PDA

View Full Version : Show your "Pride" 5K. PT and Gay pride! It just doesn't get any more AF than this



SomeRandomGuy
06-10-2014, 06:26 PM
Check it out guys. Wright-Patterson is hosting a show your pride 5k. Not only is this a chance to show off your fitness prowess but you can also do it will supporting the AF favorite new cause LGBT pride. It doesn't get any better than that right? You can also do it during duty hours. That is pretty much the trifecta right there.


**picture of event invitation coming soon**

sandsjames
06-10-2014, 06:38 PM
Check it out guys. Wright-Patterson is hosting a show your pride 5k. Not only is this a chance to show off your fitness prowess but you can also do it will supporting the AF favorite new cause LGBT pride. It doesn't get any better than that right? You can also do it during duty hours. That is pretty much the trifecta right there.


**picture of event invitation coming soon**

Time to pull out my old style smedium pt gear. Might even tie a knot in the front of my shirt.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-10-2014, 06:47 PM
Time to pull out my old style smedium pt gear. Might even tie a knot in the front of my shirt.

Aren't you a fatty?

The gay guys don't want to see that fat belly flopping around during the run.

Well, most don't, there might be one or two that are into chubby huggy bears, but I say play it conservative.

WILDJOKER5
06-10-2014, 06:48 PM
Check it out guys. Wright-Patterson is hosting a show your pride 5k. Not only is this a chance to show off your fitness prowess but you can also do it will supporting the AF favorite new cause LGBT pride. It doesn't get any better than that right? You can also do it during duty hours. That is pretty much the trifecta right there.


**picture of event invitation coming soon**


Time to pull out my old style smedium pt gear. Might even tie a knot in the front of my shirt.

So no PT gear required? Airmen will be free to be as flamboyant as they want? Wonder how a "Holy Christmas 5K" would go over on base? Or an Easter 5k. Or just a Sunday 5k. How about a hetrosexual 5k where you run with your spouse of the opposite sex and call it as such?

WILDJOKER5
06-10-2014, 06:49 PM
Aren't you a fatty?

The gay guys don't want to see that fat belly flopping around during the run.

Well, most don't, there might be one or two that are into chubby huggy bears, but I say play it conservative.

I honestly wouldnt want to see a fit guy running around like that. Dont hate on fatties.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-10-2014, 06:54 PM
I honestly wouldnt want to see a fit guy running around like that. Dont hate on fatties.

Fat people have less rights than fit people.

sandsjames
06-10-2014, 08:04 PM
Aren't you a fatty?

The gay guys don't want to see that fat belly flopping around during the run.

Well, most don't, there might be one or two that are into chubby huggy bears, but I say play it conservative.

Nope...not a fatty...though I am starting to enjoy the perception you have of me. I guess you assume that since I have had complaints about things such as the PT program and the "importance" of the CCAF that I never took part in either.

Measure Man
06-10-2014, 09:22 PM
So no PT gear required? Airmen will be free to be as flamboyant as they want? Wonder how a "Holy Christmas 5K" would go over on base? Or an Easter 5k. Or just a Sunday 5k. How about a hetrosexual 5k where you run with your spouse of the opposite sex and call it as such?

I get emails from the base chapel at least 3-4 times per week with different religious events.

They seem to go over pretty well.

OtisRNeedleman
06-10-2014, 09:50 PM
Check it out guys. Wright-Patterson is hosting a show your pride 5k. Not only is this a chance to show off your fitness prowess but you can also do it will supporting the AF favorite new cause LGBT pride. It doesn't get any better than that right? You can also do it during duty hours. That is pretty much the trifecta right there.


**picture of event invitation coming soon**

Makes me all the more glad to be retired...

Absinthe Anecdote
06-10-2014, 10:09 PM
I get emails from the base chapel at least 3-4 times per week with different religious events.

They seem to go over pretty well.

I've ran Easter Egg 5k's and a couple of Rudolf Runs before, lots of fun and no complaints from anyone. I'm an atheist and it didn't bother me.

I've also ran a drag race before and had a blast, although I did take my high heels off at the starting line and ran in running shoes. I got disqualified for that, but it was still fun.

Smeghead
06-10-2014, 11:30 PM
Makes me all the more glad to be retired...

Glad? Pun intended?

Absinthe Anecdote
06-10-2014, 11:37 PM
Glad? Pun intended?

Gays Lesbians on Active Duty (GLAD) ?

Gays in Air National Guard & Bisexuals in Air National Guard (GANG BANG) ?

sandsjames
06-10-2014, 11:47 PM
Can't we all just have fun making fun of a certain group of people using blatant stereotypes without it turning in to an argument?

Absinthe Anecdote
06-11-2014, 12:00 AM
Can't we all just have fun making fun of a certain group of people using blatant stereotypes without it turning in to an argument?

We should be able to.

Btw, I wonder what Jonah Hill would call a group of Fat And Grumpy Overweight TSgts?

sandsjames
06-11-2014, 01:14 AM
We should be able to.

Btw, I wonder what Jonah Hill would call a group of Fat And Grumpy Overweight TSgts?

I'd call them Oompa Loompas...luckily I'm not a TSgt so I really wouldn't know.

garhkal
06-11-2014, 04:16 AM
Makes me all the more glad to be retired...

Other than the diminished pay check, same here.

IYAAYAS
06-11-2014, 05:00 AM
Wright Pat wasn't the only place that held this event.

WILDJOKER5
06-11-2014, 11:18 AM
I get emails from the base chapel at least 3-4 times per week with different religious events.

They seem to go over pretty well.

Hmmm....That cool. I dont here at my base. My question for you is, are these for events that are off the grounds of the chapel or inside? Just remembering the big stink put up by a certain group of people about a christmas decoration this year.

WILDJOKER5
06-11-2014, 11:20 AM
I've ran Easter Egg 5k's and a couple of Rudolf Runs before, lots of fun and no complaints from anyone. I'm an atheist and it didn't bother me.

I've also ran a drag race before and had a blast, although I did take my high heels off at the starting line and ran in running shoes. I got disqualified for that, but it was still fun.

Ouch, running in high heels?

On the easter egg 5k's, do you collect eggs while you run and this winner is the one with the most eggs and shortest time?

Absinthe Anecdote
06-11-2014, 11:34 AM
Ouch, running in high heels?

On the easter egg 5k's, do you collect eggs while you run and this winner is the one with the most eggs and shortest time?

No, there is just a giant keg of beer painted like an Easter egg at the end of the race. There is also a guy in a bunny costume that does an ancient pagan fertility dance, because Easter isn't really a Christian holiday, it's the spring holiday for rebirth and renewal that pagans used to celebrate before the Christians stole it.

Just like they stole Christmas from us, that used to be a cool holiday called Saturnalia.

Measure Man
06-11-2014, 02:46 PM
Hmmm....That cool. I dont here at my base. My question for you is, are these for events that are off the grounds of the chapel or inside? Just remembering the big stink put up by a certain group of people about a christmas decoration this year.

I would say most are run by the chapel, but may use other facilities...lately I seem to get one per day about Vacation Bible School, not sure if that is in the chapel or using classrooms somewhere, maybe at the regular school.

Also they regularly run a marriage seminar/retreat deal that is off-base entirely...

I want to also say they have events at the base park sometimes...I think the chapel is one of the few organizations on base that can email "baseX-all" directly without going through PA or the bulletin.

Rainmaker
06-11-2014, 03:47 PM
No, there is just a giant keg of beer painted like an Easter egg at the end of the race. There is also a guy in a bunny costume that does an ancient pagan fertility dance, because Easter isn't really a Christian holiday, it's the spring holiday for rebirth and renewal that pagans used to celebrate before the Christians stole it.

Just like they stole Christmas from us, that used to be a cool holiday called Saturnalia.

The Christians didn't steal it. Constantine converted. It was God's will you corrupted Heathen.

sandsjames
06-11-2014, 03:57 PM
No, there is just a giant keg of beer painted like an Easter egg at the end of the race. There is also a guy in a bunny costume that does an ancient pagan fertility dance, because Easter isn't really a Christian holiday, it's the spring holiday for rebirth and renewal that pagans used to celebrate before the Christians stole it.

Just like they stole Christmas from us, that used to be a cool holiday called Saturnalia.

Are you saying that God hates beer, bunnies, and fertility? That's racist!

Absinthe Anecdote
06-11-2014, 04:28 PM
Are you saying that God hates beer, bunnies, and fertility? That's racist!

Some people might try to tell you that, but not me. God doesn't hate fags either, so you can run in as many gay pride 5ks as you like.

God neither hates or likes anything, he has no opinion.

God is just a myth like any other bit of folk lore or legend.

He is as imaginary as the, so called "War on Christmas" that WJ5 prattles on about.

sandsjames
06-11-2014, 04:33 PM
Some people might try to tell you that, but not me. God doesn't hate fags either, so you can run in as many gay pride 5ks as you like. That's ok...not supporting an event doesn't make me "anti".


God neither hates or likes anything, he has no opinion. He doesn't need an opinion because he knows for sure what is right and wrong.


God is just a myth like any other bit of folk lore or legend.Glad you pointed that out. I've never heard that before. I'm glad you pointed it out!


He is as imaginary as the, so called "War on Christmas" that WJ5 prattles on about."War on Christmas? Is that going to be the follow up to "Dumb and Dumber To"?

Absinthe Anecdote
06-11-2014, 05:10 PM
Glad you pointed that out. I've never heard that before. I'm glad you pointed it out!

No problem, you probably never heard of Green Man before, or the numerous pagan deities that the early church adopted and turned into saints.

War on Christmas? You guys started it when you ripped off Saturnalia!

Next Christmas when you put a tree up in your house, and sneak a kiss with a buxom lass under the mistletoe, you really should raise your glass of eggnog to Green Man.

Now if you'll excuse me, the UPS man just delivered a couple of statues of Zoroaster and Mithras. I want to open them up and look at the inspiration for the Jesus legend.

OtisRNeedleman
06-11-2014, 06:30 PM
Glad? Pun intended?

No pun intended...just glad to be retired. Don't need to put up with this shit.

sandsjames
06-11-2014, 07:50 PM
No problem, you probably never heard of Green Man before, or the numerous pagan deities that the early church adopted and turned into saints.

War on Christmas? You guys started it when you ripped off Saturnalia!

Next Christmas when you put a tree up in your house, and sneak a kiss with a buxom lass under the mistletoe, you really should raise your glass of eggnog to Green Man.

Now if you'll excuse me, the UPS man just delivered a couple of statues of Zoroaster and Mithras. I want to open them up and look at the inspiration for the Jesus legend.

While your at it, buy a gold fish and watch it closely until it turns into a person.

TomTom093
06-11-2014, 09:49 PM
No pun intended...just glad to be retired. Don't need to put up with this shit.

What do you have to "put up with?" If you don't want to go, don't go. If an Airman going negatively impacts the mission, tell them they can't go.

sandsjames
06-11-2014, 10:08 PM
What do you have to "put up with?" If you don't want to go, don't go. If an Airman going negatively impacts the mission, tell them they can't go.

Yeah, right. Tell someone they can't go and you'll be labeled as homophobic, whether there is mission impact or not.

TomTom093
06-11-2014, 10:33 PM
Yeah, right. Tell someone they can't go and you'll be labeled as homophobic, whether there is mission impact or not.

I'll believe that when I see it

sandsjames
06-11-2014, 10:49 PM
I'll believe that when I see it

You won't see it because no boss is going to be stupid enough to tell his troops they can't go.

Measure Man
06-11-2014, 10:59 PM
You won't see it because no boss is going to be stupid enough to tell his troops they can't go.

“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.” ~ Albert Einstein


That said...I think your fear and paranoia of the power of homosexual agenda is irrational. A boss can refuse this as much as any other fun run/dippity do even without consequence.

sandsjames
06-11-2014, 11:06 PM
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the the universe.” ~ Albert Einstein


That said...I think your fear and paranoia of the power of homosexual agenda is irrational. A boss can refuse this as much as any other fun run/dippity do even without consequence.

Of course they can...I would love to see it.

Have you ever tried to tell one of your troops they had to miss church on Sunday during an exercise? Doesn't work out too well. And that's not even an issue in the forefront too much any more.

I would assume that this run, since it's an organized run, will be in PT gear. I would venture as far as saying that someone could show up with wrist bands or other items not allowed in uniform that show support of the LGBT community and nobody would say a word to them.

edit: Just to add, this relates closely to the PC discussion in the other thread. Even if I'm wrong, the perception that it could happen is because of the PC culture. If we didn't live in that culture then there would be no fear from anyone of telling the person they couldn't go.

Measure Man
06-11-2014, 11:13 PM
Of course they can...I would love to see it.

Have you ever tried to tell one of your troops they had to miss church on Sunday during an exercise?

For exercise...I'd say Osan was the only place that we couldn't work around an exercise. So, yes, no one went to church during the exercise...at least not people who lived on base.


Doesn't work out too well. And that's not even an issue in the forefronttoo much any more.

I would assume that this run, since it's an organized run, will be in PT gear. I would venture as far as saying that someone could show up with wrist bands or other items not allowed in uniform that show support of the LGBT community and nobody would say a word to them.

edit: Just to add, this relates closely to the PC discussion in the other thread. Even if I'm wrong, the perception that it could happen is because of the PC culture. If we didn't live in that culture then there would be no fear from anyone of telling the person they couldn't go.

Not buying it...I still say it's no big deal to deny someone...if a cop is schedule to work a gate...or MOCC on shift...they ain't going. As long as you don't specifically target someone so that the CAN't go because you don't like the idea of the run...you'll be fine. Do the right thing.

sandsjames
06-11-2014, 11:16 PM
For exercise...I'd say Osan was the only place that we couldn't work around an exercise. So, yes, no one went to church during the exercise...at least not people who lived on base.



Not buying it...I still say it's no big deal to deny someone...if a cop is schedule to work a gate...or MOCC on shift...they ain't going. As long as you don't specifically target someone so that the CAN't go because you don't like the idea of the run...you'll be fine. Do the right thing.

I hope your right and that it's not an issue. I'd bet, though, that the SFS would make every attempt to modify that guys schedule to allow it.

Measure Man
06-11-2014, 11:28 PM
I hope your right and that it's not an issue. I'd bet, though, that the SFS would make every attempt to modify that guys schedule to allow it.

I don't think so...business as usual, nothing to see here.

OtisRNeedleman
06-11-2014, 11:37 PM
What do you have to "put up with?" If you don't want to go, don't go. If an Airman going negatively impacts the mission, tell them they can't go.

I don't have to put up with this shit because I am retired from active duty. Got it? Not the AF I retired from. Not the AF I joined.

sandsjames
06-11-2014, 11:38 PM
I don't think so...business as usual, nothing to see here.

Yep...if we don't talk about it then it's not an issue...that theory always works great.

Measure Man
06-11-2014, 11:39 PM
I don't have to put up with this shit because I am retired from active duty. Got it? Not the AF I retired from. Not the AF I joined.

It's okay, you're safe now

sandsjames
06-11-2014, 11:42 PM
It's okay, you're safe now

So because he disagrees with it you infer that he's scared of something? Interesting. I suppose it's impossible for people to have different opinions without it being a phobia. Tell me again how we aren't too PC?

TomTom093
06-12-2014, 12:28 AM
I don't have to put up with this shit because I am retired from active duty. Got it? Not the AF I retired from. Not the AF I joined.

Okay, and?

OtisRNeedleman
06-12-2014, 01:01 AM
Okay, and?

And what? That's it.

TomTom093
06-12-2014, 01:51 AM
And what? That's it.

I guess I don't understand why you're getting so worked up over something that doesn't matter anymore now that you're retired.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-12-2014, 02:18 AM
I guess I don't understand why you're getting so worked up over something that doesn't matter anymore now that you're retired.

Because they didn't have gay pride 5ks in his AAF.

Measure Man
06-12-2014, 02:36 AM
So because he disagrees with it you infer that he's scared of something? Interesting. I suppose it's impossible for people to have different opinions without it being a phobia. Tell me again how we aren't too PC?

Uh...no. Not because he disagrees with me...because he's soooo very relieved to not have to deal with a 5K run.

GeoDude
06-12-2014, 06:26 AM
So no PT gear required? Airmen will be free to be as flamboyant as they want? Wonder how a "Holy Christmas 5K" would go over on base? Or an Easter 5k. Or just a Sunday 5k. How about a hetrosexual 5k where you run with your spouse of the opposite sex and call it as such?

We will give you your Holy Christmas 5K... on the condition that the rest of us can have a Holy Christmas Orgy... drinking and banging random people was the original spirit of the holiday after all. ;)

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 10:11 AM
Uh...no. Not because he disagrees with me...because he's soooo very relieved to not have to deal with a 5K run.

I guess we have different definitions of the word "scared" then.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-12-2014, 11:36 AM
Yeah, right. Tell someone they can't go and you'll be labeled as homophobic, whether there is mission impact or not.

You are being irrational, I just can't figure out why. Is it to spark a flurry of madcap zings and quips in the forum? If so, I salute you! :)

If it is because you are really that afraid and wishy-washy, I shake my head in disappointment. :(

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 11:55 AM
You are being irrational, I just can't figure out why. Is it to spark a flurry of madcap zings and quips in the forum? If so, I salute you! :)

If it is because you are really that afraid and wishy-washy, I shake my head in disappointment. :(

I'm not afraid. I don't supervise anybody. And I'd rather have you mad at me than disappointed. You know how I hate disappointing you.

Chief_KO
06-12-2014, 12:11 PM
With each special interest group having 5Ks on a weekly basis, how is it possible for Airmen to fail their PT test?
Why is a 5K the answer to every cause? The activity should be more tailored to the cause...

Absinthe Anecdote
06-12-2014, 12:11 PM
I'm not afraid. I don't supervise anybody. And I'd rather have you mad at me than disappointed. You know how I hate disappointing you.

Got it.

So once again, you are just providing your thoughts on leadership without ever having any real experience on being a boss.

You really should find some gumption, because I think you'd make a wonderful boss.

Here is a Lonely Island video to put some perspective on it for you.


http://youtu.be/NisCkxU544c

Absinthe Anecdote
06-12-2014, 12:19 PM
With each special interest group having 5Ks on a weekly basis, how is it possible for Airmen to fail their PT test?
Why is a 5K the answer to every cause? The activity should be more tailored to the cause...

You are right, having a 5k doesn't really do much to move forward the cause of a special interest.

Colored ribbons on the other hand work wonders, so making sure everyone in the 5k is wearing a ribbon is crucial to success.

Chief_KO
06-12-2014, 12:26 PM
You are right, having a 5k doesn't really do much to move forward the cause of a special interest.

Colored ribbons on the other hand work wonders, so making sure everyone in the 5k is wearing a ribbon is crucial to success.

Nice Seinfeld reference.
I remember once a base was planning a MLK Day 5K...someone actually asked at a planning meeting "What's the point of a 5K? Did Dr King lead a 5K into Selma?"

So it was decided to have a solemn walk, to think and reflect upon Dr King's legacy, followed the video of his entire "I have a Dream" speech. I can honestly say that was the first time I had ever seen/listened to the entire speech. It was very moving.

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 12:38 PM
Got it.

So once again, you are just providing your thoughts on leadership without ever having any real experience on being a boss.

You really should find some gumption, because I think you'd make a wonderful boss.

Here is a Lonely Island video to put some perspective on it for you.



No...again you are assuming something about me from one comment. I was an NCOIC. I am no longer an NCOIC. I am a GS9 with zero responsibility.

And I never ran into an issue with what we are discussing because all we ever did in Power Pro was play horseshoes and Halo, so there was never anything mission critical going on. And, I never had anyone who worked for me who wanted to go to these stupid functions anyway. Everyone realized that the Air Force isn't supposed to be an activist group.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-12-2014, 12:38 PM
Nice Seinfeld reference.
I remember once a base was planning a MLK Day 5K...someone actually asked at a planning meeting "What's the point of a 5K? Did Dr King lead a 5K into Selma?"

So it was decided to have a solemn walk, to think and reflect upon Dr King's legacy, followed the video of his entire "I have a Dream" speech. I can honestly say that was the first time I had ever seen/listened to the entire speech. It was very moving.

I had always thought that Dr. King was just a country preacher until I read his "Letter from Birmingham Jail" and it made me see him in a whole new light.

He was very gifted in his talents as a writer, Letter from Birmingham Jail, is possibly the most eloquent and persuasive piece of writing that I've ever read.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-12-2014, 12:41 PM
No...again you are assuming something about me from one comment. I was an NCOIC. I am no longer an NCOIC. I am a GS9 with zero responsibility.

And I never ran into an issue with what we are discussing because all we ever did in Power Pro was play horseshoes and Halo, so there was never anything mission critical going on. And, I never had anyone who worked for me who wanted to go to these stupid functions anyway. Everyone realized that the Air Force isn't supposed to be an activist group.

Just shut up and go watch the video, sparky.

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 12:41 PM
He was very gifted in his talents as a writer, Letter from Birmingham Jail, is possibly the most eloquent and persuasive piece of writing that I've ever read.That's racist. Now I'm waiting for you to say "He was so well spoken (for a black man)." Maybe you need some sensitivity training.

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 12:43 PM
Just shut up and go watch the video, sparky.

Why would I need to "go" watch the video? It's right here. What you should have said is "Just shut up and watch the video, sparky." Do you think I have several computers at my disposal? One for forums, one for videos, etc?

Absinthe Anecdote
06-12-2014, 12:49 PM
That's racist. Now I'm waiting for you to say "He was so well spoken (for a black man)." Maybe you need some sensitivity training.

Nope, I'm prejudiced against preachers, not black people. Most country preachers aren't very impressive; Dr. King was a very learned man.

Sergeant eNYgma
06-12-2014, 01:27 PM
Would not be interested at all today, tomorrow, or the day after that. Just simply wouldn't reply to the email or if asked just say I have other shit that needs attending to and hope it stops there. If I'm made to go anyway (Max attendance kinda deal) I'll just go run and get the shit over with.

Measure Man
06-12-2014, 02:46 PM
I guess we have different definitions of the word "scared" then.

I don't recall even using the word....that's your word.

What would be the word for it his reaction that this seemingly tiny "issue", (what is the issue with this run anyway?).

Okay, so a base is having a gay pride 5K run. I don't get why this would have someone feeling so glad they didn't have to deal with this...what is there to deal with anyway? You can either let your people go, or you can't. Just like the 5K run they have every other month.

Oh my...June is safety awareness month, whatever will I do if they have a 5K fun run?

socal1200r
06-12-2014, 02:47 PM
Just another reason why I'm embarassed to wear the uniform now. Instead of standing their ground about not repealing DADT, our "distinguished" senior leaders (POTUS, SECDEF, CJCS, CSAF, etc) all fell in lockstep to the demands of the LGBT mafia, and now we have all this gay pride nonsense in DoD. Looks like it's time to make some more equal sign stickers, so I can put them on my target silhouettes at the range...

Absinthe Anecdote
06-12-2014, 03:06 PM
Just another reason why I'm embarassed to wear the uniform now. Instead of standing their ground about not repealing DADT, our "distinguished" senior leaders (POTUS, SECDEF, CJCS, CSAF, etc) all fell in lockstep to the demands of the LGBT mafia, and now we have all this gay pride nonsense in DoD. Looks like it's time to make some more equal sign stickers, so I can put them on my target silhouettes at the range...

What is wrong with gay pride?

You do acknowledge that gay people exist, right?

They were in the military before DADT and now that DADT is gone, you want them to remain hidden?

Does the concept of freedom mean anything to you? Who gets to have freedom?

Would you care to give me a list of which groups get freedom and which groups have to keep silent and hide because it irritates you?

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 03:12 PM
I don't recall even using the word....that's your word. You said, "You can feel safe now". If you don't feel safe then you are scared. You didn't use the word but you implied.


What would be the word for it his reaction that this seemingly tiny "issue", (what is the issue with this run anyway?). Annoyed?


Okay, so a base is having a gay pride 5K run. I don't get why this would have someone feeling so glad they didn't have to deal with this...what is there to deal with anyway? You can either let your people go, or you can't. Just like the 5K run they have every other month.

Oh my...June is safety awareness month, whatever will I do if they have a 5K fun run?It's not about it being a gay pride thing. I feel the same about all the runs that are for some "reason". Again, the Air Force is not an activist group.

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 03:16 PM
What is wrong with gay pride?

You do acknowledge that gay people exist, right?

They were in the military before DADT and now that DADT is gone, you want them to remain hidden?

Does the concept of freedom mean anything to you? Who gets to have freedom?

Would you care to give me a list of which groups get freedom and which groups have to keep silent and hide because it irritates you?

They don't need to "remain hidden", nor does any "group". They just need to be. That's it. Just be. Why does everyone feel the need to be so vocal about who they are, what they do, what they care about, etc? This goes for everything from gay pride to religious freedom.

It's a product of a "look at me" society full of selfies, "I'm having such a bad day" and "Look at the meal I ate" social media.

If nobody is in the forefront then nobody is in the background.

Measure Man
06-12-2014, 03:17 PM
You said, "You can feel safe now". If you don't feel safe then you are scared. You didn't use the word but you implied.

scared is not the antonym of safe. I didn't imply scared, you inferred it...I'm sure so that you could use the "not everyone who disagrees is a phobic" talking point. But, he didn't simply disagree, either. He related some degree of emotional relief in not having to deal with the issue...


Annoyed?

Seems I'd have to be more than annoyed at something for it to make me glad I didn't work there anymore...but, whatever. Whatever it is, he can feel better now.


It's not about it being a gay pride thing. I feel the same about all the runs that are for some "reason". Again, the Air Force is not an activist group.

Yeah, I seem to recall people saying they are glad they retired because the base had a breast cancer awareness run....oh wait, no I can't.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-12-2014, 03:25 PM
You said, "You can feel safe now". If you don't feel safe then you are scared. You didn't use the word but you implied.

That is an impressive dissection and micro-analysis of a post!

I am pleased to nominate you for the prestigious TJMAC77SP Fred Flintstone Award for knit-picking and "You said this, but really meant that".

I'd also like to nominate Measure Man for the Sandsjames Slippery Back Pedaler Award.

Nice going guys! I'm very proud of you both.

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 03:29 PM
scared is not the antonym of safe. I didn't imply scared, you inferred it



Seems I'd have to be more than annoyed at something for it to make me glad I didn't work there anymore...but, whatever. Whatever it is, he can feel better now.



Yeah, I seem to recall people saying they are glad they retired because the base had a breast cancer awareness fun....oh wait, no I can't.

He didn't say he retired because of it. He said he's glad he retired. His statement was, however, direct at the LGBT.

What I'm saying is that we shouldn't have to deal with any of that crap on base. We shouldn't (as an AF, wing, group, squadron) have to constantly have some event we are running for. I'm not sure why people can't see that all of these "events" cause more friction than is necessary. And I'm sure you'll say, "The friction isn't necessary" but whether it is or not, it's there.

It's just the "everyone gets a trophy" culture that is irritating. It's false. Everyone is not special. We shouldn't feel the need to make everyone feel special.

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 03:31 PM
That is an impressive dissection and micro-analysis of a post!

I am pleased to nominate you for the prestigious TJMAC77SP Fred Flintstone Award for knit-picking and "You said this, but really meant that".

I'd also like to nominate Measure Man for the Sandsjames Slippery Back Pedaler Award.

Nice going guys! I'm very proud of you both.

Why do I have a slippery back? Please stop with the homoerotic references, would ya?

Absinthe Anecdote
06-12-2014, 03:38 PM
They don't need to "remain hidden", nor does any "group". They just need to be. That's it. Just be. Why does everyone feel the need to be so vocal about who they are, what they do, what they care about, etc? This goes for everything from gay pride to religious freedom.

It's a product of a "look at me" society full of selfies, "I'm having such a bad day" and "Look at the meal I ate" social media.

If nobody is in the forefront then nobody is in the background.

In the case of gays I would say their need to be vocal is directly linked to their being discriminated against for centuries.

As an atheist, I feel the need to be vocal because we have been vilified for centuries by irrational believers in mainstream society.

Your desire for groups of whatever stripe to "just be" sounds like a gag order to me.

No thanks! I have a voice and I'm not afraid to use it.

PS

That crap about selfies makes you sound like a grumpy old man.

Measure Man
06-12-2014, 03:52 PM
He didn't say he retired because of it.

Neither did I.


He said he's glad he retired. His statement was, however, direct at the LGBT.

The more we run over this cat, the flatter it will get.


What I'm saying is that we shouldn't have to deal with any of that crap on base.

Why not? We deal with people...these are people. It's not like we have an entire career field of highly paid officers who are there for gay counseling and support.


We shouldn't (as an AF, wing, group, squadron) have to constantly have some event we are running for. I'm not sure why people can't see that all of these "events" cause more friction than is necessary. And I'm sure you'll say, "The friction isn't necessary" but whether it is or not, it's there.

It's just the "everyone gets a trophy" culture that is irritating. It's false. Everyone is not special. We shouldn't feel the need to make everyone feel special.

Everyone is special in some way...I don't see anything wrong with that. We have Airman Spotlight deals all the time...I find it interesting to learn different things about people...I've also found out that it's a great way to get to know your Airmen and show them you care about them by attending the events they are involved in. Hey, this Airmen is doing an African cultural dance at the BX on saturday....that one is involved in a regional judo championship an hour away...another one is playing on the MAJCOM volleyball team...this one is filming a movie for their church...I've found nearly everyone has something interesting about their lives and it's cool to learn things you might not otherwise. We're dealing with people, not beans...it's not all about just be on your post when you're supposed to...you interact with people, get to know them, and encourage, motivate, etc. I don't see any real problem with highlighting some of these things.

Are you not proud of anything?

What I find annoying is the bean counter menality that we are here for one thing and one thing only...and that's to produce widgets, anything else is waste. I don't believe that.

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 04:05 PM
Everyone is special in some way... Holy shit...now I know what I'm dealing with here. Thanks for playing.


We have Airman Spotlight deals all the time...I find it interesting to learn different things about people...I've also found out that it's a great way to get to know your Airmen and show them you care about them by attending the events they are involved in. Hey, this Airmen is doing an African cultural dance at the BX on saturday....that one is involved in a regional judo championship an hour away...another one is playing on the MAJCOM volleyball team...this one is filming a movie for their church...I've found nearly everyone has something interesting about their lives and it's cool to learn things you might not otherwise. We're dealing with people, not beans...it's not all about just be on your post when you're supposed to...you interact with people, get to know them, and encourage, motivate, etc. I don't see any real problem with highlighting some of these things.How about you show you care about them by not treating them any differently than you treat anyone else? I'm pretty sure that's what civil rights is about.


Are you not proud of anything? I'm proud of a lot of things. I don't need other people to know which things I'm proud of in order to validate my feelings.


What I find annoying is the bean counter menality that we are here for one thing and one thing only...and that's to produce widgets, anything else is waste. I don't believe that.

Our primary purpose is to produce widgets. If we spent more time producing widgets and less time celebrating everything we might actually be able to do the "more with less" that we keep hearing about.

WILDJOKER5
06-12-2014, 05:15 PM
Some people might try to tell you that, but not me. God doesn't hate fags either, so you can run in as many gay pride 5ks as you like.

God neither hates or likes anything, he has no opinion.

God is just a myth like any other bit of folk lore or legend.

He is as imaginary as the, so called "War on Christmas" that WJ5 prattles on about.

Not sure I have used that term "war on Christmas"? Never really agreed with it...

WILDJOKER5
06-12-2014, 05:19 PM
We will give you your Holy Christmas 5K... on the condition that the rest of us can have a Holy Christmas Orgy... drinking and banging random people was the original spirit of the holiday after all. ;)

Doesnt that happen anyways? Only thing is, you cant really have that sanctioned by the AF since it very might end up in the SARC office with a few false and true reports.

WILDJOKER5
06-12-2014, 05:23 PM
Nope, I'm prejudiced against preachers, not black people. Most country preachers aren't very impressive; Dr. King was a very learned man.

Thats probably why he was a republican.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-12-2014, 05:25 PM
So no PT gear required? Airmen will be free to be as flamboyant as they want? Wonder how a "Holy Christmas 5K" would go over on base? Or an Easter 5k. Or just a Sunday 5k. How about a hetrosexual 5k where you run with your spouse of the opposite sex and call it as such?

I labeled you as a "War on Christmas" claimer because your post appears to suggest that a Holy Christmas 5K would not be allowed on base.

Measure Man
06-12-2014, 05:27 PM
Holy shit...now I know what I'm dealing with here. Thanks for playing.

Uhm...you're welcome. Do you go home at night and tell your wife, "I love you, but there really isn't anything special about you. Thanks for dinner, but, notthing special about it, so don't expect a 'thank you' trophy, it might lead to your sense of entitlement."


How about you show you care about them by not treating them any differently than you treat anyone else? I'm pretty sure that's what civil rights is about.

Nothing I said implies I treat anyone differently.


I'm proud of a lot of things. I don't need other people to know which things I'm proud of in order to validate my feelings.[/qote]

Again, where did I imply they needed it to validate their feelings? You really are in a trolly mood today, aren't you?

[quote]Our primary purpose is to produce widgets.

You use of the primary, implies there are other purposes, or else you should have use the word "sole" purpose.

Oh, I took some time to show an interest is somebody...yes, this really is the demise of society. I can see it now. What? You mean you stopped turning a wrench to ask someone how their class was going? That class will NOT turn widgets! How dare you give them the trophy of your attention unless they proved deserving of it...what is this world coming to? Why back in the old days, no one asked each other what they liked or gave compliments except to the person who finished first...


If we spent more time producing widgets and less time celebrating everything we might actually be able to do the "more with less" that we keep hearing about.

I will agree there is less and less time to be doing these on-duty type events all the time...but, I don't see anything wrong with getting to know what is "special" about your people and showing an interest in their lives. I think people that feel someone cares and is interested in them produce more widgets.

Why, it's the dag-gummed bean counter mentality you have that is ruing this country, by god.

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 05:41 PM
Uhm...you're welcome. Do you go home at night and tell your wife, "I love you, but there really isn't anything special about you. Thanks for dinner, but, notthing special about it, so don't expect a 'thank you' trophy, it might lead to your sense of entitlement." Not sure why you would imply that my wife cooks dinner. That's pretty sexist.

This is a poor comparison. And as far as a "thank you" trophy, there is a difference between being polite and catering to everyone's needs.




Again, where did I imply they needed it to validate their feelings? You really are in a trolly mood today, aren't you? If they don't need validation then why does is need a public production?




You use of the primary, implies there are other purposes, or else you should have use the word "sole" purpose. There are no other purposes of the military other than to defend the people and constitution of the U.S. However, there are requirements within the military that take time away from that primary mission.


Oh, I took some time to show an interest is somebody...yes, this really is the demise of society. I can see it now. What? You mean you stopped turning a wrench to ask someone how their class was going? That class will NOT turn widgets! How dare you give them the trophy of your attention unless they proved deserving of it...what is this world coming to? Why back in the old days, no one asked each other what they liked or gave compliments except to the person who finished first... No problem with taking interest in a person. Big problem with a public support of any advocacy or activist groups on a military installation through military channels.




I will agree there is less and less time to be doing these on-duty type events all the time...but, I don't see anything wrong with getting to know what is "special" about your people and showing an interest in their lives. I think people that feel someone cares and is interested in them produce more widgets. Difference between caring and placing on a pedestal.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-12-2014, 06:12 PM
If they don't need validation then why does is need a public production?



There are no other purposes of the military other than to defend the people and constitution of the U.S. However, there are requirements within the military that take time away from that primary mission.

No problem with taking interest in a person. Big problem with a public support of any advocacy or activist groups on a military installation through military channels.



Difference between caring and placing on a pedestal.

Waah! Waah!

Don't ask anything extra of me because I just want to do my primary job!

Waah Waah!

I don't like PT!

Waah Waah!

Don't acknowledge anyone's outside interests because I don't like that!

Waah Waah!

Don't have gay pride 5Ks because I don't like them.

Waah Waah!

I can't handle being a supervisor.

Waah Waah!

I was a NCOIC

Waah Waah

I'm happy that I don't have to be a supervisor now, and even though I ran from having any additional responsibility my whole career, I could run the Air Force better than the CSAF.

Waah Waah!

My Christmas tree is really part of an ancient pagan custom, but I don't want to believe that!

Waah Waah!

People are constructing opinions of me based on my comments and I don't like it!

Waah Waah

I am constructing opinions of others based on their comments, but that appears to okay since I'm the one doing it!

Waah Waah!

I'm sure I'll think of some haughty snide response or distract attention from clearly losing an argument by endlessly parsing words.

Waah Waah!

Measure Man
06-12-2014, 06:24 PM
Not sure why you would imply that my wife cooks dinner. That's pretty sexist.

You are correct. Way to divert from the point to a minor subtext though.


This is a poor comparison. And as far as a "thank you" trophy, there is a difference between being polite and catering to everyone's needs.

Yes...and having a 5K fun run is not catering to anyone's needs...unless that person needs to run 5K.


If they don't need validation then why does is need a public production?

I don't think they need it at all...it's just something to do. Why do you we have a Saint Patty's day parade? Fourth of July fireworks? I don't need fireworks to validate my patriotic feelings.


There are no other purposes of the military other than to defend the people and constitution of the U.S. However, there are requirements within the military that take time away from that primary mission.

No problem with taking interest in a person. Big problem with a public support of any advocacy or activist groups on a military installation through military channels.

I don't see it as an activist deal...I just see it as dealing with people.


Difference between caring and placing on a pedestal.

No one is placing anyone on a pedestal. I'm not a big supporter of the on-duty hours things...I just don't get all the hand-wringing over it. I think you are completely wrong that supervisors will not be able to deny participation without being labeled homophobic. This entire deal...the previous ban on homosexuals serving...the DADT policy...it's repeal...has been wrought with irrational fears about all this horrible stuff that's "going to happen next"...

I don't care if the Rod & Gun club wants to have a fun run...or the gay pride club...or the Little league Coaches association...or the Protestant Youth Group Leaders...knock yourself out. If you're one of my troops...there is a high chance I will support your efforts however I can...mission permitting.

I don't see it as placing anyone on a pedestal...it's just supporting and showing an interest in them.

Max Power
06-12-2014, 06:45 PM
http://foodriot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/popcorn.gif

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 06:49 PM
Waah! Waah!

Don't ask anything extra of me because I just want to do my primary job!

Waah Waah!

I don't like PT!

Waah Waah!

Don't acknowledge anyone's outside interests because I don't like that!

Waah Waah!

Don't have gay pride 5Ks because I don't like them.

Waah Waah!

I can't handle being a supervisor.

Waah Waah!

I was a NCOIC

Waah Waah

I'm happy that I don't have to be a supervisor now, and even though I ran from having any additional responsibility my whole career, I could run the Air Force better than the CSAF.

Waah Waah!

My Christmas tree is really part of an ancient pagan custom, but I don't want to believe that!

Waah Waah!

People are constructing opinions of me based on my comments and I don't like it!

Waah Waah

I am constructing opinions of others based on their comments, but that appears to okay since I'm the one doing it!

Waah Waah!

I'm sure I'll think of some haughty snide response or distract attention from clearly losing an argument by endlessly parsing words.

Waah Waah!

Very nice...

Great way to distract that the only point being made was that the military should not be an activist group for anyone and that the even in question will be pushed because of the focus being put on it right now.

I do like all the other points you made, though they had nothing to do with anything.

WILDJOKER5
06-12-2014, 06:49 PM
I labeled you as a "War on Christmas" claimer because your post appears to suggest that a Holy Christmas 5K would not be allowed on base.

Oh, so because I said "that", I really meant "this"? Sand, I think I found your running mate for "nit-picker" of the forum award. lol

WILDJOKER5
06-12-2014, 06:58 PM
What is wrong with gay pride?Same thing that was wrong about mustache March. Or Male pride. Or white pride. Or black pride. Its exclusive.


You do acknowledge that gay people exist, right? Never seen anyone deny that one.


They were in the military before DADT and now that DADT is gone, you want them to remain hidden?So not announcing it to the world is "hidding it"? Its one thing to introduce everyone at a Christmas party to your same sex partner", its another to send out an email encouraging everyone to come out and run 5k for a specific cause. At least march of dimes donates to research. Does the GLAD or LBGT need donations that bad to have a fund raiser on a military instalation?


Does the concept of freedom mean anything to you? Who gets to have freedom?Uhh....really? Are you a supporter of Obamacare? Or gun control? How about supporting bigger income taxes? All of which strip people of some freedom.


Would you care to give me a list of which groups get freedom and which groups have to keep silent and hide because it irritates you?
Well, we know white Christian males can't have an all white Christian male pride 5k, so theres one.

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 07:02 PM
I don't think they need it at all...it's just something to do. Why do you we have a Saint Patty's day parade? On base? We don't


Fourth of July fireworks? I don't need fireworks to validate my patriotic feelings. I don't need it either, but at least it's related to the military.




I don't see it as an activist deal...I just see it as dealing with people. People can be "dealt" with as their needs arise. The even in question isn't about anyone's needs, it's about the military trying to make a public statement.


No one is placing anyone on a pedestal. Sure they are. Why do you think the base chapel has a service for all (Judeo-Christian) religions? It's so they don't show the appearance of favoring any (Judeo-Christian) religions.


I'm not a big supporter of the on-duty hours things...I just don't get all the hand-wringing over it. I think you are completely wrong that supervisors will not be able to deny participation without being labeled homophobic. This entire deal...the previous ban on homosexuals serving...the DADT policy...it's repeal...has been wrought with irrational fears about all this horrible stuff that's "going to happen next"... What is happening "next" (not specific to the DADT) is that military members are being coddled. I know that's been said for years and years and every generation thinks the same thing but it's true. Each year we find some new way to keep people from feeling left out. Don't get me wrong...it's not a military thing...it's a societal thing. I just always thought the military was above that.


I don't care if the Rod & Gun club wants to have a fun run...or the gay pride club...or the Little league Coaches association...or the Protestant Youth Group Leaders...knock yourself out. If you're one of my troops...there is a high chance I will support your efforts however I can...mission permitting. Luckily all of these functions have gatorade or some other sponsor at them. I'm looking forward to the day when uniforms look like Nascar paint jobs. But that's beside the point. It's no wonder the other services think the Air Force is a joke.


I don't see it as placing anyone on a pedestal...it's just supporting and showing an interest in them.

Here's the difference. My wife loves one specific soap opera. Watches it every day. In todays military environment, me being supportive would be me telling her "That's great babe, I'll watch it with you so we can enjoy it as a couple because if it's important to you then it's important to me" when all the support she really needs is for me to go out in the garage while she does what she's going to do.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-12-2014, 07:08 PM
Very nice...

Great way to distract that the only point being made was that the military should not be an activist group for anyone and that the even in question will be pushed because of the focus being put on it right now.

I do like all the other points you made, though they had nothing to do with anything.

Thanks little buddy!

And notice that since I used the personal pronoun "I" it wasn't a personal attack against you.

I was just making statements about myself.

WILDJOKER5
06-12-2014, 07:09 PM
I don't need it either, but at least it's related to the military.I have never seen fireworks on American bases before. I have seen them overseas. But they also are done for every American, not just a specific group of Americans.



What is happening "next" (not specific to the DADT) is that military members are being coddled. I know that's been said for years and years and every generation thinks the same thing but it's true. Each year we find some new way to keep people from feeling left out. Don't get me wrong...it's not a military thing...it's a societal thing. I just always thought the military was above that.No, we are the test subjects for what the politicians will do to society next. The VA healthcare is the grandfather for Obamacare. They thought it was running smoothly, until the truth comes out. Yet we all knew how bad it was for years.

Measure Man
06-12-2014, 07:09 PM
when all the support she really needs is for me to go out in the garage while she does what she's going to do.

Okay...so go in the garage and let them have their run.

WILDJOKER5
06-12-2014, 07:13 PM
Okay...so go in the garage and let them have their run.

So you are going to defend me if I try and have a White Christian heterosexual male pride 5k? Everyone can run, no discrimination at all. There wouldnt be any chains or weighted vests to slow down the more....gifted runners. But since this is all hypothetical, you are pretty safe to say "yes" cause no one will call you out later on.

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 07:16 PM
Okay...so go in the garage and let them have their run.

Because what really needs to happen is that she needs to cook dinner because that's part of her mission, but if word got out that I said that I'd be labled a sexist. So the mission gets put on hold in order to avoid contraversy.

WILDJOKER5
06-12-2014, 07:18 PM
Because what really needs to happen is that she needs to cook dinner because that's part of her mission, but if word got out that I said that I'd be labled a sexist. So the mission gets put on hold in order to avoid contraversy.

Why cant I give out "likes" anymore? Cause I like this post. lol

Rusty Jones
06-12-2014, 07:19 PM
http://foodriot.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/popcorn.gif

Dude, are you ever gonna contibute something of value to these threads?

Rusty Jones
06-12-2014, 07:22 PM
So you are going to defend me if I try and have a White Christian heterosexual male pride 5k? Everyone can run, no discrimination at all. There wouldnt be any chains or weighted vests to slow down the more....gifted runners. But since this is all hypothetical, you are pretty safe to say "yes" cause no one will call you out later on.

Go ahead. Have your 5K. And when people complain about it - and they will - just remember that you were in their shoes when others had their 5K.

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 07:26 PM
Here's the major point that everyone is missing. When THE FUCK did any sort of running become the norm for celebrating anything? If that doesn't show how off kilter we are then I don't know what does.

Maybe it's not the event itself that I dislike...just the function to celebrate that event. Turn the 5k into a kegger and I'll attend.

Measure Man
06-12-2014, 07:37 PM
So you are going to defend me if I try and have a White Christian heterosexual male pride 5k? Everyone can run, no discrimination at all. There wouldnt be any chains or weighted vests to slow down the more....gifted runners.

Sure, go ahead.

The only issue I've ever had with the Christian deal is when people use official functions/offices/positions to enforce/advocate it.

Of course, there is no Constitutional amendment banning establishment of sexual orientation, so religious events are on a bit shakier ground as it is specifically referenced as requiring a certain degree of distance from the government.

As I mentioned elsewhere though...I get emails at least 3-4 times per week for chapel events that I have no problem with whatsoever.

It might surprise you to know, that the previous example I gave of an Airman making a film for the church was a true one...and I even took time out of my weekend to go check out the filming and help with the lights and sound board and some other tasks.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-12-2014, 07:38 PM
Here's the major point that everyone is missing. When THE FUCK did any sort of running become the norm for celebrating anything? If that doesn't show how off kilter we are then I don't know what does.

Maybe it's not the event itself that I dislike...just the function to celebrate that event. Turn the 5k into a kegger and I'll attend.

I love running!

You like keggers?

There are plenty of drinking clubs that have a running problem.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hash_House_Harriers

You can drink beer and have lots of fun at the Down Down.

If there isn't a chapter near you, start your own!

Absinthe Anecdote
06-12-2014, 07:49 PM
So you are going to defend me if I try and have a White Christian heterosexual male pride 5k? Everyone can run, no discrimination at all. There wouldnt be any chains or weighted vests to slow down the more....gifted runners. But since this is all hypothetical, you are pretty safe to say "yes" cause no one will call you out later on.

Go for it!

But I have a suspicion that you are happier just to sit back and complain that you can't have a run like that.

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 08:11 PM
I love running! Figures


You like keggers? Not really, but in comparison to running for "fun", yes. I've always found that social events are always better when you can be social.

Measure Man
06-12-2014, 08:16 PM
Not really, but in comparison to running for "fun", yes. I've always found that social events are always better when you can be social.

Gay night at the club, here we go.

Start off with a Cornhole tournament maybe?

Stalwart
06-12-2014, 09:11 PM
Not buying it...I still say it's no big deal to deny someone...if a cop is schedule to work a gate...or MOCC on shift...they ain't going. As long as you don't specifically target someone so that the CAN't go because you don't like the idea of the run...you'll be fine. Do the right thing.

For the most I agree with you. I could see it being a problem if the Airmen scheduled to work a shift had arranged to have a qualified watch relief cover them for the time period and were still denied. When managing the watchbill, as long as the watch is covered by a qualified watchstander who won't be working excessive hours etc. I would have no problem letting them alter the watchbill/schedule.


Here's the major point that everyone is missing. When THE FUCK did any sort of running become the norm for celebrating anything? If that doesn't show how off kilter we are then I don't know what does.

Maybe it's not the event itself that I dislike...just the function to celebrate that event. Turn the 5k into a kegger and I'll attend.

I will give you that. I kind of enjoy running and a couple years ago celebrated my 40th birthday with a particularly long (but slow) run ... just to do it (and probably combat the mental hurdle of hitting 40.)

I have no issue with some sort of volunteer fun run for any activity. How a fun run necessarily translates into celebrating LGBTQ equality or pride is not something I make an instant connection with, but if people want to do it ... it is isn't harming me ... no big deal.

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 09:15 PM
Gay night at the club, here we go.

Start off with a Cornhole tournament maybe?

Seems like a pretty homophobic comment...I've seen people banned for less homophobic comments than that.

Measure Man
06-12-2014, 09:55 PM
Seems like a pretty homophobic comment...I've seen people banned for less homophobic comments than that.

Our club on base has Cornhole tournaments every couple months or so...that's why i thought of it.

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 09:56 PM
Our club on base has Cornhole tournaments every couple months or so...that's why i thought of it.

Of course it is.

You know the worst kind of bigot? The one who tries to make you think he's not.

Measure Man
06-12-2014, 10:21 PM
Of course it is.

That's not to say the innuendo was unintended.


You know the worst kind of bigot? The one who tries to make you think he's not.

The worst kind of troll is one without a sense of humor.

Geez man...why so bitter, lighten up!

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 10:52 PM
That's not to say the innuendo was unintended.



The worst kind of troll is one without a sense of humor.

Geez man...why so bitter, lighten up!

If I were to find it funny I couldn't admit it because it would derail my trolling. Staying in character is always priority #1. I also might admit it but that would require you to admit that the little ride we took to get to the point of my wife cooking me dinner as she is supposed to was pretty witty.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-12-2014, 11:33 PM
That's not to say the innuendo was unintended.



The worst kind of troll is one without a sense of humor.

Geez man...why so bitter, lighten up!

I can not tell when he is being bitter and when he is being a troll sometimes.

His bitter, "don't ask anything extra of me" routine drives me nuts. It reminds me of the most frustrating troop that I ever supervised.

sandsjames
06-12-2014, 11:47 PM
I can not tell when he is being bitter and when he is being a troll sometimes.

His bitter, "don't ask anything extra of me" routine drives me nuts. It reminds me of the most frustrating troop that I ever supervised.

What's funny about this is I have never said "don't ask anything extra of me". Again, that's something you presumed based on my complaints about certain things. Just because I don't like them doesn't mean I never did them.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-13-2014, 12:21 AM
What's funny about this is I have never said "don't ask anything extra of me". Again, that's something you presumed based on my complaints about certain things. Just because I don't like them doesn't mean I never did them.

No, what's funny about it is how you suddenly change your tune and pretend to be a super troop each time I embarrass you for being a whiner.

sandsjames
06-13-2014, 12:29 AM
No, what's funny about it is how you suddenly change your tune and pretend to be a super troop each time I embarrass you for being a whiner.

I'm no super troop, that's for sure. I showed up, did what was asked of me, and went home. I bitched about the stuff I didn't like to my wife and my friends.

What's really funny is how you change your tune when you have someone else to team up with. What's also funny is how you turned this into another thread about my whining in order to divert from the fact that the military is involved with a lot of unnecessary bullshit.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-13-2014, 12:48 AM
I'm no super troop, that's for sure. I showed up, did what was asked of me, and went home. I bitched about the stuff I didn't like to my wife and my friends.

What's really funny is how you change your tune when you have someone else to team up with. What's also funny is how you turned this into another thread about my whining in order to divert from the fact that the military is involved with a lot of unnecessary bullshit.

Grow up!

Life is full of unnecessary bullshit; learn to deal with some other way than whining.

giggawatt
06-13-2014, 12:54 AM
I can confirm. Hashing is fun. I ran with Sembach HHH a few times.

Anyway, everyone knows that these runs have nothing to do with the group, or heritage month, or whatever the fuck. These runs serve the sole purpose of providing a 1206/EPR bullet for someone who led/organized/coordinated a wing wide event. Boom! Instant E-8 or pretty soon E-7.

VCO
06-13-2014, 07:44 AM
The only issue I've ever had with the Christian deal is when people use official functions/offices/positions to enforce/advocate it.

Bingo. That is my issue with the lesbian, bisexual, gay, transsexual bullshit being pushed on us. If I have to delete one more spam email pushing this BS, I'm tempted to go to the media. I've had it. There is a difference between live and let live and pushing your sick shit on other people.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-13-2014, 11:06 AM
Bingo. That is my issue with the lesbian, bisexual, gay, transsexual bullshit being pushed on us. If I have to delete one more spam email pushing this BS, I'm tempted to go to the media. I've had it. There is a difference between live and let live and pushing your sick shit on other people.


Poor guy, I can understand the hardship you must be going through from getting these horrible spam emails.

I have a cousin in Toledo, Ohio who is in intensive care from getting a spam email about a gay pride event.

We've been having prayer circles for him twice a day. I'll add you to our prayers, don't worry about PMing your real name to me.

I think I can just use your screen name, because my pastor says that The Lord can figure out your real name from just the screen name.

I think he must have a cyber angel that can do that for him, but pastor says he probably just blinks his eyes or wiggles his nose like on I Dream of Jeanie.

Either way, be strong and don't let those evil spam emails vanquish you.

We are praying for you VCO!

WILDJOKER5
06-13-2014, 04:07 PM
Sure, go ahead.

The only issue I've ever had with the Christian deal is when people use official functions/offices/positions to enforce/advocate it.What happened to the rest of my post?


Of course, there is no Constitutional amendment banning establishment of sexual orientation, so religious events are on a bit shakier ground as it is specifically referenced as requiring a certain degree of distance from the government.Actually, it only references the congress and making a laws for or against the establishment of religion, not ALL government entities...but I know its been discussed in the SCOTUS, so we dont really need to get into everything wrong about interpritation of the constitution.


As I mentioned elsewhere though...I get emails at least 3-4 times per week for chapel events that I have no problem with whatsoever. Cause its a simple stroke of the delete button and they are gone?

Measure Man
06-13-2014, 04:27 PM
What happened to the rest of my post?

I don't know. You edited it around the same time I was replying...did you add that last part?

Either that or I didn't include it because I had no comment on it...I don't recall.

I think what you're trying to imply is it is easy for me to "Yes" on the forum because you have no plans to hold a White Christian male pride run...so you could not therefore expose the hypocrisy you assume I have by demonstrating that I would not support such a run.

I guess that's your tough luck on that one. Unless you stand up for what you believe in and organize a run.


Actually, it only references the congress and making a laws for or against the establishment of religion, not ALL government entities...but I know its been discussed in the SCOTUS, so we dont really need to get into everything wrong about interpritation of the constitution.

Yes...agree or disagree, you must that admit religion is specifically referenced in the Constitution, while sexual orientation is not, and as such, should be treated with somewhat more caution.


Cause its a simple stroke of the delete button and they are gone?

I don't understand the question. Do I delete them? Yes. But, they also do not bother me on principle.

However, if the base commander sent out his Christian testimonial and declaration that he believed people needed God to be effective leaders...that would be just as easy to delete, but would bother me on principle.

TomTom093
06-13-2014, 04:35 PM
Cause its a simple stroke of the delete button and they are gone?

If it's so easy for someone to click delete on religious events, why is it so hard for someone else to click delete for the 5K?

Absinthe Anecdote
06-13-2014, 04:47 PM
If it's so easy for someone to click delete on religious events, why is it so hard for someone else to click delete for the 5K?

As Fonzie would say, "Correct-a-mundo!"

If I ever get a magic wish from a Geanie in a lamp, or a Burning Bush, I'm going to wish that the entire planet starts acting like cool little Fonzies.

Smeghead
06-13-2014, 05:09 PM
Bingo. That is my issue with the lesbian, bisexual, gay, transsexual bullshit being pushed on us. If I have to delete one more spam email pushing this BS, I'm tempted to go to the media. I've had it. There is a difference between live and let live and pushing your sick shit on other people.

Yeah, you tell 'em , Fred Phelps! Thought you were dead?

And what exactly would you say to the media?

WILDJOKER5
06-13-2014, 05:13 PM
I don't know. You edited it around the same time I was replying...did you add that last part?[quote]ok, was just wondering since there was a post before you from Rusty who had my edit in. No worries. :)

[QUOTE]Yes...agree or disagree, you must that admit religion is specifically referenced in the Constitution, while sexual orientation is not, and as such, should be treated with somewhat more caution.Yes, agree, with respect to congress, and congress only. SO is never mentioned, but yet people want to put it under the 14th for "equal rights".


I don't understand the question. Do I delete them? Yes. But, they also do not bother me on principle.

However, if the base commander sent out his Christian testimonial and declaration that he believed people needed God to be effective leaders...that would be just as easy to delete, but would bother me on principle.
Why does one bother you but not the other? There is nothing in the constitution that denies the commander from giving his testimony or opinion. It would be just like if he said (with no religious conotation) that kids raised in 2 parent house holds are the best behaved and more successful than those raised in single parent households. Or saying those who have dogs lead happier lives.

WILDJOKER5
06-13-2014, 05:14 PM
If it's so easy for someone to click delete on religious events, why is it so hard for someone else to click delete for the 5K?

I didnt say it wasnt. But is there a group taking the base to court over having a gay pride 5k like there was for the nativity scene on base?

WILDJOKER5
06-13-2014, 05:15 PM
Yeah, you tell 'em , Fred Phelps! Thought you were dead?

And what exactly would you say to the media?

How was his comment even close to what Fred Phelps would do?

Smeghead
06-13-2014, 05:19 PM
How was his comment even close to what Fred Phelps would do?

Oh my bad, because it was just dripping with tolerance right?

sandsjames
06-13-2014, 05:31 PM
Oh my bad, because it was just dripping with tolerance right?

It had nothing to do with tolerance. I can tolerate anyone. That doesn't mean I have to be accepting.

TomTom093
06-13-2014, 05:38 PM
I didnt say it wasnt. But is there a group taking the base to court over having a gay pride 5k like there was for the nativity scene on base?

There's a bit of a difference between a variety of organizations having a 5K and a single religion being allowed to have a holiday display.

Measure Man
06-13-2014, 05:41 PM
ok, was just wondering since there was a post before you from Rusty who had my edit in. No worries. :)

Possible I started mine before your edit..., then you edit....then Rusty starts his reply and finishes it, then I finish mine...sometimes I'm slow.


Yes, agree, with respect to congress, and congress only. SO is never mentioned, but yet people want to put it under the 14th for "equal rights".

We can get into the various interpretations of the Constitution all day...the point I was making is the Consitution puts some restriction on the govt. in relation to religion, where it does not to sexual orientation...so, it would stand to reason there is SOME things the govts CAN do with SO that they can NOT do with religion. We can debate where and what those things are until the cows come home...citing SCOTUS decisions and saying "well, the SCOTUS is wrong"...


Why does one bother you but not the other? There is nothing in the constitution that denies the commander from giving his testimony or opinion. It would be just like if he said (with no religious conotation) that kids raised in 2 parent house holds are the best behaved and more successful than those raised in single parent households. Or saying those who have dogs lead happier lives.

The commander stating that leaders need to have a relationship with God is more of a violaton of AF and EEO policy/law than the Consitution perhaps.

Would you be okay with a commander that stated "Christians make poor leaders because they rely on an nonexistent being to make things better rather than taking personal responsibility"?

Constitutional or not...it creates a hostile work environment.

TomTom093
06-13-2014, 05:42 PM
It had nothing to do with tolerance. I can tolerate anyone. That doesn't mean I have to be accepting.

But just remember, no one has to accept you either.

Rusty Jones
06-13-2014, 05:44 PM
It had nothing to do with tolerance. I can tolerate anyone. That doesn't mean I have to be accepting.

You may as well not even be tolerant then.

What this sounds like... is that you really may hold views that reflect intolerance, only you might feel that those views are not worth making enemies over.

sandsjames
06-13-2014, 05:57 PM
But just remember, no one has to accept you either.Nope, they sure don't.

sandsjames
06-13-2014, 06:02 PM
You may as well not even be tolerant then.

What this sounds like... is that you really may hold views that reflect intolerance, only you might feel that those views are not worth making enemies over.

Nope, no views of intolerance. Just views about what I personally find acceptable as it relates to my life.

I have a family member who is an alcoholic. I can tolerate being around him, and I care about him greatly and would do pretty much anything to protect him. That doesn't mean I think that his drinking is ok.


I have friends who have had abortions. I am tolerant of the choices they've made. They are my friends. That doesn't mean that I have to accept their actions as ok.

Big difference.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-13-2014, 06:10 PM
You may as well not even be tolerant then.

What this sounds like... is that you really may hold views that reflect intolerance, only you might feel that those views are not worth making enemies over.

Or he lacks the conviction and courage to stand up for his views; however, misguided they might be.

Perhaps, he has the intelligence to realize that he would be labeled a social pariah if he became a full on gay basher? That actually might be the real basis for all those who grumble about how horrible political correctness is.

They know that they have been de-fanged and de-clawed in a PC environment.

Mostly, I think it is just sheer laziness. It is so much easier for them to grumble on a web forum than for them to nail their courage to the post.

sandsjames
06-13-2014, 06:16 PM
Or he lacks the conviction and courage to stand up for his views; however, misguided they might be.

Perhaps, he has the intelligence to realize that he would be labeled a social pariah if he became a full on gay basher? That actually might be the real basis for all those who grumble about how horrible political correctness is.

They know that they have been de-fanged and de-clawed in a PC environment.

Mostly, I think it is just sheer laziness. It is so much easier for them to grumble on a web forum than for them to nail their courage to the post.

Glad to know that you agree with everything all of the people you care about do.

sandsjames
06-13-2014, 06:18 PM
Perhaps, he has the intelligence to realize that he would be labeled a social pariah if he became a full on gay basher? That actually might be the real basis for all those who grumble about how horrible political correctness is. Why would I gay bash? People can do what they choose to do.


Mostly, I think it is just sheer laziness. It is so much easier for them to grumble on a web forum than for them to nail their courage to the post.Funny seeing this come from a guy who has over 2000 posts on this forum.

Measure Man
06-13-2014, 06:23 PM
Nope, no views of intolerance. Just views about what I personally find acceptable as it relates to my life.

I have a family member who is an alcoholic. I can tolerate being around him, and I care about him greatly and would do pretty much anything to protect him. That doesn't mean I think that his drinking is ok.


I have friends who have had abortions. I am tolerant of the choices they've made. They are my friends. That doesn't mean that I have to accept their actions as ok.

Big difference.

How does that difference manifest itself in action?

Not a trolling questions...genuinely curious.

If you say "I tolerate them, but do not accept them." Are they treated differently from someone you tolerate and accept? In your personal or professional ife?

sandsjames
06-13-2014, 06:27 PM
How does that difference manifest itself in action?

Not a trolling questions...genuinely curious.

If you say "I tolerate them, but do not accept them." Are they treated differently from someone you tolerate and accept? In your personal or professional ife?

I'm tolerant of the things I don't like. The traits I like outweigh the traits I dislike. it's like any relationship, I guess. The same way I tolerate my wife telling me she's ready to go, then having it take her 10 more minutes. I'm not tolerating my wife, I'm tolerating the things she does that bug me because the overall person is more than a sum of their traits.

edit: My sister is a bible thumper. Some of the beliefs she has I completely disagree with. The things she believes to be right and wrong are probably considered by most to be extreme. I tolerate that part of her and she knows very clearly that I disagree with her lifestyle. That doesn't make us accept the lifestyle. I'm not going to show up to her church and she's not going to watch Harry Potter with me. We're OK with that.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-13-2014, 06:30 PM
Why would I gay bash? People can do what they choose to do.

Funny seeing this come from a guy who has over 2000 posts on this forum.

Wow! That post must have hit a little close to home, you responded twice, edited out the best sentence, and didn't even answer it.

Sorry SJ,

You can't un-ring a bell, I'll repost it for you, so you can try to address it a third time.


Perhaps, he has the intelligence to realize that he would be labeled a social pariah if he became a full on gay basher?

That actually might be the real basis for all those who grumble about how horrible political correctness is.

They know that they have been de-fanged and de-clawed in a PC environment.

sandsjames
06-13-2014, 06:32 PM
Wow! That post must have hit a little close to home, you responded twice, edited out the best sentence, and didn't even respond to it.

Sorry SJ,

You can't un-ring a bell, I'll repost it for you, so you can try to address it a third time.

Nope, I deleted that part because I didn't feel the need to respond to it. The only response I could have given to it was "No it's not" and that sounds a little "I know you are but what am I" so I avoided it.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-13-2014, 06:40 PM
Nope, I deleted that part because I didn't feel the need to respond to it. The only response I could have given to it was "No it's not" and that sounds a little "I know you are but what am I" so I avoided it.

Huh? That makes no sense at all.

I'll let you off the hook; besides, you painted yourself into such a corner in this thread if someone doesn't give you some wiggle room, you might have another meltdown.

sandsjames
06-13-2014, 06:45 PM
Huh? That makes no sense at all.

I'll let you off the hook; besides, you painted yourself into such a corner in this thread if someone doesn't give you some wiggle room, you might have another meltdown.


And what corner is that? That you can like someone and not agree with everything they do?

Absinthe Anecdote
06-13-2014, 07:08 PM
And what corner is that? That you can like someone and not agree with everything they do?

The corner of the gay haters.

I don't blame you for softening your comments and trying to back out of the corner.

Deep down yo know that a gay pride 5k isn't hurting you, and that ranting about getting emails is childish.

I'm not surprised that after you have been hit over the head with that simple fact, that you have watered your argument down to, " I like them, but I don't agree with them."

Just a few posts ago, it was, " I tolerate them, but I don't accept them."

It's ok little buddy, I'll let you out of the corner.

Come on out, you're forgiven, you can still be my MT Forum pal.

sandsjames
06-13-2014, 07:13 PM
The corner of the gay haters.

I don't blame you for softening your comments and trying to back out of the corner.

Deep down yo know that a gay pride 5k isn't hurting you, and that ranting about getting emails is childish.

I'm not surprised that after you have been hit over the head with that simple fact, that you have watered your argument down to, " I like them, but I don't agree with them."

Just a few posts ago, it was, " I tolerate them, but I don't accept them."

It's ok little buddy, I'll let you out of the corner.

Come on out, you're forgiven, you can still be my MT Forum pal.

Keep trying...and keep trying to avoid the question about whether you agree with the way all of your friends and family live their lives.

And keep trying to focus on my phraseology and not my intent.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-13-2014, 08:06 PM
Keep trying...and keep trying to avoid the question about whether you agree with the way all of your friends and family live their lives.

And keep trying to focus on my phraseology and not my intent.

Indeed, and you keep trying to deny that you are on the wrong side of an argument.

Yesterday you were using the "just be" argument. If I got the gist of that right, it was "just be" who you are but keep you mouth shut about it.

Sounds a little bit like DADT to me, but you wanted to expand it to cover ethnic groups.

How would you like to live under DADT?

I'm guessing you wouldn't like it that much.

You might be one of those dudes that doesn't talk too much about their personal life, but I'm going to guess that if someone told you to "just be" and keep quite, you'd be a hell of a lot more pissed off than you are now.

Come on, little buddy, just admit you came down on the wrong side of this thing. I know you aren't a hater like the ones you are siding with.

Be a cool little Fonzie, and quit getting steamed over gay pride 5K emails. You can do it.

What would the J-man do?

Would he go all Leviticus and stone someone for sending out an email for a gay pride email?

Would he say thou shalt "just be" but thy must remain silent and send no emails about gay pride 5Ks.

Or would he advise you to calm down and quit whining so much?

sandsjames
06-13-2014, 08:17 PM
Indeed, and you keep trying to deny that you are on the wrong side of an argument.

Yesterday you were using the "just be" argument. If I got the gist of that right, it was "just be" who you are but keep you mouth shut about it.

Sounds a little bit like DADT to me, but you wanted to expand it to cover ethnic groups.

How would you like to live under DADT?

I'm guessing you wouldn't like it that much.

You might be one of those dudes that doesn't talk too much about their personal life, but I'm going to guess that if someone told you to "just be" and keep quite, you'd be a hell of a lot more pissed off than you are now.

Come on, little buddy, just admit you came down on the wrong side of this thing. I know you aren't a hater like the ones you are siding with.

Be a cool little Fonzie, and quit getting steamed over gay pride 5K emails. You can do it.

What would the J-man do?

Would he go all Leviticus and stone someone for sending out an email for a gay pride email?

Would he say thou shalt "just be" but thy must remain silent and send no emails about gay pride 5Ks.

Or would he advise you to calm down and quit whining so much?

I'm very happy to "just be".

I don't care if I work with a gay guy. I don't care if he brings his (insert term here) to social events. I would hope he does. I just wouldn't want to see him making a big deal about it any more than I want to hear from someone how evil it is.

And with the last half of your post you are so over the top and transparent it makes me chuckle a little bit. Good comedy.

Oh, and don't send the emails about gay pride, black history, Easter Egg hunt, Pacific Islander heritage, bowling tournaments, golf, Halo 2 tournament, etc. Every base has a web page. Throw it on the base page bulletin board. If I'm curious about what's going on, I'll check there.

edit: Let me try this example. Maybe you'll admit, instead of pretending to "catch me packpedaling" that you get my point.

I have no problem with people going to the gym. I have no problem with people lifting weights. What really annoys me is the weight lifter who has to walk around in his "Gold's Gym" shirt to make everyone aware that he's a weight lifter.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-13-2014, 08:59 PM
I'm very happy to "just be".

I don't care if I work with a gay guy. I don't care if he brings his (insert term here) to social events. I would hope he does. I just wouldn't want to see him making a big deal about it any more than I want to hear from someone how evil it is.

And with the last half of your post you are so over the top and transparent it makes me chuckle a little bit. Good comedy.

Oh, and don't send the emails about gay pride, black history, Easter Egg hunt, Pacific Islander heritage, bowling tournaments, golf, Halo 2 tournament, etc. Every base has a web page. Throw it on the base page bulletin board. If I'm curious about what's going on, I'll check there.

edit: Let me try this example. Maybe you'll admit, instead of pretending to "catch me packpedaling" that you get my point.

I have no problem with people going to the gym. I have no problem with people lifting weights. What really annoys me is the weight lifter who has to walk around in his "Gold's Gym" shirt to make everyone aware that he's a weight lifter.

Ok little buddy,

You are out of the gay hater corner, but I'm afraid I'll have to put you in the "Mean Mr. Mustard" corner.

You are just a grumpy grouchy guy that is easily irritated by other people. Have fun in that corner with people like Ebenezer Scrooge, Mr. Potter, Walter Matthau, WILLS POWERS, and every other old grump who keeps baseballs accidentally hit into his yard.

You are welcome to visit me in the Fonzie corner anytime you want.

sandsjames
06-13-2014, 09:02 PM
Ok little buddy,

You are out of the gay hater corner, but I'm afraid I'll have to put you in the "Mean Mr. Mustard" corner.

You are just a grumpy grouchy guy that is easily irritated by other people. Have fun in that corner with people like Ebenezer Scrooge, Mr. Potter, Walter Matthau, WILLS POWERS, and every other old grump who keeps baseballs accidentally hit into his yard.

You are welcome to visit me in the Fonzie corner anytime you want.

Don't like the Fonzie corner...can't figure out why he feels the need to advertise his coolness by wearing the leather jacket.

garhkal
06-15-2014, 04:27 AM
Yeah, right. Tell someone they can't go and you'll be labeled as homophobic, whether there is mission impact or not.

Exactly. Just like this cop in Utah, who cause of his religious beliefs asked to be reassigned to a "Less public spot" in a gay pride parade from where he was initially assigned (the lead car) got suspended cause people raised heck about it.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/wireStory/cop-refuses-work-gay-pride-parade-utah-24041933

http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/utah-cop-suspended-after-requesting-less-conspicuous-job-at-gay-pride-parad?utm_source=feedburner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+LifesitenewscomLatestHeadline s+%28LifeSiteNews.com+Latest+Headlines%29


You are right, having a 5k doesn't really do much to move forward the cause of a special interest.

Colored ribbons on the other hand work wonders, so making sure everyone in the 5k is wearing a ribbon is crucial to success.

But the fact it is considered a special interest group, enough to have a specific "Special day" is that not against equality for all?


What is wrong with gay pride?

You do acknowledge that gay people exist, right?

They were in the military before DADT and now that DADT is gone, you want them to remain hidden?

Does the concept of freedom mean anything to you? Who gets to have freedom?

Would you care to give me a list of which groups get freedom and which groups have to keep silent and hide because it irritates you?

To me (and it seems to others) it is a big difference acknowledging that they exist, and 'showing that you support' their views. I care not if you are gay or straight. BUT don't expect me (or force me) to show i support your life style.



In the case of gays I would say their need to be vocal is directly linked to their being discriminated against for centuries.

As an atheist, I feel the need to be vocal because we have been vilified for centuries by irrational believers in mainstream society.

I have heard several "Black comedians" say that same sort of comment. That cause blacks were discriminated against for so long, they should get a free pass for so many years of being elevated above all others.


I can confirm. Hashing is fun. I ran with Sembach HHH a few times.

Anyway, everyone knows that these runs have nothing to do with the group, or heritage month, or whatever the fuck. These runs serve the sole purpose of providing a 1206/EPR bullet for someone who led/organized/coordinated a wing wide event. Boom! Instant E-8 or pretty soon E-7.

I knew plenty of people who 'volunteered' at those heritage events just so they DIDN'T get marked down in the "EO" category of their evals too.
As to hashing. I enjoyed it in Iraq when i ran with the Hashers in Falleujah.


Nope, no views of intolerance. Just views about what I personally find acceptable as it relates to my life.

I have a family member who is an alcoholic. I can tolerate being around him, and I care about him greatly and would do pretty much anything to protect him. That doesn't mean I think that his drinking is ok.


I have friends who have had abortions. I am tolerant of the choices they've made. They are my friends. That doesn't mean that I have to accept their actions as ok.

Big difference.

Exactly. Being gay is your choice. I tolerate that is what you are choosing to be. I have no issues with someone being gay if that is what they want. Just don't expect me to join in your "singing how happy you are being gay day" parade etc.




If you say "I tolerate them, but do not accept them." Are they treated differently from someone you tolerate and accept? In your personal or professional ife?

For me, accepting it/supporting it is different that tolerating it. I tolerate that friends of mine occasionally smoke pot, or (a few) do other drugs. BUT i won't accept it by supporting them doing it.

socal1200r
06-16-2014, 12:44 PM
And this is why they NEVER should've repealed DADT...

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
06-16-2014, 12:55 PM
And this is why they NEVER should've repealed DADT...

I too am completely against "special interest/category" months or events. It divides us as human beings. That said, in my opinion, NOT repealing DADT is no different than supporting the continuance of racial segregation. Gays don't choose to be gay any more than blacks choosing to be black.

PburghNo1
06-16-2014, 04:29 PM
Exactly. Being gay is your choice. I tolerate that is what you are choosing to be. I have no issues with someone being gay if that is what they want. Just don't expect me to join in your "singing how happy you are being gay day" parade etc.

And we've finally hit it...the fundamental difference. The belief that being gay is a choice versus being who you are. Whereas, I'm sure most of the LGBT community, as well as those who support their equal rights believe it's not a choice--rather the opposite, in fact.

To me, it's no different than ethnicity or race--it's not something chosen, instead it's inherent. Religion, which is most often used to vilify the LGBT community, is most certainly a choice. It's not about the 5K and it never was--it's about the unending desire to be outwardly vocal about disagreeing (and oftentimes discriminatory) with what's percieved as an immoral choice.

Rusty Jones
06-16-2014, 04:50 PM
Currently, science has only determined that it's only inherant in men. The jury is still out on women, but they're leaning toward it being a choice.

As of right now, the physical and chemical differences between homosexuals and heterosexual is found in men. This may be used to explain why lesbians are more accepted than gay men; it could be a subconscious thing that other humans are able to "pick up."

There was also a study shown, where four groups (straight men, straight women, gay men, lesbians) were each shown both gay porn and lesbian porn, all hooked up to a machine to detect sexual arousal.

Of all four groups, only gay men were aroused by gay porn.

When it came to lesbian porn, gay men were the only ones who were not aroused. In other words, even straight women were aroused by it.

Here's the thing... most of the LGBT is going to try to dispute this; mostly because lesbians feel that they need the "genetic" thing in order to be vindicated; and gay men will dispute this, because they feel that they're being singled out as being genetically defective.

I don't think that either is the case, but it makes for interesting discussion.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-16-2014, 05:11 PM
I don't see that it matters if there is a genetic predisposition to this or not. Although I suspect there is, why should it matter one way or another?

These are our brothers and sisters at arms; they have secured the right to serve with us openly. They can have 5K runs just like any other group.

We do not live under religious law in this country; if a person wants to change that, they have the right to try, but I'd like to ask them to go take a look at places that do live under religious law.

Have a peak at Saudi Arabi, Iran and perhaps the caliphate that ISIS wants to set up, they all share the view of homosexuality being abhorrent to the sight of The Lord.

No thanks!

I'd much rather go run a 5k with my gay and lesbian comrades than live under sharia law.

Rusty Jones
06-16-2014, 05:16 PM
I don't see that it matters if there is a genetic predisposition to this or not. Although I suspect there is, why should it matter one way or another?

These are our brothers and sisters at arms; they have secured the right to serve with us openly. They can have 5K runs just like any other group.

We do not live under religious law in this country; if a person wants to change that, they have the right to try, but I'd like to ask them to go take a look at places that do live under religious law.

Have a peak at Saudi Arabi, Iran and perhaps the caliphate that ISIS wants to set up, they all share the view of homosexuality being abhorrent to the sight of The Lord.

No thanks!

I'd much rather go run a 5k with my gay and lesbian comrades than live under sharia law.

You're preaching to the choir, dude.

The only reason the discovery of "gay genes" even happened, it seems, was because people involved thought it actually mattered in terms of people accepting gays.

garhkal
06-16-2014, 07:10 PM
I too am completely against "special interest/category" months or events. It divides us as human beings. That said, in my opinion, NOT repealing DADT is no different than supporting the continuance of racial segregation. Gays don't choose to be gay any more than blacks choosing to be black.

Well said flaps. My big gripe with all these 'special' group months (etc) is that it is NOT being inclusive, it is (imo) being more divisive.


And we've finally hit it...the fundamental difference. The belief that being gay is a choice versus being who you are. Whereas, I'm sure most of the LGBT community, as well as those who support their equal rights believe it's not a choice--rather the opposite, in fact.

To me, it's no different than ethnicity or race--it's not something chosen, instead it's inherent. Religion, which is most often used to vilify the LGBT community, is most certainly a choice. It's not about the 5K and it never was--it's about the unending desire to be outwardly vocal about disagreeing (and oftentimes discriminatory) with what's percieved as an immoral choice.

Then we will have to agree to disagree on that. I knew three girls at school who were straight as can be, then after trying 'for the other team', decided to change it up and become full on Lesbians. None of them said it was inherent in them that they were that way from the get go, they just decided to become it. Same with 4 of the gay folk i know.


Currently, science has only determined that it's only inherant in men. The jury is still out on women, but they're leaning toward it being a choice.
..snip..
When it came to lesbian porn, gay men were the only ones who were not aroused. In other words, even straight women were aroused by it.

Here's the thing... most of the LGBT is going to try to dispute this; mostly because lesbians feel that they need the "genetic" thing in order to be vindicated; and gay men will dispute this, because they feel that they're being singled out as being genetically defective.

I don't think that either is the case, but it makes for interesting discussion.

I heard that before, and most of those who heard of those studies try to debunk it.



They can have 5K runs just like any other group.

Can any group have one? Or only those 'special groups'?
Try having a single white male 'focused/sponsored' fun run and see where it gets you.

WILDJOKER5
06-17-2014, 12:19 PM
Or he lacks the conviction and courage to stand up for his views; however, misguided they might be. So, this is how you justify the left being intolerant of what they believe as others being intolerant of others? You are just standing on your convictions? You do know that not everyone thinks the same way, and therefore should not be expected to act or believe the same as you. You can be tolerant of those beliefs without trying to bash them over the head with your convictions. What I find the most amazing is that more people are willing to stand against Christians and their precieved intolerance towards gays, especially when they shine the light on a 100 or so members of WBC, but yet ignore those in the muslim community who behead and hang and stone sexually active women or homosexuals. But yet, only one is really a political opposition to their own beliefs. So I dont think it has much to do with convictions, just a way to smear those who have different political leanings in the easiest way possible.


Perhaps, he has the intelligence to realize that he would be labeled a social pariah if he became a full on gay basher? That actually might be the real basis for all those who grumble about how horrible political correctness is.Politically correct doesnt mean it is actually correct.


They know that they have been de-fanged and de-clawed in a PC environment.Greatest propaganda device ever created really, PC. It gets your opposition to be quiet when they are making good points that you have no real retort to the contrary.


Mostly, I think it is just sheer laziness. It is so much easier for them to grumble on a web forum than for them to nail their courage to the post.
Yes, using PC arguements is sheer laziness because it shuts down a conversation by shaming people from actually expressing their minds.

socal1200r
06-17-2014, 03:26 PM
I too am completely against "special interest/category" months or events. It divides us as human beings. That said, in my opinion, NOT repealing DADT is no different than supporting the continuance of racial segregation. Gays don't choose to be gay any more than blacks choosing to be black.

Throwing down the BS flag on that one. As others have said, this is one of the main sticking points. I believe being gay is a choice, so live with the consequences. One can't choose their skin color, ethnic origin, eye color, etc. But choosing to be a member of the LGBT mafia is a choice, and should bear the brunt of the consequences. The U.S. and other countries have lost their fricking minds when it comes to the LGBT mafia, and instead of keeping the closet slammed shut and locked, they're flinging it open and forcing the acceptance of that chosen aberrant lifestyle on the rest of us. Letting so-called transgender kids choose which bathroom to use? Really? Seriously? Newsflash for you Johnny or Susie, look at your plumbing, that's the bathroom you use, that's the sports teams you play on, etc. I'm fricking sick and tired of all the PC BS that's permeated our society, and can't wait for the day when I can get the hell out, box up those uniforms which I'm embarassed to wear, and give them the two-handed middle finger salute on my way out the door.

Measure Man
06-17-2014, 03:43 PM
Throwing down the BS flag on that one. As others have said, this is one of the main sticking points. I believe being gay is a choice, so live with the consequences.

What makes you believe it is a choice...is it because you feel you could go either way...or just because "god don't make mistakes?"...what is the basis for your belief?

Do you believe that at birth, men and women are emotionally, mentally, psycholigically the same and therefore can choose to act and feel masculine or feminine. Or do you believe that they are different due to biological differences...and that these differences can never ever be "mixed up"?


One can't choose their skin color, ethnic origin, eye color, etc.

ON this we all agree.


But choosing to be a member of the LGBT mafia is a choice, and should bear the brunt of the consequences.

Even if it is a choice...I'm not sure why there should be consequences.


The U.S. and other countries have lost their fricking minds when it comes to the LGBT mafia, and instead of keeping the closet slammed shut and locked, they're flinging it open and forcing the acceptance of that chosen aberrant lifestyle on the rest of us.

This goes back to the whole, "rights" of one person stopping at the nose of another."

For some reason, you seem to believe your have the right to not have people you don't like in your world...doesn't work that way.


Letting so-called transgender kids choose which bathroom to use? Really? Seriously? Newsflash for you Johnny or Susie, look at your plumbing, that's the bathroom you use, that's the sports teams you play on, etc.

I'm not convinced one way or another on the bathroom thing...


I'm fricking sick and tired of all the PC BS that's permeated our society, and can't wait for the day when I can get the hell out, box up those uniforms which I'm embarassed to wear, and give them the two-handed middle finger salute on my way out the door.

If PC BS means, NOT making people live in a closet in shame...then give me PC.

Good luck once you leave hte military and join a society that isn't PC...LOL. Why don't you just volunteer to get out now if you are embarassed to wear the uniform?

Smeghead
06-17-2014, 04:51 PM
Throwing down the BS flag on that one. As others have said, this is one of the main sticking points. I believe being gay is a choice, so live with the consequences. One can't choose their skin color, ethnic origin, eye color, etc. But choosing to be a member of the LGBT mafia is a choice, and should bear the brunt of the consequences. The U.S. and other countries have lost their fricking minds when it comes to the LGBT mafia, and instead of keeping the closet slammed shut and locked, they're flinging it open and forcing the acceptance of that chosen aberrant lifestyle on the rest of us. Letting so-called transgender kids choose which bathroom to use? Really? Seriously? Newsflash for you Johnny or Susie, look at your plumbing, that's the bathroom you use, that's the sports teams you play on, etc. I'm fricking sick and tired of all the PC BS that's permeated our society, and can't wait for the day when I can get the hell out, box up those uniforms which I'm embarassed to wear, and give them the two-handed middle finger salute on my way out the door.

19

Bet you're in church every Sunday just a praisin' ol' jesus too ain't ya?

If you're so embarrassed to wear the uniform, then man up an GTFO now. Air Force needs people to go. Why wait? Were you one of the ones spouting all that shit about "as soon as that Barry Obama repeals DADT I'm getting out. Not in my Air Force." Yet you're still here.

sandsjames
06-17-2014, 05:35 PM
Here's the thing. People are prohibited from expressing themselves politically, religiously, etc, while in military uniform. As long as it's done out of uniform, who cares? Once it starts happening in uniform, that's when it becomes an issue.

garhkal
06-17-2014, 08:49 PM
What makes you believe it is a choice...is it because you feel you could go either way...or just because "god don't make mistakes?"...what is the basis for your belief?

Do you believe that at birth, men and women are emotionally, mentally, psycholigically the same and therefore can choose to act and feel masculine or feminine. Or do you believe that they are different due to biological differences...and that these differences can never ever be "mixed up"?


Until i see irrevocable proof that there is a gene or other aspect of a gay/lesbian/transgendered person etc that locks them into being that way, i will see being that way as a choice.



This goes back to the whole, "rights" of one person stopping at the nose of another."

For some reason, you seem to believe your have the right to not have people you don't like in your world...doesn't work that way.

And what of telling say a baker, or church, that their right to freedom of expression/religion can be stepped over by forcing them to go against their beliefs to cater to Gays and Lesbians? Does that not go against "your rights stop when my nose begins"?



I'm not convinced one way or another on the bathroom thing...

But where is the line drawn? Is it just for kids, or adults? What of the rights of those who DO use the correct bathrooms/dressing rooms etc to NOT have to see someone of the opposite sex in there, just cause they feel that they are of that sex?


Here's the thing. People are prohibited from expressing themselves politically, religiously, etc, while in military uniform. As long as it's done out of uniform, who cares? Once it starts happening in uniform, that's when it becomes an issue.

Very true SJ. And since command PT is done in PT uniforms, technically (well to my pov) it should not be used to support a gay pride, or other special group event/run etc..

Measure Man
06-17-2014, 09:11 PM
Until i see irrevocable proof that there is a gene or other aspect of a gay/lesbian/transgendered person etc that locks them into being that way, i will see being that way as a choice.

Consider Klinefelter's Syndrome...men, who have XXY Chromosomes. This is a documented medical fact. As you know, typically we have only two XX for men, or XY for women. There are some folks who are XXY. You can read up on the symptoms. A trans person I know has this syndrome...accoring to him, he has also been a woman inside. As a child, he tended toward dolls and such, as an adolescent grew breasts...he was given "treatments" of testosterone throughout puberty because his body did not make any of his own...

Later in life, he came out as trans and began presenting as a woman...obviously, the decision to do so was a choice...but was his transgenderism really a choice.? Is he sinning? He has a documented medical third chromosome!

consider also, intersex people...they exist! People who have some combination of male and female genitalia...what was God's plan there? Are they sinning if they go with men or with women?

There are also people with penises and ovaries...vaginas and testicles...I mean, there is all kinds of different things out there that show this is not a black and white issue.

Okay...so, to answer my own previous question. I believe the emotional, psychological and attraction of men and women are biologically different. I don't know enough about genetics to know if that's all genes or some hormone soup or what...but, yes, I do believe that most men are biologically attracted to women and vice versa.

However, since I believe attraction is a biological process...I must therefore believe, much like the above cases of Klinefelter's and intersex...that biology sometimes mixes things up differently...and that someone phyisically male can have the emotional, psychological and attractive biological stuff of a woman...or just one of the three...or two out of three...or anything in between. I find it irreconcilable, considering the wide variation of physical characteristics, and yes, defects that people are born with, that one can acknowledge that sexual attraction is a biologically ingrained tendency, but that this biology never gets "mixed up"


And what of telling say a baker, or church, that their right to freedom of expression/religion can be stepped over by forcing them to go against their beliefs to cater to Gays and Lesbians? Does that not go against "your rights stop when my nose begins"?

Yes, this in an interesting case. I suppose in some sense it does go againt the "stop at my nose" thing.

That philosophy, in it's pure form, would mean a business owner could refuse service to blacks...and all the business owners in a town could...or they could refuse service to Jews, or interracial customers. Landlords could refuse to rent to them, etc.

Or, one could say, by choosing to do business in the public square (operate a business), you must follow the rules of that public square which are designed to ensure that everyone gets a fair shake... it's like making sure the gas pumps you use are checked to ensure the gallon they sell you is a publically recognized and agreed upon quantity of gas...


But where is the line drawn? Is it just for kids, or adults? What of the rights of those who DO use the correct bathrooms/dressing rooms etc to NOT have to see someone of the opposite sex in there, just cause they feel that they are of that sex?

I don't believe in a right to "not have to see someone"...as mentioned in ohter posts, there is no right not to be offended. Public decency notwithstanding.


Very true SJ. And since command PT is done in PT uniforms, technically (well to my pov) it should not be used to support a gay pride, or other special group event/run etc..

I'm not really in favor of using the uniform in these type of events, either.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
06-18-2014, 12:53 AM
Throwing down the BS flag on that one. As others have said, this is one of the main sticking points. I believe being gay is a choice, so live with the consequences. One can't choose their skin color, ethnic origin, eye color, etc. But choosing to be a member of the LGBT mafia is a choice, and should bear the brunt of the consequences. The U.S. and other countries have lost their fricking minds when it comes to the LGBT mafia, and instead of keeping the closet slammed shut and locked, they're flinging it open and forcing the acceptance of that chosen aberrant lifestyle on the rest of us. Letting so-called transgender kids choose which bathroom to use? Really? Seriously? Newsflash for you Johnny or Susie, look at your plumbing, that's the bathroom you use, that's the sports teams you play on, etc. I'm fricking sick and tired of all the PC BS that's permeated our society, and can't wait for the day when I can get the hell out, box up those uniforms which I'm embarassed to wear, and give them the two-handed middle finger salute on my way out the door.

Believing it's NOT a choice doesn't mean you have to "embrace" the lifestyle. I surely do not, that's for sure.

That being said, I can't ever recall a time in my 40+ years on this earth when I've actually made a conscious choice as to who I was attracted to, or who I fell in love with. Never, not once was this a "choice" for me...it just happened. So, based on my personal experience I don't believe anyone else, gay or straight, makes a choice about who they are attracted to or who they love. It's just not something you decide.

garhkal
06-18-2014, 06:20 AM
Consider Klinefelter's Syndrome...men, who have XXY Chromosomes. This is a documented medical fact. As you know, typically we have only two XX for men, or XY for women.

Never heard of that before, no matter the news source. Thanks for cluing me into it. I will have to read up more on this 'syndrome.



Yes, this in an interesting case. I suppose in some sense it does go againt the "stop at my nose" thing.

Exactly. According to these 2 sites
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2014/June/Denmark-Forces-Churches-to-Conduct-Gay-Marriages/
and
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2014/06/denmark-parliament-forces-state-lutheran-church-to-have-same-sex-marriages/
Denmark has already gone that far, mandating by law ALL churches need to conduct gay marriages.



Or, one could say, by choosing to do business in the public square (operate a business), you must follow the rules of that public square which are designed to ensure that everyone gets a fair shake... it's like making sure the gas pumps you use are checked to ensure the gallon they sell you is a publically recognized and agreed upon quantity of gas...

IMO the difference between the bakery and the church, is the latter is not a public business. Heck many are only kept afloat by donations of their congregations (and their tax free status).


I don't believe in a right to "not have to see someone"...as mentioned in ohter posts, there is no right not to be offended. Public decency notwithstanding.

Maybe not seeing someone was the wrong word to use, but i was trying to say "Having someone of the opposite sex walk in on you".
Though i will admit many times i have been out drinking/bar hopping/club going, ladies DO already seem to use the men's room if their's is full (or out of order) with little to no backlash from anyone (management included), but heaven forbid a guy goes into their restrooms (even if no lady was in there at the time).



I'm not really in favor of using the uniform in these type of events, either.

Well, we at least see eye to eye there then!

sandsjames
06-18-2014, 11:58 AM
Just got the flyer for the run. They are calling it a "diversity" run. AF PT gear will be worn, though morale color t-shirts are allowed, as long as they are "inclusive", not "exclusive". So basically, It's not going to be AF PT gear, even though that's how it's posted. And it's a "diversity" run for LGBT Pride month so whatever that means...

sandsjames
06-18-2014, 12:01 PM
Consider Klinefelter's Syndrome...men, who have XXY Chromosomes. This is a documented medical fact. As you know, typically we have only two XX for men, or XY for women. There are some folks who are XXY. You can read up on the symptoms. A trans person I know has this syndrome...accoring to him, he has also been a woman inside. As a child, he tended toward dolls and such, as an adolescent grew breasts...he was given "treatments" of testosterone throughout puberty because his body did not make any of his own...

Later in life, he came out as trans and began presenting as a woman...obviously, the decision to do so was a choice...but was his transgenderism really a choice.? Is he sinning? He has a documented medical third chromosome!

So it's a defect, almost like the 21st chromosome issues. It's natural, but not normal. Thanks for clarifying.

Measure Man
06-18-2014, 01:30 PM
Never heard of that before, no matter the news source. Thanks for cluing me into it. I will have to read up more on this 'syndrome.

Exactly. According to these 2 sites
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/world/2014/June/Denmark-Forces-Churches-to-Conduct-Gay-Marriages/
and
http://wdtprs.com/blog/2014/06/denmark-parliament-forces-state-lutheran-church-to-have-same-sex-marriages/
Denmark has already gone that far, mandating by law ALL churches need to conduct gay marriages.

IMO the difference between the bakery and the church, is the latter is not a public business. Heck many are only kept afloat by donations of their congregations (and their tax free status).

...I don't favor mandating churches to do anything. So, we agree again. That is a road too far, IMO. They should be free to practice their religion how the see fit. for example, many if not most rabbis will not marry a jew to a non-jew. You can find some that will...I was married by a Rabbi as my wife is jewish, but he was hard to find, and I have no problem with that.


Maybe not seeing someone was the wrong word to use, but i was trying to say "Having someone of the opposite sex walk in on you".
Though i will admit many times i have been out drinking/bar hopping/club going, ladies DO already seem to use the men's room if their's is full (or out of order) with little to no backlash from anyone (management included), but heaven forbid a guy goes into their restrooms (even if no lady was in there at the time).

As I said...I don't have a strong opinion on the bathroom thing either way.


Well, we at least see eye to eye there then!

More often than we thought!

Measure Man
06-18-2014, 01:37 PM
So it's a defect, almost like the 21st chromosome issues. It's natural, but not normal. Thanks for clarifying.

...you're welcome. I sense from your tone that you feel you've won some kind of point here, but I fail to see what it is.

I don't think anyone would argue that it is normal. I don't know if "defect" is the right word, but no need to be all politically correct about it I suppose...it is definitely a variation from the norm. We're just not smart enough yet to have gotten to the bottom of it.

socal1200r
06-18-2014, 01:48 PM
Just got the flyer for the run. They are calling it a "diversity" run. AF PT gear will be worn, though morale color t-shirts are allowed, as long as they are "inclusive", not "exclusive". So basically, It's not going to be AF PT gear, even though that's how it's posted. And it's a "diversity" run for LGBT Pride month so whatever that means...

OMG, when will this "diversity" / LGBT madness stop...

Rusty Jones
06-18-2014, 01:53 PM
OMG, when will this "diversity" / LGBT madness stop...

"Diversity" will go away when there is no longer a group within any protected class that enjoys unearned privileges.

And that's what it's all about. When you ignore diversity, you ignore your unearned privilegs... thus nothing gets done about them, and the status quo is maintained. This is exactly why white Christian male heterosexuals are most likely to scoff "diversity."

SomeRandomGuy
06-18-2014, 02:09 PM
"Diversity" will go away when there is no longer a group within any protected class that enjoys unearned privileges.

And that's what it's all about. When you ignore diversity, you ignore your unearned privilegs... thus nothing gets done about them, and the status quo is maintained. This is exactly why white Christian male heterosexuals are most likely to scoff "diversity."

I get the white part and the male part but what unearned benefits do christians get? I can't think of one single benefit that claiming to be a christian will get you in America. In fact just about anyone can claim to be a christian and no one ever questions it. If I'm not mistaken every single US President has claimed to be some form of christian even though most do not even attend church. What is the benefit of a title that anyone can claim and what benefit does it provide?

Rusty Jones
06-18-2014, 02:16 PM
I If I'm not mistaken every single US President has claimed to be some form of christian even though most do not even attend church.

Do you think that a non-Christian - one who is OPENLY non-Christian - will ever be elected president any time soon? If he's Muslim, he's associated with terrorism. If he's atheist, he has no morals. If he's Jewish, he's a part of this conspiracy of Jews ruling the world behind the scenes, now being made manifest.

garhkal
06-18-2014, 07:16 PM
Just got the flyer for the run. They are calling it a "diversity" run. AF PT gear will be worn, though morale color t-shirts are allowed, as long as they are "inclusive", not "exclusive". So basically, It's not going to be AF PT gear, even though that's how it's posted. And it's a "diversity" run for LGBT Pride month so whatever that means...

So who decides what colors are "Inclusive vs Excluding"?


More often than we thought!

On one of my RPG boards one of the people at odds with me in many instances on certain aspects of gaming (and films) does agree with me many a time in other situations.. So just like you we have good heated arguments for some situations, but see eye to eye on others.

OtisRNeedleman
06-18-2014, 09:41 PM
"Diversity" will go away when there is no longer a group within any protected class that enjoys unearned privileges.

And that's what it's all about. When you ignore diversity, you ignore your unearned privilegs... thus nothing gets done about them, and the status quo is maintained. This is exactly why white Christian male heterosexuals are most likely to scoff "diversity."

When I hear terms such as "unearned privilege" or, even worse, "check your privilege", my thought is "check your victimhood" and "you aren't my moral superior - I HAVE no moral superiors". Nobody does, in my opinion. Everything I got in life I earned. I worked for it. Period. Matter of fact, I have probably been discriminated against for certain jobs due to the fact that I am a white heterosexual man.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-19-2014, 12:04 AM
"Diversity" will go away when there is no longer a group within any protected class that enjoys unearned privileges.

And that's what it's all about. When you ignore diversity, you ignore your unearned privilegs... thus nothing gets done about them, and the status quo is maintained. This is exactly why white Christian male heterosexuals are most likely to scoff "diversity."

I'm a little curious about unearned privileges, what are they?

What would be an example of an unearned privilege for a poor white Christian male?

Is it anything like the unearned income tax credit?

sandsjames
06-19-2014, 12:13 AM
I'm a little curious about unearned privileges, what are they?

What would be an example of an unearned privilege for a poor white Christian male?

Is it anything like the unearned income tax credit?

I'm guessing it would be being white, and the privilege that comes along with that? All he did was be born. He didn't earn the white privilege. He was born into the redneck parents in the trailer park. Lucky bastard, didn't have to work for that privilege at all.

sandsjames
06-19-2014, 12:14 AM
Matter of fact, I have probably been discriminated against for certain jobs due to the fact that I am a white heterosexual man.What do you expect when you apply for a bouncer job at gay black club?

OtisRNeedleman
06-19-2014, 12:47 AM
What do you expect when you apply for a bouncer job at gay black club?

Yeah, if only it were so simple...try being number one on the eligible list for a county government job and meeting the interview panel...knew there was no chance. Has happened more than once. Now I no longer waste time applying for county government jobs.

Stalwart
06-19-2014, 01:21 AM
"Diversity" will go away when there is no longer a group within any protected class that enjoys unearned privileges.

And that's what it's all about. When you ignore diversity, you ignore your unearned privilegs... thus nothing gets done about them, and the status quo is maintained. This is exactly why white Christian male heterosexuals are most likely to scoff "diversity."

Yes, there are people born into better circumstances than other people. Some of these people are white, some are black, some are Asian some are something else. This is really a fact of life though and people who get overly upset about the circumstances they are born into have likely ignored that our society is one where you truly can, through hard work and effort … improve your lot in life. Very few will be the next Steve Jobs or Bill Gates, but you can definitely improve your situation if you really desire to.

We have a need for diversity efforts because we use discriminators in nearly everything … either consciously or subconsciously. There should not be any “protected class” or for that matter “protected gender” or “protected ethnicity”, and once people (of all types) can get past their efforts to support or back one over the other based on a discriminator such as race, gender, religion etc and back the most qualified people vice the most qualified female or the most qualified black business or whatever, then diversity will not even be a consideration, mission accomplished. I think diversity will go away when people live by the quote of Dr. Martin Luther King, “I have a dream that my four little children will one day live in a nation where they will not be judged by the color of their skin, but by the content of their character.”

garhkal
06-19-2014, 05:08 AM
I'm a little curious about unearned privileges, what are they?


in this i am with ya absinthe. What exactly defines an unearned privilege?

Capt Alfredo
06-19-2014, 11:22 PM
in this i am with ya absinthe. What exactly defines an unearned privilege?

Just to stick my foot in these waters, I think an unearned privilege is getting the benefit of the doubt from strangers without merit. For example, you walk into the lawyer's office and you automatically think the white male is the lawyer and the "other" is the help. Or when La Migra doesn't hassle you at Home Depot because you aren't the one speaking Spanish. That sort of thing.

sandsjames
06-20-2014, 01:48 AM
Just to stick my foot in these waters, I think an unearned privilege is getting the benefit of the doubt from strangers without merit. For example, you walk into the lawyer's office and you automatically think the white male is the lawyer and the "other" is the help. Or when La Migra doesn't hassle you at Home Depot because you aren't the one speaking Spanish. That sort of thing.Who's "you"?

Absinthe Anecdote
06-20-2014, 02:24 AM
Just to stick my foot in these waters, I think an unearned privilege is getting the benefit of the doubt from strangers without merit. For example, you walk into the lawyer's office and you automatically think the white male is the lawyer and the "other" is the help. Or when La Migra doesn't hassle you at Home Depot because you aren't the one speaking Spanish. That sort of thing.

That doesn't sound like a very beneficial privilege, I'm disappointed.

garhkal
06-20-2014, 05:27 AM
Just to stick my foot in these waters, I think an unearned privilege is getting the benefit of the doubt from strangers without merit. For example, you walk into the lawyer's office and you automatically think the white male is the lawyer and the "other" is the help. Or when La Migra doesn't hassle you at Home Depot because you aren't the one speaking Spanish. That sort of thing.

Fare enough. I have seen that before. Heck today, we had some old couple (i'd say mid 70s-80s both) look at the house for rent next door. They asked about the # of blacks in our neighborhood, and though there are many, its only the one house 4 doors down where a recent shooting occurred, that i have ever seen any issues with.

sandsjames
06-20-2014, 11:21 AM
Fare enough. I have seen that before. Heck today, we had some old couple (i'd say mid 70s-80s both) look at the house for rent next door. They asked about the # of blacks in our neighborhood, and though there are many, its only the one house 4 doors down where a recent shooting occurred, that i have ever seen any issues with.

It just depends on the situation. You ever go to a black night club? I promise you that one black guy in a club with all whites is not "noticed" as much as one white guy in a club with all blacks.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-20-2014, 12:02 PM
It just depends on the situation. You ever go to a black night club? I promise you that one black guy in a club with all whites is not "noticed" as much as one white guy in a club with all blacks.

How could you possibly promise such a thing?

After reading your posts for the last couple of years, I am going to say with confidence that you aren't much of a nightclub goer.

Plus, what point are you trying to illustrate?

You didn't develop your premise very well; go back to the drawing board, little buddy. You are sounding too much like garkhal with that statement and I'm embarrassed for you.

Try explaining that again, we will wait on you.

sandsjames
06-20-2014, 12:18 PM
How could you possibly promise such a thing?

After reading your posts for the last couple of years, I am going to say with confidence that you aren't much of a nightclub goer.

Plus, what point are you trying to illustrate?

You didn't develop your premise very well; go back to the drawing board, little buddy. You are sounding too much like garkhal with that statement and I'm embarrassed for you.

Try explaining that again, we will wait on you.

It's simple. The point made was that there is a privilege just for being white and that somehow we couldn't possibly understand what it's like to be looked at and judged for not looking like everyone else around us. I was simply giving a counterpoint.

And, no, I'm not a club goer. But, in my younger days, I dabbled. My roomate and group of friends I hung out with were black. On the weekends I would go out with them to clubs. The look, and comments, I recieved just for being white were not subtle. Things like "They're even trying to take over our clubs" and "I guess we're going to have to find a new place that they don't come to" were not uncommon.

So, again, my point is that white privilege is only white privilege depending on the situation and surroundings.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-20-2014, 12:49 PM
It's simple. The point made was that there is a privilege just for being white and that somehow we couldn't possibly understand what it's like to be looked at and judged for not looking like everyone else around us. I was simply giving a counterpoint.

And, no, I'm not a club goer. But, in my younger days, I dabbled. My roomate and group of friends I hung out with were black. On the weekends I would go out with them to clubs. The look, and comments, I recieved just for being white were not subtle. Things like "They're even trying to take over our clubs" and "I guess we're going to have to find a new place that they don't come to" were not uncommon.

So, again, my point is that white privilege is only white privilege depending on the situation and surroundings.

Much better.

sandsjames
06-20-2014, 12:52 PM
Much better.Thank you...now I can go about my day without the guilt of thinking I didn't make things clear enough for you. Until then, it was going to be a bad Friday.

Absinthe Anecdote
06-20-2014, 01:21 PM
Thank you...now I can go about my day without the guilt of thinking I didn't make things clear enough for you. Until then, it was going to be a bad Friday.

Don't get all haughty with me. While you might have felt the slight sting of embarrassment when I admonished you for making a garkhal-esque post, I really helped you clarify your point.

Just a plain an simple "thank you" would have been more appropriate.

sandsjames
06-20-2014, 01:23 PM
Don't get all haughty with me. While you might have felt the slight sting of embarrassment when I admonished you for making a garkhal-esque post, I really helped you clarify your point.

Just a plain an simple "thank you" would have been more appropriate.

You're right. My bad. Thank you.

Measure Man
06-20-2014, 03:36 PM
So it's a defect, almost like the 21st chromosome issues. It's natural, but not normal. Thanks for clarifying.

Check this story out.

http://fox4kc.com/2014/06/20/six-fingered-family-cheers-for-sixth-world-cup-victory-in-brazil/

Different?: Yes

Natural?: Surely

Normal?: Certainly NOT

Defect?: I don't think so

BOSS302
06-20-2014, 06:44 PM
You're right. My bad. Thank you.

Damn, dude. Absinthe consistently dominates you. He's a silverback gorilla and you're his submissive mate.

SomeRandomGuy
06-20-2014, 06:48 PM
Update:

One unnamed base employee complained about the pride 5K and it was enough for a local paper to run a story saying that the event 'created controversy" (I wasn't the person who complained).

http://wdtn.com/2014/06/18/gay-pride-event-at-wright-patterson-air-force-base-sparks-controversy/


Sadly, the event for today has been postponed due to inclement weather. This clearly means God did not want this event to happen and he sent a thunderstorm.

http://wdtn.com/2014/06/20/wright-patt-pride-run-postponed/

sandsjames
06-20-2014, 07:43 PM
Damn, dude. Absinthe consistently dominates you. He's a silverback gorilla and you're his submissive mate.

He does, indeed. I do his bidding.

sandsjames
06-20-2014, 07:55 PM
Update:

One unnamed base employee complained about the pride 5K and it was enough for a local paper to run a story saying that the event 'created controversy" (I wasn't the person who complained).

http://wdtn.com/2014/06/18/gay-pride-event-at-wright-patterson-air-force-base-sparks-controversy/


Sadly, the event for today has been postponed due to inclement weather. This clearly means God did not want this event to happen and he sent a thunderstorm.

http://wdtn.com/2014/06/20/wright-patt-pride-run-postponed/

Love reading the comments. Stupidity for both sides, as always.

Though I still don't understand the need for a "month" or a "run" dedicated to and recognized for anything.

Glad to see these kind of events unite everyone...you know what would help unite??? Just be...that's it...just be who you are. Live your life. You don't have to hide it and you don't have to flaunt it. Until that happens, we will remain more divided than ever.

garhkal
06-20-2014, 08:17 PM
How could you possibly promise such a thing?

After reading your posts for the last couple of years, I am going to say with confidence that you aren't much of a nightclub goer.

Plus, what point are you trying to illustrate?

A token black guy in a white area is not as problematic as a token white guy in a black area. I think is what he was getting at.


Update:

One unnamed base employee complained about the pride 5K and it was enough for a local paper to run a story saying that the event 'created controversy" (I wasn't the person who complained).

Not surprising to me. The press always seem to get a little over the top in their descriptions of things. And just one person complaining, is not as headline worthy as 'created a controversy'..