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USN - Retired
04-11-2014, 02:08 PM
This girl. and yes...several of you called it.

Are you going to buy him a gift that is as valuable as the ring that he bought for you? Just askin'.

sandsjames
04-11-2014, 02:08 PM
Are you going to buy him a gift that is as valuable as the ring that he bought for you? Just askin'.

Oh dear god...please don't start with your female bashing anti marriage drivel.

USN - Retired
04-11-2014, 02:33 PM
Oh dear god...please don't start with your female bashing anti marriage drivel.

I'm not "female bashing". I just asked a question. Why does that question of mine bother you so much? Just askin'.

TJMAC77SP
04-11-2014, 03:58 PM
I'm not "female bashing". I just asked a question. Why does that question of mine bother you so much? Just askin'.

USN....don't be passive-aggressive. There is no overwhelming tradition of a bride giving the groom (to-be) a present concurrently with the engagement ring so it is reasonable that SJ would think you had an agenda in asking the question.

Let's just be happy for Shaken. She was dealt a couple of shitty cards recently and deserves to be happy.

To paraphrase AA when he is channeling Rodney King....Can't we all just get along?

Speaking of which, anyone know what horrendous mortal sin SJ committed to get banned again and did anyone make the trip to Banned Camp with him?

retiredAFcivvy
04-11-2014, 04:06 PM
USN....don't be passive-aggressive. There is no overwhelming tradition of a bride giving the groom (to-be) a present concurrently with the engagement ring so it is reasonable that SJ would think you had an agenda in asking the question.

Let's just be happy for Shaken. She was dealt a couple of shitty cards recently and deserves to be happy.

To paraphrase AA when he is channeling Rodney King....Can't we all just get along?

Speaking of which, anyone know what horrendous mortal sin SJ committed to get banned again and did anyone make the trip to Banned Camp with him?

I think Peter Dow.

USN - Retired
04-11-2014, 05:02 PM
USN....don't be passive-aggressive.

Why not? I like to rock the boat.


There is no overwhelming tradition of a bride giving the groom (to-be) a present concurrently with the engagement ring...

We all know the engagement tradition. The man spends many thousands of dollars on an engagement ring for the woman. The woman almost never reciprocates with a gift of similar value. That is the tradition and that tradition is very sexist. Have you ever noticed that women in general and feminist in particular hate all sexist traditions that are not beneficial to women, yet they never seem to complain about sexist traditions that are beneficial to women? It sounds like an example of hypocrisy to me. Do women want to end all sexism or just the sexism that is not beneficial to women? Just askin'.



Let's just be happy for Shaken. She was dealt a couple of shitty cards recently and deserves to be happy.

Everyone deserves to be happy. Do we all need to ignore a sexist tradition in order for her to be happy?


...so it is reasonable that SJ would think you had an agenda in asking the question.

Just because I have an "agenda" doesn't necessarily mean that my point is invalid.

I am not attacking Shaken1976 for accepting the engagement ring. That is the tradition. I am, however, questioning the tradition. I see nothing wrong with questioning that tradition, especially on an on-line forum.

TJMAC77SP
04-11-2014, 05:14 PM
Why not? I like to rock the boat.



We all know the engagement tradition. The man spends many thousands of dollars on an engagement ring for the woman. The woman almost never reciprocates with a gift of similar value. That is the tradition and that tradition is very sexist. Have you ever noticed that women in general and feminist in particular hate all sexist traditions that are not beneficial to women, yet they never seem to complain about sexist traditions that are beneficial to women? It sounds like an example of hypocrisy to me. Do women want to end all sexism or just the sexism that is not beneficial to women? Just askin'.




Everyone deserves to be happy. Do we all need to ignore a sexist tradition in order for her to be happy?



Just because I have an "agenda" doesn't necessarily mean that my point is invalid.

I am not attacking Shaken1976 for accepting the engagement ring. That is the tradition. I am, however, questioning the tradition. I see nothing wrong with questioning that tradition, especially on an on-line forum.


I get it and won't say your point is without merit but it does tend to attack Shaken even it that isn't your attempt.

USN - Retired
04-11-2014, 05:26 PM
I get it and won't say your point is without merit but it does tend to attack Shaken even it that isn't your attempt.

Then I would like to reiterate,... I am not attacking Shaken1976 for accepting the engagement ring; however, I am questioning the tradition. So Shaken,... what engagement present will be giving to your future hubby? My recommendation: buy him a new sports car. You both can enjoy that gift.

Absinthe Anecdote
04-11-2014, 06:16 PM
Who is to say which traditions are valid?

I like to look at things from a much larger perspective. One day, far far in the future, the super massive black hole at the center of our galaxy will gobble up whatever is left of our planet and all of our atoms will be compacted into a super dense black void with the left over material being belched out in the form of a gamma ray burst.

Not to worry, by the time that happens our species will be long extinct, having been taken out by a near-earth-object, or the super flu, or any of the other numerous cosmic wild cards that can destroy us at a moments notice.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I think I'll go take a walk to contemplate what I'll have for dinner tonight while listening to "Dust in the Wind."

Oh!

Congratulations @ Shaken

Measure Man
04-11-2014, 07:41 PM
Are you going to buy him a gift that is as valuable as the ring that he bought for you? Just askin'.

Her daddy pays for the wedding :-)

TJMAC77SP
04-11-2014, 07:57 PM
Her daddy pays for the wedding :-)

MM strikes again............

USN - Retired
04-11-2014, 08:36 PM
Her daddy pays for the wedding :-)

So,... the groom pays for the engagement ring for the bride....

And the bride's daddy pays for the wedding (unless they get married at city hall)....

And the bride does not pay for anything.

Feminists should be appalled at that sexist tradition, but they're not. Why aren't they appalled? Just askin'.

USN - Retired
04-11-2014, 08:43 PM
MM strikes again............

The only thing that MM did was send the bill for the wedding to the bride's daddy.

Measure Man
04-11-2014, 09:41 PM
So,... the groom pays for the engagement ring for the bride....

And the bride's daddy pays for the wedding (unless they get married at city hall)....

And the bride does not pay for anything.

Feminists should be appalled at that sexist tradition, but they're not. Why aren't they appalled? Just askin'.

I can't speak for feminists.

Absinthe Anecdote
04-11-2014, 10:45 PM
So,... the groom pays for the engagement ring for the bride....

And the bride's daddy pays for the wedding (unless they get married at city hall)....

And the bride does not pay for anything.

Feminists should be appalled at that sexist tradition, but they're not. Why aren't they appalled? Just askin'.

Since you can apparently read their minds, why don't you tell us?

Seriously, how do you know what they think on this issue?

BTW, as others have hinted, great way to rain on Shaken's parade.

USN - Retired
04-12-2014, 12:50 AM
Since you can apparently read their minds, why don't you tell us?

Seriously, how do you know what they think on this issue?


The subject has been discussed by feminists, and they have posted their thoughts on the internet. While a small number of feminist have questioned the idea of the "engagement ring" tradition and some are even opposed to the "engagement ring" tradition, the topic is obviously not one of their major issues. Feminists have a reputation of being very vocal about situations that they don't like. They're definitely not known for shyness. Since we rarely hear any complaints from the feminists about the "engagement ring" tradition, then it is safe to assume that they don't have a major problem with that tradition. Have you ever heard any complaints from the feminists about the "engagement ring" tradition?

Here are some interesting articles about the "engagement ring" tradition from the feminist perspective.

http://www.rolereboot.org/culture-and-politics/details/2013-02-lets-give-engagement-rings-new-meaning
http://www.swsl.org.uk/post/23101206136/canfeministswearengagementrings
http://thefeministmystique.blogspot.com/2012/10/a-feminist-wedding-my-engagement-ring.html


BTW, as others have hinted, great way to rain on Shaken's parade.

Me? Rain on Shaken's parade? How did I do that? Are we only supposed to post happy thoughts on this forum? Which question of mine on this thread was an unfair question? If you can't handle reality and tough questions, then you shouldn't log on to the internet.

While I do consider the "engagement ring" tradition to be an interesting subject to discuss, I strongly suspect that this subject is just too much for you to handle emotionally. You should go back to your TV and watch your Disney cartoon.

USN - Retired
04-12-2014, 01:08 AM
This topic reminds me of a song...

Cerberus
04-12-2014, 01:19 AM
Me? Rain on Shaken's parade? How did I do that?

Instead of just saying congratulations and having a moment of happy empathy for someone, you started this entire rant.




Are we only supposed to post happy thoughts on this forum? Which question of mine on this thread was an unfair question? If you can't handle reality and tough questions, then you shouldn't log on to the internet.

While I do consider the "engagement ring" tradition to be an interesting subject to discuss, I strongly suspect that this subject is just too much for you to handle emotionally. You should go back to your TV and watch your Disney cartoon.

Here's some tough reality for you to deal with. Your being intentionally insulting and asinine. Welcome to banned camp.

TJMAC77SP
04-12-2014, 04:09 AM
The subject has been discussed by feminists, and they have posted their thoughts on the internet. While a small number of feminist have questioned the idea of the "engagement ring" tradition and some are even opposed to the "engagement ring" tradition, the topic is obviously not one of their major issues. Feminists have a reputation of being very vocal about situations that they don't like. They're definitely not known for shyness. Since we rarely hear any complaints from the feminists about the "engagement ring" tradition, then it is safe to assume that they don't have a major problem with that tradition. Have you ever heard any complaints from the feminists about the "engagement ring" tradition?

Here are some interesting articles about the "engagement ring" tradition from the feminist perspective.

http://www.rolereboot.org/culture-and-politics/details/2013-02-lets-give-engagement-rings-new-meaning
http://www.swsl.org.uk/post/23101206136/canfeministswearengagementrings
http://thefeministmystique.blogspot.com/2012/10/a-feminist-wedding-my-engagement-ring.html



Me? Rain on Shaken's parade? How did I do that? Are we only supposed to post happy thoughts on this forum? Which question of mine on this thread was an unfair question? If you can't handle reality and tough questions, then you shouldn't log on to the internet.

While I do consider the "engagement ring" tradition to be an interesting subject to discuss, I strongly suspect that this subject is just too much for you to handle emotionally. You should go back to your TV and watch your Disney cartoon.

Good God Allmighty....................while I am sure USN has some serious issues with women in general what in the HELL did he get banned for?...............John Wayne's drunken words are repeating over and over in my mind.

ChiefB
04-12-2014, 05:42 AM
Instead of just saying congratulations and having a moment of happy empathy for someone, you started this entire rant.

Here's some tough reality for you to deal with. Your being intentionally insulting and asinine. Welcome to banned camp.

I thought the board was satisfactorily dealing with USN-Retired and although this venue may not have been the most appropriate for his discussion he could have been asked to move it to another. Instead he receives a public written tongue lashing and is accused of being "insulting and asinine" and is banned.

The guys and gals on these boards have thicker skin than you might surmise and can deal quite well with most problem posters. Preemptive strikes by moderators seem to be more the norm, lately and the forums are showing less and less participation by the most interesting, entertaining and informed of our community.

Additionally, since you have deemed it appropriate to berate suspected bad actors openly you might keep it in mind that we do not come to these threads to witness public moderator ridicule or demeaning of our contemporaries, the good, the bad or the asinine.

mikezulu1
04-12-2014, 07:15 PM
afforums dot com.....better content these days, better moderation. You can actually speak your mind there too.

Absinthe Anecdote
04-12-2014, 11:13 PM
afforums dot com.....better content these days, better moderation. You can actually speak your mind there too.

I didn't see any posts from 2014 over there.

EDIT:

Plenty of current stuff... I was looking in the wrong section...

Shaken1976
04-13-2014, 01:53 AM
Wow. I spend some time with my guy and come back to this.

So in order to address a few things.
1. I am not your typical female who demands anything. I did accept a ring. I also told him not to spend too much. I know he spent more than I would have liked.

2. Yes he will be getting a gift though not a sports car. That is a little out of my price range. I actually have no Ida what to get him as there isn't much he wants. Maybe Lakers tickets? Nerf bars for the truck? Rims?

3. We are paying for our own wedding. I wanted to keep it simple. But our parents are involved now.

4. Yes I have been dealt some crappy hands. So has he. He has his crap together. He has an awesome job. He treats us better than I could ever have imagined.

I am so happy. My ring doesn't have to be crazy expensive. He spoils the crap out of me and I do the same. But it isn't about money.

ChiefB
04-13-2014, 02:11 AM
Wow. I spend some time with my guy and come back to this.

So in order to address a few things.
1. I am not your typical female who demands anything. I did accept a ring. I also told him not to spend too much. I know he spent more than I would have liked.

2. Yes he will be getting a gift though not a sports car. That is a little out of my price range. I actually have no Ida what to get him as there isn't much he wants. Maybe Lakers tickets? Nerf bars for the truck? Rims?

3. We are paying for our own wedding. I wanted to keep it simple. But our parents are involved now.

4. Yes I have been dealt some crappy hands. So has he. He has his crap together. He has an awesome job. He treats us better than I could ever have imagined.

I am so happy. My ring doesn't have to be crazy expensive. He spoils the crap out of me and I do the same. But it isn't about money.

Congratulations and the best of luck to you both.

Absinthe Anecdote
04-13-2014, 02:25 AM
Shaken1976

You should not worry about what has been said in this thread; nor should you worry about how you choose to observe tradition in your marriage.

It seems to me, that the steadfast observance of tradition often causes much grief and anguish. Honor the tradition in your own way and don't look back.

I firmly believe that our strength as a species is our adaptability, and that we all too often limit our potential by clinging to the past.

Although our older generations hold knowledge of the past, we must never allow ourselves to be restricted by notions that are irrelevant to the present or future.

If you want to honor those that have gone before you, I can see no better way than by adapting to the ever-changing present.

In short, ceremony means little, and can largely be ignored. Be happy any enjoy your engagement and wedding how you see fit.

TJMAC77SP
04-13-2014, 03:46 AM
Shaken1976

You should not worry about what has been said in this thread; nor should you worry about how you choose to observe tradition in your marriage.

It seems to me, that the steadfast observance of tradition often causes much grief and anguish. Honor the tradition in your own way and don't look back.

I firmly believe that our strength as a species is our adaptability, and that we all too often limit our potential by clinging to the past.

Although our older generations hold knowledge of the past, we must never allow ourselves to be restricted by notions that are irrelevant to the present or future.

If you want to honor those that have gone before you, I can see no better way than by adapting to the ever-changing present.

In short, ceremony means little, and can largely be ignored. Be happy any enjoy your engagement and wedding how you see fit.

What he said except that by honoring the past we set an anchor point to the future. To continually change with the wind (such as the history of the USAF in the past 20 years) means that nothing become really important and that situational ethics can rule the day. It's a balancing act and as I believe AA's message states, do what you need to do to be happy and ignore the rest of us.

Absinthe Anecdote
04-13-2014, 04:13 AM
What he said except that by honoring the past we set an anchor point to the future. To continually change with the wind (such as the history of the USAF in the past 20 years) means that nothing become really important and that situational ethics can rule the day. It's a balancing act and as I believe AA's message states, do what you need to do to be happy and ignore the rest of us.

LOL!

Leave it to TJMAC77SP to detect my thinly veiled narrative on the course of AF policy since the end of the Cold War.

I support being adaptive, and I truly wish that young Shaken1976 is able to find balance and happiness in her personal affairs.

TJMAC77SP

Perhaps we need to create another thread that talks about embracing reality, vice clinging to the past?

retiredAFcivvy
04-13-2014, 04:47 AM
Wow. I spend some time with my guy and come back to this.

So in order to address a few things.
1. I am not your typical female who demands anything. I did accept a ring. I also told him not to spend too much. I know he spent more than I would have liked.

2. Yes he will be getting a gift though not a sports car. That is a little out of my price range. I actually have no Ida what to get him as there isn't much he wants. Maybe Lakers tickets? Nerf bars for the truck? Rims?

3. We are paying for our own wedding. I wanted to keep it simple. But our parents are involved now.

4. Yes I have been dealt some crappy hands. So has he. He has his crap together. He has an awesome job. He treats us better than I could ever have imagined.

I am so happy. My ring doesn't have to be crazy expensive. He spoils the crap out of me and I do the same. But it isn't about money.
Congrats Shaken and I think it's great your parents are involved!

Absinthe Anecdote
04-13-2014, 05:49 AM
Congrats Shaken and I think it's great your parents are involved!

No!

Pay much more attention to your children, yours and his, they have more at stake than your parents, or his do...

Focus on the future, not the past...

TJMAC77SP
04-13-2014, 01:34 PM
TJMAC77SP

Perhaps we need to create another thread that talks about embracing reality, vice clinging to the past?

Naaaaa, can sum it up here in one sentence......................Use objective descriptors and do neither to excess.

Vrake
04-13-2014, 02:13 PM
Shaken thanks for sharing your good news with us misguided forum types. As long as you and your guy are happy that's all truly matters!

Congrats and the best to you and yours!

Absinthe Anecdote
04-13-2014, 03:42 PM
Naaaaa, can sum it up here in one sentence......................Use objective descriptors and do neither to excess.

Maybe, but what you said about honoring the past kind of grinds my gears... You said that it sets an anchor point for the future, as if that is a good thing.

I see tradition as all too often being unhealthy and anchoring ourselves to practices that are irrelevant and out of step with our current knowledge and current needs.

One should learn from the past, but not try to live in it.

I'm not saying you do this, but it really pisses me off when I hear old timers trash talk the younger generation. They seem to forget that they too where once young, and that the older generation once had trouble understanding them.

Overall, tradition and the nostalgia it inspires are dangerous. I don't want to be anchored to anything that hinders me from coping with the present or future.

TJMAC77SP
04-13-2014, 03:47 PM
Maybe, but what you said about honoring the past kind of grinds my gears... You said that it sets an anchor point for the future, as if that is a good thing.

I see tradition as all too often being unhealthy and anchoring ourselves to practices that are irrelevant and out of step with our current knowledge and current needs.

One should learn from the past, but not try to live in it.

I'm not saying you do this, but it really pisses me off when I hear old timers trash talk the younger generation. They seem to forget that they too where once young, and that the older generation once had trouble understanding them.

Overall, tradition and the nostalgia it inspires are dangerous. I don't want to be anchored to anything that hinders me from coping with the present or future.

You are describing the far end of a spectrum. Bad thing..........a mirror of the other end. I think your second to last sentence couldn't be more wrong. Maybe reword it............"As viewed and practiced by some tradition and the nostalgia it inspires can be dangerous."

Absinthe Anecdote
04-13-2014, 03:59 PM
You are describing the far end of a spectrum. Bad thing..........a mirror of the other end. I think your second to last sentence couldn't be more wrong. Maybe reword it............"As viewed and practiced by some tradition and the nostalgia it inspires can be dangerous."

The more I think about it, the more I come to realize that tradition brings few positive things to the table. I have come to associate tradition with superstition and intolerance far more than enlightenment and growth.

TJMAC77SP
04-13-2014, 07:51 PM
The more I think about it, the more I come to realize that tradition brings few positive things to the table. I have come to associate tradition with superstition and intolerance far more than enlightenment and growth.

I am certainly getting a lot of use out of this little guy lately.............

3775

Shaken1976
04-14-2014, 05:17 PM
No!

Pay much more attention to your children, yours and his, they have more at stake than your parents, or his do...

Focus on the future, not the past...

The kids will be involved. As will our parents. It will be a family affair. Lots to do before August.

BENDER56
04-15-2014, 02:48 AM
Congrats, Shaken! Best wishes to you.

BENDER56
04-15-2014, 03:11 AM
First read this thread today. (It seems as though there are some earlier pages deleted?)

Anyway, I have no idea about any feminist objections to engagement rings, but I know the "tradition" of giving a diamond ring as an engagement promise was created out of whole cloth by the De Beers company back in the early 1900s.

Turns out most everything we believe about diamonds is not true. They're not rare at all -- De Beers pulls tons (literal tons) of them out their mines each year but they only release a fraction of them onto the market to keep the price artificially high.

As mentioned above, the diamond engagement ring tradition was made up by De Beers to create a market for their diamonds. They did this in the 1930s (via a NY ad agency) by planting in women's magazines stories of men surprising their girlfriends with diamond rings and by lending large diamond rings to celebrities to wear during public appearances.

Diamonds hold very little value because there's essentially no re-sale market for them. Multiple journalists have chronicled their attempts to re-sell diamonds onto the market. Retail jewelers usually refuse to buy them and if they do, they'll pay a fraction of the stone's appraised value. Wholesalers will buy them, but again, at a fraction of their supposed value. An appraiser may tell you your diamond ring is "worth" $5,000, but if the most anyone will give you for it is $500, then it's only worth $500. In fact, the "Diamonds are Forever" ad campaign was create by De Beers in the '50s specifically to discourage people from reselling their diamonds.

If you're interested, here's a good read on it: http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2006/12/the-diamond-myth/305491/

Mjölnir
04-15-2014, 03:57 AM
(It seems as though there are some earlier pages deleted.)

Nothing was deleted. The original thread was titled "guess who got a ring"; this thread was split from it to keep the discussion about engagement / marriage traditions separate from the thread Shaken1976 was using to announcing her engagement.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
04-15-2014, 12:44 PM
afforums dot com.....better content these days, better moderation. You can actually speak your mind there too.

But it's just an exclusive Enlisted Forum. How fun can that be?

Absinthe Anecdote
04-15-2014, 12:58 PM
But it's just an exclusive Enlisted Forum. How fun can that be?

As an officer, you can make it fun by promoting stereotypes about enlisted members. For example, you can imagine that all the enlisted aircrew members are typing with two fingers, and that they have spoons in the sleeve pockets of their flight suits.

Shaken1976
04-15-2014, 04:52 PM
So my question is this.... I have a ring...a beautiful one that I picked out. My soon to be husband will wear the wedding band I bought him but he doesn't wear any other jewelry. What types of gifts have you guys gotten from your wives on your wedding day? I have a few ideas. He loves his truck but the sound system in it is stock and pretty much sucks. However, that isn't something that will be around forever. Same goes with game systems and other electronics. He buys all the random stuff he wants.