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imported_WILDJOKER5
12-16-2013, 01:21 PM
So, we all know the out spoken Atheist are veomently against Christmas having anything to do with Christ or Christians. But do they tell their kids their is a santa? What is the difference between having their kids believe in Santa at Christmas and letting their kids believe in Christ? Since they want to make it a public display against Christ, would they be ok with someone telling their kid there is no Santa?

http://pix11.com/2013/12/09/atheist-billboard-in-times-square-deletes-christ-from-christmas/

AFcynic
12-16-2013, 02:57 PM
Great topic!

I am an athiest, and my wife is slowly becoming one after years of not practicing any kind of religion. We've raised our kids in a non-religious environment, but we celebrate the holidays with the tree, gift giving, friends, family, and of course - booze. I know it's contradictory, but who cares? We decided to celebrate the holiday OUR way, and we taught our kids why other people celebrate it in a more "traditional/normal" way.

We told our kids that Santa was real. When my son was old enough to realize that it's impossible for a dude to deliver toys to every house all around the world in one night, we let him in on the scam. He actually pieced it together a year before when Santa used the same gift wrap as mommy and daddy did on their gifts to each other. We explained why other folks celebrate Christmas with religion, and we told him the story of Jesus. He wasn't buying the baby born to a virgin thing, and the whole coming back from the dead thing. Throw in a talking snake, and we had an easier time telling him that Star Wars was based on a true story.

My wife and I are smart enough to know that babies are born athiests, and are indoctrinated into religion. When/if my kids ever want to get involved with religion, they're welcome to participate. It's their life, their beliefs, and they can take control of it.

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-16-2013, 03:11 PM
Great topic!

I am an athiest, and my wife is slowly becoming one after years of not practicing any kind of religion. We've raised our kids in a non-religious environment, but we celebrate the holidays with the tree, gift giving, friends, family, and of course - booze. I know it's contradictory, but who cares? We decided to celebrate the holiday OUR way, and we taught our kids why other people celebrate it in a more "traditional/normal" way.

We told our kids that Santa was real. When my son was old enough to realize that it's impossible for a dude to deliver toys to every house all around the world in one night, we let him in on the scam. He actually pieced it together a year before when Santa used the same gift wrap as mommy and daddy did on their gifts to each other. We explained why other folks celebrate Christmas with religion, and we told him the story of Jesus. He wasn't buying the baby born to a virgin thing, and the whole coming back from the dead thing. Throw in a talking snake, and we had an easier time telling him that Star Wars was based on a true story.

My wife and I are smart enough to know that babies are born athiests, and are indoctrinated into religion. When/if my kids ever want to get involved with religion, they're welcome to participate. It's their life, their beliefs, and they can take control of it.

Well, you are the opposite of the people I talk about. But good on you to let your kids decide what they want to believe. If your son had heard of Santa and Jesus growing up, do you really think it would be hard for him to disblieve one but not the other? You say indoctronated, but isnt that what telling them about santa really is? IF we are born Atheist, then where does the idea of a higher being come from? Do you believe it was the biggest scheme ever concieved and people just ran with it? L. Ron Hubbert (scientology founder) said the quickest way to become a millionaire is to start a religion.

AFcynic
12-16-2013, 03:41 PM
I was taught that the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, and Jesus were real when I was young. I stopped believing in the first three when I was around 10/11, and I stopped believing in religion around 19 years of age. So, if my son had been taught about both Santa and Jesus, I would expect him to start asking logical questions about faith. It's healthy for his mind to question the powers that be. With that being said, I wouldn't try to influence him towards atheism, but I would give him honest, straightforward, scientific answers.

In my opinion, the idea of a higher being comes from mankind's fascination with what happens to us when we die. The Egyptians believed in numerous gods, and they were convinced they were right. That was all changed into a single entity, and then everybody was convinced that was right. As humans continue to evolve and get smarter, religion will eventually disappear. Man simply cannot accept that you don't know what happens to you when you die, until you die.

The Bible was written by men, for men. Corrupt men took control of it, and now you have billion dollar churches, the Vatican, the Mormon HQ in Utah, and people like Falwell, Robertson, Farrakhan, Muslim extremists, Christian fundamentalists, etc. The small minority of each (believers and non-believers alike) have taken everyone's beliefs hostage, and the crazies seem to be the only ones that get the attention.

I don't care how any of you practice religion, and I appreciate it when believers just let me believe in not believing.

Giant Voice
12-16-2013, 04:14 PM
I was taught that the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, and Jesus were real when I was young. I stopped believing in the first three when I was around 10/11, and I stopped believing in religion around 19 years of age. So, if my son had been taught about both Santa and Jesus, I would expect him to start asking logical questions about faith. It's healthy for his mind to question the powers that be. With that being said, I wouldn't try to influence him towards atheism, but I would give him honest, straightforward, scientific answers.

In my opinion, the idea of a higher being comes from mankind's fascination with what happens to us when we die. The Egyptians believed in numerous gods, and they were convinced they were right. That was all changed into a single entity, and then everybody was convinced that was right. As humans continue to evolve and get smarter, religion will eventually disappear. Man simply cannot accept that you don't know what happens to you when you die, until you die.

The Bible was written by men, for men. Corrupt men took control of it, and now you have billion dollar churches, the Vatican, the Mormon HQ in Utah, and people like Falwell, Robertson, Farrakhan, Muslim extremists, Christian fundamentalists, etc. The small minority of each (believers and non-believers alike) have taken everyone's beliefs hostage, and the crazies seem to be the only ones that get the attention.

I don't care how any of you practice religion, and I appreciate it when believers just let me believe in not believing.

I like your use of the word "convinced". You did mean forced, right? It is documented that once the Catholicism was established that Pagans were to be assimilated or removed.

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-16-2013, 04:52 PM
I was taught that the Easter Bunny, Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, and Jesus were real when I was young. I stopped believing in the first three when I was around 10/11, and I stopped believing in religion around 19 years of age. So, if my son had been taught about both Santa and Jesus, I would expect him to start asking logical questions about faith. It's healthy for his mind to question the powers that be. With that being said, I wouldn't try to influence him towards atheism, but I would give him honest, straightforward, scientific answers.

In my opinion, the idea of a higher being comes from mankind's fascination with what happens to us when we die. The Egyptians believed in numerous gods, and they were convinced they were right. That was all changed into a single entity, and then everybody was convinced that was right. As humans continue to evolve and get smarter, religion will eventually disappear. Man simply cannot accept that you don't know what happens to you when you die, until you die.

The Bible was written by men, for men. Corrupt men took control of it, and now you have billion dollar churches, the Vatican, the Mormon HQ in Utah, and people like Falwell, Robertson, Farrakhan, Muslim extremists, Christian fundamentalists, etc. The small minority of each (believers and non-believers alike) have taken everyone's beliefs hostage, and the crazies seem to be the only ones that get the attention.

I don't care how any of you practice religion, and I appreciate it when believers just let me believe in not believing.So do monkeys believe in God? If you say its because of our ignorance and stupidity that leads us to beleive in a God, then how can we be born atheist?

DocBones
12-16-2013, 05:04 PM
With the occurence of religions forcing their beliefs on others, a lot (I am by no means saying 'all') Muslims are into taking down that Great White Satan (USA), because that place is NOT a Muslim mullah run country.

Over here, people can argue their points of view on atheism, Christianity, Muslim, Santa Claus beliefs without getting beheaded for expounding upon our beliefs. Thank God/Darwin/Santa for that!

sandsjames
12-16-2013, 05:37 PM
Knowing the difference between Santa and Christ, as a Christian, isn't really a dilemma. As a matter of fact, I'd say most kids figure it out on there own between 8-10 years old. When I realized Santa wasn't real, I didn't even associate it with the possibility of my religion being challenged.

As far as Atheists celebrating Christmas and making having their kids believe in Santa, there is no issue with that, especially since Santa has nothing to do with Christianity any more than the Easter Bunny does. I'm not sure why there would even be an issue with it.

Calmo70
12-16-2013, 07:31 PM
My kids are a lot older now (both in the 30's). My wife was catholic when we married - I was raised Southern Baptist. Kids were basically raised as catholic. Now - my daughter is pretty much a atheiest/humanist, my son is in seminary to become a preacher with the Southern Baptists - and my wife is now Assembly of God. Figure all of that out as I am basically an agnostics (I believe something is out there - not necessarilary a "God" - but something????). I got turned off from religion because of the "all or nothing" rules. Christians - if you don't believe in Jesus - you're condemned to hell. Muslims - don't believe in Allah - you're an infidel. Jew - God's Chosen People???, Buddhists/Hindus - heck if I know. Bottom line - I believe if there is a "heaven" - there is got to be more than one way to get there.

BTW - both of my kids were raised with Santa, Jesus, et al. They seemed to have turned out OK.

AFcynic
12-16-2013, 08:06 PM
So do monkeys believe in God? If you say its because of our ignorance and stupidity that leads us to beleive in a God, then how can we be born atheist?

Unfortunately, I have not been appointed by our primate friends to speak on their behalf, so I don't want to speak for that community. However, if I had to guess, I would say that monkeys might not believe in God. Again, that's pure conjecture on my part.

I never said ignorance and stupidity led people to believe in a God. I'm not really sure where you got that from. I will always argue that people are born into this world as atheists. You are taught religion by your parents/guardians, or other influences while you are growing up. Religion isn't something you genetically inherit from your parents. People learn it by going to church/Sunday school/parochial school. My son has been to church once in his life, and my daughter has never been to church. My daughter has no idea what religion is, and that's because we haven't introduced it to her yet.

I'm sure I'm coming off as a condescending prick, and I'm ok with that.

360BHR
12-16-2013, 08:19 PM
So, we all know the out spoken Atheist are veomently against Christmas having anything to do with Christ or Christians. But do they tell their kids their is a santa? What is the difference between having their kids believe in Santa at Christmas and letting their kids believe in Christ? Since they want to make it a public display against Christ, would they be ok with someone telling their kid there is no Santa?

http://pix11.com/2013/12/09/atheist-billboard-in-times-square-deletes-christ-from-christmas/

Best answer I heard was from last week's episode of Tim Allen's show "Last Man Standing", when his son-in-law said he didn't want to lie to his kid about Santa: "It isn't a lie, it's fantasy. Just like "If you like your healthcare plan, you can keep it."

garhkal
12-16-2013, 09:23 PM
Great topic!

I am an athiest, and my wife is slowly becoming one after years of not practicing any kind of religion. We've raised our kids in a non-religious environment, but we celebrate the holidays with the tree, gift giving, friends, family, and of course - booze. I know it's contradictory, but who cares?

While it may be contradictory about it (some may even say hypocritical), at least you are "Owning it"..
I know some who feel religion should be out of the window in all things, holidays especially, but get peeved off all to heck when they don't get gifts from their friends and co-workers on those holidays cause the others do it cause OF the religious aspect.



I don't care how any of you practice religion, and I appreciate it when believers just let me believe in not believing.

I feel the same. BUT i do tend to find more athiests wanting to push their "Beliefs" down others throats than i seem to find religious nuts pushing their beliefs.. Maybe i have not experienced it as bad as others have, i don't know..


My kids are a lot older now (both in the 30's). My wife was catholic when we married - I was raised Southern Baptist. Kids were basically raised as catholic. Now - my daughter is pretty much a atheiest/humanist, my son is in seminary to become a preacher with the Southern Baptists - and my wife is now Assembly of God. Figure all of that out as I am basically an agnostics (I believe something is out there - not necessarilary a "God" - but something????). I got turned off from religion because of the "all or nothing" rules. Christians - if you don't believe in Jesus - you're condemned to hell. Muslims - don't believe in Allah - you're an infidel. Jew - God's Chosen People???, Buddhists/Hindus - heck if I know. Bottom line - I believe if there is a "heaven" - there is got to be more than one way to get there.

I feel the same way. There MAY or may not be something out there that 'is god' (or gods, whom knows) but that it is GOD (as most of the common religions feel) is not how i see it.

kool-aid
12-16-2013, 10:31 PM
I will always argue that people are born into this world as atheists.

If that were true, why is there an innate desire in most humans to believe in something more than life short life we live, unless you are in the 3 % declared atheist or 15% (including the atheists) of undecided people?

USN - Retired
12-16-2013, 11:09 PM
I am living proof that God does indeed protect fools and idiots.

Cookie Monster
12-17-2013, 12:27 AM
Not believing in something isn't the same thing as disbelieving in something. Atheism is the absence of belief for all gods--not necessarily the same as disbelieving in deities. We're all born without a belief in Godzilla, right?

Capt Alfredo
12-17-2013, 02:14 AM
If that were true, why is there an innate desire in most humans to believe in something more than life short life we live, unless you are in the 3 % declared atheist or 15% (including the atheists) of undecided people?

Wishful thinking.

Greg
12-17-2013, 02:39 AM
Wishful thinking.

Hopefull...

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-17-2013, 12:24 PM
Why is there only one, comendable, Atheist replying here? What happened to all the rest who put down Christians and Jews (never muslims)?

imnohero
12-17-2013, 01:13 PM
Why is there only one, comendable, Atheist replying here? What happened to all the rest who put down Christians and Jews (never muslims)?

Probably because santa has little to nothing to do with religion. Also probably because they realize you are trolling.

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-17-2013, 03:38 PM
Probably because santa has little to nothing to do with religion. Also probably because they realize you are trolling.

As I have been informed many times, Santa comes from Peagan, Viking, and Christian religions. Its not trolling, its a discussion. Have I been rude to AFCynic?

imnohero
12-17-2013, 04:03 PM
Trolling - posting with the intent to provoke an emotional response

You might not have intended it that way, but if I read it that way, others did as well.

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-17-2013, 04:25 PM
Trolling - posting with the intent to provoke an emotional response

You might not have intended it that way, but if I read it that way, others did as well.

So because you guys allowed yourself to be emotionally disturbed by the post, I am trolling? AFCynic seemed to have no problem responding to the question. He was very candid about his response, and I respect him for it. But then again, I dont see him on here posting anti-Christian rhetoric as others seem to have no problem with.