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Jamethon
02-20-2014, 03:47 AM
So, the voluntary separation packages were supposed to be processed this past week. They waited until the week of it to check that the requirements for the packages were made. On top of this, they are choosing to forgo server maintenance over looking at packages to approve or disapprove. Every time you call AFPC, the different people give you different stories on what is going to happen.

We have a historic drawdown in the Air Force, and our personnel center doesn't have its ducks in row. I wouldn't expect less.

wxjumper
02-20-2014, 05:12 AM
I thought it was delayed due to the RIF being pushed back to October, thereby giving those that submitted VSP packages a chance to recant.

edoc118
02-21-2014, 06:12 PM
Its getting pretty ridiculous. It's really hard to plan for the future when AFPC won't notify any of us if our seperation packages are approved or not.

fufu
02-21-2014, 06:59 PM
I'm no personnelist...but the AF put AFPC in a terribly difficult situation. I think Big Blue should have implemented this in stages: VSP, then QFIB, then QFRB. Throwing this much at the force, while basically figuring it out as they go, put AFPC in a position where they are the POC for questions they don't have answers too.

From what I hear, AFPC doesn't even have the authority to wave certain "issues" so Airman may vol sep.

This whole thing is a complete gaggle fuck and I expect nothing less from our "Leadership".

HeyEng
02-21-2014, 10:17 PM
Don't blame AFPC for this. I have talked to the functional manager(s) in my AFSC and AFPC is really in the dark. The ONLY people who have any clue of what's REALLY going on (and they are in the dark too) are the fools at A1 Pentagon. The guys and gals at AFPC are trying to do the best they can, but the information is changing on a daily basis. It's hard to do your job when you aren't sure what the job really is.

Capt Alfredo
02-21-2014, 10:41 PM
Don't blame AFPC for this. I have talked to the functional manager(s) in my AFSC and AFPC is really in the dark. The ONLY people who have any clue of what's REALLY going on (and they are in the dark too) are the fools at A1 Pentagon. The guys and gals at AFPC are trying to do the best they can, but the information is changing on a daily basis. It's hard to do your job when you aren't sure what the job really is.

But by all means, "know your options."

imported_AFKILO7
02-24-2014, 10:12 AM
At least we have the opportunity to competitive BBQ! What about mustache march? The CSAF just threw down the challenge! We can do all sorts of fun stuff before we are booted out on our asses at the last moment.

wxjumper
02-24-2014, 10:46 AM
Post wont delete

SomeRandomGuy
02-24-2014, 02:08 PM
Don't blame AFPC for this. I have talked to the functional manager(s) in my AFSC and AFPC is really in the dark. The ONLY people who have any clue of what's REALLY going on (and they are in the dark too) are the fools at A1 Pentagon. The guys and gals at AFPC are trying to do the best they can, but the information is changing on a daily basis. It's hard to do your job when you aren't sure what the job really is.

I feel bad for the people at AFPC. People want to ask them hypothetical questions and then follow that advice like it is gold. I have had people do the same thing to me at Finance. They want an official answer for a situation that isn't black and white in any regulation. All you can do is point them in the right direction and let them interpret it on their own. If you give them an answer that they want to hear that turns out to be incorrect you get blamed for it. If I worked at AFPC I would tell people that they have access to the same info I do. Until the people at the top actually make decisions on how things will go your guess is as good as mine on what will happen.

Salty Old Dog
02-26-2014, 02:25 PM
We have a historic drawdown in the Air Force, and our personnel center doesn't have its ducks in row. I wouldn't expect less.

Don't feel bad. The last time they did a big VSIP/VERA (early separation/early retirement) offer for civil service, there were folks that went nearly a YEAR before receiving their first retirement check! Granted, they were back-paid for the entire period, but still.....that's gotta push some folks to the limit, ya know?

But hey, I'm sure that AFPC is considered the pinnacle of efficiency in today's Air Force! :mmph

imported_blacksheep1208
03-02-2014, 12:09 PM
I feel bad for the people at AFPC. People want to ask them hypothetical questions and then follow that advice like it is gold. I have had people do the same thing to me at Finance. They want an official answer for a situation that isn't black and white in any regulation. All you can do is point them in the right direction and let them interpret it on their own. If you give them an answer that they want to hear that turns out to be incorrect you get blamed for it. If I worked at AFPC I would tell people that they have access to the same info I do. Until the people at the top actually make decisions on how things will go your guess is as good as mine on what will happen.

Let's be real about this. If you go to finance and ask three different people the same question you get three different answers. Same crap with any office dealing with personnelists. Go to outbound, retention, whatever, doesn't matter. They don't even understand their own AFI's. So can someone out there explain why it's my job to know the AFI's that pertain to my job, as well as every support AFSC out there?

Big Blue
03-02-2014, 04:28 PM
Let's be real about this. If you go to finance and ask three different people the same question you get three different answers. Same crap with any office dealing with personnelists. Go to outbound, retention, whatever, doesn't matter. They don't even understand their own AFI's. So can someone out there explain why it's my job to know the AFI's that pertain to my job, as well as every support AFSC out there?


You are spot on with that assessment and while it is frustrating it is an unfortunate reality to know your stuff to take care of you and your troops. These days I will engage with their NCOIC to say WTF. They absolutely should be held accountable and I always point out that when you walk into my office my guys better be able to give you the correct answer or be knee deep in research. Normally most are responsive and try to help. At previous bases I have had to help the amn out at my final out appointment because I knew more than them!! Total foul! I did hear on Friday that we should have more clarity on Tera, etc this week. Good Luck!

cloudFFVII
03-05-2014, 11:05 PM
So, the voluntary separation packages were supposed to be processed this past week. They waited until the week of it to check that the requirements for the packages were made. On top of this, they are choosing to forgo server maintenance over looking at packages to approve or disapprove. Every time you call AFPC, the different people give you different stories on what is going to happen.

We have a historic drawdown in the Air Force, and our personnel center doesn't have its ducks in row. I wouldn't expect less.

Would you be willing to share who exactly you talked to at AFPC? (I.E, did you call a "friend" or did you call the Total Force Service Center (TFSC)?

Capt Alfredo
03-05-2014, 11:08 PM
The service center people won't give you their full name when you ask (so you can use it cite who gave you what advice), I guess because they're afraid of blowback from angry people.

cloudFFVII
03-05-2014, 11:13 PM
The service center people won't give you their full name when you ask (so you can use it cite who gave you what advice), I guess because they're afraid of blowback from angry people.

True, but note you can also contact the TFSC via email. That email, from what I'm told, is then routed to the SME's. If you are only talking to the Customer Service person that answers, they might not know the in-depth info the SME's do.

Think about it this way: If you call USAA to apply for a loan, and are disapproved, that person might just be following the "basic" script. You would then ask to talk to a supervisor/manager who then has more authority and could possible overlook one or more of the criteria for approval.

If you are really serious about this, then ask to talk to the section responsible for the program (There's nothing wrong with asking to talk to a SNCO in charge). Then you should get a straight-on answer, if it is available.

It's just my opinion making blanket statements about an entire organization based on one set of phone calls is pretty "chest pumping", considering if I made 3 phone calls to any squadron, group or wing about an emerging situation that affects thousands of people that they have not been clearly informed about, it would seem pretty lame for me to just paint them with the same brush and say that squadron/group/wing "sucked".

BigBaze
03-06-2014, 09:56 AM
I just reenlisted, and turned in the 901 signed by my commander to MPF, and clicked the Cancel Separation button on vMPF. The next day my status in vMPF was updated to "Scheduled for Separation" on March 19, and I am scheduled to return home from deployment on Mar 26. This can't be the first time someone has reenlisted. Oh well, back to the phones I go to ask AFPC WTF is going on.

Chief_KO
03-06-2014, 12:12 PM
I just reenlisted, and turned in the 901 signed by my commander to MPF, and clicked the Cancel Separation button on vMPF. The next day my status in vMPF was updated to "Scheduled for Separation" on March 19, and I am scheduled to return home from deployment on Mar 26. This can't be the first time someone has reenlisted. Oh well, back to the phones I go to ask AFPC WTF is going on.

Hopefully that status is just reflecting your change from canceling your separation, reenlisting, and that your paperwork has not yet been processed. Hence, the system reflects your projected separation at ETS.

IMO one of the problems with all the self-help tools is providing the member with immediate system updates/status that are really "transitory" status. There is still a human in the loop that has to process that piece of paper & perform some actions.

Hopefully you'll get an answer soon.

BigBaze
03-06-2014, 01:37 PM
Hopefully that status is just reflecting your change from canceling your separation, reenlisting, and that your paperwork has not yet been processed. Hence, the system reflects your projected separation at ETS.

IMO one of the problems with all the self-help tools is providing the member with immediate system updates/status that are really "transitory" status. There is still a human in the loop that has to process that piece of paper & perform some actions.

Hopefully you'll get an answer soon.


Chief, thank you..I managed to talk to the NCOIC at PERSCO out here and he said something to that extent. I guess it was sort of a surprise when I landed from a day over the AOR and saw the pending separation in the system, it's not something I wanted to see with a couple weeks left until my DOS, while deployed. Thanks for the advice, (and peace of mind)! Looks like I got a little ahead of myself.

BENDER56
03-06-2014, 06:44 PM
Let's be real about this. If you go to finance and ask three different people the same question you get three different answers. Same crap with any office dealing with personnelists. Go to outbound, retention, whatever, doesn't matter. They don't even understand their own AFI's. So can someone out there explain why it's my job to know the AFI's that pertain to my job, as well as every support AFSC out there?

That was the main thing I noticed in the AF, starting around the late '90s -- a widespread loss of expertise.

I don't know if it was fallout from the early '90s drawdown, or perhaps it was there all along but I never noticed it until I became a 1st Sgt in '98, but most people simply didn't know their own jobs. And yes, it was especially noticeable in MPF.

Of course, that problem eventually became moot when someone got the bright idea to just let every member function as his or her own MPF. That worked well.

Retirement rocks.

SomeRandomGuy
03-06-2014, 07:26 PM
That was the main thing I noticed in the AF, starting around the late '90s -- a widespread loss of expertise.

I don't know if it was fallout from the early '90s drawdown, or perhaps it was there all along but I never noticed it until I became a 1st Sgt in '98, but most people simply didn't know their own jobs. And yes, it was especially noticeable in MPF.

Of course, that problem eventually became moot when someone got the bright idea to just let every member function as his or her own MPF. That worked well.

Retirement rocks.

I believe it was caused by AFSC mergers. Some AFSC mergers made sense and some didn't. The other factor that compounds this is the excessive amount of regulations and the constant changes to them. I can give you an example from finance. We used to have 2 AFSCs. In layman's terms it was essentially budget versus customer service (pay). They ended up merging and now you need to know everything there is to know about the budget process along with everything there is to know about the pay process. As soon as you get any good at one they move you to a different section and you start over. By the time you master that you make rank and they move you back to be NCOIC. The only problem is literally everything changed while you were gone so you are stuck starting over again.

From what I hear other AFSCs had the same issues. I believe the 3A Series is in constant turmoil right now. For a while a record manager and a Computer Support Agent (CSA) were the same AFSC. So imagine you get really good at being a CSA and even get your microsoft cert and security plus. Congratulations now it's time for you to move to records management! You won't be needing that cert anymore. We need you to learn to be a records custodian.

Chief_KO
03-06-2014, 07:27 PM
Chief, thank you..I managed to talk to the NCOIC at PERSCO out here and he said something to that extent. I guess it was sort of a surprise when I landed from a day over the AOR and saw the pending separation in the system, it's not something I wanted to see with a couple weeks left until my DOS, while deployed. Thanks for the advice, (and peace of mind)! Looks like I got a little ahead of myself.

No problem! Unfortunately the tools provided to us laypeople are not written/designed with us in mind. They were built for the SMEs, then we were given access...
Compare Orbitz to DTS as one example...