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Delphinus
07-23-2014, 12:24 PM
Saw the recent Air Force Times article about the base rankings. Unsurprisingly, Cavalier AFS wasn't included in the rankings. This small station, 90 miles NNW of Grand Forks AFB, is a tiny outpost. While the people there are great, it's very remote, bitterly cold, and military personnel have to traverse the 90 miles to Grand Forks AFB for medical and dental appointments, finance, personnel, TMO, BX, and Commissary. It would have ranked #69, particularly by those unfortunate enough to be stationed there from 2011-2013 had to work for a commander who was the quintessential "toxic leader." She made Captain Hadley from the "Shawshank Redemption" look like Mother Theresa by comparison, leaving several broken enlisted and officer careers in her wake. Guess that's why everyone sentenced there during that era refer to it as Cavatraz. BTW, while everyone on the site suffered, the "toxic leader" was rewarded with school and a subsequent promotion.

E Model
07-23-2014, 04:09 PM
I saw that Cannon AFB was number 10, is there another Cannon AFB I don't know about.

Measure Man
07-23-2014, 04:40 PM
Here is the complete list.

...yeah...Wright-Pat #1, Grand Forks #6, Cannon #10...Travis #63...gimme a break!



Air Force Times' ranking of the best bases in the Air Force:


1. (tied) Scott AFB, Illinois

1. (tied) Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio

3. Joint Base San Antonio-Lackland, Texas

4. Joint Base Elmendorf-Richardson, Alaska

5. Luke AFB, Arizona

6. (tied) MacDill AFB, Florida

6. (tied) Grand Forks AFB, North Dakota

8. (tied) Eglin AFB, Florida

8. (tied) Offut AFB, Nebraska

10. Cannon AFB, New Mexico

11. (tied) Holloman AFB, New Mexico

11. (tied) Schriever AFB, Colorado

11. (tied) McGuire AFB, New Jersey

14. (tied) Patrick AFB, Florida

14. (tied) Nellis AFB, Nevada

14. (tied) Dover AFB, Delaware

17. (tied) Eielson AFB, Alaska

17. (tied) Tinker AFB, Oklahoma

17. (tied) Langley AFB, Virginia

17. (tied) Minot AFB, North Dakota

21. Beale AFB, California

22. (tied) Keesler AFB, Mississippi

22. (tied) Sheppard AFB, Texas

24. U.S. Air Force Academy, Colorado

25. (tied) Davis-Monthan AFB, Arizona

25. (tied) Robins AFB, Georgia

25. (tied) Mountain Home AFB, Idaho

28. (tied) Peterson AFB, Colorado

28. (tied) Cheyenne Mountain Air Force Station

30. (tied) Edwards AFB, California

30. (tied) Randolph AFB, Texas

32. (tied) Vandenburg Vandenberg AFB, California

32. (tied) Dobbins Air Reserve Base, Georgia

34. Ellsworth AFB, South Dakota

35. (tied) Kirtland AFB, New Mexico

35. (tied) Fairchild AFB, Washington

35. (tied) Hill AFB, Utah

35. (tied) Whiteman AFB, Missouri

39. (tied) Little Rock AFB, Arkansas

39. (tied) Hurlburt Field, Florida

39. (tied) Joint Base Lewis-McChord

42. (tied) Altus AFB, Oklahoma

42. (tied) Charleston AFB, South Carolina

42. (tied) Maxwell-Gunter AFB, Alabama

45. (tied) Barksdale AFB, Louisiana

45. (tied) Goodfellow AFB, Texas

47. (tied) Vance AFB, Oklahoma

47. (tied) Joint Base Pearl Harbor-Hickam, Hawaii

49. (tied) FE Warren AFB, Wyoming

49. (tied) Joint Base Andrews, Maryland

49. (tied) Dyess AFB, Texas

52. Pope AFB, North Carolina

53. (tied) Seymour Johnson AFB, North Carolina

53. (tied) Malmstrom AFB, Montana

55. (tied) Tyndall AFB, Florida

55. (tied) Moody AFB, Georgia

55. (tied) Arnold AFB, Tennessee

55. (tied) Shaw AFB, South Carolina

59. (tied) March Air Reserve Base, California

59. (tied) Laughlin AFB, Texas

61. (tied) Buckley AFB, Colorado

61. (tied) Selfridge Air National Guard Base, Michigan

63. Travis AFB, California

64. (tied) Joint Base Anacostia-Bolling, DC

64. (tied) Hanscom AFB, Massachusetts

66. (tied) McConnell AFB, Kansas

66. (tied) Columbus AFB, Mississippi

68. Los Angeles Air Force Base

USN - Retired
07-23-2014, 05:08 PM
Holloman AFB is #11? Really? Interesting. My father was in the USAF and was stationed at Holloman AFB. We moved to Holloman AFB when I was 14. Holloman AFB is the reason why I joined the Navy. Diego Garcia is better than Holloman AFB.

OtisRNeedleman
07-23-2014, 05:59 PM
Lackland is #3 and Randolph is #30? You've got to be kidding. Been to both. Should be the other way around. When I was there 87-92 Randolph was a jewel. Lackland...ho-hum. Goodfellow could be ranked a bit higher. It is a very small base but they have done well with what they had. I have always liked it. And if you could somehow factor in community support for the base Goodfellow would be at or near the top.

PburghNo1
07-23-2014, 06:21 PM
Maybe it's just me, but when over 85% (58 of 68) of anything in a "ranking" are tied the rankings are flawed in the first place.

Top 10 NFL QBs:
1. (tied) Brady
1. (tied) Manning
1. (tied) Brees
1. (tied) Rodgers
5. Luck
6. (tied) Kaepernick
6. (tied) Newton
6. (tied) Wilson
6. (tied) Roethlisberger
10. Cutler

(Not trying to start a QB ranking war--these were the order in which they came to mind)

LogDog
07-23-2014, 06:39 PM
I saw that Cannon AFB was number 10, is there another Cannon AFB I don't know about.
I was surprised to see Cannon at #10 too. I'm sure a lot's changed since I left there in 1991 but back then Cannon was a base that worked well but it was in a poor location and the town, Clovis, only cared about the money the base brought into the community.

Capt Alfredo
07-24-2014, 11:10 AM
The people who did this ranking didn't actually take into account how people actually feel about being stationed at these bases; they went strictly by weighted factors such as commissary, housing prices, greatschools.org rankings, etc. The missing link is how these locations are esteemed or disdained by the rank and file. Thus Cannon comes in a #10, even though you could poll 100 AF members and ask them which would be the base that would cause you to separate or retire rather than go to and it would be right up there with Shaw and some of those northern tier hellholes.

Dickie
07-24-2014, 01:43 PM
I also noticed that none of the operational factors were taken into concideration. For example: high OPSTEMPO or low/nonexistant. How Airmen feel about their supervision/leadership, I think factors greatly in what people think of these bases but I also think that would be hard to quantify unless a larger scoped individual poll was done.

DWWSWWD
07-24-2014, 01:44 PM
The people who did this ranking didn't actually take into account how people actually feel about being stationed at these bases; they went strictly by weighted factors such as commissary, housing prices, greatschools.org rankings, etc. . I don't know about that. Schriever has no club, no commissary or BX. The schools are rated lower than most in the area.

Measure Man
07-24-2014, 03:47 PM
I don't know about that. Schriever has no club, no commissary or BX. The schools are rated lower than most in the area.

They mention housing prices a lot in the article...and that must be what drives some of the locations near the top. Guess what, guys...housing prices are lower in sucky places where no one wants to live!

This factor is especially useless for military members who get paid more BAH is areas with higher cost housing. If anything, if one wants to purchase a home...a higher cost housing area should be a bonus...if your house increases 10% over your 4 year tour, would you rather increase 10% on a $400,000 house or an $80,000 house?

sandsjames
07-24-2014, 04:08 PM
They mention housing prices a lot in the article...and that must be what drives some of the locations near the top. Guess what, guys...housing prices are lower in sucky places where no one wants to live!

This factor is especially useless for military members who get paid more BAH is areas with higher cost housing. If anything, if one wants to purchase a home...a higher cost housing area should be a bonus...if your house increases 10% over your 4 year tour, would you rather increase 10% on a $400,000 house or an $80,000 house?

Great point...it's possible that maybe the results had to do with the housing collapse, where those people who lived in shitty locations only lost a few thousand on their house while those who live in nice areas lost much more.

Measure Man
07-24-2014, 04:15 PM
Great point...it's possible that maybe the results had to do with the housing collapse, where those people who lived in shitty locations only lost a few thousand on their house while those who live in nice areas lost much more.

Doesn't seem they are talking about how much was made or lost, just what the prices are...and assuming low prices equal a higher quality of life.

Since military members get higher BAH in higher housing cost areas...this factor should be somewhat a wash.

That would be like ranking a 1985 Yugo ahead of a 2014 Corvette on the "Awesome Cars" list

sandsjames
07-24-2014, 04:20 PM
Doesn't seem they are talking about how much was made or lost, just what the prices are...and assuming low prices equal a higher quality of life.

Since military members get higher BAH in higher housing cost areas...this factor should be somewhat a wash.

That would be like ranking a 1985 Yugo ahead of a 2014 Corvette on the "Awesome Cars" listYou don't think 3 cylinders makes a car AWESOME???!!!!!!!!

Stalwart
07-24-2014, 05:21 PM
Great point...it's possible that maybe the results had to do with the housing collapse, where those people who lived in shitty locations only lost a few thousand on their house while those who live in nice areas lost much more.

True, they would have had much less of a ding in their investment.

The point about OPTEMPO or the base's mission is pretty good though. What good is a great location, great housing and amenities if you are never there to take advantage of them?

Stalwart
07-24-2014, 05:22 PM
You don't think 3 cylinders makes a car AWESOME???!!!!!!!!

Awesomely fuel efficient ... maybe.

Sergeant eNYgma
07-25-2014, 03:30 PM
I was also surprised at the list.....very surprised. That gah damn Eglin snuck in there to SMH. But even that deserves to be higher than some of these other places. How the troops feel about the bases should have definitely been included.