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garhkal
09-01-2014, 07:13 PM
I like Watching the Fox news noon slot "Outnumbered" cause usually its funny as heck to see the 4 gals going against the one guy. But this afternoon's segment where they went over a pair of UNC students, protesting against Ladies night was imo wrong. It seemed to show all 5 of the participants on the show all for it, when they themselves have bantered about discrimination in other aspects of society.

So why is it many people feel "ladies nights" are legal? Why do they not see it as being discriminatory?
Would it be considered discrimination, if say i had a Restaurant, or Club, where men got in free but women had to pay?
If so, why is the opposite not true?
Or is it like many other aspects of society, where its wrong if its men(or whites) benefiting, but not wrong when its the females (or other minority) benefiting?

http://weaselzippers.us/197140-unc-students-protest-ladies-night-at-bars-because-its-sexist/

http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/business-career/legal/ladies-night-legal?page=all

http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2014/08/21/unc-students-ladies-night-promotions-are-sexist-and-should-end/

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=5848

efmbman
09-01-2014, 07:53 PM
There are many hypocritical double standards in that arena. For example, a woman can say that she will absolutely not date or be with a man that is under 6' tall. No backlash. However, let a man say that he will absolutely not date or be with a woman that is overweight (let's say over size 10) and WHOA!!!! That man is now the reason so many women have developed eating disorders and that man is contributing to the unhealthy and unachievable body type that the fashion industry perpetuates. Never mind that it is unlikely to be able to grow a few inches.. but losing weight is actually possible (and healthy).

BENDER56
09-01-2014, 08:41 PM
I like Watching the Fox news noon slot "Outnumbered" cause usually its funny as heck to see the 4 gals going against the one guy. But this afternoon's segment where they went over a pair of UNC students, protesting against Ladies night was imo wrong. It seemed to show all 5 of the participants on the show all for it, when they themselves have bantered about discrimination in other aspects of society.

So why is it many people feel "ladies nights" are legal? Why do they not see it as being discriminatory?
Would it be considered discrimination, if say i had a Restaurant, or Club, where men got in free but women had to pay?
If so, why is the opposite not true?
Or is it like many other aspects of society, where its wrong if its men(or whites) benefiting, but not wrong when its the females (or other minority) benefiting?

http://weaselzippers.us/197140-unc-students-protest-ladies-night-at-bars-because-its-sexist/

http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/business-career/legal/ladies-night-legal?page=all

http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2014/08/21/unc-students-ladies-night-promotions-are-sexist-and-should-end/

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=5848

The problem is that, contrary to most people's misconception, not all discrimination is illegal. Forgive me for putting it uber-obviously, but the only discrimination that is illegal is illegal discrimination. Illegal discrimination is defined under many, many different federal, state and municipal statutes and can involve employment opportunity, fair housing, civil rights, voters' rights, and lots of other things to include, on a less cut-and-dried level, access to private businesses.

Most of these laws only apply to government entities. As individuals, we can, and do, discriminate all we please. In its most general sense, discrimination means simply to distinguish differences among things. We discriminate when we decide what clothes to buy, where to go out to eat, what kind of vehicle to drive, who we associate with, etc.

I haven't heard it in a while, but it used to be a high compliment to say of someone that they were, "a person of discriminating tastes." That described a person who could discern the nuances among various choices and only opt for the best. None of this discriminating means we're all racists, sexists, ageists, etc. It just means life offers constant choices and we have to discriminate among them.

Back to illegal discrimination; under most applications of illegal discrimination laws, private businesses aren't wholly exempt, but owners of such establishments have some wiggle room in determining who they will or won't serve. Someone who smells horrible or is belligerent might legally be denied service. A lot depends on if the person refused service is part of a "protected class" and if the owner is consistent in his/her policies. Private businesses are supposed to comply with fair hiring laws, too, but I've never seen a male Hooters waiter.

Do ladies' nights violate any of the myriad discrimination laws? I don't know. I guess the main thing about them is that they aren't denying anybody access, which is what most illegal discrimination laws address.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-01-2014, 10:24 PM
@garkhal

Once again you are on the narrative that white males are being discriminated against.

Is this the best evidence you could find? The two UNC students are protesting on behalf of women.

I really question your ability to follow a news story beyond the headline. The second link you posted is more relevant to your claim, but that lawsuit was tossed out of court.

This concept doesn’t go over well with UNC seniors Trevor Dougherty and Rob Sekay. The duo often DJ at local bars and say they think the attraction is “demeaning to female bargoers.”


As a white male, I must ask you to quit trying to make me a victim.

I'm strong and proud, and I don't need you trying to cover me in the blanket of victimhood.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
09-01-2014, 10:24 PM
In a free market, the business owner takes the risk of turning off customers, including those men who gladly fork over the cash to get into the (hopefully) female dominated bar. I say the "hurt feelings club" find something else to complain about, starting with the leftist professors who go far beyond their stated curriculum by using their "pulpits" to push their pro-Cuban/Venezuelan/pick your flavor agendas.

TJMAC77SP
09-02-2014, 12:07 AM
@garkhal

Once again you are on the narrative that white males are being discriminated against.

Is this the best evidence you could find? The two UNC students are protesting on behalf of women.

I really question your ability to follow a news story beyond the headline. The second link you posted is more relevant to your claim, but that lawsuit was tossed out of court.

This concept doesn’t go over well with UNC seniors Trevor Dougherty and Rob Sekay. The duo often DJ at local bars and say they think the attraction is “demeaning to female bargoers.”


As a white male, I must ask you to quit trying to make me a victim.

I'm strong and proud, and I don't need you trying to cover me in the blanket of victimhood.

One case was dismissed. Others (and administrative rulings) have gone the other way.

Regardless of Garhkel's motivation, there is a point to be made. I do agree however that this is definitely a tempest in a teapot.

Sort of like removing bibles from Navy Lodges and other such nonsense. Hardly worth the effort being expended.

USN - Retired
09-02-2014, 02:33 AM
As a white male, I must ask you to quit trying to make me a victim.

I'm strong and proud, and I don't need you trying to cover me in the blanket of victimhood.

You are "proud"? Really? Why are you "proud"?

garhkal
09-02-2014, 07:54 AM
Back to illegal discrimination; under most applications of illegal discrimination laws, private businesses aren't wholly exempt, but owners of such establishments have some wiggle room in determining who they will or won't serve. Someone who smells horrible or is belligerent might legally be denied service. A lot depends on if the person reused service is part of a "protected class" and if the owner is consistent in his/her policies. Private businesses are supposed to comply with fair hiring laws, too, but I've never seen a male Hooters waiter.

Do ladies' nights violate any of the myriad discrimination laws? I don't know. I guess the main thing about them is that they aren't denying anybody access, which is what most illegal discrimination laws address.

During my search for sites on this subject, one that asked whether they are legal or not, did mention that in some states they ARE considered illegal, based on the fact that bars and night clubs are heavily regulated by the state (liquor licenses etc). So there is that.
And where i see some complaining about them, is the "Unequal access" aspect. I have never heard of a man's night where men get in free or have free or discounted drinks.


One case was dismissed. Others (and administrative rulings) have gone the other way.

Regardless of Garhkel's motivation, there is a point to be made. I do agree however that this is definitely a tempest in a teapot.

Thanks for the back up TJMAC.. Part of why I bring this up, is how i see more and more instances in society/the law, where it seems its OK to discriminate against men. Such as with all the fitness centers out there which are women only (when for many years men only ones were getting sued like crazy). Or how some breast cancer research orgs only seem to deal with women's breast cancer, and don't care about men who get it.
It seems to me like a double standard.

USN - Retired
09-02-2014, 12:20 PM
@garkhal

Once again you are on the narrative that white males are being discriminated against.

Is this the best evidence you could find? The two UNC students are protesting on behalf of women.

Are you saying that white males are not the victims of discrimination?
How about affirmative action? Affirmative action is good evidence of discrimination against white males.

Affirmative action is a euphemism for discrimination against whites, especially white males.




As a white male, I must ask you to quit trying to make me a victim.

I'm strong and proud, and I don't need you trying to cover me in the blanket of victimhood.

So are you saying that garkhal should not (shall not?) even discuss this issue simply because you disagree with his point? Do you speak for all white males? You are not the moderator of this forum and it is not your place in life to tell us what we can and can not discuss. If this discussion is of no interest to you, then you are free to leave.

sandsjames
09-02-2014, 12:26 PM
Ladies nights are not discrimination. They are, in fact, a way to make things "easier" for men. I promise you that it's not a female who created ladies night.

Absinthe Anecdote
09-02-2014, 01:01 PM
As a white male, I must ask you to quit trying to make me a victim.

I'm strong and proud, and I don't need you trying to cover me in the blanket of victimhood.

USN - Retired

And anyone else who took the above quote as literal.

Wake up and smell the sarcasm!

That was a jab at the ultra right-wing narrative that blacks and other minorities cloak themselves in "the blanket of victimization" to the point that it is an industry of victimhood.

Mark Levin, Sean Hannity, and others routinely speak this.

I find it amusing that garkhal trotted out ladie's night as an example of the white man being down trodden.

Equally amusing is that his primary article for this thread was about two students who object to ladies' night because it is demeaning to women.

If he wants to show discrimination toward men, he should at least be able to find an article on dudes protesting ladies night on those grounds.

This is a silly silly thread, and no, I don't really want garkhal being a spokesman for males, but it is a free country, so have at it.

I still maintain that I am not a victim.

USN - Retired
09-02-2014, 02:13 PM
And anyone else who took the above quote as literal.

Wake up and smell the sarcasm!

AA is backpedaling again.




I still maintain that I am not a victim.

In the years following the US civil war, few people had anything good to say about Jefferson Davis, the first and only President of the Confederacy. Even many Southerners didn't like him after the civil war. He did have a few supporters though. Interestingly, the former slaves of Jefferson Davis were strong supporters of Jefferson Davis. Even well after the civil war, the former slaves of Jefferson Davis thought that Jefferson Davis was a really good man. Does that mean that Jefferson Davis was a good man? Was he a good master to his slaves? Or does it mean that the former slaves of Jefferson Davis had been brainwashed since birth to think a certain way, and they simply couldn't see the situation for what it was? Specifically, were the former slaves Of Jefferson Davis never really a victim of Jefferson Davis, or were they simply unable to realize that they had been a victim of Jefferson Davis?

@ AA: Just like the former slaves of Jefferson Davis, you have obviously been brainwashed since birth to think a certain way. Perhaps your years of feminist and liberal brainwashing prevent you from seeing that our society today considers white males to be second class citizens. Or perhaps you are consumed with white male guilt, and you believe that you deserve less in life because you are a white male.

USN - Retired
09-02-2014, 02:19 PM
Ladies nights are not discrimination. They are, in fact, a way to make things "easier" for men. I promise you that it's not a female who created ladies night.

If a man is really looking for an "easier" way to pick up women, then he should go to Thailand or the Philippines.

The whole concept of "ladies night" does show just how sad and pathetic most men have become in our country today.

TJMAC77SP
09-02-2014, 02:53 PM
@USN - Retired (http://forums.militarytimes.com/member.php?u=8549)

And anyone else who took the above quote as literal.

Wake up and smell the sarcasm!

That was a jab at the ultra right-wing narrative that blacks and other minorities cloak themselves in "the blanket of victimization" to the point that it is an industry of victimhood.

Mark Levin, Sean Hannity, and others routinely speak this.

I find it amusing that garkhal trotted out ladie's night as an example of the white man being down trodden.

Equally amusing is that his primary article for this thread was about two students who object to ladies' night because it is demeaning to women.

If he wants to show discrimination toward men, he should at least be able to find an article on dudes protesting ladies night on those grounds.

This is a silly silly thread, and no, I don't really want garkhal being a spokesman for males, but it is a free country, so have at it.

I still maintain that I am not a victim.

I think most got your sarcasm as I saw the same in the OP. I also saw the underlying message in the OP which I am sure you didn't miss either.

TJMAC77SP
09-02-2014, 02:57 PM
If a man is really looking for an "easier" way to pick up women, then he should go to Thailand or the Philippines.

The whole concept of "ladies night" does show just how sad and pathetic most men have become in our country today.

SJ was right. I don't think this thread was actually intended to be a discussion of discrimination against men. At least I didn't read it that way. I saw it as a discussion starter over the complete idiocy that has gripped our society where every single perceived slight, regardless of how unintentional or inane is given credibility.

sandsjames
09-02-2014, 03:45 PM
If a man is really looking for an "easier" way to pick up women, then he should go to Thailand or the Philippines.

The whole concept of "ladies night" does show just how sad and pathetic most men have become in our country today.

All ladies night is about is making money for the bar/club. It's advertisement. That's it. Nothing more. And you're going to talk about picking up women in Thailand and the Philippines, then talk about ladies night being sad and pathetic?

Measure Man
09-02-2014, 03:49 PM
I like Watching the Fox news noon slot "Outnumbered" cause usually its funny as heck to see the 4 gals going against the one guy. But this afternoon's segment where they went over a pair of UNC students, protesting against Ladies night was imo wrong. It seemed to show all 5 of the participants on the show all for it, when they themselves have bantered about discrimination in other aspects of society.

So why is it many people feel "ladies nights" are legal? Why do they not see it as being discriminatory?
Would it be considered discrimination, if say i had a Restaurant, or Club, where men got in free but women had to pay?
If so, why is the opposite not true?
Or is it like many other aspects of society, where its wrong if its men(or whites) benefiting, but not wrong when its the females (or other minority) benefiting?

http://weaselzippers.us/197140-unc-students-protest-ladies-night-at-bars-because-its-sexist/

http://www.quickanddirtytips.com/business-career/legal/ladies-night-legal?page=all

http://charlotte.cbslocal.com/2014/08/21/unc-students-ladies-night-promotions-are-sexist-and-should-end/

http://www.campusreform.org/?ID=5848

Yes, of course ladies nights are discriminatory.


The problem is that, contrary to most people's misconception, not all discrimination is illegal. Forgive me for putting it uber-obviously, but the only discrimination that is illegal is illegal discrimination.

+1...this is almost like a pet peeve of mine anymore with people shouting "that's discrmination!" Yes, a lot of things are discrimination that are not illegal discrimination, often times, this is good. Requiring a degree in engineering for an engineering position is discrimination...but, it is rightful discrimination. Eliminating registered sex offenders from elementary school teaching jobs...also discrimination.

Bars have Ladies Nights for one obvious reason...fill a bar with ladies and the men will come. It seems the protesters don't like that fact of human nature and are trying to rail against it.

Is it sexist? Are women the commodity being sold by the bars? Yes, probably...good luck trying to change the male/female dating dynamic of college students though. It is what it is. Any successful college-town bar owner knows a key to success is making the women like the bar...ask Jon Taffer.

BENDER56
09-02-2014, 07:04 PM
All ladies night is about is making money for the bar/club. It's advertisement. That's it. Nothing more. And you're going to talk about picking up women in Thailand and the Philippines, then talk about ladies night being sad and pathetic?

It usually goes beyond advertisement. If it's legal, the bar charges women less for drinks on Ladies Nights. (I say, "If it's legal," because when I lived in Massachusetts years ago, pretty much all drink promotions that involved reducing drink prices were illegal. Couldn't even have Happy Hours.) They do this to try to get more women to come to the bar -- especially on weeknights, which are traditionally less busy -- and where the women go, the men usually follow.

So if that's the case, it is a discriminatory practice against men (or in favor of women, if you prefer.)

The question is, does it constitute illegal discrimination?

USN - Retired
09-02-2014, 07:51 PM
All ladies night is about is making money for the bar/club. It's advertisement. That's it. Nothing more. And you're going to talk about picking up women in Thailand and the Philippines, then talk about ladies night being sad and pathetic?

That's not what you originally said. You said...


Ladies nights are not discrimination. They are, in fact, a way to make things "easier" for men.

YOU are the person who started using the word "easier".

There are certainly many sad and pathetic men in this country who travel overseas to meet women; however, if a man wants to meet a nice woman, he will probably have better luck in Thailand or the PI than he'll have in a bar in the US on ladies night.

garhkal
09-02-2014, 09:26 PM
So if that's the case, it is a discriminatory practice against men (or in favor of women, if you prefer.)

The question is, does it constitute illegal discrimination?

Hence this thread. Perhaps i could have labeled it better.

BENDER56
09-02-2014, 09:51 PM
Hence this thread. Perhaps i could have labeled it better.

Okay, so I finally figured I'd see what was in those links you included in the OP. The ones about the UNC guys were meh, but the second one was good. It essentially answers the question.

And the answers are:

1; It depends on which state you're in, and ...

2; even where they're not permitted nobody seems to enforce it or even care much.

sandsjames
09-02-2014, 10:48 PM
That's not what you originally said. You said...



YOU are the person who started using the word "easier".

There are certainly many sad and pathetic men in this country who travel overseas to meet women; however, if a man wants to meet a nice woman, he will probably have better luck in Thailand or the PI than he'll have in a bar in the US on ladies night.

It's both of my above comments...it's about advertising/bring in business AND it's making it easier for men.

sandsjames
09-02-2014, 10:49 PM
It usually goes beyond advertisement. If it's legal, the bar charges women less for drinks on Ladies Nights. (I say, "If it's legal," because when I lived in Massachusetts years ago, pretty much all drink promotions that involved reducing drink prices were illegal. Couldn't even have Happy Hours.) They do this to try to get more women to come to the bar -- especially on weeknights, which are traditionally less busy -- and where the women go, the men usually follow.




Making it cheaper for women makes it cheaper for men. Women will be more likely to buy there own so guys won't have to spend nearly as much money...

garhkal
09-03-2014, 04:38 AM
Okay, so I finally figured I'd see what was in those links you included in the OP. The ones about the UNC guys were meh, but the second one was good. It essentially answers the question.

And the answers are:

1; It depends on which state you're in, and ...

2; even where they're not permitted nobody seems to enforce it or even care much.

SO basically its a meaningless law since no one bothers enforcing it.

BENDER56
09-03-2014, 05:11 AM
SO basically its a meaningless law since no one bothers enforcing it.

Well, antidiscrimination laws have meaning when they are enforced. So the laws themselves aren't meaningless. Apparently, nobody cares to apply them to Ladies' Nights. But all it would take would be one lawsuit that a judge declares to have merit and that could all change.

BENDER56
09-03-2014, 05:14 AM
Making it cheaper for women makes it cheaper for men. Women will be more likely to buy there own so guys won't have to spend nearly as much money...

I know, right? It's a win-win. To hell with those guys who are complaining.

garhkal
09-03-2014, 06:18 PM
I know, right? It's a win-win. To hell with those guys who are complaining.

It's IMO attitudes like that which enable these sorts of discrimination is ok situations.

Kicker47
09-25-2014, 05:29 PM
Ok, so I recently was discussing a friend's idea of opening a "Men-Only" Sports Bar, where guys could go and watch sports, drink beer, and generally be men in an environment without any women around. A female friend objected to the idea, calling it "sexist". I raised the question of how is it any different than a place like "Curves", which is a "Women Only" fitness center based on the same concept (no men around). It was actually a very interesting discussion, with both sides bringing up valid points, but in the end, nobody could really decide of if such places are "sexist".

garhkal
09-25-2014, 11:45 PM
That's my sentiments exactly. How is it not sexist for the :Curves: like places to exist, but if a male only place existed it is considered sexist?

Rusty Jones
09-26-2014, 11:06 AM
This is stupid. If you don't like "ladies night," I suggest going somewhere that doesn't have one. Like a sports bar. You ever go to a sports bar to meet women? Get rid of ladies night, and you might as well. I don't understand why someone wouldn't mind spending a little extra money to go into a place that does a little something for the ladies, so that the place isn't one big sausage fest. Hell, if I owned a club, not only would ladies night consist of no cover charge for women, but they'd also get one free drink. Don't like it? Don't come in. Meanwhile, the guys that do will find themselves around more women than they know what to do with


There are many hypocritical double standards in that arena. For example, a woman can say that she will absolutely not date or be with a man that is under 6' tall. No backlash. However, let a man say that he will absolutely not date or be with a woman that is overweight (let's say over size 10) and WHOA!!!!

I agree with this, but I don't sweat it too much. Date who you want; fuck what anyone else has to say.

USN - Retired
09-26-2014, 05:30 PM
"We're not going to give up on destroying the health care system for the American people." ~Paul Ryan
Paul Ryan did make this statement, but if you watch the longer video clip you can tell it was a slip of the tongue. The sentence right before this quote he claims certain policies are destroying the healthcare system and he wants to stop those. Then this sentence just appears to be accidentally missing a few words, something along the lines of "We're not going to give up on [stopping what we believe is] destroying the health care system..."

http://quotefail.com/quote/paul-ryan-were-not-going-give-destroying-health

Rusty is still trying to mislead us. @ Rusty: Why are you trying to mislead us?

sandsjames
09-26-2014, 05:58 PM
Paul Ryan did make this statement, but if you watch the longer video clip you can tell it was a slip of the tongue. The sentence right before this quote he claims certain policies are destroying the healthcare system and he wants to stop those. Then this sentence just appears to be accidentally missing a few words, something along the lines of "We're not going to give up on [stopping what we believe is] destroying the health care system..."

http://quotefail.com/quote/paul-ryan-were-not-going-give-destroying-health

Rusty is still trying to mislead us. @ Rusty: Why are you trying to mislead us?

Dude...really? Get a new game...or go play somewhere else.