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garhkal
10-08-2014, 07:38 PM
Do you feel its time we as a country adopted a national language, like practically every other country in the world has done?
If so, which language do you think it should be?

sandsjames
10-08-2014, 08:00 PM
Do you feel its time we as a country adopted a national language, like practically every other country in the world has done?
If so, which language do you think it should be?

Honestly, I don't see the purpose. What would the national language do for us? We're getting by alright with one. The only outcome I could see from a national language would be a creation of more infighting related to it. If there is one thing we don't need, it's more infighting.

TJMAC77SP
10-08-2014, 08:09 PM
Honestly, I don't see the purpose. What would the national language do for us? We're getting by alright with one. The only outcome I could see from a national language would be a creation of more infighting related to it. If there is one thing we don't need, it's more infighting.

There would indeed be fighting and to be truthful we would have to actually have more than one official language (many ethnically diverse countries do) so I don't think anything would be accomplished by the move and certainly not what most proponents would seek.

Having said that I do think that we all need to acknowledge that a sense of assimilation is lacking in many minority communities. I think this drives much of the perceptions that drive these suggestions.

Measure Man
10-08-2014, 08:14 PM
Do you feel its time we as a country adopted a national language, like practically every other country in the world has done?
If so, which language do you think it should be?

Yes, and Spanish.

sandsjames
10-08-2014, 08:49 PM
Yes, and Spanish.

Would have been much better if you had said "Si, y Espanol". It's all about timing and delivery.

TJMAC77SP
10-08-2014, 09:47 PM
Most estimates have non-Hispanic whites (English as a first language types for those keeping score) in the minority no later than 2035 so MM is right, Spanish might end up the official language of the US.

LogDog
10-08-2014, 10:57 PM
The question is "Is there a real need for making English the official language?"

CYBERFX1024
10-09-2014, 01:46 AM
Most estimates have non-Hispanic whites (English as a first language types for those keeping score) in the minority no later than 2035 so MM is right, Spanish might end up the official language of the US.

Why does everyone keep talking about Spanish being the National Language? The only reason people are even talking about it is because of the amount of Illegal Immigrants there are in the country and how many we keep allowing in everyday. But the majority of LEGAL Immigrants actually speak some form of English at some level.

Yes, English should be the NATIONAL Language except for in Puerto Rico, there it should be Spanish and English,

CYBERFX1024
10-09-2014, 01:50 AM
The question is "Is there a real need for making English the official language?"

Yes, there is a HUGE need for it. This is because it seems that every single day there is another assault on the English Language by Spanish speaking people. While the rest of the world uses English as a Working and Business Language.
India has 1400 languages and there are only two National Languages, English and Hindi. I have seen people from different parts of India that could not communicate with each other in Hindi so they had to resort to using English. Also I have seen people from all parts of the globe use English as a means of conversing and working.

CYBERFX1024
10-09-2014, 01:56 AM
There would indeed be fighting and to be truthful we would have to actually have more than one official language (many ethnically diverse countries do) so I don't think anything would be accomplished by the move and certainly not what most proponents would seek.
Having said that I do think that we all need to acknowledge that a sense of assimilation is lacking in many minority communities. I think this drives much of the perceptions that drive these suggestions.

I agree with you. 100 years ago there was a sense of assimilation that people had to learn English to get ahead, all the while keeping their own culture and language. But now there is no sense of that and some people believe that the government should accommodate them.

That's why I hate living in California. I go to some places and people don't speak English at all, and assume my wife can speak it because she looks Hispanic. My wife is a Filipina and can speak 4 languages fluently but understand another one. Even if someone has an accent that's ok at least they can speak English. Hell, my neighbor's mother speaks english with a heavy mexican accent, but that's fine with me because at least she has learned it.

Capt Alfredo
10-09-2014, 02:07 AM
Yes, there is a HUGE need for it. This is because it seems that every single day there is another assault on the English Language by Spanish speaking people. While the rest of the world uses English as a Working and Business Language.
India has 1400 languages and there are only two National Languages, English and Hindi. I have seen people from different parts of India that could not communicate with each other in Hindi so they had to resort to using English. Also I have seen people from all parts of the globe use English as a means of conversing and working.

Assault on the English language? Like what? Examples, please. The de facto language of business in the whole world is English. That happens to include the United States. You're not going to find any white collar or other professional jobs in the country where speaking English isn't mandatory. Some dude mowing your lawn? Not very relevant. Also, every second-generation immigrant embraces English and most new arrivals will learn as much as they can, to the point where a lot forbid their children from speaking the native tongue.

TJMAC77SP
10-09-2014, 02:44 AM
Why does everyone keep talking about Spanish being the National Language? The only reason people are even talking about it is because of the amount of Illegal Immigrants there are in the country and how many we keep allowing in everyday. But the majority of LEGAL Immigrants actually speak some form of English at some level.

Yes, English should be the NATIONAL Language except for in Puerto Rico, there it should be Spanish and English,

I could be wrong but I don't think the estimates on demographic changes account for illegal aliens.

MikeKerriii
10-09-2014, 04:27 AM
Do you feel its time we as a country adopted a national language, like practically every other country in the world has done?
If so, which language do you think it should be?

No it is not time, there is no need to do so.

LogDog
10-09-2014, 05:15 AM
Yes, there is a HUGE need for it. This is because it seems that every single day there is another assault on the English Language by Spanish speaking people. While the rest of the world uses English as a Working and Business Language.
India has 1400 languages and there are only two National Languages, English and Hindi. I have seen people from different parts of India that could not communicate with each other in Hindi so they had to resort to using English. Also I have seen people from all parts of the globe use English as a means of conversing and working.
Sorry, but I just don't see any evidence from your response of an assault on the the English language. Your response is more akin to that of a Xenophobe or else you'd have been able to provide factual examples to support your statement. Fear mongering is effective on those who don't think or examine an issue very closely.

As for people in India not being able to understand others from different parts of India, so what? In Germany, there are a lot of regional dialects so different from each other that people literally living 20 kilometers apart can't understand each other. That's why they have what's called High German and Low German languages. High German is the "proper" use of German and one which almost every German can understand whereas Low German is is regional dialect and only understood in a small area of Germany.

garhkal
10-09-2014, 05:26 AM
I agree with you. 100 years ago there was a sense of assimilation that people had to learn English to get ahead, all the while keeping their own culture and language. But now there is no sense of that and some people believe that the government should accommodate them.


It's not just 100 years ago though. I have known and worked with people who's grand parents (or great grand parents) came over after WW2, Korea and in some cases Vietnam who learned English as part of their road to citizenship, and they did it Gladly. It seems (to me at least) a good chunk of those crossing from south of the border, not only don't want to learn English, but want US to have to cater to them and speak Spanish/Portuguese.


That's why I hate living in California. I go to some places and people don't speak English at all, and assume my wife can speak it because she looks Hispanic. My wife is a Filipina and can speak 4 languages fluently but understand another one.

Or you go to some areas in Florida, Texas, Arizona etc, and to even Get a job, you need to speak Spanish fluently.

Capt Alfredo
10-09-2014, 03:39 PM
It's not just 100 years ago though. I have known and worked with people who's grand parents (or great grand parents) came over after WW2, Korea and in some cases Vietnam who learned English as part of their road to citizenship, and they did it Gladly. It seems (to me at least) a good chunk of those crossing from south of the border, not only don't want to learn English, but want US to have to cater to them and speak Spanish/Portuguese.



Or you go to some areas in Florida, Texas, Arizona etc, and to even Get a job, you need to speak Spanish fluently.

Proof, please. Otherwise just talking out of your bung hole, as usual. Cite some evidence. You know, something that proves your point.

Rainmaker
10-09-2014, 05:03 PM
The whole country is turning into Miami-Dade County, which is a great place to live so long as you are rich.

LogDog
10-09-2014, 05:13 PM
The whole country is turning into Miami-Dade County, which is a great place to live so long as you are rich.
How is it turning into Miami-Dade County? Please provide links citing facts on how the change in happening in the whole country. You can use examples in states like Wyoming, Iowa, Vermont, and Hawaii since these are small states and the effect you claim would be more dramatic and easier to prove.

sandsjames
10-09-2014, 07:18 PM
The whole country is turning into Miami-Dade County, which is a great place to live so long as you are rich.

Yes...stats, proof, links, reports...otherwise you are not allowed to have opinions based on your observations

Rainmaker
10-09-2014, 07:24 PM
How is it turning into Miami-Dade County? Please provide links citing facts on how the change in happening in the whole country. You can use examples in states like Wyoming, Iowa, Vermont, and Hawaii since these are small states and the effect you claim would be more dramatic and easier to prove.

Well, Rainmaker was generalizing as, he recently traveled thru Miami for the first time since 2000 and whole areas of Dade County that used to be fairly nice are now shitholes where most of the residents look like the cast of Apocalypto. Went to a restaurant on Key Biscayne where the menu was in Spanish and none of the wait staff could (or would) speak English. Beach is nice but, you need to be a millionaire to live there and beer cost 9 bucks.

Either way, We can go back and forth with the posting demographics numbers all you want. But, the demographic changes of this Nation and wealth disparity between the top .01% and the rest of us has been pretty clearly documented.

But, Rainmaker will just give you a couple of links for thought (and you can give him 2 opposing links to consider)

Since 2001:

http://www.businessinsider.com/deindustrialization-factory-closing-2010-9?op=1

http://cis.org/all-employment-growth-since-2000-went-to-immigrants


The cultural and demographic destruction of this nation is a quick path to the U.S becoming a 3rd world state. NAFTA was the taking down of our borders. Yes, It started long before President Ebola. But, he has just accelerated the policies that got us here. In the end there comes a quickening.

Now if you'll excuse me ladies. Rainmaker Gotta go to the spider hole on his property and fire up his colloidal silver generator. Gnomesayin?

Rainmaker
10-09-2014, 07:26 PM
Yes...stats, proof, links, reports...otherwise you are not allowed to have opinions based on your observations

Who you gonna believe? the government or your lyin eyes?

sandsjames
10-09-2014, 07:31 PM
Who you gonna believe? the government or your lyin eyes?I'd never believe my lyin' eyes. I'll always believe those officials elected by the educated masses to make me aware of what's going on in my neighborhood.

CYBERFX1024
10-09-2014, 08:00 PM
Proof, please. Otherwise just talking out of your bung hole, as usual. Cite some evidence. You know, something that proves your point.

Why don't you talk to people that actually immigrated over here Legally and you will find the answer to that. My wife and a another person at my work immigrated here Legally and they speak Fluent American English. My wife and I have worked really hard to get her English on the level of almost a Natural Speaker and she is almost there. There are still some thing that trip her up but 98% of the time she is fine. She still knows how to speak 3 other languages fluently and use at least 2 of them on a daily and weekly basis. Even the Chinese and Armenians here in SoCal who immigrate here legally try to learn English.

Then you turn to the Illegal Immigrants and the majority of them can barely speak English if at all, and feel no use of learning it either. This is because everyone wants to be so damn PC that it is "wrong to force them to learn English". When they need to learn English to live, work, and converse throughout this country.

Where do you live in the US? Because I can guarantee it is not in the SW part or you would know the truth.

garhkal
10-09-2014, 10:07 PM
Proof, please. Otherwise just talking out of your bung hole, as usual. Cite some evidence. You know, something that proves your point.

Just doing a Bing search for US jobs requiring spanish, got me the following..
http://www.ehow.com/about_5376628_jobs-require-spanish.html

http://jobview.monster.com/member-services-representative-spanish-speaking-job-philadelphia-pa-us-140403953.aspx

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110911134030AANm6md

That enough for you?

MikeKerriii
10-10-2014, 04:00 AM
Why does everyone keep talking about Spanish being the National Language? The only reason people are even talking about it is because of the amount of Illegal Immigrants there are in the country and how many we keep allowing in everyday. But the majority of LEGAL Immigrants actually speak some form of English at some level.

Yes, English should be the NATIONAL Language except for in Puerto Rico, there it should be Spanish and English,

It could also Be that there are cities in the US where Spanish was spoken before Jamestown or and English coloniy was founded, multiple cities in fact

Capt Alfredo
10-10-2014, 04:18 AM
Just doing a Bing search for US jobs requiring spanish, got me the following..
http://www.ehow.com/about_5376628_jobs-require-spanish.html

Did you read your own article?? The jobs cited include...Spanish teacher, Border Patrol Agent, Interpreter/Translator, and International Business. Shocking and scandalous that those jobs would require Spanish skills (and English, by the way, which ruins your proposition completely). I was referring back to the original statement that in places "to even get a job you need to speak Spanish" - want to rephrase that?


http://jobview.monster.com/member-services-representative-spanish-speaking-job-philadelphia-pa-us-140403953.aspx

One position that requires a *bilingual* speaker of English and Spanish. Not exactly what you intimated in your original post. Care to revisit that?



https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110911134030AANm6md

That enough for you?

Did you read this one, either? Or just do a search and blindly cut and paste? This post is someone asking if there are any jobs that require Spanish and the answer is NO - just that it would help someone to be bilingual. Well, duh.

Still waiting for something that remotely proves your point that people just can't even sniff a job these days without knowing Spanish. Why do I even bother with you?

Capt Alfredo
10-10-2014, 04:24 AM
Why don't you talk to people that actually immigrated over here Legally and you will find the answer to that. My wife and a another person at my work immigrated here Legally and they speak Fluent American English. My wife and I have worked really hard to get her English on the level of almost a Natural Speaker and she is almost there. There are still some thing that trip her up but 98% of the time she is fine. She still knows how to speak 3 other languages fluently and use at least 2 of them on a daily and weekly basis. Even the Chinese and Armenians here in SoCal who immigrate here legally try to learn English.

Then you turn to the Illegal Immigrants and the majority of them can barely speak English if at all, and feel no use of learning it either. This is because everyone wants to be so damn PC that it is "wrong to force them to learn English". When they need to learn English to live, work, and converse throughout this country.

Where do you live in the US? Because I can guarantee it is not in the SW part or you would know the truth.

What does this have to do with gharkal's assertion that a person can't even get a job without speaking Spanish these days? I have dealt with foreign-language speaking people for almost 25 years in my job and sure, the first generation immigrants have often struggled with assimilation. But what you might want to note is that the second and subsequent generations all become fully fluent English speakers and often lose the cradle tongue completely. That's the way it often is. I've spent plenty of time in Texas and other places where Spanish-speaking immigrants tend to live and yes, the first generation tends to want to preserve the original culture and language. Not disagreeing. That said, the more educated the immigrant, the less likely that holds true. I congratulate your wife on her efforts; it's not easy to learn a foreign language as an adult. I postulate that this "official language" crap is a solution in search of a problem. Those who refuse to assimilate will be left behind financially, with few exceptions.

garhkal
10-10-2014, 06:21 AM
Did you read your own article?? The jobs cited include...Spanish teacher, Border Patrol Agent, Interpreter/Translator, and International Business. Shocking and scandalous that those jobs would require Spanish skills (and English, by the way, which ruins your proposition completely). I was referring back to the original statement that in places "to even get a job you need to speak Spanish" - want to rephrase that?


Yes i did, which is why i linked it. What drew me to using that link was the statement of "jobs are increasingly requiring that employees have a background in Spanish."

I am sorry, but when you are 'required to have a backround/speak a language that to me IS making it a requirement, which is what i initially said.

TJMAC77SP
10-10-2014, 12:53 PM
It could also Be that there are cities in the US where Spanish was spoken before Jamestown or and English coloniy was founded, multiple cities in fact

And..........................

TJMAC77SP
10-10-2014, 01:01 PM
What does this have to do with gharkal's assertion that a person can't even get a job without speaking Spanish these days? I have dealt with foreign-language speaking people for almost 25 years in my job and sure, the first generation immigrants have often struggled with assimilation. But what you might want to note is that the second and subsequent generations all become fully fluent English speakers and often lose the cradle tongue completely. That's the way it often is. I've spent plenty of time in Texas and other places where Spanish-speaking immigrants tend to live and yes, the first generation tends to want to preserve the original culture and language. Not disagreeing. That said, the more educated the immigrant, the less likely that holds true. I congratulate your wife on her efforts; it's not easy to learn a foreign language as an adult. I postulate that this "official language" crap is a solution in search of a problem. Those who refuse to assimilate will be left behind financially, with few exceptions.

This is really THE answer to garkhal's assertions. The fact is there are plenty of jobs in the US which require bilingual applicants other than the more obvious ones cited. These positions deal with these immigrants being discussed. Dismissing the assertion is not the way to go.

There is a point in that assimilation doesn't seem to be as wide spread or as urgent now as it was for earlier generations and I believe that is because we don't pressure it. In the name of political correctness and other political reasons we don't want to talk about it. When this gets to the point of xenophobia of course, that is wrong but to ignore it completely is equally wrong.

Measure Man
10-10-2014, 01:28 PM
This is really THE answer to garkhal's assertions. The fact is there are plenty of jobs in the US which require bilingual applicants other than the more obvious ones cited. These positions deal with these immigrants being discussed. Dismissing the assertion is not the way to go.

There is a point in that assimilation doesn't seem to be as wide spread or as urgent now as it was for earlier generations and I believe that is because we don't pressure it. In the name of political correctness and other political reasons we don't want to talk about it. When this gets to the point of xenophobia of course, that is wrong but to ignore it completely is equally wrong.

I'm not convinced there was all this assimilation going on in earlier generations. Even thinking back to my own childhood, my grandparents were German and did not speak English, I also remember visiting friends whose grandparents were Italian and did not speak English. When we would go into the city into Little Italy or Chinatown a good many people there did not speak English. Immigrants not learning English is nothing new, but their children almost certainly do...as do those who immigrate at a younger age.

Rusty Jones
10-10-2014, 02:07 PM
I'm not convinced there was all this assimilation going on in earlier generations. Even thinking back to my own childhood, my grandparents were German and did not speak English, I also remember visiting friends whose grandparents were Italian and did not speak English. When we would go into the city into Little Italy or Chinatown a good many people there did not speak English. Immigrants not learning English is nothing new, but their children almost certainly do...as do those who immigrate at a younger age.

The difference between turn-of-the-century (19th & 20th) immigration and today's immigration, is that with immigrants coming from many different countries, the need to learn a common language to speak to each other was there. So learning English was more imperative at the time.

With immigrants being more Spanish speakers than anything else now - and the high numbers of Americans who speak it (my high school offered Spanish, French, and German - and Spanish was the most popular language) - it's not as imperative.

Anyhow, it really makes no difference to me what happens with language in our country. If I have to get directions in Spanish, it's still gonna get me to the same place as if I got them in English. If I ask for a peanut butter and jelly sandwich in Spanish, it's still gonna taste the same. I don't see what the big deal is.

LogDog
10-10-2014, 05:03 PM
Well, Rainmaker was generalizing as, he recently traveled thru Miami for the first time since 2000 and whole areas of Dade County that used to be fairly nice are now shitholes where most of the residents look like the cast of Apocalypto. Went to a restaurant on Key Biscayne where the menu was in Spanish and none of the wait staff could (or would) speak English. Beach is nice but, you need to be a millionaire to live there and beer cost 9 bucks.

Either way, We can go back and forth with the posting demographics numbers all you want. But, the demographic changes of this Nation and wealth disparity between the top .01% and the rest of us has been pretty clearly documented.

But, Rainmaker will just give you a couple of links for thought (and you can give him 2 opposing links to consider)

Since 2001:

http://www.businessinsider.com/deindustrialization-factory-closing-2010-9?op=1

http://cis.org/all-employment-growth-since-2000-went-to-immigrants


The cultural and demographic destruction of this nation is a quick path to the U.S becoming a 3rd world state. NAFTA was the taking down of our borders. Yes, It started long before President Ebola. But, he has just accelerated the policies that got us here. In the end there comes a quickening.

Now if you'll excuse me ladies. Rainmaker Gotta go to the spider hole on his property and fire up his colloidal silver generator. Gnomesayin?
Your first link is to a webpage of the Business Insider from 2010 but looking it over I couldn't find an article that comes close to proving your assertion. Could you be more specific and give us the title of the article from that webpage you are claiming supports your assertion.

You second link is to The Center for Immigration Studies which the Southern Poverty Law Center say this about its Executive Director Mark Krikorian.


Hobnobbing with extremists: CIS Executive Director Mark Krikorian posed in 2007 with Kyle Bristow, then a student leader at Michigan State University who ranted publicly about "Judeo-Bolshevism."

Krikorian no doubt thought of his posting as a simple joke. But to many, the attempt by the leader of the Washington, D.C.-based Center for Immigration Studies (CIS) to suggest a link between Washington Mutual's commitment to opening its ranks to Latinos and its demise spoke volumes about the nature of CIS and its prolific research. Although the think tank bills itself as an "independent" organization with a "pro-immigrant" if "low-immigration" vision, the reality is that CIS has never found any aspect of immigration that it liked.
http://www.splcenter.org/publications/the-nativist-lobby-three-faces-of-intolerance/cis-the-independent-think-tank
Perhaps your next proof will be from Stormfront.

LogDog
10-10-2014, 05:07 PM
Yes i did, which is why i linked it. What drew me to using that link was the statement of "jobs are increasingly requiring that employees have a background in Spanish."

I am sorry, but when you are 'required to have a backround/speak a language that to me IS making it a requirement, which is what i initially said.
The reason for requiring one to be bilingual is because their customers'/clients' primary language is Spanish and their secondary language is English. That's allowing the marketplace to solve the problem. Sometimes it is better to speak to someone in their native language especially if the discussion is technical or legal in nature.

Rusty Jones
10-10-2014, 05:29 PM
The reason for requiring one to be bilingual is because their customers'/clients' primary language is Spanish and their secondary language is English. That's allowing the marketplace to solve the problem. Sometimes it is better to speak to someone in their native language especially if the discussion is technical or legal in nature.

Wait a second! Do you mean to tell that me this is the free market economy at work? Noooooooooo!!! You would think that a conservative like garhkal would be all for it! Oh, wait...

Capt Alfredo
10-10-2014, 05:42 PM
Yes i did, which is why i linked it. What drew me to using that link was the statement of "jobs are increasingly requiring that employees have a background in Spanish."

I am sorry, but when you are 'required to have a backround/speak a language that to me IS making it a requirement, which is what i initially said.

But that's not what you said. You said "to even get a job you need to speak Spanish" which is patently untrue. Sure, there are some jobs where it is desired or even mandatory, but it's nowhere near the mandate you portrayed it to be.

LogDog
10-10-2014, 06:42 PM
Just doing a Bing search for US jobs requiring spanish, got me the following..
http://www.ehow.com/about_5376628_jobs-require-spanish.html

http://jobview.monster.com/member-services-representative-spanish-speaking-job-philadelphia-pa-us-140403953.aspx

https://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20110911134030AANm6md

That enough for you?
When you do a search for jobs requiring Spanish your going to get the results you requested but it doesn't prove your right. It just mean the criteria you listed in your search was met.

You said in Post #15 "Or you go to some areas in Florida, Texas, Arizona etc, and to even Get a job, you need to speak Spanish fluently."
I did a job search on USAJOBS.gov and got these examples where there isn't a requirement to speak Spanish.
Texas - https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/381914400

Florida - https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/382088100

Arizona - https://www.usajobs.gov/GetJob/ViewDetails/383324200

The job requirement for speaking Sanish is dependent upon the customers/clients the business deals with. If the majority or a large part of their business serves people whose primary language is Spanish then it may be a requirement. However, if it's serving the general public then chances are there is no requirement to speak Spanish.

Your broad statement that one needs to speak Spanish to get a job in Florida, Texas, Arizona, etc. is simply not true. You know it's not true but for some reason, perhaps to reinforce your prejudices, you think repeating it without factual support will make it true.

TJMAC77SP
10-10-2014, 07:10 PM
I'm not convinced there was all this assimilation going on in earlier generations. Even thinking back to my own childhood, my grandparents were German and did not speak English, I also remember visiting friends whose grandparents were Italian and did not speak English. When we would go into the city into Little Italy or Chinatown a good many people there did not speak English. Immigrants not learning English is nothing new, but their children almost certainly do...as do those who immigrate at a younger age.

Perhaps the difference was no one made allowances so you learned or you were limited to communicating within your ethnic group.

garhkal
10-10-2014, 08:52 PM
I wonder. If we did a poll of all the users here, how many would show up as liberal democrats, compared to conservative republicans. Cause it does seem to me like there is rather a large block that is in the former camp.

sandsjames
10-10-2014, 08:57 PM
I wonder. If we did a poll of all the users here, how many would show up as liberal democrats, compared to conservative republicans. Cause it does seem to me like there is rather a large block that is in the former camp.I'm a conservative democrat.

MitchellJD1969
10-10-2014, 09:02 PM
Being a smartass here, but if someone doesnt want to learn english while enjoying the fruits of being a citizen of the US, does that mean that they are intolerent or even bigoted?

If we can say its bigoted and intolerant to require people to learn english, then why cant we say that of those who refuse to learn it as at least a second language?

Measure Man
10-10-2014, 09:09 PM
I wonder. If we did a poll of all the users here, how many would show up as liberal democrats, compared to conservative republicans. Cause it does seem to me like there is rather a large block that is in the former camp.

I am firmly independent.

Max Power
10-10-2014, 09:15 PM
I wonder. If we did a poll of all the users here, how many would show up as liberal democrats, compared to conservative republicans. Cause it does seem to me like there is rather a large block that is in the former camp.

Let me guess, you wouldn't consider yourself part of the latter? I know most liberal democrats usually cite GOP USA as a reputable source of news. Not everyone is pigeonholed into one or the other.

LogDog
10-10-2014, 09:30 PM
I wonder. If we did a poll of all the users here, how many would show up as liberal democrats, compared to conservative republicans. Cause it does seem to me like there is rather a large block that is in the former camp.
I'm moderately a radically liberal conservative.
But what does that have to do with the issue at hand?

BENDER56
10-11-2014, 12:46 AM
This is because it seems that every single day there is another assault on the English Language by Spanish speaking peopl.

Really? What about the daily assault on the English language by English-speaking people. Seems to me like most 'Murcans can't speak or write their own language.

Rainmaker
10-11-2014, 01:15 AM
Your first link is to a webpage of the Business Insider from 2010 but looking it over I couldn't find an article that comes close to proving your assertion. Could you be more specific and give us the title of the article from that webpage you are claiming supports your assertion.

You second link is to The Center for Immigration Studies which the Southern Poverty Law Center say this about its Executive Director Mark Krikorian.


Perhaps your next proof will be from Stormfront.

Hahaha. and You quote the SPLC as an "objective source" to tell me I'm biased. HAHA too much. Shalom and Happy Rosh Hashanah to you too pal!

http://splcwatch.org/

LogDog
10-11-2014, 02:45 AM
Hahaha. and You quote the SPLC as an "objective source" to tell me I'm biased. HAHA too much. Shalom and Happy Rosh Hashanah to you too pal!

http://splcwatch.org/
Seeing as how the FBI uses them along with the NCAAP, the Anti-Defamation League, the National Asian Pacific American Legal Consortium, the National Organization of Women, the Human Rights Campaign, and the National Disability Rights Network I'd say you once again failed. Your attempt to deride them without facts by simply implying the SPLC is not a factual source demonstrates you don't know what you're talking about.

TJMAC77SP
10-11-2014, 04:30 AM
Seeing as how the FBI uses them along with the NCAAP, the Anti-Defamation League, the National Asian Pacific American Legal Consortium, the National Organization of Women, the Human Rights Campaign, and the National Disability Rights Network I'd say you once again failed. Your attempt to deride them without facts by simply implying the SPLC is not a factual source demonstrates you don't know what you're talking about.

Just for clarity...........NAACP.

LogDog
10-11-2014, 04:59 AM
Just for clarity...........NAACP.
My mistake. Thanks for the catch.

Rainmaker
10-11-2014, 05:43 AM
Seeing as how the FBI uses them along with the NCAAP, the Anti-Defamation League, the National Asian Pacific American Legal Consortium, the National Organization of Women, the Human Rights Campaign, and the National Disability Rights Network I'd say you once again failed. Your attempt to deride them without facts by simply implying the SPLC is not a factual source demonstrates you don't know what you're talking about.

Nope the FBI dropped both them and the ADL as sources a while back. So obviously you are a moron. You see the current regime is not in the bag (as much) for the Tribe as the Bush-Clinton Neocons are. The cold war is over and People have wised up to that game, so now the tribe is getting desperate.

Of course the SPLC would smear any other group that is against open borders, because the SPLC demands open borders for all nations. Except for one. Need Rainmaker to spell which one out for you? IS-RA- EL...

Listen, It's pretty clear that you have dual loyalties between your motherland the State of Israel and the United States and thats why your panties are all up in a bunch and you're crying about storm-front or whatever. But, try not to make so obvious.

garhkal
10-11-2014, 06:58 AM
Being a smartass here, but if someone doesnt want to learn english while enjoying the fruits of being a citizen of the US, does that mean that they are intolerent or even bigoted?

If we can say its bigoted and intolerant to require people to learn english, then why cant we say that of those who refuse to learn it as at least a second language?

Good question. But i doubt it qualifies for either label


Let me guess, you wouldn't consider yourself part of the latter? I know most liberal democrats usually cite GOP USA as a reputable source of news. Not everyone is pigeonholed into one or the other.

If i was to go through most of the key things in society, i would most likely come out conservative republican though there are some things i would probably come out as democrat for. I actually wish there was some sort of site (like they have for personality tests etc) to determine that.

UncaRastus
10-11-2014, 02:06 PM
Garhkal,

Go to:

http://www.gotoquiz.com/republican_or_democrat_1

LogDog
10-11-2014, 05:27 PM
Nope the FBI dropped both them and the ADL as sources a while back. So obviously you are a moron. You see the current regime is not in the bag (as much) for the Tribe as the Bush-Clinton Neocons are. The cold war is over and People have wised up to that game, so now the tribe is getting desperate.
And your source for your your claim is?

From the FBI website:

Public Outreach: The FBI has forged partnerships nationally and locally with many civil rights organizations to establish rapport, share information, address concerns, and cooperate in solving problems. These groups include such organizations as the NAACP, the Southern Poverty Law Center, the Anti-Defamation League, the National Asian Pacific American Legal Consortium, the National Organization for Women, the Human Rights Campaign, and the National Disability Rights Network.
http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/investigate/civilrights/hate_crimes/overview



Of course the SPLC would smear any other group that is against open borders, because the SPLC demands open borders for all nations. Except for one. Need Rainmaker to spell which one out for you? IS-RA- EL...
Please tell us how you came to this conclusion and provide links to credible sources.


Listen, It's pretty clear that you have dual loyalties between your motherland the State of Israel and the United States and thats why your panties are all up in a bunch and you're crying about storm-front or whatever. But, try not to make so obvious.
Again, please tell us how you came to this conclusion and provide links to credible sources. You're under the belief that just making inane comments makes it so; it doesn't.

garhkal
10-11-2014, 08:51 PM
Garhkal,

Go to:

http://www.gotoquiz.com/republican_or_democrat_1

By that quiz i am 84% republican.

Rainmaker
10-12-2014, 04:27 AM
And your source for your your claim is?

From the FBI website:




Please tell us how you came to this conclusion and provide links to credible sources.


Again, please tell us how you came to this conclusion and provide links to credible sources. You're under the belief that just making inane comments makes it so; it doesn't.

Not hard to find. First Google hit.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/shocker-fbi-dumps-southern-poverty-law-center-as-hate-crime-watchdog-partner/article/2546305

Rainmaker
10-12-2014, 04:46 AM
Que up... Log Dog telling us The Washington Times is not a credible source in 3...2...1..

because only these guys are allowed to be considered credible.... News Corp. President Peter Chernin (Jewish), Paramount Pictures Chairman Brad Grey (Jewish), Walt Disney Co. Chief Executive Robert Iger (Jewish), Sony Pictures Chairman Michael Lynton (Jewish), Warner Bros. Chairman Barry Meyer (Jewish), CBS Corp. Chief Executive Leslie Moonves (great uncle was the first prime minister of Israel), MGM Chairman Harry Sloan (Jewish) and NBC Universal Chief Executive Jeff Zucker (Jewish).


http://www.conservapedia.com/Southern_Poverty_Law_Center#cite_note-2

LogDog
10-12-2014, 06:13 AM
Not hard to find. First Google hit.

http://washingtonexaminer.com/shocker-fbi-dumps-southern-poverty-law-center-as-hate-crime-watchdog-partner/article/2546305
From Media Matter (which I know you'll claim isn't credible).


Conservative news outlets are hyping a minor website change to suggest that the FBI is distancing itself from the Southern Poverty Law Center (SPLC) - a group that monitors hate speech and violence - in response to criticism from anti-gay organizations. But the FBI has issued a statement debunking that narrative and continues to publicly touts its partnership with SPLC on its website.

But the claim that the FBI is ending its relationship, or even its website's relationship, with SPLC in response to right-wing outrage is false. As Good As You's Jeremy Hooper noted, the FBI continues to list SPLC as a partner in the fight against hate crimes on its website.

http://mediamatters.org/blog/2014/03/27/no-the-fbi-hasnt-ditched-the-southern-poverty-l/198645
So if the FBI dumped the SPLC back in March then why do they still list them on their website. I noticed you didn't mention the FBI link I included which tells me you didn't even look at it before trying to palm off a phony story.

LogDog
10-12-2014, 06:27 AM
Que up... Log Dog telling us The Washington Times is not a credible source in 3...2...1..

because only these guys are allowed to be considered credible.... News Corp. President Peter Chernin (Jewish), Paramount Pictures Chairman Brad Grey (Jewish), Walt Disney Co. Chief Executive Robert Iger (Jewish), Sony Pictures Chairman Michael Lynton (Jewish), Warner Bros. Chairman Barry Meyer (Jewish), CBS Corp. Chief Executive Leslie Moonves (great uncle was the first prime minister of Israel), MGM Chairman Harry Sloan (Jewish) and NBC Universal Chief Executive Jeff Zucker (Jewish).


http://www.conservapedia.com/Southern_Poverty_Law_Center#cite_note-2
When in this discussion did you reference the Washington Times. Your last reference was the Washington Examiner.

I clearly have no idea why you are listing Jewish executives. Would you like to explain?

As for conservapedia.com, here's what they say about the information on their website.

Conservapedia is a voluntary, collaborative effort to provide knowledge and information to the public. Like Wikipedia, the structure of this project permits anyone with electronic access to alter the content here. Nothing here has necessarily been reviewed or checked by anyone with expertise to ensure that it is accurate or reliable. USERS RELY ON INFORMATION HERE ENTIRELY AT THEIR OWN RISK. Conservapedia and its editors, contributors, sponsors, affiliates or anyone associated in any way with this project cannot guarantee the validity of any information found here, and shall not be responsible or liable in any way for any inaccurate or libelous information found here. Content of any given article may have been vandalized or modified by someone who lacks knowledge.
http://www.conservapedia.com/Conservapedia:General_disclaimer
Why would you cite a source that says they aren't sure the information is accurate or reliable.?

TJMAC77SP
10-12-2014, 03:33 PM
From Media Matter (which I know you'll claim isn't credible).


So if the FBI dumped the SPLC back in March then why do they still list them on their website. I noticed you didn't mention the FBI link I included which tells me you didn't even look at it before trying to palm off a phony story.

I actually admire the SPLC (although they have gone a bit more towards editorializing of late) but Media Matters (and in particular its blog) is not exactly unbiased.

The FBI is indeed still partnered with the SPLC (and 32 other organizations) in their outreach program. I could find no FBI press release during the past year which specifically 'debunks' the claim as stated on Media Matters. It seems obvious the relationship is still active but it would seem equally true that Media Matters fudged the facts a little.

Rainmaker
10-12-2014, 08:36 PM
When in this discussion did you reference the Washington Times. Your last reference was the Washington Examiner.

I clearly have no idea why you are listing Jewish executives. Would you like to explain?

As for conservapedia.com, here's what they say about the information on their website.

Why would you cite a source that says they aren't sure the information is accurate or reliable.?

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/28/editorial-the-fbi-dumps-a-hate-group/
Washington Times. Rainmaker just gave you a link. There's about 20 more pages. Just google FBI drops SPLC. Rainmaker ain't your search engine. look it up yourself.

Conservapedia has to put that statement on their website in order to prevent themselves from being labeled (and sued) as a "Hate Group" by the B'nai Brith (Jewish Supremacists) at the ADL.

The mainstream media as well as all 8 film companies are owned lock stock and barrel by people that "happen to be Jewish". It's a fact. so, if you're looking for unbiased reporting, you won't find it in the mainstream media. They'd label any dissenting non totalitarian, socialist viewpoint as "hate" speech. "Anti-Racist" is code for Anti-White

LogDog
10-12-2014, 08:46 PM
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/28/editorial-the-fbi-dumps-a-hate-group/
Washington Times. Rainmaker just gave you a link. There's about 20 more pages. Rainmaker ain't your search engine. look it up yourself.
Your link to the story about the FBI dumping the SPLC was linked to the Washington Examiner which is why I asked the question. There was no continuity in in your reference.


Conservapedia has to put that statement on their website in order to prevent themselves from being labeled (and sued) as a "Hate Group" by the B'nai Brith Jewish Supremacists at the ADL.
Conservapedia allows anyone to make changes and by their admission the website doesn't verify the accuracy of the information posted. Therefor, since anyone can make accurate or inaccurate changes they and Wikipedia have to be viewed as not being very credible as sources.


The mainstream media as well as all 8 film companies are owned lock stock and barrel by people that "happen to be Jewish". It's a fact. so, if you're looking for unbiased reporting. you won't find it in the mainstream media. Of course they'd label any opposing non socialist viewpoint as hate speech.
What is it with you and your obsession with who is Jewish and Israel? You bring these things in that have no connection with the topic at hand.

USN - Retired
10-13-2014, 12:19 AM
Is LogDog Joe Bonham?

Gonzo432
10-13-2014, 01:06 AM
Is LogDog Joe Bonham?

Just don't say his name 3 times.

Rainmaker
10-13-2014, 02:45 AM
Your link to the story about the FBI dumping the SPLC was linked to the Washington Examiner which is why I asked the question. There was no continuity in in your reference.


Conservapedia allows anyone to make changes and by their admission the website doesn't verify the accuracy of the information posted. Therefor, since anyone can make accurate or inaccurate changes they and Wikipedia have to be viewed as not being very credible as sources.


What is it with you and your obsession with who is Jewish and Israel? You bring these things in that have no connection with the topic at hand.

You brought it up with the comparison of the CIS with Stormfront (a Nazi website). Rainmaker is against all Socialism (including National Socialism)

The SPLC (along with the Jewish Supremacists at the ADL) will label any group or website that is not for Unconditional Amnesty of Illegal Aliens currently in the US as hate group. So, When you have one group that controls the MSM ( which in this case is Talmudic Judaism) then, you are not going to get any objectivity in the MSM. So, if your criteria for a credible source is approval by the SPLC. well, that rules out anyone that disagrees with them.

Now,Rainmaker have nothing against the Jewish people personally. There is much to admire in that culture. However, internationalists subduing American Sovereignty is not good for OUR country.

Rainmaker (along with every other able male in his family for the last 6 Generations) Swore an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States. Rainmaker has sworn no allegiance to the State of Israel. How bout you? Gnomesayin?

LogDog
10-13-2014, 03:07 AM
You brought it up with the comparison of the CIS with Stormfront (a Nazi website). Rainmaker is against all Socialism (including National Socialism)
We were talking about the article in your Washington Examiner story and then you all of a sudden brought in the Washington Times without any connection to what we were talking about. You remind me of a good friend of mine who would be talking and then change the subject in the middle of his sentence. I'd call him out on it and he finally realized his train of thought wasn't always on the right track. You have a tendency to jump the track and it's hard to keep up.


The SPLC (along with the Jewish Supremacists at the ADL) will label any group or website that is not for Unconditional Amnesty of Illegal Aliens currently in the US as hate group. So, When you have one group that controls the MSM ( which in this case is Talmudic Judaism) then, you are not going to get any objectivity in the MSM. So, if your criteria for a credible source is approval by the SPLC. well, that rules out anyone that disagrees with them.
I'm now seeing that you are really anti-Jewish. Yes, Stormfront has a chair reserved your you.


Now,Rainmaker have nothing against the Jewish people personally. There is much to admire in that culture. However, internationalists subduing American Sovereignty is not good for OUR country.
Let me guess, some of your best friends are Jewish. http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/laughing-007.gif


Rainmaker (along with every other able male in his family for the last 6 Generations) Swore an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States. Rainmaker has sworn no allegiance to the State of Israel. How bout you? Gnomesayin?
Like the Church Lady would say, "Well, aren't you special."

Rainmaker
10-13-2014, 04:41 AM
We were talking about the article in your Washington Examiner story and then you all of a sudden brought in the Washington Times without any connection to what we were talking about. You remind me of a good friend of mine who would be talking and then change the subject in the middle of his sentence. I'd call him out on it and he finally realized his train of thought wasn't always on the right track. You have a tendency to jump the track and it's hard to keep up.


I'm now seeing that you are really anti-Jewish. Yes, Stormfront has a chair reserved your you.


Let me guess, some of your best friends are Jewish. http://smileys.on-my-web.com/repository/Laughing/laughing-007.gif


Like the Church Lady would say, "Well, aren't you special."
Get thee behind me, Satan - Υπαγε οπισω μου σατανα.

sandsjames
10-13-2014, 12:02 PM
I wonder if a discussion could ever be about the topic and not about the motives or reasoning behind the person bringing up the topic. When did this change happen? Was it with the rise of social media or was it around before that?

Stalwart
10-13-2014, 01:13 PM
I wonder if a discussion could ever be about the topic and not about the motives or reasoning behind the person bringing up the topic. When did this change happen? Was it with the rise of social media or was it around before that?

There are always the bigger picture arguments that can be made about any topic, kind of like a tactical issue, operational issue then the high level strategic/policy points; on many levels I like to look at strategic/policy issues ... since that is long term. But yeah, I would also sometimes like to be able to have or see a discussion that does not quickly devolve into religion or right vs. left.

A lesson from debate class a long time ago, redirect the conversation from something you are not versed in (prepared to discuss) to a familiar topic -- where you also already have several canned, ready made talking points. Every 'good' politician I have watched for a period of time is really ... REALLY good at this. Turn a bridge collapse in MN to an issue of one party undercutting the budget domestic infrastructure, turn every issue into an example of race issues, or gender equality or inequality, the war on women, the war on men etc. The redirected point may be true and in need of a hard look; it is not addressing the immediate issue.

TJMAC77SP
10-13-2014, 01:16 PM
There are always the bigger picture arguments that can be made about any topic, kind of like a tactical issue, operational issue then the high level strategic/policy points; on many levels I like to look at strategic/policy issues ... since that is long term. But yeah, I would also sometimes like to be able to have or see a discussion that does not quickly devolve into religion or right vs. left.

A lesson from debate class a long time ago, redirect the conversation from something you are not versed in (prepared to discuss) to a familiar topic -- where you also already have several canned, ready made talking points. Every 'good' politician I have watched for a period of time is really ... REALLY good at this. Turn a bridge collapse in MN to an issue of one party undercutting the budget domestic infrastructure, turn every issue into an example of race issues, or gender equality or inequality, the war on women, the war on men etc. The redirected point may be true and in need of a hard look; it is not addressing the immediate issue.

Maybe we can get this defined as a variation of Godwin's Law?

MACHINE666
11-16-2014, 11:59 AM
Do you feel its time we as a country adopted a national language, like practically every other country in the world has done?
If so, which language do you think it should be?

English.

My wife speaks Spanish, German and English fluently, and English was her third language. If my Latina wife can learn to do so fluently, so can all these other wetbacks as well!

:D :D :D :D