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View Full Version : What do you think is the real reason we're still in Afghanistan?



jondstewart
11-09-2013, 06:42 PM
Bin Laden has been dead for 2 1/2 years and I thought he was the main reason we were there in the first place. I was there in '09 and Obama said we're out or pulling out in 2012. I think it has to do with poppy production, since the seemingly dirt-poor country produces over 90% of the world's heroin and we're there to protect the trade. We're not "fighting the Taliban", that's a load of mmm hmm!

USAF-Controller
11-09-2013, 08:37 PM
Because the contractors pay the senators so they can get the contracts and make a TON of money in Afghanistan.

CYBERFX1024
11-09-2013, 10:32 PM
I think it is us trying to save face now. Because it's obvious that when we actually pull out of there they will go back to what happened during the 90's (full fledged civil war). But supposedly we will keep "advisors" in place until 2024, at least that's what the deal was.

Slyoldawg
11-10-2013, 12:09 AM
I read an article yesterday that say American forces are destroying everything they're leaving behind and selling the junk to the Afghanistanis. History is repeating itself. Years ago I was a Flight mechanic on C-54s out of Torrejon and America was pulling out of all the bases in North Africa. We flew troops down to those bases with sledge hammers and turned them loose on the barracks, the chow halls, the clubs and stayed until everything on that base was destroyed and smashed. The smaller things like carved coffee tables and other things small enough to be carried was brought back to Spain for use in our clubs and quarters. Guess that saved a ton of money hauling all that stuff up to Europe or back to the USA.

VCO
11-10-2013, 03:24 AM
I read an article yesterday that say American forces are destroying everything they're leaving behind and selling the junk to the Afghanistanis. History is repeating itself. Years ago I was a Flight mechanic on C-54s out of Torrejon and America was pulling out of all the bases in North Africa. We flew troops down to those bases with sledge hammers and turned them loose on the barracks, the chow halls, the clubs and stayed until everything on that base was destroyed and smashed. The smaller things like carved coffee tables and other things small enough to be carried was brought back to Spain for use in our clubs and quarters. Guess that saved a ton of money hauling all that stuff up to Europe or back to the USA.

the Afghans will destroy whatever we leave behind regardless. I saw it first hand. The American taxpayers bought them brand new vehicles and multimillion dollar facilities. Within months, the trucks were all dented and the facilities were in shambles. And that is with us still there providing assistance.

BENDER56
11-10-2013, 04:38 PM
I'm not gonna google it right now, but I think the current plan is for all combat troops to leave Afghanistan by 2014. There's no word on how many "support" troops will remain there.

Slyoldawg
11-10-2013, 06:59 PM
I'm not gonna google it right now, but I think the current plan is for all combat troops to leave Afghanistan by 2014. There's no word on how many "support" troops will remain there.

I've read that the negotiations for a SOF agreement is being negotiated with the politicians there and if Iraq is any indication, we will pull out all our forces if a SOF agreement can not be reached with the Afghanistanis. If a SOF agreement is not reached with them I would not want to be "left behind" when combat troops are removed.

OtisRNeedleman
11-11-2013, 07:30 PM
the Afghans will destroy whatever we leave behind regardless. I saw it first hand. The American taxpayers bought them brand new vehicles and multimillion dollar facilities. Within months, the trucks were all dented and the facilities were in shambles. And that is with us still there providing assistance.

I want all our troops out NOW. I am sick of wasting our time, our resources, and most of all, our people on that medieval hole. We should never have embarked on "nation-building" in Afghanistan. It's said you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but in Afghanistan we were trying to make a sow's ear from pig manure. We should have kept our footprint in that place to a minimum.

In general, don't believe the Afghanis appreciated our being there except for the money and materials we provided. They have, in general, neither the ability nor the inclination to maintain the equipment and facilities we spent so much to provide them. Time to cut our losses. Leave NOW, and the aid stops when the last GI is gone. Furthermore, restrict Afghan immigration to the USA for the next ten years. Keep Karzai and his sycophants out. Only allow those Afghanis who served our forces and who would be in danger when US troops leave into the country.

And when we leave it will be like taking one's hand out of a jar of water. The ripples will remain briefly but it will soon be as if we'd never been there in the first place.

I have supported every conflict the US has been in. But for the first time in my nearly sixty years on this Earth I advocate just leaving.

Otis

Airborne
11-11-2013, 08:54 PM
Bin Laden has been dead for 2 1/2 years and I thought he was the main reason we were there in the first place. I was there in '09 and Obama said we're out or pulling out in 2012. I think it has to do with poppy production, since the seemingly dirt-poor country produces over 90% of the world's heroin and we're there to protect the trade. We're not "fighting the Taliban", that's a load of mmm hmm!

Probably just a cooincidence, but the use of oxycontin increased exponentially.

Gonzo432
11-11-2013, 08:58 PM
Probably just a cooincidence, but the use of oxycontin increased exponentially.

That would be a coincidence since Oxycodone is an opioid, not an opiate like morphine.

Greg
11-11-2013, 10:12 PM
That would be a coincidence since Oxycodone is an opioid, not an opiate like morphine.

The youngsters are raiding their parents medicine cabinet, and getting hooked on Oxy, Perc's, etc. When the kids supply of pills are cut off -parents realizing the drugs are missing- the kids turn to cheap, street grade heroin.

Gonzo432
11-11-2013, 10:14 PM
The youngsters are raiding their parents medicine cabinet, and getting hooked on Oxy, Perc's, etc. When the kids supply of pills are cut off -parents realizing the drugs are missing- the kids turn to cheap, street grade heroin.

Your post is sad but true, Greg.

Airborne
11-12-2013, 01:48 AM
That would be a coincidence since Oxycodone is an opioid, not an opiate like morphine.

Still derived from poppy though, which would be cheaper to get from Afghanistan which we are occupying instead of the golden triangle.

Chief_KO
11-12-2013, 02:23 AM
Mr Obama is timing our withdrawal from Afghanistan so he can receive his second Nobel Peace Prize in his last year of office or the first year after.

FLAPS, USAF (ret)
11-12-2013, 03:56 AM
How safe does anyone think our 'advisors' will be after we pull out our combat troops?

Slyoldawg
11-12-2013, 06:20 AM
How safe does anyone think our 'advisors' will be after we pull out our combat troops?

See my earlier post about this same thing.

BOSS302
11-12-2013, 03:32 PM
Afghanistan also sits on a treasure-trove of "rare earth" minerals and lithium.

20+Years
11-12-2013, 03:45 PM
I really can't say why we are stuck in that sinkhole. When Obama initially ran he said if elected he would immediately pull us out of Iraq, Afghanistan and close Gitmo. Iraq took too long, and of course, only "combat troops" left. Afghanistan and Gitmo have taken even longer. That was under a Democratic Congress, so approval/cooperation should have been a given.

I would love to know the truth behind it. We never will. Some people think they know, but no one knows what Obama arranged with who behind closed doors. Oh to be a fly on the wall...

Rainmaker
11-12-2013, 09:33 PM
Pipelinestan.

efmbman
11-13-2013, 01:09 PM
From the day US Forces first entered Afghanistan there was not an exit strategy. No one ever decided what would constitute victory and thus would trigger withdraw. Lacking a political or military goal is always leaves a campaign open-ended. Since there is no decision on what constitutes victory, there is nothing for which anyone can be accountable. This should sound familiar... it has happened before.

BENDER56
11-13-2013, 01:31 PM
Bin Laden has been dead for 2 1/2 years and I thought he was the main reason we were there in the first place. I was there in '09 and Obama said we're out or pulling out in 2012. I think it has to do with poppy production, since the seemingly dirt-poor country produces over 90% of the world's heroin and we're there to protect the trade. We're not "fighting the Taliban", that's a load of mmm hmm!

First off, I agree we should get the hell out of there.

But I'm not sure about what you're saying. You say we want to "... protect the trade." As in, "We want to ensure Afghanistan can grow and export lots of opium."? Or as in, "We want to ensure we protect the world from opium."?

If it's the former, we don't need to be there because the Afghanis were doing just fine supplying opium to the world without our help and "protection" for centuries.

If it's the latter, we need to leave because we aren't doing very well at it, seeing as how they just produced a record-high crop this year.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/13/21425925-afghanistan-opium-production-hits-record-despite-billions-spent-to-combat-trade?lite

CYBERFX1024
11-13-2013, 02:57 PM
First off, I agree we should get the hell out of there.

But I'm not sure about what you're saying. You say we want to "... protect the trade." As in, "We want to ensure Afghanistan can grow and export lots of opium."? Or as in, "We want to ensure we protect the world from opium."?

If it's the former, we don't need to be there because the Afghanis were doing just fine supplying opium to the world without our help and "protection" for centuries.

If it's the latter, we need to leave because we aren't doing very well at it, seeing as how they just produced a record-high crop this year.

http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/13/21425925-afghanistan-opium-production-hits-record-despite-billions-spent-to-combat-trade?lite

Well at first when we went in and for a few years after that our goal was to eradicate the production of opium. But now that we "learned from our ways" we let the farmers grow opium because if we burned it up, we would just force them in to the Taliban. Damned if we do and damned if we don't

BENDER56
11-13-2013, 07:19 PM
Well at first when we went in and for a few years after that our goal was to eradicate the production of opium. But now that we "learned from our ways" we let the farmers grow opium because if we burned it up, we would just force them in to the Taliban. Damned if we do and damned if we don't

Not really. There's nothing damning to us if we just bug out and let them do their thing like they were doing before we came along.

We shooed al Qaida out of there and we got bin Laden, so we're done. Time to roll up the cords and go get a beer.

Sergeant eNYgma
11-20-2013, 07:30 PM
I want all our troops out NOW. I am sick of wasting our time, our resources, and most of all, our people on that medieval hole. We should never have embarked on "nation-building" in Afghanistan. It's said you can't make a silk purse out of a sow's ear, but in Afghanistan we were trying to make a sow's ear from pig manure. We should have kept our footprint in that place to a minimum.

In general, don't believe the Afghanis appreciated our being there except for the money and materials we provided. They have, in general, neither the ability nor the inclination to maintain the equipment and facilities we spent so much to provide them. Time to cut our losses. Leave NOW, and the aid stops when the last GI is gone. Furthermore, restrict Afghan immigration to the USA for the next ten years. Keep Karzai and his sycophants out. Only allow those Afghanis who served our forces and who would be in danger when US troops leave into the country.

And when we leave it will be like taking one's hand out of a jar of water. The ripples will remain briefly but it will soon be as if we'd never been there in the first place.

I have supported every conflict the US has been in. But for the first time in my nearly sixty years on this Earth I advocate just leaving.

Otis

This....O God this.......

efmbman
11-20-2013, 10:30 PM
Today's development...

U.S., Afghanistan reach security pact through '2024 and beyond'

Link to story: http://www.cnn.com/2013/11/20/world/asia/us-afghanistan-security-agreement/index.html?hpt=hp_t2

Favorite quote:
Karzai did not ask the United States to formally apologize for past military operations that resulted in civilian casualties, according to Kerry, who added "the word apology" didn't come up in their discussions about the security agreement that would allow U.S. troops to remain in Afghanistan after 2014.

imported_KnuckleDragger
11-21-2013, 12:13 AM
First and foremost, we are there to keep pressure on Iran.

Not conspiracy theories.

Slyoldawg
11-21-2013, 04:50 AM
I wonder if we got protection of the troops under a SOF agreement, that we didn't get in Iraq. That was the reason they claim why the administration pulled most everyone out of that one. I wouldn't doubt that this regime would keep our troops in Afghanistan without that protection. I haven't seen any backbone in our State Department in a long time.

crwchf16
11-21-2013, 08:39 AM
We shouldn't even be thinking of leaving until we get all our people back.
http://supportbowe.org/

crwchf16
11-21-2013, 10:38 AM
I posted this before but for some reason it seems to have vanished. Unless something has dramatically changed, we still have an Army Sgt still held as a POW by the Taliban. Until he is back with us safe, we shouldn't even be considering leaving.

Juggs
11-21-2013, 01:00 PM
I posted this before but for some reason it seems to have vanished. Unless something has dramatically changed, we still have an Army Sgt still held as a POW by the Taliban. Until he is back with us safe, we shouldn't even be considering leaving.

Read up on that sgt. He posted lots about be against the war and wanting to leave. Perhaps he isn't a POW. I wouldn't leave a guy behind unless he left in the first place.

akruse
11-21-2013, 01:46 PM
Read up on that sgt. He posted lots about be against the war and wanting to leave. Perhaps he isn't a POW. I wouldn't leave a guy behind unless he left in the first place.

Regardless of how or why he is where he is, he is still an American soldier and needs to be brought home.

Juggs
11-21-2013, 01:48 PM
IF he deserted you feel we should risk American lives to bring home somebody that turned their backs on his guys?

akruse
11-21-2013, 02:17 PM
IF he deserted you feel we should risk American lives to bring home somebody that turned their backs on his guys?

Do you know he deserted? Even if he did, he's an American soldier who at the very least should be returned home to face justice and remove the bargaining chip the Taliban hold.

BOSS302
11-21-2013, 03:14 PM
Do you know he deserted? Even if he did, he's an American soldier who at the very least should be returned home to face justice and remove the bargaining chip the Taliban hold.

By that rationale, the FBI should set-up a mobile command post complimented by air assets and several heavily-armed tactical response teams in the Goldsboro, NC, area until every single person who has ever shoplifted from the local mall is brought to justice.

imported_WILDJOKER5
11-21-2013, 03:20 PM
Because the contractors pay the senators so they can get the contracts and make a TON of money in Afghanistan.

Only senators?

akruse
11-21-2013, 03:56 PM
By that rationale, the FBI should set-up a mobile command post complimented by air assets and several heavily-armed tactical response teams in the Goldsboro, NC, area until every single person who has ever shoplifted from the local mall is brought to justice.

I'm not tracking

BOSS302
11-21-2013, 04:01 PM
I'm not tracking

Right.

akruse
11-21-2013, 04:10 PM
Right.

Ummm....I'm not.

I guess you're comparing shoplifters in the states to a member of the us army in the hands of our current enemy. Yeah that checks.....

Juggs
11-21-2013, 05:31 PM
Do you know he deserted? Even if he did, he's an American soldier who at the very least should be returned home to face justice and remove the bargaining chip the Taliban hold.

I don't know if he did. It appears to me as if he did. However, it's 4th and 5th hand information so I don't know. My personal opinion is if he did, you made the bed now sleep in it.

I he didn't, well that's shitty and we should keep looking. Even with small tactical teams not massive coalitions forces. Oh and an infidel isn't a bargaining chip. We are more along the lines of trash to them. They will appear to bargain then cut his head of on AJ.

akruse
11-21-2013, 07:33 PM
[QUOTE=Juggs;662057]I don't know if he did. It appears to me as if he did. However, it's 4th and 5th hand information so I don't know. My personal opinion is if he did, you made the bed now sleep in it.

I he didn't, well that's shitty and we should keep looking. Even with small tactical teams not massive coalitions forces. Oh and an infidel isn't a bargaining chip. We are more along the lines of trash to them. They will appear to bargain then cut his head of on AJ.[/QUOTE

You don't think hes a bargaining chip for them? You're high. If he wasn't, he'd be dead by now. He has moved hands multiple times to more "responsible" handlers.

I agree that he more than likely walked off post of his own will and stupidity but don't think he went willingly with our Taliban friends. I do believe we should do everything possible to get one of our own back. Sets a dangerous precdent if we don't.

CYBERFX1024
11-21-2013, 09:12 PM
[/QUOTE]
You don't think hes a bargaining chip for them? You're high. If he wasn't, he'd be dead by now. He has moved hands multiple times to more "responsible" handlers.
I agree that he more than likely walked off post of his own will and stupidity but don't think he went willingly with our Taliban friends. I do believe we should do everything possible to get one of our own back. Sets a dangerous precdent if we don't.[/QUOTE]

Well it's been accounted more than once that he did walk off the base in the middle of the night, while leaving all his gear there. I believe that we should just leave him be, he wanted to be there so let him be there. By now he is probably some brain washed jihadist anyway and wanting to die for allah.

BOSS302
11-21-2013, 09:36 PM
Ummm....I'm not.

I guess you're comparing shoplifters in the states to a member of the us army in the hands of our current enemy. Yeah that checks.....

So you believe that the US should commit vast amounts of manpower and materiel due to an Army guy who is missing under very questionable circumstances. Yeah, that checks. Not.

akruse
11-21-2013, 09:37 PM
You don't think hes a bargaining chip for them? You're high. If he wasn't, he'd be dead by now. He has moved hands multiple times to more "responsible" handlers.
I agree that he more than likely walked off post of his own will and stupidity but don't think he went willingly with our Taliban friends. I do believe we should do everything possible to get one of our own back. Sets a dangerous precdent if we don't.[/QUOTE]

Well it's been accounted more than once that he did walk off the base in the middle of the night, while leaving all his gear there. I believe that we should just leave him be, he wanted to be there so let him be there. By now he is probably some brain washed jihadist anyway and wanting to die for allah.[/QUOTE]

We're definitely going to have to agree to disagree on this one. Luckily the US military seems to be on the lets get him home side from what I've seen. Who knows what will happen though.

akruse
11-21-2013, 09:40 PM
So you believe that the US should commit vast amounts of manpower and materiel due to an Army guy who is missing under very questionable circumstances. Yeah, that checks. Not.

So where do you draw the line on who we get back and who we don't? Thats an incredible attitude to have towards a fellow military member who's current status is listed as captured by the enemy.

CYBERFX1024
11-21-2013, 09:43 PM
So where do you draw the line on who we get back and who we don't? Thats an incredible attitude to have towards a fellow military member who's current status is listed as captured by the enemy.

I am ALL for getting back our POW's but he VOLUNTARILY walked off base. If he didn't want to get captured he shouldn't have walked off base. I don't see wasting a huge amount of resources and manpower in getting him back.

BOSS302
11-21-2013, 09:44 PM
So where do you draw the line on who we get back and who we don't? Thats an incredible attitude to have towards a fellow military member who's current status is listed as captured by the enemy.

Sorry. Your emotional argument will lose to rationality. You're not swaying me.

Absinthe Anecdote
11-22-2013, 12:23 AM
I am ALL for getting back our POW's but he VOLUNTARILY walked off base. If he didn't want to get captured he shouldn't have walked off base. I don't see wasting a huge amount of resources and manpower in getting him back.

Bergdahl's capture is unusual.

I think he was lured off base to go drinking, but there are so many different versions of that story floating around that it's had to tell what happened.

I do think that he made an enormous mistake, but we should just write him off?

CYBERFX1024
11-22-2013, 01:22 AM
Bergdahl's capture is unusual.
I think he was lured off base to go drinking, but there are so many different versions of that story floating around that it's had to tell what happened.
I do think that he made an enormous mistake, but we should just write him off?

First Off. How the hell would he be lured off base? Plus there have been reports saying before he deployed that "Bowe said something that would stick with Fry months later, long after they arrived in Afghanistan. "Before we deployed, when we were on Rear D, him and I were talking about what it would be like," Fry recalls. Bowe looked at his friend and made no bones about his plans. "If this deployment is lame," Bowe said, "I'm just going to walk off into the mountains of Pakistan."

Also here is another example of how he planned to leave base. "In the early-morning hours of June 30th, according to soldiers in the unit, Bowe approached his team leader not long after he got off guard duty and asked his superior a simple question: If I were to leave the base, would it cause problems if I took my sensitive equipment?
Yes, his team leader responded – if you took your rifle and night-vision goggles, that would cause problems.
Bowe returned to his barracks, a roughly built bunker of plywood and sandbags. He gathered up water, a knife, his digital camera and his diary. Then he slipped off the outpost".


I do believe that we should write him off. He walked off and deserted, so fu*k him

Here is the source: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/americas-last-prisoner-of-war-20120607?page=5

Absinthe Anecdote
11-22-2013, 01:33 AM
First Off. How the hell would he be lured off base? Plus there have been reports saying before he deployed that "Bowe said something that would stick with Fry months later, long after they arrived in Afghanistan. "Before we deployed, when we were on Rear D, him and I were talking about what it would be like," Fry recalls. Bowe looked at his friend and made no bones about his plans. "If this deployment is lame," Bowe said, "I'm just going to walk off into the mountains of Pakistan."

Also here is another example of how he planned to leave base. "In the early-morning hours of June 30th, according to soldiers in the unit, Bowe approached his team leader not long after he got off guard duty and asked his superior a simple question: If I were to leave the base, would it cause problems if I took my sensitive equipment?
Yes, his team leader responded – if you took your rifle and night-vision goggles, that would cause problems.
Bowe returned to his barracks, a roughly built bunker of plywood and sandbags. He gathered up water, a knife, his digital camera and his diary. Then he slipped off the outpost".


I do believe that we should write him off. He walked off and deserted, so fu*k him

Here is the source: http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/americas-last-prisoner-of-war-20120607?page=5

I heard a story from the rumor mill that one of the translators lured him off with promises to take him to a brothel.

I have no idea if there is any truth to that.

Juggs
11-22-2013, 01:52 AM
He is getting what he deserved if he walked off. Why risk the lives our troops to go find a guy that doesn't want to be here anyways. Maybe he'll get what all jihadists want. 72 virgins.

CYBERFX1024
11-22-2013, 02:47 AM
He is getting what he deserved if he walked off. Why risk the lives our troops to go find a guy that doesn't want to be here anyways. Maybe he'll get what all jihadists want. 72 virgins.

He probably already got his 72 Virgins. 72 Virgin guys wanting some butt.

Juggs
11-22-2013, 02:48 AM
He probably already got his 72 Virgins. 72 Virgin guys wanting some butt.

Now that's funny. What was it? Man love Thursday and jihad Friday?

crwchf16
11-23-2013, 01:38 PM
I don't know if this guy deserted or not and from the sound of things, neither does anyone else here. Everything at this point is speculation until an official announcement is made stating this guy deserted. Until then he is listed as missing and held POW so for his family's sake we need to stay put until we find him. If it was one of our family members wouldn't we be justified in demanding the same thing?

CYBERFX1024
11-23-2013, 06:33 PM
Now that's funny. What was it? Man love Thursday and jihad Friday?

Yep it was Man Love Thursday....

Juggs
11-23-2013, 07:01 PM
I don't know if this guy deserted or not and from the sound of things, neither does anyone else here. Everything at this point is speculation until an official announcement is made stating this guy deserted. Until then he is listed as missing and held POW so for his family's sake we need to stay put until we find him. If it was one of our family members wouldn't we be justified in demanding the same thing?


The family is always justified in demanding. It's a matter of whether we are justified in doing so. Who knows? I sure as hell don't.