates). Folks, here's Yet another case of the Elitist Reptilian Shape shifters from the City of London Corporation trying to control us.

Call them traffic circles and the work just fine and are very American. The Jersey Jug Handle works good too, don't be such a kook.

Rainmaker
12-25-2014, 01:43 AM
Yeah, rotaries (as they are called in New England) are great. A gift from the UK. They are actually being used more and more in the south. It's a slow process.

RM: I didn't see a mention of roundabouts in the article you cited. I can believe they cost more to build and maintain. The engineering is a bit more complex than simply joining straight lines (roads). They might seem to account for more accidents as well since you are bound to have the uninitiated trying to navigate them. Much like the people MM mentioned. Studies indicate however that they are safer overall.

Gift from the UK??!! Bollocks!
Rainmaker's 5th Great Grandfather was and pioneer frontiersman that served with bravery in order to spare us from having to follow any immoral and Anti-American driving rules. Rainmaker will not give away that legacy without a fight Bitches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgX6qlJEMc

Stalwart
12-25-2014, 02:07 AM
... in order to spare us from having to follow any immoral and Anti-American driving rules.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgX6qlJEMc

Anti-American ... hmmmmmm, but immoral ... what driving rule could be immoral?

Is that video safe for work? I have the mid-watch on my watch floor until 0600 ... so rest easy little elves, I have Santa's back tonight.

Rainmaker
12-25-2014, 02:30 AM
Anti-American ... hmmmmmm, but immoral ... what driving rule could be immoral?

Is that video safe for work? I have the mid-watch on my watch floor until 0600 ... so rest easy little elves, I have Santa's back tonight.

I wish you a Merry Christmas and Thank You for Your service Sir! John 15:13

TJMAC77SP
12-25-2014, 03:01 AM
Gift from the UK??!! Bollocks!
Rainmaker's 5th Great Grandfather was and pioneer frontiersman that served with bravery in order to spare us from having to follow any immoral and Anti-American driving rules. Rainmaker will not give away that legacy without a fight Bitches.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iAgX6qlJEMc

I knew without even watching...........Look kids Big Ben, Parliament....classic.

TJMAC77SP
12-25-2014, 03:02 AM
I wish you a Merry Christmas and Thank You for Your service Sir! John 15:13

I echo that Stalwart. Thank you and Merry Christmas.

BTW: The video is safe.

OtisRNeedleman
12-25-2014, 06:18 AM
Anti-American ... hmmmmmm, but immoral ... what driving rule could be immoral?

Is that video safe for work? I have the mid-watch on my watch floor until 0600 ... so rest easy little elves, I have Santa's back tonight.

I know you have our backs tonight, too, pal. :) I remember working the day watch as a butter-bar flight commander at Osan,Korea on Christmas Day 1982.

Thanks, and Merry Christmas to everyone!

VFFTSGT
01-28-2015, 03:45 AM
Some base/units are worse about this than others, but I've been noticing a trend over the last couple of years in calls (especially if you have a cell phone) while on leave. I certainly understand emergency situations, but the unit trying to set up my annual dental exam, asking where such as such EPR is (when it's plainly showed in the system) can all easily wait until I get back from the day or two I usually take at a time. Leave is a time to unwind. That's hard to do when they expect you to use your personal phone as a standby device & get irritated if you don't answer or call back right away. Also - you can tell when I'll be back easily from my leave paperwork, the sign out board, and/or my out of office editor reply.

I also wish the clinic would let you opt out of their nuisance calls (appointment reminders and satisfaction surveys).

Things I do want to be called about: a troop of mine in the hospital or jail. National emergencies. Weather related emergencies. Medical test results. There may be a few other categories, but mostly it can wait.

Oh, and for the love of whatever you consider holy, do NOT write in your base supplement to AFI that local leaves will be called in a practice recall. Real world, sure. Got it. But exercises or practices, leave me alone. The guilty base(s?) knows who they are.

I'm not a shirt, Chief, standby guy, etc. I am replaceable and I did take care of it 9/10 times before I went on leave so I wouldn't be bothered while on leave. That goes with being a responsible adult.

I'm not going to give anyone but my subordinates my number at my next base. The recall roster isn't getting it, the clinic isn't getting it, and it's not going on my leave form. It's been abused too much.

The best thing about being a civilian now and my job I have... Call me when I am off = 30 minutes of overtime minimum. Yes, overtime! :)

The excuses of those in the AF are so pathetic... 'you are on duty 24/7' ...sure, for a real emergency affecting national security. Not for some arbitrary phone call that is not important by any means.

And then there is the 'needs of the Air Force.' Again, every time I heard this phrase it was nothing but one individual's arbitrary decision. Nothing to really do with the 'needs of the Air Force.'

The people that say these phrases or think them, think the world revolves around them and do not understand the Air Force survived long before any one individual there now and will long survive without them one day too...

I DO NOT miss it at all. I DO NOT regret getting out early one bit. It was the best decision I have ever made. Life is greener on the other side and no, you do not have to kick the can down the road to retirement to be happy later in life.

Measure Man
01-28-2015, 10:41 PM
The best thing about being a civilian now and my job I have... Call me when I am off = 30 minutes of overtime minimum. Yes, overtime! :)

The excuses of those in the AF are so pathetic... 'you are on duty 24/7' ...sure, for a real emergency affecting national security. Not for some arbitrary phone call that is not important by any means.

And then there is the 'needs of the Air Force.' Again, every time I heard this phrase it was nothing but one individual's arbitrary decision. Nothing to really do with the 'needs of the Air Force.'

The people that say these phrases or think them, think the world revolves around them and do not understand the Air Force survived long before any one individual there now and will long survive without them one day too...

I DO NOT miss it at all. I DO NOT regret getting out early one bit. It was the best decision I have ever made. Life is greener on the other side and no, you do not have to kick the can down the road to retirement to be happy later in life.

I'm civilian...contractor actually...but am straight salary...no overtime. I still occasionally get called on off time and it still doesn't bother me much.

....but, if our hourly guys get called in, they get a minimum of 4 hours OT

Sergeant eNYgma
02-20-2015, 07:52 AM
Very interesting, haven't been on leave at my current base yet. At my last base they did pretty good with leaving me the heck alone so I'm happy with that. They passed over people on leave during recalls so at least did that right.