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FatCat40
05-29-2014, 03:27 PM
Do you think soldiers who are victims of suicide should be memorialized the same as those who died in combat?

Rusty Jones
05-29-2014, 04:04 PM
Do you think soldiers who are victims of suicide should be memorialized the same as those who died in combat?

Are you trying to get a greater question that's not a no-brainer like this one?

Smeghead
05-29-2014, 04:04 PM
Depends if it can be proved what caused them to take that route. If it's a dorm rat who popped positive, is getting kicked out and his girlfriend dumped him, then no. But if we're talking someone who's been through so much shit in the AOR, comes home smashed and can't cope anymore, then I wouldn't disagree.

The hard part is defining it. Everybody has different reactions and different levels of what bothers them. I know I have some mild PTSD. Not from seeing blood, guts and friends blown to pieces, but from two tours of waiting for the next rocket to come in. Any loud bang make my heart jump out of my chest. The old term shell shock, is probably more appropriate than PTSD. Compared to what others have gone through and are daling with, then yeah I'm a pussy. But different people have different make ups and tolerance levels. I joined the Air force, not the Army or Marines. This is the branch my personality led me too. If I was a blood and guts kind of person I'd be in one of those branches.

But long rambling answe, yes. If the combat and after effects of combat caused the suicide.

sandsjames
05-29-2014, 04:14 PM
Do you think soldiers who are victims of suicide should be memorialized the same as those who died in combat?

I wouldn't call someone a "victim" of suicide. So I guess I believe that people who kill themselves should be memorialized the same way one would memorialize a murderer.

Rusty Jones
05-29-2014, 04:19 PM
I lost a friend in the mudslide in Washington a few months ago. He was still on active duty at the time.

So... if we give suicide victims that same honor, then wouldn't it stand to reason that we give ALL of those who died of reasons other than natural causes that honor too?

GeoDude
05-29-2014, 04:24 PM
Do you think soldiers who are victims of suicide should be memorialized the same as those who died in combat?

I have no idea what you're getting at here. If you mean they should be eligible for awards like a KIA might be - then obviously no.

But if you mean they should be penalized for committing suicide (like for example the family losing benefits) then obviously no.

Smeghead
05-29-2014, 04:53 PM
I have no idea what you're getting at here. If you mean they should be eligible for awards like a KIA might be - then obviously no.


Why obviously?

Rusty Jones
05-29-2014, 05:08 PM
Why obviously?

So if they survive their suicide attempt, do they get a Purple Heart? Hell, since they intended to sacrifice their lives - not merely risk, but actually attempted to sacrifice - it WOULD warrant a Medal of Honor if it happened in a combat zone, but stateside... it would warrant a Soldier's/Airman's/Navy and Marine Corps Medal.

See how ridiculous this can get?

Smeghead
05-29-2014, 05:23 PM
So if they survive their suicide attempt, do they get a Purple Heart? Hell, since they intended to sacrifice their lives - not merely risk, but actually attempted to sacrifice - it WOULD warrant a Medal of Honor if it happened in a combat zone, but stateside... it would warrant a Soldier's/Airman's/Navy and Marine Corps Medal.

See how ridiculous this can get?

Have you actually read the eligibility criteria for any of those medals?

I see what you're getting at. But we're in the same argument as to whether servicememebers should get the Purple Heart for PTSD. How do you determine it was the enemy activity that caused it? All I'm saying is if can be clearly traced and attrobuted to the combat environment then why not? But again, the problem is with the "clearly traced and attributed" part.

Rusty Jones
05-29-2014, 05:48 PM
Have you actually read the eligibility criteria for any of those medals?

Why are you questioning that? Did I say anything inaccurate with regards to getting those medals in the context of a hypothical scenario in which one could receive awards in a suicide situation?

Possibly the only grey area I see would be the Medal of Honor situation, since we'd have to trace that back to enemy activity. In other words, this gets even MORE ridiculous.


I see what you're getting at. But we're in the same argument as to whether servicememebers should get the Purple Heart for PTSD. How do you determine it was the enemy activity that caused it? All I'm saying is if can be clearly traced and attrobuted to the combat environment then why not? But again, the problem is with the "clearly traced and attributed" part.

I see we DON'T determine it. I say that the system isn't broke, so we don't need to fix it.

raider8169
05-29-2014, 06:00 PM
This is a touchy subject but at the end of the day when they kill themselves they made a choice, I see this as more closer to someone getting a DUI when they are an alcoholic, as that was a choice too. In war actions are most instict based on what your are trained on and other things.

It takes a lot of strenth for someone to come forward and admite they need help and to get that help. Those that do not just sit there and make the matters worse for themselves and in the end take the cowardly way out. I am sure there are things wrong to a point where they did was that they did but if they do not get help there is nothing anyone can do. Same with an alcoholic. Everyone see's horors in their lives, though I think we all have to admite some see things worse than others but they are still horrors. Each person acts differently.

If someone kills themselves we should note it and move on. They do not deserve the same treatment as actual heroes. Im not saying we should turn our backs on their families but we need to help them as they are who gets hurt out of all this. They should get benifiets for the family but not a hero's funeral. True hero's would never leave this world worse than when they were in it, and that means for the families they leave behind.

FatCat40
05-30-2014, 04:46 AM
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/07/17/AR2010071702692.html

The families of those who die of combat wounds or in noncombat accidents receive condolence letters from the president. The families of suicide victims do not. Should their families receive condolence letters from the President?

The Pentagon doesn't tell units how to mourn soldiers who commit suicide in combat, but it makes distinctions between suicides and other war deaths. Should this distinction be made?

Gen. Peter Chiarelli, the Army's vice chief of staff, recently told commanders to conduct the same memorial services for battlefield suicides as they would for other deaths. The order provoked controversy among some commanders, who argued that suicide was dishonorable. IS it dishonorable?

I saw something on the evening news earlier this week about suicided soldier's families now being awarded some type of lapel pin I think it was and I was just curious, hence this post.