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View Full Version : Official list of AFCS/grades eligble for VSP



ihatenonners
12-23-2013, 01:26 AM
Take the money and ruuuuuuuuun!

https://gum-crm.csd.disa.mil/ci/fattach/get/3071950/1387576323/redirect/1/filename/Enlisted%20Voluntary%20Program%20Eligibility%20Cha rt%20-%2020%20Dec%2013.pdf

Bohica
12-23-2013, 02:46 AM
That's a lot of AFSC's and ranks being looked at for voluntary/involuntary separation. There's going to be quite a few people that are gonna have to make some tough decisions about their careers.

technomage1
12-23-2013, 05:42 AM
Of course mine isn't on there and I wanted to leave. Now some poor sap who wants to stay will get booted while I put three more years in of misery and woe.

snowman
12-23-2013, 07:48 AM
i wish i could get a def answer on how it all works, what my % of retirement pay would be. My AFSC and rank is listed, I'm an 18 year MSgt who took REDUX. What would my retirement pay be? Like...36%? If so, not gonna do it...

BRUWIN
12-23-2013, 09:53 PM
Of course mine isn't on there and I wanted to leave. Now some poor sap who wants to stay will get booted while I put three more years in of misery and woe.

Could always apply for an exception to policy.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
12-23-2013, 10:02 PM
i wish i could get a def answer on how it all works, what my % of retirement pay would be. My AFSC and rank is listed, I'm an 18 year MSgt who took REDUX. What would my retirement pay be? Like...36%? If so, not gonna do it...

The charts are posted on MyPers for TERA, and the retirement is somewhere around 21% for someone who retires at 15 who took the redux. I think you would be under 36%.

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-24-2013, 11:39 AM
Ok, I have looked at the MyPers site and the Q&A, but I dont see the monetary compensation or insentive to volunteer to get out early. Anyone have the numbers of volunteer vs non-vol?

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
12-24-2013, 11:50 AM
Ok, I have looked at the MyPers site and the Q&A, but I dont see the monetary compensation or insentive to volunteer to get out early. Anyone have the numbers of volunteer vs non-vol?

The only thing I saw on MyPers were the TERA rates, redux vs none redux recipients.

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-24-2013, 12:11 PM
The only thing I saw on MyPers were the TERA rates, redux vs none redux recipients.

Me too. And thats sad right there when they say they want everyone to have all the information possible to make the most informed decission possible. Holding back the difference of incentives is utter BS. You cant tell me they dont know the amount they are willing to pay someone to volunteer to get out already. They know everything else, why is this a mystery?

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-24-2013, 12:25 PM
It cant seriously be this measly amount of money can it?

http://www.dfas.mil/retiredmilitary/plan/separation-payments/voluntary-separation-incentive.html

Calculation and Payment

In the event of your death, your VSI beneficiary will continue to receive your VSI payments.

Payments are calculated by multiplying final monthly Basic Pay by 12, then by years active duty service, and multiplied again by .025.

Payments are made over a period of time that is equal to twice the number of your years of service. For instance, if you had 10 years of service at separation, you would receive a yearly VSI payment for 20 years. Partial years are prorated. If you served 18 years 4 months, your final installment would be 4 months of pay). $900 a year for 26 years? Thats pathetic. This is the only thing I can find about VSI.

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-24-2013, 12:44 PM
And accordning to this chart, we would get more if it was involuntary. WTF?

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/2012MilPay/a/2012invsepenl.htm

Cookie Monster
12-24-2013, 12:44 PM
The undercommunication and overall timing on this whole force reduction has been staggering.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
12-24-2013, 12:50 PM
And accordning to this chart, we would get more if it was involuntary. WTF?

http://usmilitary.about.com/od/2012MilPay/a/2012invsepenl.htm

You mean there's no "I" in VSI?

imported_DannyJ
12-24-2013, 12:51 PM
No doubt about it. My career field (2S) in going to feel the reaper. Over 220+ TSgts.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
12-24-2013, 12:54 PM
It cant seriously be this measly amount of money can it?

http://www.dfas.mil/retiredmilitary/plan/separation-payments/voluntary-separation-incentive.html
$900 a year for 26 years? Thats pathetic. This is the only thing I can find about VSI.

$900 won't even cover a fraction of the cost most people will pay for the increased premiums of the Non-Affordable Health Care Act (NACA). Also, 20 years is a lot of time for Congress to renege on their promise to actually pay this money.

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-24-2013, 12:58 PM
Here's a good article to read when thinking about volunteering.

My numbers, IF this is how its going to work for enlisted, would mean getting $60k ($40k after taxes) to volunteer. Or $50k ($33k after taxes) plus about $4k a few more months to not volunteer.
http://www.airforcetimes.com/article/20110327/NEWS/103270315

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-24-2013, 01:00 PM
You mean there's no "I" in VSI?

Only if you have a job lined up that wont wait on you to serve a few more months.

AERYCK13
12-24-2013, 01:09 PM
i wish i could get a def answer on how it all works, what my % of retirement pay would be. My AFSC and rank is listed, I'm an 18 year MSgt who took REDUX. What would my retirement pay be? Like...36%? If so, not gonna do it...

If you find out, let me know... I'm in almost the exact same boat...

Golther
12-24-2013, 05:47 PM
It cant seriously be this measly amount of money can it?

http://www.dfas.mil/retiredmilitary/plan/separation-payments/voluntary-separation-incentive.html
$900 a year for 26 years? Thats pathetic. This is the only thing I can find about VSI.

I think your math is wrong for me as a SrA at 7 years I have 5040 a month.

BOSS302
12-25-2013, 03:25 PM
I think your math is wrong for me as a SrA at 7 years I have 5040 a month.

You don't even know math.

Golther
12-25-2013, 03:29 PM
2400*12=28800*7=201600*.025=5040 and i meant a year not a month.

BOSS302
12-25-2013, 03:36 PM
2400*12=28800*7=201600*.025=5040 and i meant a year not a month.

Worst math I have ever seen. Who taught you math, the public school system?

Golther
12-25-2013, 03:38 PM
Worst math I have ever seen. Who taught you math, the public school system?

That and my essential college courses.

BOSS302
12-25-2013, 03:45 PM
That and my essential college courses.

Public Speaking 101, Writing 101, and other CCAF essentials do not count.

Golther
12-25-2013, 05:55 PM
Back on topic sadly only SrA and Chief FE's are not on the list for FE's.

imported_DannyJ
12-26-2013, 01:20 AM
2400*12=28800*7=201600*.025=5040 and i meant a year not a month.

Missing a zero somewhere in there boss.

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-26-2013, 10:27 AM
3065*12=36780*13=478140*.025=11953.5/26=459.75

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-26-2013, 10:30 AM
2400*12=28800*7=201600*.025=5040 and i meant a year not a month.

I read...


Payments are made over a period of time that is equal to twice the number of your years of service. For instance, if you had 10 years of service at separation, you would receive a yearly VSI payment for 20 years. Partial years are prorated. If you served 18 years 4 months, your final installment would be 4 months of pay)....as to say the payment of 5040 was to be divided up over twice the number of years you served. Not a payment of $5040 every year.

Golther
12-27-2013, 01:29 AM
I read...

...as to say the payment of 5040 was to be divided up over twice the number of years you served. Not a payment of $5040 every year.


Good point I didn't factor that in obviously.

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-27-2013, 12:14 PM
Good point I didn't factor that in obviously.

If its the way you are saying, $12k a year is more than enough for me to volunteer to get out. I would do that in a heart beat because that would be $312k over 26 years. That seems about right in government math to "cut spending". I am sure I am on the top rung of payments, so lets go with the average of people volunteering to get out at about $8k for 18 years? They need 5,000 people a year to get out, and subtract what could be early retiries at 20% of 5k. Of the left over 4k people, another 20% of people being DOS roll back. Of the 5k, I think they said 1800 where slated for the first phase. Now, lets say everyone else (1400) take the voluntary seperation. so...

1400*(8,000*18)= is only $201Million for the first year. Now this is 5 years right? So multiply that by 5 and we get a measly $1,008,000,000 Spent for those that volunteer to get out. Guess that is savings.

edoc118
12-30-2013, 02:16 PM
Anyone know when we'll be able to apply for VSP? (Not TERA)

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
12-31-2013, 06:03 PM
Anyone know when we'll be able to apply for VSP? (Not TERA)

An exerpt from PSDM 13-129, which came out 27 Dec:

SEPARATION PROCEDURES
Application Period and Separate Effective Dates:
1. Effective 14 Jan 14 through 1 May 14, Airmen may apply for separation in lieu of meeting the Enlisted Retention Board. Airmen with 6 or more years of TAFMS as of 29 Sep 14 will be eligible for Voluntary Separation Pay (VSP) and separation NLT 29 Sep 14 in lieu of meeting the Retention Board. Those who attain 6 years of TAFMS after 29 Sep 14 but not later than 31 Jan 15 will be eligible for VSP and separation on the date they reach 6 years of TAFMS. VSP approval entitles Airmen to 1.25 times the rate of full separation pay provided they meet the minimum requirements in Atch 12. Airmen who do not qualify for VSP may apply to separate in lieu of meeting the Retention Board, but must request a separation date effective not later than 31 Jan 15.

VOLUNTARY SEPARATION PAY (VSP)
1. Retention Board eligible Airmen may apply for separation to be effective 29 Sep 14, under the Voluntary Separation Pay (VSP) program. Applications for VSP will be accepted from 14 Jan 14 through 1 May 14. NOTE: Airmen eligible for the Enlisted Retention Board who reach 6 years of service 30 Sep 14 through 31 Jan 15 may request a separation date equal to the date they complete six years of service to qualify for VSP.
2. If Airmen elect to meet the Retention Board instead of accepting VSP, they will be entitled to full separation if they are not retained. The formula for calculating full separation pay is as follows: member’s monthly base pay multiplied by 12, then multiplied by the years of total federal military service (TAFMS) and all whole months served over the total years, then multiplied by 10%. When computing total years of TAFMS, only use whole months. Whole months are calculated as fractions of 12 months. For instance, 12 years and three months equates to 12 and ¼ years. Multiply 12 times 12 and ¼ to produce the total whole months served, which equates to 147.
Full Separation Pay Example: A Staff Sergeant w/ 12 yrs and 3 months and 13 days of total active federal military service [($3095.00 monthly base pay) x 12 years x 147 (total whole months served) x (10%)] divided by 12 = $45,496.50.
3. The VSP program entitles Retention Board eligibles to 1.25 times the rate of full separation pay. The formula for calculating VSP is as follows: member’s monthly base pay multiplied by 12, then multiplied by the years of total federal military service (TAFMS) and all whole months served over the total years, then multiplied by 10% multiplied and then multiplied by 1.25. When computing total years of TAFMS, only use whole months. Whole months are calculated as fractions of 12 months. For instance, 12 years and three months equates to 12 and ¼ years. Multiply 12 times 12 and ¼ to produce the total whole months served, which equates to 147.
Voluntary Separation Pay Example: A Staff Sergeant w/ 12 yrs and 3 months and 13 days of total active federal military service [$3095.00 (monthly base pay) x 12 years x 147 (total whole months served) x (10%)] divided by 12 x 1.25 times multiplier = $56,870.62.
4. Retention Board eligible Airmen submit VSP program applications via the vMPF. Submitting a separation application in itself, does not make Airmen ineligible for the Retention Board. Only upon approval of the separation application will an eligible Retention Board Airmen no longer be considered by the Retention Board.
5. Generally, the VSP separation dates for Airmen will be honored by AFPC unless the AFPC Retirements and Separations Branch, AFPC/DPSOR, receives information that would render the member ineligible for VSP.

ihatenonners
01-07-2014, 08:12 AM
Can anybody shed some light on having to "pay back unearned bonuses, specials pays, and incentives" if you opt for VSP? How can somebody be forced to pay back something they havent earned yet? If I'm owed $500 for a bonus, does that mean they are going to take that $500 out of my VSP pay? Isnt that double-dipping? Why wouldnt they just keep the $500 they were going to pay me? Now they'll have a $1000!

Chief_KO
01-07-2014, 12:08 PM
Can anybody shed some light on having to "pay back unearned bonuses, specials pays, and incentives" if you opt for VSP? How can somebody be forced to pay back something they havent earned yet? If I'm owed $500 for a bonus, does that mean they are going to take that $500 out of my VSP pay? Isnt that double-dipping? Why wouldnt they just keep the $500 they were going to pay me? Now they'll have a $1000!

Normally this means reenlistment bonuses. You must payback the pro-rated amount of the number of years you won't be serving. I can't think of any other things that are "paid in advance".

Drackore
01-07-2014, 07:55 PM
If I were done with my Master's degree, I'd be jumping on the TERA in a heartbeat. A lot of jobs out there I can grab that can cover the difference and I'd be done with this AF nonsense. However, I am not done with the degree and I want that degree to give me comfort in the job hunt (at my age). Chances are good I'll be ok with all this stuff anyways (nothing negative other than medical and the MEB returned me to duty) so I'll probably just deal with the nonsense til 20-23 yrs.

Juggs
01-07-2014, 08:43 PM
Can anybody shed some light on having to "pay back unearned bonuses, specials pays, and incentives" if you opt for VSP? How can somebody be forced to pay back something they havent earned yet? If I'm owed $500 for a bonus, does that mean they are going to take that $500 out of my VSP pay? Isnt that double-dipping? Why wouldnt they just keep the $500 they were going to pay me? Now they'll have a $1000!

It's for nonners. You won't get shit.

imported_WILDJOKER5
01-08-2014, 11:39 AM
Is anyone seriously thinking of volunteering to get out "for the money"? In other words, the only reason you will volunteer before you meet the board will be for that 1.25 multiplier?

giggawatt
01-08-2014, 12:59 PM
Not me but that 1.25 multiplier makes a difference. For me it would be about 15K difference. I'm just not ready to go. I hate the people that hate being in the military and wanna get out but are all like "meh, I'm just gonna take my chances with the board."

Fuck you! If you don't wanna be in, take the money and GTFO!

imported_WILDJOKER5
01-08-2014, 01:08 PM
Not me but that 1.25 multiplier makes a difference. For me it would be about 15K difference. I'm just not ready to go. I hate the people that hate being in the military and wanna get out but are all like "meh, I'm just gonna take my chances with the board."

Fuck you! If you don't wanna be in, take the money and GTFO!

For me, its $60k to volunteer or $50 to wait 4-5 months and get out. Thats another $22k worth of pay plus education and insurance I dont have to pay. Plus, having a that kind of bonus in 2014 would show my income to be at about $90k and kill me in taxes. No thanks. Its no where near worth it.

technomage1
01-09-2014, 10:10 AM
We got briefed today on the various programs. It really depends on your situation if volunteering for the VSP and taking the 1.25 or waiting to get the boot and getting the 1.0 is better because you will be eligible for unemployment benefits with the later but not the former. Those vary from state to state so may tip the scale for some.

Also, we were briefed that everyone in the identified VSP/TERA overage grades/fields will get a paper showing their overall base and AF wide standing in the mix to help make an informed decision to volunteer or not. Also the numbers to be cut will be identified. For example, if you're 17/132 in the AF and they're cutting 10 people at your grade/AFSC then chances are you won't be picked. But if you're 131/132 then it would likely be in your interest to volunteer.

Also if interest during the brief is that the voluntary boards will meet monthly. If they get all they need grade/AFSC wise month into the program then they will stop and not go any further, for example. So apply early if you want out.

They also don't believe - and this came from the wing king, who said it came from the CSAF - that there will be any more cuts in future since we will not be able to maintain our bases/missions if we go any lower. They will need to look at shutting done wings vs personnel cuts since the just over 300k mark represents the bare bones. I'm not sure I believe this, just because I figure the next CSAF when the budget gets cut again won't be able to hold that line. Mind, it's what should happen - and frankly should have already happened - but politics and pork keep bases open that by all rights we don't need.

imported_WILDJOKER5
01-09-2014, 02:34 PM
We got briefed today on the various programs. It really depends on your situation if volunteering for the VSP and taking the 1.25 or waiting to get the boot and getting the 1.0 is better because you will be eligible for unemployment benefits with the later but not the former. Those vary from state to state so may tip the scale for some.You also get paid 5 months more and health care and education. With my pay alone, I can get $60k to volunteer, or $72k TOTAL to be forced out. That because I will be paid an extra $22k for working 5 more months.


Also, we were briefed that everyone in the identified VSP/TERA overage grades/fields will get a paper showing their overall base and AF wide standing in the mix to help make an informed decision to volunteer or not. Also the numbers to be cut will be identified. For example, if you're 17/132 in the AF and they're cutting 10 people at your grade/AFSC then chances are you won't be picked. But if you're 131/132 then it would likely be in your interest to volunteer.I dont see any interest in volunteering unless you have a job or college lined up already.


Also if interest during the brief is that the voluntary boards will meet monthly. If they get all they need grade/AFSC wise month into the program then they will stop and not go any further, for example. So apply early if you want out.

They also don't believe - and this came from the wing king, who said it came from the CSAF - that there will be any more cuts in future since we will not be able to maintain our bases/missions if we go any lower. They will need to look at shutting done wings vs personnel cuts since the just over 300k mark represents the bare bones. I'm not sure I believe this, just because I figure the next CSAF when the budget gets cut again won't be able to hold that line. Mind, it's what should happen - and frankly should have already happened - but politics and pork keep bases open that by all rights we don't need.

Agreed

imported_DannyJ
01-09-2014, 05:31 PM
I get WHY BRAC hasn't happened. Too many politicans worried more about money that bases bring to their area vs. being able to keep an effective AF. That said, it really does need to happen. We have round abouts 2x as many bases as we really need (like why we have 5 friggin bases in Texas, 3 in Florida, 3 in Colorado, etc; which are only the AD bases). I'm mystified why we have so many bases in middle America (the Army I get, the AF tho?) when it only takes 5.5 hours to fly from LA to NY.

imported_WILDJOKER5
01-09-2014, 05:50 PM
I get WHY BRAC hasn't happened. Too many politicans worried more about money that bases bring to their area vs. being able to keep an effective AF. That said, it really does need to happen. We have round abouts 2x as many bases as we really need (like why we have 5 friggin bases in Texas, 3 in Florida, 3 in Colorado, etc; which are only the AD bases). I'm mystified why we have so many bases in middle America (the Army I get, the AF tho?) when it only takes 5.5 hours to fly from LA to NY.

Why so many in Germany, GB, Italy, Korea, Japan, and so on?

SomeRandomGuy
01-09-2014, 06:03 PM
I get WHY BRAC hasn't happened. Too many politicans worried more about money that bases bring to their area vs. being able to keep an effective AF. That said, it really does need to happen. We have round abouts 2x as many bases as we really need (like why we have 5 friggin bases in Texas, 3 in Florida, 3 in Colorado, etc; which are only the AD bases). I'm mystified why we have so many bases in middle America (the Army I get, the AF tho?) when it only takes 5.5 hours to fly from LA to NY.

The bases in middle america actually make more sense than the bases on the coast. The cost of living and land is way cheaper in the middle of nowhere. Just talking AF bases but it would definitly save some money to close bases in the DC area and also Hanscom. Have you ever seen the BAH rates for Hanscom? An E1-E4 with dependants gets $2139.00 per month. Compare that to somewhere like Ohio where that same E1-E4 gets $1152.00. That is $987 per month difference or $11,844 per year. Imagine how fast that adds up when multiplied by number of people stationed at the base and also factoring the higher rates for higher ranks.

imported_DannyJ
01-09-2014, 06:29 PM
The bases in middle america actually make more sense than the bases on the coast. The cost of living and land is way cheaper in the middle of nowhere. Just talking AF bases but it would definitly save some money to close bases in the DC area and also Hanscom. Have you ever seen the BAH rates for Hanscom? An E1-E4 with dependants gets $2139.00 per month. Compare that to somewhere like Ohio where that same E1-E4 gets $1152.00. That is $987 per month difference or $11,844 per year. Imagine how fast that adds up when multiplied by number of people stationed at the base and also factoring the higher rates for higher ranks.

I get that you, as a finance guy, are looking at it from the fianance perspective, but having bases on our borders (or near to) makes more sense defense wise. I'm guessing if we did do some BRAC closures, a lot of the unnecessary infrastructure we have now could go and I'd be willing to be the cost change in BAH would be less than all that. I'm not suggesting more people cuts, but the cost savings on upkeep on all the facilities would be pretty considerable. The folks that would be out of a job due to the BRAC (IE MPF guys) could be retrained into areas that need them. Easy call.

imported_DannyJ
01-09-2014, 06:32 PM
Why so many in Germany, GB, Italy, Korea, Japan, and so on?

ZERO arguement on this point. ZERO.

imnohero
01-10-2014, 02:12 AM
regarding bases on the coasts
1) Navy needs to be near the water
2) Aircraft tend to be stationed in the northern coastal regions, that way they can cross the oceans without refueling (or the polar routes, if we are talking about cold war strategy)
3) Because of 1 and 2, units that require transportation overseas tend to be stationed nearby for faster mobilization

Re: BRAC
There have been a lot (dozens) of military installations closed or commercialized in the last couple decades. There is actually a fairly good argument that we need the remaining infrastructure for strategic reasons. I'm not sure I'm persuaded by it, but it's not nonsense.

imported_blacksheep1208
01-10-2014, 07:52 AM
I get WHY BRAC hasn't happened. Too many politicans worried more about money that bases bring to their area vs. being able to keep an effective AF. That said, it really does need to happen. We have round abouts 2x as many bases as we really need (like why we have 5 friggin bases in Texas, 3 in Florida, 3 in Colorado, etc; which are only the AD bases). I'm mystified why we have so many bases in middle America (the Army I get, the AF tho?) when it only takes 5.5 hours to fly from LA to NY.

You realize that because has a state has more than one base probably means that those bases have different missions that you just can't pick up, move, and cram into another base. I can tell you for a fact that Peterson, Schriever, and Buckley have vastly different missions supporting things that will never move in our lifetimes. While there may be ones out there that need to be shutdown, the fact that they are located in the center of the country has a reason behind it and doesn't mean they need to go away.