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View Full Version : LA to implement 'kitchen staff' line item for tipping on recepits.



garhkal
12-05-2014, 07:38 PM
http://dailyfreepress.com/2014/11/20/late-night-kitchen-to-fully-implement-tipping-system/

http://firstwefeast.com/eat/los-angeles-restaurant-adds-a-gratuity-line-for-kitchen-staff/

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/los-angeles-restaurant-owner-asks-customers-tip-his-kitchen-staff

Saw this on Fox at lunch, where LA county is trying a new regulation where a line item for people to 'tip the kitchen staff', not just the waiters/bus boys/matre'dis is going to be added to your receipts.

Having eaten overseas many a time where there was no tipping needed as it was already computed into your final bill, i have never really noticed an improvement in service, taste of food or quality at places where its mandated/automatically included, over places where tipping is my choice.

So what's everyone elses thought on this?

sandsjames
12-05-2014, 08:03 PM
http://dailyfreepress.com/2014/11/20/late-night-kitchen-to-fully-implement-tipping-system/

http://firstwefeast.com/eat/los-angeles-restaurant-adds-a-gratuity-line-for-kitchen-staff/

http://www.opposingviews.com/i/society/los-angeles-restaurant-owner-asks-customers-tip-his-kitchen-staff

Saw this on Fox at lunch, where LA county is trying a new regulation where a line item for people to 'tip the kitchen staff', not just the waiters/bus boys/matre'dis is going to be added to your receipts.

Having eaten overseas many a time where there was no tipping needed as it was already computed into your final bill, i have never really noticed an improvement in service, taste of food or quality at places where its mandated/automatically included, over places where tipping is my choice.

So what's everyone elses thought on this?

It's ridiculous, and it's going to end up hurting the tips for the waiters, etc. Ultimately, though, I don't see it mattering too much. The cooks don't really see the customers so it's not like they are going to give me bad food the next time I come in when they don't get a tip.

Mata Leao
12-05-2014, 08:05 PM
There is this pizza/pasta place in Park City, UT that seems to cater to tourists. I live close enough I don't consider myself a tourist, but we ate there anyway, once. There is an automatic 20% tip included. I had to remind them to bring my beer and went to find someone to get ketchup. Definitely not worth 20%. I think knowing they are getting 20% anyway causes them to be lazy. I don't want to get into the argument about service wages or whatever. Tipping for service is the tradition here, based on level of service.

I'm a fairly generous tipper; I start at 25% and work up/down from there. Even average service still gets 20% because I know it's hard work.

SomeRandomGuy
12-05-2014, 08:32 PM
While we are on the subject of tipping. Do any of you actually tip the maids at a hotel? Does it vary based on how long you stay?

For example, when I was TDy to Turkey I was in the Hilton for 45 days. I made a few special requests of houskeeping which were handled. I did leave a tip in that case.

In my opinion if I stay in a hotel for one night only I would definitly never leave a tip. What exactly am I tipping for? Yes the bed was made and the room was clean when I arrived. To me that's part of the price. When I leave, if I leave a tip for houskeeping what's it for? To clean the room for the next person?

Measure Man
12-05-2014, 11:08 PM
While we are on the subject of tipping. Do any of you actually tip the maids at a hotel? Does it vary based on how long you stay?

For example, when I was TDy to Turkey I was in the Hilton for 45 days. I made a few special requests of houskeeping which were handled. I did leave a tip in that case.

In my opinion if I stay in a hotel for one night only I would definitly never leave a tip. What exactly am I tipping for? Yes the bed was made and the room was clean when I arrived. To me that's part of the price. When I leave, if I leave a tip for houskeeping what's it for? To clean the room for the next person?

I tip the maid almost always. If I'm staying somewhere for just a few days, I leave the 'Do not Disturb' sign up the whole time...and usually leave a $5 tip.

The only time I don't is when it's checkout time and I have no cash on me. I don't feel bad cuz, really, she only had to clean once for my whole stay.

If I stay like 45 days I tip every few days when I do request service...

garhkal
12-06-2014, 04:03 AM
While we are on the subject of tipping. Do any of you actually tip the maids at a hotel? Does it vary based on how long you stay?


With me, it depends on if its an actual hotel or motel, and how long.
When i went back to gulfport last year to sign some paperwork and do an inspection of my house that was being rented out, i stayed 2 nights at a motel, so didn't tip.
A few years back when i got a TAD out at Camp Pendelton for a exercise i stayed at La quinta for 5 days so did.

giggawatt
12-06-2014, 11:36 AM
How much do you tip your barber? I've never tipped a maid. Does it make me cheap? Maybe but I didn't know it was even a custom.

Measure Man
12-06-2014, 05:31 PM
How much do you tip your barber?

I haven't been to a barber in 10 years.

Try this one...I once tipped the sandwich maker at the commissary...well, I had a large last-minute order that I didn't call in 24 hours ahead of time, and he really went out of his way to help.

Next time, I was gonna do it again...he wouldn't accept it. I was trying to insist, but is supervisor was there...she reminded me that he is a federal civil service worker and is prohibited from accepting tips.

garhkal
12-06-2014, 08:14 PM
How much do you tip your barber? I've never tipped a maid. Does it make me cheap? Maybe but I didn't know it was even a custom.

If say i get a cut for 13, i round up to 15, after tax is included. If less than 12, i give a buck.

In discussions about tipping on the Gencon forums, a lot of heated arguments on both sides of whether you should and should tip consistently make the rounds. There are several sites out there listing who should and shouldn't be tipped.
The one i always scratch my head to see is, "Pre-tip bartenders, to ensure you not only get service promptly, but actually GET served drinks you order.
I am sorry, but to me that sounds awfully like you need to bribe them. And if you don't, you won't get anything.

Rusty Jones
12-08-2014, 11:20 AM
Here's an interesting HuffPo article suggesting that tipping be abolished. One part that stands out, is where the author mentions that many customers might actually fight against this because they feel that tipping gives them a sense of power and control.

sandsjames
12-08-2014, 11:57 AM
The main issue is that anyone tries to have a "standard" for tipping. It's merely supposed to be giving a little extra if you feel the service deserves it. No set amount. No standard.

Rusty Jones
12-08-2014, 12:38 PM
The main issue is that anyone tries to have a "standard" for tipping. It's merely supposed to be giving a little extra if you feel the service deserves it. No set amount. No standard.

I WOULD agree that tips are "extra," were it not for these two issues:

1. They're paid less than the standard minimum wage, because tips are a part of their compensation package.

2. 15% percent of every check that they serve is reported to the IRS as income, whether you tip them or not. This makes it possible for waitors to actually LOSE money.

Get rid of these two things, and I'd have no problem with people with saying that a waitor literally has to suck their cock in order to get a tip. But I hope the tip is equal to what they'd pay a street walker for it.

TJMAC77SP
12-08-2014, 12:52 PM
I WOULD agree that tips are "extra," were it not for these two issues:

1. They're paid less than the standard minimum wage, because tips are a part of their compensation package.

2. 15% percent of every check that they serve is reported to the IRS as income, whether you tip them or not. This makes it possible for waitors to actually LOSE money.

Get rid of these two things, and I'd have no problem with people with saying that a waitor literally has to suck their cock in order to get a tip. But I hope the tip is equal to what they'd pay a street walker for it.

Are you sure employers have to report 15%? I thought it was 8% and btw, I think that sucks as well.

sandsjames
12-08-2014, 01:08 PM
I WOULD agree that tips are "extra," were it not for these two issues:

1. They're paid less than the standard minimum wage, because tips are a part of their compensation package.

2. 15% percent of every check that they serve is reported to the IRS as income, whether you tip them or not. This makes it possible for waitors to actually LOSE money.



Is that a federal law, or is it state by state? I know there are some places where the tips go into a "pool", then split evenly. That's BS too. The entire system is messed up.

As you said, pay everyone at least minimum wage and let the servers keep their tips. It just doesn't make sense to me how something like that gets taxed.

I usually tip pretty good, IMO. I'm all about round numbers when I pay, so I'll tip at least 15% (generally) plus whatever bumps it up to the next round number.

Rusty Jones
12-08-2014, 01:31 PM
Are you sure employers have to report 15%? I thought it was 8% and btw, I think that sucks as well.




Is that a federal law, or is it state by state? I know there are some places where the tips go into a "pool", then split evenly. That's BS too. The entire system is messed up.

I'm actually not sure. I do follow a few websites where waiters posts stories about stiffers (I post there from the perspective of a taxi driver and pizza deliveryman), and 15% is the number that they mention; especially when they post stories about getting stiffed by a party of 10 or something like that, where they actually lost money (some managers have been known to discount the tickets after the fact, the keep the waiter from losing money - though they're not supposed to do that).

garhkal
12-08-2014, 06:48 PM
Is that a federal law, or is it state by state? I know there are some places where the tips go into a "pool", then split evenly. That's BS too. The entire system is messed up.

I agree. Pooling tips rewards the lazy at the expense of the good workers. BUT it is a mirror of how society at large is, what with the more you make, the more you pay in taxes, while those who don't work at all get more back from the govt..

Rusty Jones
12-08-2014, 06:54 PM
I agree. Pooling tips rewards the lazy at the expense of the good workers. BUT it is a mirror of how society at large is, what with the more you make, the more you pay in taxes, while those who don't work at all get more back from the govt..

There are some situations where it actually makes sense to pool the tips. For example, if your waitstaff earns large amounts of tips but you can't otherwise afford to pay your cooks and dishwashers enough to minimize turnover, then you might want to consider pooling tips.

But to call people "lazy" is pretty far off. Waiting tables is the cleanest job in the restaurant.

Bos Mutus
04-03-2015, 04:37 PM
I WOULD agree that tips are "extra," were it not for these two issues:

1. They're paid less than the standard minimum wage, because tips are a part of their compensation package.

In california, waiters and waitresses must be paid at least minimum wage...then, plus the tips. Employers may not reduce wage below minimum on account of tips.


2. 15% percent of every check that they serve is reported to the IRS as income, whether you tip them or not. This makes it possible for waitors to actually LOSE money.

The 8% is correct. So, let's see. If the bill was $100, the waiter will be reported for $8. If on that, he pays 15% tax, that's $1.20. So, he'd just about have to get stiffed entirely to lose money. The 8% deal is probably better for the waiter than having to record and report actual tips.


Get rid of these two things, and I'd have no problem with people with saying that a waitor literally has to suck their cock in order to get a tip. But I hope the tip is equal to what they'd pay a street walker for it.

Eeesh.


There are some situations where it actually makes sense to pool the tips. For example, if your waitstaff earns large amounts of tips but you can't otherwise afford to pay your cooks and dishwashers enough to minimize turnover, then you might want to consider pooling tips.

Wait a second...did you just say if the owners can't afford to pay their cooks a fair wage, they should steal tip money from the wait staff to make up the difference? Who are you and what have you done with RJ?


In California, it is illegal to pool tips with people who are not customarily tipped, so a restaurant can not pool the tips and pay cooks out of them. They may pool tips and split them amongst all waiters, though. If the waitresses want to tip the cooks out of their take, they may, of course, but they may not be required to do so by the boss...it is also illegal to have supervisors/managers get any of the tips unless they were personally tipped by a customer. Starbucks lost a huge class-action lawsuit in California for their practice of pooling tips and spreading them to all who worked, including the supervisor.

I did some research on California employment law when my wife, who works in a position that sometimes gets tips...was being asked to surrender her tips so the office could collect them over a year and have a party with them. Most of the people there do not customarily get tips though...so this "collection" would have been basically taking the money from the 2 people that did regularly earn tips and having them pay for the party. Illegal practice, as it turned out...didn't have to go to court or anything,..she had a chat with the owner who agreed that her tips are her's.

LogDog
04-03-2015, 09:49 PM
In California, it is illegal to pool tips with people who are not customarily tipped, so a restaurant can not pool the tips and pay cooks out of them. They may pool tips and split them amongst all waiters, though. If the waitresses want to tip the cooks out of their take, they may, of course, but they may not be required to do so by the boss...it is also illegal to have supervisors/managers get any of the tips unless they were personally tipped by a customer. Starbucks lost a huge class-action lawsuit in California for their practice of pooling tips and spreading them to all who worked, including the supervisor.

I did some research on California employment law when my wife, who works in a position that sometimes gets tips...was being asked to surrender her tips so the office could collect them over a year and have a party with them. Most of the people there do not customarily get tips though...so this "collection" would have been basically taking the money from the 2 people that did regularly earn tips and having them pay for the party. Illegal practice, as it turned out...didn't have to go to court or anything,..she had a chat with the owner who agreed that her tips are her's.
In California, you can legally pool the tip with the other employees if it is voluntary. Below is the California statue on tipping.

Labor Code Section 351 provides that “every gratuity is hereby declared to be the sole property of the employee or employees to whom it was paid, given, or left for”. The section has been interpreted to allow for involuntary tip pooling so long as the tip pooling policy is not used to compensate the owner(s), manager(s), or supervisor(s) of the business, even if these individuals should provide direct table service to a patron or are in the chain of service to a patron. In addition, the policy must be fair and reasonable. Therefore, your employer can require that you share your tips with other staff that provide service in the restaurant so long as the employees that share in the tip pooling policy are employees to whom the tip was paid, given, or left for. In this regard, the courts have validated policies that distributed tips among employees who provide “direct table service” or who are in the “chain of service” provided that employee in the chain of service bears a relationship to the customers’ overall experience. (updated March 2013).
http://www.dir.ca.gov/dlse/FAQ_tipsandgratuities.htm
I prefer for the tips to be shared with those in the kitchen whose cooking we are eating. The waiters/waitresses provide a service but the hardest work is done by those in the back.

Bos Mutus
04-03-2015, 10:06 PM
In California, you can legally pool the tip with the other employees if it is voluntary.

I don't think that's what the statute you posted says. Tips can be pooled, even involuntarily, but only distributed to people in the "service chain"...i.e. wait staff, busboys, bartenders...I don't think cooks are included in that.

From your link:




Q.

I work in a large restaurant as a waiter. My employer told me that I am required to share my tips with the busboy and the bartender. Am I obligated to do this?




A.

Yes. Labor Code Section 351 (http://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=LAB&sectionNum=351.) provides that “every gratuity is hereby declared to be the sole property of the employee or employees to whom it was paid, given, or left for”. The section has been interpreted to allow for involuntary tip pooling so long as the tip pooling policy is not used to compensate the owner(s), manager(s), or supervisor(s) of the business, even if these individuals should provide direct table service to a patron or are in the chain of service to a patron. In addition, the policy must be fair and reasonable. Therefore, your employer can require that you share your tips with other staff that provide service in the restaurant so long as the employees that share in the tip pooling policy are employees to whom the tip was paid, given, or left for. In this regard, the courts have validated policies that distributed tips among employees who provide “direct table service” or who are in the “chain of service” provided that employee in the chain of service bears a relationship to the customers’ overall experience. (updated March 2013).








I prefer for the tips to be shared with those in the kitchen whose cooking we are eating. The waiters/waitresses provide a service but the hardest work is done by those in the back.

If you expect your tips to get back to the cook, you would need to tell them that...otherwise they aren't going to get it...but, I guess this "tip for cooks" line on the receipt would work for you.

I agree that the cooking is the harder job, but for whatever reason, it is not customary to tip the cooks, so they are not entitled to a share of tips.

Maybe different in like a Sushi or Benihana style where it is more typical to tip the cooks.

...but of course, there is no law that prevents the wait staff from voluntary tipping out the cooks, if they want to.

TJMAC77SP
04-04-2015, 12:48 PM
I would imagine non-wait staff is paid the normal minimum wage. Seems an inequity if you are now including them in the tip pool

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
04-04-2015, 01:50 PM
I would imagine non-wait staff is paid the normal minimum wage. Seems an inequity if you are now including them in the tip pool

Eating out is just becoming too expensive (in my opinion), and this is just one more reason not to. My wife and used to eat out twice per week (avg $35 per visit), but now we've wised up on realized it's just a complete waste of money. We now go out to a sit-down restaurant about once per month.

So restaurants, keep raising those prices, and while you're at it, go ahead and pay your staff at least $15 per hour!

garhkal
04-05-2015, 01:37 AM
Eating out is just becoming too expensive (in my opinion), and this is just one more reason not to. My wife and used to eat out twice per week (avg $35 per visit), but now we've wised up on realized it's just a complete waste of money. We now go out to a sit-down restaurant about once per month.

So restaurants, keep raising those prices, and while you're at it, go ahead and pay your staff at least $15 per hour!

In the past calender year, i have eaten out at a proper restaurant (not just waffle house, dennys or Mcdonalds etc) three whole times. Twice was for a UFC event at Buffalo wild wings, and once was at Golden coral for veterans day.

Bos Mutus
04-05-2015, 03:08 AM
In the past calender year, i have eaten out at a proper restaurant (not just waffle house, dennys or Mcdonalds etc) three whole times. Twice was for a UFC event at Buffalo wild wings, and once was at Golden coral for veterans day.

We eat out at least every Friday....over the past 6 months we've had to eat out a lot more due to travel for medical appts.

Stalwart
04-05-2015, 10:56 AM
I agree that the cooking is the harder job, but for whatever reason, it is not customary to tip the cooks, so they are not entitled to a share of tips.

I worked in a steak house in high school (Soph, Junior & Senior years) and the highest paid employees other than the managers were the cooks. They didn't get a share of the tips and depending on the day the wait staff may have made more money (usually Fri, Sat & Sunday was very good for the wait staff but Mon to Thurs not so much.)

sandsjames
04-05-2015, 11:43 AM
In the past calender year, i have eaten out at a proper restaurant (not just waffle house, dennys or Mcdonalds etc) three whole times. Twice was for a UFC event at Buffalo wild wings, and once was at Golden coral for veterans day.LOL...I like how you differentiate between McDs/Dennys and BWW/Golden Coral. That's good stuff.

Stalwart
04-05-2015, 12:00 PM
LOL...I like how you differentiate between McDs/Dennys and BWW/Golden Coral. That's good stuff.

LOL

Denny's gotta love the Grand Slam.

LogDog
04-05-2015, 06:41 PM
I worked in a steak house in high school (Soph, Junior & Senior years) and the highest paid employees other than the managers were the cooks. They didn't get a share of the tips and depending on the day the wait staff may have made more money (usually Fri, Sat & Sunday was very good for the wait staff but Mon to Thurs not so much.)
I'd have no problem with that scenario but not all restaurants can afford to do that. In the late 70s, a friend of mine's son worked at a steak house in Myrtle Beach, SC and the owner's policy was he'd pay you what you're worth. If you only do the minimum amount of work he'd pay you minimum wages. If you were worth $15 an hour the he'd pay you that. In talking with the locals it turned out he had the best restaurant staff in the area as well as one of the most profitable businesses.

garhkal
04-05-2015, 10:52 PM
LOL

Denny's gotta love the Grand Slam.

For me, my 3 fave meals to eat at Denny's are the Ham and cheese omelet with hash browns and wheat toast, the lumberjack slam and ultimate skillet.

Stalwart
04-05-2015, 11:35 PM
For me, my 3 fave meals to eat at Denny's are the Ham and cheese omelet with hash browns and wheat toast, the lumberjack slam and ultimate skillet.

I really liked that Shire Breakfast when the Hobbit movie came out ...

in case you didn't know ... I am kind of a nerd.

sandsjames
04-05-2015, 11:40 PM
I really liked that Shire Breakfast when the Hobbit movie came out ...

in case you didn't know ... I am kind of a nerd.

We went this morning. They've got a Banana Nut Bread French toast. It pretty much kicked ass.

Stalwart
04-05-2015, 11:50 PM
We went this morning. They've got a Banana Nut Bread French toast. It pretty much kicked ass.

Damn. I worked today, my watch team and the other two in the building had a HUGE breakfast potluck. I think there were about 5 dozen eggs and about 7 pounds of bacon ... the whole area smelled like Waffle House.

Stalwart
04-05-2015, 11:53 PM
if you have never tried Eggs in Purgatory (google it) you should ... I have been making it for years and didn't realize it was pretty much an old school Italian recipe.

I add brown rice and garlic to the skillet to brown before I add the onions and such ... a bit of crunch and extra filling.

http://www.seriouseats.com/images/20120209-ed-staff-picks.jpg

CYBERFX1024
04-06-2015, 02:40 PM
We went this morning. They've got a Banana Nut Bread French toast. It pretty much kicked ass.

I wanted to try that yesterday but I stuck to the Red,White, and Blue Pancakes. AWESOME.....

CYBERFX1024
04-06-2015, 02:45 PM
This is why I don't go to Los Angeles to eat and I live literally right next door to it(Pasadena). That city charges more and more in taxes every single year, and it is becoming a third world city in a short amount of time.

garhkal
04-06-2015, 10:10 PM
I really liked that Shire Breakfast when the Hobbit movie came out ...

in case you didn't know ... I am kind of a nerd.

The only time i have been irked by Denny's was when they stopped making their Chilli cheese omelet and Mexican omelet.