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imported_DannyJ
03-10-2014, 12:45 PM
So I got the email that I was tapped for course 15 (the NCOA-DLC) a couple of days ago. 1,461 pages of course work with 2 tests. No printed materials offered. None. Oh and no subsidy on a tablet to read all that material on either.

I get the need to save money where we can, but this on top of an already pressing schedule while at homestation? Really? What happened to the promises of reduction of admin requirements? What happened to returning time to "our Airmen"? Don't worry that we're all expected to be personnelists, finance experts, fitness gurus, resiliance experts, etc, etc, etc. So personal reponsibility applies everywhere but work performance?

Sry, just a bit of a rant here, but this kind of thing could be a pretty good indicator of why morale is continuing on the downward spiral. I am dissappointed in these kind of decisions.

What's really great is, when I get done with this, I have course 14 to look forward to as well.

BISSBOSS
03-10-2014, 12:52 PM
Course 15?!?

Had to look that one up. I found an article at: http://www.315aw.afrc.af.mil/news/story.asp?id=123290761

There was a blurb mid-way through the article that indicated:

IMPORTANT NOTICE: Until funding is available for hardcopy printing, the NCOADLC will only be available via electronic softcopies.

Maybe check that out...

Good luck!

-BB-

DWWSWWD
03-10-2014, 12:54 PM
Were you twice deferred for in-residence? New PME is coming and I am not a fan. Good arguments are being made for distance learning, blended learning. Good colleges use BlackBoard or there are some topics that should be completed at home station so we can just spend money where we need to spend money. I don't buy it for many reasons, one that you alluded to. What is the level of commitment from the member or support from leadership for completing PME while you are working your full-time job? Folks that are making these decisions sometimes apply the feasibilility of completing the course to their work environment and that is short-sighted.

imported_DannyJ
03-10-2014, 12:54 PM
Yes, sir. I have the soft copies, but sitting in front of a computer screen attempting to read 1400+ pages of dry material may cause resiliancy challanges.

HeyEng
03-10-2014, 04:42 PM
And hopefully it works as well as the SNCOA course. It has been an absolute pain...many issues with the courseware. I have just about given up on accomplishing it.

imported_DannyJ
03-10-2014, 05:18 PM
Just got this:

"Numerous TSgt's have received an e-mail from MY PERS concerning course 15 (NCOA) by correspondence. This is a valid e-mail. However, we are still sorting through those who are actually eligible to take the NCOA via correspondence. Not everyone who got the e-mail is eligible to enroll. We will notify you soon on this issue.

Please tell your TSgt's to just hold on and do nothing until we get back with you. One certainty......Those who have received a quota for in-residence must attend the class. Thanks.

Bob B. Bobbert
Base Training Manager"

imported_DannyJ
03-10-2014, 05:21 PM
Were you twice deferred for in-residence? New PME is coming and I am not a fan. Good arguments are being made for distance learning, blended learning. Good colleges use BlackBoard or there are some topics that should be completed at home station so we can just spend money where we need to spend money. I don't buy it for many reasons, one that you alluded to. What is the level of commitment from the member or support from leadership for completing PME while you are working your full-time job? Folks that are making these decisions sometimes apply the feasibilility of completing the course to their work environment and that is short-sighted.

To answer your question Cheif, no, but I do fall into the category of less than 1 year TIG.

Part that really kills me is the DLC includes an entire section about the different styles of learning (auditory, visual, and kinethetic), but only provides for the visual folks. SMH.

BRUWIN
03-10-2014, 06:35 PM
So I got the email that I was tapped for course 15 (the NCOA-DLC) a couple of days ago. 1,461 pages of course work with 2 tests. No printed materials offered. None. Oh and no subsidy on a tablet to read all that material on either.

I get the need to save money where we can, but this on top of an already pressing schedule while at homestation? Really? What happened to the promises of reduction of admin requirements? What happened to returning time to "our Airmen"? Don't worry that we're all expected to be personnelists, finance experts, fitness gurus, resiliance experts, etc, etc, etc. So personal reponsibility applies everywhere but work performance?

Sry, just a bit of a rant here, but this kind of thing could be a pretty good indicator of why morale is continuing on the downward spiral. I am dissappointed in these kind of decisions.

What's really great is, when I get done with this, I have course 14 to look forward to as well.

Crazy...seems they pile more on you guys everytime I turn around.

DWWSWWD
03-10-2014, 06:48 PM
To answer your question Cheif, no, but I do fall into the category of less than 1 year TIG.

OK. I've been getting some calls. One Chief actually told his folks not to enroll.... Crazy. I just got off the phone with the HMFIC of this and here is the deal. If you got the e-mail, it is mandatory for you to do it and completing it will make you PME complete for NCOA. Most everyone though will have opportunity to take the in-residence piece that will start next year. This is a pre-requisite though both will not be mandatory.

Big Blue
03-10-2014, 08:12 PM
I'm slated to go to SNCOA soon and my Base Training Manager just called me and confirmed that I had not taken the new Course 14 which I have not so I have to show up to the schoolhouse a week earlier to get spun up on the new material. From my understanding, we were told NOT to take the new one if you had completed the old. I am happy though that I at least will get some familiarity with the new material prior to class starting. I imagine this will affect others until they have everyone complete the new course prior to attendance. Danny J, sorry about your new course load. Definite need for flexibility in these times. Good Luck!

ubermetroid
03-10-2014, 09:25 PM
... Also - If you have a line number for Tech you got the email ...

imported_DannyJ
03-10-2014, 10:41 PM
... Also - If you have a line number for Tech you got the email ...

REALLY?! Wow. AFPC FTW?

imported_DannyJ
03-11-2014, 05:33 PM
Follow up...Got told to go ahead with the DLC.

raider8169
03-11-2014, 06:16 PM
Follow up...Got told to go ahead with the DLC.

We have one here in the same boat. I am on my first deferment but that should be my only one as it is not injury related.

DWWSWWD
03-11-2014, 06:56 PM
We have one here in the same boat. I am on my first deferment but that should be my only one as it is not injury related. Regardless, if you do not complete NCOA in-residence, before early next year, you will complete the DLC. The NCOA as we know it will not exist. There will be Course 15 and ILE. ILE is the optional in-residence piece that not all Airmen will be offered. Tracking?

imported_DannyJ
03-11-2014, 10:22 PM
Regardless, if you do not complete NCOA in-residence, before early next year, you will complete the DLC. The NCOA as we know it will not exist. There will be Course 15 and ILE. ILE is the optional in-residence piece that not all Airmen will be offered. Tracking?

So, if by some act of God I get to go in residence, I get to cease and desist on the DLC?

sandsjames
03-11-2014, 11:03 PM
I'm out of the loop here. Is in-residence PME going away? The excellent training that we have been told for years is an absolute necessity to become a better NCO is being replaced in order to save money? So what part was the lie? So either money is more important than training or the importance of the training has been overblown and jammed down our throats as critical (even by many of you on this forum) when it actually isn't. I'll go with the latter, as I have stated on more than one occassion.

DWWSWWD
03-11-2014, 11:55 PM
So, if by some act of God I get to go in residence, I get to cease and desist on the DLC? The short answer is yes but you aren't in the window for folks that usually are scheduled. AFPC typically shoots for 2 yrs TIG. You are part of plan to provide NCOA and SNCOA earlier in a career. To SandS, in-residence isn't going away. We're just not going to send turds to it anymore. In-residence will be 20 academic days instead of 28 and preceded by a BlackBoard facilitated DL and also preceded by the Course 15.

ske4za
03-12-2014, 09:18 AM
... Also - If you have a line number for Tech you got the email ...

Yes. I'm a tech-select, and I got an email as well as a co-worker who is a tech-select. Reading the attached memo's make it seem like you aren't even eligible to enroll until you actually pin on TSgt, which I don't do until July.

I asked some MSgt's around the office, and they all looked at me like I was either pulling their leg, or making some shit up. Nobody knows anything.

imported_DannyJ
03-12-2014, 11:19 AM
Yes. I'm a tech-select, and I got an email as well as a co-worker who is a tech-select. Reading the attached memo's make it seem like you aren't even eligible to enroll until you actually pin on TSgt, which I don't do until July.

I asked some MSgt's around the office, and they all looked at me like I was either pulling their leg, or making some shit up. Nobody knows anything.

Yeah, another case of READY...FIRE...AIM! Gerd jerb AFPC.

sandsjames
03-12-2014, 08:28 PM
REALLY?! Wow. AFPC FTW?

I think that your "FTW" should be reversed.

ubermetroid
03-12-2014, 09:36 PM
Yes. I'm a tech-select, and I got an email as well as a co-worker who is a tech-select. Reading the attached memo's make it seem like you aren't even eligible to enroll until you actually pin on TSgt, which I don't do until July.

I asked some MSgt's around the office, and they all looked at me like I was either pulling their leg, or making some shit up. Nobody knows anything.

The MSgt's are not going to know - this is course 15.1 .... Brand new. Also, on the email I got it says you can enroll if you have a line number for tech.

ske4za
03-14-2014, 10:25 PM
The MSgt's are not going to know - this is course 15.1 .... Brand new. Also, on the email I got it says you can enroll if you have a line number for tech.

According to the rank requirements in the linked memos, you can't.

Course 15 v1 announcement

Rank requirements for active duty

-TSgt w/greater than 2 years TIG that also have 2 or more deferments from NCOA
-TSgt w/ less than 1 year TIG
-TSgt returned from NCOA to home station prior to graduation as a result of government shutdown

Same information in the EPME DL Enrollment Transition policy (which covers course 14 and course 15).

The only SSgts eligible to take Course 15 are those in the guard or reserve.

ubermetroid
03-15-2014, 03:06 AM
According to the rank requirements in the linked memos, you can't.
Course 15 v1 announcement
Same information in the EPME DL Enrollment Transition policy (which covers course 14 and course 15).
The only SSgts eligible to take Course 15 are those in the guard or reserve.

Yep ... But if you read the email it states that SSgts with a line # for Tech can take the course.

ske4za
03-15-2014, 04:12 AM
Yep ... But if you read the email it states that SSgts with a line # for Tech can take the course.

That will teach me to read the email all the way through! Ok, maybe it won't... not like I'm in any rush to enroll anyway.


Additional Note: HAF/A1 has approved E6 selects to enroll in the course.

ubermetroid
03-15-2014, 02:52 PM
That was my plan.... Until I got an email from the super telling me to sign up and get it done.

diabolic
03-18-2014, 03:48 PM
I'm also a Tech Select and got the same email. It's a complete pain to get registered for the course. I spent the better part of an afternoon just trying to get an account made. What’s more, I couldn't enroll because I'm still a Staff for another month. I got a hold of the help desk and they worked their magic and now I'm enrolled. And yes, it's a boat load of reading. Reading I'll be doing at home because I just don't have the time to do it at work. Hope the rest of my Course 15 brethren can power through it with me.

ske4za
03-20-2014, 06:47 AM
Well I just got an email from the shirt, forwarded from training... I guess you have 30 days to actually enroll once you get the automated email. Tried to enroll, but as soon as I click NCOA DL Course 15, I get a pop up that says "Service or Rank Not Available."

Oh well. It was worth a shot. Guess it wasn't meant to be.

ubermetroid
03-20-2014, 10:55 AM
Well I just got an email from the shirt, forwarded from training... I guess you have 30 days to actually enroll once you get the automated email. Tried to enroll, but as soon as I click NCOA DL Course 15, I get a pop up that says "Service or Rank Not Available."

Oh well. It was worth a shot. Guess it wasn't meant to be.

You have to email the help desk and let them know you have a line number. They will fix the problem and enroll you.

ske4za
03-20-2014, 07:53 PM
You have to email the help desk and let them know you have a line number. They will fix the problem and enroll you.

Oh I wasn't being serious, I already sent out the email. I'm just not clearly interested in participating in it. I'll get it done though.

DannyJ
05-18-2014, 05:32 PM
Ok, little late, but some follow up. Course 15.1 is a hot mess of editorial errors, bad grammar, poor citation of support, and ridiculous barf-back of stuff you were tested on to make TSgt anyway... There is very little review material (which doesn't match the exam style anyway) and no interpersonal interaction to get any kind of feedback. I'm not sure if this was pressured from the top to get out to the masses quickly, but it seems to me that a lot of (T)Sgts and TSgts are being set up for failure from the get-go. I'm considering walking in half-blind just to get a feel of what the test is like and to see where I am.

A few years back my career field attempted to add some online coursework to our 7 level requirements. Pass rate for that portion ended up being somewhere in the low teens, ended up being cancelled, and all those that were enrolled but didn't pass were waived anyway. Seems to me course 15 is headed in the same direction.

This is not the way an institution that values it's people reinforces learning and growth.

DannyJ
05-22-2014, 11:24 PM
Well, got myself scheduled to see what we get. Cramming all weekend and hoping it works out. I'll post again with my thoughts.

curtst
05-28-2014, 02:01 AM
Well, got myself scheduled to see what we get. Cramming all weekend and hoping it works out. I'll post again with my thoughts.

When did you schedule it? Kind of curious on what to expect from this thing. Like you said in another post the book is absolutely horrendous for all the reasons you stated plus more.

DannyJ
05-28-2014, 01:00 PM
When did you schedule it? Kind of curious on what to expect from this thing. Like you said in another post the book is absolutely horrendous for all the reasons you stated plus more.

Tomorrow. I'll post pretty quickly after.

mikezulu1
05-28-2014, 01:17 PM
you taking Set A or Set B? I've taken Set A and it was pretty easy as long as you read the material. Very few questions (less than 20) for over 600 pages of material. "Comprehension level" questions you wont be able to just identify basic terms and do well. But like I said if you read everything and did a little review its a piece of cake.

Taking Set B next week, heard thats the one a lot of people struggle with. We'll see.

curtst
05-28-2014, 01:20 PM
Tomorrow. I'll post pretty quickly after.

Best of luck. Only thing I'm hearing about the test is the first test is pretty easy, it's the second test that the majority of people fail.

curtst
05-28-2014, 07:15 PM
you taking Set A or Set B? I've taken Set A and it was pretty easy as long as you read the material. Very few questions (less than 20) for over 600 pages of material. "Comprehension level" questions you wont be able to just identify basic terms and do well. But like I said if you read everything and did a little review its a piece of cake.

Taking Set B next week, heard thats the one a lot of people struggle with. We'll see.

There are less than 20 questions covering 3 volumes in Set A? Or is it like about 20 questions from each volume?

I have tried to look at the E-Exam student guide that is supposedly at http://www.au.af.mil/au/afiadl/ but surprise, surprise, it isn't there.

mikezulu1
05-28-2014, 07:36 PM
There are less than 20 questions covering 3 volumes in Set A? Or is it like about 20 questions from each volume?

I have tried to look at the E-Exam student guide that is supposedly at http://www.au.af.mil/au/afiadl/ but surprise, surprise, it isn't there.


Yeah, less than 20 questions for Vol 1,2,3 combined. 1 test covering all three volumes and less than 20 questions. lol only in the USAF.

DannyJ
05-28-2014, 09:11 PM
What's really awesome is that I was attempting to "order" my test and am completely unable to access the ausis site needed to do so. I am sincerely disappointed in this whole ordeal.

DannyJ
05-28-2014, 09:12 PM
Best of luck. Only thing I'm hearing about the test is the first test is pretty easy, it's the second test that the majority of people fail.

I'm curious what the fail rate is. I have no idea who dreamed up this charlie foxtrot.

mikezulu1
05-28-2014, 09:24 PM
What's really awesome is that I was attempting to "order" my test and am completely unable to access the ausis site needed to do so. I am sincerely disappointed in this whole ordeal.


I had this same issue. I called EDU office and scheduled my test but no one said anything about going through ausis and ordering it. No direction or guidance on the process at all. Poorly written materials, if I were to guess I would say it was put together by an A1C with a GED. The sentence structure, spelling and grammar are terrible. Who reviewed this? I could see one or two errors here and there but I've spotted probably over 50 serious errors and I'm not that great at English/grammar myself.

Edit to add: I wonder when they are going to start rolling out dates for this shorter NCOA?

DannyJ
05-28-2014, 11:31 PM
I had this same issue. I called EDU office and scheduled my test but no one said anything about going through ausis and ordering it. No direction or guidance on the process at all. Poorly written materials, if I were to guess I would say it was put together by an A1C with a GED. The sentence structure, spelling and grammar are terrible. Who reviewed this? I could see one or two errors here and there but I've spotted probably over 50 serious errors and I'm not that great at English/grammar myself.

Edit to add: I wonder when they are going to start rolling out dates for this shorter NCOA?

No word on the in residence portion yet. Just the whole thing screams of being slammed together last minute without being completely thought through, which given the whole environment of the USAF recently, doesn't really surprise me.

DannyJ
05-29-2014, 11:41 AM
Finally able to get on the ausis site. Might be helpful and open some doors for folks about the tests.

https://ausis.maxwell.af.mil/SIS/app/template/SchoolIndex.vm;jsessionid=3cfac778c44092f3a5bb19b3 c12599bb9b8ba1c376d370a380a827287bca3e22.e34SaxeRa haRay0Lb3qQbNeLb3mRe0?school=NCOA#NEWTEST

DannyJ
05-29-2014, 02:00 PM
you taking Set A or Set B? I've taken Set A and it was pretty easy as long as you read the material. Very few questions (less than 20) for over 600 pages of material. "Comprehension level" questions you wont be able to just identify basic terms and do well. But like I said if you read everything and did a little review its a piece of cake.

Taking Set B next week, heard thats the one a lot of people struggle with. We'll see.

So, 10 minutes later...82%. Pretty much exactly as you said, mikzulu1. Test didn't even cover 25%+ of the material in the reading...

mikezulu1
05-29-2014, 02:30 PM
So, 10 minutes later...82%. Pretty much exactly as you said, mikzulu1. Test didn't even cover 25%+ of the material in the reading...

congrats on passing. I'm just wrapping up the reading for Set B and ughhh I was actually a LITTLE interested in Set A but this one has been rough, ready for it to be over so I can pick up my PDG and get to work on 15E7. No idea how this board is going to play out, probably don't have a shot first time but don't want to be the guy that gets a great board score and flubs the test only to miss by 4-5 points. We'll see....

DannyJ
05-29-2014, 03:29 PM
congrats on passing. I'm just wrapping up the reading for Set B and ughhh I was actually a LITTLE interested in Set A but this one has been rough, ready for it to be over so I can pick up my PDG and get to work on 15E7. No idea how this board is going to play out, probably don't have a shot first time but don't want to be the guy that gets a great board score and flubs the test only to miss by 4-5 points. We'll see....

Let us know how set B pans out. I think I'm going to take a break for a week or two before I pick it up. I hope we hear about boards/no boards soon. Without boards I'll have to make 87s just to match this year's cutoff for my AFSC...

technomage1
05-30-2014, 05:10 AM
Can't speak for course 15, but aside from the first module (which the exam had nothing to do with the reading material) course 14 (the old one) wasn't too bad. Took me six weeks, a week per module. I'd read about an hour every night at home, taking notes, then review on Sunday. The worst part was I was at an isolated location and had to drive 3 hours one way to sit for a 15 minute exam. So my whole duty day on Mondays was shot for a month and some change. At least with course 15 it's just 2 exams.

I can't seem to find too much informations about the new PME scheme. Is the thought that new TSgts are going to take the online stuff first and then attend in residence later? I thought the in residence course was useful but too late.

curtst
05-30-2014, 06:06 PM
congrats on passing. I'm just wrapping up the reading for Set B and ughhh I was actually a LITTLE interested in Set A but this one has been rough, ready for it to be over so I can pick up my PDG and get to work on 15E7. No idea how this board is going to play out, probably don't have a shot first time but don't want to be the guy that gets a great board score and flubs the test only to miss by 4-5 points. We'll see....

I need to get started on the E7 stuff too. I am curious about the board stuff as well. E8s and 9s, have the boards, and don't have to take the SKT, so I am curious if we will have to do the SKTs or not if the board happens.

curtst
06-03-2014, 03:25 PM
So I took Set A test today. Had 17 questions. Passed with a 71%. I'm a little embarrassed to admit that score, but hey, passing is passing. Starting to read up on Set B now and holy cow volume 1 is huge! Hopefully will make it through set B ok, so I can get get back to working on my degree and studying for WAPS.

DannyJ
06-03-2014, 06:35 PM
So I took Set A test today. Had 17 questions. Passed with a 71%. I'm a little embarrassed to admit that score, but hey, passing is passing. Starting to read up on Set B now and holy cow volume 1 is huge! Hopefully will make it through set B ok, so I can get get back to working on my degree and studying for WAPS.

Congrats on the pass!

Yeah, Unit Manager is 551 pages!

sandsjames
06-03-2014, 06:58 PM
I need to get started on the E7 stuff too. I am curious about the board stuff as well. E8s and 9s, have the boards, and don't have to take the SKT, so I am curious if we will have to do the SKTs or not if the board happens.

E7 will still consist of the SKT and PFE, just as before. Top 60% (or so) in each career field will get passed on to the board. Can't compare it to this year (or previous years) because, from what I heard, TIS/TIG do not play a part. So any previous cutoffs will not be a good guideline. Top percentage of scores, period.

Airborne
06-04-2014, 06:20 AM
E7 will still consist of the SKT and PFE, just as before. Top 60% (or so) in each career field will get passed on to the board. Can't compare it to this year (or previous years) because, from what I heard, TIS/TIG do not play a part. So any previous cutoffs will not be a good guideline. Top percentage of scores, period.

E714 just released so in theory the race begins for E715, but as of now the E7 board is nothing more than a rumor. "But my Command Chief said...", "I heard it from Chief Cody"...HQ A1 needs to release the parameters and put the rumors to rest. I guess they have until the PECD.

DannyJ
07-11-2014, 05:11 PM
So, I'm done. Set Bs test was bad. Questions and answers were horribly worded. I can tell why people have had trouble with it.

curtst
07-11-2014, 08:37 PM
So, I'm done. Set Bs test was bad. Questions and answers were horribly worded. I can tell why people have had trouble with it.

Congrats. Still trying to get through set B. This book is a tough read. Even worse than set A I think. Out of curiosity, how many questions were on the set B test?

DannyJ
07-12-2014, 12:34 AM
More than 20 less than 30.