PDA

View Full Version : College student shot by cops 6 times. Overkill or proper proceedure



garhkal
12-09-2013, 07:43 PM
Yet another school shooting hits the news channels, but this time it was a single student shot by cops, after supposedly wrestling with one cop, taking his night stick and attacking the cop.
Also supposedly due to the cold, the 'camera' cop cars have to record stuff like this, had 'come unglued' just the day before (which begs the question of why was this cop car allowed out afterwards with a non functional security camera).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2519842/Valedictorian-honors-student-shot-dead-college-campus-cop-routine-traffic-stop.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/texas-college-student-shot-and-killed-by-campus-police-officer-2013-12

So what's everyone's thoughts. Good kill, or overkill?

AJBIGJ
12-09-2013, 08:00 PM
I'd say insufficient information presented to determine, I'd have to wait to see what the investigation turns up to even speculate.

Gonzo432
12-10-2013, 02:06 AM
Agreed, too many details missing. Here's what we know:

It was 0230, nothing good happens at 0230.
If you assault a police officer at 0230, it won't end well. Please note the words "if you".
Nightstick? That could explain the 6 shots, the cop was probably carrying a revolver. Not that there's anything wrong with that, I'm looking at a GP100 but I'm not a cop.

sandsjames
12-10-2013, 12:31 PM
Not sure if 6 shots is overkill or not...did the first 5 stop him? Did the cop know if the first 5 stopped him. If the cop had the ability to shoot him once in the leg and stop him then, yes, it's overkill. If the cop had the alleged attacker at close range and unloaded the weapon with 6 rapid shots then maybe it's not. We all know how inaccurate pistols are. 6 quick shots as a way to ensure the guy stops is a good kill (again, I don't really know ANY of the details). If the cop shot him, walked up to him, and fired again, then it's not good.

js7799
12-10-2013, 01:44 PM
Should've escaped in his bullet-proof car.

Smeghead
12-10-2013, 02:43 PM
Yay San Antonio, we're always in the news. Since moving here I've seen a ton of these school/college cops. I know absolutely nothing them. Anyone familiar with what authority they have? Jurisdiction etc? Seems a little off to me that a campus cop can shoot someone off campus the guy's apartment complex.

CORNELIUSSEON
12-10-2013, 02:50 PM
Yet another school shooting hits the news channels, but this time it was a single student shot by cops, after supposedly wrestling with one cop, taking his night stick and attacking the cop.
Also supposedly due to the cold, the 'camera' cop cars have to record stuff like this, had 'come unglued' just the day before (which begs the question of why was this cop car allowed out afterwards with a non functional security camera).

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2519842/Valedictorian-honors-student-shot-dead-college-campus-cop-routine-traffic-stop.html

http://www.businessinsider.com/texas-college-student-shot-and-killed-by-campus-police-officer-2013-12

So what's everyone's thoughts. Good kill, or overkill?

There's an old saying that goes: "Never bring a knife to a gun fight." In this case, it means that the cops surely had other means to subdue him without taking his life, if for no other reason than we will never know both sides of the story as to what started the confrontation.

Bunch
12-10-2013, 04:25 PM
"To Serve and Protect" used to mean the community, many cops nowaday have the instict of "To Serve and Protect" ourselves.

One thing it seems for sure by now is that this kid was no troublemaker. I've been reading news report after news report, family, friends and/or neighbors no one has a bad thing to say about him.

Smeghead
12-10-2013, 05:45 PM
"To Serve and Protect" used to mean the community, many cops nowaday have the instict of "To Serve and Protect" ourselves.

There is no community involvement nowadays. Cops used to walk beats and get to know the people in the area they SERVED. Now their fat assess spend their days in their cars.

garhkal
12-10-2013, 06:29 PM
There's an old saying that goes: "Never bring a knife to a gun fight." In this case, it means that the cops surely had other means to subdue him without taking his life, if for no other reason than we will never know both sides of the story as to what started the confrontation.

Its also the issue of the reported fallen camera cause of the glue getting too cold to stick to the dash (or window) thing that makes me question it. Had the officer known his camera was still rolling, maybe he would NOT have shot 6 times. OR maybe it might have exonerated him.

imnohero
12-11-2013, 01:44 AM
So, the latest update seems to be here at CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/10/justice/texas-campus-officer-shooting/


The student was drunk, speeding, and swerving. When pulled over, he got out of the car, didn't comply with directions, resisted arrest, fought with the officer, and was eventually shot. From the time he was pulled over it was 5 minutes until the shots. The dash cam was pointed the wrong way, but got audio of the entire incident.

Yea, the cop reported his location wrong. But it's starting to look like some drunken idiot got to fightin' with a cop and got shot for his trouble. I'm starting to have a less sympathy for the kid.

Bunch
12-11-2013, 03:19 AM
So, the latest update seems to be here at CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2013/12/10/justice/texas-campus-officer-shooting/


The student was drunk, speeding, and swerving. When pulled over, he got out of the car, didn't comply with directions, resisted arrest, fought with the officer, and was eventually shot. From the time he was pulled over it was 5 minutes until the shots. The dash cam was pointed the wrong way, but got audio of the entire incident.

Yea, the cop reported his location wrong. But it's starting to look like some drunken idiot got to fightin' with a cop and got shot for his trouble. I'm starting to have a less sympathy for the kid.

I will like to know how much time this police officer had in the force. Seems to me that he made a few basic mistakes that resulted in the situation ending up like it did.

imnohero
12-11-2013, 03:33 AM
yes, it does seem like he made some errors, the most critical of which was mis-identifying his location. He's been in law enforcement for several years but with multiple positions (reference the dailymail UK article). He will probably lose his job by the time it's over.

dailymail article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2521152/Robert-Cameron-Redus-stole-police-officers-baton-started-attacking-say-police.html

Bunch
12-11-2013, 03:46 AM
yes, it does seem like he made some errors, the most critical of which was mis-identifying his location. He's been in law enforcement for several years but with multiple positions (reference the dailymail UK article). He will probably lose his job by the time it's over.

dailymail article: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2521152/Robert-Cameron-Redus-stole-police-officers-baton-started-attacking-say-police.html

I think the location error was key but when a police officer loses control of a suspect his plaing in custody several things have to go wrong. I'm no expert at detaining procedures but did took a couple of classes with SF units for augmetee duty and TCN escort and from that the most I remember was them talking about the importance of maintaining control of the situation, maintaining control of your suspect and not placing yourself in a position in which you get killed and/or the suspect gets killed. Maybe someone with more than my lame experience can chime in on this.

imported_AFKILO7
12-11-2013, 04:08 AM
I have been watching the local news here concerning this story. The student was intoxicated and from what I've seen so far got more than he bargained for. Some people ask if the LEO overreacted. I say no. Going off of the AUOF in the Air Force once he got ahold of my baton he would've been at gunpoint and given two chances to drop it. After that if he moved towards me to strike me with the baton I'm putting him down. If more comes out in the investigation I may change my mind, which is possible because the investigation isn't over. The article I quoted can be found here: http://www.kens5.com/home/AHPD-UIW-student-shot-five-times-at-close-range-during-struggle--235133211.html

"Officer Carter instructed Redus 14 times to place his hands behind his back, informed him three times he was under arrest and to stop resisting 56 times," Alamo Heights Chief Richard Pruitt said.

The student was then shot five times with a .40 caliber handgun, including in the chest and the eye, according to AHPD.

"The police department's statements are in direct contrast with a university-issued statement which claims the police truck's dash cam had fallen off the evening before the incident.

The university claims the student and the officer got in a struggle over the steel baton the officer was carrying when the officer produced his firearm before knocking the baton from Redus. The student continued to resist arrest when Cpl. Carter fired shots, according to a university statement.

imnohero
12-11-2013, 04:26 AM
Well, we will see when the investigation is over. Given the press coverage, I doubt it will be long.

Gonzo432
12-11-2013, 02:35 PM
I have been watching the local news here concerning this story. The student was intoxicated and from what I've seen so far got more than he bargained for. Some people ask if the LEO overreacted. I say no. Going off of the AUOF in the Air Force once he got ahold of my baton he would've been at gunpoint and given two chances to drop it. After that if he moved towards me to strike me with the baton I'm putting him down. If more comes out in the investigation I may change my mind, which is possible because the investigation isn't over. The article I quoted can be found here: http://www.kens5.com/home/AHPD-UIW-student-shot-five-times-at-close-range-during-struggle--235133211.html

"Officer Carter instructed Redus 14 times to place his hands behind his back, informed him three times he was under arrest and to stop resisting 56 times," Alamo Heights Chief Richard Pruitt said.

The student was then shot five times with a .40 caliber handgun, including in the chest and the eye, according to AHPD.

"The police department's statements are in direct contrast with a university-issued statement which claims the police truck's dash cam had fallen off the evening before the incident.

The university claims the student and the officer got in a struggle over the steel baton the officer was carrying when the officer produced his firearm before knocking the baton from Redus. The student continued to resist arrest when Cpl. Carter fired shots, according to a university statement.

A patrol officer I know had an incident with the same caliber and similar results. Huge sasquatch sized guy under the influence of alcohol and cocaine beat the hell out of his girlfriend. The guy had a gun, started to raise it, it went to deadly force. It took 5 shots from a .40 S&W before he went down. Justified shooting, the girlfriend who was beaten up? Later sued the officer.

imported_AFKILO7
12-12-2013, 04:49 AM
A patrol officer I know had an incident with the same caliber and similar results. Huge sasquatch sized guy under the influence of alcohol and cocaine beat the hell out of his girlfriend. The guy had a gun, started to raise it, it went to deadly force. It took 5 shots from a .40 S&W before he went down. Justified shooting, the girlfriend who was beaten up? Later sued the officer.

I'm not surprised. The psychology of abused spouses confuses me.

garhkal
12-12-2013, 06:56 PM
A patrol officer I know had an incident with the same caliber and similar results. Huge sasquatch sized guy under the influence of alcohol and cocaine beat the hell out of his girlfriend. The guy had a gun, started to raise it, it went to deadly force. It took 5 shots from a .40 S&W before he went down. Justified shooting, the girlfriend who was beaten up? Later sued the officer.

What happened to that suit, do you know?

Gonzo432
12-13-2013, 02:52 AM
What happened to that suit, do you know?

It was thrown out, but still BS to a level rarely seen. I suspect her lawyer advertised on the side of buses.

garhkal
12-13-2013, 07:40 PM
Most likely. Personally i feel those types of suits should not only get kicked out, but the person sued, should immediately counter sue!