PDA

View Full Version : Female teacher has sex with 14 yr old, gets 6 months in jail?



garhkal
09-03-2014, 06:27 PM
WTF Over.

Does anyone else see this as an outrageously light sentence? Who here thinks if a guy did the same crime, and got the same term in jail, there would be massive outroar?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2738560/Female-teacher-sex-students-sentenced-six-months-jail.html

http://www.everyjoe.com/2014/02/07/crime/meredith-powell-photos-nude-teacher-arrested-tacoma-washington/

efmbman
09-03-2014, 06:43 PM
Have you heard of Mark Hulett? Judge Edward Cashman?

Absinthe Anecdote
09-03-2014, 08:36 PM
WTF Over.

Does anyone else see this as an outrageously light sentence? Who here thinks if a guy did the same crime, and got the same term in jail, there would be massive outroar?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2738560/Female-teacher-sex-students-sentenced-six-months-jail.html

http://www.everyjoe.com/2014/02/07/crime/meredith-powell-photos-nude-teacher-arrested-tacoma-washington/

There would most likely be an uproar, or perhaps outrage, but I doubt there would be any outroar.

Seriously, people were upset with the judges sentencing, the article talked about family members storming out of the courtroom, the prosecutors office and school officials were upset. The newspaper made the light sentence the highlight of their story.

What more do you want, a riot?

Judges go light on offenders all the time, it isn't a rarity, male and female offenders get light sentences sometimes, when they probably shouldn't.

My question to you is, why do you routinely trot out stories showing a male/female bias?

Did some female stomp all over you or what? I can think of a half dozen threads from you where you try to illustrate the same theme. What's the deal? Are you a woman hater?

I will give you credit for this thread being more compelling than the ladies night thread.

garhkal
09-03-2014, 09:30 PM
Being i had 20 years of women's rights pushed down my throat via the EO people in the mil, i am trying to see how much EO there is in society. Whether its in the laws, or how society views stuff. That is why i like posting stuff like this, showing imo that there IS double standards, both legally and socially, but that it is not just accepted but encouraged.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-03-2014, 10:14 PM
Being i had 20 years of women's rights pushed down my throat via the EO people in the mil, i am trying to see how much EO there is in society. Whether its in the laws, or how society views stuff. That is why i like posting stuff like this, showing imo that there IS double standards, both legally and socially, but that it is not just accepted but encouraged.

Since women's rights were "pushed down your throat" does that mean you are against women's rights?

Dude, you are coming across as a misogynist or at least a sour grape.

Life isn't fair, and there are double standards. That's not a big secret that needs to be revealed.

The amount that you fixate on this particular narrative seems unhealthy to me.

Lighten up, and be happy! :)

USN - Retired
09-03-2014, 10:55 PM
I see that AA is stalking garkhal again.


The amount that you fixate on this particular narrative seems unhealthy to me.

@AA:

Feminists also fixate extensively on the narrative of gender inequality. Does that mean that feminists also have an unhealthy fixation on gender inequality?

The amount that you bully garkhal seems unhealthy to me. Why do you bully people so much? If garkhal's posts are of no interest to you, then you should just go away. Seriously, you need to seek help for your mental health problems.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-03-2014, 11:34 PM
I see that AA is stalking garkhal again.



@AA:

Feminists also fixate extensively on the narrative of gender inequality. Does that mean that feminists also have an unhealthy fixation on gender inequality?

The amount that you bully garkhal seems unhealthy to me. Why do you bully people so much? If garkhal's posts are of no interest to you, then you should just go away. Seriously, you need to seek help for your mental health problems.

That's actually pretty good, touché!

garhkal
09-04-2014, 05:19 AM
He does have a point though. I do have a bit too much of a fixation on when i see stuff that is willfully double standardized, cause of how long "PCism / Equal opportunity" was pushed on me. To where i take it literally.

sandsjames
09-04-2014, 11:19 AM
The amount that you bully garkhal seems unhealthy to me. Why do you bully people so much? He doesn't bully. For that to happen, he'd actually need to be able to intimidate someone.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-04-2014, 01:48 PM
He doesn't bully. For that to happen, he'd actually need to be able to intimidate someone.

Hey!

I'll show you who's king of the forest!

Rainmaker
09-04-2014, 05:11 PM
WTF Over.

Does anyone else see this as an outrageously light sentence? Who here thinks if a guy did the same crime, and got the same term in jail, there would be massive outroar?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2738560/Female-teacher-sex-students-sentenced-six-months-jail.html

http://www.everyjoe.com/2014/02/07/crime/meredith-powell-photos-nude-teacher-arrested-tacoma-washington/

While Rainmaker get your point. It's an apples and oranges comparison. Meredith Powell is what we used to affectionately call back in Rainmaker's day a "Practice girl". The fact that she's even going to jail at all is an outrage. This young woman did these young men a service. it's Prolly the best thing that ever happened to em.

Measure Man
09-04-2014, 05:14 PM
Who here thinks if a guy did the same crime, and got the same term in jail, there would be massive outroar?

Who here thinks high school boys having sex with a fairly cute 25 yr old are traumatized victims?

Rainmaker
09-04-2014, 05:23 PM
Who here thinks high school boys having sex with a fairly cute 25 yr old are traumatized victims?

Don't get Rainmaker wrong. Meredith should definitely be fired. But, she deserves our pity. not Jail time. Whatever happened to the girls playin a little hard to get? The problem is the the law of supply and demand is all outta wack in this country. we have an over supply of pussy. and just like physical labor it's been devalued to the point where it ain't worth shit anymore. No wonder so many of these kids still live in their parent's basement. these skanks don't make em have to bring anything to the table to get the tail. easy pussy has destroyed the fabric of America

MitchellJD1969
09-04-2014, 06:02 PM
Who here thinks high school boys having sex with a fairly cute 25 yr old are traumatized victims?

Who here thinks that a 25 year old woman chooses to have sex with high school boys, rather than men in her age group seems pretty pathetic.

Measure Man
09-04-2014, 06:06 PM
Who here thinks that a 25 year old woman chooses to have sex with high school boys, rather than men in her age group seems pretty pathetic.

Pathetic, sure. I'll go along with that. Wrong? absolutely. Fired? Of course.

Hard prison time for destroying the innocence of children? I don't think so.

Is it a double standard...perhaps...men and women are different.

USN - Retired
09-04-2014, 07:25 PM
Who here thinks high school boys having sex with a fairly cute 25 yr old are traumatized victims?

Will he still not be traumatized when his parents and grandparents discover what he did?


Hard prison time for destroying the innocence of children? I don't think so.

Even if she gives her student an STD?

What if the female teacher becomes pregnant and her high school student is the father of her child? Should that high school student pay child support for that child? He might have to. If you don't believe me, then read this article: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/02/statutory-rape-victim-child-support/14953965/

What if a handsome 25 year old male teacher has sex with his 17 year old female student who is very promiscuous and on birth control? Should that man go to jail for a long time? I suspect that he probably would.

sandsjames
09-04-2014, 07:51 PM
Who here thinks high school boys having sex with a fairly cute 25 yr old are traumatized victims?

Not I...no harm done...

We all bitch about double standard but they are there for a reason. And for all of you who are raising, or have raised, boys AND girls and can't admit that you raise them differently then you are full of shit.

garhkal
09-04-2014, 09:17 PM
While Rainmaker get your point. It's an apples and oranges comparison. Meredith Powell is what we used to affectionately call back in Rainmaker's day a "Practice girl". The fact that she's even going to jail at all is an outrage. This young woman did these young men a service. it's Prolly the best thing that ever happened to em.

So cause a woman has sex with underage guys, its ok? Just cause the 'guys need to practice'?



What if a handsome 25 year old male teacher has sex with his 17 year old female student who is very promiscuous and on birth control? Should that man go to jail for a long time? I suspect that he probably would.

Exactly. That is the double standard i am on about. Gal does the same a guy does, and people think the gal should be praised for it while the guy gets lambasted for being a perve.

ex prosup
09-04-2014, 09:33 PM
WTF Over.

Does anyone else see this as an outrageously light sentence? Who here thinks if a guy did the same crime, and got the same term in jail, there would be massive outroar?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2738560/Female-teacher-sex-students-sentenced-six-months-jail.html

http://www.everyjoe.com/2014/02/07/crime/meredith-powell-photos-nude-teacher-arrested-tacoma-washington/

Women teachers don't always get off easy, see this Oklahoma case from a few years ago.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/oklahoma-teacher-michelle-mccutchan-convicted-raping-16-year-old-male-students-sentenced-15-years-prison-article-1.1153719

Rainmaker
09-04-2014, 09:51 PM
So cause a woman has sex with underage guys, its ok? Just cause the 'guys need to practice'?



Exactly. That is the double standard i am on about. Gal does the same a guy does, and people think the gal should be praised for it while the guy gets lambasted for being a perve.

Not ok. she should be fired, as Meredith obviously has problems and got no bidness teaching Chilluns.
However, speaking as a Father of 2 sons (grown), a High School daughter and 4 year old boy-girl twins. It's 2 completely different situations. Like the man says. Men are from Mars and Wimmins is from Venus. You have to apply common sense. Don't let the family hating retards in the Diversity cult convince you otherwise. their day is coming garhkal

Rainmaker
09-04-2014, 09:59 PM
Women teachers don't always get off easy, see this Oklahoma case from a few years ago.
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/oklahoma-teacher-michelle-mccutchan-convicted-raping-16-year-old-male-students-sentenced-15-years-prison-article-1.1153719

" Michelle McCutchan was busted last month in Checotah, Okla., on two counts of second-degree rape and one count of sodomy with a 16-year-old, authorities said." AND "What I've heard across the board is they didn't see it coming"

Bullshit they didn't. You can't rape the willing. further evidence that this country has lost its collective mind.

Measure Man
09-05-2014, 12:06 AM
Will he still not be traumatized when his parents and grandparents discover what he did?

I don't think so...a little embarassed maybe...maybe a lot embarrassed, but traumatized? I don't think so.


Even if she gives her student an STD?

Is it any more traumatic than if he got it from another student?


What if the female teacher becomes pregnant and her high school student is the father of her child? Should that high school student pay child support for that child? He might have to. If you don't believe me, then read this article: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2014/09/02/statutory-rape-victim-child-support/14953965/

That's interesting...I guess, why wouldn't he? I'm more of the opinion that, typically, these teenage boys are not victims...so, why should they be any less responsible than if they'd had sex with someone their own age?


What if a handsome 25 year old male teacher has sex with his 17 year old female student who is very promiscuous and on birth control? Should that man go to jail for a long time? I suspect that he probably would.

I'm sure he would. I'm not here arguing there is no double standard. Indeed there is...

Does that mean there are never true male victims? Of course not.
does it mean that all female "victims are traumatized innocent little lambs? Of course not again.

I do think that an otherwise sexually active 16 year old that has a "consensual" relationship with a teacher or other adult should not be looked at the same way as a frightened 11 year old...they are not the same kind of "victim", and the 16 year old may not be traumatized at all.

...I do think it's far more likely that the girls are more traumatized than the boys. That is all I'm saying...and yes, I do think the impact on the victim should be considered in the sentence given.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-05-2014, 12:22 AM
While Rainmaker get your point. It's an apples and oranges comparison. Meredith Powell is what we used to affectionately call back in Rainmaker's day a "Practice girl". The fact that she's even going to jail at all is an outrage. This young woman did these young men a service. it's Prolly the best thing that ever happened to em.

With all your "street wise" chatter and the code of the hood that you live by; why aren't you mad at those two boys for snitching?

Aren't snitches supposed to get stitches?

USN - Retired
09-05-2014, 02:35 AM
I don't think so...a little embarassed maybe...maybe a lot embarrassed, but traumatized? I don't think so.

That depends on the parents and the grandparents. Many parents and grandparents will make sure the boy is traumatized. I would say that "a lot embarrassed" is pretty much the same thing as "traumatized", especially for a young teenager.


Is it any more traumatic than if he got it from another student?

You dodged the question. I wasn't talking about trauma there. I was asking whether the teacher should face hard prison time if she gave one of her students an STD?


That's interesting...I guess, why wouldn't he? I'm more of the opinion that, typically, these teenage boys are not victims...so, why should they be any less responsible than if they'd had sex with someone their own age?

Let's look at a hypothetical scenario: 16 year old girl gets pregnant and the father is 16 years old. The girl has options: she can put the baby up for adoption. If she chooses to put the baby up for adoption, then she is off the hook financially, and she will never have to pay any child support. The boy has no such option to put the newborn up for adoption. If the girl decides to keep the baby, then the boy may very well have to pay for child support for 18 or more years. If an 18 year old woman gets pregnant, then she also has the option of abortion. Additionally ,she has the option of the safe haven laws which allow her to leave her newborn infant with medical personnel at a hospital emergency room, and she'll never have to pay a dime in child support. There are many laws that allow women and girls to walk away from the financial and personal responsibility of parenthood. Men and boys do not have any similar options.

so, here's your question again...


...so, why should they be any less responsible than if they'd had sex with someone their own age?

And I'll answer your question with some questions...

Since girls and woman have many legal options to walk away from the financial and personal responsibility of parenthood, then why shouldn't boys and men have similar legal options to walk away from the financial and personal responsibility of parenthood?

An adult woman has many legal options to walk away from the financial and personal responsibility of parenthood, yet a boy does not. Does that sound fair and proper to you?


I'm not here arguing there is no double standard. Indeed there is...


Why do we have a double standard?


...and yes, I do think the impact on the victim should be considered in the sentence given.

I agree, but I just don't see that happening.

garhkal
09-05-2014, 02:42 AM
That's a good point. We have a majorly imbalanced double standard when it comes to parental rights. Once a woman is pregnant, she has both rights and responsibilities. BUT the guy who got her pregnant. NO rights, just responsibilities.
And what i find worse, is if that happens to be a couple where one is military, if hubby wants a vacetomy, he needs wifies permission.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-05-2014, 02:58 AM
That's a good point. We have a majorly imbalanced double standard when it comes to parental rights. Once a woman is pregnant, she has both rights and responsibilities. BUT the guy who got her pregnant. NO rights, just responsibilities.
And what i find worse, is if that happens to be a couple where one is military, if hubby wants a vacetomy, he needs wifies permission.

I've got the answer to your problems, two words, Salafi Islam!

All you have to do is convert and move to Saudi Arabia and you'll be living the high life of total domination over women. You'll hold sway over females just like the men did in the good old days of the Bronze Age!

If you are feeling a little adventurous, why not join ISIS?

With ISIS you might even get the chance to stone a few women.

USN - Retired
09-05-2014, 03:06 AM
I've got the answer to your problems, two words, Salafi Islam!

All you have to do is convert and move to Saudi Arabia and you'll be living the high life of total domination over women. You'll hold sway over females just like the men did in the good old days of the Bronze Age!

If you are feeling a little adventurous, why not join ISIS?

With ISIS you might even get the chance to stone a few women.

You're stalking garhkal again?

Measure Man
09-05-2014, 03:33 AM
That depends on the parents and the grandparents. Many parents and grandparents will make sure the boy is traumatized. I would say that "a lot embarrassed" is pretty much the same thing as "traumatized", especially for a young teenager.

So, your parents and grandparents would make sure you have nightmares for years, possibly PTSD, have difficulty with future relationships?


You dodged the question. I wasn't talking about trauma there. I was asking whether the teacher should face hard prison time if she gave one of her students an STD?

I didn't dodge the question...it is a completely different topic and has nothing to do with their ages?

If she knowingly had HIV and knowingly had unprotected high-risk sex with anybody...teenager or not, then yes.

Was she nonsymptomatic and gave someone chlamydia? Then, no.


Let's look at a hypothetical scenario: 16 year old girl gets pregnant and the father is 16 years old. The girl has options: she can put the baby up for adoption. If she chooses to put the baby up for adoption, then she is off the hook financially, and she will never have to pay any child support. The boy has no such option to put the newborn up for adoption. If the girl decides to keep the baby, then the boy may very well have to pay for child support for 18 or more years. If an 18 year old woman gets pregnant, then she also has the option of abortion. Additionally ,she has the option of the safe haven laws which allow her to leave her newborn infant with medical personnel at a hospital emergency room, and she'll never have to pay a dime in child support. There are many laws that allow women and girls to walk away from the financial and personal responsibility of parenthood. Men and boys do not have any similar options.

Yes...newsflash: males and females are different. Can a woman put the child up for adoption of the father wants it?

so, here's your question again...




And I'll answer your question with some questions...

Since girls and woman have many legal options to walk away from the financial and personal responsibility of parenthood, then why shouldn't boys and men have similar legal options to walk away from the financial and personal responsibility of parenthood?

...again, I'm not denying there are different standards for men and women. There are different standards because the situation is different.


An adult woman has many legal options to walk away from the financial and personal responsibility of parenthood, yet a boy does not. Does that sound fair and proper to you?

Is it fair that only the woman can choose to have or not have an abortion? Yes...it is only her body that can carry the baby to term or not.

Once carried to term though, I think the father should have the same options to keep the child rather than havve it adopted, with the mother having the same responsibility to financially support it.


Why do we have a double standard?

Men can not become pregnant.


I agree, but I just don't see that happening.

Happens all the time...if you drive drunk and get in a noninjury accident...probation, maybe a weekend in jail...if that person dies, you're looking at 10 years.

Stalwart
09-05-2014, 11:10 AM
Is it fair that only the woman can choose to have or not have an abortion? Yes...it is only her body that can carry the baby to term or not.

Once carried to term though, I think the father should have the same options to keep the child rather than have it adopted, with the mother having the same responsibility to financially support it.

I know that in MD, VA, FL, NC, SC, GA, AZ, TX, and LA the biological father (if known & declared on the birth certificate) does have to give consent (sign away parental rights) for a child to be adopted. I only know about those states since those are the ones we worked with when we were pursuing domestic adoption.

In those states NO agency can intake a child for permanent placement where BOTH parents have not surrendered their rights or had them revoked by the state. For children who have been removed from the home but the parents right have not been terminated, those parents actually still have input on placement in foster homes for their children (have to consent if outside a certain distance from the biological parents etc.)

The agency we used in Maryland for our homestudy even goes through efforts to locate biological fathers when the birth certificate states "unknown" to prevent legal challenges to the adoption later.

sandsjames
09-05-2014, 11:31 AM
Seems pretty simple why there is a double standard.

Men and women have completely different emotional responses to sex. Especially for young girls. Girls do it for acceptance...guys do it to get laid. It's the same reason guys are rarely victims in sexual assault cases.

Stalwart
09-05-2014, 11:45 AM
Bullshit they didn't. You can't rape the willing. further evidence that this country has lost its collective mind.

The 14 year old or 16 year old (male or female) may be more than willing to engage in sex with an adult. The larger issue is that the law has determined that at that age, they are not mature enough to make that decision; a point that I for the most part would agree with: they are after the instant satisfaction but not financially or emotionally able to deal with the potential long term consequences of 10 minutes of pleasure.

Yes, males are less likely to be emotionally 'scarred' like a young female may be; but the whole thing may open a bigger question about what we (by looking the other way when it is an underage male) are teaching / implying is the way a woman should be regarded or treated by a male.

Rainmaker
09-05-2014, 01:52 PM
With all your "street wise" chatter and the code of the hood that you live by; why aren't you mad at those two boys for snitching?
Aren't snitches supposed to get stitches?

They were prolly just braggin and someone overheard. Moral of the story: Loose Lips sink ships Bitchez...

Absinthe Anecdote
09-05-2014, 01:57 PM
You're stalking garhkal again?

Seriously, all joking aside for a moment.

Some of the attitudes you two guys are displaying toward women don't seem very enlightened to me.

Does the female parent have control over the fate of an unborn child? Absolutely, but it is a mere function of biology, rather than the result of liberalism rum amok.

Does the female parent hold more sway in legal matters concerning the upbringing and custodial status of the child? Yes, but I would point to a court system and laws that acknowledge nature.

When a legal conflict arises about the fate of a child in our country, the scales are balanced in favor of mother and child.

To me, this doesn't seem like an injustice, and I have a hard time seeing why you guys are characterizing it as one.

What rights would you bestow upon males when it comes to abortion and custody?

In terms of sex crimes against minors, and sentencing guidelines. Sometimes the judges make wrong calls and hand out sentences that are too lenient or too harsh. Regardless of the victims gender, judges are going to make the wrong call in someone's eyes.

I don't see a way to correct that.

When a person takes a news story about the outcome of a particular case and starts claiming a societal bias against men, I can't help, but to roll my eyes, if on an Internet forum, I'm prone to take a cheap shot at them.

TJMAC77SP
09-05-2014, 02:16 PM
Seriously, all joking aside for a moment.

Some of the attitudes you two guys are displaying toward women don't seem very enlightened to me.

Does the female parent have control over the fate of an unborn child? Absolutely, but it is a mere function of biology, rather than the result of liberalism rum amok.

Does the female parent hold more sway in legal matters concerning the upbringing and custodial status of the child? Yes, but I would point to a court system and laws that acknowledge nature.

When a legal conflict arises about the fate of a child in our country, the scales are balanced in favor of mother and child.

To me, this doesn't seem like an injustice, and I have a hard time seeing why you guys are characterizing it as one.

What rights would you bestow upon males when it comes to abortion and custody?

In terms of sex crimes against minors, and sentencing guidelines. Sometimes the judges make wrong calls and hand out sentences that are too lenient or too harsh. Regardless of the victims gender, judges are going to make the wrong call in someone's eyes.

I don't see a way to correct that.

When a person takes a news story about the outcome of a particular case and starts claiming a societal bias against men, I can't help, but to roll my eyes, if on an Internet forum, I'm prone to take a cheap shot at them.

Alternatively.........you could engage in a discussion like you just did.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-05-2014, 02:27 PM
They were prolly just braggin and someone overheard. Moral of the story: Loose Lips sink ships Bitchez...

But I thought the boys in the hood are always hard?

I've been told that if you start talking that trash, they'll pull your card.

I'm beginning to question if you know anything in life about being legit.

Don't quote me on it, because I haven't said shit.

Is your punk ass, tripping?

Now if you'll excuse me, I just scored a key, I'm gonna fly, punk ass, fly.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-05-2014, 02:40 PM
Alternatively.........you could engage in a discussion like you just did.

I'm not so sure... Would it mean that I'd have to start acting like a grown up, and be all stuffy and tight assed?

Would I have to be so myopic, that I am no longer able to understand obscure cultural references, or appreciate off kilter humor?

Hmmm, that sounds like a tall order. Would you be willing to teach me?

TJMAC77SP
09-05-2014, 03:04 PM
I'm not so sure... Would it mean that I'd have to start acting like a grown up, and be all stuffy and tight assed?

Would I have to be so myopic, that I am no longer able to understand obscure cultural references, or appreciate off kilter humor?

Hmmm, that sounds like a tall order. Would you be willing to teach me?

Evidently that is beyond my capabilities.

Rainmaker
09-05-2014, 03:23 PM
But I thought the boys in the hood are always hard?

I've been told that if you start talking that trash, they'll pull your card.

I'm beginning to question if you know anything in life about being legit.

Don't quote me on it, because I haven't said shit.

Is your punk ass, tripping?

Now if you'll excuse me, I just scored a key, I'm gonna fly, punk ass, fly.

Jockin da bitchez and slappin the hoes?

Rainmaker
09-05-2014, 03:29 PM
The 14 year old or 16 year old (male or female) may be more than willing to engage in sex with an adult. The larger issue is that the law has determined that at that age, they are not mature enough to make that decision; a point that I for the most part would agree with: they are after the instant satisfaction but not financially or emotionally able to deal with the potential long term consequences of 10 minutes of pleasure.

Yes, males are less likely to be emotionally 'scarred' like a young female may be; but the whole thing may open a bigger question about what we (by looking the other way when it is an underage male) are teaching / implying is the way a woman should be regarded or treated by a male.

In the case in Oklahoma you think the woman should get 45 years in prison for multiple counts of rape and sodomy just for giving the kid a beer and letting him stick it in her pooper? Oh the horror... that poor boy must be so twamatized...what a waste of taxpayer dollars.
Rainmaker thinks 16 is a reasonable age of consent for a male. Rainmaker wonders if it was the kid's mommy or some overzealous state prosecutor trying to make a career that brought the charges?,

Stalwart
09-05-2014, 03:59 PM
In the case in Oklahoma you think the woman should get 45 years in prison for multiple counts of rape and sodomy just for giving the kid a beer and letting him stick it in her pooper? Oh the horror... that poor boy must be so twamatized...what a waste of taxpayer dollars.
Rainmaker thinks 16 is a reasonable age of consent for a male. Rainmaker wonders if it was the kid's mommy or some overzealous state prosecutor trying to make a career that brought the charges?,

Do I think 45 years is reasonable, no.

And if it was the child's (emphasis here ... CHILD'S) mother, since the 'victim' here is still a minor the parent is well within their custodial rights to report the incident to police.

Personally, I don't think 16 is too far off the mark for reasonable consent ... but ... If the law in the state of Oklahoma (or where ever) is that the age of consent is 18 that is the law. When I was 16, I wasn't really mature enough to really understand the consequences of what I was trying to do with a girl ... I got lucky. I think in saying that to try to go out and get a piece of ass for a 16 year old male it is okay and a 16 year old female it is not is a poor message/lesson to teach youth ... of either gender.

Measure Man
09-05-2014, 04:26 PM
I know that in MD, VA, FL, NC, SC, GA, AZ, TX, and LA the biological father (if known & declared on the birth certificate) does have to give consent (sign away parental rights) for a child to be adopted. I only know about those states since those are the ones we worked with when we were pursuing domestic adoption.

In those states NO agency can intake a child for permanent placement where BOTH parents have not surrendered their rights or had them revoked by the state. For children who have been removed from the home but the parents right have not been terminated, those parents actually still have input on placement in foster homes for their children (have to consent if outside a certain distance from the biological parents etc.)

The agency we used in Maryland for our homestudy even goes through efforts to locate biological fathers when the birth certificate states "unknown" to prevent legal challenges to the adoption later.

Good to know. Seems completely reasonable to me.

sandsjames
09-05-2014, 04:34 PM
Do I think 45 years is reasonable, no.

And if it was the child's (emphasis here ... CHILD'S) mother, since the 'victim' here is still a minor the parent is well within their custodial rights to report the incident to police.

Personally, I don't think 16 is too far off the mark for reasonable consent ... but ... If the law in the state of Oklahoma (or where ever) is that the age of consent is 18 that is the law. When I was 16, I wasn't really mature enough to really understand the consequences of what I was trying to do with a girl ... I got lucky. I think in saying that to try to go out and get a piece of ass for a 16 year old male it is okay and a 16 year old female it is not is a poor message/lesson to teach youth ... of either gender.

Not sure if this has changed or not, but when I was stationed in Oklahoma (20 years ago) girls could get married at 14, with parental consent.

I am curious, though, why many parents now give their teenagers the okay to have sex ("because they'll do it anyway") then talk about the emotional trauma caused in a situation like this. Is it morally wrong what happened with this teacher, IMO? Yes. Is it a crisis? No.

If boys/girls weren't capable of handling this sort of thing at such a young age then I'm sure evolution would have adjusted so that puberty didn't hit until one reached 18.

Stalwart
09-05-2014, 05:13 PM
Not sure if this has changed or not, but when I was stationed in Oklahoma (20 years ago) girls could get married at 14, with parental consent.

I think that is still the case in a few states ... maybe not 14, maybe 16, I am not exactly sure. In the past marriage did generally come earlier in life (for females ... it seems many males married younger females.



I am curious, though, why many parents now give their teenagers the okay to have sex ("because they'll do it anyway") then talk about the emotional trauma caused in a situation like this. Is it morally wrong what happened with this teacher, IMO? Yes. Is it a crisis? No.

I don't agree with a parent 'surrendering' to the inevitable but do acknowledge that there comes a point that your child is going to make their own decisions, even if they are still a child. At that point, you just have to hope that they were raised with a set of values that supports good decision making.

I would agree that I don't think this is a crisis, but as you said ... morally this isn't really good to go. My hunch is that this type of thing, in some shape or fashion has gone on for some time, we are just able to hear about it much more easily now. 30 or 40 years ago, what would essentially be a local story in OK would never make the news here in MD.



If boys/girls weren't capable of handling this sort of thing at such a young age then I'm sure evolution would have adjusted so that puberty didn't hit until one reached 18.

Emotional development and physical development are not at all connected; the physical age at which a female can carry a child to term is not matched to her emotional development. I have met and known some really mature teenagers, I have also known adults in their 30's and beyond who were not really responsible for themselves more or less anyone else. In many cases, you are looking for the law to be able to work in the majority of cases.

As an aside on physical development, I see young teenagers today who don't look anything like I remember kids when I was 12, 13, 14 etc. Freshman high school football players as built as some of the college kids I remember, and females who look way more mature than their age would reveal. I have read some really interesting things how the foods we eat today (hormone enhanced beef, chicken pork etc. to produce more usable meat per animal) have actually moved up physical development / puberty in children and also has contributed to a larger stature & bone structure than in the past.

Stalwart
09-05-2014, 06:01 PM
Good to know. Seems completely reasonable to me.

In most cases I have seen it to be very reasonable. I know there true cases where a family/individuals get screwed by the state. Just based on my personal experience though, there are A LOT of really hard working people 'in the system', but there are issues with the system and the bureaucracy.

My older sister had 5 kids from 5 men, and the oldest 3 were removed from her care and she and the dad's signed away their rights' one died very young and the youngest was removed from her care and the father surrendered his right but my sister never did. This prevented my wife and I from taking her in our home until after my sister died. I was talking to the oldest 3 and they were talking about how their fathers' had been telling them that they were forced to surrender their rights, which (I wanted to tell them but didn't) can't happen. The state can move to revoke a parents rights (a long and tedious legal process), but if there is a document signed by the parent, then the parent did it themselves. Did / Does coercion happen

At the same time, my younger brother right now is in the process of signing away his visitation to his son in exchange for not having to pay his child support. IMO a bad move, since he is likely not to see his son at all after this ...

For custody, yes, the states I am familiar with generally default to placing a child with the mother, which is based on traditional family roles etc. I will say that in recent years, I have seen a growing number of children placed in the primary custody of their father vice the mother ... I don't know if this is a result of fathers being more willing to step up to the plate, or courts beginning to pull back on the 'default' assumption that the mother is always the better person of the two to raise a child.

USN - Retired
09-05-2014, 07:26 PM
So, your parents and grandparents would make sure you have nightmares for years, possibly PTSD, have difficulty with future relationships?

Mine wouldn't. Others might. Is it likely in our country for a young teenager to become a parent and not be traumatized by the experience?


I didn't dodge the question...it is a completely different topic and has nothing to do with their ages?

In post #22, you dodged my question in post # 16, specifically the question about hard prison time for passing an STD. You did eventually respond to my question in post #28.


Happens all the time...if you drive drunk and get in a noninjury accident...probation, maybe a weekend in jail...if that person dies, you're looking at 10 years.

I was referring to sentencing involving statutory rape.


Some of the attitudes you two guys are displaying toward women don't seem very enlightened to me.

To question any part of feminist dogma is often characterized as misogyny in and of itself, much like any question against the policies of Israel is reflexively labeled as Anti-Semitism.

Feminist often say that they want equality, but they only seem to really want equality when it is convenient for women.



When a legal conflict arises about the fate of a child in our country, the scales are balanced in favor of mother and child.

I'm impressed that you would even admit the scales are balanced in favor of the mother in the family court system. Are you being serious? I'm not trying to provoke you, but it is hard to tell sometimes whether you are being serious.

A family court system that is biased in favor of women does not sound "enlightened" to me, nor does it sound like equality.


What rights would you bestow upon males when it comes to abortion and custody?

Abortion: Males should have zero rights. None. Zip. Nada. Women should have 100% rights.

It is her body and her choice, 100% (you are probably with me so far).

Since it is HER body and HER choice, 100%, then financial support of the child should be HER responsibility 100% (I probably just lost you).

Custody: A difficult subject. Much open and objective discussion would be needed to find a solution. One thing is clear though, the current family court system is broken beyond repair.

garhkal
09-05-2014, 07:45 PM
Seems pretty simple why there is a double standard.

Men and women have completely different emotional responses to sex. Especially for young girls. Girls do it for acceptance...guys do it to get laid. It's the same reason guys are rarely victims in sexual assault cases.

More like the powers that be (law, society) seem to view men can't be victims, cause they feel 'men always want it'.


Seriously, all joking aside for a moment.

Some of the attitudes you two guys are displaying toward women don't seem very enlightened to me.

Trust me AA, my skin is thick enough that your possible attacks in some others eyes, are water under the bridge to me.
But onto your other points in that post.


Does the female parent have control over the fate of an unborn child? Absolutely, but it is a mere function of biology, rather than the result of liberalism rum amok.

While that is true, why is it the 'father' has absolutely no say in whether she gets the fetuses aborted? As i mentioned earlier, with the military at least, a wife DOES have a say in whether a guy can get a Vasectomy. So why don't we get the same in relation to whether our 'wives' get aborted or not? But then again the same goes for parents and their kids wanting abortions. Several states do allow the kids to get it without even TELLING their parents, let alone needing their permission.


Does the female parent hold more sway in legal matters concerning the upbringing and custodial status of the child? Yes, but I would point to a court system and laws that acknowledge nature.

When a legal conflict arises about the fate of a child in our country, the scales are balanced in favor of mother and child.

To me, it seems more unbalanced. That all things being equal otherwise, 90%+ of the time the courts will side with mommy dearest, is imo a massive disparity and is doing a disservice to fathers.


To me, this doesn't seem like an injustice, and I have a hard time seeing why you guys are characterizing it as one.

As said before, if we are going to push equal opportunity as much as it has been over the past 20+ years, then we should make it TRULY equal. No double standards for sex, race etc. Favoring one sex over the other in legal conflicts/issues, IS making a double standard and as such is not showing proper equal opportunity.


What rights would you bestow upon males when it comes to abortion and custody?

How's about if mom wants to abort it, dad has to 'sign off' just like with the Vasectomy issue mentioned above. If mom doesn't want to keep it (adopt it out) same applies. And when it comes to divorce, give fathers equal chance of gaining control.



In terms of sex crimes against minors, and sentencing guidelines. Sometimes the judges make wrong calls and hand out sentences that are too lenient or too harsh. Regardless of the victims gender, judges are going to make the wrong call in someone's eyes.

I don't see a way to correct that.

Hows about start holding those judges accountable for following the guidelines. Make wrong calls, and pay a penalty. Make to many and lose their 'robes'.


When a person takes a news story about the outcome of a particular case and starts claiming a societal bias against men, I can't help, but to roll my eyes, if on an Internet forum, I'm prone to take a cheap shot at them.

The reason i do it, is i am seeing more and more OF those cases seeming to show a bias in favor of Gals. I remember back in the 90s, all the cases in the news of this or that org being sued to allow women to join, cause it is sexually discriminatory to not do so. But i see all these "womens only gyms" in the phone books, and wonder why we rarely hear of any lawsuits against them, and even when there are suits, the judges usually (from what i have seen) rule in FAVOR of the ladies. Basing it on that "Women need their privacy".. It does show (imo) a bias.


I don't agree with a parent 'surrendering' to the inevitable but do acknowledge that there comes a point that your child is going to make their own decisions, even if they are still a child. At that point, you just have to hope that they were raised with a set of values that supports good decision making.

Same here. Just like i disagree with those parents who decide to host underage drinking parties at their house, 'just cause we know little johney will go out and get drunk, at least under our house we can monitor who is getting drunk'..


As an aside on physical development, I see young teenagers today who don't look anything like I remember kids when I was 12, 13, 14 etc. Freshman high school football players as built as some of the college kids I remember, and females who look way more mature than their age would reveal. I have read some really interesting things how the foods we eat today (hormone enhanced beef, chicken pork etc. to produce more usable meat per animal) have actually moved up physical development / puberty in children and also has contributed to a larger stature & bone structure than in the past.

Same. One of the gals who tried sneaking into a bar near where i work night time security at, was grabbed for a fake ID, even though she LOOKED 22-24, she was only 14. Was out with big sis, and wanted to experience the sensation of alcohol she told cops. Then you have some of the guys i see, who i would put in their mid 30s, who are barely 25.. Its hard to tell physical age, let alone mental age for maturity.


To question any part of feminist dogma is often characterized as misogyny in and of itself, much like any question against the policies of Israel is reflexively labeled as Anti-Semitism.


It does seem that way. Just like if you question or raise the idea of Immigration reform/border control, cause of Illegal immigration, you are often labeled a Racist, even though not all illegals are Hispanic (which is a race, unlike Mexicans).

USN - Retired
09-05-2014, 07:47 PM
I know that in MD, VA, FL, NC, SC, GA, AZ, TX, and LA the biological father (if known & declared on the birth certificate) does have to give consent (sign away parental rights) for a child to be adopted. I only know about those states since those are the ones we worked with when we were pursuing domestic adoption.

In those states NO agency can intake a child for permanent placement where BOTH parents have not surrendered their rights or had them revoked by the state. For children who have been removed from the home but the parents right have not been terminated, those parents actually still have input on placement in foster homes for their children (have to consent if outside a certain distance from the biological parents etc.)

The agency we used in Maryland for our homestudy even goes through efforts to locate biological fathers when the birth certificate states "unknown" to prevent legal challenges to the adoption later.

A woman doesn't need to go through the adoption process in order to get rid of her child. The safe haven laws allow her to leave her newborn infant with medical personnel at a hospital emergency room and walk away from all her responsibilities as a parent. No paperwork. No questions. The father of the newborn can be left completely out of the process. Consent of the father is not required.

Of note: I am not necessarily against the safe haven laws.

USN - Retired
09-05-2014, 08:15 PM
NO rights, just responsibilities.
And what i find worse, is if that happens to be a couple where one is military, if hubby wants a vacetomy, he needs wifies permission.

I have no children, and I got my vasectomy back in 1997. I was still on active duty back then. I was single back then and I have no children. I quickly realized that the military wasn't going to give me a vasectomy, so I scheduled a vasectomy with a civilian urologist out in town. I seem to remember that the vasectomy cost me approximately $400.00.

Does the affordable care act, aka Obamacare, cover vasectomies?

Measure Man
09-05-2014, 08:30 PM
Mine wouldn't. Others might. Is it likely in our country for a young teenager to become a parent and not be traumatized by the experience?

...but this case isn't about anyone becomeing a parent...it's about some teenagers having sex with a 25 yr old teacher. Believe it or not, a lot of people have sex all the time without become parents.


In post #22, you dodged my question in post # 16, specifically the question about hard prison time for passing an STD. You did eventually respond to my question in post #28.

Again...this issue has nothing to do with the ages/positions of the people involved...so it matters not to this issue. We can what if a million things that are unrelated to the issue of the ages/position of the teacher and child. All of these side issues of becoming a parent, getting an STD, etc. has nothing to do with this issues...those are the same whether the two people are 25 and 15, 25 and 25 or 15 and 15.


I was referring to sentencing involving statutory rape.

Right, I was just illustrating another example...so, the issue proposed in the OP is that women get a more lenient sentence for having sex with underage males than a man would for having sex with underage females. Do you think this is true?

If true...do you think it could be because the impact on the victims is less...or at least perceived by society as less? Or do you just it's just because the court systems hate men...and the same would happen if they stole money from the school?

mel44
09-05-2014, 08:37 PM
It is perception I think. If a male on female it is perceived the girl was unwilling but forced, if it is female on male the perception is the male must have been somewhat willing by semantics. I personally think it is the opposite, young females tend to be more aggressive and seductive where as young males are reactive. Hey guys!:cool:

Stalwart
09-05-2014, 08:49 PM
A woman doesn't need to go through the adoption process in order to get rid of her child. The safe haven laws allow her to leave her newborn infant with medical personnel at a hospital emergency room and walk away from all her responsibilities as a parent. No paperwork. No questions. The father of the newborn can be left completely out of the process. Consent of the father is not required.

Of note: I am not necessarily against the safe haven laws.

True, but if the father is looking for his child, there are checks for that. Safe Haven (Baby Moses) Laws in all states have requirements that state and federal authorities are notified of the surrender of a child to check if that child is being looked for by family etc. Granted, if the father didn't know about the pregnancy he wouldn't be looking and I am not saying it is perfect ... far from that. But the number heavily skews towards adoption & foster care. Is it possible a dad or many dads are getting the shaft in these situations, sure ... but I don't think it is because the system is designed in such a way so as to target them.

The numbers of children who are surrendered via safe haven laws are much smaller than those that are placed for foster care or adoption. A quick pull from the internet: From January 1, 2001, to March 31, 2014, 621 newborns have been surrendered in California. When I compare that to in one year (2008) 135,813 children were adopted in the US.

I am personally more familiar with VA & MD, where I lived now and previously and in MD in 2013, 4 children were surrendered via Safe Haven laws, which is again heavily outweighed by adoption.

Rainmaker
09-05-2014, 08:53 PM
this type of hysteria is just Further evidence of the pussification of America. What used to be every teenaged guy's fantasy has now turned into a serious crime by the overbearing Nanny state that has to keep its victim society safe as baby in bubble wrapped crib.

Young Rainmaker would've loved to have had pretty Miss Hayes in 10th grade English bump her heart shaped ass into his twig n berries. bet never had no such luck. Nomsayin.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_for_Teacher

sandsjames
09-05-2014, 08:53 PM
If this sort of thing was about the emotional stability of a teenager and the ability to handle sexual situations, then why isn't sex between two teenagers illegal? Hell, that's 2 people who aren't emotionally ready, not just one.

The actual problem is ANYONE in a position of power using that position. Whether it's two adults, one adult/one teenager, etc.

I'll be in an uproar about the emotional scarring of a teenage boy/girl when the law says they can't have sex at all because they aren't capable of making good decisions. Until then, it's purely situational.

Stalwart
09-05-2014, 09:49 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_for_Teacher

Good song. +1

BENDER56
09-06-2014, 05:05 PM
I'll be in an uproar about the emotional scarring of a teenage boy/girl when the law says they can't have sex at all because they aren't capable of making good decisions. Until then, it's purely situational.

Awesome idea. Let's criminalize more behaviors that humans commonly engage in. That'll show us! Besides, we might have a bunch of prison cells sitting empty if this drug legalization trend catches on. We can fill 'em with hormone-addled teenagers! Won't somebody think of the potentially out-of-work correction officers?!

sandsjames
09-06-2014, 07:12 PM
Awesome idea. Let's criminalize more behaviors that humans commonly engage in. That'll show us! Besides, we might have a bunch of prison cells sitting empty if this drug legalization trend catches on. We can fill 'em with hormone-addled teenagers! Won't somebody think of the potentially out-of-work correction officers?!

Didn't say we should criminalize it. Just saying that there isn't apparently any emotional issues people worry about with teenagers having sex with teenagers so why should I be worried about the emotional distress of a teenager and adult...that's all.

BENDER56
09-06-2014, 10:05 PM
Didn't say we should criminalize it. Just saying that there isn't apparently any emotional issues people worry about with teenagers having sex with teenagers so why should I be worried about the emotional distress of a teenager and adult...that's all.

Ah, okay. I didn't read it correctly the first time. My bad.

The reason we haven't criminalized sexual activity between minors is, I surmise, because we see it as behavior that is driven by hormonal urges that (most) minors don't yet understand. If it's truly a case of kids experimenting due to new and unfamiliar feelings, it's hard to see either of them as a victim. Although, as others have pointed out here, some kids become sexually mature and sexually aware much earlier than others, so some of those cases could be seen as having a perpetrator and a victim. But the age-of-consent laws are imperfect and based on age(s) alone. It's the best we've got for now.

But we do see a victim in the case of an adult -- who can manipulate/confuse/intimidate a minor -- using a minor for his/her sexual pleasure. It's one of our most agreed upon cultural values that adults should not have sex with minors because it's too easy for some children to be inappropriately taken advantage of by unscrupulous adults.

As for the whole double-standard thing regarding male-adult/female-minor sex, versus female-adult/male-minor sex; all I can say it seems to exist. Can't say it's right or wrong, but it's there.


(Still, we gotta do something with all those empty prison cells once they let all the druggies out. We can't just have every American citizen running around all not locked up & $h!t.)

garhkal
09-07-2014, 10:10 AM
But we do see a victim in the case of an adult -- who can manipulate/confuse/intimidate a minor -- using a minor for his/her sexual pleasure. It's one of our most agreed upon cultural values that adults should not have sex with minors because it's too easy for some children to be inappropriately taken advantage of by unscrupulous adults.

But what i never understand is how someone goes from being a hormonally charged young man (or woman) at 17, and all of a sudden when they hit 18, it is now wrong?

Stalwart
09-07-2014, 11:20 AM
But what i never understand is how someone goes from being a hormonally charged young man (or woman) at 17, and all of a sudden when they hit 18, it is now wrong?

Being able to join the military at 17 with parental consent but not able to vote until 18 is kind of the same, or not being able to order a beer at 20 years, 11 months and 29 days but on the 21st birthday you can ... the same thing. People don't suddenly become mature, that is just the cutoff based on the law. In theory they should have mature by that time (kind of the same idea that promoting someone doesn't really make them any more knowledgeable or better at their job solely based on the promotion.)

I have known 16-year olds whose life circumstances made them very mature early in life; I have known 25 and 30-year olds who probably should not be afforded any responsibility for themselves more or less others.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-07-2014, 04:00 PM
I'm impressed that you would even admit the scales are balanced in favor of the mother in the family court system. Are you being serious? I'm not trying to provoke you, but it is hard to tell sometimes whether you are being serious.

A family court system that is biased in favor of women does not sound "enlightened" to me, nor does it sound like equality.

Yes, I was sincere with that statement.

It sounds like it is in the best interest of the child, which is particularly enlightened in my way of thinking.

For young children, there is a special bond between mother and child that is part of the developmental process of our species.

Unless the mother has a documented flaw, like drug addiction, criminal behavior, or psychosis, most family courts will not take primary residence away from the mother.

When children are nearer in age to adolescence, sometimes the court does seek input from the child, but I think those cases are rare.

Call it unfair if you wish, but I contend that the concept of fairness is elusive, and often muddled.

Our world is far from perfect, as you well know, and we have to cope as best we can. Putting the child's interests first, seems not only logical, but honorable.






Abortion: Males should have zero rights. None. Zip. Nada. Women should have 100% rights.

It is her body and her choice, 100% (you are probably with me so far).

Since it is HER body and HER choice, 100%, then financial support of the child should be HER responsibility 100% (I probably just lost you).

Yes, you just lost me. In the interest of the child, the biological father should pay child support.

A quick word on abortions, personally, I find the idea of aborting a fetus terrifying. I wish our society would do more to dissuade the practice.

I think it is a sad and regrettable decision for a female to make; however, there are a few scenarios involving medical issues, rape, incest, or some other complex circumstance where it might be for the best. Still it seems like a regrettable choice.

As I said before, our world isn't perfect. As a species, humanity is inherently flawed and we must cope as best we can.

To expect total fairness is as foolish as believing in Santa Claus, magic, deities, or the Christian God.

Let me close by pointing at your use of upper case letters to spell the word "her." It indicates you are screaming and that you have great anger toward women, a clear indicator of misogyny. (Hint: That was satire, a humorous exaggeration that strikes at a true belief about another's ideas.)

TJMAC77SP
09-07-2014, 04:33 PM
Yes, I was sincere with that statement.

It sounds like it is in the best interest of the child, which is particularly enlightened in my way of thinking.

For young children, there is a special bond between mother and child that is part of the developmental process of our species.

Unless the mother has a documented flaw, like drug addiction, criminal behavior, or psychosis, most family courts will not take primary residence away from the mother.

When children are nearer in age to adolescence, sometimes the court does seek input from the child, but I think those cases are rare.

Call it unfair if you wish, but I contend that the concept of fairness is elusive, and often muddled.

Our world is far from perfect, as you well know, and we have to cope as best we can. Putting the child's interests first, seems not only logical, but honorable.



Yes, you just lost me. In the interest of the child, the biological father should pay child support.

A quick word on abortions, personally, I find the idea of aborting a fetus terrifying. I wish our society would do more to dissuade the practice.

I think it is a sad and regrettable decision for a female to make; however, there are a few scenarios involving medical issues, rape, incest, or some other complex circumstance where it might be for the best. Still it seems like a regrettable choice.

As I said before, our world isn't perfect. As a species, humanity is inherently flawed and we must cope as best we can.

To expect total fairness is as foolish as believing in Santa Claus, magic, deities, or the Christian God.

Let me close by pointing at your use of upper case letters to spell the word "her." It indicates you are screaming and that you have great anger toward women, a clear indicator of misogyny. (Hint: That was satire, a humorous exaggeration that strikes at a true belief about another's ideas.)

How about a Hindu god. Would that be foolish to believe in as well?

Absinthe Anecdote
09-07-2014, 04:47 PM
How about a Hindu god. Would that be foolish to believe in as well?

Yes.

Since Hinduism is a polytheistic religion, the word "deities" encompassed believers of the Hindu faith.

I felt the need to give the Christian God, his own billing to give my satirical quip a bit more resonance with the readership of this particular forum.

It is my sincere belief, expressed in a satirical (exaggerated) manner.

Total fairness is as elusive as any god.

BENDER56
09-07-2014, 05:40 PM
But what i never understand is how someone goes from being a hormonally charged young man (or woman) at 17, and all of a sudden when they hit 18, it is now wrong?

Like I said earlier in the comment you quoted, age-of-consent laws based solely on age are imperfect. So what's the alternative?

Rainmaker
09-07-2014, 06:03 PM
Like I said earlier in the comment you quoted, age-of-consent laws based solely on age are imperfect. So what's the alternative?

Rainmaker recommends using the "half your age plus 7 rule".

USN - Retired
09-07-2014, 07:55 PM
It sounds like it is in the best interest of the child, which is particularly enlightened in my way of thinking.

As long as our society allows a healthy adult woman, who has not been the victim of rape or incest, to have her healthy unborn child killed (i.e. aborted, euthanized) simply because the woman believes that the her unborn child will be an inconvenience to her, then I think it is hypocrisy for us as a society to talk about the "best interest of the child".


Yes, you just lost me. In the interest of the child, the biological father should pay child support.

If we are really interested in the "best interest of the child", then why don't we also pass laws that make the grandparents provide financial support for their grandchildren? If a man and/or a woman are not acting responsibly as parents, then shouldn't the parents of that man and/or woman be held financially responsible? In other words, if we are going to legally force a man to assume responsibility for his children, then why don't we also legally force grandparents to take a greater role in the raising of their grandchildren" ? Wouldn't that be in the "best interest of the child, especially if the father of the child is unwilling or unable to work?


A quick word on abortions, personally, I find the idea of aborting a fetus terrifying. I wish our society would do more to dissuade the practice.

That's a nice thought, but I don't see it happening.


For young children, there is a special bond between mother and child that is part of the developmental process of our species.

Unless the mother has a documented flaw, like drug addiction, criminal behavior, or psychosis, most family courts will not take primary residence away from the mother.

What if the mother is the sole financial provider for the family and the father is a stay-at-home dad? Should the mother still get primary custody and should the stay-at-home dad find a job to pay child support?

Most of society thinks the way that you do. Most men in the military think the way that you do. Given that our society looks upon fathers as second class parents, I often wonder why a man would even want to be a father in our country today.

I don't have any children and I never will, so I don't have a dog in this fight, but I have seen many men, especially men in the military, who have been financially crushed by the family court system . I often wonder what the heck were they thinking when they got married and started breeding like a rabbit.


. (Hint: That was satire, a humorous exaggeration that strikes at a true belief about another's ideas.)

Of perhaps you are using satire in an attempt to draw attention away from my valid points and questions.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-07-2014, 09:29 PM
As long as our society allows a healthy adult woman, who has not been the victim of rape or incest, to have her healthy unborn child killed (i.e. aborted, euthanized) simply because the woman believes that the her unborn child will be an inconvenience to her, then I think it is laughable hypocrisy for us as a society to talk about the "best interest of the child".



You are mixing the family court discussion with the abortion discussion.

As far as I know, family courts don't get involved in abortion cases.

For the record, I find abortion for the sake of birth control appalling. I think in the vast majority of circumstances, it is a horrible thing to do and dishonorable.




Of perhaps you are using satire in an attempt to draw attention away from my valid points and questions.

Nope, although I'm sure you think that. A great many of your comments seem hostile toward women, and reminiscent of great bitterness.

At the very least, you are just as militant as the feminists that you rail against. I guess that makes you a militant masculinist?

You seem over-the-top obsessed with male rights. Garkhal comes off this way too.

USN - Retired
09-07-2014, 10:00 PM
You are mixing the family court discussion with the abortion discussion.

What I am doing is looking at the big picture. You should give it a try sometime.


A great many of your comments seem hostile toward women, and reminiscent of great bitterness.

At the very least, you are just as militant as the feminists that you rail against. I guess that makes you a militant masculinist?

You seem over-the-top obsessed with male rights. Garkhal comes off this way too.

Those comments of yours are nothing more than an ad hominem attack.

You are starting to bore me. You need to do a better job entertaining me, or I am just going to ignore you. That's your first warning.

garhkal
09-07-2014, 10:13 PM
I have known 16-year olds whose life circumstances made them very mature early in life; I have known 25 and 30-year olds who probably should not be afforded any responsibility for themselves more or less others.

Same here. Just cause someone is 16 does Not make them a kid, and just cause someone is 21+ does not mean they are mature adults.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-07-2014, 10:23 PM
What I am doing is looking at the big picture. You should give it a try sometime.



Those comments of yours are nothing more than an ad hominem attack.

You are starting to bore me. You need to do a better job entertaining me, or I am just going to ignore you. That's your first warning.

Fair enough, you are on double-secret probation for omitting relevant sections of my posts when you quote me.