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View Full Version : Aussie terror incident. What's up with all those showing 'support to the muslims"



garhkal
12-17-2014, 07:23 AM
OK. So your country just suffered a terror incident, and all these people are coming out in 'support of muslims'??

http://perezhilton.com/2014-12-16-australia-terror-attack-twitter-users-illridewithyou-trending-muslims-protection-wow#.VJEuwhYQ0i0

http://mic.com/articles/106442/australians-show-the-world-exactly-how-to-respond-to-terrorism-with-ill-ride-with-you

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/australians-show-solidarity-and-scorn-for-muslims-amid-sydney-siege/article22082805/

http://usa24.mobi/news/australians-use-illridewithyou-to-support-muslims

I am just dumbfounded, that people could be that stupid.

Did we see any support from the Islamic community when our people were getting beheaded for reporting on the Syrian war, or who were over there to HELP their people?
Has any terrorist been turned in to authorities cause 'moderate good' muslims spoke up?

Absinthe Anecdote
12-17-2014, 11:48 AM
OK. So your country just suffered a terror incident, and all these people are coming out in 'support of muslims'??

http://perezhilton.com/2014-12-16-australia-terror-attack-twitter-users-illridewithyou-trending-muslims-protection-wow#.VJEuwhYQ0i0

http://mic.com/articles/106442/australians-show-the-world-exactly-how-to-respond-to-terrorism-with-ill-ride-with-you

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/world/australians-show-solidarity-and-scorn-for-muslims-amid-sydney-siege/article22082805/

http://usa24.mobi/news/australians-use-illridewithyou-to-support-muslims

I am just dumbfounded, that people could be that stupid.

What would you prefer they do?

Burn down mosques?





Has any terrorist been turned in to authorities cause 'moderate good' muslims spoke up?

In the US, plenty of Muslims have informed on members of their own mosques for having radical views and making statements about wanting to attack the US.

All of those FBI sting operations of people trying to buy bomb making materials, or being duped into plots by FBI agents posing as Al Q'aida members involved informants from the Muslim community.

sandsjames
12-17-2014, 12:57 PM
And it doesn't matter anyway, because it's all part of God's plan. We can't change it. Just go with it.

Rusty Jones
12-17-2014, 01:30 PM
And it doesn't matter anyway, because it's all part of God's plan. We can't change it. Just go with it.

Of course, if you feel you've got better ideas than God does, that's what prayer is for.

sandsjames
12-17-2014, 01:41 PM
Of course, if you feel you've got better ideas than God does, that's what prayer is for.

Exactly. Now back on point. You won't "dupe" me into another sidebar.

Rusty Jones
12-17-2014, 01:47 PM
Exactly. Now back on point. You won't "dupe" me into another sidebar.

Oh, come on! The OP could just as easily go under the "Religion" category as it does the "In The News" category!

sandsjames
12-17-2014, 01:48 PM
I think AA is right on this (of course I would agree with myself). There are plenty of Muslims who speak out against this sort of thing all around the world. The difference is that the media doesn't publicize it. It's not surprising, though, that a Jewish ran media wouldn't want to show Muslims in a positive light. Nomsayin'?

Rainmaker
12-17-2014, 02:35 PM
Wow, This whole thing is really very very scary. I just feel safer knowing that the authorities here in this country are ignoring the constitution and Opening every e-mail and taping every phone conversation and filming us everywhere we go so that those crazy "ISIS" terrorists Won't come over here.

But, What Australia really needs to do is to import more Muslims into the population because Islam is a religion of Peace and Diversity is their greatest strength.

If Cleric Sheik Man Haron Monis had only gotten SAPR training (after he sent all that hate mail to the soldiers widows) this probably never would've happened.

Just Thank G-d the Aussies got rid of their guns after that school shooting or else it could have been worse.

TJMAC77SP
12-17-2014, 02:44 PM
All of those FBI sting operations of people trying to buy bomb making materials, or being duped into plots by FBI agents posing as Al Q'aida members involved informants from the Muslim community.

Actually, many but not all. I think it would help if there were more public outcry from the Muslim community in the wake of attacks and incidents. I saw this in a statement issued very quickly by a leading Muslim in Australia. The perception, fueled partly by people like Rep King in NY is that the Muslim community is not helping. While this isn't true people like King are winning the PR battle.

"Many Of Our Cases Are A Result Of The Cooperation From the Muslim Community In The United States." From FBI Director Robert Mueller's 2008 testimony before the House Judiciary Committee:

Rusty Jones
12-17-2014, 02:52 PM
Actually, many but not all. I think it would help if there were more public outcry from the Muslim community in the wake of attacks and incidents. I saw this in a statement issued very quickly by a leading Muslim in Australia. The perception, fueled partly by people like Rep King in NY is that the Muslim community is not helping. While this isn't true people like King are winning the PR battle.

"Many Of Our Cases Are A Result Of The Cooperation From the Muslim Community In The United States." From FBI Director Robert Mueller's 2008 testimony before the House Judiciary Committee:

I understand what's being said here; problem is, this implies just because two or more people share the same faith, that they're all responsible for each other's (mis)behavior. Requiring the "Muslim community" to apologize for the ones who misbehave also engenders the judgment of Muslims as a collective and not as individuals. Those are definitely things that we would never want to wish upon ourselves.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-17-2014, 03:14 PM
And it doesn't matter anyway, because it's all part of God's plan. We can't change it. Just go with it.

You just have to trust that the loving, all merciful Christian God knows what is best.

If God fucks you and your whole family over, with a car bomb or a tornado, he is doing it for a good reason.

God must want all these Muslims shooting and killing others, or else he would not have included it in his plan.

sandsjames
12-17-2014, 03:15 PM
I understand what's being said here; problem is, this implies just because two or more people share the same faith, that they're all responsible for each other's (mis)behavior. Requiring the "Muslim community" to apologize for the ones who misbehave also engenders the judgment of Muslims as a collective and not as individuals. Those are definitely things that we would never want to wish upon ourselves.

Agree. Any time the members of a specific race comes out in large numbers to support or denounce acts by their own race, or another race, it does nothing but create problems to the collective.

sandsjames
12-17-2014, 03:16 PM
You just have to trust that the loving, all merciful Christian God knows what is best.

If God fucks you and your whole family over, with a car bomb or a tornado, he is doing it for a good reason.

God must want all these Muslims shooting and killing others, or else he would not have included it in his plan.

You're right, which means I'm right.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-17-2014, 03:20 PM
You're right, which means I'm right.

Do me a favor, and yell at TJ for being petty. He corrected my post just because I used the word "all" and he changed it to many.

Mjölnir
12-17-2014, 03:35 PM
You two being nice to each other is freaking me out.

http://media0.giphy.com/media/evWLoYo9qpkcg/200_s.gif

Rollyn01
12-17-2014, 03:37 PM
You two being nice to each other is freaking me out.

http://media0.giphy.com/media/evWLoYo9qpkcg/200_s.gif

Don't worry. I'm sure they'll go back to being at each others' throats by COB.

Rainmaker
12-17-2014, 03:46 PM
You just have to trust that the loving, all merciful Christian God knows what is best.

If God fucks you and your whole family over, with a car bomb or a tornado, he is doing it for a good reason.

God must want all these Muslims shooting and killing others, or else he would not have included it in his plan.

Abs, The Politically correct spelling is G-d. e.g "If G-d F''s you and your whole family over" Thank you for your consideration.

Rollyn01
12-17-2014, 03:50 PM
Abs, The Politically correct spelling is G-d. e.g "If G-d F''s you and your whole family over" Thank you for your consideration.

Screw that, let him be politically incorrect. It's fun. Too bad they canceled that show. It was awesome.

Rainmaker
12-17-2014, 04:07 PM
Screw that, let him be politically incorrect. It's fun. Too bad they canceled that show. It was awesome.

Yep. great show, and isn't it ironic that the show was CANXD by ABC for Maher saying something deemed Politically incorrect.? shame cause Maher has real talent and now he never strays too far off his handler's script.

Rollyn01
12-17-2014, 04:21 PM
Yep. great show, and isn't it ironic that the show was CANXD by ABC for Maher saying something deemed Politically incorrect.? shame cause Maher has real talent and now he never strays too far off his handler's script.

Check out Real Time on HBO. He's gone off the rocker and is in top form on that show. I'm still pissed off that they canceled him. I was watching that show religiously. Sad part is, they canned him for being, as they perceived it, "unpatriotic" for saying that the government was being cowards in how they was telling people to go about their day like 9/11 never happened. He was merely drawing parallels to our reaction to Pearl Harbor and the fact that we had the perfect opportunity to draw everyone in the war effort like we did in WW2. Too bad many people weren't smart enough to understand that.

TJMAC77SP
12-17-2014, 04:32 PM
I understand what's being said here; problem is, this implies just because two or more people share the same faith, that they're all responsible for each other's (mis)behavior. Requiring the "Muslim community" to apologize for the ones who misbehave also engenders the judgment of Muslims as a collective and not as individuals. Those are definitely things that we would never want to wish upon ourselves.

I agree however two facts are at play, which regardless of fairness or complete accuracy are still facts.

The perception is that ALL Muslims support this violence. That is silly of course but a lot of factors contribute to the perception and many are not unfair. I lived through a similar (but on a lower level of course) situation during the 70's in Boston with perceived support to the IRA. The general consensus was that all Irish-American supported the IRA. This again was silly but when several small facts were taken into consideration, the perception wasn't all that far-fetched. There was definite support (I personally saw many collection cans for NORAID) and very little condemnation of the violence but much teeth-gnashing about the conditions at Maze Prison

The sheer volume and level of violence (the attack in Pakistan yesterday being a good -if that is an appropriate word to use for such a vile act - example of this). People just can't help but start painting with a very large brush. One group estimates that there is an Islamic-inspired act of violence committed every five hours around the world.

Many Muslim organizations (CAIR for one) have been linked to providing support to groups declared to be terrorist organizations (HAMAS) and have traditionally been very slow to condemn or completely silent on violence committed in the name of the religion which they exist to support.

This is a simplistic explanation but I can certainly understand why people have these reactions and attitudes

TJMAC77SP
12-17-2014, 04:33 PM
Do me a favor, and yell at TJ for being petty. He corrected my post just because I used the word "all" and he changed it to many.

If you believe that ALL equals MANY then I was being petty.

sandsjames
12-17-2014, 04:33 PM
You two being nice to each other is freaking me out.

http://media0.giphy.com/media/evWLoYo9qpkcg/200_s.gif


I like how you think there are two of us.

sandsjames
12-17-2014, 04:35 PM
If you believe that ALL equals MANY then I was being petty.

Why so petty? Did I correct you when you used the phrase "general consensus" in a different thread? Did I point out that "consensus" means "general agreement" so "general consensus" is repetitively redundant? Focus on the important stuff!!!

TJMAC77SP
12-17-2014, 04:43 PM
Why so petty? Did I correct you when you used the phrase "general consensus" in a different thread? Did I point out that "consensus" means "general agreement" so "general consensus" is repetitively redundant? Focus on the important stuff!!!

General consensus is a widely misused phrase, admittedly redundant. Like CAC Card. I wouldn't correct that. I also don't correct people when they use irregardless. I am also going to assume you used repetitively redundant on purpose. If my use of the phrase had fundamentally changed a fact I was stating then you should have corrected me. Did it do that?

When someone cites that ALL situations resulted from a particular circumstance when that isn't true then I point that out. If that is being petty I will continue to be so.

Rainmaker
12-17-2014, 04:52 PM
I agree however two facts are at play, which regardless of fairness or complete accuracy are still facts.

The perception is that ALL Muslims support this violence. That is silly of course but a lot of factors contribute to the perception and many are not unfair. I lived through a similar (but on a lower level of course) situation during the 70's in Boston with perceived support to the IRA. The general consensus was that all Irish-American supported the IRA. This again was silly but when several small facts were taken into consideration, the perception wasn't all that far-fetched. There was definite support (I personally saw many collection cans for NORAID) and very little condemnation of the violence but much teeth-gnashing about the conditions at Maze Prison

The sheer volume and level of violence (the attack in Pakistan yesterday being a good -if that is an appropriate word to use for such a vile act - example of this). People just can't help but start painting with a very large brush. One group estimates that there is an Islamic-inspired act of violence committed every five hours around the world.

Many Muslim organizations (CAIR for one) have been linked to providing support to groups declared to be terrorist organizations (HAMAS) and have traditionally been very slow to condemn or completely silent on violence committed in the name of the religion which they exist to support.

This is a simplistic explanation but I can certainly understand why people have these reactions and attitudes

Rainmaker has a question. So, When ISIS puts out it's 2014 annual report in .pdf format do you think they'll have power point metrics on how they manage to get 50,000 bbl/d of crude oil to the market without ANY western support??!!. cause, you know Russia ain't helping the enemies of Bashar al- Assad I mean, These Goat Herding MFer's can't figure out how to use a safety razor, let alone a flush toilet.... But, we're supposed to believe this shitshow??? so , who is helping them?? Must be the TQM training the White Dragon Society gave them! hahahah//

sandsjames
12-17-2014, 04:53 PM
General consensus is a widely misused phrase, admittedly redundant. Like CAC Card. I wouldn't correct that. I also don't correct people when they use irregardless. I am also going to assume you used repetitively redundant on purpose. If my use of the phrase had fundamentally changed a fact I was stating then you should have corrected me. Did it do that?

When someone cites that ALL situations resulted from a particular circumstance when that isn't true then I point that out. If that is being petty I will continue to be so.I think you understood the intent of my...uh...AAs post...and went on to defer from the real topic by condemning his generalization.

TJMAC77SP
12-17-2014, 04:55 PM
Now back to the thread topic.

I think Garkhal has over-simplified this reaction in Australia. It was a valid and humane reaction to any unjustified reaction by a minority to the traditional garb worn by Muslim women. I agree with the I'll Ride With You movement. It is a great reaction and shows again a difference between us and those minority of Muslims that would twist their religion into the abortion that we see played out on the news everyday.

There was a similar display in Canada in the wake of the attack at the war memorial and parliament. A couple of activists attempted to show how people treat Muslims different in similar situations and one got their nose bloodied proving exactly the opposite.

One disappointment I had in the wake of 9/11 was the incidents of violence and vandalism at mosques and Islamic community centers. It doesn't portray an accurate picture of us.

TJMAC77SP
12-17-2014, 05:03 PM
Ithink you understood the intent of my...uh...AAs post...and went on to deferfrom the real topic by condemning his generalization.

Now it seems you are using interesting words. There was hardly a condemnation and it was hardly a 'deferment' (I will let that one go).

If we take AA's post literally and then someone were to post something which contradicts that. For example the Fort Dix wannbe attackers were actually found out via internet postings and not from a fellow Muslim informant. A third poster then disagrees with that and cites AA's post that ALL FBI sting operations against would-be Muslim attacks were the result of informants from the community. Is my correction still 'deferring' from the topic?

sandsjames
12-17-2014, 05:03 PM
Now back to the thread topic.

I think Garkhal has over-simplified this reaction in Australia. It was a valid and humane reaction to any unjustified reaction by a minority to the traditional garb worn by Muslim women. I agree with the I'll Ride With You movement. It is a great reaction and shows again a difference between us and those minority of Muslims that would twist their religion into the abortion that we see played out on the news everyday.

There was a similar display in Canada in the wake of the attack at the war memorial and parliament. A couple of activists attempted to show how people treat Muslims different in similar situations and one got their nose bloodied proving exactly the opposite.

One disappointment I had in the wake of 9/11 was the incidents of violence and vandalism at mosques and Islamic community centers. It doesn't portray an accurate picture of us.It's because when Muhammad Ali punches Glass Joe in the mouth, nobody cares. But when he cheap shots Joe Frazier, people pay attention.

TJMAC77SP
12-17-2014, 05:04 PM
Rainmaker has a question. So, When ISIS puts out it's 2014 annual report in .pdf format do you think they'll have power point metrics on how they manage to get 50,000 bbl/d of crude oil to the market without ANY western support??!!. cause, you know Russia ain't helping the enemies of Bashar al- Assad I mean, These Goat Herding MFer's can't figure out how to use a safety razor, let alone a flush toilet.... But, we're supposed to believe this shitshow??? so , who is helping them?? Must be the TQM training the White Dragon Society gave them! hahahah//

Rainmaker. I am truly missing your point here.

sandsjames
12-17-2014, 05:11 PM
Now it seems you are using interesting words. There was hardly a condemnation andit was hardly a 'deferment' (I will let that one go).

If we take AA's post literally and then someone were to post something whichcontradicts that. For example the Fort Dix wannbe attackers were actuallyfound out via internet postings and not from a fellow Muslim informant. Athird poster then disagrees with that and cites AA's post that ALL FBI sting operations against would-be Muslim attacks were the result of informants from the community. Is my correction still 'deferring' from the topic?


Deter...my bad. I prefer it with the "F" instead of the "T" because it's worth 3 more points in both Scrabble and Words With Friends (and that's if you only use it on a single letter/single word space).

What your correction does is distract from the point, so it turns into the usual online argument like we are currently having. This isn't a think tank. We aren't a subcommittee that is going to solve the worlds problems. You can infer what you choose, but it makes for much more substantial conversation if you focus on the point instead of on the phrasing.

I remember my mom telling me, when I was just knee high to a grasshopper, that if I didn't do my homework I was NEVER going to be allowed out with my friends. Even as a child I understood what she meant.

Rainmaker
12-17-2014, 05:27 PM
Not really any point TJ.... But, Last night about 3 AM Rainmaker was Freebasing Red Bulls and searching the dark recesses his mind's eye for the answer to life's more complex questions and this thought from the I AM just popped into his head....how do they (ISIL) get their oil to the market on their own?

TJMAC77SP
12-17-2014, 05:38 PM
Not really any point TJ.... But, Last night about 3 AM Rainmaker was Freebasing Red Bulls and searching the dark recesses his mind's eye for the answer to life's more complex questions and this thought from the I AM just popped into his head....how do they (ISIL) get their oil to the market on their own?

They don't. Anymore than Saddam did when he ran Iraq under the embargos.

TJMAC77SP
12-17-2014, 05:40 PM
Deter...my bad. I prefer it with the "F" instead of the "T" because it's worth 3 more points in both Scrabble and Words With Friends (and that's if you only use it on a single letter/single word space).

What your correction does is distract from the point, so it turns into the usual online argument like we are currently having. This isn't a think tank. We aren't a subcommittee that is going to solve the worlds problems. You can infer what you choose, but it makes for much more substantial conversation if you focus on the point instead of on the phrasing.

I remember my mom telling me, when I was just knee high to a grasshopper, that if I didn't do my homework I was NEVER going to be allowed out with my friends. Even as a child I understood what she meant.

You got it. If you want to believe that my pointing out AA’sincorrect statement deterred from the point so be it. I am notinterested in a multi-page back and forth with no results at all.

sandsjames
12-17-2014, 05:43 PM
You got it. If you want to believe that my pointing out AA’sincorrect statement deterred from the point so be it. I am notinterested in a multi-page back and forth with no results at all.

It did deter because we've now posted about it how many times? While remaining off topic?

And you must be interested, as you've been taking part.

TJMAC77SP
12-17-2014, 05:55 PM
It did deter because we've now posted about it how many times? While remaining off topic?

And you must be interested, as you've been taking part.

Ok, evidently my conceding on this ridiculous back and forth isn't good enough. Imagine if instead of this pointless bullshit AA had just said, "correct not ALL FBI stings have been a result of Muslim informants and you hadn't jumped on the wagon with this multi-post offering. Of course conversely I could have just ignored AA's incorrect statement. So which is more pointless, going back and forth over a minor issue or pointing out a minor error in the first place?

sandsjames
12-17-2014, 05:56 PM
Ok, evidently my conceding on this ridiculous back and forth isn't good enough. Imagine if instead of this pointless bullshit AA had just said, "correct not ALL FBI stings have been a result of Muslim informants and you hadn't jumped on the wagon with this multi-post offering. Of course conversely I could have just ignored AA's incorrect statement. So which is more pointless, going back and forth over a minor issue or pointing out a minor error in the first place?

Last word...

Rainmaker
12-17-2014, 06:01 PM
Nope, Post Gulf war 1. Iraq was allowed to sell oil on the world's market . Rainmaker even spent some time at the Zaku MCC way back in 1996 supporting UNSCOM Inspection team, which was part of the deal. Oil for food.

Iraq was not a failed state under Sadaam. Iraq had Western expertise in the country to get the oil to market, back in Feb Iraq production was the highest it's been in 30 years. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579438860227481506 and Gas was $3.70 a gallon.

So again. Iraq is a failed state. They're no longer producing but, oil prices are dropping like a rock? So, The story is that ISIS uses smuggled oil to fund itself. If that's the case, somebody has to be helping them get it to market. Pretty sure it ain't the West and it ain't Russia, cause they're allied with Assad and low oil prices are crushing them. so how do they (ISIS) do it? If that's how they fund themselves and we want to get rid of them, than why don't we just take out the means of production? Rainmaker hasn't stepped foot in Iraq since to 2007, and surely things have changed. But, He find it hard to believe this ISIS story.

TJMAC77SP
12-17-2014, 06:09 PM
Nope, Post Gulf war 1. Iraq was allowed to sell oil on the world's market . Rainmaker even spent some time at the Zaku MCC way back in 1996 supporting UNSCOM Inspection team, which was part of the deal. Oil for food.

Iraq was not a failed state under Sadaam. Iraq had Western expertise in the country to get the oil to market, back in Feb Iraq production was the highest it's been in 30 years. http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702304914904579438860227481506 and Gas was $3.70 a gallon.

So again. Iraq is a failed state. They're no longer producing but, oil prices are dropping like a rock? So, The story is that ISIS uses smuggled oil to fund itself. If that's the case, somebody has to be helping them get it to market. Pretty sure it ain't the West and it ain't Russia, cause they're allied with Assad and low oil prices are crushing them. so how do they (ISIS) do it? If that's how they fund themselves than why don't we just take out the means of production?

Saddam's allowed sales of oil were a fraction of what he was actually selling. The simple answer is the black market.

I don't know the answer on the oil price drop. I find it a paradox that although this is good news to American consumers it may have longer term negative impacts (if the 'experts' are to be believed).

As to taking out the oil I suppose the answer is that the environmental impact will outweigh the benefit of cutting off their funding. Also, I am sure there is thought to the future without ISIS (or ISIL or AEIOU or whatever we are calling them now) and having the infrastructure intact and available.

Rainmaker
12-17-2014, 06:23 PM
Black market. Yes. that's what they say. They captured the oil infrastructure. you need technical expertise to run the refineries. where does that come from in a failed state? what they were just hanging around and these 8th Century barbarians overran and enslaved them? this whole thing got started when 50K fighters flashmobbed Syria on twitter? Rainmaker's by no means an Obama fan. But, the best thing he has done is get us out (somewhat) of these quagmire countries. Please excuse the thread hijack,

Rollyn01
12-17-2014, 06:24 PM
Saddam's allowed sales of oil were a fraction of what he was actually selling. The simple answer is the black market.

I don't know the answer on the oil price drop. I find it a paradox that although this is good news to American consumers it may have longer term negative impacts (if the 'experts' are to be believed).

As to taking out the oil I suppose the answer is that the environmental impact will outweigh the benefit of cutting off their funding. Also, I am sure there is thought to the future without ISIS (or ISIL or AEIOU or whatever we are calling them now) and having the infrastructure intact and available.

Back in '03, when my unit first arrived, we set up Camp Marlboro. It was the only cigarette factory in the country. This actually afforded us some protection as no one wanted to destroy such a "useful" facility. We did our best to get some of the locals back to work as part of the rebuilding effort, but as soon as the unit left, the place was ransacked by looters. Most likely, the same might go for ISIS/ISIL/MNOP when it comes to the oil refineries.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-17-2014, 06:34 PM
Ok, evidently my conceding on this ridiculous back and forth isn't good enough. Imagine if instead of this pointless bullshit AA had just said, "correct not ALL FBI stings have been a result of Muslim informants and you hadn't jumped on the wagon with this multi-post offering. Of course conversely I could have just ignored AA's incorrect statement. So which is more pointless, going back and forth over a minor issue or pointing out a minor error in the first place?

You are in over your head on this. If you can't understand why SJ was giving you a hard time over this, you must miss the vast majority of the jokes that are made on this forum.

Are you so uptight that you missed it?

TJMAC77SP
12-17-2014, 07:04 PM
You are in over your head on this. If you can't understand why SJ was giving you a hard time over this, you must miss the vast majority of the jokes that are made on this forum.

Are you so uptight that you missed it?

It's funny but I think the exact same thing about you (the uptightness). I had a Carnac the Magnificent moment when I typed my post about your error and sure enough I wasn't disappointed.

What's even funnier is you trying to paint SJ's many posts as jokes. That is actually funny.

garhkal
12-17-2014, 08:36 PM
What would you prefer they do?

Burn down mosques?


How's about tell the moderates to stop coddling their extremist co-workers. How's about show tollerance themselves.




In the US, plenty of Muslims have informed on members of their own mosques for having radical views and making statements about wanting to attack the US.

All of those FBI sting operations of people trying to buy bomb making materials, or being duped into plots by FBI agents posing as Al Q'aida members involved informants from the Muslim community.

Got links to prove that?


I think AA is right on this (of course I would agree with myself). There are plenty of Muslims who speak out against this sort of thing all around the world. The difference is that the media doesn't publicize it. It's not surprising, though, that a Jewish ran media wouldn't want to show Muslims in a positive light. Nomsayin'?

When you see plenty of muslims out in the street cheering that American's died, though it seems to contraction their "speaking out against extremists'.. like right after 9/11, or the bombings in Bali and london.
Kind of hard for me to believe they are 'sorry, and dislike their extremist brethren', when we see them out in force chanting down with the great satan and cheering for the 1000s who died.


I understand what's being said here; problem is, this implies just because two or more people share the same faith, that they're all responsible for each other's (mis)behavior. Requiring the "Muslim community" to apologize for the ones who misbehave also engenders the judgment of Muslims as a collective and not as individuals. Those are definitely things that we would never want to wish upon ourselves.

Is that not what Sharpton and co are pushing in the wake of these shootings in Fergusun and cleveland. That "All whites cops are racist"?
So why is it ok to hold all whites up as being racist, but not ok to hold all muslims up when their own go and do stuff like this (or that mass shooting of a school in Pakistan)??


I agree however two facts are at play, which regardless of fairness or complete accuracy are still facts.

The perception is that ALL Muslims support this violence. That is silly of course but a lot of factors contribute to the perception and many are not unfair. I lived through a similar (but on a lower level of course) situation during the 70's in Boston with perceived support to the IRA. The general consensus was that all Irish-American supported the IRA. This again was silly but when several small facts were taken into consideration, the perception wasn't all that far-fetched. There was definite support (I personally saw many collection cans for NORAID) and very little condemnation of the violence but much teeth-gnashing about the conditions at Maze Prison

The sheer volume and level of violence (the attack in Pakistan yesterday being a good -if that is an appropriate word to use for such a vile act - example of this). People just can't help but start painting with a very large brush. One group estimates that there is an Islamic-inspired act of violence committed every five hours around the world.

Many Muslim organizations (CAIR for one) have been linked to providing support to groups declared to be terrorist organizations (HAMAS) and have traditionally been very slow to condemn or completely silent on violence committed in the name of the religion which they exist to support.

This is a simplistic explanation but I can certainly understand why people have these reactions and attitudes

Which i part of what i am trying to get at. The Islamic community as a whole is slow to 'denounce' these acts, and in many areas seems to revel in them. So why is it wrong to 'paint' the entire Muslim community with the brush that they all support it'?
Combine that with, in many instances where westerners have been killed BY these islamic extremists, where has the outpouring of support been from the Islamic community? Where as the understanding and tolerance been?


Rainmaker has a question. So, When ISIS puts out it's 2014 annual report in .pdf format do you think they'll have power point metrics on how they manage to get 50,000 bbl/d of crude oil to the market without ANY western support??!!. cause, you know Russia ain't helping the enemies of Bashar al- Assad I mean, These Goat Herding MFer's can't figure out how to use a safety razor, let alone a flush toilet.... But, we're supposed to believe this shitshow??? so , who is helping them?? Must be the TQM training the White Dragon Society gave them! hahahah//

Good point. Someone in the world has to be helping them, same with all the arms they are buying.

Rainmaker
12-18-2014, 02:20 AM
http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/576189/20141216/isis-scorpion-bombs-mosul-terrorism.htm

So, supposedly now the Petroleum Engineers at "ISIS" have developed scorpion bombs...no really folks. you can't make this shit up

Absinthe Anecdote
12-18-2014, 04:14 AM
What's even funnier is you trying to paint SJ's many posts as jokes. That is actually funny.

Well, since SJ has been running a gag for the past couple of days that my account is one of his alternate accounts, I'd say that I'm right about the joke being over your head.

Especially, when I asked SJ to yell at you for being petty, and he obliged.

PS

Look at SJ's new signature block.

sandsjames
12-18-2014, 11:37 AM
Well, since SJ has been running a gag for the past couple of days that my account is one of his alternate accounts, I'd say that I'm right about the joke being over your head.

Especially, when I asked SJ to yell at you for being petty, and he obliged.

PS

Look at SJ's new signature block.

Nice...the admitting that the me, I, you, we thing is a gag will keep people confused, thinking maybe it's TOO obvious. I'm genius.

Rollyn01
12-18-2014, 01:39 PM
Nice...the admitting that the me, I, you, we thing is a gag will keep people confused, thinking maybe it's TOO obvious. I'm genius.

You two are horrible. :D

Rollyn01
12-18-2014, 01:52 PM
http://au.ibtimes.com/articles/576189/20141216/isis-scorpion-bombs-mosul-terrorism.htm

So, supposedly now the Petroleum Engineers at "ISIS" have developed scorpion bombs...no really folks. you can't make this shit up

Is it really that hard to stomp on them? Or even hit them with a broom or shovel? If only these people was a bit more educated, a lot of ISIS's power would be severely weakened. I guess that's why they ban most of the people from be going to school. How sad. Maybe we should sent school teachers instead of troopers. Just a thought.

TJMAC77SP
12-18-2014, 02:58 PM
Well, since SJ has been running a gag for the past couple of days that my account is one of his alternate accounts, I'd say that I'm right about the joke being over your head.

Especially, when I asked SJ to yell at you for being petty, and he obliged.

PS

Look at SJ's new signature block.


Nice...the admitting that the me, I, you, we thing is a gag will keep people confused,thinking maybe it's TOO obvious. I'm genius.

I see, ya got me. Another win for your spreadsheet. Wait, this win should go to SJ. Or you, or…….oh forget it. I’ll just ignore everything SJ said defending your error. Carry on.

Rainmaker
12-18-2014, 03:17 PM
http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/isisscor.html

ISIS and the7 Scorpions..... The name "ISIS" is directly tied to the Sun and Isis cults of ancient Egypt.... The Goddess ISIS symbolizes Primal Maternity.....

The Mystery Religions in the Roman Empire were an early competitor of Christianity prior to Constantine's Conversion..... ISIS was one of the Mystery Cults.....

Words mean things (John 1:1)..... The name is no Coincidence.....The initiated communicate through symbology.... numerology..... There is nothing new under the sun...... Greed is one of the 7 deadliest..... DIS AUGUSTI]S TIBERIÉUM[...PO]NTIUS PILATUS[...PRAEF]ECTUS IUDA[EA]E[...FECIT D]E[DICAVIT]....Rainmaker is giving you the roadmap....You are no longer Naïve....

Transmitting from the Bug out location//Your Brother in Christ Jesus.... Rainmaker Out//

Absinthe Anecdote
12-18-2014, 03:33 PM
http://www.ancientegyptonline.co.uk/isisscor.html

ISIS and the7 Scorpions..... The name "ISIS" is directly tied to the Sun and Isis cults of ancient Egypt.... The Goddess ISIS symbolizes Primal Maternity.....

The Mystery Religions in the Roman Empire were an early competitor of Christianity prior to Constantine's Conversion..... ISIS was one of the Mystery Cults.....

Words mean things (John 1:1)..... The name is no Coincidence.....The initiated communicate through symbology.... numerology..... There is nothing new under the sun...... Greed is one of the 7 deadliest..... DIS AUGUSTI]S TIBERIÉUM[...PO]NTIUS PILATUS[...PRAEF]ECTUS IUDA[EA]E[...FECIT D]E[DICAVIT]....Rainmaker is giving you the roadmap....You are no longer Naïve....

Transmitting from the Bug out location//Your Brother in Christ Jesus.... Rainmaker Out//

You are forgetting about the prophet Zorroaster and the first one true God, Ahura Mazda (Illuminating Wisdom).

sandsjames
12-18-2014, 03:50 PM
You are forgetting about the prophet Zorroaster and the first one true God, Ahura Mazda (Illuminating Wisdom).

And I don't have to tell you, the Ahura was my first vehicle. The rotary engine kinda sucked, but great gas mileage and very comfortable.

Rollyn01
12-18-2014, 04:06 PM
And I don't have to tell you, the Ahura was my first vehicle. The rotary engine kinda sucked, but great gas mileage and very comfortable.

Lt. Uhura was hot. I don't care what anyone says, I'd bed her down in a second. Not now though, that's kind of stretching it.

sandsjames
12-18-2014, 04:07 PM
Lt. Uhura was hot. I don't care what anyone says, I'd bed her down in a second. Not now though, that's kind of stretching it.

I think "that" has already been "stretched" enough.

Rollyn01
12-18-2014, 04:21 PM
I think "that" has already been "stretched" enough.

Lo and behold, The "Lt. Uhura Rubber Sex Doll". You too can Captain Kirk her like all the ways you have imagined in your filthy mind. Can stretch to fit "almost all" sizes. She'll bend over backwards like all good LTs do like a tree in a hurricane.

Rollyn01
12-18-2014, 04:25 PM
But back on topic, I would really like to know what is it going to take for the majority of the non-violent, peace-loving Muslims to just come out and say that these jackasses don't represent the masses? I mean damn, the uncle of one of the Boston Marathon bombers came right out and said that his nephew was a coward and completely disowned him. Where is that type of opposition?

Absinthe Anecdote
12-18-2014, 04:25 PM
And I don't have to tell you, the Ahura was my first vehicle. The rotary engine kinda sucked, but great gas mileage and very comfortable.

True, but I liked it because it was the first monotheistic religious vehicle. It inspired all the later ones, to include the three Abrahamic religious vehicles.

And we all know how fucked up those later models are...

Christianity is the worst, serious logic problems plague the circuit board, and the owner's manual was cobbled together from so many unreliable sources, that you can't help but doubt the whole thing.

Still, you don't have to worry about kosher or halal fuel with the Christian model.

And at least it isn't prone to violent explosions like the Islamic model.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-18-2014, 04:29 PM
But back on topic, I would really like to know what is it going to take for the majority of the non-violent, peace-loving Muslims to just come out and say that these jackasses don't represent the masses? I mean damn, the uncle of one of the Boston Marathon bombers came right out and said that his nephew was a coward and completely disowned him. Where is that type of opposition?

How hard have you looked for these voices?

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/muslims-condemn-isis.html

Rollyn01
12-18-2014, 04:33 PM
And at least it isn't prone to violent explosions like the Islamic model.

I'm just mad that people said it was a carefully designed feature meant to keep the entire vehicle together. What the hell?:eek:

Rusty Jones
12-18-2014, 04:34 PM
True, but I liked it because it was the first monotheistic religious vehicle. It inspired all the later ones, to include the three Abrahamic religious vehicles.

And we all know how fucked up those later models are...

Christianity is the worst, serious logic problems plague the circuit board, and the owner's manual was cobbled together from so many unreliable sources, that you can't help but doubt the whole thing.

Still, you don't have to worry about kosher or halal fuel with the Christian model.

And at least it isn't prone to violent explosions like the Islamic model.

Well, the Abrahamic faiths have always been violent. It's right in the Tanakh / Old Testamant; with the Isrealites starting wars over religion. The war with the Phillistines, for example? Samson started that war.

Interestingly enough, Yahweh didn't always come out on top. Here's an example of his inability to defeat Chemosh (who, according to the Canaanite pantheon, is Yahweh's brother - and this was also believed by Jews, until the exile from Babylon in 600 BC):

http://armstrongdelusion.com/2011/04/01/wrath-of-chemosh-too-much-for-yahweh-area-deity-says/

sandsjames
12-18-2014, 04:37 PM
True, but I liked it because it was the first monotheistic religious vehicle. It inspired all the later ones, to include the three Abrahamic religious vehicles.

And we all know how fucked up those later models are...

Christianity is the worst, serious logic problems plague the circuit board, and the owner's manual was cobbled together from so many unreliable sources, that you can't help but doubt the whole thing.

Still, you don't have to worry about kosher or halal fuel with the Christian model.

And at least it isn't prone to violent explosions like the Islamic model.

Luckily, with the Christian model, no matter how fucked up it gets, all you need to do is take it through a car wash and it's as good as new, as if there was never any damage.

Rollyn01
12-18-2014, 04:40 PM
How hard have you looked for these voices?

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/muslims-condemn-isis.html

I try not to hear too many voices because my doctor told me they might be telling me to do bad things.


Now, with that silliness aside, thanks for the link. Though it does bear the question, is the U.S. media intentionally doing so in an effort to help paint the broad brush? If so, we're in for a world of suck. What happened to 60 Minutes with Tom Brokaw?

sandsjames
12-18-2014, 04:41 PM
Well, the Abrahamic faiths have always been violent. It's right in the Tanakh / Old Testamant; with the Isrealites starting wars over religion. The war with the Phillistines, for example? Samson started that war.

Interestingly enough, Yahweh didn't always come out on top. Here's an example of his inability to defeat Chemosh (who, according to the Canaanite pantheon, is Yahweh's brother - and this was also believed by Jews, until the exile from Babylon in 600 BC):

http://armstrongdelusion.com/2011/04/01/wrath-of-chemosh-too-much-for-yahweh-area-deity-says/

Ah, yes...the "true" version of the bible as determined by one man.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-18-2014, 04:43 PM
Well, the Abrahamic faiths have always been violent. It's right in the Tanakh / Old Testamant; with the Isrealites starting wars over religion. The war with the Phillistines, for example? Samson started that war.

Interestingly enough, Yahweh didn't always come out on top. Here's an example of his inability to defeat Chemosh (who, according to the Canaanite pantheon, is Yahweh's brother - and this was also believed by Jews, until the exile from Babylon in 600 BC):

http://armstrongdelusion.com/2011/04/01/wrath-of-chemosh-too-much-for-yahweh-area-deity-says/

Apparently the Old Testament Christian God has trouble defeating armies with iron chariots too.

Judges 1:19 New International Version (NIV)

19 The Lord was with the men of Judah. They took possession of the hill country, but they were unable to drive the people from the plains, because they had chariots fitted with iron.

Rusty Jones
12-18-2014, 04:49 PM
Ah, yes...the "true" version of the bible as determined by one man.

What "version" of the Bible are you talking about?

The Tanakh tells the Isrealites side of the story. The Mesha Stele is the one glimpse we have into the Moabite side of the story.

Rollyn01
12-18-2014, 04:52 PM
Luckily, with the Christian model, no matter how fucked up it gets, all you need to do is take it through a car wash and it's as good as new, as if there was never any damage.

The real problem is the dealers. Some of them seems like they are happily depressed when trying to make the sale (JW), highly excited and will go on and on about the numerous options but forget about the standards (Protestant, Baptist) or high-pressure sales pitch with only the standards but no options and you better have spotless credit or they'll give you the lemon on purpose (Catholicism).

Fuck it, I'll just take the bus(agnostic), train (atheism), bike (Buddhism) Or maybe I'll just walk (spiritually non-religious).

Rainmaker
12-18-2014, 05:23 PM
Rainmaker’s quick once over of the The top of the page Rusty linked (Armstrong’s Delusion) starts out with “the truth will set you free....” taken from John 8:32

The rest of the verse is:

"If you continue in My word, then you are truly disciples of Mine; and you will KNOW the truth, and the truth will set you free”

That first part is always the part that luciferian trans-humanists purposefully leave out.

Rainmaker
12-18-2014, 05:28 PM
The real problem is the dealers. Some of them seems like they are happily depressed when trying to make the sale (JW), highly excited and will go on and on about the numerous options but forget about the standards (Protestant, Baptist) or high-pressure sales pitch with only the standards but no options and you better have spotless credit or they'll give you the lemon on purpose (Catholicism).

Fuck it, I'll just take the bus(agnostic), train (atheism), bike (Buddhism) Or maybe I'll just walk (spiritually non-religious).

What would following technocratic social engineering by a parasitic initiated ruling class, where androgyny through alchemy is the ultimate goal for mankind be called?

sandsjames
12-18-2014, 05:29 PM
What "version" of the Bible are you talking about?

The Tanakh tells the Isrealites side of the story. The Mesha Stele is the one glimpse we have into the Moabite side of the story.

I'm speaking of Armstrong and the World Church of God, the "one true" version.

sandsjames
12-18-2014, 05:31 PM
The real problem is the dealers. Some of them seems like they are happily depressed when trying to make the sale (JW), highly excited and will go on and on about the numerous options but forget about the standards (Protestant, Baptist) or high-pressure sales pitch with only the standards but no options and you better have spotless credit or they'll give you the lemon on purpose (Catholicism).

Fuck it, I'll just take the bus(agnostic), train (atheism), bike (Buddhism) Or maybe I'll just walk (spiritually non-religious).

Of course the bus, train, bike, and walking all have a much easier path in a downward direction and struggle much more with making it to the top of the hill than a car.

Rusty Jones
12-18-2014, 05:58 PM
I'm speaking of Armstrong and the World Church of God, the "one true" version.

You DO realize that this is a website AGAINST Herbert Armstrong, right?

Rainmaker
12-18-2014, 05:59 PM
I try not to hear too many voices because my doctor told me they might be telling me to do bad things.


Now, with that silliness aside, thanks for the link. Though it does bear the question, is the U.S. media intentionally doing so in an effort to help paint the broad brush? If so, we're in for a world of suck. What happened to 60 Minutes with Tom Brokaw?

How dare You question the motives of Tom Brokaw at 60 minutes and the rest of the Mainstream Media??

Don't you know that 30,000 hardened ISIS fighters (pay no attention to the similarity of Name with the Egyptian Goddess or Israeli Intelligence service it's coincidental) just spontaneously emerged from the desert and they fund their army by selling captured oil, which, they somehow transport 50,000 Barrels a day of crude through the desert and mountains of Turkey, with no help from anyone but Prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon him) and a few camels.

These mid-evil barbarians are currently terrorizing the world with high tech 1st century "Scorpion" bombs and all patriotic Americans need to give up our constitutional rights and spend trillions of dollars to further bankrupt ourselves because this death cult hates us for our freedom. It doesn't make sense to secure the border or check ID's of non-citizen's though because, that would be racist and we are nation of immigrants that have all benefited from our white privilege.

sandsjames
12-18-2014, 06:01 PM
You DO realize that this is a website AGAINST Herbert Armstrong, right?I did not as I can't get to the site from my work computer...thanks for clarifying.

Rollyn01
12-18-2014, 06:28 PM
How dare You question the motives of Tom Brokaw at 60 minutes and the rest of the Mainstream Media??

Don't you know that 30,000 hardened ISIS fighters (pay no attention to the similarity of Name with the Egyptian Goddess or Israeli Intelligence service it's coincidental) just spontaneously emerged from the desert and they fund their army by selling captured oil, which, they somehow transport 50,000 Barrels a day of crude through the desert and mountains of Turkey, with no help from anyone but Prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon him) and a few camels.

These mid-evil barbarians are currently terrorizing the world with high tech 1st century "Scorpion" bombs and all patriotic Americans need to give up our constitutional rights and spend trillions of dollars to further bankrupt ourselves because this death cult hates us for our freedom. It doesn't make sense to secure the border or check ID's of non-citizen's though because, that would be racist and we are nation of immigrants that have all benefited from our white privilege.

ZZZzzz... ZZZzzz... :snorts: Huh? What? Bacon? Of course I would have some. Extra crispy please.

Rollyn01
12-18-2014, 06:29 PM
What would following technocratic social engineering by a parasitic initiated ruling class, where androgyny through alchemy is the ultimate goal for mankind be called?

School bus?

Rollyn01
12-18-2014, 06:36 PM
Of course the bus, train, bike, and walking all have a much easier path in a downward direction and struggle much more with making it to the top of the hill than a car.

Maybe for the bike and walking, but then you really don't have to put that much effort into getting up that hill (self-moderation, moral compass, enlightenment). Problem with the car is, going up the hill too fast might cause a collision with anyone else trying to come up the hill in the opposite direction (every religious war known to humanity).

sandsjames
12-18-2014, 06:40 PM
Maybe for the bike and walking, but then you really don't have to put that much effort into getting up that hill (self-moderation, moral compass, enlightenment). Problem with the car is, going up the hill too fast might cause a collision with anyone else trying to come up the hill in the opposite direction (every religious war known to humanity).

This analogy is getting stupid, I think we can agree, but I'm trying to figure out how two vehicles can be going up the hill and have a collision from different directions.

Rainmaker
12-18-2014, 06:49 PM
The real problem is the dealers. Some of them seems like they are happily depressed when trying to make the sale (JW), highly excited and will go on and on about the numerous options but forget about the standards (Protestant, Baptist) or high-pressure sales pitch with only the standards but no options and you better have spotless credit or they'll give you the lemon on purpose (Catholicism).

Fuck it, I'll just take the bus(agnostic), train (atheism), bike (Buddhism) Or maybe I'll just walk (spiritually non-religious).

The JW's can be very helpful If you play it right . I once, had 2 of them come by asking to "witness" to me while I was re sodding my yard. I said sure, if you don't mind giving me a hand while we talk about it.

Those Happy Warriors literally spent 5 hours working for me that first day. We eventually laid 15 pallets of St. Augustine in the Hot Florida Sun. After that they'd come by once a week and I'd have them help out with various tasks I needed done around the house. Scraping paint, pressure washing, trimming trees whatever I needed. They were big help because, I was renovating an old farmhouse. They were even better than the illegal alien, day laborers that you'd find "hiding in the shadows" in front of your Home Depot. Great people really. The big problem though is that they are like stray cats and If you feed them, they'll never leave. It got very awkward having to close the blinds and pretend I wasn't home. One time they caught me running away and I had to pretend like I didn't remember who they were. After that they moved on...

Rollyn01
12-18-2014, 06:53 PM
This analogy is getting stupid, I think we can agree, but I'm trying to figure out how two vehicles can be going up the hill and have a collision from different directions.

Probably because you typically can't see what's coming over the hill unless it's too late (ignorance). As long as every vehicle stays in their lane/route, no collision would occur. But as we all know, some tend to be reckless and/or think they own the entire road.

Rollyn01
12-18-2014, 06:54 PM
The JW's can be very helpful If you play it right . I once, had 2 of them come by asking to "witness" to me while I was re sodding my yard. I said sure, if you don't mind giving me a hand while we talk about it.

Those Happy Warriors literally spent 5 hours working for me that first day. We eventually laid 15 pallets of St. Augustine in the Hot Florida Sun. After that they'd come by once a week and I'd have them help out with various tasks I needed done around the house. Scraping paint, pressure washing, trimming trees whatever I needed. They were big help because, I was renovating an old farmhouse. They were even better than the illegal day laborers that you'd find in front of the Home Depot. Great people really. The big problem though is that they are like stray cats and If you feed them, they'll never leave. It got very awkward having to close the blinds and pretend I wasn't home. One time they caught me running away and I had to pretend like I didn't remember who they were. After that they moved on...

You sir deserve props for that. That is some awesome stuff.

Rusty Jones
12-18-2014, 07:18 PM
The JW's can be very helpful If you play it right . I once, had 2 of them come by asking to "witness" to me while I was re sodding my yard. I said sure, if you don't mind giving me a hand while we talk about it.

Those Happy Warriors literally spent 5 hours working for me that first day. We eventually laid 15 pallets of St. Augustine in the Hot Florida Sun. After that they'd come by once a week and I'd have them help out with various tasks I needed done around the house. Scraping paint, pressure washing, trimming trees whatever I needed. They were big help because, I was renovating an old farmhouse. They were even better than the illegal alien, day laborers that you'd find "hiding in the shadows" in front of your Home Depot. Great people really. The big problem though is that they are like stray cats and If you feed them, they'll never leave. It got very awkward having to close the blinds and pretend I wasn't home. One time they caught me running away and I had to pretend like I didn't remember who they were. After that they moved on...

You scared of Jehovah's Witness, bro? You're the LAST person on this thread that I would expect that from!

Me? Fuck that! My last encounter with Jehovah's Witnesses is when a pair came to my door last summer, and the woman handed me a tract. I was in my pajama pants and no shirt. I was silent the whole time; not a single word came out of my mouth. While she was talking, I stared her dead in the face. While staring at her and keeping my eyes set on hers, I put the tract in my mouth, bit off a piece, and started chewing. She then stopped, and asked "Are... are you... eating that?"

She and the guy she was with then turned around walked away.

And, by the way, that's one of my more tame incidents with JW's. Sometimes, I'll engage them in conversation, but I'll cuss when talking to them. Not cussing AT them, but just cussing like I'm bullshitting with co-workers. You should SEE the looks on their faces!

I think that they expect people to be intimidated by them. I make sure that I don't get aggressive with them because, in my estimation, they'll perceive that to be a sign of fear too... which is still ultimately a win for them.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-18-2014, 07:24 PM
This analogy is getting stupid, I think we can agree, but I'm trying to figure out how two vehicles can be going up the hill and have a collision from different directions.

I agree, this is getting stupid.

Let's just talk about how dumb it is to call God perfect, and how fucking insanely dumb his plan is.

Genesis 6:6-7 New International Version (NIV)

6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.”

These two verses alone, should be enough to convince anyone that God isn't all knowing, and that he is a tremendous lunk head when it comes to problem solving.

Shouldn't he have known that when he decided to spare Noah and his family that human beings would just get corrupted again?

Why not just send Jesus down right then and there? What wait another 3000 years?

Since God is everywhere, I'll say it to his face, what a dumb, brutish thing it was to drown all those people so long ago.

Plus, drowning everybody except one family isn't very merciful. People need to quit calling God mercificul.

He is many things, but based on his deeds, merciful isn't one of them.

Dumbier still are modern day Chriatians who cherry pick the great flood story as one to tell to children. The animals on the ark and the rainbow at the end are what they focus on.

Never mind the genocide, and what that says about the character of their God. Nope, they never seem to ponder that very much.

Rollyn01
12-18-2014, 07:34 PM
I agree, this is getting stupid.

Let's just talk about how dumb it is to call God perfect, and how fucking insanely dumb his plan is.

Genesis 6:6-7 New International Version (NIV)

6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.”

These two verses alone, should be enough to convince anyone that God isn't all knowing, and that he is a tremendous lunk head when it comes to problem solving.

Shouldn't he have known that when he decided to spare Noah and his family that human beings would just get corrupted again?

Why not just send Jesus down right then and there? What wait another 3000 years?

Since God is everywhere, I'll say it to his face, what a dumb, brutish thing it was to drown all those people so long ago.

Plus, drowning everybody except one family isn't very merciful. People need to quit calling God mercificul.

He is many things, but based on his deeds, merciful isn't one of them.

Dumbier still are modern day Chriatians who cherry pick the great flood story as one to tell to children. The animals on the ark and the rainbow at the end are what they focus on.

Never mind the genocide, and what that says about the character of their God. Nope, they never seem to ponder that very much.

Are you trying to defend me or going on you crazy tirades again? If the former, thanks. If the latter... see this chair? Just take a seat. Don't mind the restraints. They're there for your protection. I affirm. If both... we'll beggars can't be choosers.

Rainmaker
12-18-2014, 07:38 PM
You scared of Jehovah's Witness, bro? You're the LAST person on this thread that I would expect that from!

Me? Fuck that! My last encounter with Jehovah's Witnesses is when a pair came to my door last summer, and the woman handed me a tract. I was in my pajama pants and no shirt. I was silent the whole time; not a single word came out of my mouth. While she was talking, I stared her dead in the face. While staring at her and keeping my eyes set on hers, I put the tract in my mouth, bit off a piece, and started chewing. She then stopped, and asked "Are... are you... eating that?"

She and the guy she was with then turned around walked away.

And, by the way, that's one of my more tame incidents with JW's. Sometimes, I'll engage them in conversation, but I'll cuss when talking to them. Not cussing AT them, but just cussing like I'm bullshitting with co-workers. You should SEE the looks on their faces!

I think that they expect people to be intimidated by them. I make sure that I don't get aggressive with them because, in my estimation, they'll perceive that to be a sign of fear too... which is still ultimately a win for them.

No, there was that sort of that creepy clown feeling. But, I wouldn't call it fear really. I just felt bad, because these guys really worked their asses off over a period of several months. After I retired from the Military, I'd taken every penny We had and bought an old abandoned Farm house on 15 acres. The property was all overgrown and At 43 years old, and my sons both grown and moved out and a house full of girls, There was a lot of a heavy lifting to be done to get it livable and I was feeling overwhelmed and wondering how I was going to do all this work that needed to be done. I basically chocked it up to them being a God send to help me in this time of need.

sort of like you using the Nasty practice girl with the 6 year old that walked around naked. cause she bought you gifts. Didn't you feel any remorse dumping her?

Absinthe Anecdote
12-18-2014, 07:57 PM
Are you trying to defend me or going on you crazy tirades again? If the former, thanks. If the latter... see this chair? Just take a seat. Don't mind the restraints. They're there for your protection. I affirm. If both... we'll beggars can't be choosers.

What is so crazy about my commentary on Genesis, Chapter 6 and how it speaks to God's character?

Rollyn01
12-18-2014, 08:04 PM
What is so crazy about my commentary on Genesis, Chapter 6 and how it speaks to God's character?

I thought you was trying to say that God is insane, there in lies the reason for the label "crazy". Actually, after reading it, I mistype. It should have said "your" instead of you. Sorry about that.

Rusty Jones
12-18-2014, 08:17 PM
The biggest mistake made when the Abrahamic God was invented was making him omnipotent and omniscent. That, right there, makes too many things in the Bible require explanation - a requirement that wouldn't be there were God not able to see, know, and do everything.

The second biggest mistake was making God more powerful than Satan. I mean, the Abrahamic faiths put Satan as a former angel who was once subordinate to God. Why doesn't God just snap his fingers and make Satan disappear? If they made God and Satan equal, everything would make more sense. It would explain how the standoff between God and Satan is lasting an eternity.

SomeRandomGuy
12-18-2014, 08:27 PM
How dare You question the motives of Tom Brokaw at 60 minutes and the rest of the Mainstream Media??

Don't you know that 30,000 hardened ISIS fighters (pay no attention to the similarity of Name with the Egyptian Goddess or Israeli Intelligence service it's coincidental) just spontaneously emerged from the desert and they fund their army by selling captured oil, which, they somehow transport 50,000 Barrels a day of crude through the desert and mountains of Turkey, with no help from anyone but Prophet Mohammed (Peace be upon him) and a few camels.

These mid-evil barbarians are currently terrorizing the world with high tech 1st century "Scorpion" bombs and all patriotic Americans need to give up our constitutional rights and spend trillions of dollars to further bankrupt ourselves because this death cult hates us for our freedom. It doesn't make sense to secure the border or check ID's of non-citizen's though because, that would be racist and we are nation of immigrants that have all benefited from our white privilege.

We are talking about the country of Iraq here. The people living in that country are willing to follow anything. The country has been at war for at least 30 years staright now. It's basically all they know at this point.


Woe Is Iraq: How can anything be left standing in Iraq?

During the 1980s, the United States backed Saddam Hussein and subsidized Iraq's government; then from about 1990 to 2003, worked feverishly to destroy Iraq's government, saying its advanced weapons made it a threat to international security; now the United States is working feverishly to support Iraq's government, including by selling it advanced weapons and sending back U.S. troops. How can a civil society form under constant bombardment?

Whatever one thinks of that sequence of events, just think about the degree of warfare Iraq has endured in the past 30 years. Iran and Iraq were at war from 1980 to 1988, a conflict that involved extensive use of chemical weapons and bombing of civilian areas, killed an estimated 1 million people and caused untold damages. From 1986 to 1988, Iraqi military forces systemically murdered ethnic Kurds in northern Iraq, including by shelling Kurdish civilian areas. In 1990, Iraq invaded Kuwait. In 1991, a U.S.-led coalition destroyed Iraq's army in Kuwait while extensively bombing Iraq, dropping about 88,500 tons of bombs, about 20 times the tonnage of the Dresden raid in World War II.

Through the early 1990s, Iraq's Sunni government bombed Kurdish and Shia towns, sometimes using chemical weapons. In June 1993, the United States fired cruise missiles into Iraq in retaliation for Hussein's attempted assassination of the elder George Bush. In 1998, the United States extensively bombed Iraq for violation of the United Nations agreements that ended the 1991 Gulf War. From 1999 to 2001, the Air Force and RAF regularly attacked Iraqi air-defense installations (sometimes using bombs containing no warhead, just concrete). In January and February of 2003, U.S. aircraft conducted an all-out bombing campaign against Iraq. In March 2003, U.S. Army and Marine units invaded Iraq, obliterating the country's army and destroying much of Baghdad and Basra. In 2004, the Marines staged offensives against Iraqi cities resisting U.S. control. From 2004 to 2007, the United States conducted at least 2,000 airstrike missions in Iraq. In 2007, the United States began a surge of soldiers and heavy weapons into Iraq. In 2011, most U.S. forces departed. In 2014, Sunni militias invaded Iraq, hoping to smash its now-Shia government, while Syrian warplanes bombed Iraq. In 2014 the United States began bombing Iraq again, sometimes picking targets in conjunction with Iranian militia.

How can there be any semblance of normalcy in Iraq? Any military-age males still alive? Any prospects for the young? And since all previous bombings of Iraq have led to more bombings, why should we think this series of attacks will fare any better? The 2003 invasion and its aftermath were rationalized partly as an effort to improve life in Iraq, which hasn't happened. Maybe there's still a threat there that is relevant to U.S. national security. All we can be sure of is that more bombing means more misery for average people in Iraq.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-18-2014, 08:36 PM
The biggest mistake made when the Abrahamic God was invented was making him omnipotent and omniscent. That, right there, makes too many things in the Bible require explanation - a requirement that wouldn't be there were God not able to see, know, and do everything.

The second biggest mistake was making God more powerful than Satan. I mean, the Abrahamic faiths put Satan as a former angel who was once subordinate to God. Why doesn't God just snap his fingers and make Satan disappear? If they made God and Satan equal, everything would make more sense. It would explain how the standoff between God and Satan is lasting an eternity.

I agree, what you just pointed out is a fundamental flaw in the very nature of the Abrahamic God.

The whole idea of it is just as deeply flawed as the Santa Claus story.

The fact that so many people believe in this nonsense is frightening.

Rollyn01
12-18-2014, 09:11 PM
I agree, what you just pointed out is a fundamental flaw in the very nature of the Abrahamic God.

The whole idea of it is just as deeply flawed as the Santa Claus story.

The fact that so many people believe in this nonsense is frightening.

I think it's just people finding an excuse for what a rational person would conclude as being strictly their fault. Blaming it on the supernatural gives them an out so that they can be absolved of any moral responsibility.

garhkal
12-18-2014, 09:19 PM
But back on topic, I would really like to know what is it going to take for the majority of the non-violent, peace-loving Muslims to just come out and say that these jackasses don't represent the masses? I mean damn, the uncle of one of the Boston Marathon bombers came right out and said that his nephew was a coward and completely disowned him. Where is that type of opposition?

My sentiments exactly. We often hear of Arab politicians decrying it, but we don't seem to hear (or see) it from the masses. I can't remember any Islamic Immam speaking out against 9/11, Bali, or any of the dozens of other bombings or mass kidnappings (like happened in Nigeria).



How hard have you looked for these voices?

http://www.washingtonsblog.com/2014/08/muslims-condemn-isis.htmlI try not to hear too many voices because my doctor told me they might be telling me to do bad things.


Now, with that silliness aside, thanks for the link. Though it does bear the question, is the U.S. media intentionally doing so in an effort to help paint the broad brush? If so, we're in for a world of suck. What happened to 60 Minutes with Tom Brokaw?

Thanks for the link AA. That said, i will note that the washington post article seems to only center on "islamic leaders". Nothing about the common Muslim person.

Michele
12-19-2014, 12:12 AM
I understand what's being said here; problem is, this implies just because two or more people share the same faith, that they're all responsible for each other's (mis)behavior. Requiring the "Muslim community" to apologize for the ones who misbehave also engenders the judgment of Muslims as a collective and not as individuals. Those are definitely things that we would never want to wish upon ourselves.

No actually, not requiring the muslim community to apologize for the ones who misbehave. Requiring the muslim community to denounce the behaviour. The silence is deafening. The debate rages about it being an act of terrorism or not.........


Islam is an ideology with a religious component to it, muslims are followers of that ideology. Why cant people get that?

Stalwart
12-19-2014, 02:22 AM
These two verses alone, should be enough to convince anyone that God isn't all knowing, and that he is a tremendous lunk head when it comes to problem solving.

I see the platypus and think that was an off day for God.

It is a mammal, that lays eggs ... is kind of like a beaver, but has a bill and webbed feet. What. The. Hell.

Stalwart
12-19-2014, 02:23 AM
Islam is an ideology with a religious component to it, muslims are followers of that ideology. Why cant people get that?

So then what would you call the religious component?

Rainmaker
12-19-2014, 04:59 AM
I agree, what you just pointed out is a fundamental flaw in the very nature of the Abrahamic God.

The whole idea of it is just as deeply flawed as the Santa Claus story.

The fact that so many people believe in this nonsense is frightening.

http://www.jewishjournal.com/david_suissa/article/obama_im_jewish_in_my_soul

Probably more people than you'd think. gnomesayin?

SomeRandomGuy
12-19-2014, 04:07 PM
I agree, what you just pointed out is a fundamental flaw in the very nature of the Abrahamic God.

The whole idea of it is just as deeply flawed as the Santa Claus story.

The fact that so many people believe in this nonsense is frightening.

Earlier you quoted Genesis 6. You also claim that you have spent a lot of time researching christianity. Do you have any thoughts on who the Nepharim were?

Here is Genesis 6 from teh NIV


6 When human beings began to increase in number on the earth and daughters were born to them, 2 the sons of God saw that the daughters of humans were beautiful, and they married any of them they chose. 3 Then the Lord said, “My Spirit will not contend with[a] humans forever, for they are mortal[b]; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.”

4 The Nephilim were on the earth in those days—and also afterward—when the sons of God went to the daughters of humans and had children by them. They were the heroes of old, men of renown.

5 The Lord saw how great the wickedness of the human race had become on the earth, and that every inclination of the thoughts of the human heart was only evil all the time. 6 The Lord regretted that he had made human beings on the earth, and his heart was deeply troubled. 7 So the Lord said, “I will wipe from the face of the earth the human race I have created—and with them the animals, the birds and the creatures that move along the ground—for I regret that I have made them.” 8 But Noah found favor in the eyes of the Lord.


So the Lord destroyed the earth because the Sons of God had Children with the Sons of Man? The Lord said that "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years"

Also who are these Nepharim? Were they aliens or something? This chapter gets pretty wacky.

Rusty Jones
12-19-2014, 04:12 PM
Earlier you quoted Genesis 6. You also claim that you have spent a lot of time researching christianity. Do you have any thoughts on who the Nepharim were?

Here is Genesis 6 from teh NIV



So the Lord destroyed the earth because the Sons of God had Children with the Sons of Man? The Lord said that "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years"

Also who are these Nepharim? Were they aliens or something? This chapter gets pretty wacky.

They were giants. Half man, half god giants. The sons of God refer to the 70 sons of El - Chief of the Canaanite Pantheon; and Ashera, his consort. Yahweh is but one of the 70 sons. Each of whom were assigned by El to watch over a nation of their respective chosen people (Deuteronomy 32:8-9).

sandsjames
12-19-2014, 04:42 PM
Earlier you quoted Genesis 6. You also claim that you have spent a lot of time researching christianity. Do you have any thoughts on who the Nepharim were?

Here is Genesis 6 from teh NIV



So the Lord destroyed the earth because the Sons of God had Children with the Sons of Man? The Lord said that "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years"

Also who are these Nepharim? Were they aliens or something? This chapter gets pretty wacky.

They were angels who took on human form in order to interact with people. As far being giants, think of Goliath. There have been several skulls discovered in the ancient middle east that are much larger than the human skull of today.

Rusty Jones
12-19-2014, 04:46 PM
They were angels who took on human form in order to interact with people. As far being giants, think of Goliath. There have been several skulls discovered in the ancient middle east that are much larger than the human skull of today.

There you have it. I gave the academic response. SJ gave the Christian response. Which one you choose is up to you.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-19-2014, 05:01 PM
Earlier you quoted Genesis 6. You also claim that you have spent a lot of time researching christianity. Do you have any thoughts on who the Nepharim were?

Here is Genesis 6 from teh NIV







So the Lord destroyed the earth because the Sons of God had Children with the Sons of Man? The Lord said that "My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years"

Also who are these Nepharim? Were they aliens or something? This chapter gets pretty wacky.

Personally, I don't think the OT is accurate, I think it is just folk lore from the Bronze Age.

Back when I was still a Christian, and I started to think that Genesis 6 was just too ambiguous to draw any real conclusions from, the next thing I did was go to the Torah, since it is the basis for that particular book of the OT; however, It too is just as ambiguous.

I tend to believe what some Hebrew scholars say about the word Nephillim. It was a word that means apostates, or those who have fallen, supposedly from grace.

I think Rusty's explanation has some validity, but he is reffering to ancient writing outside of what a "normal" Christian would ever consider reading.

If one is looking at putting the story together in context of all ancient writings that are currently available, it makes perfect sense to use Rusty's approach.

Like I said earlier, I believe it is just folk lore, and folk lore isn't what I consider an accurate source of information.

Any person with an ounce of rational thought, should see holy scripture as strong evidence that if there is an omnipotent creator, he doesn't care what we believe about him.

If really he cared, he would communicate with us directly and not through the ridiculous method he is currently using.

So fuck the Nephillim, it is just part of some ancient folk lore.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-19-2014, 05:10 PM
They were angels who took on human form in order to interact with people. As far being giants, think of Goliath. There have been several skulls discovered in the ancient middle east that are much larger than the human skull of today.

Citation please! What museum or university currently has these large skulls that were found in the Middle East?

I want to read about them, so please post some more information on these large human skulls.

Rusty Jones
12-19-2014, 05:17 PM
Personally, I don't think the OT is accurate, I think it is just folk lore from the Bronze Age.

Back when I was still a Christian, and I started to think that Genesis 6 was just too ambiguous to draw any real conclusions from, the next thing I did was go to the Torah, since it is the basis for that particular book of the OT; however, It too is just as ambiguous.

I tend to believe what some Hebrew scholars say about the word Nephillim. It was a word that means apostates, or those who have fallen, supposedly from grace.

I think Rusty's explanation has some validity, but he is reffering to ancient writing outside of what a "normal" Christian would ever consider reading.

If one is looking at putting the story together in context of all ancient writings that are currently available, it makes perfect sense to use Rusty's approach.

Like I said earlier, I believe it is just folk lore, and folk lore isn't what I consider an accurate source of information.

Any person with an ounce of rational thought, should see holy scripture as strong evidence that if there is an omnipotent creator, he doesn't care what we believe about him.

If really he cared, he would communicate with us directly and not through the ridiculous method he is currently using.

So fuck the Nephillim, it is just part of some ancient folk lore.

If you read the Tanakh, you'll see that Jews have a greater vested interest in cleaning up all of the references to pre-Babylonian Exile polytheism. Among Christian Bibles, believe it or not, the King James Version is the least "cleaned up" of the most commonly available English translations. That's why I love it so much.

Compare Psalm 82 in the KJV versus a Jewish Tanakh:

Psalm 82 KJV

God standeth in the congregation of the mighty; he judgeth among the gods. How long will ye judge unjustly, and accept the persons of the wicked? Selah. Defend the poor and fatherless: do justice to the afflicted and needy. Deliver the poor and needy: rid them out of the hand of the wicked. They know not, neither will they understand; they walk on in darkness: all the foundations of the earth are out of course. I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the Most High. But ye shall die like men, and fall like one of the princes. Arise, O God, judge the earth: for thou shalt inherit all nations.

Tehillim 82

A song of Asaph. God stands in the congregation of God; in the midst of the judges He will judge. How long will you judge unjustly and favor the wicked forever? Judge the poor and orphan; justify the humble and the impoverished. Release the poor and the needy; save [them] from the hands of [the] wicked. They did not know and they do not understand [that] they will walk in darkness; all the foundations of the earth will totter. I said, "You are angelic creatures, and all of you are angels of the Most High." Indeed, as man, you will die, and as one of the princes, you will fall. Arise, O God, judge the earth, for You inherit all the nations.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-19-2014, 05:26 PM
They were giants. Half man, half god giants. The sons of God refer to the 70 sons of El - Chief of the Canaanite Pantheon; and Ashera, his consort. Yahweh is but one of the 70 sons. Each of whom were assigned by El to watch over a nation of their respective chosen people (Deuteronomy 32:8-9).

What else are you citing besides the book of Deuteronomy, or which translation are you using to extract that level of detail?



Deuteronomy 32:7-10New International Version (NIV)

7 Remember the days of old;
consider the generations long past.
Ask your father and he will tell you,
your elders, and they will explain to you.
8 When the Most High gave the nations their inheritance,
when he divided all mankind,
he set up boundaries for the peoples
according to the number of the sons of Israel.[a]
9 For the Lord’s portion is his people,
Jacob his allotted inheritance.
10 In a desert land he found him,
in a barren and howling waste.
He shielded him and cared for him;
he guarded him as the apple of his eye,
Footnotes:

Deuteronomy 32:8 Masoretic Text; Dead Sea Scrolls (see also Septuagint) sons of God

I'm not saying you are off your rocker, far from it, but I do want to know from what amalgamation of texts you put that expiation together from.

Rusty Jones
12-19-2014, 05:43 PM
What else are you citing besides the book of Deuteronomy, or which translation are you using to extract that level of detail?



I'm not saying you are off your rocker, far from it, but I do want to know from what amalgamation of texts you put that expiation together from.

Notice how the "Most High" divided the nations, and the "Lord" recevied his portion - the Isrealites - from the "Most High."

Rusty Jones
12-19-2014, 06:18 PM
Psalm 82 kind of screws up Judaism, because El is seen stripping the rest of the pantheon of their godhood for failing their respective chosen people, and uniting all of the people of the world under himself.

There's no mention of Yahweh being spared. El never favored the Jews, only Yahweh did.

But then... this screws up Christianity. El, for the most part, was benevolent while Yahweh was moody and bi-polar. If El was the last god standing - and he's the benevolent one, who loves ALL people - it stands to reason that Jesus is the son of El. But... Jesus speaking in the context of Judaism and quoting the Tanakh would make him the son of Yahweh.

The truth? Around 600 BC, Jews began believing that El and Yahweh were one and the same. Jesus is the son of this "merged" God.

Learning this is what totally burned any possible bridge I would've ever had to being Christian again.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-19-2014, 06:28 PM
Notice how the "Most High" divided the nations, and the "Lord" recevied his portion - the Isrealites - from the "Most High."

I get where it fits into the OT, but I wanted to know what text you got the 70 Sons of El, of which Yaweh is one of them.

It isn't from any translations that modern day Christians use, at least I don't think it is.

I am only speaking from the viewpoint of a former Christian that primarily studied translations of the Hebrew Bible that were first copied into Koine Greek for Greek speaking Jews that lived in Alexandria, Egypt around 200 BCE.

Those were based on a much later version of the Hebrew Bible that had already been "cleaned up" to obscure polytheism.

Just curious as to much the older texts that you are getting that more detailed picture from. I realize it is probably more than one.

I'm thinking that level of detail can only come from combining fragments from several sources.

Rusty Jones
12-19-2014, 06:37 PM
I get where it fits into the OT, but I wanted to know what text you got the 70 Sons of El, of which Yaweh is one of them.

It isn't from any translations that modern day Christians use, at least I don't think it is.

I am only speaking from the viewpoint of a former Christian that primarily studied translations of the Hebrew Bible that were first copied into Koine Greek for Greek speaking Jews that lived in Alexandria, Egypt around 200 BCE.

Those were based on a much later version of the Hebrew Bible that had already been "cleaned up" to obscure polytheism.

Just curious as to much the older texts that you are getting that more detailed picture from. I realize it is probably more than one.

I'm thinking that level of detail can only come from combining fragments from several sources.

It comes from the Ancient Canaanite religion. The Canaanites worship most of the gods mentioned in the Bible as one pantheon. This is before biblical times. Different sub-tribes broke off from the Canaanites, each worshipping only one of the gods (sometimes two). The Jews were one of them - they split off and worshipped Yahweh, who was previously the Canaanite god of war and storms.

Familiarize yourself with the Canaanite religion and Ugarit, and you'll see what I'm talking about.

garhkal
12-19-2014, 10:00 PM
How is it this thread got from talking about the tragedy, to comparing bible quotes and abrahamic religions?

Rainmaker
12-20-2014, 12:11 AM
How is it this thread got from talking about the tragedy, to comparing bible quotes and abrahamic religions?

Because the Atheists are convincing us with their knowledge of History. But, the Bible is not secular history. It's salvation history and the stories of the Bible are figurative not literal. I have the opposite situation of these guys. I started out an atheist and then became a believer that man is intelligently designed. We are not designed to know the Truth. We are designed to search for the Truth. When the personification of reason asked the personification of truth. what is truth? The truth didn't answer him. As above, So below my friends.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-20-2014, 02:46 AM
I see the platypus and think that was an off day for God.

It is a mammal, that lays eggs ... is kind of like a beaver, but has a bill and webbed feet. What. The. Hell.

Ornithorhynchus anatinus, one of the five remaing species of monotremes, the only mammals that lay eggs instead of giving birth. Also, the fossil record contains many types of egg-laying mammals, it was more than just one bad day.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-20-2014, 02:57 AM
Because the Atheists are impressing us dolts...

i wouldn't call you a dolt, I think a pseudo intellectual is more descriptive of you.

BTW,

I picked up on the platypus comment so I could also impress you with my knowledge of evolution, another subject that I'm sure you know little about.

Rainmaker
12-20-2014, 07:46 AM
i wouldn't call you a dolt, I think a pseudo intellectual is more descriptive of you.

BTW,

I picked up on the platypus comment so I could also impress you with my knowledge of evolution, another subject that I'm sure you know little about.

I been down your road before...Just By proclaiming atheism you automatically become smarter than everyone else in the room who believes in an invisible God. Thing is Atheism is only another BELIEF system...one which always lends itself to arrogance and elitism. which is why Atheism and leftist, big statest, authoritarian governments go hand in hand. Man can't live by bread alone. just because you don't understand or cannot grasp a higher power does not make it a fact that one doesn't exist.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-20-2014, 01:27 PM
I been down your road before...Just By proclaiming atheism you automatically become smarter than everyone else in the room who believes in an invisible God.

Well, yes, I guess it does.


Thing is Atheism is only another BELIEF system...one which always lends itself to arrogance and elitism. which is why Atheism and leftist, big statest, authoritarian governments go hand in hand. Man can't live by bread alone.

If I don't believe in leprechauns, wood fairies, meadow sprites, and the Gods of Mount Olympus, is that also a belief system, according to you?


just because you don't understand or cannot grasp a higher power does not make it a fact that one doesn't exist.

A higher power? Where the fuck did you get your religion? Sounds like you've been going to AA meetings.

The comos is a higher power. Gravity is a higher power. Humankind is a higher power.

Coming to Jesus because you made a mess of your life with alcohol, is better than drinking yourself to death.

But if you can't see that all that crap is make believe, that is your problem.

Rusty Jones
12-20-2014, 04:56 PM
I been down your road before...Just By proclaiming atheism you automatically become smarter than everyone else in the room who believes in an invisible God. Thing is Atheism is only another BELIEF system...one which always lends itself to arrogance and elitism. which is why Atheism and leftist, big statest, authoritarian governments go hand in hand. Man can't live by bread alone. just because you don't understand or cannot grasp a higher power does not make it a fact that one doesn't exist.

To be fair, Christians say the same thing about us. Psalms 14:1, Proverbs 1:7 and 9:10. Both E4RUMOR and 20+ Years have used these in their arguments against us.

Rainmaker
12-20-2014, 05:58 PM
Well, yes, I guess it does.



If I don't believe in leprechauns, wood fairies, meadow sprites, and the Gods of Mount Olympus, is that also a belief system, according to you?


A higher power? Where the fuck did you get your religion? Sounds like you've been going to AA meetings.

The comos is a higher power. Gravity is a higher power. Humankind is a higher power.

Coming to Jesus because you made a mess of your life with alcohol, is better than drinking yourself to death.

But if you can't see that all that crap is make believe, that is your problem.

No, I'm not an alcoholic. I wasn't really raised religious. i was pretty much agnostic, went through my atheist phase And Just like You I was an atheist that couldn't stop talking about GOD. Ultimately I found Atheism hard to reconcile with what Id personally experienced in my life. Most Atheists have no sense of hope and purpose which, is why they are usually Angry and always have the need to try to prove the existence of God Wrong.

Rainmaker
12-20-2014, 06:08 PM
To be fair, Christians say the same thing about us. Psalms 14:1, Proverbs 1:7 and 9:10. Both E4RUMOR and 20+ Years have used these in their arguments against us.

Rusty, I'm not so arrogant as to think that you Atheists couldn't possibly be right. But, I also think you could possibly be wrong. Makes no sense. But, Most Atheists and Christians alike always focus on the Old testament more than the New in their arguments for or against Christianity.

For me the whole Bible story (and yes it's a story) basically it comes down to this...
Old Testament = Karma is a Bitch. (Law)
New Testament = 2 wrongs don't make 1 right. (Grace)