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View Full Version : Bible school invites guard, but not allowed to attend?



garhkal
07-26-2014, 08:03 PM
OK. So a bible school in Missouri is doing a week, honoring first responders and military, as "Gods rescue squad". Monday through Wednesday, they honored the police, fire dept and medics, who all went with no hiccups. Thursday though was to be the turn of the Missouri nat guard, and they snubbed them cause by regulations
"“Army participation must not selectively benefit (or appear to benefit) any person, group, or corporation (whether profit or nonprofit); religion, sect, religious or sectarian group, or quasi-religious or ideological movement.”"

So how is it ok, to require military participation in gay pride events, which come imo under the quasi-religious/ideological movement category, but they can't go to a bible school, when they were the one's invited to be honored??

http://news.yahoo.com/national-guard-won-t-allow-own-troops-honored-163411744.html

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/07/25/military-bars-troops-from-attending-vacation-bible-school/

TJMAC77SP
07-26-2014, 09:38 PM
OK. So a bible school in Missouri is doing a week, honoring first responders and military, as "Gods rescue squad". Monday through Wednesday, they honored the police, fire dept and medics, who all went with no hiccups. Thursday though was to be the turn of the Missouri nat guard, and they snubbed them cause by regulations
"“Army participation must not selectively benefit (or appear to benefit) any person, group, or corporation (whether profit or nonprofit); religion, sect, religious or sectarian group, or quasi-religious or ideological movement.”"

So how is it ok, to require military participation in gay pride events, which come imo under the quasi-religious/ideological movement category, but they can't go to a bible school, when they were the one's invited to be honored??

http://news.yahoo.com/national-guard-won-t-allow-own-troops-honored-163411744.html

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/07/25/military-bars-troops-from-attending-vacation-bible-school/

I think this is a case where someone (probably a risk-adverse JAG) misread the reg and/or erred on the side of being overly cautious........I don't see how the NG participation in an event to honor them could in any way 'benefit or appear to benefit' the host organization. If it was a fund raiser or they sold tickets where there would be a profit that might be a different story.

Stalwart
07-26-2014, 10:19 PM
OK. So a bible school in Missouri is doing a week, honoring first responders and military, as "Gods rescue squad". Monday through Wednesday, they honored the police, fire dept and medics, who all went with no hiccups. Thursday though was to be the turn of the Missouri nat guard, and they snubbed them cause by regulations
"“Army participation must not selectively benefit (or appear to benefit) any person, group, or corporation (whether profit or nonprofit); religion, sect, religious or sectarian group, or quasi-religious or ideological movement.”"

So how is it ok, to require military participation in gay pride events, which come imo under the quasi-religious/ideological movement category, but they can't go to a bible school, when they were the one's invited to be honored??

http://news.yahoo.com/national-guard-won-t-allow-own-troops-honored-163411744.html

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2014/07/25/military-bars-troops-from-attending-vacation-bible-school/

First, I do think it was a bad call that the MO National Guard could not participate.



I think this is a case where someone (probably a risk-adverse JAG) misread the reg and/or erred on the side of being overly cautious........

That is probably the issue ... I would wonder if it was vetted through a JAG, and if so at what level?



Now, as a counterpoint ... I don't know of any overt requirement to participate in a gay pride event. The color guard in the DC area that participated in the pride parade had to get permission from DoD. At that point, if you were on the color guard that was your appointed place of duty -- I don't know if a member could have requested a replacement ... not sure ... but there is a difference between DoD saying "you shall send a Color Guard" and the base (more likely the Military District of Washington Commander) requesting approval.

But I would agree that if DoD allowed the color Guard to participate in a Pride Parade, I would wonder if a request to participate in a similar type event of a Christian or conservative event (Easter Parade, Christmas Parade etc.) be approved?

garhkal
07-27-2014, 04:17 AM
At that point, if you were on the color guard that was your appointed place of duty -- I don't know if a member could have requested a replacement ... not sure ... but there is a difference between DoD saying "you shall send a Color Guard" and the base (more likely the Military District of Washington Commander) requesting approval.

But I would agree that if DoD allowed the color Guard to participate in a Pride Parade, I would wonder if a request to participate in a similar type event of a Christian or conservative event (Easter Parade, Christmas Parade etc.) be approved?

I am trying to remember the incident, but i do remember a news report either last month or in may, where a cop was 'put on duty' leading the gay pride parade for his area, and he requested to 'serve' his duty elsewhere, and was reprimanded for it. So maybe Mil troops might feel similar if they ask out of 'duty being assigned to honor guard' a gay pride event?

TJMAC77SP
07-27-2014, 01:02 PM
First, I do think it was a bad call that the MO National Guard could not participate.




That is probably the issue ... I would wonder if it was vetted through a JAG, and if so at what level?



Now, as a counterpoint ... I don't know of any overt requirement to participate in a gay pride event. The color guard in the DC area that participated in the pride parade had to get permission from DoD. At that point, if you were on the color guard that was your appointed place of duty -- I don't know if a member could have requested a replacement ... not sure ... but there is a difference between DoD saying "you shall send a Color Guard" and the base (more likely the Military District of Washington Commander) requesting approval.

But I would agree that if DoD allowed the color Guard to participate in a Pride Parade, I would wonder if a request to participate in a similar type event of a Christian or conservative event (Easter Parade, Christmas Parade etc.) be approved?

I don't know of the situation garhkal referred to. You raise a good point (and question) though.

As to the level. Without knowing anymore than you at the state level would be my guess.

Stalwart
07-27-2014, 09:58 PM
I am trying to remember the incident, but i do remember a news report either last month or in may, where a cop was 'put on duty' leading the gay pride parade for his area, and he requested to 'serve' his duty elsewhere, and was reprimanded for it. So maybe Mil troops might feel similar if they ask out of 'duty being assigned to honor guard' a gay pride event?

I did hear about the police officer you talked about, I think. The incident I heard about was an officer assigned to work as 'traffic control & security' provided by the city at the parade and he refused on moral grounds (this was in Salt Lake City, Utah). IMO in that case he should have been reprimanded since his duty as a public safety officer is to provide protection and perform his duty for everyone regardless of his personal opinion on their lifestyle (what if the firer department refused to put out a fire for a homeowner who was homosexual, black or Hispanic etc.)

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2014/06/07/police-officer-refuses-to-work-at-gay-pride-parade-in-utah/

As a junior Marine, I was on a color guard or two and performed funeral services at Quantico National Cemetery. When I was assigned to the detail, we were briefed on something similar (it dealt with race, since I guess a couple years before one of the Marines did not want to perform a detail for a particular funeral based on race.) We were told once we volunteered, if the command approved the event and if we were part of the detail assigned, it was not our place to refuse; this didn't cover homosexual-themed events but I would imagine at some point the direction will be the same ... but not sure.




I don't know of the situation garhkal referred to. You raise a good point (and question) though.

As to the level. Without knowing anymore than you at the state level would be my guess.

My guess too, that it was a low-level JAG who advised against it, if it had gone further up the chain of command I suspect it would have adjudicated differently -- I have seen National Guard & Reserve units at these types of things before.

garhkal
07-28-2014, 06:15 AM
I did hear about the police officer you talked about, I think. The incident I heard about was an officer assigned to work as 'traffic control & security' provided by the city at the parade and he refused on moral grounds (this was in Salt Lake City, Utah). IMO in that case he should have been reprimanded since his duty as a public safety officer is to provide protection and perform his duty for everyone regardless of his personal opinion on their lifestyle (what if the firer department refused to put out a fire for a homeowner who was homosexual, black or Hispanic etc.)


From the news sources i saw (iirc fox and CNN) both said he didn't refuse to do his job in protecting it, he just requested to be removed as the "HEAD of the parade, to a side job".
So while i could see punishing him if he outright refused to do his job (protect and serve), cause of it, just asking to be taken off the main/head of it (visible to all) to be put on a less visible portion, so he could still honor his commitment to protect and serve, but also honor his belief, and punishing him for that is where i find fault.