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sandsjames
12-06-2013, 12:37 PM
A great man who will be missed. His legacy and impact will be lasting.

If there is one thing that made him great, it's that he fought for something, and not against something. We can all benefit from his words.

AJBIGJ
12-06-2013, 12:40 PM
Especially those of forgiveness, that if anything was a supernatural thing that can be attributed to this great man.

TJMAC77SP
12-06-2013, 06:56 PM
The thing that simply amazed me about Mandela was the wisdom of realizing that he had to be inclusive in the new South Africa. He had seen the absolute disasters some former white-dominated countries in Africa had become when power was handed over and he was determined that would not happen to South Africa. Every time I saw a clip of him there was this quiet grace which he exuded. Amazing really.

garhkal
12-06-2013, 07:10 PM
Though we knew it was coming, what with reports over the past year of his failing health, it still is a shock that he is now officially dead..

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
12-07-2013, 04:12 PM
Agree with the above, except I don't agree with flying the US flag at half-mast for a non-US citizen.

RetC141BFCC
12-07-2013, 04:50 PM
I hate to say it but I agree with Flaps on flying the flag at half mast. I remember when NJ did it for a drug user who died of a overdose. That pissed me off

garhkal
12-07-2013, 06:33 PM
IIRc of the laws for flying the flag, its supposed to be done for head of state for foreign countries. Since Mandela Was the president of South Africa, that is why they are doing it.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
12-08-2013, 12:04 AM
IIRc of the laws for flying the flag, its supposed to be done for head of state for foreign countries. Since Mandela Was the president of South Africa, that is why they are doing it.

Did they do it for Margaret Thatcher? I don't remember.

Rainmaker
12-09-2013, 03:12 AM
Agree with the above, except I don't agree with flying the US flag at half-mast for a non-US citizen.

US Flags at half-staff for a communist - do some objective research away from the Liberal Media Lovefest. SA went from one of the most prosperous countries on the planet. to a 3rd world shithole with the highest rates of rape and one of the top rates of murder, kidnapping and AIDS. Thirty years ago South Africa had a space program. guess what they have today? Rainmaker Can't tell you cause then he'd get banned for "hate speech"

imnohero
12-09-2013, 05:03 AM
CIA factbook on south africa puts them 26th largest world economy. In the upper quartile of all economies. Seems pretty prosperous to me.

94% literacy rate, 99% of urban populations have access to clean water, average years of education is 13, they rank 42nd for landlines, 19th for cell phones, 54th in internet users, 11th 14th and 18th for airports, rail and roadways. They have universal suffrage at 18, a functioning court system, functioning Republic governance.

Yes, they have problems with crime, and HIV infection. But I wouldn't call it a s-hole. Especially given that there a lot of worse places for murder and rape...the UN crime stats tell me that the US Virgin Islands has a higher murder rate than SA. Gonna have to disagree with you Rainmaker, nomsayin'?

TJMAC77SP
12-09-2013, 12:57 PM
US Flags at half-staff for a communist - do some objective research away from the Liberal Media Lovefest. SA went from one of the most prosperous countries on the planet. to a 3rd world shithole with the highest rates of rape and one of the top rates of murder, kidnapping and AIDS. Thirty years ago South Africa had a space program. guess what they have today? Rainmaker Can't tell you cause then he'd get banned for "hate speech"

Rain.........as INH says it isn't quite as bad as you portray. While the SA Communist Party is part of the ruling alliance I am not sure that SA qualifies the country as communist.

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-09-2013, 01:46 PM
I like Mandela. Even after the US put strict sanctions that hurt the poor the most, he still told the US to mind its own business after he was released from jail.

Smeghead
12-09-2013, 01:49 PM
Did they do it for Margaret Thatcher? I don't remember.

No it wasn't done for Thatcher. Only two times it's been ordered before were for Winston Churchill and Pope John Paul II. Illustrious company he's been put among.

AJBIGJ
12-09-2013, 02:05 PM
Interestingly enough, while Mandela did hold some socialist views the level of statism he fought against was far worse.

Background on the economic state under Apartheid:
http://www.lewrockwell.com/2013/12/thomas-dilorenzo/south-african-apartheid/

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-09-2013, 02:25 PM
At least Obama gets a pre-vacation vacation.

Smeghead
12-09-2013, 04:32 PM
A great man who will be missed. His legacy and impact will be lasting.

If there is one thing that made him great, it's that he fought for something, and not against something. We can all benefit from his words.

Even though he reportedly signed off on the Church Street bombing?

imported_WILDJOKER5
12-09-2013, 05:04 PM
Even though he reportedly signed off on the Church Street bombing?

Shhhhh...Only the crazy racist websites still remember that. No one wants to talk about the fleeing whites out of SA to avoid being killed no a days.

sandsjames
12-09-2013, 11:09 PM
Even though he reportedly signed off on the Church Street bombing?

The good he did far, far, far outweighs any bad. He did more for humanity, peace, and freedom in the last 40 years than as one person than almost everyone else combined.

sandsjames
12-09-2013, 11:11 PM
Shhhhh...Only the crazy racist websites still remember that. No one wants to talk about the fleeing whites out of SA to avoid being killed no a days.

You want to talk about it...obviously...though it doesn't surprise me that you would rather discuss the plight of the SA whites than the advancement, related directly to Mandela, of the entire nation of SA.

TJMAC77SP
12-10-2013, 01:20 PM
No it wasn't done for Thatcher. Only two times it's been ordered before were for Winston Churchill and Pope John Paul II. Illustrious company he's been put among.

It has been done a few times for foreign heads of state. Sadat and Rabin to name a couple.

CORNELIUSSEON
12-10-2013, 01:43 PM
US Flags at half-staff for a communist - do some objective research away from the Liberal Media Lovefest. SA went from one of the most prosperous countries on the planet. to a 3rd world shithole with the highest rates of rape and one of the top rates of murder, kidnapping and AIDS. Thirty years ago South Africa had a space program. guess what they have today? Rainmaker Can't tell you cause then he'd get banned for "hate speech"

"Communist" these days is an empty epithet. All of the countries that have embraced Communism have devolved to good old fashioned Despotism. South Africa never had the economy necessary to support such an expensive "hobby" as a Space Program. They really got involved just so they could wear it on their sleeve that they were part of the First World of nations. Never mind that - at the same time - more than 50% of their population was not allowed to participate.

socal1200r
12-10-2013, 05:40 PM
Mandela's influence on my life? Zero, zilch, nada, squat. From him to go from a terrorist to a near-saint is quite the accomplishment, lol! And yes, I know he won a Nobel Peace Prize, but so did Nobama, so that's not saying much. And I totally agree with that sheriff in SC who refused to fly his flag at half-staff for Mandela, good on ya for standing your ground, even when this ultra-liberal knucklehead president says to do otherwise.

Bunch
12-10-2013, 05:52 PM
Mandela's influence on my life? Zero, zilch, nada, squat. From him to go from a terrorist to a near-saint is quite the accomplishment, lol! And yes, I know he won a Nobel Peace Prize, but so did Nobama, so that's not saying much. And I totally agree with that sheriff in SC who refused to fly his flag at half-staff for Mandela, good on ya for standing your ground, even when this ultra-liberal knucklehead president says to do otherwise.

Very insightful words...the right never ceases to amaze me.

Rainmaker
12-10-2013, 06:00 PM
The good he did far, far, far outweighs any bad. He did more for humanity, peace, and freedom in the last 40 years than as one person than almost everyone else combined.

Got it. So the end justifies the means. That's the Secular Humanist's (READ Globalist Luciferian Enlightenment's) world view. The 70,000 Afrikaner and Boers (out of 2 million) that have been Brutally murdered are a just small price to pay for the Utopian ideal. They were our Allies during the cold war. But, after we didn't need them anymore we threw them to the wolves. and the resource rape of SA continues.

imnohero
12-10-2013, 06:08 PM
As to "the end justifies the means"...that is exactly what the Imperial Cold Warriors said about all the brutal dictatorships they supported. That sword cuts both ways, including in South Africa.

and if we are comparing death tolls after the fall of regimes we supported during the Cold War... 70,000 is bush-league.

Rusty Jones
12-10-2013, 06:15 PM
You want to talk about it...obviously...though it doesn't surprise me that you would rather discuss the plight of the SA whites than the advancement, related directly to Mandela, of the entire nation of SA.

So you're finally able to see through his shit too?


From him to go from a terrorist to a near-saint is quite the accomplishment, lol!

Terrorist? In his own land against the very people who invaded it, occupied it, and oppressed him and his people?

socal1200r
12-10-2013, 06:19 PM
Terrorist? In his own land against the very people who invaded it, occupied it, and oppressed him and his people?

Yeah, you know, like Timothy McVeigh, The Unabomber, the brothers responsible for the Boston Marathon Bombing, etc. Same cut of cloth...

Rusty Jones
12-10-2013, 06:21 PM
Yeah, you know, like Timothy McVeigh, The Unabomber, the brothers responsible for the Boston Marathon Bombing, etc. Same cut of cloth...

No, he's cut from the same cloth as Native American leaders. By the way, you're a fucking racist.

Bunch
12-10-2013, 06:22 PM
Got it. So the end justifies the means. That's the Secular Humanist's (READ Globalist Luciferian Enlightenment's) world view. The 70,000 Afrikaner and Boers (out of 2 million) that have been Brutally murdered are a just small price to pay for the Utopian ideal. They were our Allies during the cold war. But, after we didn't need them anymore we threw them to the wolves. and the resource rape of SA continues.

If we are playing this silly "end justifies the means" game then europeans are at fault, they were the ones who invaded, stole and massacred in lands that didn't belong to them in the first place.

socal1200r
12-10-2013, 06:35 PM
No, he's cut from the same cloth as Native American leaders. By the way, you're a fucking racist.

My, my, my, did I get your "freedom-loving" ultra-liberal panties all twisted up?! The point is, Mandela means nothing outside of South Africa. He didn't impact my life one bit, and he didn't impact anyone else who pretty much lived outside of South Africa. Yet the liberal media is all fainting over his death, like a living saint died or something. They need to start at the beginning, from his guerilla warfare days as a terrorist, before they enshrine him at the altar of the likes of Ghandi.

Rusty Jones
12-10-2013, 06:44 PM
My, my, my, did I get your "freedom-loving" ultra-liberal panties all twisted up?! The point is, Mandela means nothing outside of South Africa. He didn't impact my life one bit, and he didn't impact anyone else who pretty much lived outside of South Africa. Yet the liberal media is all fainting over his death, like a living saint died or something. They need to start at the beginning, from his guerilla warfare days as a terrorist, before they enshrine him at the altar of the likes of Ghandi.

Were Native Americans terrorists? How can anyone be wrong for fighting against their oppressors, on their own land?

So you feel he didn't impact you. Why not just skip this thread, and post on one of the thousands of others? I'll tell you why: you're seizing an opportunity to disparage this man. And, for some reason, you have strong opinions about him. Even though you claim he had no impact outside of SA.

By the way, if you only want to discuss with people who agree with you; you can take your bullshit to Stormfront.

Bunch
12-10-2013, 06:47 PM
My, my, my, did I get your "freedom-loving" ultra-liberal panties all twisted up?! The point is, Mandela means nothing outside of South Africa. He didn't impact my life one bit, and he didn't impact anyone else who pretty much lived outside of South Africa. Yet the liberal media is all fainting over his death, like a living saint died or something. They need to start at the beginning, from his guerilla warfare days as a terrorist, before they enshrine him at the altar of the likes of Ghandi.

Ok you have stated quite elegantly that Mandela has done nothing for you. We get it. But you can only speak for yourself can you?

socal1200r
12-10-2013, 06:49 PM
I'm not disparaging him, I just don't think he's all that the liberal media is making him out to be. I'm not drinking the Mandella Kool Aid, and I know there are lots of others who aren't either, to include that sheriff down in SC. To some he's a saint, to others a terrorist, two sides to that coin...

Bunch
12-10-2013, 06:50 PM
I'm not disparaging him, I just don't think he's all that the liberal media is making him out to be. I'm not drinking the Mandella Kool Aid, and I know there are lots of others who aren't either, to include that sheriff down in SC. To some he's a saint, to others a terrorist, two sides to that coin...

The sheriff didn't say anything disparaging about Mandela. You on the other hand have been doing that since you posted in this thread. BTW, you are a part of a very fringe minority that believes that Mandela was a terrorist.

Smeghead
12-10-2013, 06:52 PM
Were Native Americans terrorists? How can anyone be wrong for fighting against their oppressors, on their own land?

So you feel he didn't impact you. Why not just skip this thread, and post on one of the thousands of others? I'll tell you why: you're seizing an opportunity to disparage this man. And, for some reason, you have strong opinions about him. Even though you claim he had no impact outside of SA.

By the way, if you only want to discuss with people who agree with you; you can take your bullshit to Stormfront.

lmao, someone disagrees and they're racist. Get a grip.

Smeghead
12-10-2013, 06:53 PM
The sheriff didn't say anything disparaging about Mandela. You on the other hand have been doing that since you posted in this thread. BTW, you are a part of a very fringe minority that believes that Mandela was a terrorist.

How is it disparaging? A terrorist is just a freedom fighter who lost. Had the War of Independence turned out differently I gurantee the history books would present Washington et al in a different light. Just ask Guy Fawkes.

Rusty Jones
12-10-2013, 06:55 PM
lmao, someone disagrees and they're racist. Get a grip.

In this case, yep. And if you can't see it, so are you.

socal1200r
12-10-2013, 06:57 PM
The sheriff didn't say anything disparaging about Mandela. You on the other hand have been doing that since you posted in this thread. BTW, you are a part of a very fringe minority that believes that Mandela was a terrorist.

Ever hear of the story about the emperor with no clothes? You people must have thin skin, because I don't think I've disparaged the man. I'm sure he was the end-all be-all in South Africa. I just don't think he's the 8th wonder of the world, or a now-deceased living saint, or the last air-bender, etc. He was what he was, a guerilla fighter who was involved with numerous killings thru the ANC, was jailed for it, was given multiple opportunities to leave prison if he renounced his terrorist ways but refused, was released and eventually became President of SA, won a Noble Peace Price, etc. All well and good in SA, but of no value to me here in the USA. If that's disparaging the man, then guilty as charged, get over it...

Rainmaker
12-10-2013, 07:00 PM
As to "the end justifies the means"...that is exactly what the Imperial Cold Warriors said about all the brutal dictatorships they supported. That sword cuts both ways, including in South Africa.

and if we are comparing death tolls after the fall of regimes we supported during the Cold War... 70,000 is bush-league.

Rainmaker completely agree. However, 2 wrongs don't a right make. I guess it's ok. For ANC terrorists to pour boiling water down a toddler's throat. So, long as the toddler falls into the wrong demographic category. There's a reason we never hear the rest of the story (See ALgore net-worth).

The Common view presented by the leftist media that the Boers were colonial conquerors looting and exploiting the peaceful tribes is false. they were abandoned by the Dutch at Cape May and fled from the British Imperial empire after fighting them for centuries. Unlike us however, they lost and fled.

They went to a largely uninhabited area and carved a society out of nothing.

Of course Apartheid was the wrong choice. But, the history is more complicated than being presented and there was reasons they chose it. Debeers Mining still getting they cut. Do some research. Pay attention to what's happening. You never have to be afraid of the truth. NomSayin?

Bunch
12-10-2013, 07:01 PM
Your definition of terrorist is way off by any standard.

The point on socal is that he joined this conversation by looking to be disruptive, posting an emotionally charged comment that goes against the conventional thinking of what the majority agrees the life of Nelson Mandela will be remembered and then gets all riled up when he gets called on it.

Rusty Jones
12-10-2013, 07:02 PM
Ever hear of the story about the emperor with no clothes? You people must have thin skin, because I don't think I've disparaged the man. I'm sure he was the end-all be-all in South Africa. I just don't think he's the 8th wonder of the world, or a now-deceased living saint, or the last air-bender, etc. He was what he was, a guerilla fighter who was involved with numerous killings thru the ANC, was jailed for it, was given multiple opportunities to leave prison if he renounced his terrorist ways but refused, was released and eventually became President of SA, won a Noble Peace Price, etc. All well and good in SA, but of no value to me here in the USA. If that's disparaging the man, then guilty as charged, get over it...

Referring to him as a "terrorist" isn't disparaging? Is that what I'm reading?

Rainmaker
12-10-2013, 07:04 PM
lmao, someone disagrees and they're racist. Get a grip.

Happy Kwanza

socal1200r
12-10-2013, 07:07 PM
Your definition of terrorist is way off by any standard.

The point on socal is that he joined this conversation by looking to be disruptive, posting an emotionally charged comment that goes against the conventional thinking of what the majority agrees the life of Nelson Mandela will be remembered and then gets all riled up when he gets called on it.

Spoken like a true liberal...

Bunch
12-10-2013, 07:09 PM
Ever hear of the story about the emperor with no clothes? You people must have thin skin, because I don't think I've disparaged the man. I'm sure he was the end-all be-all in South Africa. I just don't think he's the 8th wonder of the world, or a now-deceased living saint, or the last air-bender, etc. He was what he was, a guerilla fighter who was involved with numerous killings thru the ANC, was jailed for it, was given multiple opportunities to leave prison if he renounced his terrorist ways but refused, was released and eventually became President of SA, won a Noble Peace Price, etc. All well and good in SA, but of no value to me here in the USA. If that's disparaging the man, then guilty as charged, get over it...

You are entitled to your opinion.

socal1200r
12-10-2013, 07:11 PM
Referring to him as a "terrorist" isn't disparaging? Is that what I'm reading?

Gosh I don't know, can you read? Let's face it, I'm comfortable calling him a terrorist, as was this country way back when, and you're not, to you he's a "freedom fighter". That's fine, I don't have a problem with that, but apparently you do.

Bunch
12-10-2013, 07:12 PM
Spoken like a true liberal...

I take "true liberal" over anything you have inside that head of yours any day.

socal1200r
12-10-2013, 07:14 PM
You are entitled to your opinion.

Finally, you see the light! I'm getting slammed because I'm not crying buckets that Mandela died, and for bringing up his ANC days. I just don't think he's all that Nobama, Bono, Clinton, and the other liberals are painting him to be. I'm entitled to my opinion, and if you don't agree, that's fine. But to get all this heartburn just because I have a different opinion of Mandela is truly comical.

Rusty Jones
12-10-2013, 07:16 PM
I take "true liberal" over anything you have inside that head of yours any day.

He needs to take his ass to Stormfront. They do nothing but bitch about liberals over there, too.

socal1200r
12-10-2013, 07:19 PM
He needs to take his ass to Stormfront. They do nothing but bitch about liberals over there, too.

LOL, this is truly comical...so it's okay for anyone to post a comment in this thread about Mandela, as along as they think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread? But woe is he who posts something like I did huh? Truly comical...

Bunch
12-10-2013, 07:20 PM
Finally, you see the light! I'm getting slammed because I'm not crying buckets that Mandela died, and for bringing up his ANC days. I just don't think he's all that Nobama, Bono, Clinton, and the other liberals are painting him to be. I'm entitled to my opinion, and if you don't agree, that's fine. But to get all this heartburn just because I have a different opinion of Mandela is truly comical.

The problem with you wasn't your opinion, go back to the first comments you made in this thread. That wasn't and opinion that was an emotionally charged misleading diatribe. You even mentioned the SC sheriff to try to validate your opinion when your opinion and the point the sheriff was making aren't even closely related.

BTW, opinions need no validation.

Smeghead
12-10-2013, 07:20 PM
In this case, yep. And if you can't see it, so are you.

Guess I must be one of those self loathing types then, like Dave Chapelle's black whiite supremist.

Rusty Jones
12-10-2013, 07:22 PM
LOL, this is truly comical...so it's okay for anyone to post a comment in this thread about Mandela, as along as they think he's the greatest thing since sliced bread? But woe is he who posts something like I did huh? Truly comical...

I'm going say it again: if he meant nothing to you, there are thousands of other threads to post on. No reason to fuck up a positive thread.

Bunch
12-10-2013, 07:26 PM
He needs to take his ass to Stormfront. They do nothing but bitch about liberals over there, too.

It just fascinates me why many of the people that share that mentality seek validation for their opinions.

Rainmaker
12-10-2013, 07:27 PM
I'm going say it again: if he meant nothing to you, there are thousands of other threads to post on. No reason to fuck up a positive thread.

Folks. this sums up the Liberal mindset. It's all feelings based subjective reality. What you know is true doesn't matter. What you feel is true is what matters. Ignorance is strenghth. Down is up. FORWARD!!

socal1200r
12-10-2013, 07:29 PM
The problem with you wasn't your opinion, go back to the first comments you made in this thread. That wasn't and opinion that was an emotionally charged misleading diatribe. You even mentioned the SC sheriff to try to validate your opinion when your opinion and the point the sheriff was making aren't even closely related. BTW, opinions need no validation.

Really, so the sheriff didn't lower the flag because Mandela isn't an American, and I'm saying Mandela isn't all that, so I guess in your world that's not closely related. Okay, whatever floats your boat...

Bunch
12-10-2013, 07:29 PM
Folks. this sums up the Liberal mindset. It's all feelings based subjective reality. What you know is true doesn't matter. What you feel is true is what matters. Ignorance is strenghth. Down is up. FORWARD!!

The inner workings of your mind are something to behold.

Rainmaker
12-10-2013, 07:31 PM
The inner workings of your mind are something to behold.

Bro, You don't know the half of it. Be glad you don't hear the voices from the inside! NomSayin?

Rusty Jones
12-10-2013, 07:33 PM
Folks. this sums up the Liberal mindset. It's all feelings based subjective reality. What you know is true doesn't matter. What you feel is true is what matters. Ignorance is strenghth. Down is up. FORWARD!!

So being conservative is all about negativity and combativeness, and calling it "truth." No surprise here.

socal1200r
12-10-2013, 07:33 PM
I'm going say it again: if he meant nothing to you, there are thousands of other threads to post on. No reason to fuck up a positive thread.

Again, ever hear the story about the emperor with no clothes? You liberals would be great for comic relief, if it weren't for the fact that the liberals are destroying our society from within, with the repeal of DADT, not defending DOMA, benefits for illegal immigrants, the list goes on and on. I guess you and someone like Mandela would get along great, with your ultruistic views of society, so you go right ahead and continue to worship at the altar of Mandela. Me, those rose-colored glasses are off and in the trash...

Bunch
12-10-2013, 07:36 PM
Really, so the sheriff didn't lower the flag because Mandela isn't an American, and I'm saying Mandela isn't all that, so I guess in your world that's not closely related. Okay, whatever floats your boat...

No. The link you were making about Mandela being a terrorist which was the point you made on your first post and the SC sheriff action not to place the flag at half staff kind of like making it seem the sheriff was taking a stand agains "terrorist" Mandela. You were seeking validation for the weak point you were trying to raise about Mandela being a terorrist.

Now if you present your opinion about Mandela being a terorrist then there is really nothing we can do about your opinion right?

Bunch
12-10-2013, 07:37 PM
Bro, You don't know the half of it. Be glad you don't hear the voices from the inside! NomSayin?

I can only imagine....not a pretty sight.

Rusty Jones
12-10-2013, 07:39 PM
Again, ever hear the story about the emperor with no clothes? You liberals would be great for comic relief, if it weren't for the fact that the liberals are destroying our society from within, with the repeal of DADT, not defending DOMA, benefits for illegal immigrants, the list goes on and on. I guess you and someone like Mandela would get along great, with your ultruistic views of society, so you go right ahead and continue to worship at the altar of Mandela. Me, those rose-colored glasses are off and in the trash...

AND you just admitted that you're homophobe. Tsk, tsk.

Max Power
12-10-2013, 07:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWI_kHUbeW0

Bunch
12-10-2013, 07:44 PM
AND you just admitted that you're homophobe. Tsk, tsk.

Only that???!! There's much more in there....

Rusty Jones
12-10-2013, 07:47 PM
Only that???!!

In and of itself, it wouldn't be relevant to this thread... but in the bigger picture, it shows that he's full of anger and hate. That's a shitty life to live.

Rainmaker
12-10-2013, 08:24 PM
So being conservative is all about negativity and combativeness, and calling it "truth." No surprise here.

When the personification of reason asked: "what is truth"? The personification of truth didn't answer him. American media has to sew the narrative that Mandella was some MLK figure. I guess he was just in Jail for no reason.

UncaRastus
12-10-2013, 08:49 PM
This thread started off being a place to pay tribute to Mandela. It has become a place for others to get in each others faces. This is not what this thread was started for.