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Absinthe Anecdote
11-29-2014, 02:24 PM
The Christmas season is fast approaching and all over America, parents are once again pulling the stupid Santa prank on their children.

I'd like to urge anyone considering playing this silly prank on their small children to reconsider.

I say that it is just a mean trick that is potentially harmful to your kids. You are making your kids look stupid by fooling them like that.

When they do find out that Santa isn't real, they will most likely be embarrassed that they were tricked by such nonsense. If they aren't, then they will likely be saddened to find out it was just a big hoax.

I say that fooling your children in this manner is a tremendous violation of trust between parent and child.

Your kids depend on you for everything, especially knowledge, and what a colossal failure of passing on knowledge it is to fool them in believing such an absurd tale.

There isn't even anything good that ultimately comes from doing this. Any joy they experience is as fleeting as the cheap toys that Santa leaves them.

Give Santa the boot this holiday season. When they hear about him from outside the home, tell them it is just a pretend game that some families play.

Don't encourage your kids to be idiots that believe in flying reindeer and a fatso in a magic sleigh that carries a tremendous amount of toys around the earth in a single night.

Instead, give your kids the gift of the scientific method and the quest for truth.

BENDER56
11-29-2014, 03:16 PM
... When they hear about him from outside the home, tell them it is just a pretend game that some families play ...

C'mon, dude ... what fun is that? Tell your child that when he hears those other poor, misguided children talk about Santa, to tell them flat-out they're stupid poopy heads and there's no such thing as Santa. This will teach your child how to fight and prepare him for a lifetime of lording over the ignorant rest of humanity with his superior knowledge. Win/Win!

Absinthe Anecdote
11-29-2014, 03:38 PM
C'mon, dude ... what fun is that? Tell your child that when he hears those other poor, misguided children talk about Santa, to tell them flat-out they're stupid poopy heads and there's no such thing as Santa. This will teach your child how to fight and prepare him for a lifetime of lording over the ignorant rest of humanity with his superior knowledge. Win/Win!

That's better than teaching them to idolize and revere a fat dude. I don't get why Santa has to be a fat guy that munches on millions of cookies and drinks millions of gallons of milk on his yearly trek around the world.

That's yet another aspect of Santa that is so dumb, he's an undisciplined slob with lousy eating habits.

There is no way a lard ass like that could have the endurance needed to make such a grueling journey.

I wouldn't be so harsh on this myth if he was a triathlete or something a bit more healthy.

But I agree, you'll be putting your kid far ahead of those inane poopy heads that believe in such nonsense.

sandsjames
11-30-2014, 12:42 AM
I've never known a single person who was in any way traumatized, or angry at their parents, by believing in Santa for the first few years of their life.

And, ,more importantly, Santa is the epitome of the physical standards required for his job positions. If he was in shape, cut, ripped, he would fail. When it comes to standards, Santa fits his perfectly.

Absinthe Anecdote
11-30-2014, 02:23 AM
I've never known a single person who was in any way traumatized, or angry at their parents, by believing in Santa for the first few years of their life.

We will just add that to the already long list of things you don't know.

Nothing good comes from fooling one's children in this manner.

It amounts to nothing more than of making one's child out to be a fool.

Children deserve much better, they deserve to be taught knowledge, not tricked into believing nonsense for the amusement of the parent.

I would think a loving parent would be against clouding a child's mind with nonsense on principle alone.

And for our Christian friends, there is something called the first commandment to consider.

Exodus 20:1-17 New International Version (NIV)

3 “You shall have no other gods before me.

If Santa isn't a god like being, I don't know what is. He is reported to be omniscient, capable of knowing who is naughty or nice. He knows when children are asleep, or awake.

Some parents even take the Santa nonsense so far as to have their children writing letters, or making requests that are tantamount to prayers.

But alas, we have already discussed how ignorant the majority of Christians are of their own scripture.

I'm not surprised that you'd speak up in favor of Santa. I guess some people have a need to believe in myths and fairy tales.

It isn't healthy or rational behavior, and if you are a Christian, it is even in conflict with your religion.

One would think that being against the Santa myth would be one area of agreement for the Atheist and Christian, but apparently not.

Tsk Tsk

USN - Retired
11-30-2014, 06:01 PM
The Christmas season is fast approaching and all over America, parents are once again pulling the stupid Santa prank on their children.

I'd like to urge anyone considering playing this silly prank on their small children to reconsider.

I say that it is just a mean trick that is potentially harmful to your kids. You are making your kids look stupid by fooling them like that.

When they do find out that Santa isn't real, they will most likely be embarrassed that they were tricked by such nonsense. If they aren't, then they will likely be saddened to find out it was just a big hoax.

I say that fooling your children in this manner is a tremendous violation of trust between parent and child.

Your kids depend on you for everything, especially knowledge, and what a colossal failure of passing on knowledge it is to fool them in believing such an absurd tale.

There isn't even anything good that ultimately comes from doing this. Any joy they experience is as fleeting as the cheap toys that Santa leaves them.

Give Santa the boot this holiday season. When they hear about him from outside the home, tell them it is just a pretend game that some families play.

Don't encourage your kids to be idiots that believe in flying reindeer and a fatso in a magic sleigh that carries a tremendous amount of toys around the earth in a single night.

Instead, give your kids the gift of the scientific method and the quest for truth.

As an Atheist, you should be happy with the Santa myth. Here's why...

Young children are taught the myth about Santa by their parents, their teachers, the media, and perhaps even other sources. Most children believe the myth, and they believe it with all their heart. As children grow up, they learn that Santa is not real at all. The children will then realize that they have been duped. Those children will then question other subjects that they have been taught. They may even question what they have learned about Christianity.

----------------------------------------------------------

The Buddha's teachings on judging truth are found in the Kalama Sutta.

The Kalama Sutra is a sutra in the Anguttara Nikaya of the Tipitaka. It is often cited by both Mahayana and Theravada Buddhists, and is known as the Buddha's charter of free inquiry.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalama_Sutta

http://buddhism.about.com/od/thetripitaka/a/kalamasutta.htm

LogDog
11-30-2014, 07:42 PM
The Christmas season is fast approaching and all over America, parents are once again pulling the stupid Santa prank on their children.

I'd like to urge anyone considering playing this silly prank on their small children to reconsider.

I say that it is just a mean trick that is potentially harmful to your kids. You are making your kids look stupid by fooling them like that.

When they do find out that Santa isn't real, they will most likely be embarrassed that they were tricked by such nonsense. If they aren't, then they will likely be saddened to find out it was just a big hoax.

I say that fooling your children in this manner is a tremendous violation of trust between parent and child.

Your kids depend on you for everything, especially knowledge, and what a colossal failure of passing on knowledge it is to fool them in believing such an absurd tale.

There isn't even anything good that ultimately comes from doing this. Any joy they experience is as fleeting as the cheap toys that Santa leaves them.

Give Santa the boot this holiday season. When they hear about him from outside the home, tell them it is just a pretend game that some families play.

Don't encourage your kids to be idiots that believe in flying reindeer and a fatso in a magic sleigh that carries a tremendous amount of toys around the earth in a single night.

Instead, give your kids the gift of the scientific method and the quest for truth.
Boy, you're a real Killjoy.

Kids believe in Santa Claus up til about the age or six or seven when they start questioning the ability of a person, Santa, to actually being able to travel around the world delivering presents via a chimney to every child in the world all in one night. Kids up til that age are beginning to learn about their world having first learned the important lessons of like like walking, talking, speaking, etc... Most young children accept the world as they perceive it because they have nothing to compare it to so they are more willing to believe the myth of Santa Claus.

But is that a bad thing? I don't think so because young children have a difficult time grasping the concept of God whereas Santa is a concept they can process and accept as being believable with their limited intellectual capabilities. As children develop intellectually they naturally begin to question the world around them; that is the time when teaching them the scientific method should begin for it will carry them throughout their lives. But for now, let them enjoy their childhood.

USN - Retired
11-30-2014, 08:14 PM
A politically correct Christmas story...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nytkzah78eU

Absinthe Anecdote
11-30-2014, 08:41 PM
Boy, you're a real Killjoy.

Kids believe in Santa Claus up til about the age or six or seven when they start questioning the ability of a person, Santa, to actually being able to travel around the world delivering presents via a chimney to every child in the world all in one night. Kids up til that age are beginning to learn about their world having first learned the important lessons of like like walking, talking, speaking, etc... Most young children accept the world as they perceive it because they have nothing to compare it to so they are more willing to believe the myth of Santa Claus.

But is that a bad thing? I don't think so because young children have a difficult time grasping the concept of God whereas Santa is a concept they can process and accept as being believable with their limited intellectual capabilities. As children develop intellectually they naturally begin to question the world around them; that is the time when teaching them the scientific method should begin for it will carry them throughout their lives. But for now, let them enjoy their childhood.

I think you are selling small children short, they are capable of understanding so much more.

Besides, how are god and Santa that much different?

Both are watching them, judging their behavior from afar, and both supposedly punish and reward.

Kicking Santa out of your house doesn't kill any joy either.

Kids can have joy and fun in innumerable ways at the holiday season.

What's wrong with simply exchanging gifts with family members?

You can make it fun by getting the child to learn about what each member of the family likes, what they need, and what would be a good gift to give.

I think that sounds more fun and enriching for the whole family, instead of letting that ridiculous Santa story take center stage.

Five and Six year olds are incredibly smart and sweet. They can learn about what it means to give to others.

I really think the Santa tradition is insulting to children. They deserve respect just as much as any other member of the family.

I say they deserve better than being told lies, and having a ridiculous and elaborate prank played on them.

Plus, when I think about how so many parents hold the threat of Santa not bringing toys over their heads, it gets even more absurd.

That is nothing but weak parenting. Santa is a parenting tool for weak and lazy parents.

It is absurd.

I say a caring and imaginative parent can create joyful and lasting childhood memories without Santa.

Memories that have far more meaning and relevance to the rest of their lives.

As you said yourself, Santa has a very limited shelf life.

No, Santa isn't essential for joy in the mind of a child. If anything, he is a creator of dullards, and hopelessly shallow behavior.

I say again, "Give Santa the Boot!"

LogDog
11-30-2014, 08:53 PM
I think you are selling small children short, they are capable of understanding so much more.

Besides, how are god and Santa that much different?

Both are watching them, judging their behavior from afar, and both supposedly punish and reward.

Kicking Santa out of your house doesn't kill any joy either.

Kids can have joy and fun in innumerable ways at the holiday season.

What's wrong with simply exchanging gifts with family members?

You can make it fun by getting the child to learn about what each member of the family likes, what they need, and what would be a good gift to give.

I think that sounds more fun and enriching for the whole family, instead of letting that ridiculous Santa story take center stage.

Five and Six year olds are incredibly smart and sweet. They can learn about what it means to give to others.

I really think the Santa tradition is insulting to children. They deserve respect just as much as any other member of the family.

I say they deserve better than being told lies, and having a ridiculous and elaborate prank played on them.

Plus, when I think about how so many parents hold the threat of Santa not bringing toys over their heads, it gets even more absurd.

That is nothing but weak parenting. Santa is a parenting tool for weak and lazy parents.

It is absurd.

I say a caring and imaginative parent can create joyful and lasting childhood memories without Santa.

Memories that have far more meaning and relevance to the rest of their lives.

As you said yourself, Santa has a very limited shelf life.

No, Santa isn't essential for joy in the mind of a child. If anything, he is a creator of dullards, and hopelessly shallow behavior.

I say again, "Give Santa the Boot!"
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. Not all children are at the same intellectual level you give them.

Santa isn't a god but a commercially-adapted figure designed to increase sales of toys.

As for parenting, it's a parent's call as to whether they want to tell their kids to believe in Santa and all you're trying to do is interfere with their parenting. Overall, it does no harm to the child as you seem to think it does.

Why you have so much negativity in you I don't know but don't go spoiling it for the kids who believe. They'll learn at their own pace and it's not something that is important to life in general. It's no more harmless than believing in the Easter Bunny, Mickey Mouse, or Superman.

Absinthe Anecdote
11-30-2014, 09:46 PM
Sorry, but I have to disagree with you. Not all children are at the same intellectual level you give them.

Santa isn't a god but a commercially-adapted figure designed to increase sales of toys.

As for parenting, it's a parent's call as to whether they want to tell their kids to believe in Santa and all you're trying to do is interfere with their parenting. Overall, it does no harm to the child as you seem to think it does.

Why you have so much negativity in you I don't know but don't go spoiling it for the kids who believe. They'll learn at their own pace and it's not something that is important to life in general. It's no more harmless than believing in the Easter Bunny, Mickey Mouse, or Superman.

LOL!

First of all, I'm speaking my opinion in a public forum. How you make the jump to me interfering in a person's parenting is laughable.

Second, my message is actually very positive and uplifting.

Third, your contention that it is okay for a child to believe in superman or Mickey Mouse is just shatteringly bizarre and sad.

Lastly, your view of children as incapable of understanding anything more meaningful than Santa is completely wrong.

If one spends time teaching their children, the child's ability to learn and comprehend is nearly boundless.

If one just plops them down in front of the television, perhaps it is as you describe.

I'm actually encouraging people to be more involved with their kids instead of filling their heads with nonsensical Santa stories.

What's wrong with respecting a child enough not to play holiday pranks on them?

sandsjames
11-30-2014, 10:17 PM
The difference is that religious families talk about God and worship him on a relatively regular basis. The idea of Santa only comes up once a year. Kids aren't stupid...

Absinthe Anecdote
11-30-2014, 10:30 PM
The difference is that religious families talk about God and worship him on a relatively regular basis. The idea of Santa only comes up once a year. Kids aren't stupid...

That doesn't even follow with the manner in which the previous comparisons were made.

USN - Retired
11-30-2014, 10:41 PM
The difference is that religious families talk about God and worship him on a relatively regular basis. The idea of Santa only comes up once a year. Kids aren't stupid...

So if families talk about Santa and worship him on a relatively regular basis, will Santa then become real?

LogDog
11-30-2014, 11:54 PM
LOL!

First of all, I'm speaking my opinion in a public forum. How you make the jump to me interfering in a person's parenting is laughable.
We are all speaking our opinion on this public forum. As for your comment on parenting, I refer you to your own words in Post #9: "I say they deserve better than being told lies, and having a ridiculous and elaborate prank played on them.

Plus, when I think about how so many parents hold the threat of Santa not bringing toys over their heads, it gets even more absurd.

That is nothing but weak parenting. Santa is a parenting tool for weak and lazy parents."


Second, my message is actually very positive and uplifting.
In your opinion but I doubt many on this board or real life agree with you.


Third, your contention that it is okay for a child to believe in superman or Mickey Mouse is just shatteringly bizarre and sad.
Most child know Mickey Mouse and Superman are not real but just like adults like to identify with a movie or TV character they too know they're (the character) is not real. Characters such as these help children to use their imagination at play. After all, they are children and playing, including characters in their play, spurs their imagination.


Lastly, your view of children as incapable of understanding anything more meaningful than Santa is completely wrong.
Perhaps my problem in getting across to you is I'm writing to fast for your reading/comprehension speed so I'll write slower, just for you.

As children grow from infancy to about five years of age they are learning about their environment; that is, they are making connections as to what they see. An 18-month child see a cat
and associates it with a soft toy. They have little concept it is a living creature capable of feelings and thought. Their knowledge of the world is limited and as they interact with it they begin to learn. As they age and their ability to communicate becomes greater they can begin to understand concepts of good/bad, reward/punishment, etc... They can accept Santa at a young age because Santa is a grown-up person. They may not understand the meaning behind Santa but at their level of observing/questioning is still limited. It's not until about age four or five that they begin to really question the world about them trying to understand the contradictions they observe. As I stated earlier, they wonder how Santa can fly around the world delivering toys to every child around the world in one night. Their level of understanding is greater at age five than a child at age two.


If one spends time teaching their children, the child's ability to learn and comprehend is nearly boundless.
That's part of parenting and it is an on-going process from the day the child is born. The teaching has to be at the level the child can be expected to understand. If throwing in some fun like Santa is included then what's the harm?


If one just plops them down in front of the television, perhaps it is as you describe.
Sorry, but you've made a leap I never said or implied. If I'm wrong then please quote my post where I said this otherwise you are lying.


I'm actually encouraging people to be more involved with their kids instead of filling their heads with nonsensical Santa stories.
Encouraging parents to become more involved with their kids is good but why do you want to take the fun out of their lives. It sounds like you want everyone's kid to grow up to be Sheldon Coopers. It would be a funny world, no doubt, but a scary one.


What's wrong with respecting a child enough not to play holiday pranks on them?
We celebrate Thanksgiving with a bastardized version of what really happened just as we bastardize the truth life in the Old West substituting the facts that last well into and throughout adulthood. Children outgrown Santa and I see no harm being done to they. The only harm being done is to your ego because the world doesn't revolve around you and your beliefs.

sandsjames
12-01-2014, 12:46 AM
That doesn't even follow with the manner in which the previous comparisons were made.
So.........?

Absinthe Anecdote
12-01-2014, 12:55 AM
We are all speaking our opinion on this public forum. As for your comment on parenting, I refer you to your own words in Post #9: "I say they deserve better than being told lies, and having a ridiculous and elaborate prank played on them.

Plus, when I think about how so many parents hold the threat of Santa not bringing toys over their heads, it gets even more absurd.

That is nothing but weak parenting. Santa is a parenting tool for weak and lazy parents."


In your opinion but I doubt many on this board or real life agree with you.


Most child know Mickey Mouse and Superman are not real but just like adults like to identify with a movie or TV character they too know they're (the character) is not real. Characters such as these help children to use their imagination at play. After all, they are children and playing, including characters in their play, spurs their imagination.


Perhaps my problem in getting across to you is I'm writing to fast for your reading/comprehension speed so I'll write slower, just for you.

As children grow from infancy to about five years of age they are learning about their environment; that is, they are making connections as to what they see. An 18-month child see a cat
and associates it with a soft toy. They have little concept it is a living creature capable of feelings and thought. Their knowledge of the world is limited and as they interact with it they begin to learn. As they age and their ability to communicate becomes greater they can begin to understand concepts of good/bad, reward/punishment, etc... They can accept Santa at a young age because Santa is a grown-up person. They may not understand the meaning behind Santa but at their level of observing/questioning is still limited. It's not until about age four or five that they begin to really question the world about them trying to understand the contradictions they observe. As I stated earlier, they wonder how Santa can fly around the world delivering toys to every child around the world in one night. Their level of understanding is greater at age five than a child at age two.


That's part of parenting and it is an on-going process from the day the child is born. The teaching has to be at the level the child can be expected to understand. If throwing in some fun like Santa is included then what's the harm?


Sorry, but you've made a leap I never said or implied. If I'm wrong then please quote my post where I said this otherwise you are lying.


Encouraging parents to become more involved with their kids is good but why do you want to take the fun out of their lives. It sounds like you want everyone's kid to grow up to be Sheldon Coopers. It would be a funny world, no doubt, but a scary one.


We celebrate Thanksgiving with a bastardized version of what really happened just as we bastardize the truth life in the Old West substituting the facts that last well into and throughout adulthood. Children outgrown Santa and I see no harm being done to they. The only harm being done is to your ego because the world doesn't revolve around you and your beliefs.

You are embarrassing yourself.

You claim my reading comprehension is at fault, but you are going off on tangents and not even speaking to my points.

Plus, you are quoting post 9 in a very peculiar manner.

You might also want to check your spelling and word usage before you criticize my intellect.

I stand by my claim that the Santa tradition is bad.

It promotes shallow behavior in parent and child alike. It is a senseless prank played upon children that is ultimately disrespectful, and leads to disappointment.

Families can still have fun without Santa; plus, they can celebrate in ways that are more meaningful and that don't involve creating a hoax.

Also, if you happen to be a Christian, Santa is in direct conflict with the first commandment.

Earlier, you said Santa was created to increase toy sales. If so, all the more reason not to let that ridiculous tale take center stage at Christmas.

There are ample reasons to "give Santa the boot" in both the secular and Christian household.

sandsjames
12-01-2014, 01:04 AM
You might also want to check your spelling and word usage before you criticize my intellect.

Earlier, you said Santa was created increase toy sales.


You should triple check before posting after such a comment.

LogDog
12-01-2014, 01:09 AM
You are embarrassing yourself.

You claim my reading comprehension is at fault, but you are going off on tangents and not even speaking to my points.

Plus, you are quoting post 9 in a very peculiar manner.

You might also want to check your spelling and word usage before you criticize my intellect.

I stand by my claim that the Santa tradition is bad.

It promotes shallow behavior in parent and child alike. It is a senseless prank played upon children that is ultimately disrespectful, and leads to disappointment.

Families can still have fun without Santa; plus, they can celebrate in ways that are more meaningful and that don't involve creating a hoax.

Also, if you happen to be a Christian, Santa is in direct conflict with the first commandment.

Earlier, you said Santa was created increase toy sales. If so, all the more reason not to let that ridiculous tale take center stage at Christmas.

There are ample reasons to "give Santa the boot" in both the secular and Christian household.
So many words that say too little to support your position. What this comes down to, as usual with you, is your projecting your shortcomings onto others.

If you want to teach your kids Santa doesn't exist then that's your choice but don't criticize others if they want to teach their kids Santa is real. Do you go around telling kids who believe in Santa that Santa isn't real? If not, then doesn't that make you a hypocrite?

As for the first commandment, I am not a Christian; I'm an atheist and I have no problem with kids believing in Santa.

LogDog
12-01-2014, 01:14 AM
You should triple check before posting after such a comment.
To quote Homer Simpson: "D'OH!"

Absinthe Anecdote
12-01-2014, 01:26 AM
To quote Homer Simpson: "D'OH!"

I omitted one word. You were largely incoherent and your posts are rife with misspellings.

However, I'm not surprised to see you doing an end zone dance because I omitted the word "to."

UncaRastus
12-01-2014, 05:14 AM
In accordance with the Community Guidelines, I am asking the posters in the MTF to stop all of the trolling, belittling, looking for ways to get in here and cause dissension among the ranks, and to try to be a better person, not the one that has an ax to grind with all of the other posters, or at least most of them.

Belittling other posters only make the posters doing this look more and more like internet bullies.

"But he started it!"

What I am asking is if anyone makes your gorge rise, use the ignore feature. If it is used enough, the poster(s) that are at the root of this will be 'starved' out of doing this.

The Community Guidelines are rules. They are not suggestions.

I am asking all of you nicely. If this continues, I will follow the Community Guidelines on this. Please, don't make me take the step(s) that are in the Community Guidelines to alleviate this problem. This is my one and only request to you all, on this matter. Next time, if this continues, at least, you all have been warned.

Anyone can have a bad day. Everyone has days of stress. Once in awhile, posters do snap. This is not the case in here. Singular statements are one thing. The bigger problem has to stopped.


UR
Super Moderator

Capt Alfredo
12-01-2014, 09:33 AM
The Christmas season is fast approaching and all over America, parents are once again pulling the stupid Santa prank on their children.

I'd like to urge anyone considering playing this silly prank on their small children to reconsider.

I say that it is just a mean trick that is potentially harmful to your kids. You are making your kids look stupid by fooling them like that.

When they do find out that Santa isn't real, they will most likely be embarrassed that they were tricked by such nonsense. If they aren't, then they will likely be saddened to find out it was just a big hoax.

I say that fooling your children in this manner is a tremendous violation of trust between parent and child.

Your kids depend on you for everything, especially knowledge, and what a colossal failure of passing on knowledge it is to fool them in believing such an absurd tale.

There isn't even anything good that ultimately comes from doing this. Any joy they experience is as fleeting as the cheap toys that Santa leaves them.

Give Santa the boot this holiday season. When they hear about him from outside the home, tell them it is just a pretend game that some families play.

Don't encourage your kids to be idiots that believe in flying reindeer and a fatso in a magic sleigh that carries a tremendous amount of toys around the earth in a single night.

Instead, give your kids the gift of the scientific method and the quest for truth.

Your persuasive speech for that Anne Arundel Community College Public Speaking class? Go CCAF!

Rusty Jones
12-01-2014, 10:34 AM
I don't think that there's anything wrong with children believing in Santa Claus. If you think about it, it appears that the story of Santa Claus is purposely set up so that children will figure out that he's not real by the age of 7 or 8.

When I look back to my childhood, I don't really compare Santa Claus to God. I actually compare Santa to wrestling.

Think about it... when you were a child and you watched wrestling, you thought it was real... correct? I know I did. It wasn't until I hit my preteens that I learned that wrestling was fake. Was I disappointed? Sure. Believing that wrestling was real was an awesome part of my childhood, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Learning that wrestling was fake, although it sucked, was part of growing up.

I look at the belief in Santa Claus, and subsequently learning that he isn't real, the same way.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-01-2014, 12:41 PM
I don't think that there's anything wrong with children believing in Santa Claus. If you think about it, it appears that the story of Santa Claus is purposely set up so that children will figure out that he's not real by the age of 7 or 8.

When I look back to my childhood, I don't really compare Santa Claus to God. I actually compare Santa to wrestling.

Think about it... when you were a child and you watched wrestling, you thought it was real... correct? I know I did. It wasn't until I hit my preteens that I learned that wrestling was fake. Was I disappointed? Sure. Believing that wrestling was real was an awesome part of my childhood, and I wouldn't have it any other way. Learning that wrestling was fake, although it sucked, was part of growing up.

I look at the belief in Santa Claus, and subsequently learning that he isn't real, the same way.

Wrestling? You mean that Hulk Hogan shit?

Oh my! 10,000 times worse than Santa.

What a horrible thing to let children watch, and letting them believe it is real!

That's neglect in my book.

Rusty Jones
12-01-2014, 01:02 PM
Wrestling? You mean that Hulk Hogan shit?

Oh my! 10,000 times worse than Santa.

What a horrible thing to let children watch, and letting them believe it is real!

That's neglect in my book.

You know what the real neglect is? Most cartoons. The good guy always wins in children's cartoons. The Autobots always defeat the Decepticons, G.I. Joe always beats Cobra, He-Man always beats Skeletor, etc, etc. What is that teaching our children?

You know what I always loved about wrestling? Sometimes, the bad guy wins. And it's not a rare occurance, either - it's 50/50.

Stalwart
12-01-2014, 01:24 PM
For us, Santa isn't about religion ... it is simply the innocence of childhood; something we are very much loving with our daughter for what will be her first Christmas. We are enjoying the way her face is lighting up when she sees an image of Santa and talks about him coming to our house. Kids find joy and wonder in the world whether or not you create fantasies for them. With this we are creating a little bit of the joy for her. There really isn't much time where she will be like this, soon other things will take precedence and her finding great marvel at simply playing with dirt and rocks, or in the fantasy of Santa, the Easter Bunny or the Tooth Fairy make her happy; I am sure she will find something else to hate me for in the future.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-01-2014, 02:23 PM
You know what the real neglect is? Most cartoons. The good guy always wins in children's cartoons. The Autobots always defeat the Decepticons, G.I. Joe always beats Cobra, He-Man always beats Skeletor, etc, etc. What is that teaching our children?

You know what I always loved about wrestling? Sometimes, the bad guy wins. And it's not a rare occurance, either - it's 50/50.

I never let my kids watch cartoons like that either.

I'm talking about under eight years old. There are so many more worth while things to expose them to.

I disagree with the notion that when children are very young that it should be all play. When they are at that very young age they will believe anything you tell them.

It is the only time in their lives where you will have complete control of what they are exposed to. Why waste that time telling them crap that isn't true or letting them watch wrestling.

You can have preschool kids reading and doing basic math. It isn't that hard either, they soak it up.

I think it is a shame to let little ones watch garbage cartoons or wrestling.

They need to be prepared for entering the world. Wrestling, GI Joe, Autobots, and Santa are a big waste of time.

Rainmaker
12-01-2014, 02:34 PM
We will just add that to the already long list of things you don't know.

Nothing good comes from fooling one's children in this manner.

It amounts to nothing more than of making one's child out to be a fool.

Children deserve much better, they deserve to be taught knowledge, not tricked into believing nonsense for the amusement of the parent.

I would think a loving parent would be against clouding a child's mind with nonsense on principle alone.

And for our Christian friends, there is something called the first commandment to consider.

Exodus 20:1-17 New International Version (NIV)

3 “You shall have no other gods before me.

If Santa isn't a god like being, I don't know what is. He is reported to be omniscient, capable of knowing who is naughty or nice. He knows when children are asleep, or awake.

Some parents even take the Santa nonsense so far as to have their children writing letters, or making requests that are tantamount to prayers.

But alas, we have already discussed how ignorant the majority of Christians are of their own scripture.

I'm not surprised that you'd speak up in favor of Santa. I guess some people have a need to believe in myths and fairy tales.

It isn't healthy or rational behavior, and if you are a Christian, it is even in conflict with your religion.

One would think that being against the Santa myth would be one area of agreement for the Atheist and Christian, but apparently not.

Tsk Tsk

Can't spell Santa without Satan...

http://www.amazon.com/Consuming-Kids-Hostile-Takeover-Childhood/dp/1565847830

Rainmaker
12-01-2014, 03:33 PM
In accordance with the Community Guidelines, I am asking the posters in the MTF to stop all of the trolling, belittling, looking for ways to get in here and cause dissension among the ranks, and to try to be a better person, not the one that has an ax to grind with all of the other posters, or at least most of them.

Belittling other posters only make the posters doing this look more and more like internet bullies.

"But he started it!"

What I am asking is if anyone makes your gorge rise, use the ignore feature. If it is used enough, the poster(s) that are at the root of this will be 'starved' out of doing this.

The Community Guidelines are rules. They are not suggestions.

I am asking all of you nicely. If this continues, I will follow the Community Guidelines on this. Please, don't make me take the step(s) that are in the Community Guidelines to alleviate this problem. This is my one and only request to you all, on this matter. Next time, if this continues, at least, you all have been warned.

Anyone can have a bad day. Everyone has days of stress. Once in awhile, posters do snap. This is not the case in here. Singular statements are one thing. The bigger problem has to stopped.


UR
Super Moderator

With all due respect to his super Moderatorness, It should be obvious to everyone that the man was speaking tongue in cheek. Errbody loves Santa. Even the Militant Atheists.. Do we need to start using Sarc Tags lest anyone get their little feelings hurt?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thoughtcrime

BENDER56
12-01-2014, 07:59 PM
The difference is that religious families talk about God and worship him on a relatively regular basis. The idea of Santa only comes up once a year. Kids aren't stupid...

Not sure what that means. Does that mean believing in religion is 365.242 times worse than believing in Santa?

Also, kids are stupid -- half of them, anyway. Half of all humans have a below-average IQ. Why should kids be any different? Or do you live in Lake Wobegon?

sandsjames
12-01-2014, 08:06 PM
Not sure what that means. Does that mean believing in religion is 365.242 times worse than believing in Santa? No...


Also, kids are stupid -- half of them, anyway. Half of all humans have a below-average IQ. Why should kids be any different? Or do you live in Lake Wobegon?Then why don't ever (or extremely rarely) see teenagers who still believe in Santa?

BENDER56
12-02-2014, 08:25 PM
Then why don't [we] ever (or extremely rarely) see teenagers who still believe in Santa?

Setting the bar for not being stupid kinda low, don't you think?

sandsjames
12-02-2014, 08:36 PM
Setting the bar for not being stupid kinda low, don't you think?

Just relating it to your response, as you were the one who implied that kids might not be smart enough to understand Santa not being real.

BENDER56
12-02-2014, 09:29 PM
Just relating it to your response, as you were the one who implied that kids might not be smart enough to understand Santa not being real.

Perhaps you inferred that my comment about kids being stupid had something to do with their belief in Santa Claus, but I didn't mean it that way. I merely saw what I believe to be an incorrect statement -- "Kids aren't stupid..." -- and challenged it. Kids are stupid ... half of them, anyways.

sandsjames
12-02-2014, 10:05 PM
Perhaps you inferred that my comment about kids being stupid had something to do with their belief in Santa Claus, but I didn't mean it that way. I merely saw what I believe to be an incorrect statement -- "Kids aren't stupid..." -- and challenged it. Kids are stupid ... half of them, anyways.

Sure, when it comes to scholastics...but then again, so are most adults.

sandsjames
12-03-2014, 07:15 PM
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/opinion/sutter-gay-santa-claus/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Posted here merely because it's a Santa thread...

It's nice to know that trolling has come to the "real news" outlets.

What's funny is it mentions that there is a gay Santa in Texas, but nobody cares. Nobody is complaining, and the "journalist" is surprised. Not because he thinks it's a big deal, but because he's surprised nobody else does.

He even goes on to make a comment about "pedophilia" and sitting on a gay Santa's lap, shocked that nobody is saying it.

So, it's a report about something that isn't happening, intended to do nothing but get people bitching.

Anyway, just found it interesting.

Measure Man
12-03-2014, 07:24 PM
Also, kids are stupid -- half of them, anyway. Half of all humans have a below-average IQ.

Self-fulfilling by definition.

No matter how smart people get, half will always be below the average.

Well technically, it's possible a few extremely low outliers could bring the average down...but assuming fairly normal distribution...by definition, half the population will always be below the average.

The reminds me of when a buddy of mine was moved up to become the MAJCOM Functional...and one of his duties was to write the MAJCOM supplement to AFI 21-101. In that, he made it mandatory for every shop to beat the command-average on a metric. Pretty hilarious.

Absinthe Anecdote
12-04-2014, 12:24 AM
http://www.cnn.com/2014/12/03/opinion/sutter-gay-santa-claus/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Posted here merely because it's a Santa thread...

It's nice to know that trolling has come to the "real news" outlets.

What's funny is it mentions that there is a gay Santa in Texas, but nobody cares. Nobody is complaining, and the "journalist" is surprised. Not because he thinks it's a big deal, but because he's surprised nobody else does.

He even goes on to make a comment about "pedophilia" and sitting on a gay Santa's lap, shocked that nobody is saying it.

So, it's a report about something that isn't happening, intended to do nothing but get people bitching.

Anyway, just found it interesting.

Some of those dudes that are really into playing Santa are weird as hell. There was one that lived on the end of my block when I was a kid.

Lived in a Herman Munster looking house, all overgrown with weeds, Christmas decorations up all year long, packs of stray cats roaming all over the yard.

Rode around on a loud old rusty motorcyle that belched smoke, and of course it had a sidecar.

Those dudes are creeps, he even wore a fucking cape sometimes!

Who in their right mind wears a cape while riding a 1919 motorcycle with a sidecar?

Fucking creeps, those full time Santas.

BENDER56
12-04-2014, 06:35 PM
Self-fulfilling by definition.

No matter how smart people get, half will always be below the average.

Well technically, it's possible a few extremely low outliers could bring the average down...but assuming fairly normal distribution...by definition, half the population will always be below the average.

Um ... yeah. That's just a repeat of what I'm saying. Did you think I meant something more than that?

I hadn't thought about it, but outliers in a subgroup could cause that group's average to be lower than the overall population's average, but I'm talking about the population as a whole.

Further, we both could be wrong -- half the population is above and below the median score, not necessarily the average score. However, I think the average and median points on the IQ curve of the entire population are close enough that we can be excused.


The reminds me of when a buddy of mine was moved up to become the MAJCOM Functional...and one of his duties was to write the MAJCOM supplement to AFI 21-101. In that, he made it mandatory for every shop to beat the command-average on a metric. Pretty hilarious.

That is funny, but in a sad kind of way.

Measure Man
12-04-2014, 07:04 PM
Um ... yeah. That's just a repeat of what I'm saying. Did you think I meant something more than that?

I took your post for what it said. Your point was that people are stupid and for support you offered that half the people are below average. I was just pointing out that your evidence does not support your point.



I hadn't thought about it, but outliers in a subgroup could cause that group's average to be lower than the overall population's average, but I'm talking about the population as a whole.

Technically it could happen in the population as a whole....it would have to be a really funny skew


Further, we both could be wrong -- half the population is above and below the median score, not necessarily the average score. However, I think the average and median points on the IQ curve of the entire population are close enough that we can be excused.

That is correct...which is the whole reason I put in the disclaimer.




That is funny, but in a sad kind of way.

Yeah....excellent goal for an individual base, ridiculous as a command goal. I think, coming from a wing level, he just got so used to saying it, he forgot what it meant. We gave him sufficient crap about it for quite awhile

BENDER56
12-04-2014, 07:23 PM
Technically it could happen in the population as a whole....it would have to be a really funny skew

Oops. You're right.

I'm assuming the curve is symmetrical, which is what I learned, but yeah, it could have a skew.