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View Full Version : Lower pay raise, fewer benefits



sandsjames
12-04-2014, 02:18 PM
http://www.military.com/daily-news/2014/12/02/congress-agrees-to-troop-pay-bah-cuts-in-budget-compromise.html?ESRC=airforce-a.nl

I guess when they say "Do more with less" they are referring to compensation.

giggawatt
12-04-2014, 03:19 PM
Meanwhile, let's keep throwing money down the money pit that is the F-35. Remember in the 50's when they would pump out aircraft after aircraft to meet mission needs? Remember when they would cancel those when cost overruns were way too high?

garhkal
12-04-2014, 10:00 PM
Meanwhile, let's keep throwing money down the money pit that is the F-35. Remember in the 50's when they would pump out aircraft after aircraft to meet mission needs? Remember when they would cancel those when cost overruns were way too high?

Or they would actually withhold payments to someone who was late delivering what was promised. Oh wait. I can't ever remembering that happening with the govt. Just regular citizens and businesses do that common practice.

SomeRandomGuy
12-05-2014, 12:47 AM
Or they would actually withhold payments to someone who was late delivering what was promised. Oh wait. I can't ever remembering that happening with the govt. Just regular citizens and businesses do that common practice.

A lot of the delays with these big projects is that they constantly change the requirements. The government absolutely holds payments on contracts that are firm fixed price until after we get the deliverables.

What you run into on these big projects is that a new General takes command of the SPO(Special Project Office) and he changes the requirements which then causes a renegotiation of the terms. I watched it happen firsthand with ECCS. We spent 527 million (including termination fees) on a logistics system. The requirements kept changing and finally at the end it was still going to cost another Billion and about five years before we received anything. The program ended up being terminated.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/air-force-project-wasted-1-billion/nTKYP/

Measure Man
12-05-2014, 02:49 AM
A lot of the delays with these big projects is that they constantly change the requirements. The government absolutely holds payments on contracts that are firm fixed price until after we get the deliverables.

What you run into on these big projects is that a new General takes command of the SPO(Special Project Office) and he changes the requirements which then causes a renegotiation of the terms. I watched it happen firsthand with ECCS. We spent 527 million (including termination fees) on a logistics system. The requirements kept changing and finally at the end it was still going to cost another Billion and about five years before we received anything. The program ended up being terminated.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/air-force-project-wasted-1-billion/nTKYP/

Ugh huh....you said the E-word....what a colossal cluster fudge

garhkal
12-05-2014, 07:18 AM
A lot of the delays with these big projects is that they constantly change the requirements. The government absolutely holds payments on contracts that are firm fixed price until after we get the deliverables.

What you run into on these big projects is that a new General takes command of the SPO(Special Project Office) and he changes the requirements which then causes a renegotiation of the terms. I watched it happen firsthand with ECCS. We spent 527 million (including termination fees) on a logistics system. The requirements kept changing and finally at the end it was still going to cost another Billion and about five years before we received anything. The program ended up being terminated.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/air-force-project-wasted-1-billion/nTKYP/

True, new people always seem to push to change things, even when that change is for the worse.

SomeRandomGuy
12-05-2014, 02:16 PM
Ugh huh....you said the E-word....what a colossal cluster fudge

Funny story....In between the Air Force and my current contract job I worked private sector accounting. That company was a decent sized company with locations in over 30 countries. We used Oracle to manage logistics. That program is amazing. It does everything from tracking inventory to properly accounting for that inventory. It eevn handles vendor payments.

Long story short when I first heard about ECCS my first thought was what you want sounds exactly like Oracle. After talking to a few people it turns out they were using Orcale. The only problem though. Instead of changing the processes we use they tried to re-engineer the off the shelf version of Oracle to do what they wanted.

The big problem with ECCS and why they couldn't just use the turn key version of Oracle is that in Oracle you heavily rely on the person who orders the inventory to classify it correctly. For example if someone on the flight line needed a part they would get on the computer and enter what they need. In order for the system to track it properly the "end-user" is relied on heavily. If we wanted to make Oracle work a lot of the bean counters would need to be relocated to the work centers they support. We also would have needed to re-train government civilians who have been doing the same job for 30 years.

It's sad that ECCS was not sucessful. I think we learned an important lesson. What happened was basically the equivalent of needing a new convoy vehicle. In the private sector they use semi trucks for that. Now imagine you took a brand new freightliner and tried to turn it into a Humvee.

Sure the Humvee has some good qualities but so does the freightliner. If they wanted a Humvee they should have ordered that as opposed to trying to turn the freightliner into the Humvee. It just didn't work well but it could have if the target hadn't changed all the time.