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snowman
02-08-2014, 05:24 PM
..............................................

Rainmaker
02-08-2014, 08:59 PM
Rainmaker welcome you to the Forum Snowman. Unfortunately,This ain't the short bus. so, If you have a medical condition so bad that you have to exempted from even walking, then you'd probably want to be Med Boarded and compensated thru the VA for whatever, Service connected disability you have contracted. Or medically Retired. There's plenty of resident experts here on serious disabilities like snoring and tenitis. The key question is this: do YOU Got A CPAP??

Drackore
02-08-2014, 09:02 PM
Well opinions aside, I'd like to hear if anyone knows for sure if this is the case. I also have a personal interest in that.

jshiver15
02-08-2014, 10:06 PM
I haven't heard anything like this and I just did a "cardio exempt" test (ACL tear). It might be different for someone who is on permanent profile, though.

snowman
02-08-2014, 10:06 PM
do YOU Got A CPAP??

I do not have sleep apnea, i have multiple rods in both legs and about 100 screws holding them together. I was already med boarded once and they determined I Could still do my job and retained me. So it seems odd i'd have to go through that again just because of a PT test.

J.D.C.
02-08-2014, 10:09 PM
It "can" lead to one. Any one that has a 4 tests back to back with exemptions are suppose to be referred to the DAWG which can in turn lead to a MEB.

snowman
02-08-2014, 10:10 PM
It "can" lead to one. Any one that has a 4 tests back to back with exemptions are suppose to be referred to the DAWG which can in turn lead to a MEB.

been there, dont that, I'm heading into test number 10 in a row

Rainmaker
02-08-2014, 10:28 PM
I do not have sleep apnea, i have multiple rods in both legs and about 100 screws holding them together. I was already med boarded once and they determined I Could still do my job and retained me. So it seems odd i'd have to go through that again just because of a PT test.

well,since it's just minor injury and nothing serious, like snoring. you prolly should be good to go. Good luck wiff your career.

snowman
02-09-2014, 12:09 AM
well,since it's just minor injury and nothing serious, like snoring. you prolly should be good to go. Good luck wiff your career.

i see what you did there

CYBERFX1024
02-09-2014, 12:42 AM
I feel the same way as the other people on here. If YOU CAN NOT DO A SIMPLE WALK TEST then how can you stay in, and are you even deployable? If you can't do a walk test then get out and get compensated by the VA.

snowman
02-09-2014, 01:45 AM
I feel the same way as the other people on here. If YOU CAN NOT DO A SIMPLE WALK TEST then how can you stay in, and are you even deployable? If you can't do a walk test then get out and get compensated by the VA.

I feel that I can finish these last 2 years, just like I did the last 5 with the same injury, while deploying...the only requirement to deploy as far as waivers go is that you are able to run 100 meters. Not to mention i deserve full retirement PLUS disability, not just disability after doing 18 years.

Capt Alfredo
02-09-2014, 01:51 AM
I feel the same way as the other people on here. If YOU CAN NOT DO A SIMPLE WALK TEST then how can you stay in, and are you even deployable? If you can't do a walk test then get out and get compensated by the VA.

You guys and your deployment fixation. Most people don't need to deploy to do their jobs.

BRUWIN
02-09-2014, 03:29 AM
I was told being exempt from walk test (waist, situps, pushups only) would automatically generate a MEB. I showed the doctor the new regulation that states even if you pass the new walk test, it is recorded as an exempt at which point he was confused and had no idea anymore. So, I'm asking here. Is that true? I can't walk fast for the same reason I can't run. I passed every run test until injured and passed every "heart rate test" until they got rid of it. The new test I've tried, I physically can not go that fast without causing further injury to the reason I am not running.

Also, does TIS play an impact on MEB, ie...is does "sanctuary status" effect the outcome of a MEB?

Can I be honest here? If you can't walk maybe the military is not the job for you.

BRUWIN
02-09-2014, 03:36 AM
Well opinions aside, I'd like to hear if anyone knows for sure if this is the case. I also have a personal interest in that.

As for the OP's question...I am really not sure. I do know that if you are not breathing and your heart is not pumping for a full 24 hours or greater you can get an MEB. My one friend did but he eventually got waived even though he still isn't breathing and looks like hell to be frank. He works at MPF now...best worker they got from what I hear.

imnohero
02-09-2014, 03:36 AM
Gee, I wonder if anyone knows the answer to the guys question...

SomeRandomGuy
02-09-2014, 03:38 AM
I feel that I can finish these last 2 years, just like I did the last 5 with the same injury, while deploying...the only requirement to deploy as far as waivers go is that you are able to run 100 meters. Not to mention i deserve full retirement PLUS disability, not just disability after doing 18 years.

I doubt you will find much sympathy here. I know that isn't what you are looking for though. If you step back and think about this though you might see where other people are coming from. The Air Force is looking to cut 25K people. Some very good people are on the chopping block and others have voluntarily left. The people who survive these cuts are going to be asked to do quite a bit. That probably includes deploying quite often. You aren't physically capable of doing a simple walk test. I can't really blame others for thinking you might be a good candidate for separation so we can keep someone else who is a little more mobile.

BRUWIN
02-09-2014, 04:06 AM
I doubt you will find much sympathy here.

That's bullshit...I have always had a good shoulder to cry on here.

snowman
02-09-2014, 04:16 AM
I get it, some people are being cut and they'd rather someone who gave his legs to the service be cut..makes sense but I am in sanctuary status as far as the cuts go, and I've deployed 3 times with my leg problems. it's not that I can not walk, it's that I can not speed walk, which is what you have to do in order to pass the new test. I passed the old walk test with the heart rate monitor just fine.

jshiver15
02-09-2014, 07:06 AM
I feel the same way as the other people on here. If YOU CAN NOT DO A SIMPLE WALK TEST then how can you stay in, and are you even deployable? If you can't do a walk test then get out and get compensated by the VA.

In many cases, yes . . you can still remain deployable. My buddy has had chronic knee issues for the past 8 years and he's about to go on his 4th deployment in that amount of time.

akruse
02-09-2014, 07:45 AM
I get it, some people are being cut and they'd rather someone who gave his legs to the service be cut..makes sense but I am in sanctuary status as far as the cuts go, and I've deployed 3 times with my leg problems. it's not that I can not walk, it's that I can not speed walk, which is what you have to do in order to pass the new test. I passed the old walk test with the heart rate monitor just fine.

Gave your legs to the service? I know quite a few people who have literally done so. I wouldn't go throwing that phrase around and expect much sympathy or understanding.

akruse
02-09-2014, 07:46 AM
I get it, some people are being cut and they'd rather someone who gave his legs to the service be cut..makes sense but I am in sanctuary status as far as the cuts go, and I've deployed 3 times with my leg problems. it's not that I can not walk, it's that I can not speed walk, which is what you have to do in order to pass the new test. I passed the old walk test with the heart rate monitor just fine.

Gave your legs to the service? I know quite a few people who have literally done so. I wouldn't go throwing that phrase around and expect much sympathy or understanding.

efmbman
02-09-2014, 10:58 AM
I get it, some people are being cut and they'd rather someone who gave his legs to the service be cut..makes sense but I am in sanctuary status as far as the cuts go, and I've deployed 3 times with my leg problems. it's not that I can not walk, it's that I can not speed walk, which is what you have to do in order to pass the new test. I passed the old walk test with the heart rate monitor just fine.


Gave your legs to the service? I know quite a few people who have literally done so. I wouldn't go throwing that phrase around and expect much sympathy or understanding.

Agreed - I was there when guys I know literally lost their legs. As long as you have the limbs attached, you did not give your legs to the service.

Stalwart
02-09-2014, 11:09 AM
These people gave their legs for the service:

3724

3725

3727

3726

Drackore
02-09-2014, 11:22 AM
Simple walk test?

You're a Marine, right? Retired or separated...something like that.

What do you know about the AF, AF deployments, AF PT, AF jobs?

Deployable to do what? Have you been on an AF deployment with Airmen, doing an AF job? Where did you go? Died? Dhafra? Oh, wait - the real dangerous one, Bagram?!?

Or are you just being opinionated?

Here's opinionated: You're an idiot.


I feel the same way as the other people on here. If YOU CAN NOT DO A SIMPLE WALK TEST then how can you stay in, and are you even deployable? If you can't do a walk test then get out and get compensated by the VA.

Drackore
02-09-2014, 11:31 AM
Double post

wxjumper
02-09-2014, 11:42 AM
dayaaaaaaaaaaaam!!! This thread got interesting quick.

imnohero
02-09-2014, 11:54 AM
yep, here we go with the macho BS about how others have made real sacrifices and "how dare you...blah blah blah".

snowman, pretty clear that no one here knows the answer to your question about the MEB thing.

VCO
02-09-2014, 11:56 AM
Simple walk test?

You're a Marine, right? Retired or separated...something like that.

What do you know about the AF, AF deployments, AF PT, AF jobs?

Deployable to do what? Have you been on an AF deployment with Airmen, doing an AF job? Where did you go? Died? Dhafra? Oh, wait - the real dangerous one, Bagram?!?

Or are you just being opinionated?

Here's opinionated: You're an idiot.
You don't speak for all of us. The AF job on an AF deployment isn't well defined. We've had airmen doing their peacetime job at the deid, but we've also had a lot of folks taking direct fire in convoys. Do we want your broken ass out there? No. You are a liability. Just because you haven't been asked to step up yet, doesn't mean you should not be viable.

Stalwart
02-09-2014, 11:56 AM
Not saying you haven't contributed, sacrificed etc snowman, but your choice of wording was pretty poor.

sandsjames
02-09-2014, 12:58 PM
yep, here we go with the macho BS about how others have made real sacrifices and "how dare you...blah blah blah".

snowman, pretty clear that no one here knows the answer to your question about the MEB thing.

Exactly...now I'm waiting for the "What are those people bitching about. I know people who died. I'm sure their families would have preferred they ONLY lost their legs."

akruse
02-09-2014, 03:04 PM
Exactly...now I'm waiting for the "What are those people bitching about. I know people who died. I'm sure their families would have preferred they ONLY lost their legs."

Not at all. Just don't try to play on peoples emotions when its only going to backfire on you.

Drackore
02-09-2014, 04:36 PM
How do I speak for all of us when I am asking billy badass Marine a question?

We've talked this topic to death, but I'll entertain you. You seem to crave it lately around here. Yes, I agree with you. Broke people shouldn't be deployed. Yes, I concur that broke people need to get better or get out. I also agree that quite a few of us don't have front line, in the shit jobs. Sometimes some of us get picked to go play Soldier, but that's about it. Everyone needs to be 100%. Yup. I don't think anyone here disagrees with that. HOWEVER - Are we kicking people out because they are not up to Army JET tasking standards? Gotta give that poor Private or Specialist a break from deploying from a force he joined on the same voluntary basis that we all joined the AF? That was the big stink, remember? "*I* didn't join the Army...why am I deploying to do an Army job?" This is coming from me, the guy that said his best and most memorable deployments were with the Army and on JET - not the craptastic typical AF bloated deployments at Club Med filling out Excel and Powerpoints.

And how many JET taskings will there be as we wind down Afghanistan? Hell I haven't even seen one come through the pipe in the past year. So does a comm guy need to escort convoys anymore? Does a CE guy need to bash down doors in the mean streets of Kabul?

Does a new walk test, which is done by people with an injury, that requires you Spyro speed walk five laps at the speed of the uninjured really determine ANYTHING? Hell we all debated what a 1.5 mile run determines - now we're going to debate what a 1.25 mi (2km) walk determines?

A Marine deployment is NOT an AF deployment. Can we agree on that? I'd venture to say that 99% of Marine deployments are a lot more taxing on the body and mind than 99% of AF deployments.

So that all said - please explain to me how any of this answers his question on "Does not walking trigger an MEB"?

It doesn't. OP - ask your doc.

AF is cutting 25k. People that won't heal, people that will heal...the "this isn't a one mistake AF" is over because now it is and those one mistakers are gone too.

You say "No, don't want broke ass people out there". That's fine. What are we left with? People that know how to play the game. Not best qualified...just people that played the politics.

Good luck with that. Drink some more Blue KoolAid.

How many wars did the US win with military members that could play politics? Would you rather have a guy that knew how to play the system out there on that convoy with you, or the guy who tweaked his back but can still sprint the 100 yards to cover, drive the truck, and shoot the gun?

And do NOT tell me that a guy that can't walk this new zippy 2km walk test can't run 100 or even 200 yards. I know two people that can disprove that right now. But let's get rid of them, and keep the system players. That's been working out for the AF for the past 5-10 yrs.

And FYI - I've got two others that were approved for surgeries to fix issues (but they are still deployable) that were then denied the operations. Why? Their MEBs started. Figure out that level of genius and PLEASE explain it to me.


You don't speak for all of us. The AF job on an AF deployment isn't well defined. We've had airmen doing their peacetime job at the deid, but we've also had a lot of folks taking direct fire in convoys. Do we want your broken ass out there? No. You are a liability. Just because you haven't been asked to step up yet, doesn't mean you should not be viable.

Absinthe Anecdote
02-09-2014, 05:24 PM
How do I speak for all of us when I am asking billy badass Marine a question?

We've talked this topic to death, but I'll entertain you. You seem to crave it lately around here. Yes, I agree with you. Broke people shouldn't be deployed. Yes, I concur that broke people need to get better or get out. I also agree that quite a few of us don't have front line, in the shit jobs. Sometimes some of us get picked to go play Soldier, but that's about it. Everyone needs to be 100%. Yup. I don't think anyone here disagrees with that. HOWEVER - Are we kicking people out because they are not up to Army JET tasking standards? Gotta give that poor Private or Specialist a break from deploying from a force he joined on the same voluntary basis that we all joined the AF? That was the big stink, remember? "*I* didn't join the Army...why am I deploying to do an Army job?" This is coming from me, the guy that said his best and most memorable deployments were with the Army and on JET - not the craptastic typical AF bloated deployments at Club Med filling out Excel and Powerpoints.

And how many JET taskings will there be as we wind down Afghanistan? Hell I haven't even seen one come through the pipe in the past year. So does a comm guy need to escort convoys anymore? Does a CE guy need to bash down doors in the mean streets of Kabul?

Does a new walk test, which is done by people with an injury, that requires you Spyro speed walk five laps at the speed of the uninjured really determine ANYTHING? Hell we all debated what a 1.5 mile run determines - now we're going to debate what a 1.25 mi (2km) walk determines?

A Marine deployment is NOT an AF deployment. Can we agree on that? I'd venture to say that 99% of Marine deployments are a lot more taxing on the body and mind than 99% of AF deployments.

So that all said - please explain to me how any of this answers his question on "Does not walking trigger an MEB"?

It doesn't. OP - ask your doc.

AF is cutting 25k. People that won't heal, people that will heal...the "this isn't a one mistake AF" is over because now it is and those one mistakers are gone too.

You say "No, don't want broke ass people out there". That's fine. What are we left with? People that know how to play the game. Not best qualified...just people that played the politics.

Good luck with that. Drink some more Blue KoolAid.

How many wars did the US win with military members that could play politics? Would you rather have a guy that knew how to play the system out there on that convoy with you, or the guy who tweaked his back but can still sprint the 100 yards to cover, drive the truck, and shoot the gun?

And do NOT tell me that a guy that can't walk this new zippy 2km walk test can't run 100 or even 200 yards. I know two people that can disprove that right now. But let's get rid of them, and keep the system players. That's been working out for the AF for the past 5-10 yrs.

And FYI - I've got two others that were approved for surgeries to fix issues (but they are still deployable) that were then denied the operations. Why? Their MEBs started. Figure out that level of genius and PLEASE explain it to me.

What makes you think that people who are savvy about the system are not good at their jobs?

There are plenty of people out their in top physical shape, who know how the system works, and are great at their jobs.

Just because a person is smart about human behavior (what you call politics or gaming the system) doesn't mean that they aren't also good at their jobs.

I know you think you are getting a raw deal, but that doesn't mean everyone who isn't, is some kind of scheming shit-bag that can't do their job.

BOSS302
02-09-2014, 08:47 PM
Gave your legs to the service? I know quite a few people who have literally done so. I wouldn't go throwing that phrase around and expect much sympathy or understanding.


Agreed - I was there when guys I know literally lost their legs. As long as you have the limbs attached, you did not give your legs to the service.


Not saying you haven't contributed, sacrificed etc snowman, but your choice of wording was pretty poor.


Not at all. Just don't try to play on peoples emotions when its only going to backfire on you.

You forgot to tear your hair out, rip your clothes, prostrate yourselves, and whatever else you feel is necessary to have people say, "Wow look at them."

VCO
02-09-2014, 09:30 PM
A Marine deployment is NOT an AF deployment. Can we agree on that? I'd venture to say that 99% of Marine deployments are a lot more taxing on the body and mind than 99% of AF deployments.



I don't agree with this. I deployed with Marines doing the same job they did for the same 6 months. A USMC deployment isn't a USAF TDY to the 'deid. But nothing is typical for the USAF right now. The AF is about options. If someone is broken to the point that we need to waiver his lack of ability to do something the rest of us are required to do, what logic exists to keep that airman around? Give him his VA benefits, a handshake and send him on his way. It is the same way the USMC operates and it makes sense. We aren't a charity.

imnohero
02-09-2014, 10:04 PM
If someone is broken to the point that we need to waiver his lack of ability to do something the rest of us are required to do, what logic exists to keep that airman around? .

I don't know, ask the MEB that said snowman was duty and deployment capable. Clearly someone in the AF doesn't think he is so "broken." Though I'm glad to see the AF has succeeded in instilling the "fitness culture."

sandsjames
02-09-2014, 10:28 PM
I don't agree with this. I deployed with Marines doing the same job they did for the same 6 months. A USMC deployment isn't a USAF TDY to the 'deid. But nothing is typical for the USAF right now. The AF is about options. If someone is broken to the point that we need to waiver his lack of ability to do something the rest of us are required to do, what logic exists to keep that airman around? Give him his VA benefits, a handshake and send him on his way. It is the same way the USMC operates and it makes sense. We aren't a charity.

Simple...the type of deployment you are talking about are few and far between. I know they happen, and I know you can come up with many stories of people you know, but for the majority of people it just doesn't happen.

BOSS302
02-09-2014, 10:33 PM
Simple...the type of deployment you are talking about are few and far between. I know they happen, and I know you can come up with many stories of people you know, but for the majority of people it just doesn't happen.

+1

sandsjames
02-09-2014, 10:56 PM
What makes you think that people who are savvy about the system are not good at their jobs?

There are plenty of people out their in top physical shape, who know how the system works, and are great at their jobs.

Just because a person is smart about human behavior (what you call politics or gaming the system) doesn't mean that they aren't also good at their jobs.

I know you think you are getting a raw deal, but that doesn't mean everyone who isn't, is some kind of scheming shit-bag that can't do their job.

I think you know what the point is. The point is that the job takes a back seat. Can someone be good all around? Of course. But when it comes head to head with a good worker and a good schemer, we know who's gonna win.

BRUWIN
02-09-2014, 11:47 PM
All I know is a couple months ago a young kid in my unit had failed his CDCs miserably but didn't hesitate too chime in one day that "anybody that can't pass the PT test deserves to be thrown out of the AF" because he scored over 90. Sure didn't give me a warm fuzzy about is being preached to these young Airman with regards to priorities these days. I know when I first came in in the early 80's failing your CDCs was a big deal...you may as well have rolled a joint and walked into the CCs office and lit it up. Nobody cares about CDC's anymore...it's just job stuff you'll never use because PT is the priority.

Absinthe Anecdote
02-09-2014, 11:54 PM
I think you know what the point is. The point is that the job takes a back seat. Can someone be good all around? Of course. But when it comes head to head with a good worker and a good schemer, we know who's gonna win.

I can understand where you are coming from, but I'll counter with this.

We humans are inherently flawed, therefore any organization or institution we create will also be inherently flawed.

If you accept that statement, you only have one choice, and that is to deal with it.

Sure, there are numerous ways to deal with an imperfect system, and I suppose hand wringing and crying foul is one of them, albeit an ineffective one.

I see no dishonor in being smart and savvy when it comes to navigating a bureaucracy or mastering the art of persuasion.

Can people become obnoxious and too reliant on their talking game and less reliant on their job performance? Sure they can.

However, that should never be an excuse to throw up ones hands and label everyone an ass kissing schemer.

A shit hot worker who focuses only on their primary duties and is unwilling or unable to hone their social skills and educate themselves on how an organization works is being one dimensional, and is just as seriously as flawed as any schemer.

Absinthe Anecdote
02-09-2014, 11:59 PM
All I know is a couple months ago a young kid in my unit had failed his CDCs miserably but didn't hesitate too chime in one day that "anybody that can't pass the PT test deserves to be thrown out of the AF" because he scored over 90. Sure didn't give me a warm fuzzy about is being preached to these young Airman with regards to priorities these days. I know when I first came in in the early 80's failing your CDCs was a big deal...you may as well have rolled a joint and walked into the CCs office and lit it up. Nobody cares about CDC's anymore...it's just job stuff you'll never use because PT is the priority.

There is no way that is a "true story."

snowman
02-10-2014, 12:10 AM
These people gave their legs for the service:

3724

3725

3727

3726


http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130711132208/mk_/images/2/25/Anchorman_well_that_escalated_quickly_966.jpg

VCO
02-10-2014, 12:30 AM
Simple...the type of deployment you are talking about are few and far between. I know they happen, and I know you can come up with many stories of people you know, but for the majority of people it just doesn't happen.depends on your AFSC. I dont see the point of having a standard and then allowing folks to get around it. Makes no sense.

AF Comm Guy
02-10-2014, 03:09 AM
Welcome to the board Snowman.

First question: Are you passing your PT tests with the given exemption? If you can still do the other components and pass then you're covered. You still have to test every six months, even with a 90+ score because of the exemption. The annual testing for 90+ scores is reserved for members who complete all components.

Second question: Who told you that a MEB is automatic with this exemption? If that person can't show you an AFI where it says that then tell them to stop talking out of their ass. Still, ask your PCM or the exercise physiologist who approves profiles to find out for sure. My take on this is that you are in recovery from major injury/surgery so this is not considered a chronic condition. The walking/running exemption is specific to your injury and anyone who has ever had to deal with rods and screws in their legs knows the healing process can take two years. This coupled with the fact that you have been previously boarded for your situation and are in the retirement sanctuary makes it very unlikely that you will be boarded again. Fight hard to get to 20 and get normal retirement. As you already know, there is no concurrent receipt of medical retirement and disability.

snowman
02-10-2014, 06:24 AM
Welcome to the board Snowman.

First question: Are you passing your PT tests with the given exemption? If you can still do the other components and pass then you're covered. You still have to test every six months, even with a 90+ score because of the exemption. The annual testing for 90+ scores is reserved for members who complete all components.

Second question: Who told you that a MEB is automatic with this exemption? If that person can't show you an AFI where it says that then tell them to stop talking out of their ass. Still, ask your PCM or the exercise physiologist who approves profiles to find out for sure. My take on this is that you are in recovery from major injury/surgery so this is not considered a chronic condition. The walking/running exemption is specific to your injury and anyone who has ever had to deal with rods and screws in their legs knows the healing process can take two years. This coupled with the fact that you have been previously boarded for your situation and are in the retirement sanctuary makes it very unlikely that you will be boarded again. Fight hard to get to 20 and get normal retirement. As you already know, there is no concurrent receipt of medical retirement and disability.

yes i've been scoring 90+ every six months on the old walk test and all other components. And it was my PCM who told me MEB was automatic with walk exemption, but the entire walk is now recorded as an exemption if you pass.

sandsjames
02-10-2014, 11:56 AM
depends on your AFSC. I dont see the point of having a standard and then allowing folks to get around it. Makes no sense.


I don't think anyone was talking about skirting the standards. There is no mention of not meeting a standard.

The only complaints are about the standards which are in place being heavily weighed against what logic dictates is actually meaningful to overall performance.

Chief_KO
02-10-2014, 11:59 AM
Actually there is concurrent receipt (receiving full retirement pay + VA disability) if the VA rates you at 50% or higher. Less than 50% and the amount of your VA disability is subtracted from your retired pay. That amount is then paid tax free from the VA.
Snowman,
Since your situation is unique and challenging, I would advise you to ask your local VSO (veteran service officer, each county has one) for advice towards filing you upcoming disability claim. He/she might be able to give you his/her "best guess" on what your rating might be.

CYBERFX1024
02-10-2014, 01:53 PM
Simple walk test?
You're a Marine, right? Retired or separated...something like that.
What do you know about the AF, AF deployments, AF PT, AF jobs?
Deployable to do what? Have you been on an AF deployment with Airmen, doing an AF job? Where did you go? Died? Dhafra? Oh, wait - the real dangerous one, Bagram?!?
Or are you just being opinionated?
Here's opinionated: You're an idiot.

Yes, a SIMPLE WALK TEST.

I am Marine yes. I was in 8 years from 2001-2009 and then I got out. I have done my job (2844 Communications Electronics Tech) both tactically while patrolling and knocking down doors, and at home station as part of the Commo platoon for the base.

I have been around plenty of Airmen while they are on deployment both at Bagram and on KAF while I was contractor and I had to support them.

I said deployable as in can they do what is required of them while they are deployed, and will the command even let them deploy medically wise?

I am very opinionated and I have earned that right to be.

The OP states that he is about 2 years from retirement should that should put him in the SNCO range and should have people he supervises. What kind of example does he make to those people he supervises? While they are PTing and worrying about being kicked out, all the while he is trying to get out of a simple walk test so he can retire. That does not make a good example in my eyes.
I had a officer in my first unit who was like that, while we were out doing mud runs and o courses, he was just standing there on the sidelines watching us while our MSgt was right there with us in the dirt and mud. No one in our platoon respected our platoon commander while we would die for our MSgt. So I wonder what his people think of him.

Yes, I am a Marine and I feel that I am opinionated. But at the same time the AF is in a state of flux right now and everyone here knows it. How many times I have I set here and seen y'all complain about not really having a clear mission anymore, and how your Generals are trying to make you Army Light the last decade or so? So it's right to say that when a airman/woman deploys that they don't know what their exact mission will be until they get there. You won't entirely know if you will get fapped out to some Marine or Army unit and have to do everything they do. As a contractor in Afghanistan, I saw it too many times where a Airmen is doing something totally out of their AFSC or job set.
So don't complain to me saying that I don't know how the Air Force is or how there PT is. My last duty station I had a SNCO who take us on runs for 4-8 miles long EVERY SINGLE DAY, 4 miles a day was an easy day for us. I am not in the best shape and I am not the fastest runner, but I ran it. So STFU

CYBERFX1024
02-10-2014, 01:54 PM
yep, here we go with the macho BS about how others have made real sacrifices and "how dare you...blah blah blah".
snowman, pretty clear that no one here knows the answer to your question about the MEB thing.

Blah blah blah? Have you ever been there when someone lost their legs due to IED? I have and it's not a pretty picture.

CYBERFX1024
02-10-2014, 02:22 PM
How do I speak for all of us when I am asking billy badass Marine a question?
We've talked this topic to death, but I'll entertain you. You seem to crave it lately around here. Yes, I agree with you. Broke people shouldn't be deployed. Yes, I concur that broke people need to get better or get out. I also agree that quite a few of us don't have front line, in the shit jobs. Sometimes some of us get picked to go play Soldier, but that's about it. Everyone needs to be 100%. Yup. I don't think anyone here disagrees with that. HOWEVER - Are we kicking people out because they are not up to Army JET tasking standards? Gotta give that poor Private or Specialist a break from deploying from a force he joined on the same voluntary basis that we all joined the AF? That was the big stink, remember? "*I* didn't join the Army...why am I deploying to do an Army job?" This is coming from me, the guy that said his best and most memorable deployments were with the Army and on JET - not the craptastic typical AF bloated deployments at Club Med filling out Excel and Powerpoints.

And how many JET taskings will there be as we wind down Afghanistan? Hell I haven't even seen one come through the pipe in the past year. So does a comm guy need to escort convoys anymore? Does a CE guy need to bash down doors in the mean streets of Kabul?

Does a new walk test, which is done by people with an injury, that requires you Spyro speed walk five laps at the speed of the uninjured really determine ANYTHING? Hell we all debated what a 1.5 mile run determines - now we're going to debate what a 1.25 mi (2km) walk determines?

AF is cutting 25k. People that won't heal, people that will heal...the "this isn't a one mistake AF" is over because now it is and those one mistakers are gone too.

You say "No, don't want broke ass people out there". That's fine. What are we left with? People that know how to play the game. Not best qualified...just people that played the politics.

How many wars did the US win with military members that could play politics? Would you rather have a guy that knew how to play the system out there on that convoy with you, or the guy who tweaked his back but can still sprint the 100 yards to cover, drive the truck, and shoot the gun?

And do NOT tell me that a guy that can't walk this new zippy 2km walk test can't run 100 or even 200 yards. I know two people that can disprove that right now. But let's get rid of them, and keep the system players. That's been working out for the AF for the past 5-10 yrs.
And FYI - I've got two others that were approved for surgeries to fix issues (but they are still deployable) that were then denied the operations. Why? Their MEBs started. Figure out that level of genius and PLEASE explain it to me.

How is calling me a "Billy Badass Marine" going to prove your point? Just because you got your panties in wad doesn't mean you can take it out on me. I totally concur with you about why are you guys trying to live up to the Army standards and deploying to do a Soldier's job.

The DOD is cutting a hell of alot of people right now, not just from the AF but the other branches as well. The Marine Corps is being tasked to do more than ever with a hell of alot less people. So they (Command) are trying to cut people that they see have some imperfection from years ago or can't do a simple test. You guys are always talking about how the AF is changing PT, and then making or breaking people's careers just because of the PT test.

I am all about keeping people in that can do the job. But I have seen far to many times where people try to use that disability or injury try to get out of doing simple basic work related stuff that goes along with their AFSC/MOS. I will give you an example; My last duty station was Parris Island SC as a Electronics Tech, basically fixing telephones and radios on the rifle range. But we were tasked with also doing the IT technicians jobs such as running CAT5, fiber, and fixing/replacing computers on site. All because they had some injury/disability that would not allow them to leave the office.

If someone can't do a walk test then how am I going to rely on him/her sprinting 100yards to safety with full battle rattle on? The simple answer is that I can't rely on that person at all. I knew guys that could run that distance with it on, but while carrying someone in a firemen's carry they can't go 10 yards without collapsing.

I can't explain that thinking to you at all. I have seen it happen myself to good Marines and it's a travesty. But that part has to coincide with your command and not the AF as a whole. You command must have wanted those people out and that's why they forced the issue.

sandsjames
02-10-2014, 04:20 PM
Yes, a SIMPLE WALK TEST.

I am Marine yes. I was in 8 years from 2001-2009 and then I got out. I have done my job (2844 Communications Electronics Tech) both tactically while patrolling and knocking down doors, and at home station as part of the Commo platoon for the base.

I have been around plenty of Airmen while they are on deployment both at Bagram and on KAF while I was contractor and I had to support them.

I said deployable as in can they do what is required of them while they are deployed, and will the command even let them deploy medically wise?

I am very opinionated and I have earned that right to be.

The OP states that he is about 2 years from retirement should that should put him in the SNCO range and should have people he supervises. What kind of example does he make to those people he supervises? While they are PTing and worrying about being kicked out, all the while he is trying to get out of a simple walk test so he can retire. That does not make a good example in my eyes.
I had a officer in my first unit who was like that, while we were out doing mud runs and o courses, he was just standing there on the sidelines watching us while our MSgt was right there with us in the dirt and mud. No one in our platoon respected our platoon commander while we would die for our MSgt. So I wonder what his people think of him.

Yes, I am a Marine and I feel that I am opinionated. But at the same time the AF is in a state of flux right now and everyone here knows it. How many times I have I set here and seen y'all complain about not really having a clear mission anymore, and how your Generals are trying to make you Army Light the last decade or so? So it's right to say that when a airman/woman deploys that they don't know what their exact mission will be until they get there. You won't entirely know if you will get fapped out to some Marine or Army unit and have to do everything they do. As a contractor in Afghanistan, I saw it too many times where a Airmen is doing something totally out of their AFSC or job set.
So don't complain to me saying that I don't know how the Air Force is or how there PT is. My last duty station I had a SNCO who take us on runs for 4-8 miles long EVERY SINGLE DAY, 4 miles a day was an easy day for us. I am not in the best shape and I am not the fastest runner, but I ran it. So STFU

This is an Air Force site...we don't come to your place and tell you how to organize a bake sale...

sandsjames
02-10-2014, 04:23 PM
Blah blah blah? Have you ever been there when someone lost their legs due to IED? I have and it's not a pretty picture.

That's cuz we joined the Air Force...not the Marines...again, I know it's rough, but please recognize the difference. Have you ever been where a TSgt trying to impress a Chief turned a hamburger at a Top 4 BBQ into a hockey puck because he thinks he's the only one in the unit who can cook? I have and it's NOT a pretty picture.

Mjölnir
02-10-2014, 04:40 PM
This is an Air Force site...we don't come to your place and tell you how to organize a bake sale...

Actually, this is the Air Force section of a military (joint) site.

Good one on the bake sale comment.

SomeRandomGuy
02-10-2014, 04:53 PM
That's cuz we joined the Air Force...not the Marines...again, I know it's rough, but please recognize the difference. Have you ever been where a TSgt trying to impress a Chief turned a hamburger at a Top 4 BBQ into a hockey puck because he thinks he's the only one in the unit who can cook? I have and it's NOT a pretty picture.

That's nothing. I once saw a customer try to enter finance at 1501 when the sign very clearly said they close at 1500 sharp. It wasn't pretty.

sandsjames
02-10-2014, 04:59 PM
That's nothing. I once saw a customer try to enter finance at 1501 when the sign very clearly said they close at 1500 sharp. It wasn't pretty.

It's chaos that other services just can't understand. If only they could serve a day in our boots. Try forgetting your reflective belt on a cloudy day. Not something you want to deal with.

WeaponsTSGT
02-10-2014, 05:31 PM
I was told being exempt from walk test (waist, situps, pushups only) would automatically generate a MEB. I showed the doctor the new regulation that states even if you pass the new walk test, it is recorded as an exempt at which point he was confused and had no idea anymore. So, I'm asking here. Is that true? I can't walk fast for the same reason I can't run. I passed every run test until injured and passed every "heart rate test" until they got rid of it. The new test I've tried, I physically can not go that fast without causing further injury to the reason I am not running.

Also, does TIS play an impact on MEB, ie...is does "sanctuary status" effect the outcome of a MEB?

Honestly depending on what your exact TIS is I wouldn't sweat it too much. Considering you were returned to service after a previous MEB, and you did say you were deploying, I would except another return to duty determination, especially if your PCM and CC were on board with you returning to service. Even if you are not returned to service you can apply for a program called LAS(limited assignment status) that allows you to return to duty even after you are found unfit. Lastly you could drag your MEB out close to 2 years just by taking the maximum number of days to return paperwork and filling all appeals/reconsideration's.

It's easy for others to say you don't deserve your retirement when others have lost their legs. But when you really look at it, I would rather have current day prosthetics, then to have legs of flesh that don't work nearly as well. Hell I've seen a guy with prosthetic legs run amazingly fast and almost qualify for the Olympics prior to murdering his girlfriend, I've yet to hear of anyone doing this with as much hardware as you claim to have. Sometimes you are better off losing a body part. After 18 years of service I think you have earned something, giving up concurrent receipt could cost you as much as $36k a year in retirement. The military is a good thing but should be held accountable for somebody who losses the ability to make a living after they leave, because they were injured in the line of duty. I think that even if the initiate an MEB you'll be fine. I'm really surprised your package hasn't gone to the DAWG yet.


PS-With that being said if you apply for TERA and get picked up, you still qualify for concurrent receipt, This to me would be the smart move, and this is considering they haven't started another MEB, because if they have then it's too late.

Stalwart
02-10-2014, 05:38 PM
http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130711132208/mk_/images/2/25/Anchorman_well_that_escalated_quickly_966.jpg

snowman sorry, but the choice of wording touched a nerve.



It's easy for others to say you don't deserve your retirement when others have lost their legs.

I don't think anyone said that or made that comparison, some questioned that if he is that injured maybe he should be separated. It was the statement that he had lost his legs for the service, when he actually is injured that got me a bit fired up.

snowman, I have some experience in working with VSO's. If you need any specific advice etc. just send me a PM.

CYBERFX1024
02-10-2014, 06:03 PM
This is an Air Force site...we don't come to your place and tell you how to organize a bake sale...

Well this isn't a Air Force Site. It's a Military blog with a Air Force Subsection

WeaponsTSGT
02-10-2014, 06:15 PM
snowman sorry, but the choice of wording touched a nerve.




I don't think anyone said that or made that comparison, some questioned that if he is that injured maybe he should be separated. It was the statement that he had lost his legs for the service, when he actually is injured that got me a bit fired up.

snowman, I have some experience in working with VSO's. If you need any specific advice etc. just send me a PM.

The comparison was made, I don't know the guy and don't know how he was injured, however it is quite possible that he no longer has quality use of his legs because of his service. You know what irritates me? When fellow service members don't stand by those that were injured in the line of duty, it can be debated all day about who has a worse injury, but as long as they were sustained in the line of duty the person is deserving of compensation. As far as concurrent receipt, I believe that someone who has given 18 years to the AF should be given the opportunity to retire, there are gobs of jobs within each squadron that does not require deploying, on top of it the guy said he can deploy. Like I told him I really can't see at this point that he gets booted on an MEB, especially since he's already been MEB'd for the same thing and was returned to duty.

Stalwart
02-10-2014, 06:33 PM
The comparison was made, I don't know the guy and don't know how he was injured, however it is quite possible that he no longer has quality use of his legs because of his service. You know what irritates me? When fellow service members don't stand by those that were injured in the line of duty, it can be debated all day about who has a worse injury, but as long as they were sustained in the line of duty the person is deserving of compensation.

Fair enough, and I won't argue that if someone is injured, we should take care of that. I won't argue about what is a more grievous injury or if an amputee would rather have some use of legs or whether someone with really bad knees would rather just use a prosthetic ... but to say you have lost your legs, when you haven't is a bit of a stretch. On top of that, I know there are a great number of people who leave the service with real no-kidding disabilities (even those who don't have 'combat injuries'.) I am 41, and after 23+ years still run 3 - 5 times a week despite the bad knees, bad hips and bad back that come from jumping out of an aircraft 247 times. I will probably qualify from some type of disability when I retire.

What irks me (not saying this is the case of the OP) is people who milk and clog the disability evaluation system with needless claims for the cash, points in the hiring matrix or a good parking spot by using a 'handicapped' placard that they can get because they got an ‘owwie’ while in the military -- and I hear less complaining from people with those real no-kidding terrible disabilities. Yes, many people serve, and I salute them all for that. If you get injured and it impacts your life -- that should be covered. Flooding the system with things that don't need to be there, depleting resources and wasting time when we should give it to people who really need it ... shameful.

sandsjames
02-10-2014, 09:08 PM
Well this isn't a Air Force Site. It's a Military blog with a Air Force Subsection

Well, thank you for giving your opinion, from a Marine, in the Air Force subsection. We'll be sure to treat your comments will due diligence.

sandsjames
02-10-2014, 09:12 PM
Fair enough, and I won't argue that if someone is injured, we should take care of that. I won't argue about what is a more grievous injury or if an amputee would rather have some use of legs or whether someone with really bad knees would rather just use a prosthetic ... but to say you have lost your legs, when you haven't is a bit of a stretch. On top of that, I know there are a great number of people who leave the service with real no-kidding disabilities (even those who don't have 'combat injuries'.) I am 41, and after 23+ years still run 3 - 5 times a week despite the bad knees, bad hips and bad back that come from jumping out of an aircraft 247 times. I will probably qualify from some type of disability when I retire.

What irks me (not saying this is the case of the OP) is people who milk and clog the disability evaluation system with needless claims for the cash, points in the hiring matrix or a good parking spot by using a 'handicapped' placard that they can get because they got an ‘owwie’ while in the military -- and I hear less complaining from people with those real no-kidding terrible disabilities. Yes, many people serve, and I salute them all for that. If you get injured and it impacts your life -- that should be covered. Flooding the system with things that don't need to be there, depleting resources and wasting time when we should give it to people who really need it ... shameful.

Honestly, the people to blame aren't the troops who file. The people to blame (if that's the right word) are the VA person, usually on the base, who fills out the paperwork and submits it. When I turned in my initial claim to the VA rep on base before I retired, I had to things on it. My back and my shoulder...more for future problems that are bound to happen as I get older. When I got called back into his office the form had 19 items on it...I was baffled, but sure enough there were references in my records to those items. I wasn't going to argue with the "expert" so the form got submitted with everything on it.

So it's not always (I'd say very rarely) the troop trying to weasel extra money from the system. I think the VA reps on bases must have some sort of competition going with each other to see who can get the most claims accepted annually or something.

wxjumper
02-11-2014, 04:38 AM
It's chaos that other services just can't understand. If only they could serve a day in our boots. Try forgetting your reflective belt on a cloudy day. Not something you want to deal with.

Don't get me started, I once saw a guy not clap with everybody else as we sung the Air Force song during a Commander's Call. I shit you not, mid-song the Chief grabbed the airman by the arm and lead him out of the theater. Nobody ever saw the kid again. I doubt the Marines ever had to put up with that much adversity in their job.

Drackore
02-11-2014, 10:32 AM
I'll give you the nod that I was a little out of line calling you Billy Badass Marine. However, at the same time yes, I can take it out on you and solely you when you come into the AF section and start spouting off like you know. My dad was 20 yr Marine, so I lived that dependent life - now go find how many posts of mine you can find in the Marine section.

Yes we agree on the DOD cutting people (probably cutting too many people) in all services. Yes, PT in the AF makes and breaks a career. An E1-E6 can fail and recover, an E7-E8 might as well kiss any chance of promotion goodbye. Add to that the 25K cuts, and when they run out of people who had Art 15s, UIFs and Control Rosters..they will start taking people that failed a PT test recently.

We also agree on keeping people that can do the job. Which job? Of course, the right answer is "The job your supervisor and CC tell you to do". We can and will grumble over that answer, because it is kool aid so full of cyanide that you don't even taste the flavor anymore. However, that's the only answer that works. Same turn though - OP was returned to duty and made deployable by his last MEB. Docs said he can do the job...until it changes, again, because some CC said "go do X, Y, and Z" when he is in a career field to do A, B, and C.

This new AF walk test is no joke. This isn't "take a leisurely stroll around a track and keep your heart rate down" anymore. This is a walk test with times and distance really designed to give a healthy, uninjured person a decent work out. Unless you are a marathon runner, I challenge everyone to give it a shot. Instead of your morning jog or whatever, try to walk 2km in the times set (for 40+, it's like 16:27 or less). Now imagine doing that with a bad knee or a bad back.

That's where the OPs concern is. I have a bad back from my last deployment. I've told my story on here countless times. I can do this walk test...and it hurts like a muthfucka. Guess what hurts far less - sprinting in full battle rattle for 100 yards. I can do that twice actually before the back injury starts to slow me down. Not bragging - just trying to show a difference. That all said - you are talking Marine Corps where it is a far greater occurance to sprint 100 yards, grab a buddy and fireman carry them to cover. It happens in the AF...but come on? Apples and oranges buddy.

And we're not talking about even what the command wants. A CC can write a letter to the MEB saying "please please please keep this guy" or even the opposite. It might weigh in, but the MEB has ultimate say.

And for the record - even in my last Army deployment, the AF tried everything it could to keep me inside the wire. I was a SNCO, and I had paperwork to do. So when you start hitting that 16 yr mark, a lot of career fields that deploy SNCOs usually plant them behind a desk anyways. War and even war support = for the young.


How is calling me a "Billy Badass Marine" going to prove your point? Just because you got your panties in wad doesn't mean you can take it out on me. I totally concur with you about why are you guys trying to live up to the Army standards and deploying to do a Soldier's job.

The DOD is cutting a hell of alot of people right now, not just from the AF but the other branches as well. The Marine Corps is being tasked to do more than ever with a hell of alot less people. So they (Command) are trying to cut people that they see have some imperfection from years ago or can't do a simple test. You guys are always talking about how the AF is changing PT, and then making or breaking people's careers just because of the PT test.

I am all about keeping people in that can do the job. But I have seen far to many times where people try to use that disability or injury try to get out of doing simple basic work related stuff that goes along with their AFSC/MOS. I will give you an example; My last duty station was Parris Island SC as a Electronics Tech, basically fixing telephones and radios on the rifle range. But we were tasked with also doing the IT technicians jobs such as running CAT5, fiber, and fixing/replacing computers on site. All because they had some injury/disability that would not allow them to leave the office.

If someone can't do a walk test then how am I going to rely on him/her sprinting 100yards to safety with full battle rattle on? The simple answer is that I can't rely on that person at all. I knew guys that could run that distance with it on, but while carrying someone in a firemen's carry they can't go 10 yards without collapsing.

I can't explain that thinking to you at all. I have seen it happen myself to good Marines and it's a travesty. But that part has to coincide with your command and not the AF as a whole. You command must have wanted those people out and that's why they forced the issue.

Stalwart
02-11-2014, 12:46 PM
Honestly, the people to blame aren't the troops who file. The people to blame (if that's the right word) are the VA person, usually on the base, who fills out the paperwork and submits it. When I turned in my initial claim to the VA rep on base before I retired, I had to things on it. My back and my shoulder...more for future problems that are bound to happen as I get older. When I got called back into his office the form had 19 items on it...I was baffled, but sure enough there were references in my records to those items. I wasn't going to argue with the "expert" so the form got submitted with everything on it.

When I was working on Capitol Hill and talking with reps from the VA, what you state is a big part of the problem, in the 80's and 90's the average claim had 2-3 issues, now they average 7-8 ... so more to process; I would suppose the logic is "let's put everything possible on there and see what you get." At the same time I am also soapboxing to the VA for veteran's who complain to their Senator about slow claims processing, the most egregious case was a double amputee and loss of an eye vet (OIF) who had waited 28 months for his benefits.


So it's not always (I'd say very rarely) the troop trying to weasel extra money from the system.

Yes and no ... but (IMO) that doesn't excuse the fact that it is the individual making the claim, signing the form requesting something that may or may not actually be bothering/impacting them. If I have a travel clerk submit a travel claim for me, I still sign it and am responsible for the claim. But I think the allure of 'free money' is pretty hard for people to resist. Even here on MTF related to VA claims I have read posts saying [paraphrasing] "take everything you can get" which seems to encourage applying for and requesting benefits for something that maybe people shouldn't.

I think if VA benefits 'fraud' were pursued as much as worker's compensation fraud I would see a lot fewer 'disabled' vets here with bad backs and knees who still get out and play basketball or football etc.

sandsjames
02-11-2014, 02:15 PM
Yes and no ... but (IMO) that doesn't excuse the fact that it is the individual making the claim, signing the form requesting something that may or may not actually be bothering/impacting them. If I have a travel clerk submit a travel claim for me, I still sign it and am responsible for the claim. But I think the allure of 'free money' is pretty hard for people to resist. Even here on MTF related to VA claims I have read posts saying [paraphrasing] "take everything you can get" which seems to encourage applying for and requesting benefits for something that maybe people shouldn't.

I think if VA benefits 'fraud' were pursued as much as worker's compensation fraud I would see a lot fewer 'disabled' vets here with bad backs and knees who still get out and play basketball or football etc.

What I was told was that I couldn't possibly know what things would come back to bother me 20 years from now so, if it was in my records, put it on the paper. I guess this is true to a point. Something minor now may not be so minor as one ages. So it's hard to really know which direction to go. Do I only list things I know are hurting me now? Or do I get them in the records ASAP to show deterioration over the years? It's a tough call.

CYBERFX1024
02-11-2014, 03:15 PM
What I was told was that I couldn't possibly know what things would come back to bother me 20 years from now so, if it was in my records, put it on the paper. I guess this is true to a point. Something minor now may not be so minor as one ages. So it's hard to really know which direction to go. Do I only list things I know are hurting me now? Or do I get them in the records ASAP to show deterioration over the years? It's a tough call.

I am in full agreement with you on this. I am one of those people that believe the VA will start tighten up on giving disabilities out once these wars die down. That is why I put my claim in stating facts that I have dealt with before (High Blood Pressure) but it is now under control due to medication. Because I don't want to put a claim in for it 20 years down the road, and they ask me why didn't I do it sooner? I have also went in for one thing (PTSD) and they have concluded that I have mild TBI as well due to some of my symptoms (short term memory loss). Now for my bp I got 0% but at least it's on record with the VA, my TBI is rated at 10%. But all I can say is that at least everything is annotated and on record so that if it manifests later on down the road, then I can get treatment for it.

Chief_KO
02-11-2014, 05:25 PM
As stated earlier...list everything that bothers you now, list everything you've been seen for, list all surgeries. Simply listing things does not give you a disability rating. It gives the VA Comp & Pen examiner a list of things to check. The results of that examination will determined what is (or is not rated). Say you list back pain (which you get occasionally, but it goes away via rest, stretching, Motrin, chiropractor, etc.). On the day of your exam your back is fine and you pass the range of motion/pain tests with no issue: Rating 0%. Flash forward five years, you are now dianosed with degenerative disk disease, etc. Now, you can go back to the VA and appeal the original 0% rating. Let's say you are now rated at 20%, effective the date of your appeal. Now, if you didn't list back pain the VA could (would) say "sorry, but this is not a service-connected disability."
VA disability is not the same thing as being "disabled" in the traditional sense. Yes there are abusers, but in my experience the Comp & Pen exam is thorough to screen out the majority of fakers.
For all those that whine about USAF not caring about you after you retire/separate that is mostly true. The agency that "cares" for you after your service is the VA, and they will only care for you when you apply, ask, and request.
That is the big difference today from before (IMO). With TAP, social media, DAV/VFW/Legion/AmVets, etc. there is a lot more information provided to the soon to separate/retire regarding benefits that they may be eligible for.
Warfare has changed...the comm Airman from Vietnam who served his entire tour at the base more than likely did not get exposed to any hazards (other than VD), took fire, etc. The comm troop from OIF/OEF might have been in a convoy that was attacked, FOB that was rocketed, burn pits, casualty evacuations, etc.

WeaponsTSGT
02-11-2014, 05:35 PM
Fair enough, and I won't argue that if someone is injured, we should take care of that. I won't argue about what is a more grievous injury or if an amputee would rather have some use of legs or whether someone with really bad knees would rather just use a prosthetic ... but to say you have lost your legs, when you haven't is a bit of a stretch. On top of that, I know there are a great number of people who leave the service with real no-kidding disabilities (even those who don't have 'combat injuries'.) I am 41, and after 23+ years still run 3 - 5 times a week despite the bad knees, bad hips and bad back that come from jumping out of an aircraft 247 times. I will probably qualify from some type of disability when I retire.

What irks me (not saying this is the case of the OP) is people who milk and clog the disability evaluation system with needless claims for the cash, points in the hiring matrix or a good parking spot by using a 'handicapped' placard that they can get because they got an ‘owwie’ while in the military -- and I hear less complaining from people with those real no-kidding terrible disabilities. Yes, many people serve, and I salute them all for that. If you get injured and it impacts your life -- that should be covered. Flooding the system with things that don't need to be there, depleting resources and wasting time when we should give it to people who really need it ... shameful.

One thing you have to remember is that the VA are the ones telling the VETS to claim anything and everything. I'll tell you what irks me about the system. I have had 7 back surgeries in 5 years(duty related) with a possible 8th due to complications from the last, prior to my back injury I ran 25-30 miles a week and cycled 200+ in the summer and this was before the PT test really took wings. I was regionally ranked in triathlon and headed to the Armed Forces triathlon, now I work maximum of 4 hours a day and I'm under MEB. The back is such a hard diagnosis, and being that I've seen several people medically retired after 6 months of treatment on their back, no surgeries. I am limited in the length I can walk as well as sit and take several medications daily because of it. Yet when it comes to ratings, even though my life is severely impacted as well as my ability to continue working I'll most likely be rated close to the same as those that have what I would say is a minor injury. This is because back injuries are easy to fake, and those with serious back injuries are only rated off of range of motion, not future impact to employment. I would like to see more TDRL ratings reevaluated at 6 months/a year and higher ratings for those that can no longer work. I empathize with the OP since I'm at 18.5 years TIS, I'm at home on convalescent leave and have been for 6 weeks following a spinal cord stimulator implant. If my MEB had been started 6 months later I would of been able to retire via TERA and received concurrent receipt, now I'm having to apply for SSDI just to get to a point that I might be able to work again. There are fraudulent claims but I thing that the DOD/VA encourage a lot of it.

BRUWIN
02-11-2014, 08:25 PM
As stated earlier...list everything that bothers you now, list everything you've been seen for, list all surgeries. Simply listing things does not give you a disability rating. It gives the VA Comp & Pen examiner a list of things to check. The results of that examination will determined what is (or is not rated). Say you list back pain (which you get occasionally, but it goes away via rest, stretching, Motrin, chiropractor, etc.). On the day of your exam your back is fine and you pass the range of motion/pain tests with no issue: Rating 0%. Flash forward five years, you are now dianosed with degenerative disk disease, etc. Now, you can go back to the VA and appeal the original 0% rating. Let's say you are now rated at 20%, effective the date of your appeal. Now, if you didn't list back pain the VA could (would) say "sorry, but this is not a service-connected disability."


This is exactly what I did. Yeah...I could have appealed as the MRI's definately show four hierniated disks that at one time they wanted to fuse. But My back wasn't hurting the day I went in so I got 0%. The key is...the VA can give me more later on if I have problems so I am not too worried about it. Right now I can work for a living...and that's blessing enough.

BRUWIN
02-11-2014, 08:27 PM
Honestly, the people to blame aren't the troops who file. The people to blame (if that's the right word) are the VA person, usually on the base, who fills out the paperwork and submits it. When I turned in my initial claim to the VA rep on base before I retired, I had to things on it. My back and my shoulder...more for future problems that are bound to happen as I get older. When I got called back into his office the form had 19 items on it...I was baffled, but sure enough there were references in my records to those items. I wasn't going to argue with the "expert" so the form got submitted with everything on it.

So it's not always (I'd say very rarely) the troop trying to weasel extra money from the system. I think the VA reps on bases must have some sort of competition going with each other to see who can get the most claims accepted annually or something.

The VA reps are usually volunteers that are only trying to do you right and in the end I think the government get's screwed in a lot of cases.

BRUWIN
02-11-2014, 08:30 PM
There is no way that is a "true story."

In all seriousness it is a very true story. And as a civilian now I just had to walk away from the group he was talking to and shake my head.

BRUWIN
02-11-2014, 08:55 PM
Yes, I am a Marine and I feel that I am opinionated. But at the same time the AF is in a state of flux right now and everyone here knows it. How many times I have I set here and seen y'all complain about not really having a clear mission anymore, and how your Generals are trying to make you Army Light the last decade or so?

Nobody can use the term "Army Light" because they are as fat...if not fatter...than the rest of the services. Also....I am with the Marines right now and have been pretty amazed as to what I've seen with regards to pushing the scales. Don't get me wrong...they can run and can pump some iron...but you would never tell by looking at some of them. It's been a real eye opener.

CYBERFX1024
02-11-2014, 09:39 PM
Nobody can use the term "Army Light" because they are as fat...if not fatter...than the rest of the services. Also....I am with the Marines right now and have been pretty amazed as to what I've seen with regards to pushing the scales. Don't get me wrong...they can run and can pump some iron...but you would never tell by looking at some of them. It's been a real eye opener.

I am not going to lie to you at all. But we have some fat ones as well and the majority of those are in the admin field or in the Air Wing. Then you have some guys like me who are tend be alittle over our max weight and we have to tape out just to pass. But even now the majority of those are out due to the more stringent PT requirements that came down due to height and weight.

VCO
02-11-2014, 10:01 PM
I am not going to lie to you at all. But we have some fat ones as well and the majority of those are in the admin field or in the Air Wing. Then you have some guys like me who are tend be alittle over our max weight and we have to tape out just to pass. But even now the majority of those are out due to the more stringent PT requirements that came down due to height and weight.

I've seen some fat Marines and I've seen some fat Airmen. I'm pretty sure both services deal with that issue. I do think the Air Force is more competitive physically with the USMC now than even 4 years ago. I PFTed with a hundred or so Marines and was closer to the front of the pack on the run portion. I'm not a super strong runner either.

MisterBen
02-11-2014, 10:54 PM
Who would think if the OP was offered 5 million dollars to run 5 miles; he would find the intestinal fortitude to complete that feat?

Ooh Rah!!!

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/signalwarrant/fatty.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/signalwarrant/media/fatty.jpg.html)

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/signalwarrant/di.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/signalwarrant/media/di.jpg.html)

sandsjames
02-11-2014, 11:23 PM
Who would think if the OP was offered 5 million dollars to run 5 miles; he would find the intestinal fortitude to complete that feat?

Ooh Rah!!!

Oh dear God...the level in here just dropped real quick.

WeaponsTSGT
02-12-2014, 01:12 AM
The VA reps are usually volunteers that are only trying to do you right and in the end I think the government get's screwed in a lot of cases.

He was reffering to the MSC not VSO rep, and they are all paid workers.

sandsjames
02-12-2014, 01:15 AM
He was reffering to the MSC not VSO rep, and they are all paid workers.

Don't know the title other than "The VA guy"...but, yeah, he gets paid. Also briefs at TAP and all that good stuff.

CYBERFX1024
02-12-2014, 03:34 AM
Who would think if the OP was offered 5 million dollars to run 5 miles; he would find the intestinal fortitude to complete that feat?
Ooh Rah!!!
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/signalwarrant/fatty.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/signalwarrant/media/fatty.jpg.html)
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/signalwarrant/di.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/signalwarrant/media/di.jpg.html)

I can tell someone has been looking at JTTOTS and PBF, hell even Knife Hands. But yeah there are some ate up Marines as well. She is one of the reasons I RAN AWAY from Parris Island. There are too many Marines used to dealing with recruits all day and forget how to actually talk to Marines.

BOSS302
02-12-2014, 10:16 AM
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/signalwarrant/fatty.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/signalwarrant/media/fatty.jpg.html)

[/URL]

BRUWIN?

dan5522
02-12-2014, 10:34 AM
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/signalwarrant/fatty.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/signalwarrant/media/fatty.jpg.html)



I see this and all I have is Full Metal Jacket quotes running through my head!

This must be the "real life" Pvt Pyle! lol

Absinthe Anecdote
02-12-2014, 10:38 AM
http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f252/signalwarrant/fatty.jpg (http://s49.photobucket.com/user/signalwarrant/media/fatty.jpg.html)



I see this and all I have is Full Metal Jacket quotes running through my head!

This must be the "real life" Pvt Pyle! lol

Pvt Pyle would look like a Greek God beside that guy.

MisterBen
02-12-2014, 11:48 AM
I can tell someone has been looking at JTTOTS and PBF, hell even Knife Hands. But yeah there are some ate up Marines as well. She is one of the reasons I RAN AWAY from Parris Island. There are too many Marines used to dealing with recruits all day and forget how to actually talk to Marines.

I concur. But a good thing I never witnessed that when I was on the Island.

Somebody made a reference about soft Bagram but sad news there.

DOD Identifies Army Casualty

The Department of Defense announced today the death of a soldier who was supporting Operation Enduring Freedom.

Pfc. Joshua A. Gray, 21, of Van Lear, Ky., died Feb. 10, in Bagram Airfield, Afghanistan, from a non-combat related incident currently under investigation.

He was assigned to the Headquarters and Headquarters Battalion, 10th Mountain Division, Fort Drum, N.Y.

For more information, media may contact the Fort Drum public affairs office at 315-772-8286.

socal1200r
02-12-2014, 12:27 PM
I'm sort of in the same boat, with an LOD injury that's resulted in numerous, on-going PT profiles. I tell anyone who will listen that the standards are VERY different between deployability and PFT. According to AFI48-123, Section 13.2.5, one only needs to be able to run 100 yards. Not walk a mile and half, or run a mile and a half, or do situps, pushups, waist measurement, etc. So what does the AF want? Someone to deploy or someone who can pass a PFT? Me personally, I'd rather have airmen who know their jobs and can deploy, passing a PFT would be the least of my worries. I have a funny feeling that I'm going to be referred for an MEB again. The previous time, I was offered a "discharge with lump sum severance" package, which I declined, because I'm not getting "discharged" after putting in all these years, and have my military "history" wiped clean. If this is the route that they're going to take, I'm going to push for a medical retirement, so I can keep my TriCare coverage. And with the additional medical record items of sleep apnea (CPAP), depression medication (service-related), etc., maybe they'll own up to how they've screwed up my life, and medically retire me, which I'll glady accept.

BRUWIN
02-12-2014, 08:47 PM
I'm sort of in the same boat, with an LOD injury that's resulted in numerous, on-going PT profiles. I tell anyone who will listen that the standards are VERY different between deployability and PFT. According to AFI48-123, Section 13.2.5, one only needs to be able to run 100 yards. Not walk a mile and half, or run a mile and a half, or do situps, pushups, waist measurement, etc. So what does the AF want? Someone to deploy or someone who can pass a PFT? Me personally, I'd rather have airmen who know their jobs and can deploy, passing a PFT would be the least of my worries. I have a funny feeling that I'm going to be referred for an MEB again. The previous time, I was offered a "discharge with lump sum severance" package, which I declined, because I'm not getting "discharged" after putting in all these years, and have my military "history" wiped clean. If this is the route that they're going to take, I'm going to push for a medical retirement, so I can keep my TriCare coverage. And with the additional medical record items of sleep apnea (CPAP), depression medication (service-related), etc., maybe they'll own up to how they've screwed up my life, and medically retire me, which I'll glady accept.

Well if the AF is screwing up your life than why stay in? And to be honest...I doubt the AF is to blame for depression unless you were ducking bullets somewhere...which maybe you had been. But if you hadn't...I can't see where the AF itself is to blame for depression, and if it was...well you should have gotten out. And to this day I fail to see how sleep apnea is in any way service related...unless your first sergeant tries to suffocate you with a pillow each night.

WeaponsTSGT
02-12-2014, 08:54 PM
And to this day I fail to see how sleep apnea is in any way service related...unless your first sergeant tries to suffocate you with a pillow each night.

I'm sure there are many medical scenarios/diagnosis that you fail to see, maybe we should leave the medical up to the medical professionals.

PburghNo1
02-12-2014, 08:57 PM
And to be honest...I doubt the AF is to blame for depression unless you were ducking bullets somewhere...which maybe you had been.

At the risk of biting one of your many hooks, I encourage you to go tell that to those that work at a TMEP (Theater Mortuary Evacuation Point), Dover Port Mortuary, field hospitals, hospital at Landshtul/Ramstein, Medevac aircrews or as a FAR (formerly FLO)...

BRUWIN
02-12-2014, 08:57 PM
I'm sure there are many medical scenarios/diagnosis that you fail to see, maybe we should leave the medical up to the medical professionals.

STFU...are you a democrat? I know scams when I see them. I'm not saying that guy is scamming but further questioning would help me determine if he is.

BRUWIN
02-12-2014, 09:08 PM
At the risk of biting one of your many hooks, I encourage you to go tell that to those that work at a TMEP (Theater Mortuary Evacuation Point), Dover Port Mortuary, field hospitals, hospital at Landshtul/Ramstein, Medevac aircrews or as a FAR (formerly FLO)...

You can STFU too. Obviously various situations apply so I don't need those brought to my attention. My point is...VA is turning into a big scam. I know two individuals that retired the same time as me getting 100% disability and can still work for contractors making big bucks off that, their VA, and the AF retirement. And both these cases are scams...if they can work than 100% disability should even be a consideration. It's a freaking joke! I busted my ass to where I got for my retirement pay and these guys are raking in more than me and still working! I don't see either being stopped from doing anything. Read their facebook page and they are living pretty good right now. And yet a month or two ago a few 9/11 first responders got caught doing the same and they are looking at jail time. The hammer should come down on fakes because it will only hurt the people that truly deserve it later on when the government realizes they can't afford to give disability anymore.

PburghNo1
02-12-2014, 09:20 PM
You can STFU too. Obviously various situations apply so I don't need those brought to my attention. My point is...VA is turning into a big scam. I know two individuals that retired the same time as me getting 100% disability and can still work for contractors making big bucks off that, their VA, and the AF retirement. And both these cases are scams...if they can work than 100% disability should even be a consideration. It's a freaking joke! I busted my ass to where I got for my retirement pay and these guys are raking in more than me and still working! I don't see either being stopped from doing anything. Read their facebook page and they are living pretty good right now. And yet a month or two ago a few 9/11 first responders got caught doing the same and they are looking at jail time. The hammer should come down on fakes because it will only hurt the people that truly deserve it later on when the government realizes they can't afford to give disability anymore.

Completely agree that it can be a scam. Problem is, you didn't say that until now. You said you "doubt the AF is to blame" for this depression. I just don't think the prevailing opinion (which you expressed so eloquently) that "ducking bullets" is the only situation where one might become depressed (or disabled) in connection with service is valid. "Ducking bullets" is a given, but if all people thought that was the ONLY thing that can cause a disability, we'd be doing a great many vets a disservice. That's all. Jeez...

BRUWIN
02-12-2014, 09:40 PM
Completely agree that it can be a scam. Problem is, you didn't say that until now. You said you "doubt the AF is to blame" for this depression. I just don't think the prevailing opinion (which you expressed so eloquently) that "ducking bullets" is the only situation where one might become depressed (or disabled) in connection with service is valid. "Ducking bullets" is a given, but if all people thought that was the ONLY thing that can cause a disability, we'd be doing a great many vets a disservice. That's all. Jeez...

I apologize. But the whole VA thing gets me spun up. I now see those retiring in 2-3 years counting on VA disability...I'm hearing things like "yeah...when I retire I'll get $***** in retirement pay and at least 50% in disability pay." I had a guy tell me that about 3-4 months ago and I just had to shake my head. If he can do 2-3 years more in the military than how is he even disabled? It's become a real racket.

WeaponsTSGT
02-12-2014, 10:57 PM
You can STFU too. Obviously various situations apply so I don't need those brought to my attention. My point is...VA is turning into a big scam. I know two individuals that retired the same time as me getting 100% disability and can still work for contractors making big bucks off that, their VA, and the AF retirement. And both these cases are scams...if they can work than 100% disability should even be a consideration. It's a freaking joke! I busted my ass to where I got for my retirement pay and these guys are raking in more than me and still working! I don't see either being stopped from doing anything. Read their facebook page and they are living pretty good right now. And yet a month or two ago a few 9/11 first responders got caught doing the same and they are looking at jail time. The hammer should come down on fakes because it will only hurt the people that truly deserve it later on when the government realizes they can't afford to give disability anymore.

First off 100% disability rating through the VA doesn't mean unemployable, you might want to investigate a bit more before you throw the STFU's around, kind of sucks you can no longer intimidate anyone now that you're retired. The VA set the standard for the disability ratings, tell me what is someone supposed to do walk away from it? There are just as many out there that get hosed by the VA as those that get over, so save it.

BRUWIN
02-12-2014, 11:41 PM
First off 100% disability rating through the VA doesn't mean unemployable, you might want to investigate a bit more before you throw the STFU's around, kind of sucks you can no longer intimidate anyone now that you're retired. The VA set the standard for the disability ratings, tell me what is someone supposed to do walk away from it? There are just as many out there that get hosed by the VA as those that get over, so save it.

So 100% disability means you can make $80,000-$100,000 with a contractor, add in your retirement benefit, and full up VA disability? If anything...the military hooked you up with the skills to take a pretty handsomely paying job doing almost exactly what you did before you got out so I don't think they owe you jack squat for disabilty because you AREN"T DISABLED. I don't think they owe you any disability because you can work! Mind telling me WTF 100% disability does mean? To the some of the folks I see getting it it means a sweet 9:00am-5:00pm contractor gig while getting E-7 retirement pay with another tax free $3,000 a month thrown onto that. It's no wonder one of them was frolickling in the waves in Mississippi this last weekend and gambling at night after a nice dinner. Damn, wish I could afford to do that. But mark my words, the issue will come to the forefront after this war is over and we are all home. There is a lot of reservation about screwing with VA disabilty because alot of it is truly deserved for those that were shotup or otherwise scarred by war and politicians don't want to touch it. It is to politically sensitive to even talk about so close to the end of the war. It's even a very sensitive subject amoung veterens as I am finding out. Some feel the way I do...and some feel like we are owed the world. But the day is coming and people faking it will lose their cash cow. If they can put NYC cops/firemen in jail on fraud charges for doing the exact same thing after 9/11...I see no difference...it's gonna end. I just hope the people that truly deserve it aren't screwed in the process.

Oh..and if you go back to my posts when I was in uniform I think you'll find I never intimidated folks back then either. That was never my mission for coming here. If I wanted to intimidate someone as a Chief this is probably the last place I would have come. I seem to remember quit a few F-Off's directed my way in this forum back then and it definately helped keep me grounded. So STFU.

BOSS302
02-13-2014, 01:02 AM
So 100% disability means you can make $80,000-$100,000 with a contractor, add in your retirement benefit, and the full up VA benefit? If anything...the military hooked you up with the skills to take a pretty handsomely paying job doing almost exactly what you did before you got out so I don't think they owe you jack squat for disabilty because you AREN"T DISABLED. I don't think they owe you any disability because you can work! Mind telling me WTF 100% disability does mean? To me it means you cannot work. To the some of the folks I see getting it it means a sweet 9-5pm contractor gig while getting E-7 retirement pay with another tax free $3,000 thrown onto that. It's no wonder one of them was frolickling in the waves in Mississippi this last weekend and gambling at night after a nice dinner. Damn, wish I could afford to do that. But mark my words, the issue will come to the forefront after this war is over and we are all home. There is a lot of reservation about screwing with VA disabilty because alot of it is truly deserved for those that were shotup or otherwise scarred by war and politicians don't want to touch it. It very politically sensitive so close to the end of the war. It's even a very sensitive subject amoung veterens as I am finding out. Some feel the way I do...and some feel like we are owed the world. But the day is coming and people faking it will lose their cash cow. If they can put NYC cops/firemen in jail on fraud charges for doing the exact same thing after 9/11...I see no difference...it's gonna end. I just hope the people that truly deserve it aren't screwed in the process.

Oh..and if you go back to my posts when I was in uniform I think you'll find I never intimidated folks back then either because that was never my mission. If I wanted to intimidate someone as a Chief this is probably the last place I would have come. I seem to remember quit a few FO's in this forum back then and it definately helped keep me grounded. So STFU.


http://static2.businessinsider.com/image/51d96f28eab8eafa0f000020/ufc-fighter-anderson-silva-got-knocked-out-cold-while-trying-to-taunt-his-opponent.jpg

MisterBen
02-13-2014, 03:03 AM
First off 100% disability rating through the VA doesn't mean unemployable, you might want to investigate a bit more before you throw the STFU's around, kind of sucks you can no longer intimidate anyone now that you're retired. The VA set the standard for the disability ratings, tell me what is someone supposed to do walk away from it? There are just as many out there that get hosed by the VA as those that get over, so save it.

Bravo!! +100

I am still employable but had surgery on my leg due to a combat related injury in Iraq. I still walk in pain to this day but can pass my PT test and weight requirements. I have chronic shoulder pain, foot pain and knee pain. If these conditions were caused by military service, then why is it considered a scam if I rate a certain level of disability. There are blind people, people in wheelchairs and people without limbs working and smiling each day.

Don't assume seeking a rating is scamming the system. Yes, many are disable but they sure could find that energy to get their groove on. Disable does not mean dead or unable to work.

BRUWIN
02-13-2014, 03:19 AM
Bravo!! +100

I am still employable but had surgery on my leg due to a combat related injury in Iraq.

And you are not the type of case I'm referring too. Combat injuries are one thing, 100% disability for 1 deployment to the Died in 24 years is another. Think I'm exagerrating? It's happening...and you will get screwed in end. Just watch. Undeserving people are talking advantage of America's concern for vets right now and nobody is questioning it. But they will...eventually. Just like they have the 9/11 first responders after 10 years. Only now are they realizing the extent of the fraud...10 years after the fact. Lets face it...who was going to question a first responder after 9/11...but they are now. Maybe the vacations to Costa Rica and new boats and houses finally soured the public. And these guys weren't even working...I wonder just how many American's realize how many disabled vets are earning a solid living and getting 80-100% on top of it? I bet it isn't many.

MisterBen
02-13-2014, 03:29 AM
You make a valid point and whenever there are entitlements, there will be people always trying to scam the system and I place on the lack of adequate controls. Not every 9/11 responder is a scam artist and those who have abused the system will make it harder for the next individuals.

I am very well aware of this scam. http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justice/new-york-ptsd-9-11-scam/

But sadly, I have seen abuses of unemployment, workman's comp and welfare since I started working over 30 years ago. And sadly, the little improvements to try to control the system has not improved abuse whatsoever.

BRUWIN
02-13-2014, 03:38 AM
You make a valid point and whenever there are entitlements, there will be people always trying to scam the system and I place on the lack of adequate controls. Not every 9/11 responder is a scam artist and those who have abused the system will make it harder for the next individuals.

I am very well aware of this scam. http://www.cnn.com/2014/01/07/justice/new-york-ptsd-9-11-scam/

But sadly, I have seen abuses of unemployment, workman's comp and welfare since I started working over 30 years ago. And sadly, the little improvements to try to control the system has not improved abuse whatsoever.

Right...all it's done is screw the people who truly deserve it by limiting their compensation.

BOSS302
02-13-2014, 06:48 AM
And you are not the type of case I'm referring too. Combat injuries are one thing, 100% disability for 1 deployment to the Died in 24 years is another. Think I'm exagerrating? It's happening...and you will get screwed in end. Just watch. Undeserving people are talking advantage of America's concern for vets right now and nobody is questioning it. But they will...eventually. Just like they have the 9/11 first responders after 10 years. Only now are they realizing the extent of the fraud...10 years after the fact. Lets face it...who was going to question a first responder after 9/11...but they are now. Maybe the vacations to Costa Rica and new boats and houses finally soured the public. And these guys weren't even working...I wonder just how many American's realize how many disabled vets are earning a solid living and getting 80-100% on top of it? I bet it isn't many.


http://bodykore.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/jung-500x333.jpg

socal1200r
02-13-2014, 11:09 AM
Well if the AF is screwing up your life than why stay in? And to be honest...I doubt the AF is to blame for depression unless you were ducking bullets somewhere...which maybe you had been. But if you hadn't...I can't see where the AF itself is to blame for depression, and if it was...well you should have gotten out. And to this day I fail to see how sleep apnea is in any way service related...unless your first sergeant tries to suffocate you with a pillow each night.

Here's the Readers Digest version. I was a Reservist on active duty orders, going on five years, when AFRC involuntarily removed me from these orders while I had a case going thru the Disability Processing System, key word being "involuntary". I had to go thru the whole MEB / IPEB / FPEB / AFBCMR appeals process, which was ultimately decided in my favor after 18 months and with the assistance of a civilian attorney. Then it took DFAS almost 2 years to process my LES-related backpay, and they refused to process my travel-related backpay, so I had to start a new case for that. During this time, I lost a house to foreclosure, had to declare personal bankruptcy, had my credit history of 30+ years ruined, etc., which added all kinds of stress to my life which I didn't have before. But because of the Feres Doctrine, I couldn't sue AFRC for gross incompetence, negligence, etc., in the hopes of getting some kind of mitigation for the damage they had done. I've been OCONUS to several locations, been there, done that, got the t-shirt and coin. But I never thought my biggest enemy would be wearing the same uniform that I was...

And believe me, if I could find comparable medical/dental insurance on the "outside", I'd get out in a New York minute, I'm so sick and tired of all this AFRC BS. But having to pay $800 - $1000 a month for medical/dental insurance, where I'm paying $200/month now thru TriCare Reserve Select, is what's keeping me in. I have no desire to do my O6-level PME (war college), take no pride in wearing the uniform anymore, and SECAF / CSAF / and the rest of the puzzle palace lunatics can go pound sand for all I care...

WeaponsTSGT
02-13-2014, 06:25 PM
So 100% disability means you can make $80,000-$100,000 with a contractor, add in your retirement benefit, and full up VA disability? If anything...the military hooked you up with the skills to take a pretty handsomely paying job doing almost exactly what you did before you got out so I don't think they owe you jack squat for disabilty because you AREN"T DISABLED. I don't think they owe you any disability because you can work! Mind telling me WTF 100% disability does mean? To the some of the folks I see getting it it means a sweet 9:00am-5:00pm contractor gig while getting E-7 retirement pay with another tax free $3,000 a month thrown onto that. It's no wonder one of them was frolickling in the waves in Mississippi this last weekend and gambling at night after a nice dinner. Damn, wish I could afford to do that. But mark my words, the issue will come to the forefront after this war is over and we are all home. There is a lot of reservation about screwing with VA disabilty because alot of it is truly deserved for those that were shotup or otherwise scarred by war and politicians don't want to touch it. It is to politically sensitive to even talk about so close to the end of the war. It's even a very sensitive subject amoung veterens as I am finding out. Some feel the way I do...and some feel like we are owed the world. But the day is coming and people faking it will lose their cash cow. If they can put NYC cops/firemen in jail on fraud charges for doing the exact same thing after 9/11...I see no difference...it's gonna end. I just hope the people that truly deserve it aren't screwed in the process.

Oh..and if you go back to my posts when I was in uniform I think you'll find I never intimidated folks back then either. That was never my mission for coming here. If I wanted to intimidate someone as a Chief this is probably the last place I would have come. I seem to remember quit a few F-Off's directed my way in this forum back then and it definately helped keep me grounded. So STFU.

You insist on calling it fraud when it's not, the VA has set up schedule of ratings to compensate veterans on injuries received while on AD, you file the claim along the guidelines that the VA set up, if it's unfair then the VA needs to change their system, the majority of the claims are on the line, they are backed up by medical professionals. Let me paint a picture for you to see if it helps. The VA says if while on active duty you cut off your pinky finger, they don't care if it's with a table saw or if it happened with an IED, it's compensated the same, except for the fact that their are different benefits for combat related claims, and again they have to be backed up by documentation. If you are rated under 100% and can not work you can then apply for unplayability and have your percentage raised to 100%, however you have to be screened along the same lines that the SS administration screens, and not be able to hold any job. 100% disability rating means that either one or more disabilities that exist in the schedule of ratings that the VA prints equates to 100%, it does not mean that you can no longer work or are unemployable. You would think that an educated man that spend decades reading regulations and AFI's, just might do a bit of reading before spouting off what he "thinks" the regulations should mean or say. Hell you can draw concurrent receipt, be rated at 100% and hold down a job making $100k+ a year. This is compensation of your disability while serving not payment so you don't have to work. If you lose a leg, you lose a leg, you're going to get paid for the loss of that leg, but it does not mean you can't go back to work, you're being paid for the disability.

I don't know how much clearer I can make this, you just don't understand, I'm assuming it's because you don't agree, but just because Bruwin doesn't agree with something doesn't make it so. The first responders in NYC weren't being processed through the VA and the program was much different.

USMC0341
02-13-2014, 06:35 PM
I think perhaps Bruwin is speaking about the turds that claim PTSD (without experiencing traumatizing events) because most of the time they will get it even if they don't have it. Same goes for "sleep apnea" and other potentially genetic issues that would have surfaced regardless of someone's occupation in the military. And to that extent I agree, why should someone be awarded compensation for something merely because they developed it during a time of service, not as a result of service?

That being said, my claims rep also tried to list every damn thing that was wrong with me at the time, and said "it is up to the VA to prove it is not service related."

sandsjames
02-13-2014, 06:38 PM
I think perhaps Bruwin is speaking about the turds that claim PTSD (without experiencing traumatizing events) because most of the time they will get it even if they don't have it. Same goes for "sleep apnea" and other potentially genetic issues that would have surfaced regardless of someone's occupation in the military. And to that extent I agree, why should someone be awarded compensation for something merely because they developed it during a time of service, not as a result of service?

That being said, my claims rep also tried to list every damn thing that was wrong with me at the time, and said "it is up to the VA to prove it is not service related."

The thing is that it's stated very clearly that it doesn't have to be service related. It could even actually be something you had prior to joined that got worse while you were in.

As far as sleep apnea and PTSD it's pretty hard to fake those. The tests done are pretty much air tight.

Chief_KO
02-13-2014, 06:49 PM
The only VA-rated disability that I know of that cannot be confirmed by testing is tinnitus. I believe the prudent VA C&P examiner and ratings board would only concur with the claim if the member had proof of sufficient exposure to loud noises related to their military duties.

Are there abuses? Yes...but I think they are in the minority.

BRUWIN
02-13-2014, 08:43 PM
You insist on calling it fraud when it's not, the VA has set up schedule of ratings to compensate veterans on injuries received while on AD, you file the claim along the guidelines that the VA set up, if it's unfair then the VA needs to change their system, the majority of the claims are on the line, they are backed up by medical professionals. Let me paint a picture for you to see if it helps. The VA says if while on active duty you cut off your pinky finger, they don't care if it's with a table saw or if it happened with an IED, it's compensated the same, except for the fact that their are different benefits for combat related claims, and again they have to be backed up by documentation. If you are rated under 100% and can not work you can then apply for unplayability and have your percentage raised to 100%, however you have to be screened along the same lines that the SS administration screens, and not be able to hold any job. 100% disability rating means that either one or more disabilities that exist in the schedule of ratings that the VA prints equates to 100%, it does not mean that you can no longer work or are unemployable. You would think that an educated man that spend decades reading regulations and AFI's, just might do a bit of reading before spouting off what he "thinks" the regulations should mean or say. Hell you can draw concurrent receipt, be rated at 100% and hold down a job making $100k+ a year. This is compensation of your disability while serving not payment so you don't have to work. If you lose a leg, you lose a leg, you're going to get paid for the loss of that leg, but it does not mean you can't go back to work, you're being paid for the disability.

I don't know how much clearer I can make this, you just don't understand, I'm assuming it's because you don't agree, but just because Bruwin doesn't agree with something doesn't make it so. The first responders in NYC weren't being processed through the VA and the program was much different.

Not even one STFU???

What is up with the mods these days??? I thought I would have been banned for those by now. This issue does get me spun up though.

fufu
02-13-2014, 09:33 PM
Bru - I know a guy that is 90% disabled and runs 50-mile races. o_O

waveshaper2
02-22-2014, 09:47 PM
I never paid much attention to this VA "claims" stuff but I have a retired O-5 friend who is pulling out all the stops to get his sleep apnea claim accepted by the VA. Anyway I told him that I think what he is doing is on the verge of fraud and total BS.
Latest article on surge in sleep apnea claims.
http://www.hanfordsentinel.com/news/opinion/columnists/military-update-va-congress-shrug-as-sleep-apnea-claims-surge/article_9ca944d8-9a81-11e3-bb48-001a4bcf887a.html

sandsjames
02-22-2014, 10:15 PM
I never paid much attention to this VA "claims" stuff but I have a retired O-5 friend who is pulling out all the stops to get his sleep apnea claim accepted by the VA. Anyway I told him that I think what he is doing is on the verge of fraud and total BS.
Latest article on surge in sleep apnea claims.
http://www.hanfordsentinel.com/news/opinion/columnists/military-update-va-congress-shrug-as-sleep-apnea-claims-surge/article_9ca944d8-9a81-11e3-bb48-001a4bcf887a.html

Sleep apnea cannot be faked. I don't have it, but know a couple guys who do. If diagnosed (and receiving disability) one must sleep full time with the mask (not sure what it's called) which has a memory chip in it. That memory chip has to be sent in on a regular basis. It monitors oxygen intake, all the other breathing related stuff, etc.

As far as there being a surge, that just makes sense. It is a relatively new diagnosis, which more people are hearing about. If more people are hearing about it, more people are going to get checked out.

In short, fooling this system is about as easy as fooling a lie detector test. It's gonna take a pro.

Now, whether I feel that sleep apnea is something that should be covered by the VA is a different story, but as long as they are and people are willing to go through the inconvenience of the system then they are going to get paid.

There is no fraud (relatively) related to the diagnosis, unless the doctor is in on it.

waveshaper2
02-23-2014, 12:00 AM
The potential fraud part is he has been doctor shopping.

I am kind of old school on some of this disability stuff and I got this way mostly thru being influenced by my neighbor, MR. Bill. My neighbor (MR. Bill) is what I consider old school and I have learned alot from him; He is 94, joined the Army Air Corp in 1939 and retired from the USAF in 1961. He was a crewmember on the B-17 during WW2 (even flew over the beaches of Normandy on D-Day), FE on the B-29 during the Korean War (crash landed at Pusan after being shot up while flying near/crossing the Yalu river on a bomb run), and he was an FE on the B-36 until retirement. My neighbor MR. Bill has never been to the VA, not even once in his life and he says it never even crossed his mind. He says the VA is reserved for those who really need it, to him and most of his generation it is/was as simple as that.

This sleep apnea sounds like something you may get as you age and/or get fat and in most cases probably shouldn't be classified as a VA disability. Also, this individual is retired and has Tricare Prime. I think that in most cases minor disabilities/non combat disabilities should be taken care of/treated/covered by the retired persons Tricare medical insurance. It seems like the amount of folks receiving VA disabilities is at an all time high since the end of WW2 yet the total number of veterans is at its lowest level since the end of WW2. I would expect to see a shrinking VA budgets in the next 10 years, so something got to give. Hopefully, in the future, leadership will make the right choices that insure the most in need are given priority and receive the care/assistance they truly deserve. This is all just my humble opinion.

BRUWIN
02-23-2014, 12:42 AM
The potential fraud part is he has been doctor shopping.

I am kind of old school on some of this disability stuff and I got this way mostly thru being influenced by my neighbor, MR. Bill. My neighbor (MR. Bill) is what I consider old school and I have learned alot from him; He is 94, joined the Army Air Corp in 1939 and retired from the USAF in 1961. He was a crewmember on the B-17 during WW2 (even flew over the beaches of Normandy on D-Day), FE on the B-29 during the Korean War (crash landed at Pusan after being shot up while flying near/crossing the Yalu river on a bomb run), and he was an FE on the B-36 until retirement. My neighbor MR. Bill has never been to the VA, not even once in his life and he says it never even crossed his mind. He says the VA is reserved for those who really need it, to him and most of his generation it is/was as simple as that.



Your neighbor is a true hero. Unfortunately...VA is looked at as additional retirement for many. Some consider it an entitlement.

sandsjames
02-23-2014, 12:42 PM
All I can say about it is that I've been to the VA doctors who determine the disability rating. It's no easy task to get that disability rating without pretty concrete evidence.

Again, I agree with you that some things should be considered for a disability rating, but they are, so if one qualifies, then it doesn't equal fraud. Even if one "doctor shops", they still have to meet with the VA for each item to be reviewed.

I have a zero rating, which is fine because I'm still relatively healthy. There are some issues (herniated disc, rotator cuff) but they don't affect my everyday life. Since they weren't hurting when I met with the VA there wasn't a rating (higher than zero) associated with them. But the day could have been different and I could have been in pain, with less range of motion, and received a higher rating. I wouldn't have said "No, that's alright, I'm usually fine". That's not fraud, nor anything close to fraud.

DocBones
02-23-2014, 02:27 PM
Actually, there are 2 different types of sleep apnea.

The most common type is obstructive sleep apnea. It may be caused by a patient having gained weight. Not in all cases, though.

The other type is called central sleep apnea, and it is caused by the brain shutting down 'the need to breathe', while sleeping.

I myself had a UPPP (uvulopalatopharyngoplasty) surgery to widen the oropharyngeal area, where the uvula is removed, and the oropharyngeal area is widened by removing the tonsilar pillars. That surgery was not needed as was discovered, because I have central sleep apnea.

I went to a local neurologist and I was tested more completely, and I was given a CPAP machine, which was and is definitely needed.

Central sleep apnea can happen to anybody, just as obstructive apnea does.

So, I had my throat cut by an Army surgeon, then I went on to a civilian doctor, and received the correct diagnosis. I am currently taking nuvigil, which is a relatively new drug, like amphetamines, in that it keeps me awake.

It is unlike amphetamines in that it does not affect the same part of the brain that amphetamines do. Also, it does NOT cause tweaking.

I hope that this clears up the bit of confusion caused by y'all not quite understanding the different causes of sleep apnea.

cloudFFVII
03-05-2014, 11:08 PM
Sleep Apnea is DEFINITELY real in the majority of cases. I stopped breathing over 100 times an hour (and imagine, this probably went on for YEARS before it was diagnosed).

Millions of people in our country have it, but few are treated. It is VERY hard to tell unless:
a) Someone realizes your snoring is more series then just being an annoying sound
b) The individual actually swallows his or her pride to get it tested and treat it properly (Especially females).

I was incredibly blessed that my condition was caught and has now been treated for over 3+ years. It very well could have saved my life.

Absinthe Anecdote
03-06-2014, 04:57 AM
I've got some kind of weird sleep disorder that I'm reluctant to talk to the doctors about. I experience sleep paralysis about 1 to 3 times per month. From what I've read about it, most people experience it at least once in their life, but chronic sufferers are very rare.

If you've ever had dream where you are terrified, but can't move, that's what I'm talking about. It is often accompanied by a lucid dream and your eyes are actually open and you are seeing your own bedroom, plus a hallucination of an intruder in the room.

This is sometimes called the old hag syndrome, as people commonly report seeing an old woman standing beside their bed staring at them. I've had that one too, but mostly it is just a feeling that something is in the room with me and I'm scared and can't move. Eventually, I'll come full awake and I'll have a rapid heard rate and I'm all charged up from an adrenaline rush, there is no going back to sleep for several hours after that happens.

I also suffer from insomnia, and I have talked to the doctors about that, but not the sleep paralysis. I don't think they would take me serious and, even if they did, I don't think they could do anything except give me a sleeping pill, and I don't like taking those anyway.

I'm not really sure if there are any detrimental effects from this, other than the insomnia. I've learned to cope with it and I can handle it, but I do wonder what causes it.

The listed suspected causes for chronic sleep paralysis includes heavy drug use and alcoholism. That does not match my personal profile, and I sure as hell don't want any doctor thinking I'm a druggie or a drunk. That's less of a concern, now that I'm retired and not using my security clearance anymore, but it was what kept me from talking about it while I was active duty.

I hear all this stuff about sleep apnea, and I wonder what these dreams are doing to my heart. Maybe I should talk to the doctors about it?

coloringoutsidethelines
03-06-2014, 11:46 AM
I've got some kind of weird sleep disorder that I'm reluctant to talk to the doctors about. I experience sleep paralysis about 1 to 3 times per month. From what I've read about it, most people experience it at least once in their life, but chronic sufferers are very rare.

If you've ever had dream where you are terrified, but can't move, that's what I'm talking about. It is often accompanied by a lucid dream and your eyes are actually open and you are seeing your own bedroom, plus a hallucination of an intruder in the room.

This is sometimes called the old hag syndrome, as people commonly report seeing an old woman standing beside their bed staring at them. I've had that one too, but mostly it is just a feeling that something is in the room with me and I'm scared and can't move. Eventually, I'll come full awake and I'll have a rapid heard rate and I'm all charged up from an adrenaline rush, there is no going back to sleep for several hours after that happens.

I also suffer from insomnia, and I have talked to the doctors about that, but not the sleep paralysis. I don't think they would take me serious and, even if they did, I don't think they could do anything except give me a sleeping pill, and I don't like taking those anyway.

I'm not really sure if there are any detrimental effects from this, other than the insomnia. I've learned to cope with it and I can handle it, but I do wonder what causes it.

The listed suspected causes for chronic sleep paralysis includes heavy drug use and alcoholism. That does not match my personal profile, and I sure as hell don't want any doctor thinking I'm a druggie or a drunk. That's less of a concern, now that I'm retired and not using my security clearance anymore, but it was what kept me from talking about it while I was active duty.

I hear all this stuff about sleep apnea, and I wonder what these dreams are doing to my heart. Maybe I should talk to the doctors about it?

I get this crap too especially when my sleep patterns get messed with due to a pcs or deployment. Luckily it usually only hits if I fall asleep on my back. As long as I don't do that I'm usually good. That tight feeling on your chest is the worst though.

Absinthe Anecdote
03-06-2014, 12:04 PM
I get this crap too especially when my sleep patterns get messed with due to a pcs or deployment. Luckily it usually only hits if I fall asleep on my back. As long as I don't do that I'm usually good. That tight feeling on your chest is the worst though.

I worked rotating shifts for most of my adult life and I've suspected that it is related to my insomnia and the sleep paralysis.

I am sometimes able to realize that it is a dream before coming fully awake, sometimes that helps, and I am able to calm myself and go back to sleep; however, a couple of times it spurred even scarier dreams hallucinations.

From what I understand you are in a half conscious, half dream state. My mind is capable of conjuring up some terrifying shit.

Have you ever dreamed of the old hag or the dude in the black suit?

Chief_KO
03-06-2014, 12:05 PM
AA & Coloring,

I strongly recommend seeing your PCM and get referred to a sleep doctor. While it doesn't sound like apnea, it does sound serious to this layman. I've heard some sleep issues can be resolved easily by taking certain vitamins...I forget which ones. A few of my friends had serious issues that were taken care of that way.

Absinthe Anecdote
03-06-2014, 12:21 PM
AA & Coloring,

I strongly recommend seeing your PCM and get referred to a sleep doctor. While it doesn't sound like apnea, it does sound serious to this layman. I've heard some sleep issues can be resolved easily by taking certain vitamins...I forget which ones. A few of my friends had serious issues that were taken care of that way.

I've been very close to talking about it with a doctor a couple of times, but find it hard to do. I think if you didn't explain it the right way, they could very easily get the wrong impression.

It does sound a little crazy.

coloringoutsidethelines
03-06-2014, 12:31 PM
I worked rotating shifts for most of my adult life and I've suspected that it is related to my insomnia and the sleep paralysis.

I am sometimes able to realize that it is a dream before coming fully awake, sometimes that helps, and I am able to calm myself and go back to sleep; however, a couple of times it spurred even scarier dreams hallucinations.

From what I understand you are in a half conscious, half dream state. My mind is capable of conjuring up some terrifying shit.

Have you ever dreamed of the old hag or the dude in the black suit?

Luckily mine were not that specific, I would just sense a dark shadowy figure in the room with me. It only happens once every three months or so now that I don't sleep on my back. The worst from me was the actual paralysis. waking up and not being able to move and having to concentrate to get my body moving sucked. If you google sleep paralysis there is a lot about it online. I'm definetly not talking about it to a PCM until I retire, especially with how things are going lately. It happens so infrequently now that I think I'm fine. When I did my short tour in Korea it sucked it happened probably 4 times a week.

waveshaper2
03-06-2014, 12:33 PM
old hag syndrome

I suffer from some of the same symptoms, except in my case its much worse because one of my symptoms is midnight wood. How old is your hag?

Absinthe Anecdote
03-06-2014, 12:41 PM
I suffer from some of the same symptoms, except in my case its much worse because one of my symptoms is midnight wood. How old is your hag?

Very old, there isn't a sexual component to these dreams at all. It is usually a very terrifying and ominous dream. I never experience an erection during one of these dreams.

When I awake from one, I feel like I have been fighting.

retiredAFcivvy
03-06-2014, 04:34 PM
I hope that folks that have these symptoms listen to posts like yours and Doc Bones. My wife was diagnosed with sleep apnia and before that it was scary just going to bed not knowing what would happpen when she had one of the attacks in the middle of the night.
QUOTE=cloudFFVII;670105]Sleep Apnea is DEFINITELY real in the majority of cases. I stopped breathing over 100 times an hour (and imagine, this probably went on for YEARS before it was diagnosed).

Millions of people in our country have it, but few are treated. It is VERY hard to tell unless:
a) Someone realizes your snoring is more series then just being an annoying sound
b) The individual actually swallows his or her pride to get it tested and treat it properly (Especially females).

I was incredibly blessed that my condition was caught and has now been treated for over 3+ years. It very well could have saved my life.[/QUOTE]

Chief_KO
03-06-2014, 07:30 PM
I've been very close to talking about it with a doctor a couple of times, but find it hard to do. I think if you didn't explain it the right way, they could very easily get the wrong impression.

It does sound a little crazy.

I could see that train of thought while on AD, but as a retiree I wouldn't be hesitant. It is YOUR HEALTH (and your family's comfort) at stake. Make the call!

BRUWIN
03-07-2014, 03:03 AM
I've been very close to talking about it with a doctor a couple of times, but find it hard to do. I think if you didn't explain it the right way, they could very easily get the wrong impression.

It does sound a little crazy.

Doctors have heard it all so I don't think he'll think your crazy...I agree with Chief KO, you should go see one. After all...these guys have pulled gerbils out of colon's and hot dogs out of uterus's...you can't freak them out.

DocBones
03-07-2014, 04:56 PM
As to people faking obstructive or central Apnea, it is impossible to fake out a sleep lab, as to being diagnosed as having sleep apnea.

When one goes to a sleep lab, that person is wired up with an EEG and other monitoring equipment, and a sleep lab tech is watching that person constantly while that person sleeps.

At least that is how it was done 10 years ago. I was diagnosed with having obstructive sleep apnea, at first, and it was required that I have another sleep lab with a neurologist reading the EEG, as to narrowing the final diagnosis.

I ended up being diagnosed with central sleep apnea.

I hate having to wear a mask while I sleep. Many people discontinue using the CPAP machine because of discomfort, but I finally got used to that.

Here's something for people that do wear the Cpap mask:

If you are still sleepy during the day, go back to your Dr. and tell her/him. You may very well be placed on Nuvigil, which is way cheaper than Provigil. Both of the medications do a remarkable job of keeping one more awake during that person's work hours.*

*Provigil has a few problems listed in warnings and in side effects that occur much less while using Nuvigil.

They are not amphetamines. They work on a different part of the brain. I don't get all sketchy, using Nuvigil (nor did I, while using Provigil). There is no tweaking associated with either drug.

If you are still sleep during your work hours, ask for a redo on the med. 250mg is the upper limit, I do believe.

Lastly, if one is having obstructive sleep apnea, that person may do themselves a good deal if they are to lose weight, if the person is overweight. Why walk the path of death, if one can do something to help themselves?

Losing weight is a good idea, but some people still do have obstructive sleep apnea, after weight loss. Please see your Dr. regularly, to monitor the apneic episodes.

Chief_KO
03-07-2014, 08:38 PM
If memory serves there are a total of 21 sensors applied to the head, chest, legs, along with an abdominal/chest respiratory belt & an O2 sensor on your finger, as well as a video monitor so the technican can watch as well.

Brain waves & eye movement (to determine if REM sleep is entered), respiratory & cardiac (to determine if breathing stops or is interupted), O2 (to determine if you are getting enough oxygen), leg muscle monitors (to determine if you "kick yourself" to start breathing).

There's a whole lot more to a diagnosis of Sleep Apnea than just snoring.

efmbman
03-07-2014, 11:41 PM
If memory serves there are a total of 21 sensors applied to the head, chest, legs, along with an abdominal/chest respiratory belt & an O2 sensor on your finger, as well as a video monitor so the technican can watch as well.

Brain waves & eye movement (to determine if REM sleep is entered), respiratory & cardiac (to determine if breathing stops or is interupted), O2 (to determine if you are getting enough oxygen), leg muscle monitors (to determine if you "kick yourself" to start breathing).

There's a whole lot more to a diagnosis of Sleep Apnea than just snoring.

Yeah - that's what I had done. I remember thinking "How could anyone get decent sleep with all this crap attached?" In a way, I thought it was a self-fulfilling prophecy that no one would sleep well with 10 lbs of wires running off your body.

Chief_KO
03-08-2014, 02:33 AM
Yeah - that's what I had done. I remember thinking "How could anyone get decent sleep with all this crap attached?" In a way, I thought it was a self-fulfilling prophecy that no one would sleep well with 10 lbs of wires running off your body.

After a couple hours or so the tech woke me to give me the results...I had every symptom: stopped breathing, kicking legs, no REM activity, O2 less than half what it should be. Put me on the CPAP for the rest of the night. In the morning she showed me the difference of the various readings on the tapes...wow.

I thought I was sleeping good before...in bed 8 hours a night, but I wasn't sleeping. I'd fall asleep at traffic light on the way home from work. Immediately after dinner I'd fall asleep in my chair...Been on the machine for over 2 years now (started while still on AD), it has made a world of difference. My last TDY I didn't take it with me (figured I could go 4 days no problem)...I felt like crap every day!

My own non-scientific research: about 70% of the folks I know that got tested (after the pre-screening exam) were NOT diagnosed with Sleep Apnea, so it is far from an "automatic".