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AJBIGJ
12-11-2013, 12:48 PM
Or is it?

What simple locational information can discover through extrapolation:
https://www.aclu.org/meet-jack-or-what-government-could-do-all-location-data

Thank goodness I'm not a terrorist and have nothing to hide?

Bunch
12-11-2013, 01:06 PM
How powerful the NSA must be that not even a President who ran on gutting the work of this agency hasn't been able to even stop the growth of the activities it engages on?

AJBIGJ
12-11-2013, 01:15 PM
How powerful the NSA must be that not even a President who ran on gutting the work of this agency hasn't been able to even stop the growth of the activities it engages on?

That does bring a good question to mind, indeed he did run on such a platform, certainly in 2008. While I personally don't recall similar rhetoric in 2012, I wonder if he has changed his mind on the subject, paid it lip service to score political points (not unique among politicians) or if the agency is indeed too powerful for even the Commander in Chief of the Executive Branch of government to contain one of its executive agencies. Has our Executive Branch of the government grown so disproportionately bloated and out of control that the brain has lost its ability to control the movements of the fingers?

Bunch
12-11-2013, 01:44 PM
That does bring a good question to mind, indeed he did run on such a platform, certainly in 2008. While I personally don't recall similar rhetoric in 2012, I wonder if he has changed his mind on the subject, paid it lip service to score political points (not unique among politicians) or if the agency is indeed too powerful for even the Commander in Chief of the Executive Branch of government to contain one of its executive agencies. Has our Executive Branch of the government grown so disproportionately bloated and out of control that the brain has lost its ability to control the movements of the fingers?

I don't think he was paying lip service. As a senator he was very vocal against the Patriot Act and the whole idea of spying programs that could be used to invade the privacy of american citizens. I really think that this agency influence have become so broad and far reaching that its basically untouchable. It would take an public embarassment of gigantic proportions to wrestle some power away from it. If the metadata, Snowden or Merkle scandal didnt even made them flinch I don't know what will.

AJBIGJ
12-11-2013, 03:00 PM
I don't think he was paying lip service. As a senator he was very vocal against the Patriot Act and the whole idea of spying programs that could be used to invade the privacy of american citizens. I really think that this agency influence have become so broad and far reaching that its basically untouchable. It would take an public embarassment of gigantic proportions to wrestle some power away from it. If the metadata, Snowden or Merkle scandal didnt even made them flinch I don't know what will.

That's more than a bit scary to me (Orwellian even if it is indeed the case). If true, I'm not sure if it is the only executive entity that holds the distinction. It seems like the vast majority of them are starting to run amok!

Stalwart
12-11-2013, 03:21 PM
As a senator he was very vocal against the Patriot Act and the whole idea of spying programs that could be used to invade the privacy of american citizens.

Being a Senator is different than being the President. As a Senator he was on the Homeland Security Committee so he (probably via a staffer) got some intelligence, but not as if he had been on the SSCI. As President, he is the head of the Executive Branch and Commander in Chief of the military. Very few legislators see the same type of data the President does and it could be that now he has a better understanding of what SIGINT / NSA does than he did before. Granted, just getting a more enlightened view of what something does not / should not mean someone will alter their principles.


If the metadata, Snowden or Merkle scandal didnt even made them flinch I don't know what will.

There have been shake-ups within NSA and the Service Cryptologic Elements. At the same time, the metadata issue was already reviewed prior to implementation by the FISA courts, so it was legal (maybe not gentlemanly ... but legal), and the issue with Merkle's phone ... that was for the cameras, you can rest assured that foreign (to include friendly) intelligence agencies are also looking at our government's leader's phones as well.

MitchellJD1969
12-11-2013, 06:42 PM
Give it some time or if not already (considering the IRS scandal)....NSA stuff will be used against domestic political opponents....given to the politicians by ideological true believers.

Bunch
12-11-2013, 06:44 PM
Give it some time or if not already (considering the IRS scandal)....NSA stuff will be used against domestic political opponents....given to the politicians by ideological true believers.

And that is what I think its going to come down to. Its going to take an "earth shaking" scandal to get this under control.

garhkal
12-11-2013, 09:53 PM
As we have seen already though, with scandals after scandals, no one in that neck of the woods seems to lose their jobs.. so i doubt the NSA is worrying.

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-12-2013, 03:15 AM
I don't think he was paying lip service. As a senator he was very vocal against the Patriot Act and the whole idea of spying programs that could be used to invade the privacy of american citizens. I really think that this agency influence have become so broad and far reaching that its basically untouchable. It would take an public embarassment of gigantic proportions to wrestle some power away from it. If the metadata, Snowden or Merkle scandal didnt even made them flinch I don't know what will.

So you think he was sincere about wanting to end the NSA, but they may of had something on him to force him to give more power and freedom? Maybe dems and GOP are alike in more ways than you all may think and what they promise in an election cycle really doesn't mean squat after they win the seat? Just like when Obama said he was going to close GITMO. Or when he said "if you like your plan...". Maybe Americans just need to wake up an see that both sides are of the same coin. If the NSA, CIA, FBI etc are so powerful, why would they have waited for the (non)PATRIOT act to be passed before doing all of this? If they were that powerful, do you really think they didn't know about the 9/11 before it was going to happen? I don't really believe they became this entrench and powerful in the past decade.

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-12-2013, 03:19 AM
Being a Senator is different than being the President. As a Senator he was on the Homeland Security Committee so he (probably via a staffer) got some intelligence, but not as if he had been on the SSCI. As President, he is the head of the Executive Branch and Commander in Chief of the military. Very few legislators see the same type of data the President does and it could be that now he has a better understanding of what SIGINT / NSA does than he did before. Granted, just getting a more enlightened view of what something does not / should not mean someone will alter their principles. It really is a testament to those that run on a topic and then actually follow through with their principles. Not many people have done such a thing.

There have been shake-ups within NSA and the Service Cryptologic Elements. At the same time, the metadata issue was already reviewed prior to implementation by the FISA courts, so it was legal (maybe not gentlemanly ... but legal), and the issue with Merkle's phone ... that was for the cameras, you can rest assured that foreign (to include friendly) intelligence agencies are also looking at our government's leader's phones as well.
Shoot, Israel has done this to us for decades now. Thats why they didn't understand the outrage against the US for being caught.

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-12-2013, 03:21 AM
And that is what I think its going to come down to. Its going to take an "earth shaking" scandal to get this under control.

Like what? Will they actually produce the evidence that they killed JFK, or possibly kill a future president?