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chrisaf4
03-18-2014, 11:25 PM
Anyone been notified yet?

Big Blue
03-19-2014, 12:18 AM
Haven't heard a peep yet. I happen to have a meeting where I will sit next to CC in morning, feel like just saying put me out of my misery if I didn't make it.

LogDog
03-19-2014, 01:32 AM
Good luck to everyone eligible.

BOSS302
03-19-2014, 02:27 PM
It's that time of the year again. The Eternal debate.

Does leadership know before others know?

Or do they not?

Some say "Yes."

Others say "No!"

I am of the belief that squadron CCs do not find out any earlier than the peasantry. However, the Wing/CC and other nobles in the ivory towers do know ahead of time.

What say you, peasants & freedmen alike?

DWWSWWD
03-19-2014, 02:34 PM
I got the word so it is out there. Before anyone asks, I don't have a list, just folks from my SRs PAS. Good luck.

sandsjames
03-19-2014, 04:40 PM
I got the word so it is out there. Before anyone asks, I don't have a list, just folks from my SRs PAS. Good luck.

Do you have the list? :no:

BISSBOSS
03-19-2014, 05:28 PM
It's that time of the year again. The Eternal debate.

Does leadership know before others know?

Or do they not?

Some say "Yes."

Others say "No!"

I am of the belief that squadron CCs do not find out any earlier than the peasantry. However, the Wing/CC and other nobles in the ivory towers do know ahead of time.

What say you, peasants & freedmen alike?


Speaking as a "Freedman", when I was on Active Duty and in the Shirt's Chair, there was a fairly big "hoo-ha" on base because the Wing and the Group got the notifications early and did not share with the unit CC's...

Odds are that the list(s) are on basees.

-BB-

LogDog
03-19-2014, 05:54 PM
Speaking as a "Freedman", when I was on Active Duty and in the Shirt's Chair, there was a fairly big "hoo-ha" on base because the Wing and the Group got the notifications early and did not share with the unit CC's...

Odds are that the list(s) are on basees.

-BB-
We had a retired Command Chief Master Sergeant on base who somehow got hold of the promotion list before people were notified they were on the list. This guy was active in the retiree activities on-base and was a bit of a pain in the ass trying to impose himself in programs that he didn't have any business in. The current base CCMSgt at that time did little to nothing curb the guy's enthusiasm so the retired CMSgt felt he had a free hand to do what he wanted. He came in early one morning to my shop and congratulated one of my troops for being on the TSgt promotion list. I knew the day before he was on the list and that the commander was going to come down and personally notify him so it really ticked me off this retired Chief did what he did. I fired off an email to the current CCMSgt informing him what the former CCMSgt did, and how and why it was improper of him to do it. I also cc'd our commander.

My commander, whom I had a good relationship with, emailed me back and thanked me for telling him what happened. The CCMSgt contacted my First Sergeant and asked for him and me to come see him. I was a SMSgt at the time and the First Sergeant was a MSgt. We went to his office and the CCMSgt chewed me out, somewhat nicely, for not keeping the problem of the former CCMSgt within the Top 3. I disagreed with him and told him the former CCMSgt usurped one of the few pleasant duties of a commander informing someone of their selection for promotion and that he, the current CCMSgt, knew of the former CCMSgt's overstepping his "authority" by inserting himself into too many active duty programs. The current CCMSgt didn't like my response but there was nothing he could do because he knew it was true so we ended it there. About an hour after we returned to our squadron, the First Sergeant called me to his office and when I arrived I was greeted by about 10 SNCO in our squadron who all congratulated me on what I did. That meant a lot to me because it verified I had done the right thing.

fufu
03-19-2014, 06:33 PM
All over Facebook already....seen two posted their line numbers.

Big Blue
03-19-2014, 07:59 PM
This GI got the nod this morning. The beer will taste delicious tonight :) Congrats to the others that made it!

Chief_KO
03-19-2014, 08:09 PM
We had a retired Command Chief Master Sergeant on base who somehow got hold of the promotion list before people were notified they were on the list. This guy was active in the retiree activities on-base and was a bit of a pain in the ass trying to impose himself in programs that he didn't have any business in. The current base CCMSgt at that time did little to nothing curb the guy's enthusiasm so the retired CMSgt felt he had a free hand to do what he wanted. He came in early one morning to my shop and congratulated one of my troops for being on the TSgt promotion list. I knew the day before he was on the list and that the commander was going to come down and personally notify him so it really ticked me off this retired Chief did what he did. I fired off an email to the current CCMSgt informing him what the former CCMSgt did, and how and why it was improper of him to do it. I also cc'd our commander.

My commander, whom I had a good relationship with, emailed me back and thanked me for telling him what happened. The CCMSgt contacted my First Sergeant and asked for him and me to come see him. I was a SMSgt at the time and the First Sergeant was a MSgt. We went to his office and the CCMSgt chewed me out, somewhat nicely, for not keeping the problem of the former CCMSgt within the Top 3. I disagreed with him and told him the former CCMSgt usurped one of the few pleasant duties of a commander informing someone of their selection for promotion and that he, the current CCMSgt, knew of the former CCMSgt's overstepping his "authority" by inserting himself into too many active duty programs. The current CCMSgt didn't like my response but there was nothing he could do because he knew it was true so we ended it there. About an hour after we returned to our squadron, the First Sergeant called me to his office and when I arrived I was greeted by about 10 SNCO in our squadron who all congratulated me on what I did. That meant a lot to me because it verified I had done the right thing.

Congrats on doing the right thing.

BTW, the official term of address for a command chief is "Chief" or "Chief Master Sergeant". "Command" is part of their duty position, not part of the term of address IAW AFI 36-2618 para 6.1.1.
But, we are probably all well familiar with the CCM who wishes to be addressed as command chief master sergeant

Chief_KO
03-19-2014, 08:16 PM
When I made Chief, my CC & CEM congratulated me at 1631 hours the day before official release (this was the first year of "no advance notification").
Well, the base Chiefs group had the list of names day prior and was working within themselves on the greeting/congrats tour and the party at the club (engrave coins, etc.). Well, a MAJCOM command chief (not the command of this base, nor the command (DRU) I was assigned too) had somehow heard that I had been notified early. He actually emailed my CEM to accuse him of notifying me before my CC had (which was blatantly not true). Plus this horse's a$$ was more the 2K miles away and was not even in the same command.
Later, when the MAJCOM chiefs orientation came, this MAJCOM chief wanted me to come to his MAJCOM/base rather than stay where I was and attend my "host command's" orientation (at no cost). He actually asked me to tell him what patches I wore on my BDUs. Years later I ran into another Chief with the same last name (we made it the same year). Seems that MAJCOM CCM had a hard-on for this guy for years and thought I was him...

Gonzo432
03-19-2014, 11:10 PM
Congrats to all the new SMSgts!

Hoo-huh???
03-20-2014, 08:00 AM
Congrats to all the new SMSgts!

Hell, I would just like to know something. Our base hasn't released anything at all.

BISSBOSS
03-20-2014, 12:27 PM
Here's the link...

https://gum-crm.csd.disa.mil/euf/assets/afpc/smsgt14.pdf

Enjoy!

-BB-

LogDog
03-20-2014, 05:21 PM
Congrats on doing the right thing.

BTW, the official term of address for a command chief is "Chief" or "Chief Master Sergeant". "Command" is part of their duty position, not part of the term of address IAW AFI 36-2618 para 6.1.1.
But, we are probably all well familiar with the CCM who wishes to be addressed as command chief master sergeant
I've been retired for 11 years and live in the San Diego area so I have little contact, other than this board, with AF people so some things may have changed. I referenced the Chiefs as Command Chief Master Sergeants to emphasis their position as well as to identify which Chief I was talking about. I always addressed them as "Chief."

DWWSWWD
03-20-2014, 05:40 PM
I've been retired for 11 years and live in the San Diego area so I have little contact, other than this board, with AF people so some things may have changed. I referenced the Chiefs as Command Chief Master Sergeants to emphasis their position as well as to identify which Chief I was talking about. I always addressed them as "Chief."

He's not busting your balls but knows that if the right/wrong person hears Command Chief Master Sergeant used as a term of address, it will become a thing. We don't need for that to be a thing. Seriously, you know the term of address that I like to use and gives me a guage of the guy pretty quick? Bill, Bob, Mike, Joe etc.

Chief_KO
03-20-2014, 05:48 PM
He's not busting your balls but knows that if the right/wrong person hears Command Chief Master Sergeant used as a term of address, it will become a thing. We don't need for that to be a thing. Seriously, you know the term of address that I like to use and gives me a guage of the guy pretty quick? Bill, Bob, Mike, Joe etc.

I am definitely not trying to bust LogDog's balls. But alas the term of address Command Chief Master Sergeant has started to leak its way in (no doubt fostered by someone wearing that additional star).
Before retiring I had to intercede on more than one occasion to correct an event script that was introducing "Chief x" as "Command Chief Master Sergeant X".

LogDog
03-20-2014, 06:05 PM
He's not busting your balls but knows that if the right/wrong person hears Command Chief Master Sergeant used as a term of address, it will become a thing. We don't need for that to be a thing. Seriously, you know the term of address that I like to use and gives me a guage of the guy pretty quick? Bill, Bob, Mike, Joe etc.
I didn't think Chief_KO was busting my balls. The term of address for the person occupying the position of Command Chief Master Sergeant is Chief.

sandsjames
03-20-2014, 06:27 PM
I am definitely not trying to bust LogDog's balls. But alas the term of address Command Chief Master Sergeant has started to leak its way in (no doubt fostered by someone wearing that additional star).
Before retiring I had to intercede on more than one occasion to correct an event script that was introducing "Chief x" as "Command Chief Master Sergeant X".

No chance that will happen. I mean, it's not like we walk around calling SMSgt's "Senior" or something.

DWWSWWD
03-20-2014, 07:48 PM
No chance that will happen. I mean, it's not like we walk around calling SMSgt's "Senior" or something.

Difference to me is that Senior is endearing and/or respectful. Command Chief Master Sergeant is an E-10 power play. Hopefully that makes sense. I've got to run to a Top 3 meeting. My average kill is two good idea fairies per meeting.

sandsjames
03-20-2014, 08:10 PM
Difference to me is that Senior is endearing and/or respectful. Command Chief Master Sergeant is an E-10 power play. Hopefully that makes sense. I've got to run to a Top 3 meeting. My average kill is two good idea fairies per meeting.

Endearing and respectful, but not proper...didn't think we were allowed to choose.

BRUWIN
03-20-2014, 08:41 PM
I am definitely not trying to bust LogDog's balls. But alas the term of address Command Chief Master Sergeant has started to leak its way in (no doubt fostered by someone wearing that additional star).
Before retiring I had to intercede on more than one occasion to correct an event script that was introducing "Chief x" as "Command Chief Master Sergeant X".

I always call them Command Chief Master Sergeant. I wouldn't think of addressing them any other way.

Chief_KO
03-20-2014, 08:45 PM
It took 25+ years for the rank of Chief Master Sergeant to receive the term of address "Chief". I seriously do not think (or honestly like) referring to Senior Master Sergeants as "Senior". I use this example as a "teaching moment"....
Let's say "Senior" is okay, so why not "Master"....how would it look for an African-American Airmen to address a Caucasian MSgt as "Master"...

Yes, I know we say Tech Sergeant and L.T.; but at a certain point you just need to draw the line (IMO).

Chief_KO
03-20-2014, 08:46 PM
I always call them Command Chief Master Sergeant. I wouldn't think of addressing them any other way.

I say "Your Royal Chiefness"

VCO
03-20-2014, 09:50 PM
It took 25+ years for the rank of Chief Master Sergeant to receive the term of address "Chief". I seriously do not think (or honestly like) referring to Senior Master Sergeants as "Senior". I use this example as a "teaching moment"....
Let's say "Senior" is okay, so why not "Master"....how would it look for an African-American Airmen to address a Caucasian MSgt as "Master"...

Yes, I know we say Tech Sergeant and L.T.; but at a certain point you just need to draw the line (IMO). Chief, I respectfully disagree. "Seniors" are rare -- 2%, they tend to stand out and be quite influential in a unit. I couldn't refer to a random MSgt as The Master even if I tried. People would be like, "Who?"

Measure Man
03-20-2014, 10:16 PM
It took 25+ years for the rank of Chief Master Sergeant to receive the term of address "Chief". I seriously do not think (or honestly like) referring to Senior Master Sergeants as "Senior". I use this example as a "teaching moment"....
Let's say "Senior" is okay, so why not "Master"....how would it look for an African-American Airmen to address a Caucasian MSgt as "Master"...

You answered your own question. Senior is okay, Master wouldn't be because of what you say....also because of any Airmen named Jeannie.


Yes, I know we say Tech Sergeant and L.T.; but at a certain point you just need to draw the line (IMO).

Yeah, draw it at Master if that's the one causing you strife.

This line of reasoning always perplexes me... we can't do X, because if we do X, then Y is next and Y is completely unacceptable. Uh, why not just stop before Y then?

sandsjames
03-20-2014, 10:26 PM
You answered your own question. Senior is okay, Master wouldn't be because of what you say....also because of any Airmen named Jeannie.



Yeah, draw it at Master if that's the one causing you strife.

This line of reasoning always perplexes me... we can't do X, because if we do X, then Y is next and Y is completely unacceptable. Uh, why not just stop before Y then?

Would be much simpler if they just changed the guidance. Tech Sgt, LT, and Senior are all extremely common and accepted. Just add them as proper terms of address and be done with it.

Otherwise, start enforcing the rules as they are...and if not, then stop worrying about other things that are not really important but are still enforced.

I don't care either way...and didn't while I was in. The thing that always bothered me, though, was constantly hearing that we don't get to pick and choose which rules we follow, then having blatant violations widely accepted.

Again, I have no problem with Tech, Senior, LT, etc...but then again I also had no problem with someone walking from the building to their car without a hand on, or someone with their hands in their pockets. However, the same people who are bitching about those things have no issues (and even support) the misuse of proper terms of address.

LogDog
03-20-2014, 10:28 PM
Difference to me is that Senior is endearing and/or respectful. Command Chief Master Sergeant is an E-10 power play. Hopefully that makes sense. I've got to run to a Top 3 meeting. My average kill is two good idea fairies per meeting.
I never saw being called "Senior" as being endearing and since "Senior Master Sergeant" or "Sergeant" was the proper term of address. Being called "Senior" could also be a term extended to a Senior Airman and I don't think too many SMSgts would want to share the title of "Senior."

BRUWIN
03-21-2014, 12:10 AM
This GI got the nod this morning. The beer will taste delicious tonight :) Congrats to the others that made it!

Congrats...you come across as a pretty level headed dude that will do the right thing.

BRUWIN
03-21-2014, 12:17 AM
I say "Your Royal Chiefness"

There are quite a few perfumed princes out there that would accept that....might even give you the priviledge of being their aide.

Ever see an E-9 CCM or service equivelent with an E-9 aide? I have...in Afghanistan at ISAF Hq. A USA CSM with a SGM aide. Weirdest arrangement I ever saw and dealing with them both was life lesson. They will never understand us AF Chiefs...at least they didn't this one. I had SSgt's and Navy PO's briefing them on mission and they thought they were way above that. They asked me why I wasn't briefing them and I replied "in the AF we are taught to let those doing the work brief you how it's really done rather than me reading from a slide telling you how it's supposed to be done." Had them scratching their heads.

imported_DannyJ
03-21-2014, 12:22 AM
There are quite a few perfumed princes out there that would accept that....might even give you the priviledge of being their aide.

Ever see an E-9 CCM or service equivelent with an E-9 aide? I have...in Afghanistan at ISAF Hq. A USA CSM with a SGM aide. Weirdest arrangement I ever saw.nd dealing with them both was life lesson. They will never understand us AF Chiefs...at least they didn't this one. I had SSgt's briefing them on mission and they thought they were way to above that. They asked me why I wasn't briefing them and I replied "in the AF we let those doing the work brief you how it's really done rather than me tell you how it's supposed to be done." Had them scratching their heads.

So who *****d off who?

BRUWIN
03-21-2014, 12:42 AM
So who *****d off who?

Serious...it was one of the weirdest things I saw there. I'm am sure the aide had some other duty title but essentially that was what he was.

Chief_KO
03-21-2014, 01:38 AM
I've seen CSM's have a driver...
I got the DV treatment once...got one of those special briefings, sitting at the head of the table, choice of beverage, name cards...made me very uncomfortable.

Chief_KO
03-21-2014, 01:43 AM
Starting tomorrow, I will address Airmen as follows:

AB: Basic, Amn: Airman, A1C: First, SrA: Junior Senior, SSgt: Staff, TSgt: Tech, MSgt: Master, SMSgt: Senior, CMSgt: Chief, Wing CCC: Your Majesty, NAF CCC: Your Excellency, MAJCOM CCC: The Grand Poobah. CMSAF: Doubt we'll cross paths

Airborne
03-21-2014, 02:29 AM
Would be much simpler if they just changed the guidance. Tech Sgt, LT, and Senior are all extremely common and accepted. Just add them as proper terms of address and be done with it.

Otherwise, start enforcing the rules as they are...and if not, then stop worrying about other things that are not really important but are still enforced.

I don't care either way...and didn't while I was in. The thing that always bothered me, though, was constantly hearing that we don't get to pick and choose which rules we follow, then having blatant violations widely accepted.

Again, I have no problem with Tech, Senior, LT, etc...but then again I also had no problem with someone walking from the building to their car without a hand on, or someone with their hands in their pockets. However, the same people who are bitching about those things have no issues (and even support) the misuse of proper terms of address.

Funny is you have those who dont like the term Senior (like the Chief above) but I would bet a paycheck he has used the term "LT" on more then one occasion and probably as a Chief. The term LT irks me to no end, but usually doesnt go anywhere since they are just shitty 22 year olds that still have breast milk on their breath but Seniors are crusty and we are endeared to them so we can call them Senior. Do Marines get assed up when they address their SNCOs and "Gunny", "Gunny S'arnt", or "Master Guns"? Or is it the same argument we have here? What about the fact that sergeant actually has the letter 'g' and they dont pronounce it?

Stalwart
03-21-2014, 02:48 AM
Do Marines get assed up when they address their SNCOs and "Gunny", "Gunny S'arnt", or "Master Guns"? Or is it the same argument we have here? What about the fact that sergeant actually has the letter 'g' and they dont pronounce it?

Not when I was in the Marines, I truly was glad the first time I was called "Gunny." Most Master Sergeants didn't mind being called "Top" either ... granted, I knew a couple Master Gunnery Sergeants who wanted to be addressed as such, not as "Master Guns" or "Master Gunny." Good rule of thumb back then, if the MSgt or MGySgt wanted to be called "Master Sergeant" or "Master Gunnery Sergeant", they earned it ... call them that ... but most didn't care.

sandsjames
03-21-2014, 09:32 AM
Funny is you have those who dont like the term Senior (like the Chief above) but I would bet a paycheck he has used the term "LT" on more then one occasion and probably as a Chief. The term LT irks me to no end, but usually doesnt go anywhere since they are just shitty 22 year olds that still have breast milk on their breath but Seniors are crusty and we are endeared to them so we can call them Senior. Do Marines get assed up when they address their SNCOs and "Gunny", "Gunny S'arnt", or "Master Guns"? Or is it the same argument we have here? What about the fact that sergeant actually has the letter 'g' and they dont pronounce it?

Like I said...I don't care either way. Just think that if everyone does it and it's accepted, they might as well make it a "proper" term of address. Not doing so just raises issues (or at least creates conversations like this one).

imported_AFKILO7
03-21-2014, 09:52 AM
I remember when I first joined this forum...this very discussion was going on then too. I have found that the term "Senior" is reserved for those Senior Master Sergeants who have earned the respect of those they influence. If I don't know/like you I will refer to you as Senior Master Sergeant. ever. single. time we speak. Generally in the cop world the term Senior is thrown around fairly consistently, therefore when you use the entire rank as a term of address you can gauge the morale within the unit. The worse case of butt hurt I've ever seen was during my last deployment. There was a Senior Master Sergeant there who was a complete douche nozzle and nobody called him "Senior", hell nobody called him Senior Master Sergeant, we all referred to him as Sergeant. He HATED it, so naturally once we found out everyone "respectfully" greeted him as "Sergeant."

Mcjohn1118
03-21-2014, 09:57 AM
Starting tomorrow, I will address Airmen as follows:

AB: Basic, Amn: Airman, A1C: First, SrA: Junior Senior, SSgt: Staff, TSgt: Tech, MSgt: Master, SMSgt: Senior, CMSgt: Chief, Wing CCC: Your Majesty, NAF CCC: Your Excellency, MAJCOM CCC: The Grand Poobah. CMSAF: Doubt we'll cross paths

True story - back in 2003, I was in Ops Support for a large SF unit at FE Warren. The Ops Supt was a hardass SMSgt but he was a hardass to everyone. One day he had an NCO call because, well, we as junior NCOs were effing up and not taking care of our airman, turning in crappy paperwork, etc. This cat then starts in on us and he gave us a lesson in Latin and what the ranks really meant. He asked in anyone knew what Staff Sergeant was in Latin. One dude answered because he heard this spiel before. Anyway, here are what the ranks mean in Latin:
SSgt - Dick
TSgt - A$$hole
MSgt - C*4ksucker
SMSgt - Motherf*cker
Chief - Hugger
His point in this was that we had to get our shit together and sometimes be a hardass with out junior folks to get stuff right. His point of the Chief = hugger was that they were usually management and gave out hugs all the time. It was quite comical at the time.

Gonzo432
03-21-2014, 01:16 PM
There are quite a few perfumed princes out there that would accept that....might even give you the priviledge of being their aide.

Ever see an E-9 CCM or service equivelent with an E-9 aide? I have...in Afghanistan at ISAF Hq. A USA CSM with a SGM aide. Weirdest arrangement I ever saw and dealing with them both was life lesson. They will never understand us AF Chiefs...at least they didn't this one. I had SSgt's and Navy PO's briefing them on mission and they thought they were way above that. They asked me why I wasn't briefing them and I replied "in the AF we are taught to let those doing the work brief you how it's really done rather than me reading from a slide telling you how it's supposed to be done." Had them scratching their heads.

You don't hear that phrase much anymore, at least not since Hack passed on.

LogDog
03-21-2014, 05:54 PM
Funny is you have those who dont like the term Senior (like the Chief above) but I would bet a paycheck he has used the term "LT" on more then one occasion and probably as a Chief. The term LT irks me to no end, but usually doesnt go anywhere since they are just shitty 22 year olds that still have breast milk on their breath but Seniors are crusty and we are endeared to them so we can call them Senior. Do Marines get assed up when they address their SNCOs and "Gunny", "Gunny S'arnt", or "Master Guns"? Or is it the same argument we have here? What about the fact that sergeant actually has the letter 'g' and they dont pronounce it?
I think the Lieutenants learn quick the difference between being called Lieutenant and LT by enlisted. Being Lieutenant is a formal address and acknowledges the difference in rank and authority. LT is an informal address representing acceptance by the enlisted personnel as one of their own or belonging to their group.

As for the pronunciation of "Sergeant," if you pronounce it the way it is spelled then it would be "Sargent." Per the Merriam-Webster dictionary, the pronunciation of "Sergeant" is "sär-jənt." In the American dialect, the first "e" is pronounced as an "a;" "g" is pronounced as a "j"; and the "a" is silent.

sandsjames
03-21-2014, 06:41 PM
I think the Lieutenants learn quick the difference between being called Lieutenant and LT by enlisted. Being Lieutenant is a formal address and acknowledges the difference in rank and authority. LT is an informal address representing acceptance by the enlisted personnel as one of their own or belonging to their group.

As for the pronunciation of "Sergeant," if you pronounce it the way it is spelled then it would be "Sargent." Per the Merriam-Webster dictionary, the pronunciation of "Sergeant" is "sär-jənt." In the American dialect, the first "e" is pronounced as an "a;" "g" is pronounced as a "j"; and the "a" is silent.

I think he was referring to them leaving the "G" (j sound) of all together, as in his post he spelled it "S'arnt"

sandsjames
03-21-2014, 06:44 PM
I don't support this guy one bit...not even a little...or agree with any of his actions. However, it's a shame that military members are so down on someone exercising a constitutional right. Was he a major douche bag? Yes. Do we (or you) fight so that people like him can be major douche bags? Yes. Him doing what he did is proof and validation that you, as a military member, are doing your job. Don't let shit like this piss you off. Look at the positive.

TJMAC77SP
03-21-2014, 07:17 PM
I remember when I first joined this forum...this very discussion was going on then too. I have found that the term "Senior" is reserved for those Senior Master Sergeants who have earned the respect of those they influence. If I don't know/like you I will refer to you as Senior Master Sergeant. ever. single. time we speak. Generally in the cop world the term Senior is thrown around fairly consistently, therefore when you use the entire rank as a term of address you can gauge the morale within the unit. The worse case of butt hurt I've ever seen was during my last deployment. There was a Senior Master Sergeant there who was a complete douche nozzle and nobody called him "Senior", hell nobody called him Senior Master Sergeant, we all referred to him as Sergeant. He HATED it, so naturally once we found out everyone "respectfully" greeted him as "Sergeant."

We have had this discussion before and I suppose my upbringing in the cops got me used to being addressed as Senior (and using it myself prior to that). I cringed when the AFI came out which specifically prohibited that (which most cops I know simply ignored). It made the CMSAF and continues to make every Chief who regurgitates the mantra (ever notice it is only Chiefs that take this hard line) look like a douche.

BRUWIN
03-21-2014, 10:26 PM
You don't hear that phrase much anymore, at least not since Hack passed on.

They still exist though.

BRUWIN
03-21-2014, 10:35 PM
I've seen CSM's have a driver...
I got the DV treatment once...got one of those special briefings, sitting at the head of the table, choice of beverage, name cards...made me very uncomfortable.

I walked into our Base Honor guard building once and when you first walk in there is a huge room they practice drill and funeral stuff in and all the offices are to the sides. So I walk in and about 20-25 people are doing various things. Some are around a coffin practicing funeral stuff. Others are sitting in chairs bsing. Anyways...someone sees me and yells "ROOOOOOM." And everybody stands...it scared the hell out of me so I stand stiff at parade rest because they are. I look at them, they look at me, I keep looking at them, they keep looking at me. Finally I said "So why we all standing here?" The supervisor comes out of one of the side offices and says it was for me and asks what could he do for me. I was laughing and felt real goofy.

Gonzo432
03-21-2014, 11:59 PM
They still exist though.

And they always will. The bad thing is that's who's running things now.

TJMAC77SP
03-22-2014, 01:10 AM
I walked into our Base Honor guard building once and when you first walk in there is a huge room they practice drill and funeral stuff in and all the offices are to the sides. So I walk in and about 20-25 people are doing various things. Some are around a coffin practicing funeral stuff. Others are sitting in chairs bsing. Anyways...someone sees me and yells "ROOOOOOM." And everybody stands...it scared the hell out of me so I stand stiff at parade rest because they are. I look at them, they look at me, I keep looking at them, they keep looking at me. Finally I said "So why we all standing here?" The supervisor comes out of one of the side offices and says it was for me and asks what could he do for me. I was laughing and felt real goofy.

I have had some pointed discussions with NCOs and ex NCOs about calling a room to attention for a Chief. Specifically when a unit's chief walks into a gathering of his/he unit (or what is now known as the CCM). Within the cops it was a common practice.

If you have ever seen the movie, Tank with James Garner that is the way it should be. You call 'Room/Squadron, etc' and announce the title as the Chief enters.

People who don't like that completely miss that it isn't about pumping the ego of the individual it is about esprit de corps and respect for that rank/position.

BRUWIN
03-22-2014, 01:22 AM
I have had some pointed discussions with NCOs and ex NCOs about calling a room to attention for a Chief. Specifically when a unit's chief walks into a gathering of his/he unit (or what is now known as the CCM). Within the cops it was a common practice.

If you have ever seen the movie, Tank with James Garner that is the way it should be. You call 'Room/Squadron, etc' and announce the title as the Chief enters.

People who don't like that completely miss that it isn't about pumping the ego of the individual it is about esprit de corps and respect for that rank/position.

Well don't get me wrong...i was laughing at myself for not "getting it" more than anything. I wasn't laughing at them for trying to be respectful. I will say that as a regular Chief's Group biaaatch...I did have a need to go there several times...but after that I would call and make sure it was late when most had gone home already.

sandsjames
03-22-2014, 11:35 AM
I have had some pointed discussions with NCOs and ex NCOs about calling a room to attention for a Chief. Specifically when a unit's chief walks into a gathering of his/he unit (or what is now known as the CCM). Within the cops it was a common practice.

If you have ever seen the movie, Tank with James Garner that is the way it should be. You call 'Room/Squadron, etc' and announce the title as the Chief enters.

People who don't like that completely miss that it isn't about pumping the ego of the individual it is about esprit de corps and respect for that rank/position.

For our students, when an instructor or a SNCO walks into the room, they simply say "standby", then they stand. We save the "ROOM" stuff for officers. That seems to avoid any "embarrassing" situations like you were talking about and distinguishes the Os from the Es, while still being respectful.

TJMAC77SP
03-22-2014, 04:08 PM
For our students, when an instructor or a SNCO walks into the room, they simply say "standby", then they stand. We save the "ROOM" stuff for officers. That seems to avoid any "embarrassing" situations like you were talking about and distinguishes the Os from the Es, while still being respectful.

Sounds reasonable. Another thing that works and is an old military tradition......order At Ease. I have been asked by troops why I use that to quiet down a group whether in formation or not. I simply replied it is nicer than yelling "Shut the Fuck Up"

fufu
03-24-2014, 02:26 AM
Odd question: Can the board see your previous yrs board scores?

VCO
03-24-2014, 08:47 AM
Odd question: Can the board see your previous yrs board scores?

No. If you look in PRDA in your "board" folder, you will see everything they can see. It should be labelled 14E8

fufu
03-24-2014, 02:52 PM
No. If you look in PRDA in your "board" folder, you will see everything they can see. It should be labelled 14E8

I figured. I was having a discussion with my Shirt last week. We were trying to figure out how board scores can flux so much. We couldn't come up with reasonable answers.

sandsjames
03-24-2014, 03:29 PM
I figured. I was having a discussion with my Shirt last week. We were trying to figure out how board scores can flux so much. We couldn't come up with reasonable answers.

And this shows how inconsistant the rating/board process is. If there were actually a standard, the scores would move very little. But when they can fluctuate 30-40 points year to year, up AND down, then something needs to be fixed.

It's a shame that someone can have their career decided based on nothing more than the everchanging "standards" (excellent oxymoron) of the individuals sitting on the board.

edit: To add to this, I'd say it gives the younger, newer SNCOs the advantage when it comes to the boards as they haven't had to deal with all the changing requirements over the years. For instance, someone who was in before the CCAF became the be all, end all, is going to look worse because it took them longer to get it (as it wasn't a "requirement) at the time whereas the younger, newer people have been in the current sytem for a larger percentage of their careers.

BENDER56
03-24-2014, 06:56 PM
For our students, when an instructor or a SNCO walks into the room, they simply say "standby", then they stand. We save the "ROOM" stuff for officers. That seems to avoid any "embarrassing" situations like you were talking about and distinguishes the Os from the Es, while still being respectful.

That's often customary for training squadrons but it isn't correct.

When calling an area to attention, the command of execution is "attention," usually pronounced, "ten-HUT." "Room" is a preparatory command. "Stand by" is either a supplementary command or an informational command -- I'm not sure which.

If people are going to do anything for the preparatory command of, "room," my guess is it should probably be coming to the position of parade rest.

Just sayin'.

BENDER56
03-24-2014, 07:00 PM
Here's the link...

https://gum-crm.csd.disa.mil/euf/assets/afpc/smsgt14.pdf

Enjoy!-BB-

Is it just me or does it seem like there are a boatload of 8Fs on the list. Did 1st Sgts get a higher quota this cycle?

BISSBOSS
03-24-2014, 07:03 PM
Is it just me or does it seem like there are a boatload of 8Fs on the list. Did 1st Sgts get a higher quota this cycle?


8F are probably the CLOSEST thing to the old "Total Airman" construct they have going right now... Besides - They have to do SOMETHING to make that career field more attractive! They've been threatening to "conscript" people for years now!

-BB-

BENDER56
03-24-2014, 07:06 PM
You don't hear that phrase much anymore, at least not since Hack passed on.

I miss Hack.

Back in the '80s, the AF Times had a similar tell-it-like-it-is commentator named Fred Reed. He was a staunch supporter of the enlisted corps and routinely pissed off the powers-that-be with his columns. Reading the letters to the editor from apoplectic officers complaining about something he wrote was greatly entertaining. They usually ended with, "... cancel my subscription."

sandsjames
03-24-2014, 07:17 PM
That's often customary for training squadrons but it isn't correct.

When calling an area to attention, the command of execution is "attention," usually pronounced, "ten-HUT." "Room" is a preparatory command. "Stand by" is either a supplementary command or an informational command -- I'm not sure which.

If people are going to do anything for the preparatory command of, "room," my guess is it should probably be coming to the position of parade rest.

Just sayin'.

I'm currently sitting behind another instructor (I am qualifying on a block of instruction). When the students see the instructor coming towards the classroom, they say "stand-by". When the instructor enters the room, they say "Room". Nothing follows "room", as they are at parade rest, which is all they are required to do for an enlisted or civilian instructor. So they are doing it as you described.

BENDER56
03-24-2014, 07:26 PM
I'm currently sitting behind another instructor (I am qualifying on a block of instruction). When the students see the instructor coming towards the classroom, they say "stand-by". When the instructor enters the room, they say "Room". Nothing follows "room", as they are at parade rest, which is all they are required to do for an enlisted or civilian instructor. So they are doing it as you described.

Ah. I did that ass-u-me thing and thought you were talking about students coming to attention. My bad.

sandsjames
03-24-2014, 07:27 PM
Ah. I did that ass-u-me thing and thought you were talking about students coming to attention. My bad.

No, it was my bad. I didn't properly explain it the first time...

Gonzo432
03-25-2014, 12:07 AM
I miss Hack.

Back in the '80s, the AF Times had a similar tell-it-like-it-is commentator named Fred Reed. He was a staunch supporter of the enlisted corps and routinely pissed of the powers-that-be with his columns. Reading the letters to the editor from apoplectic officers complaining about something he wrote was greatly entertaining. They usually ended with, "... cancel my subscription."

I remember Fred Reed, he wrote some great stuff. I met Hack at a book signing years ago. He was pretty much what you'd expect: low-key, but you could tell this guy had been there and back many times.

Measure Man
03-25-2014, 03:17 AM
the command of execution is "attention," usually pronounced, "ten-HUT." .

ten-HUT is Army.

Af is ten-SHUN

BENDER56
03-25-2014, 12:50 PM
ten-HUT is Army.

Af is ten-SHUN

AFM 36-2203, fig 2.2, shows a guy saying, "FLITE TENCH HUT." (Yeah, that's how they spelled "flight.")

BENDER56
03-25-2014, 12:57 PM
I remember Fred Reed, he wrote some great stuff. I met Hack at a book signing years ago. He was pretty much what you'd expect: low-key, but you could tell this guy had been there and back many times.

After I posted that comment I got curious and googled Fred Reed to see if he was still out there. Wow. He's not just out there, he's "out there." He's turned the rhetoric up to eleven. He's still an interesting read, though.

imported_UncommonSense
03-25-2014, 01:07 PM
ten-HUT is Army.

Af is ten-SHUN

According to Army FM 22-5, it is supposed to be "AH-TENN SHUHN." Refer to Figure 2-1 "Diagram of a Command"

sandsjames
03-25-2014, 01:55 PM
I love the fact that there is discrepancy on proper terms and commands from NCOs and above, even after all these years. True warriors. Guess y'all don't carry your little brown books like you're supposed to. Should there really be anyone in the military who doesn't know what commands to use?

:sidenote...we just had a Tech School graduation and the command of Attention was given, by the class leader, from the sitting position. HOO-RAH

imported_UncommonSense
03-25-2014, 02:10 PM
I love the fact that there is discrepancy on proper terms and commands from NCOs and above, even after all these years. True warriors. Guess y'all don't carry your little brown books like you're supposed to. Should there really be anyone in the military who doesn't know what commands to use?

:sidenote...we just had a Tech School graduation and the command of Attention was given, by the class leader, from the sitting position. HOO-RAH

That's living the chair force dream right there

Absinthe Anecdote
03-25-2014, 02:10 PM
AFM 36-2203, fig 2.2, shows a guy saying, "FLITE TENCH HUT." (Yeah, that's how they spelled "flight.")

That's exactly right, I was a Tech School Yellow Rope and that is exactly how I pronounced the command.

I loved marching the flight to and from class and I would always take the route with the most turns as possible so I could shout extra commands.

The flight didn't like taking the scenic route, but that didn't matter to me, as long as I got to shout loud commands, I was happy and that is what mattered.

More marching is what the Air Force needs.

SomeRandomGuy
03-25-2014, 03:19 PM
That's exactly right, I was a Tech School Yellow Rope and that is exactly how I pronounced the command.

I loved marching the flight to and from class and I would always take the route with the most turns as possible so I could shout extra commands.

The flight didn't like taking the scenic route, but that didn't matter to me, as long as I got to shout loud commands, I was happy and that is what mattered.

More marching is what the Air Force needs.

At Keesler they made us march from our schoolhouse to the chow hall. It was maybe 1000 yards away. We were allowed to form flights by class and the highest rankingw as in charge of commands. Lucky for me I came in as an A1C. During the march I would often call out ridiculous yet totally correct commands. If we marched by a pretty girl I might call out "EYES RIGHT!" Just so we could all get a quick look. Got a few 341s pulled for doing that. Still think I was in the right. If the command is valid and I'm in charge why can't I call it?

BENDER56
03-25-2014, 05:24 PM
At Keesler they made us march from our schoolhouse to the chow hall. It was maybe 1000 yards away. We were allowed to form flights by class and the highest rankingw as in charge of commands. Lucky for me I came in as an A1C. During the march I would often call out ridiculous yet totally correct commands. If we marched by a pretty girl I might call out "EYES RIGHT!" Just so we could all get a quick look. Got a few 341s pulled for doing that. Still think I was in the right. If the command is valid and I'm in charge why can't I call it?

My class's thing was, "Groucho March, Harch." We'd execute this on our way from class behind some unused old supply buildings on Sheppard. On the command, "Harch," we'd all ... walk like Groucho Marx. Sort of a low, long stride while pretending to flick ashes off an imaginary cigar held high in our right hand. Not sure where it came from. We didn't think anyone was ever in that area to see but word got back to our MTL (then STA) and we got a knock-it-off order but nothing else.

DWWSWWD
03-27-2014, 07:56 PM
I figured. I was having a discussion with my Shirt last week. We were trying to figure out how board scores can flux so much. We couldn't come up with reasonable answers.

Primarily because it is comprised of humans. Those humans are a different group of humans that looked at your package last year. That's all.

Chief_KO
03-27-2014, 07:59 PM
At Keesler they made us march from our schoolhouse to the chow hall. It was maybe 1000 yards away. We were allowed to form flights by class and the highest rankingw as in charge of commands. Lucky for me I came in as an A1C. During the march I would often call out ridiculous yet totally correct commands. If we marched by a pretty girl I might call out "EYES RIGHT!" Just so we could all get a quick look. Got a few 341s pulled for doing that. Still think I was in the right. If the command is valid and I'm in charge why can't I call it?

Just can't call a "Present, Arms"...someone might take it too far...:Eyecrazy:

Big Blue
03-27-2014, 10:50 PM
Ok Old Hats and current wearers, what was the biggest transition/adjustment you noticed when putting on Sr? Any difficulties trying to reach some of the Road folks near the end to keep them engaged or was it other issues, manpower, etc? Thx!

Ripcord
03-28-2014, 03:19 AM
Ok Old Hats and current wearers, what was the biggest transition/adjustment you noticed when putting on Sr? Any difficulties trying to reach some of the Road folks near the end to keep them engaged or was it other issues, manpower, etc? Thx!

The instant feeling of being "one of them" instead of one of the guys. It's hard to describe but basically it seems that people were less comfortable approaching me to talk once the stripe went on. I had to work harder to coax it out of them and convince them I'm not a threat.

DWWSWWD
03-28-2014, 03:27 AM
Ok Old Hats and current wearers, what was the biggest transition/adjustment you noticed when putting on Sr? Any difficulties trying to reach some of the Road folks near the end to keep them engaged or was it other issues, manpower, etc? Thx! See if this makes sense. I'm on leave and about 5 fingers into some Crown Royal. Do not change at all. The stripe came to you because of who you are and the change will come to you as well. People already have begun to treat you differently because you have differentiated yourself from them. Difficulties reaching Road folks? Yes, but those aren't the folks that deserve your efforts. Hold them accountable to the minimum standards because that's all you'll get from them. Efforts go toward motivating the folks that want to move forward with you. Good luck. It's a blast.

BUDJR8
03-28-2014, 06:17 AM
The instant feeling of being "one of them" instead of one of the guys. It's hard to describe but basically it seems that people were less comfortable approaching me to talk once the stripe went on. I had to work harder to coax it out of them and convince them I'm not a threat.

Couldn't agree more...seems like I had a lot of folks hesitant to talk, once the extra rocker went on and I moved to the "big house"...same guy just one more stripe...some don't see it that way.

BUDJR8
03-28-2014, 06:18 AM
See if this makes sense. I'm on leave and about 5 fingers into some Crown Royal. Do not change at all. The stripe came to you because of who you are and the change will come to you as well. People already have begun to treat you differently because you have differentiated yourself from them. Difficulties reaching Road folks? Yes, but those aren't the folks that deserve your efforts. Hold them accountable to the minimum standards because that's all you'll get from them. Efforts go toward motivating the folks that want to move forward with you. Good luck. It's a blast.

You're dead-on on the ROAD...only get what you can out of them...put stock in those that you know will excel and spend your time on molding them into our future great leaders.

bcoco14
03-28-2014, 06:57 AM
Ok Old Hats and current wearers, what was the biggest transition/adjustment you noticed when putting on Sr? Any difficulties trying to reach some of the Road folks near the end to keep them engaged or was it other issues, manpower, etc? Thx!

I’m not an old hat by any means, but I will say this.

Don’t lead from behind the desk. Here is a link to a lecture that I personally think need to be played at EVERY PME course that the AF offers. It’s about 45 min long but well worth your time. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ReRcHdeUG9Y

I don’t know you or your leadership style, but from what I have seen, you are now about your Senior stipe. To that I say, Good for you! Now what can you do for the people under you. It’s no longer about you. It’s not about making Chief. It’s not about the strat on your two removed EPRs from now. What can your do for your people who look to you for career guidance? What can you say to that A1C that has taken the wrong path to get him back on the right one? What can you do to take the unmotivated NCO that’s just hanging around for the paycheck and make them WANT to be part of this organization? That’s what matters.

We have enough careerists, we don’t need another one. Leaders are willing to sacrifice themselves for the good of their people, when warranted.

Are YOU willing to sacrifice yourself for a person? Are you willing to throw yourself on the sword even if you get nothing in return?

The ACTIONS to these questions are what will tell you if you are a true leader or not.

Mcjohn1118
03-28-2014, 09:51 AM
Ok Old Hats and current wearers, what was the biggest transition/adjustment you noticed when putting on Sr? Any difficulties trying to reach some of the Road folks near the end to keep them engaged or was it other issues, manpower, etc? Thx!

BB - My biggest hurdle was realizing that I was now the "the last stop". It's hard to explain but I'll try my best. In Security Forces, in my experience anyway, most MSgts are in positions where they can impact a lot of folks and a lot of Airmen do go to the MSgts for answers. However, as a MSgt, you always had that "ace" up your sleeve if you needed to get an answer or insight into a matter. That person was the Section Supt...the SMSgt. Depending on the unit, MSgts don't normally go to the Chief for day to day operational questions. BUT, ever since I made SMSgt, I am now the last-stop for 99% of the squadron. The only one's left are the Chief and Commander.

Gonzo432
03-28-2014, 10:46 AM
Ok Old Hats and current wearers, what was the biggest transition/adjustment you noticed when putting on Sr? Any difficulties trying to reach some of the Road folks near the end to keep them engaged or was it other issues, manpower, etc? Thx!

A lot of good comments on this one BB. I'll borrow a line from Joe Walsh, "Everybody's so different, I haven't changed."

Big Blue
03-29-2014, 07:18 PM
And that's why I love the Forum..great perspectives from all! I absolutely agree to not get chained to the desk, which can easily happen with all the taskers and emails, and be a visible leader. I can't stand Micro management and look foward to being out and about in a positive manner and arm folks with what they need not just checking up on them. The next few yrs are going to be touch and go for a lot of troops so I want to be there for them. Have heard the words, "it's not about you anymore" quite a bit recently so looking foward to giving back! Thx for replies so far.

Chief_KO
03-30-2014, 12:29 PM
I would say the one big difference is soooo many people asking if you were going for Chief. I don't remember any rank that as soon as you were selected, there was pressure (or expectation) that you would be working towards the next stripe. Kind of hard to explain, but I'm pretty sure everyone who has made SMSgt had the same experience.

When I made/put on SMSgt I was not assigned to an operational unit, I was in a DRU (AFOTEC). At the time we were going through a reorg from separate test teams into a more hybrid "operations" and "support" structure. There were two SMSgts, and as the ranking SMSgt (by two months), I was given the choice of which division I wanted to be the division chief. "Operations" had the mission and the most bodies, "Support" had finance, training, logistics, IT, etc. I chose support, for two reasons: 1) The Ops officer was a tool, 2) Making Chief was not the end-all/be-all for me.

There were quite a few folks (mostly the officers) that were surprised I chose support. Of course they don't truly understand the enlisted promotion system (duty title means everything to them, and nothing to us).

Long story short, both of the SMSgts who served as the ops division chief were severely hindered by the micro-managing ops officer (both retiring as SMSgts), while both support officers I worked for gave me free reign to establish & lead the division...so it looks like I made the right choice. I remember sitting at the staff meetings, I was free to voice my opinion or thought...couldn't say the same for my peer sitting next to me...

My advice: When given a choice or opportunity, make the decision that feels right for you. Don't buckle to what others think is right...listen to their inputs...but make your own decision.

Ripcord
03-30-2014, 05:04 PM
I would say the one big difference is soooo many people asking if you were going for Chief. I don't remember any rank that as soon as you were selected, there was pressure (or expectation) that you would be working towards the next stripe. Kind of hard to explain, but I'm pretty sure everyone who has made SMSgt had the same experience.

Yes. Very annoying. The only other time I was aware of something similar was when I got my line number for TSgt. Overnight I was not longer SSgt Ripcord I was now TSgt ripcord and they made sure I had all the responsibility of a TSgt with out the compensation. For SMSgt the expectation vibe I get from everybody seemed to be that you're a shoe in for Chief so you better act like one...especially if you made it "early" like I did. I just want to do something in the stripe I'm in first before you start talking to me about being a Chief. A SMSgt does not = Chief. There are good reasons for this.



2) Making Chief was not the end-all/be-all for me.

Ditto.

Big Blue
04-01-2014, 02:42 PM
Good posts so far. I always thought it was sad that a majority of people(my observation) act like when a SMSgt retires without making Chief it's as if it they were a failure(to an extent). Almost like they couldn't win the "big one". Thats a damn shame...broke in to the top 2%!

BENDER56
04-01-2014, 03:45 PM
... I was now TSgt ripcord and they made sure I had all the responsibility of a TSgt with out the compensation.

I could be misremembering this, but can't most E-5 billets be filled with an E-6 and vice versa?

Or, in other words, what the hell difference is there between a SSgt and a TSgt? In the AF, TSgt was always something like, "SSgt, Upper Half."

cloudFFVII
04-02-2014, 12:00 AM
I would say the one big difference is soooo many people asking if you were going for Chief. I don't remember any rank that as soon as you were selected, there was pressure (or expectation) that you would be working towards the next stripe. Kind of hard to explain, but I'm pretty sure everyone who has made SMSgt had the same experience.

When I made/put on SMSgt I was not assigned to an operational unit, I was in a DRU (AFOTEC). At the time we were going through a reorg from separate test teams into a more hybrid "operations" and "support" structure. There were two SMSgts, and as the ranking SMSgt (by two months), I was given the choice of which division I wanted to be the division chief. "Operations" had the mission and the most bodies, "Support" had finance, training, logistics, IT, etc. I chose support, for two reasons: 1) The Ops officer was a tool, 2) Making Chief was not the end-all/be-all for me.

There were quite a few folks (mostly the officers) that were surprised I chose support. Of course they don't truly understand the enlisted promotion system (duty title means everything to them, and nothing to us).

Long story short, both of the SMSgts who served as the ops division chief were severely hindered by the micro-managing ops officer (both retiring as SMSgts), while both support officers I worked for gave me free reign to establish & lead the division...so it looks like I made the right choice. I remember sitting at the staff meetings, I was free to voice my opinion or thought...couldn't say the same for my peer sitting next to me...

My advice: When given a choice or opportunity, make the decision that feels right for you. Don't buckle to what others think is right...listen to their inputs...but make your own decision.

I love the end of your post here.

I made this decision when I made MSgt. I am VERY happy and content with the career I have had, especially in the 2nd half when I managed to get into a job I excel at, instead of being forced into the one (reclassed) by the Air Force just because of what they needed and my ASVAB score qualified me for it.

I knew my limitations and those combined with my family situation made me decide I was happy to be the very best MSgt I can be. Meanwhile I see (most) of the other MSgt stressing out and compromising their subordinates (both molding them to be future leaders and just outright not being there to support them) and kissing whatever they have to in order to get into position to make the top 3% of the AF. That was not something I every desired or COULD ever do.

The bottom line is: Know your goals and be honest about your limitations, then decide how high you can go. The biggest key is to get your education out of the way. That is the single biggest thing to getting hired (although a good resume/job interview doesn't hurt either).

Ripcord
04-02-2014, 01:56 AM
I could be misremembering this, but can't most E-5 billets be filled with an E-6 and vice versa?

Or, in other words, what the hell difference is there between a SSgt and a TSgt? In the AF, TSgt was always something like, "SSgt, Upper Half."

About $250 a month.


It's not about the billets its about the level or responsibility given someone vs their compensation. There is a reason officers make more than enlisted.

Big Blue
04-02-2014, 07:07 PM
I could be misremembering this, but can't most E-5 billets be filled with an E-6 and vice versa?

Or, in other words, what the hell difference is there between a SSgt and a TSgt? In the AF, TSgt was always something like, "SSgt, Upper Half."

I have to agree with Ripcord on this one. I know for my AFSC that making TSgt is a big deal. You are then the NCOIC of either the shop or at minimum the ANCOIC, which meant you were stepping your game up immediately. Especially in the land of a thousand staff's as of a few yrs ago.

BENDER56
04-03-2014, 03:46 PM
I have to agree with Ripcord on this one. I know for my AFSC that making TSgt is a big deal. You are then the NCOIC of either the shop or at minimum the ANCOIC, which meant you were stepping your game up immediately. Especially in the land of a thousand staff's as of a few yrs ago.

Perhaps then it's my fallible memory.

Or maybe in the medical world it was different (I was a 902X0/4N0X0).

Either way, it sounds like my experience might have been the exception.

LogDog
04-03-2014, 07:31 PM
Perhaps then it's my fallible memory.

Or maybe in the medical world it was different (I was a 902X0/4N0X0).

Either way, it sounds like my experience might have been the exception.
I ws 4A1 my entire career and it wasn't unusual for a billet to be filled by someone one rank lower than authorized. I know from about the second year I was in I would often fill the position of one rank above mine. It wasn't because I was that good but mainly because we were short-staffed throughout my career. Filling a billet one rank higher or lower may be normal in the medical AFSCs but I don't know about how it's done in non-medical AFSCs.