PDA

View Full Version : Former STRATCOM DCOM NJP'd



Stalwart
05-06-2014, 09:51 AM
RADM Giardina was NJP'd for his involvement with a counterfiet casino chip incident in Iowa last year. He was fined $4,000.

I will say, part of me is disappointed in the adjudication, a big part of me understands that even an admiral at admiral's mast is limited in the punishment he can impose (I do not know if a show cause determination has been ordered ... ) And while RADM Giardina was 'only' found to have violated two articles, lying to NCIS (regardless of his otherwise excellent service) is entirely unacceptable.

He was reverted to RADM from VADM when he was relieved as the STRATCOM DCOM -- which is a chunk of pay as well, but still can request to retire as a VADM when he retires.


Navy Times: http://www.navytimes.com/article/20140505/NEWS/305050051/Former-nuke-officer-reprimanded-gambling-case

BURAWSKI
05-06-2014, 03:40 PM
Well it is obvious his career is over but it also seems like the punishment doesn't fit the crime. The charges are serious enough. This may not be an isolated incident, but a sign of some real problems within United States Nuclear Weapons Command and Control. But again, I sure hope I am wrong about that.

Gonzo432
05-07-2014, 02:09 AM
This is par for the course. An enlisted troop would have been crucified (or keel-hauled in this case) for anything even close to this. Hell, if this guy had another star he'd have had the Joint Chiefs flying top-cover like Kip Wilson.

ChiefB
05-07-2014, 07:52 AM
This, my nuclear brethren... is a total crock!

It is unbelievable, the absolute and unmitigated gall the Navy hierarchy is displaying here with a senior military member who allegedly commits acts of deceit, lying, gambling with stolen/counterfeit chips (he found them, allegedly) and failure to surrender (all violations of the PRP and UCMJ) and is subsequently presented with an LOR and fined a pittance of one months pay for "Conduct Unbecoming".

Now lets look at the responsibility this man was given by his country and command... Deputy Commander of ALL U.S. Nuclear Forces.
This was no young Lt. sitting in a nuclear silo or submarine or flying a strategic bomber... this was the 2nd in command of all those guys and gals in the whole nuclear arsenal of the most powerful nation on our earth. This man no one would now want to trust in any situation let alone continue to remain an Admiral in the most potent Navy on earth with continued authority inherent in his rank.

Let's now look at the disparity in the punishment meted out in this case along with what punishment was given "Air Force Maj. Gen. Michael Carey, who was commander of the land-based nuclear missile corps when he was relieved of duty last October after an alcohol-fueled episode in Russia last July" and allowed to retire as a one star. Some would say not much of a disparity but as the report noted he was "allowed to retire", albeit at a reduced rank.

So now lets look at what punishment we would expect if a Navy Master Chief or an AF Chief or Army CSM was guilty of the same or similar offenses. Would it be NJP? What? An LOR? A fine? Or, would it be a full blown courts martial with jail time, reduction to lowest rank, forfeiture of all pay and allowances and a BCD and complete and utter humiliation of the individual and family? Or what...?

Now, what will the AF and Navy mete out in punishment for the Nuclear Launch Officers who cheated on exams and used/possessed drugs and compromised security and the Navy SNCOs caught up in the Nuc instructor cheating fiasco? Any guesses? Will it be an LOR and fine? Less? More?

The precedent has been set... those with way more authority, responsibility and rank, aka Flag officers, in PRP positions of immense power, authority, and responsibility that could ultimately result in Armageddon or survival of the free world were given NJP and a fine.

So will any of the workers on the line now be severely punished or will they be given NJP and a fine?

I should take bets on this one.

Absinthe Anecdote
05-07-2014, 10:58 AM
Report: U.S. nuclear general drank too much, misbehaved in Russia

(CNN) -- A U.S. general who oversaw nuclear weapons boozed, fraternized with "hot women" and disrespected his hosts during an official visit to Russia this year, an investigative report shows.

Maj. Gen. Michael Carey led the 20th Air Force responsible for three nuclear wings.
He was relieved of duty in October because of loss of confidence in his leadership, the Air Force said at the time without providing specific details.

But an Air Force Inspector General report released Thursday sheds more light into the case.
It details the events of a July trip to Moscow in which witnesses recalled Carey drinking too much.
During a layover in Switzerland, the report states, he bragged loudly about his position as commander of a nuclear force, saying he "saves the world from war every day."

And the shenanigans continued in Moscow, according to the report.

Alcohol, comments flow.

While there, Carey and an unidentified man walked to a nearby hotel to meet "two foreign national women." He returned to his Marriott hotel room in the wee hours of the morning.

As a result, Carey was 45 minutes late in joining a delegation to the Moscow suburb of Sergiyev Posad, according to the report. He attributed the tardiness to jet lag, and said his body clock was out of whack.

During a lunch banquet later, he downed more alcohol and talked about Syria and Edward Snowden, according to the report.

Though the report did not reveal details on his talks, it said his Russian hosts were not amused by his comments.

Russia granted Snowden, a former NSA contractor who released intelligence secrets, temporary asylum this year. It is also a major ally of Syria.

'Very embarrassing' fist bump

In addition, Carey announced he'd "met two hot women the night before," and continually interrupted a monastery guide during a tour, the report said, his speech slurred the entire time.
"At one point, he tried to give her (the guide) a fist bump," the report said, citing a witness. "She had no idea what he was trying to do. It was again, very, very embarrassing."
The names of the witnesses are redacted in the report.

During dinner at a Mexican restaurant, he drank more alcohol and wanted to perform with the live band, which wanted no part of it, the report said. He later left his delegation and joined the two women he'd met the night before at a different table.
Tardiness and interruptions.

Other inappropriate behavior included arriving at events late despite his Russian hosts' request to be on time, and interrupting their toasts to make his own commentary.
His conduct was unbecoming of an officer, the report said.

The inspector general's office began its investigation after multiple "reports of misbehavior" while Carey was traveling on business. He was reassigned a few weeks ago pending the outcome of the investigation.

Experts say someone in his position should not put himself in a situation where he can unintentionally give up sensitive information. There was no indication Carey's behavior compromised sensitive nuclear information or went beyond drinking, dancing and fraternizing with the women, officials said.

CNN's repeated attempts to reach Carey were unsuccessful.

Otherwise distinctive career

Though his behavior did not impact highly sensitive nuclear weapons operations, officials said, it is unbecoming for a job in such a critical position.

"This was an unfortunate incident. Maj. Gen. Carey has otherwise served the nation extremely well," said Gen William Shelton, who heads the Air Force Space Command. "After full consideration of all the available information, I determined the evidence supported taking further command action in addition to his previous removal from command of 20th Air Force."
He was transferred to the Air Force space operation.

"I am confident Maj. Gen. Carey will use his depth of space expertise to assist my command in providing foundational space and cyberspace capabilities to the warfighter," Shelton said.
Leading the intercontinental nuclear ballistic missile facilities and operations is "a position of great trust and responsibility," said Lt. Gen James Kowalski, head of the Air Force Global Strike Command. "Personal behavior is vital to that."

The U.S. delegation was in Russia for a bilateral presidential commission on military issues.


http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/20/us/michael-carey-investigative-report/

Since he was acting like an Ammo troop, or a CE troop, I think they should have sent him to Osan for the rest of his career.

He is retired now, I bet it won't be long till he washes up on the shores of Pattaya, Thailand to open a ladyboy bar; I hear that a lot of Ammo and CE troops do that when they retire.

BURAWSKI
05-07-2014, 01:17 PM
He is one of many that has what I term a golden parachute. He is one of the good ole boys, a real ring knocker. The junior personnel look at this and see the lack of real accountability and that in turn causes a detriment to morale. Seems to have been this way for a while. I use to call it different strokes for different folks. But if this is the way the Navy handles the accountability for the most senior of their commanders in charge and accountable for the Nuclear Power Program, than there is a real leadership crisis that will not be fixed easily. A fish rots from the top, and these problems with the Nuclear Power Program are emanating from the top leadership. I think this admiral should have been court-martialed at the very least, and held to the strictist standards that his job calls for.

Absinthe Anecdote
05-07-2014, 03:42 PM
He is one of many that has what I term a golden parachute. He is one of the good ole boys, a real ring knocker. The junior personnel look at this and see the lack of real accountability and that in turn causes a detriment to morale. Seems to have been this way for a while. I use to call it different strokes for different folks. But if this is the way the Navy handles the accountability for the most senior of their commanders in charge and accountable for the Nuclear Power Program, than there is a real leadership crisis that will not be fixed easily. A fish rots from the top, and these problems with the Nuclear Power Program are emanating from the top leadership. I think this admiral should have been court-martialed at the very least, and held to the strictist standards that his job calls for.

I think the idiom you were looking for is "a fish rots from the head." The way you say it kind of reminds me of Biff, from Back to the Future, with his screen door on a battleship. :)

Regardless, I agree with your premise. The perception of light disciplinary actions for the officer corps must be addressed.

Greater accountability should be tied with greater responsibility, that doesn't seem to be the case, and it has been that way for too long. Perhaps, always.

Stalwart
05-07-2014, 04:01 PM
I think this admiral should have been court-martialed at the very least, and held to the strictist standards that his job calls for.

The civilian authorities did not have enough to press formal charges, so a case at court-martial would have also been very hard to get a conviction. In that case, the best (only real) course of action is Admiral's Mast (Art. 15).

All that said, of what can be done at Admiral's Mast:

-Cannot reduce him in rank
-Cannot order dismissal from the service
-Can fine him (up to 1/2 months pay for 2 months)
-Can confine in quarters for 30 days
-Can Restrict to limits for 60 days
-Can Admonish / formally reprimand

It would still seem that the $4,000 fine (approx. 10 days pay or about 25% of what he could have been fined), and admonishment are pretty light.

I can find some solace in knowing he won't command again, and having been reduced from VADM to RADM in the long run is a very large ding to his pension. I have not read where a 'show cause' determination was ordered, but suspect it may have been, especially since now there is a terminal 2-star that the Navy will have to find something for him to do if he does not retire.


Regardless, I agree with your premise. The perception of light disciplinary actions for the officer corps must be addressed.

Greater accountability should be tied with greater responsibility, that doesn't seem to be the case, and it has been that way for too long. Perhaps, always.

I agree with you (both), it is troublesome even when the system ties hands on what legally can be done since officer misconduct is handled differently by Art 15 than it is for officers, the appearance of a lack of accountability is an issue. Two commands ago an officer received a DUI and there was definitely the perception that the command never did anything about it. There was some acknowledgement when the Ens (10-year prior / LDO) never became a LTjg and unbeknownst to most was that the CO had ordered a show cause determination and after 10 months the approval came back to separate the Ens. After the Ens left it came up at an all hands call and the CO -- a CAPT (O6) surprised many people when he stated the simple fact that he didn't have the authority to separate an officer and had to rely on the Navy bureaucracy to do the right thing -- which it did, albeit slowly.

Absinthe Anecdote
05-07-2014, 04:32 PM
The civilian authorities did not have enough to press formal charges, so a case at court-martial would have also been very hard to get a conviction. In that case, the best (only real) course of action is Admiral's Mast (Art. 15).

All that said, of what can be done at Admiral's Mast:

-Cannot reduce him in rank
-Cannot order dismissal from the service
-Can fine him (up to 1/2 months pay for 2 months)
-Can confine in quarters for 30 days
-Can Restrict to limits for 60 days
-Can Admonish / formally reprimand

It would still seem that the $4,000 fine (approx. 10 days pay or about 25% of what he could have been fined), and admonishment are pretty light.

I can find some solace in knowing he won't command again, and having been reduced from VADM to RADM in the long run is a very large ding to his pension. I have not read where a 'show cause' determination was ordered, but suspect it may have been, especially since now there is a terminal 2-star that the Navy will have to find something for him to do if he does not retire.



I agree with you (both), it is troublesome even when the system ties hands on what legally can be done since officer misconduct is handled differently by Art 15 than it is for officers, the appearance of a lack of accountability is an issue. Two commands ago an officer received a DUI and there was definitely the perception that the command never did anything about it. There was some acknowledgement when the Ens (10-year prior / LDO) never became a LTjg and unbeknownst to most was that the CO had ordered a show cause determination and after 10 months the approval came back to separate the Ens. After the Ens left it came up at an all hands call and the CO -- a CAPT (O6) surprised many people when he stated the simple fact that he didn't have the authority to separate an officer and had to rely on the Navy bureaucracy to do the right thing -- which it did, albeit slowly.

RADM Giardina's case is kind of strange as it isn't very clear what the nature of his involvement was in the fake chip scheme. I'm not sure I buy his, "I found these chips" explanation. Frankly, I get a little nervous at the thought of a GO who commands nuclear forces going anywhere near a casino.

I do hold the top echelon to a higher standard, as does the majority of the nation. The mere appearance of misconduct or inappropriate behavior should be avoided by every leader.

As far as officers getting light punishment, it is more than perception. They do in many cases; however, sometimes a lot goes unseen by the troops.

We had a cop squadron CC, get drunk and beat his wife, then get a DUI all in the same night. He was immediately removed as CC, but as a young airman, I never knew what became of him.

Does that mean he went unpunished? No, of course not, but your typical enlisted guy will buy into every rumor that comes down the pike about that CC getting a wrist slap.

BURAWSKI
11-23-2014, 03:22 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/gambling-nuke-commander-linked-fake-poker-chips-144601230.html



View photo
Found this article buried in the news feeds today. I think the Navy had more evidence then originally stated but decided to protect him and give him a lighter punishment. He wasn't just gambling, he was stealing. Had he not been a 3 star I am sure he probably would have been awarded a court-martial. It does say something about the state of the Navy's Nuclear Power Program.

SomeRandomGuy
11-24-2014, 02:27 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/gambling-nuke-commander-linked-fake-poker-chips-144601230.html



View photo
Found this article buried in the news feeds today. I think the Navy had more evidence then originally stated but decided to protect him and give him a lighter punishment. He wasn't just gambling, he was stealing. Had he not been a 3 star I am sure he probably would have been awarded a court-martial. It does say something about the state of the Navy's Nuclear Power Program.

I don't understand why the NCIS had jurisdiction of this case at all. The criminal acts were committed off base. Obviously NICS requested jurisdiction and it was given. If the casinos had evidence why didn't they press for charges in criminal court? This was very obviously theft. He should have been prosecuted. It's possible though that he got a worse punishment from the military than he would have in the civilian courts. I guess that could be the reason off base courts were willing to give up jurisdiction.

BURAWSKI
11-24-2014, 02:43 PM
I think he lost credibility when he stated that he does not consider the game of Poker gambling, or that he felt he had a gambling problem at all.

Measure Man
11-24-2014, 03:23 PM
I think he lost credibility when he stated that he does not consider the game of Poker gambling, or that he felt he had a gambling problem at all.

I think saying poker is not gambling is incorrect...of course it's gambling.

I've heard a lot of poker players claim it is not a game of chance, but rather a game of skill. That might have been what he was trying to say...some places make games of chance illegal, but games of skill are legal to bet on.

What would make a "gambling problem"? I'm not sure there is any indication that he had serious debts...maybe he was an excellent player and made money at it? Maybe he was planning a post-military career as a professional? Does playing a lot of poker make it a problem?

Granted...returned to casinos you have been kicked out of isn't a good sign...and the cigarette butt thing is a little creepy...

BURAWSKI
11-24-2014, 04:01 PM
I would define having a gambling problem when it comes to the point that the activity begins to have a negative affect on your life, much like other addictions like alcohol, drugs, food, etc.

Measure Man
11-24-2014, 04:11 PM
I would define having a gambling problem when it comes to the point that the activity begins to have a negative affect on your life, much like other addictions like alcohol, drugs, food, etc.

I agree. I'm not sure it was the gambling that caused his problem here...not all what evidence they have on him other than he used some fake chips that he claimed he found in the bathroom.

If he found a counterfeit $20 bill while at the gym and tried to spend it at the juice bar, no one would say he has an exercising problem.

I do agree, his getting kicked out of several casinos is an idicator of a problem...but we just don't have the details on why he was kicked out from the other ones.

The article did say there was not enough evidence to court martial him...of course, it could just be a cover for the fact that 3-stars generally don't get court martialed.

Crazy that he's still on active duty though.

SomeRandomGuy
11-24-2014, 06:35 PM
Here is a little more information on this story from FoxNews


In the statement, Giardina said he deeply regretted having not immediately surrendered to security officers the four chips which he said he found in a toilet stall at the Horseshoe. He said it was an "error of judgment" that he put three of the chips in play at a poker table, and said he was sorry that he subsequently lied in saying he had purchased them from a man in the bathroom.

"I should have either told the truth or remained silent instead of lying about the events when questioned" by an Iowa state investigator on June 18, 2013, he wrote. That was two days after he played the fake chips and casino officials determined they were counterfeits.




Doubts about the DNA evidence are summarized in an email exchange between a Giardina lawyer and an examiner at the Army laboratory that tested the DNA. In the emails obtained Sunday by the AP, the examiner affirmed to the lawyer that while the "major contributor" of the DNA found on the underside of the adhesive sticker that had been affixed by the counterfeiter was Giardina's, this did not necessarily mean he had touched the adhesive.

The examiner indicated it was possible that the Giardina DNA had migrated onto the adhesive when an Iowa state investigator removed the sticker to confirm that the chip was phony. Giardina had handled the chip during the poker game, so his DNA would have been on the outside of the chip and possibly along the edges of the sticker.

The examiner said either explanation — that Giardina had, indeed, touched the underside of the sticker, or that his DNA had migrated to the sticker while others were handling the chip — was equally possible.


After reading this article I can see why NJP was used in lieu of a court martial. I'm not sure whether we can believe his story or not. I suppose his scenario also makes sense where someone leaves the chips in the bathroom on purpose and waits to see what happens when another person plays them.

I still don't believe him, but he seems to be able to raise "reasonable doubt" and I can now understand why he wasn't prsecuted by civilian authorities and why he was subsequently offered a "sweetheart deal"

Source for quotes: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2014/11/24/admiral-denies-role-in-counterfeiting-casino-chips/?intcmp=latestnews

Mjölnir
11-24-2014, 09:05 PM
/threads merged