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sandsjames
11-14-2014, 11:54 AM
More proof that the Air Force doesn't REALLY care about you being educated as long as you tick all the boxes. Before applying for TA, you have to attempt the CLEP or DANTES first. I guess if you want to actually take a class and learn something you just need to bomb the test first.

Rusty Jones
11-14-2014, 12:18 PM
More proof that the Air Force doesn't REALLY care about you being educated as long as you tick all the boxes. Before applying for TA, you have to attempt the CLEP or DANTES first. I guess if you want to actually take a class and learn something you just need to bomb the test first.

You can thank the Navy for setting that precedent, as they've been doing that since 2006.

Though, if you think about it, that's not a bad idea. If you already know the material anyway, why should the taxpayers foot the bill? With every 10 courses that the Air Force no longer pays for in a particular year, that's another Airman that they don't have to kick out when money is tight.

SomeRandomGuy
11-14-2014, 12:57 PM
More proof that the Air Force doesn't REALLY care about you being educated as long as you tick all the boxes. Before applying for TA, you have to attempt the CLEP or DANTES first. I guess if you want to actually take a class and learn something you just need to bomb the test first.

I actually find this kind of odd. When I was a new airman my supervisor encouraged me to explore taking CLEP tests. I went over to the education office to see what was avaliable. The lady handed me the list and I asked when I could take one of them. She said tests were given every thrusday at 1PM. It happened to be a wednesday so I asked if I could sign up to CLEP Introduction to Literature tomorrow. The lady gave me the meanest look and said, "This is a college level exam" I said yes Ma'am I know can I take it tomorrow? She then told me that people are abusing the system. They sign up for a CLEP, tell their supervisor they are going to take a test for the next few hours (probably the rest of the afternoon) then they go to the education center, spend above 10 minutes failing the test on purpose, then go home.

I hope that lady still doesn't work at the education office. She is going to be very bitter when people are signing up for the test so they can intentionally fail it.

efmbman
11-14-2014, 02:30 PM
You can thank the Navy for setting that precedent, as they've been doing that since 2006.

Though, if you think about it, that's not a bad idea. If you already know the material anyway, why should the taxpayers foot the bill? With every 10 courses that the Air Force no longer pays for in a particular year, that's another Airman that they don't have to kick out when money is tight.

When I was CLEPing, it was encouraged as well. There was an annual cap on the amount one troop could use in TA in a FY. So every CLEP that was successful meant the TA money was still available and you got college credit to boot. Win - win from where I was sitting. Why sit though a semester in a class that you already know? Demonstrate the knowledge and move on. Too easy.

LogDog
11-14-2014, 06:58 PM
That's really not a bad idea. Using CLEP and DANTES to test away basic courses makes sense. Why spend time and money being in a classroom when you don't need to and with no guarantee you'll complete the course. I'll admit, not everyone can pass the CLEP or DANTES but with a little effort it could be done. You could scheduled to take a CLEP test on English and if you don't pass it you can study on what you feel you had problems with and retake the test or take the DANTES test. At the NCO Academy in Germany in the mid-80s, yea I know I'm dating myself, they told us of an instructor who'd take a CLEP in the morning and during lunch study the areas he felt unsure about and then take a DANTES test in the afternoon. He completed his prerequisite courses that way and then applied the same strategy towards his Bachelor's degree through the University of New York's Reagent External Degree Program. He was able to test away almost all of his courses with little time in the classroom.

Like I said, it makes sense and it saves money which could be applied to the upper division courses which is where the main requirements for a degree reside.

hgarmorer
11-20-2014, 12:53 PM
More proof that the Air Force doesn't REALLY care about you being educated as long as you tick all the boxes. Before applying for TA, you have to attempt the CLEP or DANTES first. I guess if you want to actually take a class and learn something you just need to bomb the test first.

I just took the TA refresher course, and that wasn't mentioned at all. CLEP and DANTEs procedures were, but not this topic. I wonder if it's installation specific?

Max Power
11-20-2014, 06:21 PM
More proof that the Air Force doesn't REALLY care about you being educated as long as you tick all the boxes. Before applying for TA, you have to attempt the CLEP or DANTES first. I guess if you want to actually take a class and learn something you just need to bomb the test first.

That is true if you are an instructor who doesn't have their CCAF yet, but not for others. It was the same thing I had to do when I was a 3-level instructor years ago. It is part of the contract that they are supposed to sign saying that they will complete the requirements within 12 months. It is smart on the Air Forces part since the CLEP/DANTES is much cheaper than a class.

AF Comm Guy
11-23-2014, 01:27 PM
This is sad. I never realized what a bunch of cheapskates you guys all were until now. CLEP and DANTES tests are not a useful measure of college level knowledge and they certainly don't compare to taking a class in person. Any moron can pass these tests with a minimum of study. I understand taking them if you plan to move to higher level courses and this is just a time saving measure but to take a shotgun approach to testing and see what sticks? That's just cheap. I can understand now why the AF did away with funding these test programs.

As for the OP, that sounds like a base level requirement. Either that or you got another GS-6 douche bag who doesn't want to do their job. I've certainly run into plenty of them at various education offices. If you want to take the class then go back to the TA office and insist.

sandsjames
11-23-2014, 02:10 PM
This is sad. I never realized what a bunch of cheapskates you guys all were until now. CLEP and DANTES tests are not a useful measure of college level knowledge and they certainly don't compare to taking a class in person. Any moron can pass these tests with a minimum of study. I understand taking them if you plan to move to higher level courses and this is just a time saving measure but to take a shotgun approach to testing and see what sticks? That's just cheap. I can understand now why the AF did away with funding these test programs.

As for the OP, that sounds like a base level requirement. Either that or you got another GS-6 douche bag who doesn't want to do their job. I've certainly run into plenty of them at various education offices. If you want to take the class then go back to the TA office and insist.

It's not base level. It's AF level.

Zxc
11-25-2014, 09:28 PM
This change matters because some Airmen may want to take actual classes rather than receiving CLEP credit, because if they intend to continue their education many decent schools will not accept those credits. They're basically being denied their basic classes unless they submit to online education.

For students who plan on using the TA to get their low level classes out of the way and then separating and going to school full-time/in residence, this is a huge barrier that invites them to purposefully bomb the CLEPs so that they can receive the credits they need to pursue their long-term education goals.

Zxc
11-25-2014, 09:52 PM
It's not base level. It's AF level.


I can't seem to find this policy anywhere--anyone have a link?

Stalwart
11-26-2014, 06:53 PM
This is sad. I never realized what a bunch of cheapskates you guys all were until now. CLEP and DANTES tests are not a useful measure of college level knowledge and they certainly don't compare to taking a class in person.

Yes, I would agree ... butt in chair learning is better than a CLEP test. But if you are limited in TA funds, and it isn't a bottomless pit of money ... does it make sense to pay for a class that you exhibit the required knowledge in?


This change matters because some Airmen may want to take actual classes rather than receiving CLEP credit, because if they intend to continue their education many decent schools will not accept those credits. They're basically being denied their basic classes unless they submit to online education.

For students who plan on using the TA to get their low level classes out of the way and then separating and going to school full-time/in residence, this is a huge barrier that invites them to purposefully bomb the CLEPs so that they can receive the credits they need to pursue their long-term education goals.

That is a good point, never thought about that. That said, I attended a total of 7 colleges / universities before fiishing my undergrad degree (my transcript was a real pain to go over). Gonzaga & George Mason both accepted my CLEP testing for my degree plan with no issue.

sandsjames
11-26-2014, 07:07 PM
I can't seem to find this policy anywhere--anyone have a link?I've been searching. Someone else was correct. It does seem to just be a local education office thing here at Sheppard. I didn't know they could make up their own rules.

Stalwart
11-26-2014, 07:10 PM
I've been searching. Someone else was correct. It does seem to just be a local education office thing here at Sheppard. I didn't know they could make up their own rules.

In 'general' a commander can make a senior's rule more restrictive ... but not make their own rule more lax. That said ... if this is just a local rule, and considering what Zxc said about CLEP classes not tranferring to all universities, I would probably be prompted to talk to the Senior Enlisted as my first stop.

BRUWIN
12-02-2014, 12:29 PM
Good idea....no sense spending money on stuff troops already know. This should have been done years ago.

BRUWIN
12-02-2014, 12:32 PM
This change matters because some Airmen may want to take actual classes rather than receiving CLEP credit, because if they intend to continue their education many decent schools will not accept those credits. They're basically being denied their basic classes unless they submit to online education.



If you have a degree program lined up with a school than they can't deny you the classes you need.

This rule sounds like a good rule in that they are trying to save money on those trying to tick the CCAF box.

All you guys whine too much, get paid too much, and get waaaay too many good looking females. We I first came in we paid for CCAF classes and books and the few women in the military were all dykes. Be grateful for what you have.

Airborne
12-04-2014, 02:33 AM
All you guys whine too much, get paid too much, and get waaaay too many good looking females. We I first came in we paid for CCAF classes and books and the few women in the military were all dykes. Be grateful for what you have.

I havent even been in that long but this times 1000.