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technomage1
11-21-2013, 06:09 AM
Does anyone know how to file an official complaint against a DoD GS civilian? One was so unprofessional to me today I nearly put his teeth down his throat. We're in a class together and he's spent the week arguing with the instructors, making fun of other students, and talking throughout the lectures. Today was my turn, he made a wisecrack about me in front of the whole class and the only thing that stopped me was a very pregnant O-4 putting her hand on my arm as I started to get up. It's probably fortunate she was a woman and pregnant since a man doing the same wouldn't have stopped me.

Luckily this was right before lunch so I had time to cool down before I saw his mug again. The contractor instructor did nothing - what could he do?

Anyway, he can't represent the DoD like this. We have contractors and regular civilians in this class. He's a disgrace to the government and we need to start a paper trail on him to try to get him fired. Out of a cannon would be nice. I know its next to impossible to fire these guys but maybe it will cost him a pay raise or bonus or something.

I've tried my friend google and all I can find is ways for civilians to complain, to to file a complaint against them.

Absinthe Anecdote
11-21-2013, 07:05 AM
Does anyone know how to file an official complaint against a DoD GS civilian? One was so unprofessional to me today I nearly put his teeth down his throat. We're in a class together and he's spent the week arguing with the instructors, making fun of other students, and talking throughout the lectures. Today was my turn, he made a wisecrack about me in front of the whole class and the only thing that stopped me was a very pregnant O-4 putting her hand on my arm as I started to get up. It's probably fortunate she was a woman and pregnant since a man doing the same wouldn't have stopped me.

Luckily this was right before lunch so I had time to cool down before I saw his mug again. The contractor instructor did nothing - what could he do?

Anyway, he can't represent the DoD like this. We have contractors and regular civilians in this class. He's a disgrace to the government and we need to start a paper trail on him to try to get him fired. Out of a cannon would be nice. I know its next to impossible to fire these guys but maybe it will cost him a pay raise or bonus or something.

I've tried my friend google and all I can find is ways for civilians to complain, to to file a complaint against them.

The organization that has ownership of the class would be the logical place to complain about his behavior in class.

Give us a few more details about what he said.

technomage1
11-21-2013, 07:20 AM
It's not just the wisecrack about me that's the problem. It's the behavior over the entire course, which I've described. Arguing for long periods of time with the instructor over the material presented (which is federally developed, not instructor developed. The instructor didn't make the regs he's teaching). Talking throughout the class over the lecturer and other students. Making fun if other students inputs, mannerisms, speech, or lack of experience. It was pretty obvious from the beginning he didn't want to be there and has proceeded to make everyone miserable as a result. A mature 50 something man is acting like a 12 year old.

Mine was an input he decided to make fun of. I shared a very brief story pertaining to the lecture and he make a crack about testing other students patience in class with personal stories. Yes, guy who spent 40 minutes combined each day arguing points over and over made a crack about a 30 second anecdote. And yes, it was directed squarely at me. Straw + camel = broken back.

He did tip his chair over and fall on his ass right after lunch so that was a bonus. Unfortunately he missed striking his head.

I don't want to get the instructor in the soup because he's not a professional instructor, he's a professional instructing, if that makes any sense. He shouldn't have to put up with this behavior from a DoD employee.

If he was military I'd go to his chain of command, I suppose that's the logical step here too.

Absinthe Anecdote
11-21-2013, 07:43 AM
Sadly, those types of personalities are not uncommon in classrooms. I don't think you have to worry about getting the instructor in trouble.

From what you've described, the instructor is probably tired of this guy too. I'm guessing you've tried getting the instructor to clamp down on this guy?

technomage1
11-21-2013, 08:09 AM
Not uncommon in classrooms in middle school, maybe. The instructor has to ask him to quiet down at least twice a day.

Were past the handling it in the classroom stage and this point. There needs to be consequences for his actions. If I'd have pushed the officer aside and decked him - and I was provoked, mind - there would be consequences for that. As there should be.

Gonzo432
11-21-2013, 09:46 AM
Technomage1: Contact the civilian personnel/HR function with the individual's organization. There will be a specific term (report of contact in the VA) for going this route. This in combination with an e-mail the this guy's bosses boss would be "the pen is mightier than the sword (or fist)" route.

technomage1
11-21-2013, 10:17 AM
Gonzo432 Thank you, I'll try that. This happened hours ago and I still just want to twist the guys head from his neck. :angryfire: :cussing:

It would probably be a better idea to contact HR instead.

His bosses boss would likely be his CO, so I'm not sure if I should do that. I don't mind approaching mine on issues but it's usually considered out of line to approach another commander outside of your organization without going to your commander first. To complicate matters he's another service's employee.

I didn't ask for this fight...:dunno: but I can't let behavior like this slide.

Juggs
11-21-2013, 12:04 PM
Does anyone know how to file an official complaint against a DoD GS civilian? One was so unprofessional to me today I nearly put his teeth down his throat. We're in a class together and he's spent the week arguing with the instructors, making fun of other students, and talking throughout the lectures. Today was my turn, he made a wisecrack about me in front of the whole class and the only thing that stopped me was a very pregnant O-4 putting her hand on my arm as I started to get up. It's probably fortunate she was a woman and pregnant since a man doing the same wouldn't have stopped me.

Luckily this was right before lunch so I had time to cool down before I saw his mug again. The contractor instructor did nothing - what could he do?

Anyway, he can't represent the DoD like this. We have contractors and regular civilians in this class. He's a disgrace to the government and we need to start a paper trail on him to try to get him fired. Out of a cannon would be nice. I know its next to impossible to fire these guys but maybe it will cost him a pay raise or bonus or something.

I've tried my friend google and all I can find is ways for civilians to complain, to to file a complaint against them.

Ahh yes, the power of a pregnant woman. It's crazy what they can pull off.

TJMAC77SP
11-21-2013, 12:31 PM
Speak to others in the class to see if they will add their input to the complaint. It will add weight and impartiality. I would suggest forwarding the complaint to the tool's unit of assignment with a copy to both the Civilian Personnel Office and your own unit. Follow up with the Civilian Personnel Office. If you think they are sandbagging the process, file an IG complaint.

71Fish
11-21-2013, 12:46 PM
"Excuse me for talking while you're interupting". That always makes people pause.

My guess would be that since it's a classroom environment, you (and other students) would need to complain through the org giving the class. If it were work related then you would use his chain of command.
Getting into a fight with an asshole in class would only make things worse for you.
Sticks and stones.

AFcynic
11-21-2013, 01:53 PM
Why wouldn't you just tell homeboy he's acting like a jerk? I'm sure if you and your classmates told him he's disruptive to the learning environment, he might take a hint. He may not know that he's a tool. Lowest level possible type thing.

USMC0341
11-21-2013, 02:06 PM
Gonzo432 Thank you, I'll try that. This happened hours ago and I still just want to twist the guys head from his neck. :angryfire: :cussing:

It would probably be a better idea to contact HR instead.

His bosses boss would likely be his CO, so I'm not sure if I should do that. I don't mind approaching mine on issues but it's usually considered out of line to approach another commander outside of your organization without going to your commander first. To complicate matters he's another service's employee.

I didn't ask for this fight...:dunno: but I can't let behavior like this slide.

Which Service?

technomage1
11-21-2013, 06:43 PM
Why wouldn't you just tell homeboy he's acting like a jerk? I'm sure if you and your classmates told him he's disruptive to the learning environment, he might take a hint. He may not know that he's a tool. Lowest level possible type thing.

He knows. He thinks its funny. No way making fun of other students in class is ignorance. Were past correcting and onto punishment for behavior now.

technomage1
11-21-2013, 06:44 PM
Which Service?

Navy.

imported_chipotleboy
11-22-2013, 03:15 PM
As before, contact the offender's HR office, but to find out the contact info for the Supervisor. Then dish the dirt on the offender to the Supervisor. Odds are, the Supervisor doesn't like the offender and is looking for ammo to do something. Find out what he needs from you for documentation. This could: 1) affect his end-of-year rating, 2) affect his bonus (odds are no bonuses anyway with sequestration), 3) start a track file on his misbehavior, or add to current documentation of his misbehavior.

Dealing with civilians requires patience and documentation. People say you can't fire civilians, but you can make them wish they'd been fired, and that leads to resignations.

raustin0017
11-22-2013, 04:02 PM
Navy, AF, Army...it don't matter. It takes a ton of paper work from the Commanding officer to get anyone's attention dealing with civilian employees. All you can do is find out who the supervisor and CC is and let them know how their member represented the unit. Good luck...and thanks for taking a stand.

Chief_KO
11-22-2013, 06:21 PM
The contractor instructor did nothing - what could he do?

The contracted instructor should have contacted the civilians home unit/homestation at first break. Then the homestation could have made the call to send him home or have a talk with him.

technomage1
11-22-2013, 10:25 PM
The end of course test did provide some fun. You need an 80% and above to pass and it's no joke.

This is evil but deserved - the test involved finding references on a computer PDF. One you were done and passed, you were released for the day. Now if you used the regular find function it was hard, but the advanced find made it a snap because you could see bits of text that contain your search terms and all the results at once instead of clicking through each item found. It gives you an overall view, so to speak.

I was the only one in the class that knew about this function and I made sure to share it with the class - while he had stepped out of the room.

I finished pretty quick and left and others were moving along -nearly finished, etc - and he had just finished turning the first page. I kid you not, the guy whose native language was Spanish was three times as far along as he was.

Petty, yes. But satisfying nonetheless.

Gonzo432
11-23-2013, 01:07 AM
The end of course test did provide some fun. You need an 80% and above to pass and it's no joke.

This is evil but deserved - the test involved finding references on a computer PDF. One you were done and passed, you were released for the day. Now if you used the regular find function it was hard, but the advanced find made it a snap because you could see bits of text that contain your search terms and all the results at once instead of clicking through each item found. It gives you an overall view, so to speak.

I was the only one in the class that knew about this function and I made sure to share it with the class - while he had stepped out of the room.

I finished pretty quick and left and others were moving along -nearly finished, etc - and he had just finished turning the first page. I kid you not, the guy whose native language was Spanish was three times as far along as he was.

Petty, yes. But satisfying nonetheless.

What goes around comes around, and it just came around!

imported_AFKILO7
11-23-2013, 01:53 AM
People that act like this peckerhead should be culled from the herd.

technomage1
11-23-2013, 03:28 AM
The contracted instructor should have contacted the civilians home unit/homestation at first break. Then the homestation could have made the call to send him home or have a talk with him.

I think that may have happened, or one of the Navy folks in the class may have said something. They came looking for him on our lunch break. I don't know for sure, though, and I'm still going to pursue this on Monday. I have the HR director for the regions phone number so I'll give them a call and see if I can find the supervisor/commanders info out. Anyone outside of the gate pulling crap like this would be fired in a heartbeat.

I've worked closely with GS civilians for years and found the majority to be professional, competent, and hardworking. Sure, there were some lazy ones, and two incompetent ones, but never have I seen a more unprofessional display than what I saw in that class.

The incompetent ones were actually both black females. The only relevance this has is the bosses in both cases were older white males. Any objective analysis, they should have been fired, but we has to wait it out and suffer until they moved on to darken someone else's door. The second one left right before a performance improvement plan was about to be implemented.