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View Full Version : Who still believes there is no voter fraud?



imported_WILDJOKER5
12-18-2013, 06:14 PM
Its really hard to find these people since there is no real record of who is voting. This is why the valid ID is needed. To find 17 people this way is seldom due to the fact that its hard to prove a negative when there is no verification method..

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/18/non-citizens-caught-voting-in-2012-presidential-election-in-key-swing-state/

imnohero
12-18-2013, 06:35 PM
5,364,306 ballets were cast in the 2012 prediential election in Ohio. 17 non-citizen's voted in that election. A rate of 0.0003%
Even IF that rate was 100 fold and extend it to the entire country, it doesn't change the outcome of the last presidential election. Obama would have won by 1.97% instead of 2%. That's statistical noise and the electoral college makes this sort of math completely irrelevant.

Quite frankly, this is not even in the top 20 of things we need to worry about as a country.

sandsjames
12-18-2013, 07:52 PM
5,364,306 ballets were cast in the 2012 prediential election in Ohio. 17 non-citizen's voted in that election. A rate of 0.0003%
Even IF that rate was 100 fold and extend it to the entire country, it doesn't change the outcome of the last presidential election. Obama would have won by 1.97% instead of 2%. That's statistical noise and the electoral college makes this sort of math completely irrelevant.

Quite frankly, this is not even in the top 20 of things we need to worry about as a country.

Who cares if it doesn't affect the outcome? If I create $200 worth of counterfeit money, it doesn't affect the economy in anyway. It doesn't hurt anyone as it's just a very, very small fraction of the money spent in the U.S. However, I'm sure if someone found out about it my ass would be in jail. That's why they create money that is easily identifiable. For this same reason, voters should be easily identifiable by having a valid photo ID.

Don't forget, if they are voting fraudulently, they are using another registered voters name, which means that the voter who is entitled to vote does not get to. Are you OK with some qualified voters being denied the right because of a fraudulent voter taking it away from them?

imnohero
12-18-2013, 08:10 PM
I didn't say it wasn't a crime. I didn't say it should go unchecked or didn't deserve investigation and prosecution when found. My point is that it isn't a problem of such size that it needs the national level attention that it is getting, especially compared to the far more serious and pressing problems facing this country.

To use your example: What would you think if you saw a story about $200 of counterfeit money being used 2 years ago as the lead in for national level news, "above the fold", "top of the webpage"?

TJMAC77SP
12-19-2013, 03:38 AM
I didn't say it wasn't a crime. I didn't say it should go unchecked or didn't deserve investigation and prosecution when found. My point is that it isn't a problem of such size that it needs the national level attention that it is getting, especially compared to the far more serious and pressing problems facing this country.

To use your example: What would you think if you saw a story about $200 of counterfeit money being used 2 years ago as the lead in for national level news, "above the fold", "top of the webpage"?

But if voter ID laws will reduce such fraud, isn't that by definition a good thing?

And...........citing only specific numbers of known cases (where it can be legitimately assumed there are unknown cases) is not painting an accurate picture. If so such thinking would preclude anyone from citing estimated rape and sexual assault statistics and I read about them everyday.


EDIT: Added a little emphasis for those who have no real response.

imnohero
12-19-2013, 04:23 AM
yes, citing actual numbers is a terrible way to examine an event. Let's just base legislation on how we "feel" instead. Or better yet, let's base it on how partisan rhetoric tells us to feel, that way we don't have to think at all.

AJBIGJ
12-19-2013, 06:55 AM
An issue sure, if someone really wanted to revise the outcome of past elections however, they would convince fellas like myself to vote for the main dude over going third party, that will never happen with a Mitt Romney type of candidate being presented as the Obama "alternative".

sandsjames
12-19-2013, 01:04 PM
But if voter ID laws will reduce such fraud, isn't that by definition a good thing?

And...........citing only specific numbers of known cases is not painting an accurate picture. If so such thinking would preclude anyone from citing estimated rape and sexual assault statistics and I read about them everyday.

Yes, yes, yes they would. I can't understand the resistance to making someone prove they are an American Citizen before exercising a right afforded to American Citizens.

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-19-2013, 01:17 PM
5,364,306 ballets were cast in the 2012 prediential election in Ohio. 17 non-citizen's voted in that election. A rate of 0.0003%
Even IF that rate was 100 fold and extend it to the entire country, it doesn't change the outcome of the last presidential election. Obama would have won by 1.97% instead of 2%. That's statistical noise and the electoral college makes this sort of math completely irrelevant.

Quite frankly, this is not even in the top 20 of things we need to worry about as a country.

To even find 17 people in a system where there is no records of who actually voted, I would say that is a big deal.

TJMAC77SP
12-19-2013, 03:16 PM
yes, citing actual numbers is a terrible way to examine an event. Let's just base legislation on how we "feel" instead. Or better yet, let's base it on how partisan rhetoric tells us to feel, that way we don't have to think at all.

Come one............you can do better than that.

imnohero
12-19-2013, 03:19 PM
So can you.

RetC141BFCC
12-19-2013, 03:44 PM
This is why I believe in Voter ID laws. I would also like to see the law changed that you cannot campaign within 1000 yards of a Polling place. Look how close this election was. Where I went to vote one of the parties was handing out sample ballots prefilled out. I was not given one nor was my wife when she went to vote. I stayed and watched the only people who were given sample ballots where minorities. IF I was a minority I think I would have been insulted that the party thought I did not have enough common sense to know who to vote for With over 500 people voting at just my polling place I think this cost the election. I do not understand what is so wrong about requiring an ID to vote. You cannot cash a check take out a library book or function is society without an ID. My Union does not support voter ID laws and we disagree about this a lot. I do support ID laws. BTW the party handing OUT BALLOTS BEGAINS WITH A D.

In late November, the State Board of Elections declared Herring the winner by 165 votes out of more than 2.2 million cast, a margin so slim it entitled Obenshain to a government-paid recount
BTW this is from the Was

TJMAC77SP
12-19-2013, 07:33 PM
So can you.

I did

TJMAC77SP
12-19-2013, 07:35 PM
This is why I believe in Voter ID laws. I would also like to see the law changed that you cannot campaign within 1000 yards of a Polling place. Look how close this election was. Where I went to vote one of the parties was handing out sample ballots prefilled out. I was not given one nor was my wife when she went to vote. I stayed and watched the only people who were given sample ballots where minorities. IF I was a minority I think I would have been insulted that the party thought I did not have enough common sense to know who to vote for With over 500 people voting at just my polling place I think this cost the election. I do not understand what is so wrong about requiring an ID to vote. You cannot cash a check take out a library book or function is society without an ID. My Union does not support voter ID laws and we disagree about this a lot. I do support ID laws. BTW the party handing OUT BALLOTS BEGAINS WITH A D.

In late November, the State Board of Elections declared Herring the winner by 165 votes out of more than 2.2 million cast, a margin so slim it entitled Obenshain to a government-paid recount
BTW this is from the Was

I think if you did a by-person poll of your union you would find most honestly agree with the laws but can not go against the union leadership and policy which is to support the Democratic Party no matter what. I understand this but at what point does an organization feel the need to actually represent the wishes of their members?

RetC141BFCC
01-01-2014, 03:46 PM
I think if you did a by-person poll of your union you would find most honestly agree with the laws but can not go against the union leadership and policy which is to support the Democratic Party no matter what. I understand this but at what point does an organization feel the need to actually represent the wishes of their members?

I am one of the few in my union who vote for the person not the party. I vote for what I think is right.

TJMAC77SP
01-01-2014, 07:19 PM
I am one of the few in my union who vote for the person not the party. I vote for what I think is right.

You would be rare. I grew up in a union family and the indoctrination from day one of membership is "Vote the union way regardless".

garhkal
01-02-2014, 06:32 AM
Who cares if it doesn't affect the outcome? If I create $200 worth of counterfeit money, it doesn't affect the economy in anyway. It doesn't hurt anyone as it's just a very, very small fraction of the money spent in the U.S. However, I'm sure if someone found out about it my ass would be in jail. That's why they create money that is easily identifiable. For this same reason, voters should be easily identifiable by having a valid photo ID.

Don't forget, if they are voting fraudulently, they are using another registered voters name, which means that the voter who is entitled to vote does not get to. Are you OK with some qualified voters being denied the right because of a fraudulent voter taking it away from them?

Exactly... While what fraud happens MAY be a small drop in the bucket, does not excuse it nor should it make it ok.

Salty Old Dog
01-03-2014, 07:15 PM
5,364,306 ballets were cast in the 2012 prediential election in Ohio. 17 non-citizen's voted in that election. A rate of 0.0003%
Even IF that rate was 100 fold and extend it to the entire country, it doesn't change the outcome of the last presidential election. Obama would have won by 1.97% instead of 2%. That's statistical noise and the electoral college makes this sort of math completely irrelevant.

Quite frankly, this is not even in the top 20 of things we need to worry about as a country.

WRONG. Seventeen non-voters were CAUGHT. No telling how many others might have happened, without anyone finding out. I'd bet there's just a few more questionables, that they suspect but can't prove.....yet.

Remember the lady in Illinois (if I remember right) who voted for Obama SIX times?? She wanted to make sure he won, and didn't see the problem with the fact that she had voted 6 times, and committed voter fraud. To her, the ends justified the means.

I wonder how many more like her there were?

Sadly, even if we could get around the ludicrous notion that requiring a photo ID to vote is being called discrimination, I doubt it would make any difference. As we've seen, many times now in various news shows, it doesn't take anything but a few passport photos and a few hundred dollars, and you can buy yourself a fake identification, which could then be used to fraudulently vote under an assumed name. No doubt, there are people out there that would have gladly put up the money in swing states, just to ensure Mr. Obama got a 2nd term.

garhkal
01-03-2014, 09:37 PM
Remember the lady in Illinois (if I remember right) who voted for Obama SIX times?? She wanted to make sure he won, and didn't see the problem with the fact that she had voted 6 times, and committed voter fraud. To her, the ends justified the means.

The fact she willfully admitted to it and (to my knowledge) still has not been charged with anything shows exactly how 'serious' the govt is at stopping voter fraud.

imnohero
01-03-2014, 10:05 PM
The fact she willfully admitted to it and (to my knowledge) still has not been charged with anything shows exactly how 'serious' the govt is at stopping voter fraud.


Welcome to 6 months ago.

She was charged, convicted and got 5 years. http://patdollard.com/2013/05/ohio-woman-who-voted-6-times-for-obama-convicted-of-felony-voter-fraud/

Oh yeah, I forgot, if it wasn't on FoxNews, it didn't happen. Oh wait?! http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/19/cincinnati-poll-worker-sentenced-to-5-years-for-voter-fraud-in-presidential/

Pull your head out of your ass and get some facts.

sandsjames
01-03-2014, 10:26 PM
Sadly, even if we could get around the ludicrous notion that requiring a photo ID to vote is being called discrimination, I doubt it would make any difference. As we've seen, many times now in various news shows, it doesn't take anything but a few passport photos and a few hundred dollars, and you can buy yourself a fake identification, which could then be used to fraudulently vote under an assumed name. No doubt, there are people out there that would have gladly put up the money in swing states, just to ensure Mr. Obama got a 2nd term.

But the people who would be discriminated against wouldn't be able to afford the fake ideas. Don't forget, it's only the poor people who would be affected. The argument is that they can't afford a $25 ID card, there's no way they could afford a couple hundred dollars for a fake one. Oh, wait, that would only be true if the "discrimination" was real.

TJMAC77SP
01-03-2014, 10:34 PM
Evidently the case in Cincinnati uncovered some other issues (http://news.cincinnati.com/article/20130814/NEWS010602/308140034/).................

If it was on Fox News why the reference to them? The poster was not informed, I get that. Why the FNC reference if it was irrelevant? Did the poster mention FNC and I missed it?

I was particularly concerned with some of the remarks of the convicted poll worker, who even after pleading no contest and getting sentenced to prison claims "she was targeted for political reasons". This despite the investigation proving that "Richardson had been casting extra votes for years, forging ballots in the names of her comatose sister Montez Richardson and her granddaughter India Richardson".

Rizzo77
01-04-2014, 02:55 AM
Is anyone concerned that an anonymous person can obtain the ballot of the Attorney General of the U.S.?

http://www.dailypaul.com/225610/voter-fraud-video-imposter-given-attorney-general-holder-s-ballot-by-mccullough-monday-april-9

I guess I have to paraphrase Keanu Reeves from the movie Parenthood: "you need a license to buy a dog, to drive a car - hell, you even need a license to catch a fish. But they'll let any butt-reaming asshole be a voter."

This goes well beyond the problems with "voter I.D.". It also goes to the absurd ebt cards and georgebushphones: There HAS to be SOME control measure, because free stuff can't exist when we who pay become broke.

garhkal
01-04-2014, 07:22 PM
Welcome to 6 months ago.

She was charged, convicted and got 5 years. http://patdollard.com/2013/05/ohio-woman-who-voted-6-times-for-obama-convicted-of-felony-voter-fraud/

Oh yeah, I forgot, if it wasn't on FoxNews, it didn't happen. Oh wait?! http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/07/19/cincinnati-poll-worker-sentenced-to-5-years-for-voter-fraud-in-presidential/

Pull your head out of your ass and get some facts.

Hm. Thanks for posting that. Strange it was on the site but i don't remember hearing about it on the news channel itself.



I guess I have to paraphrase Keanu Reeves from the movie Parenthood: "you need a license to buy a dog, to drive a car - hell, you even need a license to catch a fish. But they'll let any butt-reaming asshole be a voter."

It does seem that way.

Measure Man
01-04-2014, 07:35 PM
The founding fathers did not need a photo ID to vote.

USN - Retired
01-04-2014, 09:35 PM
The founding fathers did not need a photo ID to vote.

And only white men could vote.

Measure Man
01-04-2014, 10:24 PM
And only white men could vote.

The Constitution was amended to change that.

TJMAC77SP
01-05-2014, 06:08 AM
The founding fathers did not need a photo ID to vote.

............perhaps because there was no such thing? The didn't need a license to ride a horse to the Continental Congress either.

garhkal
01-05-2014, 07:28 PM
Nor was there such thing as voting registration.

imnohero
01-05-2014, 07:29 PM
And only white landholding males were allowed to vote

sandsjames
01-05-2014, 08:38 PM
The Constitution was amended to change that.


As it should be for IDs.

CORNELIUSSEON
01-12-2014, 06:05 PM
Its really hard to find these people since there is no real record of who is voting. This is why the valid ID is needed. To find 17 people this way is seldom due to the fact that its hard to prove a negative when there is no verification method..

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/12/18/non-citizens-caught-voting-in-2012-presidential-election-in-key-swing-state/

The most common form of voter fraud - indeed the only really successful one - is the case where the perpetrator is known to the Poll Workers. We tend to forget that - in most cases - the Voters and the Poll Workers live in the same district, indeed may have grown up together, went to the same schools, attended the same churches, and have other things in common as well. If someone walks up to the polling place who is unknown to the poll workers, the fact that they don't know the person should mark the person as a suspect. That being the case, there is no reason to check everyone who comes to vote.

RetC141BFCC
01-12-2014, 06:36 PM
The most common form of voter fraud - indeed the only really successful one - is the case where the perpetrator is known to the Poll Workers. We tend to forget that - in most cases - the Voters and the Poll Workers live in the same district, indeed may have grown up together, went to the same schools, attended the same churches, and have other things in common as well. If someone walks up to the polling place who is unknown to the poll workers, the fact that they don't know the person should mark the person as a suspect. That being the case, there is no reason to check everyone who comes to vote.

IN VA the last state senate seat last time I checked was down to a 10 vote difference. 10 votes will decide if VA state house is D or R. And you still beleive we should not have voter ID laws? If the Dem win it will be a 20 to 20 seat tie. Who cast the deceding Vote? The LTGOV a DEM thats who.

CORNELIUSSEON
01-12-2014, 06:44 PM
IN VA the last state senate seat last time I checked was down to a 10 vote difference. 10 votes will decide if VA state house is D or R. And you still beleive we should not have voter ID laws? If the Dem win it will be a 20 to 20 seat tie. Who cast the deceding Vote? The LTGOV a DEM thats who.

Sounds like "Sour Grapes" to me! Would you feel the same way if the Lieutenant Governor was a Republican?

RetC141BFCC
01-12-2014, 06:47 PM
Sounds like "Sour Grapes" to me! Would you feel the same way if the Lieutenant Governor was a Republican?

yes I would. I would feel the same no matter what. I already told you how I feel about voter fraud and handing out sample ballots at the door. I am hard Core union and mostly vote D. But I due Vote the issue and person

LogDog
01-12-2014, 09:09 PM
The most common form of voter fraud - indeed the only really successful one - is the case where the perpetrator is known to the Poll Workers. We tend to forget that - in most cases - the Voters and the Poll Workers live in the same district, indeed may have grown up together, went to the same schools, attended the same churches, and have other things in common as well. If someone walks up to the polling place who is unknown to the poll workers, the fact that they don't know the person should mark the person as a suspect. That being the case, there is no reason to check everyone who comes to vote.
I've been a poll worker for eight years there is no way I know most of the 500 plus voters in my precinct. The reason is often the precinct I work is not the precinct I live in although it is within the same city limits with a voter population of about 8,500 voters. We don't require the use of any ID unless there is a HAVA note by their name on the voter roster. This means when the person registered they didn't provide the required ID on the the form. With these people, we require one of the about 20 acceptable forms of ID listed by the Registrar of Voters (who happens to be a Republican).

Do I think voter fraud is a problem? No, because it is too risky for the person trying to fraudulently vote to get away with it. They are taking the big chance that someone working the polls knows the voter they're pretending to be. Same goes with a voter in line waiting to vote recognizing the person as not being the person they claim to be.

If you are worried about voter fraud you shouldn't be because it is very rare whereas election fraud is a more of a threat.

CORNELIUSSEON
01-13-2014, 04:53 AM
yes I would. I would feel the same no matter what. I already told you how I feel about voter fraud and handing out sample ballots at the door. I am hard Core union and mostly vote D. But I due Vote the issue and person

i get my Sample Ballot in the mail about a week prior to the election. The purpose of the Sample Ballot is to let the voter know the order of the posting of the candidates on the Voting Machine so that He/She won't make a mistake when they actually vote.

The next time you get your Sample Ballot, take a good look at it because it will ALWAYS have a phrase in clear lettering that says something along the lines of: "Sample Ballot; For informational purposes only; Not valid for voting."

I am a Retired Union Officer, and have run for Union Office several times before my retirement. I've also observed the counting of ballots at the end of those elections. In addition, I've served as Democratic County Committeeman for the 2nd Election District of the 53rd Assembly District, New York State Assembly back in the 1970s, and so I've administered the Polling Place for the 2nd Election District, and had an actual case of attempted voter fraud take place at the poll that I was running, and the person attempting to perform the fraud was another County Committeeman in our Assembly District who was a member of the same Democratic Party organization I belonged to. He expected me to let him not only vote fraudulently at my Poll (We members all voted at our respective Polls early in the morning so that we wouldn't forget to vote, and so we could certify that the machines were functional at the start of the election.) since he would have voted twice if I had let him vote at my Poll, but he also expected me to let him do so without his signing the Voter Register, which would have meant that he would have signed the register fraudulently. Recognizing him immediately when he arrived, I refused him the place in line, and had the Police remove him from the Polling Place. The point is that while you are correct that you can't know everyone who comes to your Polling Place, I am right that I've worked the Poll often enough to where I would recognize that someone presenting him/her self at my poll would stick out like a sore thumb, especially since I had visited the house of every Registered Democrat in my District prior to Election Day, and my Republican opposite number had visited every Republican who likewise lived in the District, and between us we could tell a Registered Voter from someone who wasn't registered.

garhkal
01-13-2014, 05:41 AM
No, because it is too risky for the person trying to fraudulently vote to get away with it. They are taking the big chance that someone working the polls knows the voter they're pretending to be..

Is it though? What penalties do they get for getting caught?

TJMAC77SP
01-13-2014, 02:45 PM
The most common form of voter fraud - indeed the only really successful one - is the case where the perpetrator is known to the Poll Workers. We tend to forget that - in most cases - the Voters and the Poll Workers live in the same district, indeed may have grown up together, went to the same schools, attended the same churches, and have other things in common as well. If someone walks up to the polling place who is unknown to the poll workers, the fact that they don't know the person should mark the person as a suspect. That being the case, there is no reason to check everyone who comes to vote.

Your unsupported assertion of the "most common form of voter fraud" would only work in very small precincts with very small populations (i.e. very rural areas). Asserting this anywhere else is just silly. I can guarantee you that the mostly senior aged poll workers in my precinct know very, very few of the voters they see. I would guess the same holds true in any precinct where you live. In any case there is ample reason to check everyone who comes to vote.

CORNELIUSSEON
01-13-2014, 04:40 PM
Your unsupported assertion of the "most common form of voter fraud" would only work in very small precincts with very small populations (i.e. very rural areas). Asserting this anywhere else is just silly. I can guarantee you that the mostly senior aged poll workers in my precinct know very, very few of the voters they see. I would guess the same holds true in any precinct where you live. In any case there is ample reason to check everyone who comes to vote.

If you read my reply (Posting #37) on this thread, you will see that I supported what I said from personal experience. That experience was from the 1978 NY State Assembly Elections.

LogDog
01-13-2014, 06:32 PM
Is it though? What penalties do they get for getting caught?
Penalties vary by state. For California, the penalties are:

The criminal penalty for fraudulently voting when not legally qualified or for voting more than once when qualified is a fine of $300 to $500, one to two years in prison, and disenfranchisement. Anyone who votes or attempts to vote by assuming the name of another is subject to a fine of $500, one year in prison, and disenfranchisement (CGS ยง 9-360).

http://www.cga.ct.gov/2004/rpt/2004-R-0865.htm

TJMAC77SP
01-13-2014, 08:28 PM
If you read my reply (Posting #37) on this thread, you will see that I supported what I said from personal experience. That experience was from the 1978 NY State Assembly Elections.

That is not 'supporting' an argument at all. We are very used to your insertion of irrelevant personal history into the forums but your 'experience'. In fact I call BS on personally visiting every registered democrat in four counties of NY. That number is in the thousands.

RetC141BFCC
01-13-2014, 08:34 PM
i get my Sample Ballot in the mail about a week prior to the election. The purpose of the Sample Ballot is to let the voter know the order of the posting of the candidates on the Voting Machine so that He/She won't make a mistake when they actually vote.

The next time you get your Sample Ballot, take a good look at it because it will ALWAYS have a phrase in clear lettering that says something along the lines of: "Sample Ballot; For informational purposes only; Not valid for voting."

I am a Retired Union Officer, and have run for Union Office several times before my retirement. I've also observed the counting of ballots at the end of those elections. In addition, I've served as Democratic County Committeeman for the 2nd Election District of the 53rd Assembly District, New York State Assembly back in the 1970s, and so I've administered the Polling Place for the 2nd Election District, and had an actual case of attempted voter fraud take place at the poll that I was running, and the person attempting to perform the fraud was another County Committeeman in our Assembly District who was a member of the same Democratic Party organization I belonged to. He expected me to let him not only vote fraudulently at my Poll (We members all voted at our respective Polls early in the morning so that we wouldn't forget to vote, and so we could certify that the machines were functional at the start of the election.) since he would have voted twice if I had let him vote at my Poll, but he also expected me to let him do so without his signing the Voter Register, which would have meant that he would have signed the register fraudulently. Recognizing him immediately when he arrived, I refused him the place in line, and had the Police remove him from the Polling Place. The point is that while you are correct that you can't know everyone who comes to your Polling Place, I am right that I've worked the Poll often enough to where I would recognize that someone presenting him/her self at my poll would stick out like a sore thumb, especially since I had visited the house of every Registered Democrat in my District prior to Election Day, and my Republican opposite number had visited every Republican who likewise lived in the District, and between us we could tell a Registered Voter from someone who wasn't registered.

Next time I will scan and post it here. The sample Ballot was marked by the D party to show voters who to Vote for it was a sample ballot filled out given to a Voter 50 feet from the polling place door. Did you catch the PART WERE I SAID FILLED OUT NAMES MARKED. I do beleive in NY its a 1000 feet from a polling station am i right? That could have made the differince in this election

SomeRandomGuy
01-15-2014, 03:55 PM
5,364,306 ballets were cast in the 2012 prediential election in Ohio. 17 non-citizen's voted in that election. A rate of 0.0003%
Even IF that rate was 100 fold and extend it to the entire country, it doesn't change the outcome of the last presidential election. Obama would have won by 1.97% instead of 2%. That's statistical noise and the electoral college makes this sort of math completely irrelevant.

Quite frankly, this is not even in the top 20 of things we need to worry about as a country.

I thought this was interesting. In the Novemeber election there were 47 races in Ohio decided by 1 vote or less. While 17 non-citizens voting would not have affected the presedential election it absolutely could have affected local issues such as school bonds or city council elections.

http://www.daytondailynews.com/news/news/local-govt-politics/one-vote-really-did-matter-in-november-election/ncnpW/