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VCO
11-20-2013, 09:51 AM
Anyone know if the board will see the DVR, or do they only see the evaluation brief?

Chief_KO
11-20-2013, 12:23 PM
Contents of the folder:
1. All EPRs (Performance Reports) for the past ten years. 2. Citations for all decorations. 3. Senior NCO Evaluation Brief. 4. Article 15 - If applicable and determined to be filed by appropriate commander. 5. Record of Courts-martial. 6. AF Form 77, Letter of Evaluation, for breaks in service, EPR appeals, administrative correction, etc.

The eval brief is similar to the DVR and has changed over time. The number of college degrees, deployment history, method of PME are three changes that come to my retired mind. The thing to do is to go onto PRADA and make sure your folder contains all the docs that show up on your DVR (front & back of 10yr's EPRS, medal citations). Too many records are missing a document and could severely impact the board score.

When I made SMSgt, I got an email from the MPF stating that my record was missing an AFAM certificate I received as a SSgt. I had 5 days to present a copy of the citation or my line number would be voided. And I had made it by more than one point.

Keep your own set of records. When I retired I burned everything onto a CD just as a backup.

VCO
11-21-2013, 01:49 AM
Contents of the folder:
1. All EPRs (Performance Reports) for the past ten years. 2. Citations for all decorations. 3. Senior NCO Evaluation Brief. 4. Article 15 - If applicable and determined to be filed by appropriate commander. 5. Record of Courts-martial. 6. AF Form 77, Letter of Evaluation, for breaks in service, EPR appeals, administrative correction, etc.

The eval brief is similar to the DVR and has changed over time. The number of college degrees, deployment history, method of PME are three changes that come to my retired mind. The thing to do is to go onto PRADA and make sure your folder contains all the docs that show up on your DVR (front & back of 10yr's EPRS, medal citations). Too many records are missing a document and could severely impact the board score.

When I made SMSgt, I got an email from the MPF stating that my record was missing an AFAM certificate I received as a SSgt. I had 5 days to present a copy of the citation or my line number would be voided. And I had made it by more than one point.

Keep your own set of records. When I retired I burned everything onto a CD just as a backup.

Thanks, Chief. The reason I ask is, I attended another service's SNCO academy (after my EPR closed but before my PECD), and was hoping the board would see. I'm guessing they won't.

Measure Man
11-21-2013, 05:26 AM
Thanks, Chief. The reason I ask is, I attended another service's SNCO academy (after my EPR closed but before my PECD), and was hoping the board would see. I'm guessing they won't.

If you attended before PECD, they should see it.

DWWSWWD
11-21-2013, 01:28 PM
If you attended before PECD, they should see it. They'll see SNCOA complete, same as they would have before he went in-residence. (because of Course 14) Unless you win an award and it reflects in your EPR, the board will never know if you went in-residence to any SNCOA.

BRUWIN
12-08-2013, 02:57 AM
Anyone know if the board will see the DVR, or do they only see the evaluation brief?

I would answer but it's a test compromise.

WeaponsTSGT
12-08-2013, 04:03 PM
Contents of the folder:
1. All EPRs (Performance Reports) for the past ten years. 2. Citations for all decorations. 3. Senior NCO Evaluation Brief. 4. Article 15 - If applicable and determined to be filed by appropriate commander. 5. Record of Courts-martial. 6. AF Form 77, Letter of Evaluation, for breaks in service, EPR appeals, administrative correction, etc.

The eval brief is similar to the DVR and has changed over time. The number of college degrees, deployment history, method of PME are three changes that come to my retired mind. The thing to do is to go onto PRADA and make sure your folder contains all the docs that show up on your DVR (front & back of 10yr's EPRS, medal citations). Too many records are missing a document and could severely impact the board score.

When I made SMSgt, I got an email from the MPF stating that my record was missing an AFAM certificate I received as a SSgt. I had 5 days to present a copy of the citation or my line number would be voided. And I had made it by more than one point.

Keep your own set of records. When I retired I burned everything onto a CD just as a backup.

Why keep the information in retirement?

Capt Alfredo
12-08-2013, 05:39 PM
Why keep the information in retirement?

How else is he going to be appointed Chief of the Commissary Blue Angels? Conspiring to block aisles since 1948.

raustin0017
12-08-2013, 05:57 PM
Why keep the information in retirement?

When you retire....you will need a strong resume to land a civilian job. I used all the data in EPRs, Decs, Awards, etc.... and sent this info to a company who specializes in military to civilian transition.

Example: If Boeing was looking for a 30-line 1206 I could knock it out of the park and land a top executive position. I spent years learning how to write AF style but it just don't cut it in the civilian sector.

Chief_KO
12-08-2013, 10:29 PM
Why keep the information in retirement?
It's called proof of service. What proof is there that I served at base X during time period Y??? Do you trust the government enough that their records are complete and accurate? With all the complaining on this forum directed at the personnel and finance world I figured it was obvious. Look in the back of any veteran's publication, all the notifications posted by veterans to confirm their service at a certain place and time.

Juggs
12-08-2013, 11:39 PM
I have EPRs, evals, LOEs, award citations, and jump records.

Chief_KO
12-08-2013, 11:52 PM
Travel vouchers are important too, especially for AOR ops. How can you prove you were in a certain country or province? That ol' 1351-2 can be quite handy.
It's all about looking out for #1. Your whole time in uniform you're looking out for the mission, for your Airmen, etc. Once you retire, that's it...the only one truly looking out for you is YOU.

fufu
12-08-2013, 11:57 PM
Travel vouchers are important too, especially for AOR ops. How can you prove you were in a certain country or province? That ol' 1351-2 can be quite handy.
It's all about looking out for #1. Your whole time in uniform you're looking out for the mission, for your Airmen, etc. Once you retire, that's it...the only one truly looking out for you is YOU.

So old school! LOL - DTS voucher now!

DannyJ
05-25-2014, 02:34 AM
So old school! LOL - DTS voucher now!

Wow, reviving a dead one here, but beginning to think of MSgt boards. My first deployment in 08 was done on a 1351-2...

VCO
05-25-2014, 03:27 AM
Wow, reviving a dead one here, but beginning to think of MSgt boards. My first deployment in 08 was done on a 1351-2...
One of the best ways to prepare is to go into PRDA and make sure everything is there.

Chief_KO
05-25-2014, 12:21 PM
One of the best ways to prepare is to go into PRDA and make sure everything is there.

Usually one-third of the board packages are missing something (usually a decoration). It is the member's responsibility to ensure all the documents are present and all the documents are yours. Most of us only focus on the points for the decs, not realizing the citation must be there as well. Happened to me when I was selected for SMSgt, got notified I was missing an AFAM from decades prior. Had 7 days to bring a copy to the MPF.

DannyJ
05-25-2014, 04:26 PM
Usually one-third of the board packages are missing something (usually a decoration). It is the member's responsibility to ensure all the documents are present and all the documents are yours. Most of us only focus on the points for the decs, not realizing the citation must be there as well. Happened to me when I was selected for SMSgt, got notified I was missing an AFAM from decades prior. Had 7 days to bring a copy to the MPF.

I'm pretty good on all the documentation, it just feels as though I'm going in blind. They haven't outright stated that there will or will not be boards for 15E7. I like to be prepared, so I've been taking action to get everything up to date, but without knowing if they're going to be looking at the same things as they do for SMSgt and CMSgt, it's hard to know what needs how much attention. Also, just did some preliminary calculations based off this year's average cutoff and it looks like I'll need 87s to be competitive (cutoff jumped 12 points from 13E7 to 14E7). Yikes. Guess the ability to make everything first time everytime is a thing of the past.

I'm down almost 12 points on TIG and 15 on TIS against the average selectee for my AFSC, which certainly doesn't help. But, I suppose if boards are done, that could work out in my favor.

Big Blue
05-25-2014, 07:51 PM
I'm pretty good on all the documentation, it just feels as though I'm going in blind. They haven't outright stated that there will or will not be boards for 15E7. I like to be prepared, so I've been taking action to get everything up to date, but without knowing if they're going to be looking at the same things as they do for SMSgt and CMSgt, it's hard to know what needs how much attention. Also, just did some preliminary calculations based off this year's average cutoff and it looks like I'll need 87s to be competitive (cutoff jumped 12 points from 13E7 to 14E7). Yikes. Guess the ability to make everything first time everytime is a thing of the past.

I'm down almost 12 points on TIG and 15 on TIS against the average selectee for my AFSC, which certainly doesn't help. But, I suppose if boards are done, that could work out in my favor.

I'm down at SNCOA and Chief Cody just recently came and spoke. He said the Boards are absolutely happening for 15E7. Also, from what I am hearing it will be similar to the current Board process for E8& E9. I would just familiarize myself with those categories and you should be be covered. Good luck!

sandsjames
05-26-2014, 01:58 AM
I'm down at SNCOA and Chief Cody just recently came and spoke. He said the Boards are absolutely happening for 15E7. Also, from what I am hearing it will be similar to the current Board process for E8& E9. I would just familiarize myself with those categories and you should be be covered. Good luck!

What I heard was that they will take the top 60% of scores from PFE/SKT, then those 60% get the board process. Kind of a way to weed out the high TIG/TIS/Low test score guys from the rest.

mikezulu1
05-26-2014, 02:08 AM
hope after they release all the lists from this promotion cycle we hear something. Been hearing rumors for a while now, would be nice to know how the process is going to play out.

DannyJ
05-26-2014, 02:29 AM
What I heard was that they will take the top 60% of scores from PFE/SKT, then those 60% get the board process. Kind of a way to weed out the high TIG/TIS/Low test score guys from the rest.

As much as I'd like to see this happen, somehow I doubt it will.

Smeghead
05-26-2014, 03:12 AM
What I heard was that they will take the top 60% of scores from PFE/SKT, then those 60% get the board process. Kind of a way to weed out the high TIG/TIS/Low test score guys from the rest.

Heard similar from Chief Cody when he visited us last year.

Gonzo432
05-26-2014, 11:19 AM
What I heard was that they will take the top 60% of scores from PFE/SKT, then those 60% get the board process. Kind of a way to weed out the high TIG/TIS/Low test score guys from the rest.
Going by test scores (not including TIS/TIG/Decs/EPRS) would be a huge shift in the promotion process. I've been on both sides of the issue (SSgt first time, TSgt 4th time, MSgt 1st time, SMSgt 6th time). I remember 1st time testing for TSgt missing it by 40 when this brick made it maxing TIS/TIG. I can also see the writing on the wall for some TSgts: "You are retiring as a TSgt."

If I was testing for SMSgt my 6th time and the CMSAF announced if you hadn't made it in 5 tries you were going in the "Retires as MSgt" stack I'd be pissed as hell. I know there are a lot more MSgt positions for TSgts to compete for than SMSgt slots for MSgts so its not quite an apples to apples comparison, but getting promoted is hard enough.

I could see total score used as a cut-off to move to the board stage, test scores only changes the promotion process significantly.

DannyJ
05-26-2014, 03:39 PM
Heard similar from Chief Cody when he visited us last year.

Believe me, I'd love for this to happen and agree it's definitely a step in the right direction. The whole WAPS is a bit odd. We make people test for promotion even if they don't want it, then after long enough (after TIS and TIG points max out), all they essentially need to do is sign their name and color in all C's. Then they end up getting promoted even if they didn't really want it. That upper 60% is a good way to catch those folks with necessarily penalizing them.

Smeghead
05-26-2014, 04:59 PM
I'd like to see the up or out policy go away. Why do we thrust promotion and management positions on people who either don't want them or are not suitable/capable? We need worker bees. What's wrong with a enior airman turning wrenches for 20 years if that's what he's good at and wants to do? Experience counts.

Airborne
05-26-2014, 05:54 PM
I'd like to see the up or out policy go away. Why do we thrust promotion and management positions on people who either don't want them or are not suitable/capable? We need worker bees. What's wrong with a enior airman turning wrenches for 20 years if that's what he's good at and wants to do? Experience counts.

And the way the military is set up vs civilian life you have a 40-45 year old SNCO who gets out and looks for a job in his field only to find out that he has been writing meaningless EPRs and doing burger burns and has detached himself from his trade and is a generation or two behind what the civilian world is doing and he hasnt turned a wrench in ten years. But he feels entitled because he served his country.

Ripcord
05-27-2014, 01:43 AM
Believe me, I'd love for this to happen and agree it's definitely a step in the right direction. The whole WAPS is a bit odd. We make people test for promotion even if they don't want it, then after long enough (after TIS and TIG points max out), all they essentially need to do is sign their name and color in all C's. Then they end up getting promoted even if they didn't really want it. That upper 60% is a good way to catch those folks with necessarily penalizing them.
Word on the street is TIS/TIG points are going away as well to remedy just this problem...

sandsjames
05-27-2014, 11:22 AM
Word on the street is TIS/TIG points are going away as well to remedy just this problem...

Which has it's good and it's bad. It gets rid of those who just don't try but, at the same time, it also gets rid of a lot of experience. Sometimes the experience is much more effective than the smart dude who scores well.

But, as said before, that's what it's been going to. Much easier to micromanage a 10 year MSgt than it is an 18 year MSgt. Especially that 10 year MSgt who has only had a year or two in charge of a shop.

Chief_KO
05-27-2014, 12:08 PM
Last few comments very interesting.
What would be the harm of allowing someone to remain a SrA for 20 years if they were productive and happy? They've chosen not to be promoted to a leadership/management position to continue to be a technician. I cannot see a downside from a unit level...other than the perception (fostered by our current up or out mindset).
At first I did not like the proposal that only the the upper 60% (or whatever) of test scores determining what packages are boarded for MSgt, but I can see where that can be valuable to weed out the TIS/TIG "sign your name get promoted" system that WAPS has evolved into. I would extend that same requirement to the SMSgt & CMSgt boards as well.
I can remember several "well seasoned" SSgts when I enlisted back in the 80's. Other than creating promotion opportunities by forcing "up or out", I'm having a hard time justifying HYT in my mind.
I really wish AF would put out some news on what the changes will be...

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
05-27-2014, 12:27 PM
Last few comments very interesting.
What would be the harm of allowing someone to remain a SrA for 20 years if they were productive and happy?

Makes me wonder just how well an 18/19 year SrA can really follow and comprehend a TO. Well, I guess we don't need to find out.