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HeyEng
01-10-2014, 05:02 PM
This is not the original program that was looking for negative quality indicators....this is almost ALL enlisted folks in overage AFSCs for SrA-SMSgt.

The news release on the Portal doesn't even mention this, and when talking to my boss (0-6), he told me that I was going to the board. I was confused and when he showed me the e-mail, it all made sense. Basically, if you are a SrA-SMSgt and aren't in sanctuary (18-20 years TIS) and in an overage AFSC, then you are going to meet the board. Your senior rater will be required to strat you among AFSCs and again among your rank. This IS NOT the enlisted quality force retention board, this is simply the "enlisted retention board" as listed on MyPers. Dates for retirement/separation differ depending on rank and/or TIS.

It is PSDM 13-129 if you'd like to read the details.

sandsjames
01-10-2014, 05:05 PM
This is not the original program that was looking for negative quality indicators....this is almost ALL enlisted folks in overage AFSCs for SrA-SMSgt.

The news release on the Portal doesn't even mention this, and when talking to my boss (0-6), he told me that I was going to the board. I was confused and when he showed me the e-mail, it all made sense. Basically, if you are a SrA-SMSgt and aren't in sanctuary (18-20 years TIS) and in an overage AFSC, then you are going to meet the board. Your senior rater will be required to strat you among AFSCs and again among your rank. This IS NOT the enlisted quality force retention board, this is simply the "enlisted retention board" as listed on MyPers. Dates for retirement/separation differ depending on rank and/or TIS.

It is PSDM 13-129 if you'd like to read the details.

I'm sure most of the rankings by senior rater will be done based solely on PT scores/failures.

DWWSWWD
01-10-2014, 05:11 PM
I'm sure most of the rankings by senior rater will be done based solely on PT scores/failures. What else is there? A couple of Art 15s, a few folks that declined retainability or turned down PME... What are you left with? 100,000 firewall 5s.

SomeRandomGuy
01-10-2014, 05:12 PM
I'm sure most of the rankings by senior rater will be done based solely on PT scores/failures.

Sounds simple enough. Please rate your Airmen on a scale of 1-100.

J.D.C.
01-10-2014, 05:52 PM
This is not the original program that was looking for negative quality indicators....this is almost ALL enlisted folks in overage AFSCs for SrA-SMSgt.

The news release on the Portal doesn't even mention this, and when talking to my boss (0-6), he told me that I was going to the board. I was confused and when he showed me the e-mail, it all made sense. Basically, if you are a SrA-SMSgt and aren't in sanctuary (18-20 years TIS) and in an overage AFSC, then you are going to meet the board. Your senior rater will be required to strat you among AFSCs and again among your rank. This IS NOT the enlisted quality force retention board, this is simply the "enlisted retention board" as listed on MyPers. Dates for retirement/separation differ depending on rank and/or TIS.

It is PSDM 13-129 if you'd like to read the details.

Not quite. If you are a SNCO in a overage careerfield they are only looking at you if you are over 20 TIS as of 30 Nov 14 (read page 1 of the PSDM you referenced).

raustin0017
01-10-2014, 06:19 PM
^^^ True. My advice to Sr Raters: "Sir/Ma'am, I have taken the opportunity to highlight all SNCOs on the base who do not have a CCAF or their PME finished. This should make your job quick and easy."

BISSBOSS
01-10-2014, 06:27 PM
The AF is out of control..!

-BB-

HeyEng
01-10-2014, 07:20 PM
Not quite. If you are a SNCO in a overage careerfield they are only looking at you if you are over 20 TIS as of 30 Nov 14 (read page 1 of the PSDM you referenced).

That is true, but it still lumps in A LOT of people...many more than the original plan called for. What burns my ass about it was that the only way I heard about the changes was from my boss...the story on the portal isn't even updated correctly. Big blue is AN ASS. That's all there is to it.

HeyEng
01-10-2014, 07:21 PM
"And sir, I have also identified all the SSgts that haven't completed Course 14 and all the TSgts that aren't the regional director of Habitat for Humanity..."

RetC141BFCC
01-10-2014, 07:22 PM
Chief
I have to agree. If you are a MSgt and do not have it done your CCAF and PME in times of cut backs it is a perfect place for cuts. Better to cut someone who did not due there PME then Keep someone just because they worked the holiday xmass party

J.D.C.
01-10-2014, 09:14 PM
HeyEng, if you are only hearing about it from your boss, you have no one to blame but yourself. the PSDMs have been out and updated a few times since 15 Dec. All you had to do was go to MyPers just like the first www.af.mil article told you.

Capt Alfredo
01-10-2014, 09:27 PM
HeyEng, if you are only hearing about it from your boss, you have no one to blame but yourself. the PSDMs have been out and updated a few times since 15 Dec. All you had to do was go to MyPers just like the first www.af.mil article told you.

Man, that's weak. AFPC has been HORRIFIC about getting accurate information disseminated on the plethora of force-shaping initiatives being implemented in 2014. Have you actually READ any of the PSDMs? Most are lacking clear, concise information and many raise more questions than they answer. The E-SERB PSDM, to pick one that affects me, is ridiculously lacking in imagination. I feel for the poor people at the AFPC service center who are stuck fielding questions. I called them the other day and had to get put on hold while they struggled to come up with answer for a simple question that apparently the designers of the program had never considered. "We'll have to get back to you" and meanwhile AF/A1 is putting out propaganda news releases urging members to "Know Your Options" - MFer, YOU don't know my options! The timing and mis-management of the force-shaping measures is yet another large blow to corporate AF's credibility. The silence coming out of the CSAF and CMSAF offices is disappointing, to say the least.

J.D.C.
01-11-2014, 12:58 AM
I have read all the enlisted ones, the big "missing" info is how many they are looking to cut from which AFSCs. I will give you their are a lot of unique situations that are not addressed and questions like "Is that referral EPR from 5 years ago going to cause me to get booted?" Yet that doesn't change the fact that the OP stated the only way he is hearing about the "Air Force Hunger Games" as they are known here, is from his boss. You prove my point..while they may not be good, but you went out and read the msgs and called AFPC...you are being proactive, using the resources available too you.

Capt Alfredo
01-11-2014, 01:07 AM
I have read all the enlisted ones, the big "missing" info is how many they are looking to cut from which AFSCs. I will give you their are a lot of unique situations that are not addressed and questions like "Is that referral EPR from 5 years ago going to cause me to get booted?" Yet that doesn't change the fact that the OP stated the only way he is hearing about the "Air Force Hunger Games" as they are known here, is from his boss. You prove my point..while they may not be good, but you went out and read the msgs and called AFPC...you are being proactive, using the resources available too you.

But why release all of the half-baked information before all the ducks were in a row (to mix metaphors)? Why not take the time to get everything right the first time, then release clear, concise guidance that everyone can understand? Why release this stuff on literally Christmas Eve? Why not wait a week or two and let people at least enjoy the holiday season before raining on our parades? Why have they had to revise a handful of the PSDMs already? Why not get the specific details in order first? I understand we need to shed manpower, but this could have been done a lot more professionally and cleanly.

J.D.C.
01-11-2014, 01:14 AM
I completely agree! I don't by the "wanting to get out to the field as soon as possible" so people can plan line at all.

mikezulu1
01-11-2014, 01:18 AM
But why release all of the half-baked information before all the ducks were in a row (to mix metaphors)? Why not take the time to get everything right the first time, then release clear, concise guidance that everyone can understand? Why release this stuff on literally Christmas Eve? Why not wait a week or two and let people at least enjoy the holiday season before raining on our parades? Why have they had to revise a handful of the PSDMs already? Why not get the specific details in order first? I understand we need to shed manpower, but this could have been done a lot more professionally and cleanly.

How long have you worked for the Air Force? just kidding.... This is textbook USAF FUBAR..

Capt Alfredo
01-11-2014, 01:19 AM
How long have you worked for the Air Force? just kidding.... This is textbook USAF FUBAR..

After more than two decades in an Air Force uniform, I'd like to believe we're better than this.

mikezulu1
01-11-2014, 01:25 AM
After more than two decades in an Air Force uniform, I'd like to believe we're better than this.


Yeah me too, but I have yet to see anything other than this type of execution so its par for the course for me.

grimreaper
01-11-2014, 03:17 AM
After more than two decades in an Air Force uniform, I'd like to believe we're better than this.

Went to the first town hall on this they had a few weeks back...couple hundred people walked out of the theater saying WTF. Basically,every question that was asked, they same "we have to wait for the PSDM's to come out" response was given. Well now the PSDM's have been released, and as you said, they raise more questions than they answer. Fast forward to today...I'm at MPF submitting paperwork for my upcoming assignment and Amn after Amn come in pretty much asking the same questions like "How do I know where I stand" etc, etc, and the TSgt behind the counter just kept telling each and every one that they haven't received that guidance. SMH. Lunatics running the asylum.

snowman
01-11-2014, 03:38 AM
I can't but wonder, for those in sanctuary status, shouldn't this really improve your odds of getting promoted in a few years once all the MSgts - CMSgts are forced to retire and they need to replace them in a few years. Seems to me if you are in that magic more than 18, less than 20 year mark...you just won the golden ticket

BUDJR8
01-11-2014, 03:44 AM
If you read all 38 pages of the PSDM you should know what to be prepared for. Most folks that are in danger of being cut should know who they are. Like a previous post above mentioned, if you are a SNCO and STILL don't have PME or CCAF done at this point, then you can only blame yourself. If you're still not getting it when it comes to fitness (passing scores) then you can only blame yourself. We've been beating the PME, CCAF, PT drum for years now. Trust me, I know it's hard for some folks, but I'll be damned if I won't find some way, any way to pass my PT test rather than become an automatic cut. I'm not crazy about the strat part, but I'm not surprised this is what it's come down to. We'll see how it all shakes out, but my advice to any that are targeted for the boards is make sure your records are tight, but have an emergency plan just in case you don't get retained. Good luck to you all.

J.D.C.
01-11-2014, 01:12 PM
Asking what your standing is among the notified folks, while it seems like a legit question, isn't. Your standing is going to be determined by the board. This is going to be a lot like SMSgt and CMSgt Promotion Boards.

For the QFIB, we know what they are looking at, but don't know how many they are targeting. If you were a "Shiny Penny" made one "mistake" like a DUI and have begun to bounce back, you *might* have a shot at retention...but I wouldn't count on it.

For the Retention Board, if you are a top notch Amn/NCO/SNCO that has all "firewall" 5 EPRs going back the entire 10 years they are looking, have all your PMEs done including the volunteer ones like the Joint SNCO (which can be done as a TSgt), CCAF, won awards (Sq, Grp, Wing, NAF, MAJCOM, AF) and no failed PT Tests. Then you really have little to worry about. When you start chipping away at that ideal record, you start moving down that big list, then it is just a matter of how far up from the bottom they are going and if you fall in to that. If you have a lot of 4/5 with markdowns, don't have you PME done, with failed PT Tests in the mix your going to rank pretty low in the rack in stack and rightfully should be prepping for possible cut.

If nothing else, this proves the line "Leadership" tries to feed us that a "4" EPR is a "good" EPR. Take on the DSD program, most special duties, etc. it paints a pretty clear picture that a "4" is bad.

sandsjames
01-11-2014, 01:36 PM
A piece of advice for all facing the board. There are many items in your records that cannot be used once a certain timespan has expired. Read the Records Management AFIs and if someone tries to tell you differently, get with legal immediately. This is your career.

BRUWIN
01-11-2014, 11:40 PM
If I was still in I guess I'd be growing my hair already.

AF Comm Guy
01-12-2014, 02:52 AM
I have spent all afternoon reading the PSDMs and think I have a fairly good handle on it now. The QFRB is the first step and is meant to cut away the dead weight. Airmen with quality indicators will get reviewed and hopefully this will take care of several. RI's include 9A100, 9A200, Referral performance reports, 4B, 4E, 4F, 4G, 4H, 4I, 4J, 2E, 2X. Basically this means we're getting rid or our shit birds first and good riddance. One thing that surprises me are people with medical codes aren't being looked at. I have an Assignment Availability Code C2 which means I realistically can't expect to ever deploy. All this will affect the numbers that need to be cut during the ERB so don't even bother asking MPS what your standing is; they don't know. Do keep an eye on your email and vMPF because as numbers get cut, AFSC's will go from red to green on their manning (red=need to cut, green=don't need to cut). It will be a fluid thing so stay alert.

The dates they set down are hard and fast. If you don't like what you're reading, that's too bad but don't try to re-read it to say something better. If you are just a hair outside the retirement sanctuary then you ARE outside the sanctuary. There's no such thing as "a little pregnant" here so plan accordingly. Our unit has two NCO's who are facing cuts right now. One has less than 15 so if he's cut then he'll get separation pay. The only difference will be whether he volunteers to get out and gets the extra 25% or faces the board and gambles on staying in. If he still gets booted then he will receive full sep pay without the volunteer bonus. If you're in this boat, think hard about what you want for the future. Our other NCO has enough long time that he can go TERA. What I'm not clear on is whether he must volunteer for it before the board or if he can take it after non-retention. The PSDM is vague or my eyes are tired (both are very possible at this point).

Finally...any E-7's, E-8's or E-9's who aren't stellar, GTFO! You're clogging up the promotion cycle and making it hard for the rest of us! You've been in long enough to simply retire. Do it and get a nice cushy GS job somewhere.

wxjumper
01-12-2014, 07:01 AM
But why release all of the half-baked information before all the ducks were in a row (to mix metaphors)? Why not take the time to get everything right the first time, then release clear, concise guidance that everyone can understand? Why release this stuff on literally Christmas Eve? Why not wait a week or two and let people at least enjoy the holiday season before raining on our parades? Why have they had to revise a handful of the PSDMs already? Why not get the specific details in order first? I understand we need to shed manpower, but this could have been done a lot more professionally and cleanly.

The only thing I would disagree with is faulting the Air Force on the release date. I for one am glad they released it as early as they did. We all knew they were coming. It was either going through the holidays knowing this stuff was coming, but not sure what. Or having something to start planning for. I had enough detail to know that my career field and year group was targeted, and I knew what programs I was eligible for. I would rather know then wonder during the holidays. With that being said, AFPC and local personnel commanders dropped the ball on a lot of things.

sandsjames
01-12-2014, 10:38 AM
I have spent all afternoon reading the PSDMs and think I have a fairly good handle on it now. The QFRB is the first step and is meant to cut away the dead weight. Airmen with quality indicators will get reviewed and hopefully this will take care of several. RI's include 9A100, 9A200, Referral performance reports, 4B, 4E, 4F, 4G, 4H, 4I, 4J, 2E, 2X. Basically this means we're getting rid or our shit birds first and good riddance. One thing that surprises me are people with medical codes aren't being looked at. I have an Assignment Availability Code C2 which means I realistically can't expect to ever deploy. All this will affect the numbers that need to be cut during the ERB so don't even bother asking MPS what your standing is; they don't know. Do keep an eye on your email and vMPF because as numbers get cut, AFSC's will go from red to green on their manning (red=need to cut, green=don't need to cut). It will be a fluid thing so stay alert.

The dates they set down are hard and fast. If you don't like what you're reading, that's too bad but don't try to re-read it to say something better. If you are just a hair outside the retirement sanctuary then you ARE outside the sanctuary. There's no such thing as "a little pregnant" here so plan accordingly. Our unit has two NCO's who are facing cuts right now. One has less than 15 so if he's cut then he'll get separation pay. The only difference will be whether he volunteers to get out and gets the extra 25% or faces the board and gambles on staying in. If he still gets booted then he will receive full sep pay without the volunteer bonus. If you're in this boat, think hard about what you want for the future. Our other NCO has enough long time that he can go TERA. What I'm not clear on is whether he must volunteer for it before the board or if he can take it after non-retention. The PSDM is vague or my eyes are tired (both are very possible at this point).

Finally...any E-7's, E-8's or E-9's who aren't stellar, GTFO! You're clogging up the promotion cycle and making it hard for the rest of us! You've been in long enough to simply retire. Do it and get a nice cushy GS job somewhere.

Be honest here. Where are the majority of referrals in the Air Force right now? Job performance? DUIs? Nope, PT. The program that we've been told 1000 times is not a force shaping program is going to be the primary reason people get cut.

giggawatt
01-12-2014, 11:35 AM
My question about referrals is are they looking at most recent referrals or are they gonna go back and kick everyone that's ever had a referral?

Man, I feel like I've been playing AF survivor my whole career.

sandsjames
01-12-2014, 12:23 PM
My question about referrals is are they looking at most recent referrals or are they gonna go back and kick everyone that's ever had a referral?

Man, I feel like I've been playing AF survivor my whole career.

Can't say for sure, but I'd bet they'll go back as far as they need to. I'd like to think they'd look at the impact/harshness of the offense that caused the referral. However, I don't think they'll be so distinguishing. I think they'll see referral and the name will go in the pile.

Air Force survival is exactly why a lot of people are retiring as soon as they hit the 20 year mark. Nobody is safe. We were told for years that it wasn't a one mistake Air Force. I guess that's another lie.

wxjumper
01-12-2014, 12:47 PM
In the mostly non-informative briefing I went to before Christmas, they said they thought they would go back 10 years. But don't take that as gospel, they didn't know much of anything.

waveshaper2
01-12-2014, 02:47 PM
Can't say for sure, but I'd bet they'll go back as far as they need to. I'd like to think they'd look at the impact/harshness of the offense that caused the referral. However, I don't think they'll be so distinguishing. I think they'll see referral and the name will go in the pile.

Air Force survival is exactly why a lot of people are retiring as soon as they hit the 20 year mark. Nobody is safe. We were told for years that it wasn't a one mistake Air Force. I guess that's another lie.

I hope that secretly we have a few "Schindler's" still amongst us, I guess we will see. Also, anyone who volunteers to sit on one of these "selection boards" should be s#^! canned or maybe turned over to the Taliban/Al Qaeda.

imported_KnuckleDragger
01-12-2014, 02:50 PM
I hope that secretly we have a few "Schindler's" still amongst us, I guess we will see.

huh?

waveshaper2
01-12-2014, 02:56 PM
huh?
As in "Schindler's List".

imported_KnuckleDragger
01-12-2014, 03:08 PM
As in "Schindler's List".

You hope the boards decide who goes, based on ethnicity/religion?

Cookie Monster
01-12-2014, 04:14 PM
It means we should hope somebody subverts the process by protecting their people. So that way the quota is met by axing somebody else's people.

waveshaper2
01-12-2014, 04:35 PM
You hope the boards decide who goes, based on ethnicity/religion?

No, this has zero to do with ethnicity/religion but what is fixing to happen is a subtle form of systematic cleansing intended to create a force that is manned only by the "Most Special" of people. Just because you are special today doesn't mean you will be special enough tomorrow. I hope there are some good leaders, still around, who can find a way to secretly save a few of the good people that are fixing to get thrown under the bus by a board made up of the most special members of the USAF. Taking these type risks/actions (not approved methods) to save a few good people would be a form of protest/disobedience and the Man will exact a price on your ass if you get caught. Anyway, I know my thoughts are WAY out there but this is how I see some off this stupid stuff.

waveshaper2
01-12-2014, 04:59 PM
It means we should hope somebody subverts the process by protecting their people. So that way the quota is met by axing somebody else's people.
I believe that if you were good enough for the USAF yesterday then you are good enough for the USAF tomorrow. There should not be an arbitrary cutoff date that overnight says that you now suck and everyone should share the risk. Example (This would apply to all ranks); We are cutting X number of E-9's. Then all the E-9's names (in the USAF) are placed into a random lottery type system and names are randomly selected until the X number is met. There would be no Exemptions from the lottery, even all the Command Chiefs and CMSGT of the Air Force would be on the chopping block, because nobody is that special and if they think they are then they should automatically be S*^$ Canned.

Cookie Monster
01-12-2014, 05:21 PM
So you're saying that it's in the best interests of the Air Force to expose its absolute top members to the same risk as its more turdly personnel. In lieu of exercising judgment, we should pull names from a hat.

This ain't Logan's Run.

jerseyfla
01-12-2014, 05:42 PM
Here's the situation I'm dealing with and the mountain of uncertainty with the ERB even though I have people saying I should have nothing to worry about.

My career field is overmanned in TSgt's by 24 people.

I've had 5 EPRs for the last 10 years. Not all firewall 5s but 5s nonetheless. My EPR closed out 3 March. I failed a PT test for the first time in my career two weeks after close out, but passed it with a 92 two months later. I read the PSDM and of the material the board is going to look at, AFFMS is not included and they are only looking at EPRs closing out before 1 Dec 13. My supervision is stratifying us 3 TSgt's in my flight which honestly we are all superstars with beefy EPR material for our career field except for my 1 PT failure which I'm sure puts me at #3 but like I read, AFFMS won't be included. If they are stratifying at the base level then how are they going to really cut us from the force when I'm sure some bases have less than stellar TSgt's than we do at my base. That would suck being the bottom of a great group of TSgt's at one base when another has all dirtbag TSgt's. I'm really hoping that they look at everyone's EPRs closely and not just cut the bottom TSgt in my career field at every base.

RetC141BFCC
01-12-2014, 05:45 PM
All I can say is thank God I am retired and I wish you all the best

waveshaper2
01-12-2014, 06:10 PM
So you're saying that it's in the best interests of the Air Force to expose its absolute top members to the same risk as its more turdly personnel. In lieu of exercising judgment, we should pull names from a hat.

This ain't Logan's Run.

The Turd judgment should have been made "yesterday" and the real turds/criminals/etc should already be on their way out the door. I would "NEVER" call folks who have served this country with honor and have a 4/5 EPR or failed a PT test-Turds. Only the most "special of people" would call these hard working and good airman-TURDs. Thanks for helping make my point about who the real turds really are.

AF Comm Guy
01-12-2014, 06:40 PM
I've been reading more this morning and have found the answers to some of the questions that have come up on the forum here. I apologize for this being so lengthy but I wanted to hit on the important items which seem to be tripping people up.

Per both PSDM 13-125 and 13-129, both QFRB and ERB boards will look at "All EPRs closing out within the last 10 years, but NLT 1 Dec 13." This information is in Attachment 9, Data Verification

On the QFRB (bad boys), only a current referral EPR will make you eligible for consideration. If you had a referral EPR in the past but the subsequent EPR(s) are not referrals then you should not have an Assignment Availability Code 19 (Current referral performance report). So, if you don't currently have a referral EPR/OPR but are still coded AAC 19, GET THAT CORRECTED RIGHT NOW!

The FAQ's in PSDM 13-125 and 13-129 (QFRB & ERB) both say that the board members on each panel will consist of two community functional expert Chief Master Sergeants and a Colonel. It was unclear whether each panel covers only one AFSC or a family of AFSCs (3D0X5 vs the 3D0 group).

Per PSDM 13-125… "Voluntary separation pay will not be offered to those airmen meeting the Quality Force Review Board. however, Airmen with 6 years of Total Active Federal Military Service as of 29 Sep 14 will receive involuntary separation pay if separated by the QFRB. TERA will be offered to those airmen with at least 15 years of service who are not retained by the QFRB. Retirement eligible airmen (20 or more years) will have the opportunity to apply for normal retirement."

- So if you're one of the bad boys being looked at and you get the boot, you will get money.

Per PSDM 13-129… "The enlisted Retention Boards will determine which airmen (SrA through TSgt) in overage AFSCs are selected for retention and which airmen will separate or retire under the Temporary Early Retirement Authority (TERA). These boards will consider Airmen (except those in sanctuary - greater than or equal to 18 years of service and less than 20 years of service as of 31 Jan 15) in an overage AFSC/grade to determine who will be retained. Voluntary separation will be offered to those Airmen meeting a retention board with 6 years or more of service as of 31 Jan 15. Involuntary separation pay will be given to those airmen with 6 or more years of service as of 31 Jan 15 who are separated by the retention board. TERA will be offered before the board to Airmen with at least 15 years of service and to similarly eligible Airmen who are not retained. Retirement eligible SNCOs (20 or more years) jill have the opportunity to apply for normal retirement. This PSDM provides for certain enlisted Airmen to voluntarily request retirement or separation in lieu of meeting the Enlisted Retention Board, and allows for Active Duty Service Commitment (ADSC) waivers for Airman applying for retirement or separation."

- So, if you're being considered for the boot and you only have 6-14 years of service as of 31 Jan 15 then you can apply for voluntary separation and get full separation pay plus 25%. If you gamble to stay in and still get the boot, you will get full separation pay without the extra 25%.

- As for TERA eligibles, you can apply for it before or after the ERB with no apparent penalties. If you're in this window then my advice is to stick it out and make them kick you out. Of course, TERA might not be offered during next year's round of cuts.

AF Comm Guy
01-12-2014, 06:51 PM
Here's the situation I'm dealing with and the mountain of uncertainty with the ERB even though I have people saying I should have nothing to worry about.

My career field is overmanned in TSgt's by 24 people.

I've had 5 EPRs for the last 10 years. Not all firewall 5s but 5s nonetheless. My EPR closed out 3 March. I failed a PT test for the first time in my career two weeks after close out, but passed it with a 92 two months later. I read the PSDM and of the material the board is going to look at, AFFMS is not included and they are only looking at EPRs closing out before 1 Dec 13. My supervision is stratifying us 3 TSgt's in my flight which honestly we are all superstars with beefy EPR material for our career field except for my 1 PT failure which I'm sure puts me at #3 but like I read, AFFMS won't be included. If they are stratifying at the base level then how are they going to really cut us from the force when I'm sure some bases have less than stellar TSgt's than we do at my base. That would suck being the bottom of a great group of TSgt's at one base when another has all dirtbag TSgt's. I'm really hoping that they look at everyone's EPRs closely and not just cut the bottom TSgt in my career field at every base.

The ERB is not looking at fitness scores so if you are currently passing then it is not a consideration. The QFRB will net people who have a Reenlistment Eligibility Code 4J-Entered in Phase I AF Weight Prog; or airman ineligible for period of Phase II. You should have been or will be soon notified whether you are on the ERB or QFRB list but it doesn't look like anyone can end up on both.

The specific items being looked at are 10 years of EPRs (doesn't necessarily have to be 10 EPRs), Citations for all decorations approved NLT 1 Dec 13, Article 15s, Records of Court-Martial, AF Form 77 Letter of Evaluation, AF Form 475 Training Records. Additionally, your commander/superintendent can write a 3 bullet recommendation to attach to your package indicating why you should be retained. If they are under the impression that they have to stratify the people in your unit then they need to get their heads out of their asses and do it right. If the three NCOs in your job are all excellent then the CC should write excellent retention packages and let the chips fall where they may.

On the other hand, if he doesn't like you and wants you out then you're screwed.

AFFMS is NOT on the list of items considered.

VCO
01-12-2014, 09:20 PM
The Turd judgment should have been made "yesterday" and the real turds/criminals/etc should already be on their way out the door. I would "NEVER" call folks who have served this country with honor and have a 4/5 EPR or failed a PT test-Turds. Only the most "special of people" would call these hard working and good airman-TURDs. Thanks for helping make my point about who the real turds really are.

Do you need a hug?

BRUWIN
01-12-2014, 09:32 PM
I believe that if you were good enough for the USAF yesterday then you are good enough for the USAF tomorrow. There should not be an arbitrary cutoff date that overnight says that you now suck and everyone should share the risk. Example (This would apply to all ranks); We are cutting X number of E-9's. Then all the E-9's names (in the USAF) are placed into a random lottery type system and names are randomly selected until the X number is met. There would be no Exemptions from the lottery, even all the Command Chiefs and CMSGT of the Air Force would be on the chopping block, because nobody is that special and if they think they are then they should automatically be S*^$ Canned.

This is the dumbest idea ever. You should be #1 on the list. By the sounds of it maybe you already are.

HMT
01-12-2014, 09:35 PM
No need to worry if you do the things expected of good Amn, NCOs and SNCOs. We are a large force with great opportunities so just because you are affected by the cuts, doesn't mean you are the one to go. On the other hand, if I'm that guy, time to get my affairs in order... Best of luck to all you who chose not to do the things expected of good Amn, NCOs and SNCOs.

Chief_KO
01-12-2014, 09:38 PM
Enlisted members re-enlist and sign a contract agreeing to serve for the next "X' number of years. How about instead of TERA and VSP why not allow them to serve out their present enlistment (that's what they've committed to) under honorable conditions and not allow them to reenlist.
We won't have the sudden loss of members, the AF meets their side of the contract and the member is afforded ample to time to prepare for the next step. That way, in case the world situation changes quickly we are not short bodies.

J.D.C.
01-12-2014, 09:41 PM
Common sense is crazy talk Chief.

waveshaper2
01-12-2014, 09:57 PM
This is the dumbest idea ever. You should be #1 on the list. By the sounds of it maybe you already are.
Thank you, I really had to dig deep to come up with this idea and I think it's one of my best. I also believe that if you have completed your CCAF degree you should be permanently exempted from being Force Managed .

DWWSWWD
01-12-2014, 10:31 PM
If they are stratifying at the base level then how are they going to really cut us from the force when I'm sure some bases have less than stellar TSgt's than we do at my base. That would suck being the bottom of a great group of TSgt's at one base when another has all dirtbag TSgt's. I'm really hoping that they look at everyone's EPRs closely and not just cut the bottom TSgt in my career field at every base. We had this discussion many, many times when the task was to trim tons of comm LTs and Captains. My gut tells me that we're not cutting that deep and that you will be just fine. As far as I know, there is no stratifying of enlisted happening right now.

mikezulu1
01-13-2014, 01:09 AM
As far as I know, there is no stratifying of enlisted happening right now.

They are doing it my shop. Every eligible SSgt has to submit a folder w/last 5 eprs and dec citations.Sq/CC is strating 1-55. SQ/sup said BS it will be three categories keep/consider/separate. We will see whose idea goes through.

wxjumper
01-13-2014, 02:58 AM
The FAQ's in PSDM 13-125 and 13-129 (QFRB & ERB) both say that the board members on each panel will consist of two community functional expert Chief Master Sergeants and a Colonel. It was unclear whether each panel covers only one AFSC or a family of AFSCs (3D0X5 vs the 3D0 group).



In other words, you better hope that you never pissed off the functional Chief that sits on the board or that he has heard bad things about you in the past. My experience working with functional Chiefs is that they seem to have a good handle who the bad apples in their career field are.

wxjumper
01-13-2014, 03:05 AM
Keep in mind that no matter how much you career year group is over manned, they cannot cut more then 30%. So all you need to be is in the top 70% in your category and you are good to go. But I feel for you, back in 2010 I went through a RIF where they cut 30% out of my career year group. It was a shitty year.

HeyEng
01-14-2014, 01:45 AM
Keep in mind that no matter how much you career year group is over manned, they cannot cut more then 30%. So all you need to be is in the top 70% in your category and you are good to go. But I feel for you, back in 2010 I went through a RIF where they cut 30% out of my career year group. It was a shitty year.

Where did you get "no more than 30%"? I haven't read that anywhere. The links I used to be able to go to (THRMIS) isn't updating for the next couple of FYs, so I am unable to see what they are looking for in respect to AFSCs/grades.

Also, for the ERB (or whatever the acronym is), the senior raters are REQUIRED to strat the members...first within the AFSC and secondly within rank. This is not something the raters can blow off...it's on the form w/ the 3 or 4 bullets.

As far as being "blindsided" about the ERB, I don't think that's the case. My boss was as confused as I was on the ERB vs. the quality force board...and he's an O-6. I don't blame anyone except those at the VERY TOP of the personnel rung. I'm not a junior guy and I was around for the RIF in '93-'94...it severely affected the entire force. Personally, I don't care if I am asked to leave early or if I get to hang around a little longer...at this point I do everything for ME. I have given big blue ENOUGH and I have had ENOUGH, so if I go...it will probably be best for me and big blue. However, my unit will suffer significantly at least for a while because of the manning shortfall. I could rant on and on, but I will save my breath.

wxjumper
01-14-2014, 02:15 AM
You'll see it when the overage matrix come out. It will have something like Total in career year group: 10; Overage: 5; Number that will be cut: 3

I think it is actually a law, or a very strict regulation, that services can't cut more then 30% in any targeted cuts. And no, I am not going to look it up because I don't really care if you believe me or not. But you'll see it when the Matrixes are released.

Keep in mind this is for the RIF and for targeted year groups. Not sure if the Quality of Force boards will look at career year groups, but if they do, they can't take out more then 30% or more than 30% total combined.

J.D.C.
01-15-2014, 11:21 AM
I seen an email from the CFM saying that the actual numbers of cuts per AFSC should be coming out in the next two weeks.

imported_DannyJ
01-15-2014, 12:55 PM
Where did you get "no more than 30%"? I haven't read that anywhere. The links I used to be able to go to (THRMIS) isn't updating for the next couple of FYs, so I am unable to see what they are looking for in respect to AFSCs/grades.

Also, for the ERB (or whatever the acronym is), the senior raters are REQUIRED to strat the members...first within the AFSC and secondly within rank. This is not something the raters can blow off...it's on the form w/ the 3 or 4 bullets.

As far as being "blindsided" about the ERB, I don't think that's the case. My boss was as confused as I was on the ERB vs. the quality force board...and he's an O-6. I don't blame anyone except those at the VERY TOP of the personnel rung. I'm not a junior guy and I was around for the RIF in '93-'94...it severely affected the entire force. Personally, I don't care if I am asked to leave early or if I get to hang around a little longer...at this point I do everything for ME. I have given big blue ENOUGH and I have had ENOUGH, so if I go...it will probably be best for me and big blue. However, my unit will suffer significantly at least for a while because of the manning shortfall. I could rant on and on, but I will save my breath.

Wow. What a fantastic use of man hours. I can't fathom how much this will be across the force.

CJSmith
01-16-2014, 12:15 AM
How accurate is THRMIS? It's "current" as of 31 Dec but I don't know how accurate it is. I've got a couple SrA with nothing but 5's and they were wondering what their chances were against a board. I looked at my career field manning level for SrA's and then pulled some RAW metrics for 4 and below EPRs. The 4 and below EPRs far exceeded the overage numbers for our career field.

It's not exact science but it's the best I could come up with until they release hard numbers.

J.D.C.
01-16-2014, 12:24 AM
Well when I looked at my AFSC for my base in November and then the Dec 31st list it reflected the changes in personnel for both rank changes and PCSs and separations.

HeyEng
01-16-2014, 05:48 PM
How accurate is THRMIS? It's "current" as of 31 Dec but I don't know how accurate it is. I've got a couple SrA with nothing but 5's and they were wondering what their chances were against a board. I looked at my career field manning level for SrA's and then pulled some RAW metrics for 4 and below EPRs. The 4 and below EPRs far exceeded the overage numbers for our career field.

It's not exact science but it's the best I could come up with until they release hard numbers.

THRMIS at one time was the go-to place for manning numbers, but most of the FY+ number have been removed for those without account access (outside of the portal info available). I think only a few people at A1 and AFPC are "in the know" for specific numbers.