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View Full Version : Article......IG: Academy informant's expulsion not tied to work with OSI



TJMAC77SP
03-21-2014, 12:57 AM
Is anyone else greatly troubled by these two statements and the slim possibility of any real criminal investigations being conducted involving the USAFA cadet wing in the future?

“Academy Superintendent Lt. Gen. Michelle Johnson announced in December she would personally oversee any use of the informant program “with my long term intent to eliminate the need for cadet Confidential Informants in the cadet wing.”

“The report, while acknowledging the controversy surrounding the cadet informant program, also defended it. OSI agents wouldn’t get any information at all from inside the cadet wing without cadet informants, it stated.”

Reminds me of the support provided by a former AF Times columnist, Harry Summers provided to a female navy officer who refused to provide a urine sample for drug screening because officer monitors were not provided. Summers believed that (upholding the memory of Chester Nimitz….I shit you not, he invoked Nimitz’s name) she should not even be tested and her word as an officer merely taken that she didn’t use illegal drugs.

Seems the old mindset remains with some. There certainly couldn’t be any criminal behavior within the cadet wing of the US Air Force Academy. By God, that’s just not possible. OSI has no need of informants there.

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EDIT: HEY MODERATORS................THE DASTERDLY EMBEDDED LINK WAS TO AN AIR FORCE TIMES ARTICLE............................REGODDAMNNEDICU LOUS !!

BRUWIN
03-21-2014, 01:08 AM
I believed that the whole AFA informant program was BS and was teaching officers mistrust right from the get go...but after hearing that I've changed my mind.

sandsjames
03-21-2014, 01:09 AM
I think that what it's saying is that she hopes, by using the current program properly, she can get rid of the need for it altogether by getting rid of all the problems.

I read it as a goal, which I'm sure she knows can never be achieved. But what's she supposed to say, really? We are preaching the goal of zero incidents. If that's the case, then she must sound optimistic in her statements.

Not sure she's saying that the cadets will ever be good enough for this to happen...just that it would be the ideal situation...

Chief_KO
03-21-2014, 02:54 AM
This is the same organization that took months and months (and $$ and $$) to decide what to replace the "Bring Me Men" quote from the student ramp...and after much consternation settled on the USAF Core Values...

Do the zoomies still track their female conquests via Chiquita Banana stickers inside their parade hats?

All the talk of budget cuts, sequestration, downsizing...not a peep on combing service academies...THAT would be a heavyweight, nuclear, MMA, WWE, steel-cage death match of truly Biblical proportions!!!!!

Chief_KO
03-21-2014, 02:56 AM
This is the same organization that took months and months (and $$ and $$) to decide what to replace the "Bring Me Men" quote from the student ramp...and after much consternation settled on the USAF Core Values...

Do the zoomies still track their female conquests via Chiquita Banana stickers inside their parade hats?

All the talk of budget cuts, sequestration, downsizing...not a peep on combing service academies...THAT would be a heavyweight, nuclear, MMA, WWE, steel-cage death match of truly Biblical proportions!!!!!

TJMAC77SP
03-21-2014, 03:23 AM
I think that what it's saying is that she hopes, by using the current program properly, she can get rid of the need for it altogether by getting rid of all the problems.

I read it as a goal, which I'm sure she knows can never be achieved. But what's she supposed to say, really? We are preaching the goal of zero incidents. If that's the case, then she must sound optimistic in her statements.

Not sure she's saying that the cadets will ever be good enough for this to happen...just that it would be the ideal situation...

I was a cop far too long to believe that a zero incident level will ever be reached. I don't believe crime is rampant or anything close but what the Supt has essentially said is that she feels it is within her job description to interfere with criminal investigations. Commanders are briefed on criminal investigations by OSI, they don't oversee them.

wxjumper
03-21-2014, 04:21 AM
Lieutenants that came out of the Academy are some of the most socially awkward people you will ever meet. They didn't have that "true" college experience so they didn't get to really let loose, learn from their mistakes, and mature (even if a little) through their college years like the rest of those that went to college. So you get these 2nd LTs fresh out of the Academy that are living on their own and are free for really the first time in their lives. Socially, they are about 4-5 years behind the LTs that came in through OTS or ROTC.

OtisRNeedleman
03-21-2014, 02:09 PM
Lieutenants that came out of the Academy are some of the most socially awkward people you will ever meet. They didn't have that "true" college experience so they didn't get to really let loose, learn from their mistakes, and mature (even if a little) through their college years like the rest of those that went to college. So you get these 2nd LTs fresh out of the Academy that are living on their own and are free for really the first time in their lives. Socially, they are about 4-5 years behind the LTs that came in through OTS or ROTC.

Yup, saw it all the time when training lieutenants to become SIGINT officers. The Academy grads were the least rounded compared to ROTC/OTS products.

BOSS302
03-21-2014, 04:25 PM
Lieutenants that came out of the Academy are some of the most socially awkward people you will ever meet. They didn't have that "true" college experience so they didn't get to really let loose, learn from their mistakes, and mature (even if a little) through their college years like the rest of those that went to college. So you get these 2nd LTs fresh out of the Academy that are living on their own and are free for really the first time in their lives. Socially, they are about 4-5 years behind the LTs that came in through OTS or ROTC.


Yup, saw it all the time when training lieutenants to become SIGINT officers. The Academy grads were the least rounded compared to ROTC/OTS products.

Female LTs fresh out of the USAFA are also very easy to pickings. I recall a female Academy 2LT at Robins who was oh so bold as to come to the dorms for some action.

DWWSWWD
03-21-2014, 08:41 PM
Bullshit. No organization should be exempt from any investigative or inspection agency that the rest of us are subject to. It would be like having a unit exempt from urinalysis because, "No one here smokes pot." I was actually part of a "special" unit that was exempt for a long time from AF inspections and fitness tests. It wasn't the right thing.

Chief_KO
03-21-2014, 09:41 PM
My first two assignments were to an organization that had a higher than normal history of marijuana use (early 80's). We were SAC and had mandatory 100% Operation GOLDEN FLOW every six months.
I too was in a "special" assignment that was exempt from a lot of normal AF stuff...the total (near total) lack of any AF (or military for that matter) structure was a bizarre situation, one that was ripe for abuse.

BRUWIN
03-21-2014, 11:24 PM
Lieutenants that came out of the Academy are some of the most socially awkward people you will ever meet.

I have met a lot of good ones...some I still keep in touch with now. I played hockey with a lot of ex-academy players in my younger days...they were a freakin scream on road trips....swinging from the chandeliers after every game. It was funny, it was not the enlisted getting rowdy...it was our younger O's. But they were all good guys.

DWWSWWD
03-22-2014, 01:40 AM
I too was in a "special" assignment that was exempt from a lot of normal AF stuff...the total (near total) lack of any AF (or military for that matter) structure was a bizarre situation, one that was ripe for abuse. We were selectively manned and always told we were the very best. It didn't leave any room for improvement or any desire to improve, though there was much room for it.

TomTom093
03-22-2014, 04:43 AM
This is the same organization that took months and months (and $$ and $$) to decide what to replace the "Bring Me Men" quote from the student ramp...and after much consternation settled on the USAF Core Values...

Do the zoomies still track their female conquests via Chiquita Banana stickers inside their parade hats?

All the talk of budget cuts, sequestration, downsizing...not a peep on combing service academies...THAT would be a heavyweight, nuclear, MMA, WWE, steel-cage death match of truly Biblical proportions!!!!!

Or do away with them entirely. Every good officer I know came through ROTC or OTS. The screw ups were Academy grads

OtisRNeedleman
03-22-2014, 05:44 AM
We were selectively manned and always told we were the very best. It didn't leave any room for improvement or any desire to improve, though there was much room for it.

My final assignment was in a selectively-manned unit. Air Force Element, Defense Language Institute. Enjoyed it. Mostly great folks. One interesting note - we only had three or four airmen in the unit, out of about 75 people. Everyone else was an NCO or officer. We kept an eye out for our airmen. And you knew everyone in the unit, even though we were spread out all over DLI.