PDA

View Full Version : Single parents: Mom VS Dad



WILDJOKER5
06-19-2014, 06:54 PM
So, I was having a good discussion with a highly educated (doctorate in curriculum writting for schools) conservative woman. We are discussing the negatives and positives of single parents and what the negative effects are on kids who dont see one parent as much as the other. Based on her own experience, her son was emotionally scared when her ex legally took the kid from her at about 2-3 yo. Long story short, they split custody right down the middle now. She highly encourages me to give my ex more time with the kids, currently split 75/25 in my favor.

Now, other than the fact that I didnt chose the divorce, and she went off with someone else, I got custody. I have been researching the negative effects on single parent households to try and find studies of the serious negative effects on kids living with their dads most of the time. There are plenty of studies out there of general single parents, and kids growing up fatherless. One stat was that kids without a father make up 75% of all dropouts. The only thing I have been able to see on the negative effects of kids without, or less time with their mother is something that said kids who were predisposed to mental issues already would be effected mentally. But the thing about this study was that it if the child was devoid of any parental affection and attention, they would be harmed.

Another stat was that kids without fathers are more apt to commit suicide, or end up in jail.

The most current break down ratio of single fathers to mothers is 18/82% respectively. So, is there any factual evidence that in a mutual break up of a marriage, why is there more weight given to the mothers to get custody over a man?

WILDJOKER5
06-19-2014, 07:07 PM
I also couldnt find if they meant fatherless as in with no father in the picture at all or just with the mother most of the time.

garhkal
06-19-2014, 09:18 PM
Are there any studies out there where the main focus is single father parents?

WILDJOKER5
06-20-2014, 04:33 PM
Are there any studies out there where the main focus is single father parents?

Not that I saw really? And I dont know if the studies distinguish between the mother or father getting remarried and how that impacts the children.

raider8169
06-20-2014, 06:08 PM
The problem is that most states award custody to the female just because she is the "mom". I wouldnt count any studies to be all that reliable when there are so many factors going into a single parent household. In my case I am the more caring parent however that means little to the courts. They only care about who the mom is and that is who got custody. In the case with my kids (one of which is a special needs child) the results would be different seeing as they are not going to the parent who could take better care of them. That said, I think it would be hard to have a study based on these sort of things because there is just so much involved with it. I do not see how you could have to identical parents raise a kid the same way with the only difference being that one is a male and one is a female. The environment is going play a huge part in how the kids turn out. Just my thoughts at least.

garhkal
06-20-2014, 08:18 PM
Exactly. Single mom a in town Z raising 2 kids, is going to have a different impact on the development of those kids, than single mom B raising 2 kids as well, but in town I. In addition the economic status of the parent can also make a difference, as well as family base in the are (aunts/uncles/grand parents etc) that can help out.

WILDJOKER5
06-21-2014, 06:13 PM
The problem is that most states award custody to the female just because she is the "mom". I wouldnt count any studies to be all that reliable when there are so many factors going into a single parent household. In my case I am the more caring parent however that means little to the courts. They only care about who the mom is and that is who got custody. In the case with my kids (one of which is a special needs child) the results would be different seeing as they are not going to the parent who could take better care of them. That said, I think it would be hard to have a study based on these sort of things because there is just so much involved with it. I do not see how you could have to identical parents raise a kid the same way with the only difference being that one is a male and one is a female. The environment is going play a huge part in how the kids turn out. Just my thoughts at least.

You definitely make great points. Biggest detriment to kids was always that the parents got divorced in the first place. At least where I am, at least they take into consideration who broke the marriage in deciding who would get the kid(s).

USN - Retired
06-21-2014, 11:28 PM
Here's an interesting story...

Judge Orders Deployed US Sailor To Attend Custody Hearing Or Lose Daughter, Face Arrest (http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2014/06/20/judge-orders-deployed-us-sailor-to-attend-custody-hearing-or-lose-daughter-face-contempt/)

I wonder whether that story will appear in the military times magazine?

Here's an article with a video...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/sailor-serving-overseas-ordered-custody-fight/story?id=24208298

WILDJOKER5
06-21-2014, 11:40 PM
Here's an interesting story...

Judge Orders Deployed US Sailor To Attend Custody Hearing Or Lose Daughter, Face Arrest (http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2014/06/20/judge-orders-deployed-us-sailor-to-attend-custody-hearing-or-lose-daughter-face-contempt/)

I wonder whether that story will appear in the military times magazine?

How can that be if he was never served with paperwork of the subpoena? Sadly, this is craziness. The father is the legal custodian of the daughter, and when he is gone, he has every legal right to appoint a care giver for the child who does not have to be the biological mother. The only thing the caregiver must do is follow the rules of the parenting plan and give the biological mother time with the kids as stated. My kids would stay with my parents in my house IF I was ever to deploy again. To force the kids back with their biological mother gives the biological mother grounds to fight for majority custody at a later date as long as she didn't screw up again. I am thankful I live in a more forward thinking state that gives equal consideration to both father and mother as who would be a better parental unit for primary custody of the kids. You know, that whole "women are equal to men" thing...except in the cases that men have commonly been looked less upon in other facets of life like this.

garhkal
06-22-2014, 05:45 AM
Here's an interesting story...

Judge Orders Deployed US Sailor To Attend Custody Hearing Or Lose Daughter, Face Arrest (http://seattle.cbslocal.com/2014/06/20/judge-orders-deployed-us-sailor-to-attend-custody-hearing-or-lose-daughter-face-contempt/)

I wonder whether that story will appear in the military times magazine?

Here's an article with a video...

http://abcnews.go.com/US/sailor-serving-overseas-ordered-custody-fight/story?id=24208298

How can that be if he was never served with paperwork of the subpoena? Sadly, this is craziness. The father is the legal custodian of the daughter, and when he is gone, he has every legal right to appoint a care giver for the child who does not have to be the biological mother. The only thing the caregiver must do is follow the rules of the parenting plan and give the biological mother time with the kids as stated. My kids would stay with my parents in my house IF I was ever to deploy again. To force the kids back with their biological mother gives the biological mother grounds to fight for majority custody at a later date as long as she didn't screw up again. I am thankful I live in a more forward thinking state that gives equal consideration to both father and mother as who would be a better parental unit for primary custody of the kids. You know, that whole "women are equal to men" thing...except in the cases that men have commonly been looked less upon in other facets of life like this.

That judge needs to go visit the men with the white coats, as he must be insane!

Measure Man
06-23-2014, 04:24 PM
How can that be if he was never served with paperwork of the subpoena?

How do you know he was never served? Also, there are options to serving someone in person...he could be served through his attorney, or he could be served by publication in a newspaper.


Sadly, this is craziness. The father is the legal custodian of the daughter, and when he is gone, he has every legal right to appoint a care giver for the child who does not have to be the biological mother.

There's not a lot of info here as to why the mother had the child taken by Child Services, etc. I tend to agree with the judge, in general, that the "other parent" is better than the "step parent"...not always, of course.


The only thing the caregiver must do is follow the rules of the parenting plan and give the biological mother time with the kids as stated. My kids would stay with my parents in my house IF I was ever to deploy again. To force the kids back with their biological mother gives the biological mother grounds to fight for majority custody at a later date as long as she didn't screw up again.

Yeah, really depends on what kind of mother the parent is and why the kids were taken from her. That is probably a bad sign, to be sure.

However, the important thing to remember is that this should NOT be about the Father's rights or the Mother's rights, but about what is best for the child.


I am thankful I live in a more forward thinking state that gives equal consideration to both father and mother as who would be a better parental unit for primary custody of the kids. You know, that whole "women are equal to men" thing...except in the cases that men have commonly been looked less upon in other facets of life like this.

Yeah...again, it should remain about the child. Also, speaking generally, I think primary custody with a parent who deploys for a year is not the preferred care arrangement, if all other things are equal.

There seems to be a big stink that going overseas to serve one's country should not count negatively towards child custody. I disagree, I don't think that's the best situation for the kids. I undersstand how and why it happens...I've even seen mil-mil couples both go to a tour in Korea and leave their children with close friends...doesn't seem like a great idea to me, maybe if the kids were older teens, okay...but 10 years olds? I don't think so.

CYBERFX1024
06-23-2014, 06:00 PM
I agree with Measure Man. There is no specific reason why the young girl was taken from the mother in the first place.
But I have also read on the local news site for this story that it is not a custody hearing but a visitation hearing. Also the father has not been responsive at all about letting the mother see the daughter. Honestly I would feel the same way if my x-wife wants to see my children. Note: My kids were not taken away from my x but they were all (kids and x) forced to move in with her father due to squalid conditions in which she kept house. Also their were numerous drug violations going on with her and her bf.

Needless to say I got de facto custody from the court because she was put back in jail and then prison for drugs, assault, and assault with a deadly weapon. So I completely understand where the father is coming from in that regard.

WILDJOKER5
06-23-2014, 10:56 PM
How do you know he was never served? Also, there are options to serving someone in person...he could be served through his attorney, or he could be served by publication in a newspaper.True. It was a presumption that he wasn't served since he had been on the ship. Other than the attorney, I don't see how the news paper cuts it though.


There's not a lot of info here as to why the mother had the child taken by Child Services, etc. I tend to agree with the judge, in general, that the "other parent" is better than the "step parent"...not always, of course.Being taken from custody is a big negative. I can agree there may be an over reaction of why the kid was taken, like maybe she packed school lunch not approved by Queen Obama.


Yeah, really depends on what kind of mother the parent is and why the kids were taken from her. That is probably a bad sign, to be sure.

However, the important thing to remember is that this should NOT be about the Father's rights or the Mother's rights, but about what is best for the child. Usually what the parent is and looking at them equally is in the best interest of the child.



Yeah...again, it should remain about the child. Also, speaking generally, I think primary custody with a parent who deploys for a year is not the preferred care arrangement, if all other things are equal.True. But the step parent with whom the child has been living with means they are in a routine.


There seems to be a big stink that going overseas to serve one's country should not count negatively towards child custody. I disagree, I don't think that's the best situation for the kids. I undersstand how and why it happens...I've even seen mil-mil couples both go to a tour in Korea and leave their children with close friends...doesn't seem like a great idea to me, maybe if the kids were older teens, okay...but 10 years olds? I don't think so.Mil to mil is tough. "Best" option? They better have some damn good friends who can parent extremely well.


I agree with Measure Man. There is no specific reason why the young girl was taken from the mother in the first place.
But I have also read on the local news site for this story that it is not a custody hearing but a visitation hearing. Also the father has not been responsive at all about letting the mother see the daughter. Honestly I would feel the same way if my x-wife wants to see my children. Note: My kids were not taken away from my x but they were all (kids and x) forced to move in with her father due to squalid conditions in which she kept house. Also their were numerous drug violations going on with her and her bf.

Needless to say I got de facto custody from the court because she was put back in jail and then prison for drugs, assault, and assault with a deadly weapon. So I completely understand where the father is coming from in that regard.Thanks for expanding. IF this was about visitation rights that the mother was fighting for, then I would hope the step mom had power of attorney to step in on his behalf on this.

Measure Man
06-24-2014, 02:41 PM
True. It was a presumption that he wasn't served since he had been on the ship. Other than the attorney, I don't see how the news paper cuts it though.

I was served through publication in a California newspaper while I was stationed in Germany. Basically, they are allowed to do it if they don't know how to get a hold of you. I'm sure there are some rules and such to it, just saying it can be done.


Being taken from custody is a big negative. I can agree there may be an over reaction of why the kid was taken, like maybe she packed school lunch not approved by Queen Obama.

yes, everything must be a least partially Obama's fault.


Usually what the parent is and looking at them equally is in the best interest of the child.

No argument there. But, I do think they deployability of one parent should be something to consider.


True. But the step parent with whom the child has been living with means they are in a routine.

A routing sure...just don't think a step-parent is the same as a parent...in normal situations.


Mil to mil is tough. "Best" option? They better have some damn good friends who can parent extremely well.

I don't know what the "Best" option is there...one parent separating?


Thanks for expanding. IF this was about visitation rights that the mother was fighting for, then I would hope the step mom had power of attorney to step in on his behalf on this.

The trial has been postponed...turns out the judge did not know the military member was deployed.

USN - Retired
06-24-2014, 04:52 PM
There seems to be a big stink that going overseas to serve one's country should not count negatively towards child custody. I disagree, I don't think that's the best situation for the kids. I undersstand how and why it happens...I've even seen mil-mil couples both go to a tour in Korea and leave their children with close friends...doesn't seem like a great idea to me, maybe if the kids were older teens, okay...but 10 years olds? I don't think so.

Let's build upon that thought of yours...

Perhaps people in the military shouldn't be parents at all. I have no children, and I never wanted to have children, but I have often wondered why someone who REALLY wants to be a "parent" would stay in the military for a career, especially if that person is in a career field which keeps him (or her) away from home for long periods of time. Do most men just want to spawn some offspring, but those men then have little or no interest in all that hands on parenting crap? Military fathers say that they "love" their children so much , but if they really "love" their children as much as they say, then why would they stay in a career that would keep them away from their children for weeks or months at a time? Furthermore, is it really wise for a father, especially a father of young children, to stay in a high risk career such as the military?

It seems to me that a man who is a really bad choice to receive custody of his own children is probably also a man who shouldn't have become a parent in the first place.

And yes, I know that most people disagree with me.

"I'm out at sea three weeks out of every month, and when I'm back at port I don't have time for this daddy stuff 'cause that's not who I am." ~ Byron Mayo in the film An Officer and a Gentleman

Measure Man
06-24-2014, 05:46 PM
Let's build upon that thought of yours...

Perhaps people in the military shouldn't be parents at all. I have no children, and I never wanted to have children, but I have often wondered why someone who REALLY wants to be a "parent" would stay in the military for a career, especially if that person is in a career field which keeps him (or her) away from home for long periods of time. Do most men just want to spawn some offspring, but those men then have little or no interest in all that hands on parenting crap? Military fathers say that they "love" their children so much , but if they really "love" their children as much as they say, then why would they stay in a career that would keep them away from their children for weeks or months at a time? Furthermore, is it really wise for a father, especially a father of young children, to stay in a high risk career such as the military?

I think that is a valid point. A military career is not for everyone...sometimes by ability/aptitude...sometimes by choice...sometimes by unforseen consequence. There sometimes seems to be a prevailing opinion that if something "is not the fault of the member"...that they should not have to lose either career over it and that they should be able to continue service and we have to have all of these programs to "meet the needs of..." (insert need) whether that be single parents, EFMP, mil-mil, etc.

I agree with you...sometimes life circumstances dictate that a military career isn't a good choice for you. Sometimes one chooses those cirumstances, but still wants to hang on to the career.


It seems to me that a man who is a really bad choice to receive custody of his own children is probably also a man who shouldn't have become a parent in the first place.

Well, that's a thought...but usually once we are dealing with custody issues, the hindsight of not having them in the first place is a bit late.

I do think all military parents should take a good hard look at what a parent deploying for a year does to their children...perhaps moreso if they are in the combat arms and deploying to a combat zone...times that with a factor if that is a single parent...or a mil-mil that will both be gone, I don't know how people do that.

I am being a bit hypocritical in some of this, as I've done my fair share of time away from growing children...both as a result of a divorce and assignments.


And yes, I know that most people disagree with me.

That never stopped you before! But, seriously, I can't say that I'm one of them.


"I'm out at sea three weeks out of every month, and when I'm back at port I don't have time for this daddy stuff 'cause that's not who I am." ~ Byron Mayo in the film An Officer and a Gentleman

WILDJOKER5
06-24-2014, 07:22 PM
I was served through publication in a California newspaper while I was stationed in Germany. Basically, they are allowed to do it if they don't know how to get a hold of you. I'm sure there are some rules and such to it, just saying it can be done.I know it can be done.


yes, everything must be a least partially Obama's fault.Oh come on, you had to know that was a joke. :D


No argument there. But, I do think they deployability of one parent should be something to consider.I agree. Since I dont deploy, I had a great chance of keeping my kids.


A routing sure...just don't think a step-parent is the same as a parent...in normal situations.I think a parent who was awarded custody is also awarded the sense in the eyes of the court to have the childs best interest in mind. I sure wont remarry to anyone that I wouldnt trust 100% with my chiidrens lives.


I don't know what the "Best" option is there...one parent separating? To each their own on that one.


The trial has been postponed...turns out the judge did not know the military member was deployed.
Good to know.

WILDJOKER5
06-24-2014, 07:27 PM
Let's build upon that thought of yours...

Perhaps people in the military shouldn't be parents at all. I have no children, and I never wanted to have children, but I have often wondered why someone who REALLY wants to be a "parent" would stay in the military for a career, especially if that person is in a career field which keeps him (or her) away from home for long periods of time. Do most men just want to spawn some offspring, but those men then have little or no interest in all that hands on parenting crap? Military fathers say that they "love" their children so much , but if they really "love" their children as much as they say, then why would they stay in a career that would keep them away from their children for weeks or months at a time? Furthermore, is it really wise for a father, especially a father of young children, to stay in a high risk career such as the military?

It seems to me that a man who is a really bad choice to receive custody of his own children is probably also a man who shouldn't have become a parent in the first place.

And yes, I know that most people disagree with me.

"I'm out at sea three weeks out of every month, and when I'm back at port I don't have time for this daddy stuff 'cause that's not who I am." ~ Byron Mayo in the film An Officer and a Gentleman

I had a chance to cross train into in flight refueling, but since my ex was pregnant, I decided to drop the application. Its about sacrifices for your children. I am over 10 years, but I wont reenlist because I dont want any chance of being deployed or sent to Korea and losing custody of my kids to a woman that has close to min wage job and cant manage finances and depends on a guy to support her who she ends up leaving when the well runs dry. That and I can make more on the outside.

garhkal
06-24-2014, 07:31 PM
Let's build upon that thought of yours...

..snip..

"I'm out at sea three weeks out of every month, and when I'm back at port I don't have time for this daddy stuff 'cause that's not who I am." ~ Byron Mayo in the film An Officer and a Gentleman

May i ask why you are only harping on military men?

Measure Man
06-24-2014, 07:35 PM
I know it can be done.

Oh come on, you had to know that was a joke. :D

Yes...I should have used an emoticon :chairfall:


I agree. Since I dont deploy, I had a great chance of keeping my kids.

That's awesome.


I think a parent who was awarded custody is also awarded the sense in the eyes of the court to have the childs best interest in mind. I sure wont remarry to anyone that I wouldnt trust 100% with my chiidrens lives.

To each their own on that one.

Yes...every situation is unique, for sure. I just don't like to hear the "it's not fair to take the child while or because the military member deploys, serving the country, etc."...again, it's not about fair, it's about best for the child.


Good to know.

Yeah...once again, the initial outrage-inducing headline turns out to be not the whole truth.

sandsjames
06-24-2014, 07:42 PM
Yes...every situation is unique, for sure. I just don't like to hear the "it's not fair to take the child while or because the military member deploys, serving the country, etc."...again, it's not about fair, it's about best for the child.



Yeah...once again, the initial outrage-inducing headline turns out to be not the whole truth.

Since we seem to be focusing on men, I'll ask this question. Is it any more responsible (for lack of better word) of the mother to get pregnant and have the child knowing the father will be deploying than it is for the father to get the mother pregnant knowing he's deploying?

Hell, if that's the case we can start arguing about whether it's better to take the kids away from both parents if they both have jobs and have their children raised in daycares.

Measure Man
06-24-2014, 07:57 PM
Since we seem to be focusing on men, I'll ask this question. Is it any more responsible (for lack of better word) of the mother to get pregnant and have the child knowing the father will be deploying than it is for the father to get the mother pregnant knowing he's deploying?

No, it's the same.


Hell, if that's the case we can start arguing about whether it's better to take the kids away from both parents if they both have jobs and have their children raised in daycares.

We can talk about it if you'd like.

Although, even in the above scenarios, I'm not talking about taking the kids away from both parents, etc. First, I was talking about if all other things being relatively equal...I think the deployment possibilities of one parent should be considered in making a custody decision. Ideally, if the parents would do that themselves...but to often the parents are worried about "not fair to me" rather that "best interest of the child"

Secondly, I was talking, in particular, about mil-mil couples with children and whether or not one of those parents should separate from the mil.

But surely, that question can be extended to any military member with children. Again, I'm talking about the parents making the decision, not "taking away the kids." I think there needs to be a whole lot more going on than that to take kids away from their parents.

USN - Retired
06-24-2014, 08:06 PM
May i ask why you are only harping on military men?

I might get banned if I say anything negative about women, even if the negative comment about women is totally valid. I was once severely berated by the moderators/censors and then banned from the forum for a week because I questioned the tradition in our culture of giving women an engagement ring.

Mjölnir
06-24-2014, 10:23 PM
I might get banned if I say anything negative about women, even if the negative comment about women is totally valid.

I would offer that it isn't necessarily what you say, but how you say it.

garhkal
06-25-2014, 07:12 AM
I might get banned if I say anything negative about women, even if the negative comment about women is totally valid. I was once severely berated by the moderators/censors and then banned from the forum for a week because I questioned the tradition in our culture of giving women an engagement ring.

Wow. I know some sites are a little harsh with how moderation is, but didn't thing here was that bad.

sandsjames
06-25-2014, 10:21 AM
I might get banned if I say anything negative about women, even if the negative comment about women is totally valid. I was once severely berated by the moderators/censors and then banned from the forum for a week because I questioned the tradition in our culture of giving women an engagement ring.

What is really surprising is that you were allowed to mention your banning and give the reason for it while complaining about it and it didn't draw another ban. I've seen people banned for simply talking about someone else's ban.

garhkal
06-25-2014, 07:51 PM
What is really surprising is that you were allowed to mention your banning and give the reason for it while complaining about it and it didn't draw another ban. I've seen people banned for simply talking about someone else's ban.

I've seen that before. On one of my ADND gaming sites, we had 2 people banned for some major flame wars recently, but cause others were making comments on their bans, THEY too got a temp banning.