PDA

View Full Version : Just registered to vote in Ohio.. Strange?



garhkal
07-10-2014, 08:35 PM
OK. So while i was active duty, since i was overseas mostly, i never bothered registering to vote.
Got stationed dirtside in Mississippi while with the Seabees, and registered to vote. Got a nice card in the mail for it.

Now i am living up here in Reynoldsburg, on the SE side of Columbus Oh, i decided its time to change my voter registration up and get a new card.

Apparently ohio doesn't Issue one? They don't even require any proof of ID when submitting paperwork FOR voter registration.
But you damn well better have 1 picture ID (current), a copy of your social security card, and birth certificate, when you get an ohio driver's license.

Does that make sense to anyone? You don't need ID to register to vote, neither to actually vote.
But to get a DL, you need all the rest? WTF over?

sandsjames
07-10-2014, 09:01 PM
OK. So while i was active duty, since i was overseas mostly, i never bothered registering to vote.
Got stationed dirtside in Mississippi while with the Seabees, and registered to vote. Got a nice card in the mail for it.

Now i am living up here in Reynoldsburg, on the SE side of Columbus Oh, i decided its time to change my voter registration up and get a new card.

Apparently ohio doesn't Issue one? They don't even require any proof of ID when submitting paperwork FOR voter registration.
But you damn well better have 1 picture ID (current), a copy of your social security card, and birth certificate, when you get an ohio driver's license.

Does that make sense to anyone? You don't need ID to register to vote, neither to actually vote.
But to get a DL, you need all the rest? WTF over?

LOL...I always love it when we get on this topic.

The answer you will get from many is that we don't need ID cards to vote because there is very little proof that fraud is happening and that any proof is only related to a very small number of people.

What's even better is that for the things you mentioned, the only one you actually HAVE to be a citizen for is the voting, so it would be just silly to require ID to do so.

SomeRandomGuy
07-10-2014, 09:13 PM
I'm in Ohio also. I actually registered to vote while getting my drivers license. While I was getting that done they asked if I would like to register to vote. I think I filled out a small piece of paperwork and was done with it.

My question to people who are against voter ID. How many people are there that do not have any form of ID? There are so many things that require ID. Heck, sometimes you can't even return a purchase to WalMart without an ID. Seriously, if we had to guess how many people are there that do not have some sort of photo ID? It has to be less than 1% of people overall right?

sandsjames
07-10-2014, 09:22 PM
I'm in Ohio also. I actually registered to vote while getting my drivers license. While I was getting that done they asked if I would like to register to vote. I think I filled out a small piece of paperwork and was done with it.

My question to people who are against voter ID. How many people are there that do not have any form of ID? There are so many things that require ID. Heck, sometimes you can't even return a purchase to WalMart without an ID. Seriously, if we had to guess how many people are there that do not have some sort of photo ID? It has to be less than 1% of people overall right?

Of people actually eligible to vote...yes...I'd guess it's less than 1%. And I'm assuming most of those have to cash a welfare check somehow.

Measure Man
07-10-2014, 09:24 PM
I'm in Ohio also. I actually registered to vote while getting my drivers license. While I was getting that done they asked if I would like to register to vote. I think I filled out a small piece of paperwork and was done with it.

My question to people who are against voter ID. How many people are there that do not have any form of ID? There are so many things that require ID. Heck, sometimes you can't even return a purchase to WalMart without an ID. Seriously, if we had to guess how many people are there that do not have some sort of photo ID? It has to be less than 1% of people overall right?

I wouldn't say I'm for or against voter ID. It is an issue I do not understand, because, as you mention, I had no idea there were people that could not get an ID. However, reports are that there are 1000s of people like this....either elderly that no longer have birth certificates or whatever...again, I have no idea. The claim is they can't get a new birth certificate without an ID and can't get an ID without a birth certificate. I don't know...that whole idea boggles my mind that someone can go so long without ID.

The reason this is an issue is because both parties think whoever these people are are going to vote Democrat. So, Democrats want them to vote and Republicans do not want them to vote.

There should be an easier process to be able to obtain ID. It should not be impossible or expensive for anyone. I don't understand the big issue with getting ID...though apparently there is one for some people.

sandsjames
07-10-2014, 09:27 PM
I wouldn't say I'm for or against voter ID. It is an issue I do not understand, because, as you mention, I had no idea there were people that could not get an ID. However, reports are that there are 1000s of people like this....either elderly that no longer have birth certificates or whatever...again, I have no idea. The claim is they can't get a new birth certificate without an ID and can't get an ID without a birth certificate. I don't know...that whole idea boggles my mind that someone can go so long without ID.

The reason this is an issue is because both parties think whoever these people are are going to vote Democrat. So, Democrats want them to vote and Republicans do not want them to vote.

There should be an easier process to be able to obtain ID. It should not be impossible or expensive for anyone. I don't understand the big issue with getting ID...though apparently there is one for some people.

I'd think that the elderly are cashing/depositing SSI/disability checks, etc. Like you, I just don't get it either. Do they not have a bank account? Hell, in order for me to open an account I had to have photo ID, SSN, and a bill showing proof of my address.

Measure Man
07-10-2014, 09:30 PM
I'd think that the elderly are cashing/depositing SSI/disability checks, etc. Like you, I just don't get it either. Do they not have a bank account? Hell, in order for me to open an account I had to have photo ID, SSN, and a bill showing proof of my address.

I don't know...are there some Grandmas in rural Appalachia that never needed ID? I don't know.

OTOH, the founding fathers did not show a photo ID to vote.

Overall, I feel about this issue the way I feel about what is the appropriate amount of medication to give someone with Fibramyalgia...I have no idea. I don't know anything about the problems these people may or may not have. And a bunch of people without those problems shouting about how it is a fake disease given to whiners when nothing is found wrong with them is not that convincing either.

So, while I don't get the issue, I'm not ready to condemn it as fraud either.

efmbman
07-10-2014, 10:28 PM
...............................................

TJMAC77SP
07-10-2014, 10:38 PM
I don't know...are there some Grandmas in rural Appalachia that never needed ID? I don't know.

OTOH, the founding fathers did not show a photo ID to vote.

Overall, I feel about this issue the way I feel about what is the appropriate amount of medication to give someone with Fibramyalgia...I have no idea. I don't know anything about the problems these people may or may not have. And a bunch of people without those problems shouting about how it is a fake disease given to whiners when nothing is found wrong with them is not that convincing either.

So, while I don't get the issue, I'm not ready to condemn it as fraud either.

The issue isn't that hard to understand. I think you do so quite clearly.

If local churches (mostly Baptist) start picking up people to get photos id's the problem will most likely disappear.

There is a distinct possibility that one party wants to put a road block in the way of some voters.

The equal possibility is that the other party knows how low voter turn out is among those certain voters and doesn't want anything else in the way (of course the turn out has been historically high the last two national elections). That is the elephant sitting on the coffee table. You will hardly hear one party in essence calling some of their voters lazy, lackadaisical, whatever the case.

As to the "1000s of people" who can't get an id. Much like the 84 year old black man in SC profiled before the 2012 election who stated he didn't have a birth certificate and didn't know how to go about getting one. The reporter was very sympathetic. But.....................

You must have a photo id to open a bank account.

FDIC Law, Regulations (8000 PART 1020 Subpart F § 1020.220) (A) Verification through documents. For a bank relying on documents, the CIP (Customer Identification Program) must contain procedures that set forth the documents that the bank will use. These documents may include:

(1) For an individual, unexpired government-issued identification evidencing nationality or residence and bearing a photograph or similar safeguard, such as a driver's license or passport; and


Federal law requires all recipients of benefits from the Social Security Administration must use Direct Deposit (receive their payments electronically).

How are all these elderly people who ‘can’t’ get an id getting their social security benefits?

The reporter didn’t ask these questions.

OTOH.........if only there had been such a thing as photo id's in 1789. Of course I suppose the poll workers knew every voter personally so..............

One final note regarding whether or not voter fraud is a problem or not. The history of voting in the US aside. The estimated percentage of people who will murder someone in the US is approximately 0.00735 percent. Hardly seems worth pursuing.

Measure Man
07-10-2014, 11:15 PM
The issue isn't that hard to understand. I think you do so quite clearly.

If local churches (mostly Baptist) start picking up people to get photos id's the problem will most likely disappear.

Seems logical to me...but I don't understand the isssue in getting ID. Again, reading this I'm hearing..."these people with so called Fibromyalgia just need to get some exercise"...


There is a distinct possibility that one party wants to put a road block in the way of some voters.

The equal possibility is that the other party knows how low voter turn out is among those certain voters and doesn't want anything else in the way (of course the turn out has been historically high the last two national elections). That is the elephant sitting on the coffee table. You will hardly hear one party in essence calling some of their voters lazy, lackadaisical, whatever the case.

Well, I think the accusation from the Republicans is that the Democrats want ineligible people to vote. The accusation from the Democrats is that Republicans are trying to prevent eligible people from voting.


As to the "1000s of people" who can't get an id. Much like the 84 year old black man in SC profiled before the 2012 election who stated he didn't have a birth certificate and didn't know how to go about getting one. The reporter was very sympathetic. But.....................

You must have a photo id to open a bank account.

FDIC Law, Regulations (8000 PART 1020 Subpart F § 1020.220) (A) Verification through documents. For a bank relying on documents, the CIP (Customer Identification Program) must contain procedures that set forth the documents that the bank will use. These documents may include:

(1) For an individual, unexpired government-issued identification evidencing nationality or residence and bearing a photograph or similar safeguard, such as a driver's license or passport; and


Federal law requires all recipients of benefits from the Social Security Administration must use Direct Deposit (receive their payments electronically).

How are all these elderly people who ‘can’t’ get an id getting their social security benefits?

The reporter didn’t ask these questions.

I understand all your points...as I mentioned, the idea that it is difficult to get an ID for some people is completely alien to me. Your questions seem like logical ones a reporter should ask so we could all understand what's going on. I can't believe it is that difficult to get an ID...heck have them swear in front of judge or something....it can't just be that it is impossible to get ID if you lose your birth certificate. That's what my brain says.

That doesn't mean I assume it must be fraud. It could be that I don't know everything about everyone's situation and the problems associated with it. If I can't understand the problem it's hard for me to say I know the solution. You seem convinced that there is no problem in getting IDs...I tend to agree, I'm just less sure.


OTOH.........if only there had been such a thing as photo id's in 1789. Of course I suppose the poll workers knew every voter personally so..............

Yeah...I know...I just enjoy throwing that one out there.


One final note regarding whether or not voter fraud is a problem or not. The history of voting in the US aside. The estimated percentage of people who will murder someone in the US is approximately 0.00735 percent. Hardly seems worth pursuing.

I never suggested voter fraud did not exist or that is was nothing worth pursuing...I'm just not convinced that those against voter ID laws necessarily have an intent to commit voter fraud.

TJMAC77SP
07-10-2014, 11:25 PM
Seems logical to me...but I don't understand the isssue in getting ID. Again, reading this I'm hearing..."these people with so called Fibromyalgia just need to get some exercise"...



Well, I think the accusation from the Republicans is that the Democrats want ineligible people to vote. The accusation from the Democrats is that Republicans are trying to prevent eligible people from voting.



I understand all your points...as I mentioned, the idea that it is difficult to get an ID for some people is completely alien to me. Your questions seem like logical ones a reporter should ask so we could all understand what's going on. I can't believe it is that difficult to get an ID...heck have them swear in front of judge or something....it can't just be that it is impossible to get ID if you lose your birth certificate. That's what my brain says.

That doesn't mean I assume it must be fraud. It could be that I don't know everything about everyone's situation and the problems associated with it. If I can't understand the problem it's hard for me to say I know the solution. You seem convinced that there is no problem in getting IDs...I tend to agree, I'm just less sure.



Yeah...I know...I just enjoy throwing that one out there.



I never suggested voter fraud did not exist or that is was nothing worth pursuing...I'm just not convinced that those against voter ID laws necessarily have an intent to commit voter fraud.

Oh I don't think that is the Dems objection or intent at all. Both parties have unspoken goals but in this case (IMO) the GOP has outmaneuvered the Dems.

Measure Man
07-11-2014, 12:12 AM
Oh I don't think that is the Dems objection or intent at all. Both parties have unspoken goals but in this case (IMO) the GOP has outmaneuvered the Dems.

What reason besides fraud prevention is there be for having voter ID laws?

sandsjames
07-11-2014, 12:52 AM
What reason besides fraud prevention is there be for having voter ID laws?


That should be it...

efmbman
07-11-2014, 01:18 AM
It is interesting that many Democrats are strongly opposed to the concept of a voter ID on the premise that rights are being infringed upon. However, they are equally in favor of more stringent gun laws, registration, screening and permits which is infringing on rights. The US Constitution never mentioned who specifically has the right to vote until several amendments were ratified (14th, 15th, 19th, 23rd, 24th, etc). The US Constitution does cover who has the right to bear arms in the 2nd Amendment, which was adopted at the time of the US Constitution (so effectively it is a part of the original document).

How can the same political party be so contradictory on two basic civil rights? If they are so concerned about one right (the right to vote), how can they be opposed to another (the right to bear arms)?

Of course, the same argument can be made toward the actions / beliefs of many Republicans by reversing the "in favor" and the "opposed to".

garhkal
07-11-2014, 07:25 AM
I'm in Ohio also. I actually registered to vote while getting my drivers license. While I was getting that done they asked if I would like to register to vote. I think I filled out a small piece of paperwork and was done with it.

My question to people who are against voter ID. How many people are there that do not have any form of ID? There are so many things that require ID. Heck, sometimes you can't even return a purchase to WalMart without an ID. Seriously, if we had to guess how many people are there that do not have some sort of photo ID? It has to be less than 1% of people overall right?

Which is the argument many of those who support voter ID laws are using, but they still get called 'against the poor etc'.. But since most of those who this hits, get welfare checks, and usually go into govt buildings FOR stuff like that, how is it they don't already HAVE an ID?


I don't know...that whole idea boggles my mind that someone can go so long without ID.


Exactly..
Get bank account - need id
Go visit the doctors office - often need id
Get one of those bus passes (elderly) - need id
Drive - need id
And dozens of other things - NEED ID. So how is it that people are saying there are 1000s without one is beyond me.


I'd think that the elderly are cashing/depositing SSI/disability checks, etc. Like you, I just don't get it either. Do they not have a bank account? Hell, in order for me to open an account I had to have photo ID, SSN, and a bill showing proof of my address.


Minus needing the SSN, i had to have the same just to get a damn Library card.


Well, I think the accusation from the Republicans is that the Democrats want ineligible people to vote. The accusation from the Democrats is that Republicans are trying to prevent eligible people from voting.

You pretty much hit it on the nail.
Democrats don't want voter ids, cause they seem to benefit more from having 'ineligible' voters. Repulicans want it to prevent that, but every time they call for it, they get labeled as wanting to go back to Jim crow!..


What reason besides fraud prevention is there be for having voter ID laws?

IMO none. Proving you are eligible to vote is all imo that is needed.

TJMAC77SP
07-11-2014, 02:21 PM
What reason besides fraud prevention is there be for having voter ID laws?

I was agreeing with your statement..."I'm just not convinced that those against voter ID laws necessarily have an intent to commit voter fraud."

Mcjohn1118
07-12-2014, 02:48 PM
Garhkal, I recently switched to Ohio as well. Did you get the voter ID requirements document from the BMV? Yes, it's a sad day; I am no longer a New York resident after being one for 43 years. Anyway, I got my OH license on July 1 and registered to vote. This was in Huber Heights and when the lady handed me my license with my payment receipt, she attached a notification document which reads:
Voter Identification Requirements (R.C. 3503.19)
Voters must bring identification to the polls to verify identity. Identification may include a current and valid photo identification, a military identification that shows the voter's name and current address, or a copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck or other government document, other than a notice of an election or voter registration notification sent by the board of elections, that shows the voter's name and current address. Voters who do not provide one of these documents will still be able to vote by providing the last four digits of the voter's social security number and by casting a provisional ballot. Voters who don not have any of the above fords of identification, including a social security number will still be able to vote by signing an affirmation swearing to the voter's identity under penalty of election falsification and by casting a provisional ballot. Whoever commits election falsification is guilty of a felony of the fifth degree.

The bottom line: You don't need anything to vote in Ohio as long as you sign an affirmation swearing who you are and the ballot is provisional. I didn't look up what that is.

SomeRandomGuy
07-12-2014, 05:39 PM
Garhkal, I recently switched to Ohio as well. Did you get the voter ID requirements document from the BMV? Yes, it's a sad day; I am no longer a New York resident after being one for 43 years. Anyway, I got my OH license on July 1 and registered to vote. This was in Huber Heights and when the lady handed me my license with my payment receipt, she attached a notification document which reads:
Voter Identification Requirements (R.C. 3503.19)
Voters must bring identification to the polls to verify identity. Identification may include a current and valid photo identification, a military identification that shows the voter's name and current address, or a copy of a current utility bill, bank statement, government check, paycheck or other government document, other than a notice of an election or voter registration notification sent by the board of elections, that shows the voter's name and current address. Voters who do not provide one of these documents will still be able to vote by providing the last four digits of the voter's social security number and by casting a provisional ballot. Voters who don not have any of the above fords of identification, including a social security number will still be able to vote by signing an affirmation swearing to the voter's identity under penalty of election falsification and by casting a provisional ballot. Whoever commits election falsification is guilty of a felony of the fifth degree.

The bottom line: You don't need anything to vote in Ohio as long as you sign an affirmation swearing who you are and the ballot is provisional. I didn't look up what that is.

Provisional ballots are not normally counted right away unless they need to be. In 2012 the state of Ohio was called for Obama before the provisional ballots were ever counted. The reason for this was because Obama had a large enough lead that the provisional ballots weren't enough for him to lose. I believe they are eventually counted and verified just not right away.

There are a wide variety of reasons why people file provisional ballots though. If you request to vote early by mail but change your mind your ballot becomes provisional. If you show up to the wrong polling location you can vote provisional. Heck, if you feel like it you can go to 5 different polling locations and cast provisional ballots. They just won't get counted but you can still do it.

garhkal
07-12-2014, 08:13 PM
Garhkal, I recently switched to Ohio as well. Did you get the voter ID requirements document from the BMV?

Nope all i got was a voter registration form to fill out, and handed back in. Got told i will receive a post card in the mail with instructions on where/when i vote. NO Id was asked for or mentioned about.